Scalable Call Center Sales

How does attending conferences help you scale your business? What value do personal meetings bring in relationships and conversations?

Going to conferences isn’t just about new business opportunities; it’s also about maintaining relationships. It has also been proven that conferences organized by professionals in a particular industry have more value and influence than conferences organized by persons who merely organize events.

In this episode, my guest is Michael Ferree, CEO and Founder of Lead Generation World, and Contact.io. We talked about some of the lessons from sales, and marketing conferences.

Learn more about performance leads, conferences, and following your passion.

Find out if your Sales Operation in Scalable

Buy Selling With Authentic Persuasion: Transform from Order Taker to Quota Breaker

Get help with your sales team

Connect with Jason on LinkedIn

Or go to Jason’s HUB – www.JasonCutter.com

Connect with Michael on Linkedin

Michael’s Bio
Founder of Lead Generation World the event that helps companies better navigate the lead generation ecosystem.

Michael’s Links
www.LeadGenerationWorld.com

When it comes to overall compliance, where do businesses have the most trouble? What is the most effective way of managing your compliance program?

In this episode, Arvell Craig from Contact Center Compliance and I talk about something very important in building a scalable call center, which is compliance.

We also talked about his experiences in helping businesses through the realm of compliance and regulatory concerns.

Also learn more about maximizing opportunities for growth, sales, and business.

Find out if your Sales Operation in Scalable

Buy Selling With Authentic Persuasion: Transform from Order Taker to Quota Breaker

Get help with your sales team

Connect with Jason on LinkedIn

Or go to Jason’s HUB – www.JasonCutter.com

Connect with Arvell on Linkedin

Arvell’s Bio
Arvell Craig is the Director of Compliance Services of the Consulting Division at Contact Center Compliance. With over 20 years of marketing, consulting and business expertise, he helps guide businesses on compliance, risk, and regulatory concerns, while maximizing opportunities for growth.

Arvell’s Links
dnc.com
dnc.com/events
linkedin.com/in/arvell

What do you understand about having a scalable system? How do you exactly accomplish this?

There is no such thing as a one-to-one ratio or a predetermined number of inputs and outputs when it comes to scaling. It occurs when you create a system or a process that can scale and grow nearly exponentially when inputs are added.

In this solo episode, I talk about building a scalable recruiting system for your sales operation. I also discussed some tips that I see are useful to be able to achieve this.

Learn more especially about scaling your recruiting, sales, operations, and revenue process.

Find out if your Sales Operation in Scalable

Buy Selling With Authentic Persuasion: Transform from Order Taker to Quota Breaker

Get help with your sales team

Connect with Jason on LinkedIn

Or go to Jason’s HUB – www.JasonCutter.com

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What is the line between marketing and sales? How can you assist your team in gaining a better understanding of their roles and be more effective?

There isn’t a single occasion these days where a prospect calls in and becomes a client. There will be some follow-ups required, and the sales team may fail to do so because it is far easier to wait for new inbound calls than to deal with follow-ups.

In this Solo Episode, I talk about the line between marketing and sales and understanding the role of each process.

Learn more about marketing vs. sales, breaking down silos, and improving your operations.

Find out if your Sales Operation in Scalable

Buy Selling With Authentic Persuasion: Transform from Order Taker to Quota Breaker

Get help with your sales team

Connect with Jason on LinkedIn

Or go to Jason’s HUB – www.JasonCutter.com

What are some of the parts of Call Center operations that have changed through time? What strategies do you use to make your agents stand out?

In the world of telesales, one thing that hasn’t changed is how agents sound – if they are engaged and attentive, clients will buy. People are becoming increasingly prepared, which requires agents to become even more prepared as well.

In this episode, Rob Bayer from Anomaly Squared and I, talk about his experiences as the President of the company, and especially on the operations side.

Learn more about systems, processes, technology, analytics, and win in scaling your call center operations.

Find out if your Sales Operation in Scalable

Buy Selling With Authentic Persuasion: Transform from Order Taker to Quota Breaker

Get help with your sales team

Connect with Jason on LinkedIn

Or go to Jason’s HUB – www.JasonCutter.com

Connect with Rob on Linkedin

Rob’s Bio
With over 25 years of Contact Center Experience, Rob currently leads A2s Operations with an emphasis on executive leadership, business development, and corporate strategy.

An extreme passion for numbers and working together with internal operations teams including Ops, IT, Business Development, and Finance.

 In this special episode, you will be listening to my episode in the Contact Center Gurus Podcast with Jessica Voss and Rob Enslow where we talked about:

• Why do your potential customers still want to talk to a salesperson (even though its “dangerous”)

• Priorities for ensuring your team fundamentally succeeds 

• When to start thinking about adding technology to scale your sales operation

Learn more about these topics and scale up your sales career!

Find out if your Sales Operation in Scalable

Buy Selling With Authentic Persuasion: Transform from Order Taker to Quota Breaker

Get help with your sales team

Connect with Jason on LinkedIn

Or go to Jason’s HUB – www.JasonCutter.com

In this special episode, you will be listening to my episode in the Saleslife Podcast with Marcos Serna and Sunil Kumar where we talked about:

• The A to Z of sales (prospecting, negotiation, and closing)
• Jason’s unique approach is to be a “Sales Success Architect”
• Bringing your true authentic self the Sales process
• Making your buyer the Hero in your sales process

Learn more about these topics and scale up your sales career!

Find out if your Sales Operation in Scalable

Buy Selling With Authentic Persuasion: Transform from Order Taker to Quota Breaker

Get help with your sales team

Connect with Jason on LinkedIn

Or go to Jason’s HUB – www.JasonCutter.com

Is your organization cultivating the right culture? What factors contribute to a successful sales operation?

Whether you’re hiring internally or externally, the most critical thing in any organization is to hire the right people. As sales is a difficult mental task, you must ensure that your team is composed of people who have the right traits and capacities.

In this episode, Michael Aronowitz from Teleperformance and I, talk about some of the challenges and struggles that he’s seeing with his role as the Executive VP of Digital Sales of the company. Michael also shares his ideas and thoughts to be able to be on top with your sales team.

Learn more about the fundamentals of successful sales operations, and winning together as a team.

Find out if your Sales Operation in Scalable

Buy Selling With Authentic Persuasion: Transform from Order Taker to Quota Breaker

Get help with your sales team

Connect with Jason on LinkedIn

Or go to Jason’s HUB – www.JasonCutter.com

Connect with Michael on LinkedIn.

Michael‘s Bio
Michael oversees all of Teleperformance’s Global sales lines of business working with some of the world’s best brands along with many new business disruptors and unicorns’ companies. He has helped many of them lower their cost per acquisition, increase revenue per transaction and extend the lifetime value of each customer.

Michael’s Links
https://teleperformance.com/en-us/services/sales
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-aronowitz/

Jason: Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode. Scalable call center sales podcast. I am super excited. My special guest today is Michael Aronowitz from Teleperformance and he serves as the executive vice president of digital sales, meaning he’s overseeing their global sales line of business, working with some of the world’s best.

[00:00:22] Brands along with many new business disruptors and unicorn companies and so many things that they serve via Teleperformance. Um, he has done so much things. We’re going to talk about a lot of these initiatives he’s put in place what he, what he’s seen for clients at work, what doesn’t work for companies that are struggling in the industry pre pandemic right now, during this pandemic and where things are going, Michael, welcome to the scalable call center sales plan.

[00:00:52]

Michael: Jason, thanks for having me looking forward to our conversation today.

[00:00:56]

Jason: So one of the things, and I thought I would start here, cause this puts things into perspective for people. If they’re familiar with Teleperformance, they know that it’s a large organization. There’s a lot of people. When I have people come on the show, they fill out a form, they supply some information that becomes the framework of our conversation.

[00:01:14] One of those questions is how big is your sales team, depending on, you know, who’s coming on the podcast. And, you know, since this is a sales call center podcast, that’s a reasonable question. Kind of get a framework for that. You officially have the most people under you as a sales leader in any organization, just for the audience knows how many people.

[00:01:36] Are under your branch in Teleperformance.

[00:01:41]

Michael: So when it comes to the sales line of business that we have, uh, 20,000 plus agents worldwide taking inbound, making outbound calls, doing, you know, every type of sales line of business, you can think of whether that’s B2B B to C and just, I can go on and on, you know, chat non-voice.

[00:01:59] So, um, you know, we have a large range of clients and we consider our. You know, the leader in customer acquisition.

[00:02:08]

Jason: I love it. So 20,000 people under the sales umbrella of what the company is running and what you’re in charge of, uh, that’s definitely, that’s definitely a new one. And so that obviously comes with the challenges.

[00:02:22] It comes with some successes, it comes with, you know, the, the services that you’re providing for your clients. Right now in what you’re seeing, we’re talking about late 20, 21, what are some of the biggest challenges your seeing that your clients sales teams are struggling with that you’re then helping out with where they’re like, okay, we’re struggling with this and we just need some help.

[00:02:49]

Michael: I mean, let’s, let’s throw it out there that the toughest thing right now is. You know, historically, um, you know, call centers have been a great place and a great opportunity for people to start their career. You know, it’s, it’s very common to meet someone at some point in their life. Fortunately, You know, it’s a great job.

[00:03:07] It’s a great opportunity. Um, it’s, it can make a great living, but just like every other business that you come across in, in the U S and other parts of the world, there’s some hiring challenges. So, you know, most of the conversations we have these days are around, um, helping us fill a need and customer acquisition.

[00:03:26] They can’t hire internally, or, you know, they’ve never outsourced before and they’ve, you know, their sales team is the holy grail of their business. And can they put it in someone else’s hands? Know, that’s the number one conversation right now we keep having is having trouble hiring.

[00:03:43]

Jason: Do you see a shift in that anytime soon or anything that’s going to affect that positively?

[00:03:52]

Michael: No, I’m not. Uh, I’m not here to. Procrastinate or pontificate or come up with different reasons of what I see. I just think over the next six to nine months, we’re not going to really see a big change. You know, the employment’s going to flip all of a sudden it’s wage rates constantly going up and the employment market is shrinking.

