Second Breakfast with Cam & Maggie

Discussion of The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring [Extended Edition]

We're finally here! Join Cam and Maggie for a spirited discussion of the first half (roughly) of the Fellowship movie (For those following along at home, the first hour and twenty-four minutes). We watched everything through what we've read in the book, and boy is Viggo Mortensen a total babe. He is more Aragorn than the book Aragorn. Stunning! We break down all the changes from the book and their effects on the story. This movie is an interpretation of Tolkien's work, but we argue that its writers are also wonderful editors of the source text. They maintain and even occasionally improve the pacing / dramatic stakes of Fellowship. There's not a single whiff of Tom Bombadil! Gandalf is absolved of his war crimes! We actually cut away from the hobbits to check in on Gandalf – and the Black Riders! – and Saruman! And we even get Arwen early, taking the place of poor Zinfandel. It's a humdinger of a movie, and we measure it against the book and all of our long-running funky theories about color palettes and narrators.

In our Second Breakfast, we do a quick retrospective on Book One of Fellowship, now that we're truly done with it. Were we satisfied? Was it a horror movie? If we were just reading this book for fun, would we want to keep reading? Maggie ends with a pretty striking take on the story so far, and then Cam compliments The Mandalorian and asks if Kylo Ren is Snape.

Have an observation, comment or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected]

Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Twelve

Join Cam and Maggie for the grand finale of Fellowship Book One! This chapter has a truly blockbuster ending, and we dig through all the fascinating, provocative details hidden within the confrontation with all nine (!) Black Riders. Strider's telepathy continues to unsettle Cam, and he's got an intriguing follow-up to last week's conversation about free will and Frodo's subservience to the Ring. We analyze the color palette of this chapter – startlingly grey – and offer a few different theories about what that color means in Middle-earth. (This part of the discussion totally changed how Cam thinks about Frodo!) Maggie tracks the echoes of Gandalf through these pages and we wonder more than once if he has quietly returned to the fellowship (the birds! the mysterious figure in white! the secret markings!) and we work together, throughout the episode, to make sense of Frodo's strange, corrosive, "evil" wound.

In our Second Breakfast segment, we're doing a Best of 2020 discussion! Cam and Maggie share their top three (in no particular order) movies, tv shows, albums, books, games, podcasts, and comedy specials from this terrible year. But quarantine meant that we caught up on a ton of older works of art this year too – so we start by sharing our Best Discoveries of 2020. Classic horror movies abound – but there are some surprises in there too. No Winnie the Pooh, sadly. We end the show by each announcing our favorite works of art this year in any category.

Thank you so much for your support this year, and we'll be back next week with the first half of the Fellowship movie. Obviously, I mean the extended edition. Come on.

Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected]

Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Eleven

Join Cam and Maggie for a holiday extravaganza? I don't know. We've got a fun little seasonal skit at the start of the episode. Maggie's secret talent is her Linus impression – but hey, the episode is good too! Strider continues to ruthlessly alpha Frodo, and this time he throws some shade at Gandalf too. This is the most cinematic chapter we've ever read – tons of combat, multiple cuts away from the hobbits, and magic absolutely everywhere. Cam breaks down the explosive finale between Frodo and the Black Riders and its severe implications for LOTR's navigation of free will and God. His whole opinion on the Ring has changed, and Maggie is totally vindicated just thrilled! They work together to break down the image of fire as enlightenment and Tolkien's statements about knowledge / the value of the written word in Middle-earth. There are also some fun new developments regarding Gandalf's spy army of birds, a few unexpected echoes of the long absent Bilbo Baggins, Esquire., and a healthy dollop of slasher references. Fellowship is and remains a horror movie.

In our Second Breakfast segment, Maggie draws some alarming parallels between the fantasy genre and romance stories! We discuss the value of low-brow entertainment v. High Brow Art and the stupidity of value judgments and "guilty pleasures" – all while Maggie desperately tries to avoid actually naming the romance books she's been reading. Cam vehemently defends The Lake House and appears to suggest that the Regency era and medieval times are the same thing.

Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected]

Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Nine

Join Cam and Maggie for another doozie of a chapter. We're both head over heels in love with Strider, and more convinced than ever that this book is just Prisoner of Azkaban. Dementors were one thing, and prophecies too, but now Strider is exactly the same sort of cool uncle as Sirius Black was! (rip) This chapter is all about Maggie's seen and unseen theory. The only image is fire and darkness, and it all gets weaponized into a beautiful power struggle between Strider and Frodo – you can guess whose side we're on there. Cam continues to argue for Aragorn's telepathy powers and about halfway through the episode, ole Rattlesnake Maggie whips out a theory about narrators that could change our entire reading of LOTR. Gandalf returns to the story, but Maggie's theory puts him in his place and moves right along. She breaks down the funky little poem included at the end of Gandalf's letter and Cam does his level best to discuss runes. We also wonder if Frodo is classist and there's some very serious mustache discussion at the start of the episode.

In our Second Breakfast segment, Cam lays out a bunch of additional information about the 4K LOTR editions, and we discuss the importance and impact of "color grading" in a visual medium like movies. With this new information, we tackle subjects like visual consistency and the power of special effects. This spirals into debates about paperback v. hardcover, matte v. glossy, and all the other incredibly important ephemeral details that shape our consumption of stories before we read the first word. Reference points include True Detective, The Haunting of Hill House, and the work of The White Stripes.

Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected]

Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Nine

Join Cam and Maggie for the best chapter we've read in a Month! The Saga of Tommy Dabomba is officially over, and Tolkien replaces him with the suave and dangerous Strider. Don't worry, we mostly pretend not to know his real name. Maggie calls this chapter a crossroads, and that label becomes the basis for our discussion. Merry and Pippin return to their original supporting roles, the strong narration of The Hobbit comes roaring back, and we're poked and prodded with all sorts of magical callbacks and hype. Cam breaks down Strider's masterful introduction – he feels immediately familiar, but still carries some of the magic and danger of the unknown world beyond the Shire. Maggie analyzes Frodo's big song – a full two pages of the chapter – and we work together to dissect the pointed Frodo v. Bilbo comparisons in this scene. Cam even spots some interesting echoes of Tom, and we rejoice that he's finally in our rear-view mirror. Let's hope he stays there, so we can keep an eye on him. I haven't forgotten about the bathtubs and the frolicking.

In our Second Breakfast segment, Cam tries to figure out what happens when fantasy authors settle into their magical worlds. Using Harry Potter as a comparison, we look for complications, tests, and questions that can only be explored in sequels – once everyone is familiar with the rules. Expect lots of Prisoner of Azkaban and some scattered August Rush bashing throughout the episode. You know what? I think we totally forgot to talk about horror movies this time. Happy holidays.

Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected]

Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Eight

Join Cam and Maggie for (hopefully) the last ever appearance of Tom Bombadil. Oh no wait, Frodo summons him back the second we get rid of him. We struggle through another chapter of nonsense words and third person singing, but this time it is punctuated by bits of action, intriguing symbolism, and – Dementors? Luckily, we just rewatched Prisoner of Azkaban, so we're in a good position to catch the thirty thousand parallels between this chapter and that book. Oh boy. Cam finds some more evidence that Goldberry is a ghost and Maggie breaks down some of the surreal nature description that Tolkien does here while constantly referencing The Evil Dead (lots of fog and severed arms!) We also work through the many Tom / Gandalf comparisons and try to identify the real Daddy of Middle-earth. Cam stretches himself and attempts to analyze a dream, and he even manages to go a whole episode without mentioning Winnie the Pooh. The conversation grinds to a halt so we can appreciate Tom's wonderful, portly old horse – Fatty Lumpkin. And then finally, finally, the chapter ends with the journey truly beginning. We celebrate and do some post-mortem on the three-chapter Tom Bombadil saga that derailed the entire book's sense of momentum and urgency. Does Tom redeem himself with this appearance?

In our Second Breakfast segment, Cam leads us on a jolly philosophical excursion inspired by the newly released 4K versions of The Lord of the Rings. Topics include: when is art finished? When should we stop paying attention to revisions? What is the definitive version of a work of art? We work through these ideas with unkind references to Star Wars, as well as more charitable comments about Saw, It, The Hateful Eight, and The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected]

Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Seven

Join Cam and Maggie in this unfortunate Thanksgiving extravaganza. This whole chapter is spent trapped in a "penthouse" with unnerving Tolkien supervillain Tommy Dabomba. He really bounces off the walls this time in a surreal assault of singing, third person references, troubling revelations, intriguing red flag plot developments, and unending references to colors and trees. Yeah, there's a lot of dung to sift through this week – the man enters the room solely to compliment his wife's girdle. Because it's a holiday, Cam decides to commit to the bit and fully argue that Fellowship is a horror book. He leads a breakdown of all the chapter's interesting developments, which concern magic in Middle-earth, the magical pecking order of this world, and Tom's true identity. We get some more symbolic dreams to break down too, and Maggie wonders if any of this is really happening. Maybe Tom is dead, or a ghost, or fake – or just boring.

