Seek Safely

Jean and Glenn welcome Dr. Christine Whelan, SEEK Safely’s newest Board member, to the SEEK Safely podcast in this first of two episodes. 

Dr. Christine is an author, professor and speaker, and one of the few researchers who has specifically looked into the self-help/advice industry. She is also perhaps the only person whose personal library of self-help books rivals that of Dr. Glenn! But more importantly, through her research Dr. Whelan has meaningful insights to share about how we consume self-help, how the self-help industry attempts to reach us, and how the industry has changed over the years. 

In this episode, we talk about how we first connected with Dr. Christine following the Sedona tragedy and how, in her, we found someone who understood the wide reach of self-help and the broader context of the sweat lodge deaths. We also discuss the cultural pervasiveness of self-help, how to be a best-selling author-guru, and when self-help leaders start to go off in a potentially dangerous direction. 

Watch for Part 2 of this interview, in which we get into the current self-help landscape. 

About Dr. Whelan:

Dr. Whelan is a clinical professor in the School of Human Ecology at the University of Wisconsin – Madison, and director of MORE: Money, Relationships and Equality. She earned a masters and doctorate from the University of Oxford and has held teaching positions at the University of Pittsburgh, the University of Iowa and Princeton University. She has been published in The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post and The New York Times, among other national outlets. She has appeared live on television programs and radio programs across the nation. Read more about Dr. Whelan on her website. Connect with her on Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

Also mentioned in this episode: 

Dr. Christine’s article about Sedona for the Washington Post

About Dale Carnegie’s "How to Win Friends and Influence People" on Wikipedia

Learn more about SEEK Safely on our website

Follow SEEK on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook

Follow Dr. Glenn on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook

Read the memoir “This Sweet Life: how we lived after Kirby died” by Jean and her mom, Ginny Brown

Donate to support SEEK’s mission

To Contact SEEK email [email protected]

Jean and Glenn have an amazing opportunity to share with you! That’s right, we’re talking all about multi-level marketing! Why is the self-help podcast talking about MLMs? In this episode, the discussion specifically highlights the links and parallels between self-help and MLMs:

• how they share similar tactics to pull people in 
• the similar types of people that are targeted by MLMs and self-help
• how they use self-help tropes like the Law of Attraction to condition/gaslight their victims sales associates
• the shared history between self-help and MLMs
• the familiar faces from the self-help industry that cross over into the MLM industry

Indeed, the ways in which MLMs operate and even the way the whole industry is shaped is very similar to the self-help industry. So before you sign up to an MLM ~or~ a self-help program, learn about some of the ways these “opportunities” might not live up to their promises. 

Quoted in the episode:

from American Beauty: “In order to be successful, one must project an image of success at all times.”

Also mentioned in this Episode:

LuLaRich docu-series on Amazon Prime

John Oliver’s MLM segment

Robert L. Fitzpatrick, expert on home-based businesses

The Office clip

Steven Hassan’s BITE Model 

Penn and Teller Bullshit “Easy Money” episode

Learn more about SEEK Safely on our website

Follow SEEK on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook

Follow Dr. Glenn on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook

Read the memoir “This Sweet Life: how we lived after Kirby died” by Jean and her mom, Ginny Brown

Donate to support SEEK’s mission

To Contact SEEK email [email protected]

Despite its name, the Law of Attraction will come to you in your self-help journey, whether you’ve asked for it or not. It’s a big part of SEEK’s story, given that James Arthur Ray’s rise to fame came from his involvement with the self-help phenomenon of the early 2000’s, “The Secret.”

Jean and Dr. Glenn Patrick Doyle break down this enduring “law” in self-help thinking–where and when the concept has popped up in self-help history, as well as more broadly in philosophy, literature, and religious thought.

They cover what’s good in the concept, how it shifts around in popular conversation, and where it goes off the rails and can become more damaging.

Quotes mentioned:

“The greatest discovery of my generation is that a human being can alter his life by altering his attitude.”

• William James

“Men at some time are masters of their fates: The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves, that we are underlings. Might you become master of your fate through choice—no matter what the stars say?”