[00:04:14] So, you know, there’s some tension in the marketplace. You know, I, I say to people, um, you know, it’s really important not to put all your eggs in one basket and, you know, look at different ways to grow your business, especially on customer acquisition, that’s the lifeline of your business sales. So, um, if you’re outsourcing, you know, look and see if you could, um, bring in another company, if you’ve never outsourced before, it’s time to have that conversation, but either way, you know, Um, you need a great customer acquisition team.

[00:04:51]

Jason: Well, and I love what you said about not having all your eggs in one basket, because obviously what we saw was a lot of companies who eggs were all in their internal basket with a team, pandemic happens. Everyone goes through. Some, some of the reps can handle some can’t. Now they’re trying to hire, that’s not working.

[00:05:10] And now what do you do versus being diversified, um, and you know, just covering against any issues, even if there’s internal issues now. Kind of an external option or multiple options. What’s the, what’s the biggest kind of objection you hear. And obviously you’re dealing with big brands, maybe some startups, like I said, in the beginning, you know, some unicorns that are, are, are disrupting, but you know, what is, what is that objection that companies bring up more often than not about.

[00:05:43] Outsourcing or diversifying their sales team. Like you said, trusting someone else to run some of their revenue,

[00:05:49]

Michael: you know, it’s trust it’s, Hey, you know, can you do it better than we can internally? And you know, there’s lots of conversations. And the thing I tell people, you know, I’ve been, I’m an old, I’m an old veteran right now when it comes to sales and I’ve been doing this for a long time.

[00:06:05] And there’s a couple of factors that whether you do it internally or whether you outsource it and, you know, picking the right time. Hiring the right people, the most important thing in any organization, whether you’re doing it internally or externally, are you hiring the right people? Are you building the right culture?

[00:06:22] Do you have the right training in place? And you know, where people sometimes drop the ball is that, you know, you’ll find someone that is a great salesperson. Um, on the B2B side, but they’re used to three appointments a day. You know, field sales is kind of moved away. So when you talk to companies who’ve never really done inside sales, they’ve only been field sales and they’ve done two to three appointments a day.

[00:06:45] You know, that rep would get up in the morning. He’d grab some coffee, have his first meeting, maybe have a lunch with someone at the end of the day, bring some donuts and have three. It’s a different atmosphere right now you’re expected to do 5, 6, 7 meetings a day now with interactive video. So finding that right person, they may have been the greatest field sales person in the world, but now you’re in your room, you know, like you and I are doing a video conference.

[00:07:09] So talent is really important. So a lot of these companies, you know, they’ve never done this before, so they’re nervous. The flip side is that when you work with a company like ours or other outsourcers, that we’re taking our success across multiple different lines of business. So we know exactly where the right people are and to hire the right people.

[00:07:31] So, you know, that’s the one thing that we find that’s really common is that, um, how to build a culture, you know, how to recruit the right way, things like that. That’s what we hear mostly.

[00:07:44]

Jason: And it’s interesting, you’re talking about that field sales person going inside, like on the telephone and the volume of appointments.

[00:07:53] I think what, what I see a lot, and this is what I already know about your organization and the kind of work that you do is that a lot of companies, I consider them they’re playing sales, right? They think if I hire some salespeople who know what they’re doing, they have the experience and I let them loose.

[00:08:09] They’ll know what they’re doing. My organization and there’ll be successful. Right. And that systems, not processes, not all of these things, like a machine, more like sales sales, just let me do what I do best. I’m a salesperson, right. And an organization that’s run from the top down in that mode. And then you switched to a mode, like what you’re talking about with your company, which is okay, but you’re going to.

[00:08:36] Like a business and a machine with systems and processes, so you can replicate it and you can make sure that it’s successful. How often do you see that, that issue where it’s like, well, you know, we, we don’t need scripts and we don’t have scripts or we don’t even have training. We just have people. Okay.

[00:08:55]

Michael: All great questions. And I always go back to data and analytics, right. So, you know, you, you can’t just put sales into one little bucket and say it. Retention is the hardest sell whatsoever. And some people don’t think every touch in a sale, but you’re reselling an existing customer who mobile wants your product.

[00:09:11] Right? And if you don’t use data and analytics behind that, you don’t know why your customers are asking for reasons why that they may no longer want your product. Right? So two things, you said, scripts, not every customer has the same issue in the same problem nor needs the same product. So you can script things out, but who really wants to talk to someone who said.

[00:09:35] Jason, how can I help you? And they read down each line, that’s not selling, that’s not listening. So, you know, you, we use data analytics, coaching, and all these different methodologies to make a sales person better. But I’ll say this number of times throughout our podcast, putting the right person in the right role at the right time is going to be successful in way.

[00:09:58] Often, most times people put the wrong person in there because they want to fill it. And they think they can teach someone sales. Well, we got a great training program. Great. We’ve got a great recruiting program. Great. But you didn’t put the right candidate in there. Right. And so going back to something that we look at is we go with the, no, maybe right.

[00:10:18] If we’re sitting here out a compensation that maybe there’ll be successful, most likely they’re not right. When you look at an NFL draft. Right. And they have to pick 1, 3, 5, 7, they don’t sit around the draft table and go, okay. We think. We think this QB is going to be okay. He might make it. He might not, but you know, let’s take a risk on him.

[00:10:39] You don’t right. So when you use data and analytics and you put these things together, you build great sales program. Right, but you can’t script out someone to overcome an objection. Someone who can listen at the right time of when to close it when not to close more often than not, people never know how to ask for the sale.

[00:11:01] They’re waiting for the customer on the other end, they go, yes, I want it. And we know that doesn’t happen. Right? So long-winded answer, you have to really find the right people and use tools and technologies to make them better and understand what they’re doing. And when they understand that they get better and better.

[00:11:20]

Jason: So you’ve been in this a long time. You mentioned you’re a veteran at the, at, at, uh, the sales career. And obviously there’s a lot of people, you see a lot of internal campaigns when you’re talking about people and getting the right people into the role. And I love that. No, maybe rule, right? If it’s a maybe then it’s definitely a no, um, because of what it’s going to take to get that person to be successful.

[00:11:44] If at all, Is there certain things or are there certain things that you’re looking for or, you know, as, as a baseline or is it purely campaign

[00:11:55]

Michael: specific if you, if anyone’s ever interviewed. Sometimes they think, you know, this guy is off the wall because what I like to do is I like to throw crazy questions after.

[00:12:05] So I was interviewing Jason in the middle of the COVID interview. I’d say something like this, I’d say, Hey, Jason, I’m going to ask you a series of questions that are meaningless, right. There’s no right or wrong answer. Just, just personally pops in your mind, you know, tell me, and I’d say, Hey, I’m stuck on a desert island for one year.

[00:12:21] You only be able to bring one book with you. What would it be?

[00:12:28] I don’t know. You don’t know. Okay. What about a movie? One movie one year, one movie.

[00:12:35]

Jason: Um, I would say what about Bob?

[00:12:38]

Michael: What about Bob? Okay, cool. Yeah, it was the last time you turned your phone off

[00:12:43]

Jason: a couple of weeks ago when I went four days on a digital detox to the grand canyon.

[00:12:48]

Michael: Got it. Got it. And if I was to talk to the last person you reported to, and I said, um, give me one word to describe Jason.

[00:12:55] What would that word be? So, what I did there, right. Is I asked a series of questions to see if you can improvise. Right? How quick can you make decisions on your feet? Are you honest? Right. Was the last time it turned your phone off, you know, last book you started to think, right? These are things that characteristics that you get when you’re working with salespeople that you need.

[00:13:20] Right. And more often than not, we do. Right. We understand testing and all of that, but the inner personalities, the makings of a conversation. So right there, you and I were having a conversation. And if I got first book, I don’t know, last time I turned my phone off, I’m not sure that’s a no. Right. So when you’re really judging talent, you know, we could, we could look at and say, okay, this guy’s got the greatest resume in the world.

[00:13:51] Okay. Let anybody can do a paper resonate. Let’s go see what they have. You know, let’s go, let’s have that. One-on-one real quick and see if they can have a conversation to close.

[00:14:02]

Jason: I love it. And I waffled on the book thing because most of the time I read business books, but if I was on a desert island, I don’t know.

[00:14:09] And then the only other book that could pop in my head was jaws, but I don’t think that would be fun on a desert island. Just reading about man-eating sharks. Right. Um, what, uh, when we’re talking about that, cause hiring, I think is so important and not just because there’s a hiring challenge for organizations, but always getting the right people is.

[00:14:26] There, you know, it’s a, it’s a scary game for organization, so you get it right. That’s great. You get it wrong and it’s going to set you back. What are the kind of deal breaker? No, go things that you’re looking for. I know what you said about like, whether they can think on their feet and answer it, but is there a personalities behaviors, like anything where you’re just like this type of person just generally doesn’t work or this.

[00:14:51]

Michael: You know, it depends on the type of sale that you’re really looking at. So if, you know, if we’re doing B2B sales, you know, can they do math? You know, and, and why can they do math? Well, if we’re talking business, you know, there’s always a cost per acquisition, you know, what’s the cost per acquisition. Um, what’s the revenue going to be look like what’s the streamline.

[00:15:13] So, you know, math is important on B2B sales. If you’re doing inbound. Call it, you know, a consumer sales, it’s all about the upsell and the cross sell. Right? It’s about listening skills. So, you know, someone buys product a what B and C go along with that. Right. So listening skills. So this goes back to what we said earlier about working with a company like mine, you know, we have.

[00:15:42] Years and years of experience and finding the right person in the right role, where sometimes when a company needs to ramp for seasonality or a new product rollout, they don’t understand the nuances that may come along with that. So it’s really important when you’re building these campaigns, we always create what’s called a sales playbook and in that playbook, it’s.

[00:16:09] We do testing for personalities and see if there’s specific scores. Sometimes you may have to score an 80 or above sometimes a 90 or above, or sometimes a 75 or above for Pacific sales line of business. But that’s the original profile. And as we go on 30, 60, 90 days into this, the profile is fluid and may change.

[00:16:29] And we’ll find out which I have in the past that, you know, a certain personality trait that we thought was right for this. Necessarily might not be moving forward. So creating sales playbooks in always having that back to let’s go back to recruiting and look at the results 30 days, 60 days and 90 days from now.