For our Second Breakfast segment, we break down the relationship between coincidences and storytelling. To illustrate this point, we say some mean things about August Rush and Cam asks Maggie lots of leading questions. Why do they feel so artificial and disappointing? Are coincidences always lazy writing? Does fantasy get a free pass by hiding being the thin, vague veil of "magic"? All these topics are more are explored in this Tom Bombadil Blowout.

Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected]

Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Six

Join Maggie and Cam in their irrational hatred and fear of Tom Bombadil. He shows up at just the right time and offers our heroes exactly what they need. It's suspicious – and he speaks in nonsense words and sings about himself in third person. Oh and he might be a wizard, whose convenient little house in the clearing of an evil wood gives Cam some strong Hansel and Gretel vibes. Horrifying. In this episode, we break down all of our suspicions about Tom. We also unpack the numerous similarities between this chapter and the spooky journey through Mirkwood in The Hobbit. That adventure was a highlight of Bilbo's story for us, but this chapter might be the first dud in The Lord of the Rings. We have a great time investigating all the expectations and echoes that led to our mutual disappointment. This episode gets a little silly.

In our Second Breakfast segment, Cam tries to figure out why some stories can thrill us while being riddled with callbacks and echoes and limiting their scope to just a few characters and locations. To illustrate this point, we talk about a few plotlines on The Office. These comparisons serve to further our main discussion about why Mirkwood works better than the Old Forest, but Cam also develops a theory about "roads less travelled" in storytelling, and the value of teasing out multiple endings. Maggie reflects on this chapter's surrealism by comparing it to another freaky and unpredictable story she's been enjoying lately, In the House in the Dark of the Woods by Laird Hunt. This chapter was a bit of a stinker for us, but don't worry – the episode is still fun! Plus, we get more of Terrifying Tom next week. Oh joy.

Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected]

Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Five

Join Maggie and Cam for a discussion of Tolkien's restraint and provocations. This chapter is full of callbacks and echoes from The Hobbit, but it also continues to pivot away from many of the patterns and priorities established by that earlier story. Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin slow down and catch their breath following their latest escape from the Black Riders, and in their downtime, we learn a lot more about their group dynamics and decision-making hierarchy. We discuss Tolkien's growing interest in friendship and loyalty, Frodo's expectations of his companions, and what he is quietly saying about these hobbits when he has them sing a "bath-song" praising Hot Water. This chapter is less about near-death experiences than it is a series of character revelations, and we dig through each one like a pair of truffle pigs hunting for lunch. In conversation, we make new sense of Frodo's surreal, symbolic dream at the end of the chapter, and even manage to make some positive comparisons to other fantasy works. There are also, of course, many more horror references and another visit from Pooh.

In our Second Breakfast segment, Maggie leads a discussion about graphic novels that extends into adaptation, visual learning, and our own attention spans, as well as our preferences across artistic mediums. Yeah, I know it is technically "media" but that is a different word that means something else, and language is fake.

Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected]

Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod

Discussion of The Fellowship of the Ring, Chapter Four

Join Maggie and Cam as they attempt to outrun the Black Riders, Old Maggot's dogs, and updates about the election. This chapter is a sneaky one – lots of character development and atmospheric work, but no huge plot revelations. We discuss all of Tolkien's quiet declarations here, from the changing nature of danger in Middle-earth to the totally restructured "episodic" nature of this adventure. Echoes and pivots persist throughout this chapter. Gandalf is absent, for the first time, but he might still be pulling the strings. All of the hobbits' allies in this chapter, from the elves to the farmer, have loose ties to the wizard and his magic. We investigate all of these little provocations while dropping even more references to Midsommar, The Evil Dead, and Halloween. We even spot a "literary jump scare," and Cam continues to insist that Fellowship is a horror movie. Maggie finds everything she loved about Bilbo split between our new hobbits – Frodo, Sam, and Pippin – and we find some more uncomfortable parallels with elements of Harry Potter.

In our Second Breakfast segment, Cam shares some excerpts from a letter Tolkien wrote to W.H. Auden. Tolkien comments on some of our oldest debates about "children's stories" and the Ring, as well as providing some fascinating insight into the process of expanding the world of The Hobbit and beginning Fellowship.

Have an observation, comment, or theory on this episode? Email us at [email protected]

Follow us on Instagram @secondbreakfastpod