[00:16:53] And then let’s really have a deeper dive into training. Right? So you’re training your trainers should be able to recognize. Immediately if this person is going to be successful or not. So if they’re not going to be successful in a training, why are we going to spend two weeks trying to train or three weeks, that’s not going to be successful.

[00:17:11] Um, but Hey, if you see that, you know, these people are successful, let’s look deeper into that background and find more candidates like that. So it’s a team effort when you’re building stuff. Uh, programs. Does that make sense?

[00:17:27]

Jason: It does. And it’s interesting that you say that about the trainer side, because I know one of my first leadership roles where I was training, I was recruiting and then training and then managing and running this small team, uh, under 20 people with some telemarketing.

[00:17:44] Boss would constantly come to me and say, well, how much time should we give people? Like when do you know if they’re going to be a good fit or not? And I’m like buy lunch on the first day, right? In training, are they asking questions? Are they engaged? I’ve literally had people who are just tired and they’re kind of sleepy.

[00:18:01] And, and I’m like, if you’re not excited in the first half of your first day, at the most exciting point before things get real and difficult and challenge. Um, then it’s not going to work.

[00:18:12]

Michael: So I love the call center business. I love people. Um, I like meeting new people, right? So there’s a couple of things.

[00:18:19] Like if I’m ever, you know, pre COVID I’m in one of our centers, I love to go on the training room and I can identify immediately. Who’s going to be successful or not. And here’s a tip to everybody. I walk in and I say, Hey, I tell them who I am. And then I say, I’m gonna go around the room and point to you and just do me a favor.

[00:18:37] And. Tell me your name, your last position, and something interesting that I would remember you by, you know, so I, you know that, let me start it off. So, Hey, I’m Mike Romano. Um, I won’t say my last company, but something interesting about me is, you know, I got a full parrot that talks, boom. Right. I go around the room and I can tell you immediately who’s going to make it or not just by the way they pop up.

[00:19:05] They say their name and something about. You can tell who’s not gonna make it because they’ll go on. Got my name’s Mike. Uh, my last company was, um, um, they’re not gonna make it because the sales that first 30 seconds is the most important thing that intro, right? Do you have life where you’re monotone, you have voice inflection, right?

[00:19:25] So, you know, I always pulled a trainer around her after the class and go, Hey, if I can see that 30 seconds into this, why are we going to go two weeks with this person? Which we know is not going to make it because if they’re doing outbound calling, they’re never going to get past the gate. Right. So, you know, when’s the right time to pull the plug.

[00:19:41] You’re exactly right. There’s no, it’s, it’s in training when we graduate someone, that’s a whole different story. You know, if, if we graduate someone that has gone through all the processes, sometimes, you know, there’s components that happen in terms of technology or other things. So we got to give them some.

[00:20:03] Right. What’s the ramp to proficiency. What does that look like? So, you know, I’m a big proponent of early on in training if they’re not going to make it, but once we graduate, there’s a ramp to proficiency and you’ve got to really, it’s now the company, the managers, the team’s responsibility to make them successful.

[00:20:26] And another tip I’d say to everybody is this right sales leaders, can you sell. Right. Are you able to get on that call and save the sale? Because you know, sales is all about positive energy. So, you know, you want to be a good sales leader. Don’t let your team, the people you hire, fail on the phone and then come back and tell them all the things they did wrong side Jack, get on the call, save it and show them.

[00:20:51] Right. So many times we talked about, you know, oh, they didn’t do this. Right. They didn’t. No, it’s your job to teach someone. That’s why we have sales coaches. That’s why we have sales trainers. And so with me, it’s not about, you know, let’s cut them right away. It’s right. Role for the right person. They went through everything.

[00:21:10] Now it’s up to the leadership to make them. That’s how I looked at it.

[00:21:14]

Jason: Yeah. And I agree that especially if someone’s made it through training and if you built a training with a go-no-go process, not just on personality, but like actually some skills testing and things like that. Once they graduate from this.

[00:21:29] If for some reason you have to let them go. That means, and the way I was taught, it was means you failed as an organization. Either you hired the wrong person or you didn’t support them fully. Right? Yeah. Looking at it in that attitude now that does not a hundred percent true. And it’s not always your fault, but that’s the best approach I found.

[00:21:48]

Michael: Yep. But you also have to look at the culture, the compensation, you know, you have the right compensation model. Do you have the right culture? Is it a positive culture? You know, is it, is it a teamwork culture? We high-five and people, when we go to sale or we’re ringing a bell, you know, I mean, what are we doing?

[00:22:05] You know, to make people want to come to work everyday and be happy. And, and so that’s a lot to do with it too, you know, driving a happy culture in sales. You know, I, I look at sales is somewhat to sports, you know, You’re out there. And, um, I don’t know if anyone’s seen the Baltimore game this week, but you know, for three quarters, Lamar Jackson looked like he couldn’t do anything.

[00:22:27] Right. You know, and he fumbled in the game, looked over and, you know, he never blinked and I never thought, you know, he doesn’t have it in him. And he came out and he just had a monster fourth quarter. Right. He doesn’t let the things or the distraction happen and things he has to happen in sales, you know, three or four calls people hang up.

[00:22:47] You know, Laura of averages tells you that, Hey, no matter what, you know, it takes four calls to make oneself. Three of those could go really bad. It comes to fourth one. So that’s where coaching and motivation and culture.

[00:23:00]

Jason: Yeah, because sales is a tough mental thing. And just to revisit what you said about asking people in the training room to stand up and talk about it.

[00:23:08] That was a lesson I learned from a friend a long time ago, even before I got into sales management. And I’ve done that forever with group interviews where people come in, it’s a group and then one at a time having them stand because you see that and you know, who’s got. You know, and if you get more of those people, even before it starts, this is a room full of strangers.

[00:23:30] They don’t even sure. They’re not even sure why they were there yet. Cause they’re in the interview process and the people who are willing to get up and, you know, have some confidence in themselves like that’s who you want.

[00:23:40]

Michael: A lot of B2B interviews we used to do in the past was in one day. And, um, you put two desks in a big room, one on the right one on the left and you call them up one by one and you have that interview.

[00:23:50] And I would be the interview and I talk really loud and ask them to talk really loud because you want to see, I mean, if you’re doing B2B sales, you have to get past the gatekeeper. You do that. Um, but the other tip that I give people all the time, if you want to be really great, Um, and if I go on a tangent, just bring me back in, I do a lot of training and talking to people and talking to our, you know, our agents and potential agents and especially on the B2B side, right?

[00:24:14] How do you get past a gatekeeper? Right. And there’s a tip. I tell everybody, and it may sound crazy again, but, um, this goes back to my early days of learning, how to sell. You have to learn how to talk to people. So when you’re in training, knowing that you’re going to start doing outbound calls, Every time you can interact with someone, you don’t know, ask them a question.

[00:24:38] Hence, during the grocery store, you’re checking out, right? You got to pay it at $60. You go to the person who’s checking you out and go $60. The average cost of when someone checks out, like, what does the average person spend a day? And they look at you sideways, like you’re crazy. Right? And then they tell you the number and you look to the person behind you and go, is that about what you spend in.

[00:25:01] Right. You’re having conversations with people you’ve never met before. Some of them are going to be really rude to you and some are going to be nice. That’s how you train to get past the gatekeeper. Right? When you’re in the elevator, the most uncomfortable conversation you can ever have with someone is turn to them and go, where are you from?

[00:25:16] They don’t know. I did that last week. You know, they didn’t know what to do. They looked at me again, like I was crazy. Where are you from a sound from south Florida? I’m not used to this place. And then you have a conversation, right? So. What this goes back to what I always say, leadership, right? When you’re building these programs, are you putting these things in place?

[00:25:34] And it goes back to what you said about script. We can write all these things down, but we have to teach the individual how to sell. And, and so going back to what I said earlier about when you work with a company like mine, is that we take all the learnings from the sales playbooks that we have. We take that to the first time outsourcer.

[00:25:55] Who’s never done this before and say, Hey, you’ve been living in a bubble for the last 20 years. We get it. And that bubble has been very successful, but it’s a different landscape out there. Right. The climate has changed and let us help you. And we take all the knowledge that you have to make your program successful, but we take a couple of bits from these pride programs that are really successful to make your us just a little better.

[00:26:17] And that’s why outsourcing, uh, with companies like ours, most of the time is successful. If you do it with the right people, with the right resources, using data.

[00:26:27]

Jason: Got it. I love that a mini masterclass on the hiring, the recruiting, the training, kind of what you’re looking for, both for managers, leaders who can take that.

[00:26:37] And then anyone who’s listening to this that’s in sales and thinking, you know, am I, am I on the right track or not? You know, hopefully that helps. One of the things I can’t stop thinking about though, is organizations where they just don’t have. Their sales process built, maybe even the stuff that you’re talking about, where it’s like, here’s the kind of people you want to hire.

[00:26:59] Here’s what you’re looking for. Here’s the right people you want on the bus so we can make sure the bus gets to its destination. And I’m just thinking of organizations. They’re nowhere they’re in their bubble, like you said, and then they want to outsource, or they’re thinking about it. Is there a point at which you actually tell an organization?

[00:27:17] No. You can’t help them as an outsource partner because they don’t have anything in place or do you work with them to put those things in place and build the machine with them so that you can then outsource?

[00:27:31]

Michael: Well, I’m in sales. So there is no, no, there’s never a no. Okay. There’s there’s, there’s nothing.

[00:27:36] We can’t. All right, you can build things. So I go back to tools and technology, and I’m blessed to work with an organization that has so many tools and so many technologies that can help the company that you just spoke about. Right. Um, the challenge is the ego that comes along with that. Hey, you know, we’re a multi-billion dollar company and we’re truly successful.

[00:28:01] We don’t need you. Okay. But I can make it. You know, we have an organization that uses tools and technologies that can help you get better. So once the egos get in check, it’s pretty much, you know, we work together and collaborate the most successful programs that I’m a part of is collaboration, right?

[00:28:19] It’s our company and your company working together to build a better product, to get a better end result. And when you collaborate, you get great results. Um, We have a lot of what we call champion challengers, right? So companies that use multiple outsourcers, we have champion challenges. We share the data, we see the success, but then you take what’s successful and you share that with other people and say, Hey, this is what’s working for us.

[00:28:48] This is what we see. Because at the end of the day, if the company we’re working for is more successful, We grow right? If the company is not sharing the data or what’s not working and they’re letting us fail, that doesn’t make sense either. So, you know, it’s really about collaboration with people and leaving their egos in check.

[00:29:11] And, and most of the clients that I work with, we’re a hundred percent transparent. We build programs for the end result, which is my job is to lower your cost per acquisition. Increase revenue per transaction and bring a higher lifetime value to your customer. If I do all those three things, I did my job.

[00:29:41]

Jason: I’m pausing here because I’m thinking about that and that model, which I think is great. And I think about that ego part that you mentioned, which is when they think they know everything and that gets in the way. And obviously that’s a barrier in any sales process when somebody thinks they know better or they’re not open to any solution consumer business-wise, then that’s a, that’s a tough nut to crack.

[00:30:03] I’m also thinking the other end of the spectrum, where a company says, we just want you to do it all. We don’t care what you do. Here’s the result that we want. Take it right. Abdicating the process or sales or client acquisition revenue to an outsource partner, because they don’t have an idea of how to do it internally.

[00:30:26] They’re not successful. And I’ve seen companies do that, where they hire somebody who promises the world. But they don’t give them anything because they don’t even know how to sell their own product successfully at scale. And then of course, outsource partners fail. Where do you see that happen? Or you just know to avoid those kinds of people who are just like, please raise my

[00:30:48]

Michael: baby.

[00:30:48] I live by, uh, information not shared is worth this information right in. Give us something to go off of. You know, if you’re just going to give us a piece of paper and go here, you know, sign the contract, they go build it and be successful. We’re not going to know the nuances that the challenge, you know, the things that worked and didn’t work, it’s going to set us all back.

[00:31:13] So I go back to collaboration, you know, we, we have to collaborate together to build something. And if, again, if we’re just seeing as some outsourced. That’s not who we are, we’re an extension of your business. Um, so when, when you hire us and we work with you, you know, where, where, where we are, you’re inside, outside sales team, we’re just an extension of you under a different roof.

[00:31:42] Um, so, you know, again, do I, I don’t walk away because I feel like. Work with almost any individual and we can build something together. That’s the main reason why you’ve reached out to me. Right. So, you know, it’s, it’s very rare that someone doesn’t say, Hey, come on in and let’s talk and then goes, okay, we got nothing for you.

[00:32:01] It’s how can, you know, let me solve your problems. Um, and, and these days, you know, we’re all in the same kind of bubble, right? That things are changing rapidly, but what’s not changing. Is that the lifeline of every business is their sales team. Um, you know, you, you need new customers, you need to maintain your customers.

[00:32:26] So you need new sales and you need retention. And that hasn’t changed in hundreds of years.

[00:32:34]

Jason: Makes sense. I love it. Um, and I agree, and I, and I’ve seen. Some outsource partner, especially business development, B2B, or they’re like, we’ll just do it for you. And, uh, that doesn’t work for most organizations because if they don’t know how to make it successful, the partner,

[00:32:51]

Michael: I think I would say is, you know, and I’ll be careful the way that I say this, but, um, you know, I, I’m not the price war guy.

[00:32:59] I’m not the cheapest, you know, you’re with me and sales, you know, the cheapest usually is the one. Right because it’s, you’re building a sales team, you know, it’s all about compensation and the more you sell, the more you make. Right. So it’s kind of like an oxymoron. I can’t be the cheapest. It’d be the best.

[00:33:17] Right. So, you know, when companies are outsourcing and you’re dealing with some procurement procurement people or other people in individual and they’re, Hey, you know, you’re 20% more. Okay. Well, are we looking at, you know, I can do more with less, right? So what most companies can do with a hundred agents, I can do.

[00:33:33] And drive more revenue per transaction. Right? So again, the mindset of what we’re talking about earlier is that, Hey, there’s an education on both sides when you’re doing sales. It’s not about average handle time. It’s not about, you know, what are the butts in the seats? It’s not about hourly wages. It’s about revenue per transaction.

[00:33:52] You know, it’s about closing numbers. It’s about upselling and cross. Right. It’s a completely different component than a care model. So, you know, again, what you said earlier is like, when you’re having these meetings, you have to make sure the people you’re talking to understand the same concept. You know, I’ve never been with someone who says again, I go back to sports in the free agent market, you know, we want the cheapest guy and he’s gonna be.

[00:34:15] They’ll just doesn’t work that way. Right. They’re looking at, if you have pictures, you’re looking at innings, pitched an era. If you’re looking at a home run bomber, it’s, you know, how many home runs they’re going to have. Right. So, you know, we, we don’t pay that guy the lowest, right. We pay them the highest for performance.

[00:34:31] Right. So again, when you’re outsourcing, you have to really look at what you’re getting. Right. And if you’re getting the cheapest in sales, it’s probably the worst.

[00:34:41]

Jason: So let’s shift a little bit, obviously. Your organization, global workforce, global sales team, different different parts of the world. Everybody was affected by the pandemic.

[00:34:54] What w what was one of the biggest surprises and successes that you saw, especially as a sales leader, like from your internal,

[00:35:05]

Michael: let me start with, yeah, right. Um, I work with some of the smartest individuals you’re ever to. And I don’t say that just because that worked for the company, but we had a work from home workforce before the pandemic.

[00:35:21] We had everything in place doing work from home. So there wasn’t a big shift for us because we had the infrastructure. So it was really just a matter of pivoting, right. People and equipment. But we had the infrastructure in place to do work from home. So we were already light years ahead of most organizations.

[00:35:40] Um, the challenge. Um, on a global scale, is, is bandwidth making sure that you have the right bandwidth in your home. And as you go into some of these countries that don’t have the infrastructure that maybe the us has, right? So it’s bandwidth issues. It’s again, in my world and sales, do you have a room that you could get on a conversation with?

[00:36:04] That’s not background noise, that two kids and a dog or running into the room, you know, Again, we’re all, we’re all working from home school, from home, you know, is there a room that you can dedicate yourself? So we spent a lot of time going back to what I said earlier when you’re recruiting to make sure that to have a dedicated workspace that would have a good broadband connection, that they have the right tools and technology, um, because there’s nothing worse than a bad connection when you’re trying to close.

[00:36:34] Right. And then that becomes the excuse, you know? Oh, got disconnected. When we all know disconnected rings, they hung up on you. And so, you know, um, for us, it wasn’t a big pivot because we had the infrastructure.

[00:36:50]

Jason: What do you see as the near future? Let’s say, you know, we’re recording this October 20, 21, the rest of this year, next year in two aspects, especially you being a very experienced salesperson. So the two parts that I’m really curious about is what’s the near future and what’s upcoming for. Call centers and either technology or, you know, dealing with the personnel issues, hiring issues.

[00:37:17] And then the second part is what do you see changing in the landscape for buyers, for customers, whether it’s B2B or B2C and what they’re looking for and what you see as how your organization especially is going to adapt to that instead of like, just doing it the same way all the time.

[00:37:37]

Michael: You know, we’re, we’re seeing a shift.

[00:37:41] In, in more emerging brands, direct to consumers. Brands has retail starts to fizzle out, you know, malls are physically out and, you know, the brick and mortar retail stores are fizzling out. You’re seeing more direct to consumers. So you’re seeing more opportunities for businesses who have never really outsourced before use call center for sales and things like that.

[00:37:59] So I see that on the horizon, I see video in life, selling on the horizon as a big aspect as we move into the next 24. Especially with the younger generation. Um, but what I see more often than not is companies who have never done this before and now are starting to realize that they’ve learned going back to what I said earlier that, Hey, I may have a captive center.

[00:38:23] I may have two captive standards, but. It’s really about protection of your business and diversifying where your centers are and where your people are. Because especially in the global landscape, we’ve learned that things can happen really quick. So I think what you’re seeing now is more companies trying to understand that, Hey, you know, I may be captive.

[00:38:50] This may not be the way to go into the future. The other thing is. You talked about right now, the challenge is going to be people, you know, um, there’s a, there’s a, um, wage rate that keeps rising and rising and rising, and I’m not going to get political with inflation and things like that. But companies really have to look at how they could increase.

[00:39:20] Revenue per transaction on cross selling and upselling and retention and using all the tools and technologies to keep customers because things like inflation in things start to happen. People look at their bills, you know, as gas prices go up and things go up with heating oil. You start to look at an and that’s where you’ve got to have a really good retention.

[00:39:45] You know, you better have a good customer acquisition team, especially on the B2B side now, because as more B2B companies move to the digital transformation of their business, right now you have a landscape of different opportunities where it may have been someone knocking at your door. Right now you’re proactively seeking something and you’re going to talk to two or three individuals.

[00:40:08] So video again is prevalent. You know, face-to-face selling on B2B using video. So video on direct on consumer and B2B. I would say this, right? And I’ll, it’s like the fifth time I’ve said it, Jason having the right person in the right role, right. Put a lot of more effort into recruiting and training and finding that right person because what you don’t want to do.

[00:40:33] And you’re going to see in a tight labor market is when an opportunity comes along that someone can make three, four or $5 an hour. They leave, take care of your employees. Now more than ever. And so it, my organization, we have so many countries that have one great places to work and make sure that you will become a great place to work, have diversity in the workforce and hire good people and keep them because the companies who are going to succeed over the next 24 months are the ones that have a diverse workforce, where the sales culture is great.

[00:41:10] And the people are happy because if they’re not. They just need to walk down the street and you don’t have a job. It’s a, it’s an employee’s market right now. Right. So, you know, that’s where I see the next 24 months take care of the people who take care.

[00:41:26]

Jason: And I absolutely love the intersection of what you said throughout that too, which is take care of the people, right?

[00:41:32] Hire the right people, take care of them, make it a great place to work, make it a place where people are going to want to come work so you can win that decision and keep your employees. While at the same time, figuring out ways to retain people who might want to cancel or leave as a customer, uh, upsell, cross sell, improve that lifetime value of a client in that way.

[00:41:57] It’s fun. The best place to work and being able to compensate people on performance-based and keeping people happy. And it just loops. I see what I’m sure you see sometimes, which is organizations say they’re not good at the sales part, the upsell, the cross sell the retention they could be, but they’re just not, they’re focused on the new client acquisition, not everything else.

[00:42:17] And so what happens is they feel like they don’t have the mind to pay more because they’re hemorrhaging or bleeding out the other side. And then it’s just this vicious. And what you’re saying is two parts is solved. Both of those, right? You solve one, you solve the other, you solve them both at the same time, improve both at the same time.

[00:42:34] And then it’s just,

[00:42:36]

Michael: there’s so many companies that I help, um, help them understand what their cost per acquisition. Right. And in this day and age, you know, what’s your cost per acquisition all in while they have an all-in number. I know that’s radio TV, that’s paid search non-brand search SEO, email, SMS, social media.

[00:42:58] I can give you 11 different marketing methodologies without blinking an eye. Tell me the cost per cost per acquisition of each one of those methodologies. Right? Let me help you break that down and understand where your marketing dollars are being spent correctly. Or is there attribution, you know, okay.

[00:43:16] Radio, TV, paid search, social media, are you tracking attribution? You know? And so again, you know, that’s where that Eagle sitting comes in. Right? I’ve been doing this long enough to know that there is no perfect science when it comes to attribution, but you’ll hear a lot of people say, we’ve got to keep doing radio.

[00:43:37] We got to keep doing TV. Okay. And is it working well? Yeah. They’re not doing attribution because they’re not using data and analytics. Right. And then, well, retention, you know, they’ll just give the store away on retention, you know, oh one month free or this and that, but they don’t know. They’re not listening to the reasons why of, I love your product, but I may be moving.

[00:44:01] I love your product, but I’m still waiting for it. Right. That’s where voice analytics come in and QA teams. Right. So, you know, again, Look at the whole customer journey from the time they landed on your wet property to that conversation of three months from now, when you’re trying to win them back, something happened in between that 90 days.

[00:44:24] Let’s find out together why they’re no longer want to be your customer. Um, there’s many different reasons, but we’re going into a, uh, uh, a time now where if you’re not using data and analytics and digital transformation, To make you better, faster, quicker, cheaper. You’re going to be left behind. Right. And that’s where companies like mine help you.

[00:44:48]

Jason: Yeah. I couldn’t agree more because there was a time in the past where only the big players might have the resources to pull those things off. And then there was enough share for everyone else. Now with the technology cloud-based scalable systems, companies like yours that are willing to support.

[00:45:07] Anybody has the chance and the ability to scale and do really well and own a very large market share based on data analytics, tools, technology, resources, hiring the right people. And, uh, I agree. I mean, if you’re still hoping that things are going to work, it’s not, well, my goal, I appreciate you being on here.

[00:45:27] So. I thought we were going to talk way more about other topics. And I loved where this went is so fun. Um, I know that if people want to find out more information, they can go to teleperformance.com. I know there’s a ton of resources on there. People want to check that out. I know that you’re active on LinkedIn so they can find you on there.

[00:45:45] Any other cool things, any other valuable things, any other ways that you want people to interact with you, or find out more about what you all doing?

[00:45:54]

Michael: I do a podcast with Stephanie Miller. You could find that on the website. Um, we shoot the breeze of sales. Love to have you come on there one day to, with us and shoot it.

[00:46:06] I’m on LinkedIn. I go to some trade shows and conventions, but you know, just getting back into that mix right now, um, plan on being more active in 2022 as things open up. But I really enjoyed my time today with you. And, um, hopefully, you know, everyone’s staying healthy and getting out there and, you know, it’s, um, I love sales.

[00:46:29] I can talk about it.

[00:46:31]

Jason: Well, we’ll definitely have to do a second part. Cause I feel like there’s still a bunch that we both wanted to talk about and I know that’ll be fun and I’m excited to see you soon at some conferences. And, uh, I appreciate all the value shared, Michael. Thanks for, uh, thanks for coming on the show and, uh, being here with us today

What is the best way to measure authenticity? What does it take to get scalable results?

In this solo episode, I talk about this topic or question I got recently – scaling authenticity, which really got me thinking the moment I answered it.

If we’re talking about building scalable call centers, anything is really about putting in a certain amount of inputs, and getting more output than you’re putting in, which results in you and your people – winning.

Learn more about this topic and become an effective salesperson, moving towards being a sales professional.

Find out if your Sales Operation in Scalable

Buy Selling With Authentic Persuasion: Transform from Order Taker to Quota Breaker

Get help with your sales team

Connect with Jason on LinkedIn

Or go to Jason’s HUB – www.JasonCutter.com

Have you ever been caught up doing the same thing, the same way all the time? Where does technology play a role in providing a solution?

A lot of businesses seek to implement technology and sales enablement solutions. All of these things are necessary for efficiency, but we still need people. You want to give people the best opportunity and pitches available and yet not spoiling them by giving them too much.

In this episode, Alec Thompson from Call Shaper and I talk about his experiences in helping businesses work smarter through technology. Alec is an award-winning executive with extensive experience in technologies, security, and software.

Learn more about creating efficiencies and success with your sales team.

Find out if your Sales Operation in Scalable

Buy Selling With Authentic Persuasion: Transform from Order Taker to Quota Breaker

Get help with your sales team

Connect with Jason on LinkedIn

Or go to Jason’s HUB – www.JasonCutter.com

Connect with Alec on LinkedIn.

Alec‘s Bio
Alec is an award-winning Executive with a 20+ year proven track record achieving quantifiable results creating and implementing sales training, new sales strategies, marketing, and new product strategies. Alec has extensive experience in the Technology, Security, Software Hospitality, Health, and Education fields and is uniquely positioned to help businesses work smarter through technology.

Alec’s Links
https://www.callshaper.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIhZt-qpCfU
https://www.linkedin.com/company/9237067/

Jason: Hey, what’s going on, everybody. Welcome to another special episode of the scalable call center sales podcast. I have another amazing guest and it’s fun because I’ve done some collaborative work with him, which we’ll, we’ll talk about some of the stuff that we’ve done, which has been fun, but I have Mr.

[00:00:16] Alec Thompson from call shaper on the podcast today with me. And so he is an award-winning executive with 20 plus years, a proven track record. And getting results, implementing sales, training, new sales strategies, marketing, new product strategies, all of that. With his extensive experience in the technologies, security, software, hospitality health, I’m going to guess to everything he’s, he’s done it all.

[00:00:45] Uh, he focuses now with call shaper in helping businesses work smarter through technology, especially phones. This is a call center podcast. He’s in the dialer software technology phone side of the business. So it makes only sense for him to be on here. Alec, welcome to the scalable call center sales.

[00:01:06]

Alec: Thanks, Jason, it’s great to be with you today. I’m excited for this. Yeah. So

[00:01:10]

Jason: to set the stage of where we’re going to go with this, or however many tangents, we’re probably going to take in, in, in providing some value to everybody, let’s start with what’s your main focus. Right now, or with call shaper. And with your experience for call center leaders, what are you focused on these days?

[00:01:34]

Alec: Well, I think the biggest thing really for me, is efficiencies, right? And helping call center leaders have an understanding of how technology can create more efficiencies in their business. And we all get caught up and kind of doing the same thing the same way all the time. And sometimes we, you know, it’s the old forest for the trees type of thing.

[00:01:52] We just keep doing things and bumping our head into the same problem. And, and sometimes, especially with stir shaken, right, there are all kinds of solutions out there, whether it’s with call shaper or, uh, you know, five, nine VG convos. Everybody has some kinds of solutions from a technology standpoint to help make things easier for these business leaders.

[00:02:15] I think that sometimes people just are like, oh, more legislation. I’m scared. I don’t really want to deal with that. Let’s figure out a way to work around it rather than work within the parameters. And, you know, we, we call shape are pretty well focused on helping people to find efficiencies and create efficiencies using the software.

[00:02:35] But we also like to help them, you know, with providing ideas and concepts that they may not have thought about before that are well above and beyond just what we kind of do. So I think that kind of answers your question.

[00:02:48]

Jason: All right. So efficiencies technology, legislation, regulations compliance. You mentioned stir shaken, which I don’t want assume, you know, everyone listening to this show has heard other shows or they’re well aware of it.

[00:03:02] What’s the brief summary of what stir shaken is and how that affects, let’s say a telesales call center inviting.

[00:03:11]

Alec: Well, I think the biggest thing that it’s doing is it’s, if organizations don’t have their phone numbers look, um, logged or, um, made, so that. Well, they look like it’s not spam, even if they would, might be considered spam by some people they’re going to start getting blocked.

[00:03:32] And, and I think that the biggest thing about stir shaken is that the, the actual, um, phone providers don’t really even know what they have to do. You know, when you have laws and legislation that are written, but then bureaucrats get in and actually create how it’s. The poor telecoms. I mean, all of us in the call center industry don’t like them because they block calls because they get in the way of doing business.

[00:03:57] And because they charge us gobs and gobs of money to do it, however they’re kind of rock and a hard place too. Right. They don’t really know what the rules are. So they’re kind of making them up as they go along and you get the companies like T-Mobile that’ll block and spam any call just because they’d rather be safe than sorry.

[00:04:17] And then at, at, and T and Verizon that are more likely like, well, let’s see what this really is before we just jump off and start blocking it. And a lot of that comes from, you know, T-Mobile is part of Deutsche telecom. So they’re heavily regulated German company. They’re used to this. They’re used to heavy regulation, whereas at and T and Verizon are kind of like, Ooh, government involved in our business all over the place.

[00:04:40] But I think that the biggest thing for people to be aware of with stir shaken is that it won’t go away. There’s going to be more and more regulations on the call center industry. So you have to be able to kind of roll with the punches, but more importantly, I think you have to be able to find ways to be efficient and effective in spite of new regulations.

[00:04:59] And don’t let those be an excuse or like a crutch as to why you’re not be having success. Your contact rates are dropping. That’s probably some of it, but there are probably some other things to look at. Right? What are you, where are you? What are your lead files looking like? What’s your actual penetration rate in your lead files from three years ago versus a year ago versus today?

[00:05:22] Not just contact rate, right? And then are you, what are you doing for your reps to get them to be better prepared to be in front of that live person when they get the connected phone call? Right? Cause you need to be able to close more calls because the agents are getting less calls. You have to be able to close more of them to be able to make up the devastate of the number of calls they’re going out.

[00:05:44] So, you know, like I said, stir shaken, it’s not going away, but making excuses about searching and isn’t going to help your business.

[00:05:52]

Jason: Well, and I think it’s interesting too, is to look at the. Uh, where companies fall in, let’s say opposite ends of that spectrum and the, and the different camps. You know, the we’re not gonna abide by these rules because that’s going to impact us.

[00:06:07] And we’d rather, you know, have money set aside to pay for the fines or deal with the issues. And I’ve had a couple of people on the podcast, Eric Troutman and Michelle Schuster, you know, talking about being proactive and trying to help yourself. Being reactive and getting into trouble. How do you set yourself up, especially in a defensible position.

[00:06:25] Um, and so you have that side there where it’s like, Hey, you know, um, uh, oh, what is that? It’s easier to ask for forgiveness than permission and they just want to ignore it and put their head in the sand and just keep going. And then there’s the other end, which you said, which is the, okay. If I have to abide by this, then it means I can’t be effective and I can’t be profitable.

[00:06:44] And we can’t run a successful business because of. You know, uh, it’s too restrictive and it just cripples my chances. Right? So, same thing with being compliant. Well, I can either sell or I can be compliant, but I can’t do both. Uh, which is an attitude in organizations sometimes at the salesperson level.

[00:07:04] They’re like, well, if you want me to be compliant, then good luck. Cause I’m not going to close any deals. Right.

[00:07:09]

Alec: And it’s that mindset, whether it’s top down or bottom up, it doesn’t matter. Right. Can’t never could. And I think that a lot of people that say, well, Well, you never will. Right? You have to have the mindset of like, we will find a way.

[00:07:24] Right. And you know, that there’s that old adage. What would you do if you knew you could not fail? Right? It’s not to say that at times that you’re not going to go Boston through walls and having to ask for forgiveness rather than permission, that’s going to happen. Right. You’re going to make mistakes, especially with new legislation and new bureaucracies coming up with new things that you have to try to follow.

[00:07:45] And it’s okay to screw up from time to time. That’s why you should have a, like a kitty for paying fines in case. However, you know, you want to be able to take the best of what is happening in the, in this crazy world and be able to turn it to your advantage, right? Your competitors are likely going to be slow to it.

[00:08:06] And they’re going to be the ones I’d say probably 50%, if not 80% of competitors are going to be really, really down on themselves. And whoa, the future woe is me. Everything’s awful. So if you’re one of that 20% that are like, I see opportunity, you’re going to be able to crush it. Right. You’re going to come up with new and innovative ways and find other technologies that might help you be faster and more.

[00:08:31] Right. You sitting around in wine and about it, ain’t going to get the job done. You can either find a way or you can get out of the business. I mean, I don’t know what, you know, what’s Dell people, but I think that it’s a lot easier to find a way and use your team. If you’ve got a great. Enable them, you know, give them the power to go to bat and find unique ways.

[00:08:53] And it doesn’t hurt to try stuff if it fails. So what, you know, it’s not the end of the world. You’re going to bang your head against the wall, worrying about these regulations all the time. It, it, you’re going to have to find a way around them and find a way to work with.

[00:09:10]

Jason: Well, and I think it was great.

[00:09:11] What you said was they’re not going away if I, I’m not a legal or a history expert. Uh, that’s not my, my side, but I can pretty much guess that most of the regulations and legislations that come in, especially against businesses to help protect consumers, they don’t undo those. If it doesn’t seem to be effective, they don’t go back and get.

[00:09:37]

Alec: Uh,

[00:09:38]

Jason: you know, these rules, ah, you know, we’ll just undo it, right. Can spam, you know, I think everyone got the lesson. Let’s just go back to, you know, not worrying about spam emails or robocalls or things like that. Right. And so TCPA is not going anywhere. In fact, it’s only getting mess over and harder because each state is now making their own thing.

[00:09:57] Right. Florida has, what’s called the mini TCPA. So it’s putting your head in the sand and expecting things to just go back to the way. Isn’t going to happen. Um, the other part that you said that I absolutely love, obviously from my own interest in how I help companies is the fact that, okay, so you might have less opportunities.

[00:10:17] There might be less phone calls getting through because of the rules of the regulations and the compliance around making sure you have opt-in data, right? So your salespeople might have less at bats, which means if you want to succeed, they just have to. Better at converting each one of those at-bats right.

[00:10:35] Like if you’re a baseball player and you can’t control how many pitches you’re going to get, you gotta get better at hitting any opportunity that you can out of the

[00:10:42]

Alec: park. And I think something else that’s, that’s important around that too. Jason is. You’re also having an opportunity where you may not need as many heads in your business, right?

[00:10:54] If you have a better train Salesforce and they’re really good at what they do. And you know that the number of calls you’re actually connecting to were low. You know, it may sound kind of archaic to say it, but at the same time, you may not need, you know, another 10% of the workforce. You just don’t need those people that are right on the cusp of being just okay.

[00:11:14] If they’re not going to learn and get better and be actively trying to become really great salespeople. Stop beating your head against the wall as a business owner. Let those people go and find the, you know, the champions within your organization that will take this on and be like, I need to get better.

[00:11:31] I want to make more money. I want to be, I want to be the best at what I do. And those salespeople will really surprise you in how much they can close when you get, when they get live people. So it’s not the old school days where we just use the mirror test and figure out who’s going to fit. Right. You got to use tools like PI and things like that to determine who is really a good fit.

[00:11:56] And then when they get in, you gotta make sure you’re using quality assurance methods and coaching and training to keep them performing. And if they’re not going to be, you know, going on the upswing at some point, You know, cut your losses, man. But there is an opportunity for those businesses that look at it as an opportunity to be able to cut some costs in the human resources side, by spending money on training and developing your people and find out who were the best learners and the people that are going to take the most out of it.

[00:12:30] And then go to bat more times and swing harder every time they’re at.

[00:12:38]

Jason: Yeah, I think it’s important to, for organizations to realize the buyers have changed no matter what you’re selling, it could be direct to consumers. It could be to businesses. You’re still dealing with a human, with a person who is making that decision.

[00:12:52] And the buyers have changed where you’re talking about that whole, like, can you fog up a mirror hiring strategy with high rate of turnover might have been okay. 5, 10, 20 years ago. When consumers had a low expectation, they didn’t have any knowledge or information. They were desperate for help or guidance or data.

[00:13:13] Now everyone has access to all of the world’s information in arms reach. And so they have a very high expectation. Take the risk of talking to a salesperson it’s because they need help. And if your people are still fogging up mirrors and that’s how effective they are, that consumer’s literally going to go somewhere else and fill out another form to talk to a different company or go somewhere else.

[00:13:36] And, you know, they, they won’t have a tolerance like they used to for substandard. So

[00:13:43]

Alec: we’re really good point. You know, that’s something I think we all kind of forget from time to time is that the consumer is so much different, whether it’s B2B B to C, it doesn’t matter, right? That those businesses that are looking are buying they’re buying habits.

[00:13:58] In many cases, mirror their consumer buying habits doesn’t make sense from a business to business, personal. But that’s the way they do it, because that’s what they know. There’s not there aren’t classes that you go to, to learn, to be the best corporate buyer in the world. Right. You’re you’re typically buying based on price and the solution based on those different departments.

[00:14:20] ABC was the best product C had the best reporting D really had great pricing. And then we would suggest we go with D because it had the best pricing and the buyer’s like, okay, then that’s what we do. And, you know, again, it just depends, but I think you’re right. It’s really very important for people to recognize.

[00:14:43] With it, there’s an information overload and you’ve gotta be able to get to brass tacks as a salesperson so that, you know, really what’s important and why they need it and when they need it so that you can make promises that you can. Over instead of over promising, under delivering, you can under promise from the start and really, really over-deliver.

[00:15:03] And that gets that, that goes into the other part of the buyers these days, these days, right, where they’re, they’re able to look online and see, my wife is a great example. Anything we, she buys online. She’ll read through like 40 different reviews. Me I’ll look at it. I see like a overall review, four stars.

[00:15:22] That’s good enough. I don’t care. It’s only 10 bucks. What do I care? My wife will spend an hour reading reviews on that same $10 item and say, well, we’re not buying this right. I’m going to keep looking for a different one. Well, I look at that, that that’s an hour of her life that she just lost. Right. But she looks at.

[00:15:39] That I’m going to make a more informed decision and that’s, what’s happened to the buyers just because they can look at this device and see everything right. They know, or they think they know. So what they’re getting and what they’re trying to be.

[00:15:57]

Jason: Yeah. And then when they interact with a salesperson it’s for something different than information, it’s for guidance.

[00:16:03] It’s for wisdom. So let’s talk about, so we talked about the efficiency, you know, where the technology fits in, obviously to getting people on the phone more, uh, you know, we talked about, uh, uh, what it needs to be done on the sales side. So training, helping them be more successful. What are you seeing now as trends?

[00:16:25] And is the trend for the followup process still the same that I have always seen, which is salesperson makes an attempt or two, and then that lead just dies off in the CRM or somewhere else. Like what trend are you seeing? And then what ways are you seeing companies who are successful maximizing their leads and data without abusing their leads and

[00:16:49]

Alec: data?

[00:16:51] Well, so I think that there are two different ways to look at this, right? The first is going to be in a B to C environment where your typical call center is just plugging away. And whether they’re selling medical devices or they’re trying to set an appointment for vacation ownership or timeshare, it doesn’t really matter.

[00:17:07] Those organizations are, are really trying to go at it from the well from, I think the starting point, it hasn’t really changed. Right. You’re buying a bank. You’re targeting, you’re going after it. And you’re making as many calls as possible, hoping to connect to people. But the followup with those people is it.

[00:17:27] I don’t believe that it’s always as good as it could be. Now. I know from some of our clients that do a bunch of stuff in medical device and pharmaceutical and things like that. That follow-up is actually critical to their business and how I’ve seen them use their follow-up is pretty fascinating. So one company, for example, they typically have about an eight step process.

[00:17:51] Now, I don’t know all of them. They do a lot of different things for their customers. They start with their first contact with the customer who’s calling in maybe for the first time. Typically it is for the first time and they go through a sales process where they’re really flushing out what the needs of the customer are and making certain that they can meet their needs.

[00:18:09] If they can’t, they tell them straight upfront, I can’t do everything. But they can almost always meet the customer’s needs for one, whether it’s a pharmaceutical product or a C-PAP or something like that. But then they get in deeper about like, tell me about habits, tell me about what you’re doing. And they build trust and confidence with the people after that initial call.

[00:18:31] And maybe typically it’s an initial sale cause their salespeople are pretty strong. The next step is a followup call by that same agent the next day to say, Hey, I just wanted to thank you for your time. And it’s a simple thing. And most of the time they just get a voicemail. But the fact that they’re following up and just saying, I just wanted to thank then once everything is shipped, they make another call saying, Hey, your C-PAP stuff has shipped.

[00:18:57] I wanted to make sure you knew here’s, what’s going to be in the box. Here’s what you can expect. It’s still set to be delivered on ABC day. Then the day that it’s delivered, the same rep is calling back earlier in the day to make sure that they know it’s going to be delivered. And the reason that they’ve set all these up is because they found that while the delivery has happened, sometimes the people are really home-bound and they don’t go.

[00:19:22] Side very often. And that a lot of these, the delivery, people don’t even ring a doorbell anymore. Right. An Amazon truck will pop up, drop it off. We’ve well, that’s great if you’re mobile, that PR guy or gal, but if you’re not, if you’re like pretty well home bound and can barely meet. It’s not really helpful, right?

[00:19:42] The ups driver or the FedEx driver will typically knock or ring a bell, Amazon type drivers and delivery like that. Won’t always, so they realized like it’s better to be on top of it and make sure their customers are taken care of and they go above and beyond and constantly do follow up. How did it, how is it working like about three weeks in and then about a month and a half in, is everything still working?

[00:20:05] So it’s those kinds of consistent follow-up. They keep their, like their customers don’t leave them and you can see why, you know, why, you know what you’re going to get. And yeah, they may pay a little bit more for the, for the product, but they’re treated with just gold plated gloves, then it’s a great thing.

[00:20:25] And then I’ve heard of other customers that are literally turning bird. Right. And you know, if, if I’m selling some widget that you’re only using one time. Okay. Who cares? But if I really want to build a long-term relationship and I’m doing a business to consumer platform where I’m trying to build a brand, I need to have that follow-up and it could be as simple as sending out a text.

[00:20:50] No, during the phone call to say, Hey, I just want to confirm your cell phone number so I can reach you. Should I meet too about your shipment? Right. Little things like that can make a huge deal. And a lot of companies do it, but quite a few don’t. And I know of one customer that they’re losing clients because they’ve, they’ve kind of maintained.

[00:21:12] I guess lazy is the best way to put it. They’ve been lazy about it. They haven’t wanted to upgrade or update the way that they do things. They don’t want to send out emails. They don’t want to give their agents any authority to be able to send out emails in their case. They just recently decided to even give email accounts and extensions to their rep.

[00:21:32] They just don’t trust their people and you know, that is going to hurt them and their competitors are taking advantage. They’re eating their lunch and it happens right in a business to business scenario. The, the follow-up that, that I see from, you know, people that I’m working with or trying to work with.

[00:21:54] I w my team is consistently chasing however, customers aren’t really, you know, too open about getting back to you. And a lot of this goes back to that consumer mentality as a buyer, right? So I’m looking at it from the. I’m going to buy a car, but I don’t want to talk to that car salesman ever again. You took two hours of my life and people still equate any business to business relationships sometimes in the same way.

[00:22:21] Like, ah, God, I don’t want to talk to that guy. Call shaper again. He calls me every four days he leaves me a voicemail and then he sends an email like right afterwards, and then he texts me hatch, leave me alone. Well, most of us would, if you said I’m just not going to buy from you and I’m not in. I mean, it it’s as simple as that, but people are, have that mentality, like a car dealer where they, they’re almost afraid of the salesperson.

[00:22:48] And I noticed that that happens with us from time to time. I mean, my team is closing in about 30 to 35% of all deal, all leads that we get. But I know from past experience and the tech. When I had teams of a hundred, 150 people, their biggest struggle is salespeople was getting someone to respond at all right.

[00:23:10] They could make 150 phone calls in a day and get not a single belie person, but they could send 400 emails and get 10 responses. And the bad news for, for me as sales leader is too many of those reps were like, well, why should I even call people in. Well, because they’re going to pick up eventually found and you’ve been sending emails, you’re getting responses, follow that email up with an email and then call them the next day and then call them and call them and call them.

[00:23:40] And then change the days that you’re calling them and change the times of you’re calling, you know, it just it’s, it’s patience, it’s persistence. And it’s being consistent with your methodology and. It really isn’t rocket science, right? It’s just a matter of going after it and knowing what you want and not giving up until you.

[00:23:59] Um, you know, I had one of my greatest sales leaders that I ever worked for. He’s the one that taught me the can’t never could, but he also, he also had this expression that, you know, if you want to win, you got to lose a lot first and every loss get you closer to a win. Now what’s the worst thing that can happen to you at the end of the day, if you had heard no all day, really?

[00:24:25] That, that the word that is the worst thing. Yeah. The best thing about hearing that all day is that you just turn the odds in your favor for getting a yes tomorrow. So people forget that and they forget that there is this, you know, the law of averages and numbers that play into this. And, you know, people get discouraged too easily.

[00:24:43] Life has become so easy for us, uh, in the west that we sometimes forget, you know, you and I were talking earlier about first world problems, right. Having too many clothes and too much stuff, total first world problems. Another first world problem is that we’ve gotten complacent and lazy about just working hard and being diligent.

[00:25:06] That’s why immigrants do so great when they get here because they had to work hard to get here. Now they see how lazy people are and that some people can still get ahead. So. It’s a wonderful thing. When you get people that just, all they want to do is put their head down and work hard and they will find a way and they always do.

[00:25:26] Right. You know, what is the story of the ant in the grasshopper where the aunt is working? I think it’s, the aunt is working furiously, saving stuff all year and the grasshoppers playing. It might be the opposite. But winter comes and one of them doesn’t have any food and comes to the, the other one you say, Hey, can you, can you help me out?

[00:25:45] You know, the other one goes, no, man. I’ve been working like crazy all year to provide for myself. And I think that too many people who’ve gotten that, that first world problem of, uh, I can find something. I can do something else. This doesn’t matter whether you win. Right. And I think that when it comes to businesses, Business leaders have let that happen.

[00:26:05] And they got complacent and they’re not constantly working and finding a new way. I do know that too many organizations and leaders don’t focus on developing their people. They focus so much on, well, this, this process, this process, this way that we do at follow the process and input stuff into the CRM and yada yada yada putting stuff in a CRM, doesn’t make.

[00:26:32] Right. It never has. And never will. It’s important to document things and keep track of stuff, but it ain’t all that important. What’s important is being on the phone and talking to people and writing really powerful emails to get people’s attention and following up and making sure that you don’t forget about people.

[00:26:47] And I think the too many businesses forget about the development and training of their people to. Because, you know, there’s a thing now that I’m living back in new England, after being in Colorado in the west for so long, there are a lot of like swamps. And the thing about swamps is, you know, there’s, there’s very little water, fresh water coming in and the water usually doesn’t leave these things.

[00:27:11] So all of these swamps end up having Lily pads grow in algae and they’re really disgusting. So there’s just, there’s a nice, fresh water coming in, but it gets into the pond and the pond is disgusting. And you’re probably wondering where the hell is he going with this? Well, that’s what happens to businesses, right?

[00:27:29] You get these people that are super excited and enthusiastic coming in there, the fresh water coming into that pond. And then they get into the pond. It’s so overrun with algae and disgusting, garbage and goo from the organization that hasn’t decided to be able to change. And all the organization that needs to do in the case of that pond is open addiction on the other side, so that the water can flow through and things won’t grow and be nasty.

[00:27:56] And what that means is yet. There are some people that need to be let go, but there needs to also be a flow of ideas in and out. Good ideas coming in and bad ideas that are the past leaving too. And there’s not a lot of that in too many businesses, right? You get these small mid-sized businesses where Jimmy at the top just says, boo, and should jump.

[00:28:17] But that’s not really how you’re going to make a long-term successful business. And again, the training and development of people is so critical and I just don’t see it happening. Like it should.

[00:28:28]

Jason: Yeah, and I think. That is so important because obviously there’s a lot of companies who want to bring in technology and sales enablement tools to essentially babysit their kids for them.

[00:28:40] And tools and technology are important, a certain level. That’s the business that you’re in, there’s things to weigh, like you said, early on about making it efficient and effective, but we still need the people. And I think where you said how people just don’t do their follow-ups are not putting in the effort.

[00:28:56] And there’s the people who do, and the people that are. I think that’s historically been my experience at the challenge of any organization that’s providing any kinds of leads or data is I’ve literally seen salespeople sit with their feet up, waiting for the next inbound lead or phone call instead of putting in the efforts to.

[00:29:15] Reach out to their other ones or work harder or be more effective at the conversations they’re having. And it’s always that delicate balance. I mean, you want to provide people the best opportunities, the best pitches possible to hit, uh, at the same time, not spoiling them by giving them too much. And so then there’s that balance.

[00:29:34] So. Obviously, we want to have good people. People who are working hard, they know what they need to do. They’re planting seeds and they’re, they’re putting in the effort, like you said, we’ve got the technology around them. Let’s shift a little bit and look at what’s currently going on in the world. And one of the things, one of the projects that you and I did together was we co-hosted a paid workshop and it was for sales executives for sales leaders who were looking at and dealing with how do they effectively leave and run a hybrid.

[00:30:10] Sales environment. I mean, prior to the pandemic happening, I know from everybody I’ve ever seen or spoken with that, it was. An unfathomable to have a call center or a sales team that worked from home, they had to be in the office. You had to be able to look at them, walk up and down the aisles, answer their questions, you know, do whatever, right?

[00:30:32] Managing micromanaging, leading something like that. You needed everyone in place and or there’s the benefit of everyone being in one place because they can share ideas. There’s the energy, there’s the overhearing. What worked for this person? Let me try that on my phone call. Like there’s a lot of positives with it as well.

[00:30:49] Pandemic happens. Everyone gets scattered. They don’t have a choice. Some are still there. Some are back to work. Then there’s this messy hybrid, right? Like work from home is challenge. Work in the office could be challenging. And then you’ve got people in hybrid, which sometimes they’re at home sometimes at work.

[00:31:04] Where are your leaders? Where should your managers be? When do they work from home? Should they be in the office and all of that since that time, when we did that workshop earlier this year, what have you seen in the work from home hybrid in the office? Just kind of messy spectrum that companies are dealing

[00:31:23]

Alec: with.

[00:31:23] And I think I, you know, I think a lot of companies were desperate to get back to normal quote unquote, by having people come back into the office. Um, I know quite a few did, uh, just they, they just pulled the bandaid off and said, come on back in. Um, that hasn’t worked too well for a lot of. Right. And so they, they’re kind of working with a hybrid now, and most of those that are doing a hybrid or doing a, you come into the office three days in your home today.

[00:31:52] And they, you work with your manager to kind of determine what are those days that you’re in the office versus when you’re in home. But there’s a minimum number of people that have to be in the office every day. And it’s from, you know, my experience with the couple of companies that are doing it that way it’s working pretty well because the three days in the office gives people a chance to have the comradery back there’s face-to-face, they, they can have fun.

[00:32:17] But they, this one company I know of, they would’ve gone out of their way by offering really big spiffs for people that make sales in the office and then good spiffs when you’re at home making a sale, but not like if you’re in the office, so what’s happened. And this is the downside to it is that people are trying to close more deals in the office.

[00:32:41] Then when they’re at home, just cause there’s more money on it, is that what they’re doing? Well, in some cases, yes. But you know the thing about that and this, this company, and it’s hard for them to sandbag deals because it’s just the way that businesses, but they do, you know, of course they do because there’s more money in it, but it’s working generally pretty well for them because what they’ve done is created enthusiasm about being in the office.

[00:33:10] But also a feeling of, Hey, we’re not going to push you away from working from home. We actually would love it. If you work from home a couple of days a week, um, they do have some people that have kind of created a lifestyle with their kids and stuff that they need to be home. More than three days or two days a week.

[00:33:29] So some of them may need to be home four days a week that this company is working with them because they don’t want to lose their good people, but they are requiring that you got to come in at least one day of the week for no matter what. And it may just be for team meetings for, you know, team building activities that may be, you know, that you’ve whatever they just want.

[00:33:51] They want people to see each other and to work with each other. Which is a great thing. And in the call center industry, you know, we know how hard that is when you’re used to being in, whether it’s a giant call center or just a little, you know, call center with 10 agents where people are walking around and run it around and they’re on the phone and they’re standing at their desk and they’re up and down and they’ve got the emotions going and ringing a bell when you close a deal, et cetera, like all those cool things that happen.

[00:34:21] I kind of, they’re the kind of things that we all miss a little bit, even though. We didn’t want to say we missed it. Right. I know of other there’s one business to business company that I used to work for a number of years ago, and they were getting ready to come back full time until the CEO said, well, let me actually do a poll of the organization and see who actually wants to come back to the office.

[00:34:46] And probably 40%. I don’t remember the exact number of that 40% really wanted to come to. The other 60 where like, no, no, no, no. I don’t want to go back. I mean, I don’t mind coming in once in a while, but I don’t want to be forced to come back full time. And so that company is created kind of a unique hybrid work environment, but they’ve also found that I think something like five or six of their employees have sold their homes, bought RVs and work on the.

[00:35:16] Huh. So what are you going to do with those people? These are great employees like sales, engineers, and developers. Are you going to tell a developer that’s been digging on a camper and having his wifi on a satellite phone for so that you can work anywhere. You’re going to tell him now that yeah, Billy, you got to come back in and sit in a cube again.

[00:35:38] That’s not going to work. You’re going to lose that guy. Right. So, you know, there’s a lot of that going on, but I think. We’re going to find that it’s going to go back to kind of a 50, 50, right? I don’t think sales, um, salespeople are going to be, it’s going to be really hard to get, especially if it’s any type of a field sales role where you’re on the phone five days of the week, but mostly that’s on a cell phone while you’re on the road.

[00:36:07] Right. And then you’ve got the inside sales folks that are pounding, you know, 200, 400,000 calls a day. They’re more likely to be the ones that are getting dragged back into the office. Um, those field, those road warriors, probably won’t and the call centers that are doing customer service, quite frankly.

[00:36:28] Why wouldn’t you let people work from home if they’re doing what they need to do? Right. I mean, in a lot of cases, that’s a real efficient way to be, and you can have more people doing more and have really flexible schedules with people that are working from home. There’s some huge benefits to just the work from home and, you know, giving someone that has, you know, three kids and can’t get daycare.

[00:36:53] The opportunity to work from say 6:00 PM. When his or her spouse or partner gets home, they can work from like six till midnight. And then they get to sleep for midnight to seven or something when they got to take care of the kids in the morning. You know, there are a lot of, there are a lot of options for companies to get creative, to keep the best employees and not worry about if you’re going to have to lose some, not so great employees.

[00:37:21]

Jason: Well, and I, I think the real key with that is, is companies who can do that successfully a have a corporate culture. That’s strong where people understand why they’re working for that company and what the mission and vision and the core values are and they’re aligned. Uh, and then also the company is very clear on the KPIs and the metrics for success for each individual role.

[00:37:46] And that person is working towards those key metrics. Um, that way, whether they’re in the cubicle and you can stare at them or they’re at home and you have less visibility. If they’re getting it done and they’re achieving those metrics, it’s then they’re successful. And again, the right people who are right fit for the company, whether they’re at home or in the office.

[00:38:09] Could be managed the same way and led the same way now, of course, there’s the part you said where there’s some people they want to be around others. They really want to be in some people, they either don’t need that or their priorities are different other ways, but they will get it done either way. And I think, you know, kind of going to something you’ve said a few times throughout our conversation, We’re not going back.

[00:38:32] There’s no old ways. Like all companies are not going to all go back and then everyone’s going to be in an office. There will be some variation. And I think one of the things that companies need to keep in mind is. Obviously you have to have the right culture and then the right metrics. But understand if you draw the line in the sand and make people come back, if they don’t want to, they will find another job that is desperate to hire somebody and who is going to let them work from home.

[00:38:59] Right. So you just got to understand what happens. You draw that line, you know, what, what are people going to decide? Yeah.

[00:39:07]

Alec: Well, most of it, you know, you mentioned a lot of things around company culture. Trust is going to be really, really critical. Right? You gotta have people that you can trust from a leadership standpoint.

[00:39:19] So I know that Matt, when he is at home is working just as hard as he would be in the office. And quite frankly, he probably has a way better at it. Then he did when he was in the office. Cause then, you know, he had someone come and tell him that his deal fell through and now we’re clawing back his commission.

[00:39:39] And so Matt’s all ticked off about all. Yeah, but Matt said home mats, Matt, we’ll get over it a little bit easier and Matt’s not going to storm through the office being angry, like going to his boss, what the heck is going on and creating havoc for other people. He’s going to call his boss and give his boss heck what’s going on.

[00:39:57] So there’s some, there are some ways that it can really, uh, that, that trust factor can really work in everybody’s.

[00:40:06]

Jason: Well, and I think to tie it back here, as we finish up is with the technology piece, right? So again, wanting and having humans do what companies need humans to do, right. Which is to interact with other humans, whether they’re prospective customers or actual paying customers, you need that.

[00:40:26] And so you need. Lead them effectively and ensure that everyone is on the right bus, going in the right direction for the right reasons and then bring in the technology and everything else to facilitate it. Because fundamentally going from I can walk out and look at you and if you’re not making enough calls, I can come over there and see it.

[00:40:46] Or I can crank something up or down to you’re at home. How do I monitor that? How do I ensure. The machine is running without any visibility, more on autopilot. That’s where the technology and the efficiency comes in. You mentioned, you know, potentially being effective with less people, which is one avenue.

[00:41:03] One is technology. The things that we talked about to help companies just be as effective with the people they have no matter where those people are. And I, and I think that’s the key. So for people listening or watching this, they want to reach out to you. I know that you’re very active on LinkedIn. So Alec, Alec Thompson on, uh, LinkedIn also call shaper has a business page on LinkedIn.

[00:41:26] People want to check out the website, call shape. Dot com. So you’ve got that there. I know you guys also have YouTube videos and things on that. What other ways, if somebody is listening or watching this, they want to either find out more or something new or interesting coming up that, uh, you know, they may want to find out more.

[00:41:46]

Alec: Well, if any way, if you’re, if anybody’s going to be, at least gone, hit us up at our booth, I think it’s booth 5 24. It’s going to be a great time. We’re launching that new product that I mentioned earlier, the, uh, uh, caller ID autopilot to kind of take over, um, the, the manual side of dealing with numbers that have been marked as spam and being able to flip those out automatically for you.

[00:42:07] So, uh, it’s pretty slick product, and it’s going to make a huge difference for a lot of our customers. So. That’s something cool. And then of course leads gone, but you know, you can always come to our website called dot com. You can give us a call two at (888) 276-1370. Happy to help with anything. And quite frankly, even if it’s just, Hey, I have a question, you know, we’ll help you.

[00:42:31] That’s one of the cool things. And what’s one of our differentiators as an organization. We do just like to answer questions too, even if it’s not about our product. So we’re more than willing to help because my prop, my, uh, philosophy is if I can earn your business today, maybe I can earn it tomorrow. So

[00:42:49]

Jason: that’s awesome.

[00:42:50] I love it, Alex. Thanks for coming on the show and sharing all this.

[00:42:55]

Alec: Right on. Thank you, Jason. It’s been a blast as always. It’s fun to just sit and talk with you.