• William Shakespeare in “Julius Caesar”

Learn more about SEEK Safely on our website

Follow SEEK on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook

Follow Dr. Glenn on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook

Read the memoir “This Sweet Life: how we lived after Kirby died” by Jean and her mom, Ginny Brown

Donate to support SEEK’s mission

To Contact SEEK email [email protected]

Also mentioned in this episode:

Eva Collins Interview on the SEEK Safely Podcast

“Creative Visualization” by Shakti Gawain 

“The Power of Positive Thinking” Normal Vincent Peale

“The Science of Mind” by Earnest Holmes

“Agnes Collard’s Marriage of the Minds” in by Rachel Aviv in The New Yorker

The New Thought movement

Martin Seligman and positive psychology

“The Secret” by Rhonda Byrne

The SEEK Safely Podcast is back for a 2nd season!

Life’s been busy! Feedback for the podcast has been so encouraging, and we’re happy to be back! We’ve got some exciting discussions for you.

On this first episode, we touch base with what’s been happening in the self-help world in the last few months, what has come out of the first season for us, and what we hope to achieve with our second season. 

Some highlights of the upcoming season: 

• we’ll talk recurring themes in self-help, like the Law of Attraction
• we’ll meet our newest board member, Dr. Christine Whalen
• we’ll look into the history of self-help and talk about how this legacy influences the industry as we see it today
• we’ll look at the phenomenon of self-help sliding into other areas, like politics, fitness, health

We say it right in the show’s intro: our primary goal is to empower seekers to have safe and rewarding self-help experiences. We do this by examining what is going on in this industry–shady stuff to be aware of, pitfalls to avoid, and how to find the best resources for YOU. We are excited to keep this momentum going!

Learn more about SEEK Safely on our website

Follow SEEK on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook

Follow Dr. Glenn on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook

Read the memoir “This Sweet Life: how we lived after Kirby died” by Jean and her mom, Ginny Brown

Donate to support SEEK’s mission

To Contact SEEK email [email protected]

Also mentioned in this Episode:

Life 101 Series by Peter McWilliams

In this final episode of the SEEK Safely podcast’s first season, hosts Dr. Doyle and Jean share some of their lasting impressions from the previous episodes of the podcast. 

 Big themes that came through: 

• SEEK has gained many allies in this effort to scrutinize and improve the self-improvement industry
• Not all self-help is culty, but a lot of self-help does culty stuff
• There is still so much to unpack as we look at the industry and imagine a better future for seekers
• Podcasting is a great vehicle for SEEK’s message
• The NXIVM story is endlessly fascinating…

If you’d like to support SEEK as we start producing Season 2, go here. We will be back with more episodes in the New Year! In the meantime, stay in touch: leave a review, send a voice message, find us on socials, etc…

Also mentioned in this episode:

@whydontyousaysomething curated by Eva Collins

Jennifer French, cult recovery therapist 

August McLaughlin

Anne Peterson of iLumn8.Life

About NXIVM:

“The Vow" on HBO

A Little Bit Culty podcast

The Program by Toni Natalie

Don’t Call it a Cult by Sarah Berman

Learn more about SEEK Safely on their website

Follow SEEK on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook

Follow Dr. Glenn on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook

Read the memoir “This Sweet Life: how we lived after Kirby died” by Jean and her mom, Ginny Brown

Donate to support SEEK’s mission

To Contact SEEK email [email protected]

Anne Peterson has worked in and around the self-help industry for decades. Anne has designed and delivered programming for her own company as well as for some of the most prominent self-help gurus and one of the largest international self-development organizations in the world. 

Anne is hard at work to impact and improve this industry where she has spent so much time and, like us, sees so much potential. On this episode, Jean, Glenn, and Anne, chat about what a better self-help industry could look like: how to make space for the potential of this industry while building safeguards to help seekers avoid the kind of abuses that so many consumers and practitioners have experienced in the self-help world as it operates now.

(also, shout-out to Anne’s pup who was happily gnawing a bone in the background throughout our conversation ;)

A bit more about Anne:

Anne’s start in the world of making a difference for people may not look like others. From being a 16-year-old teen mom and starring with her son in an after school special and serving on the Washington State Steering Committee for School-Age Parenting, to designing and delivering practical and transformative inquiry based programs for thousands of people over a 20 year period, this became her focus.

After she became aware of the problematic design of group awareness programs and began to discover the red flags that point to a destructive cult and/or potential abuse in organizations, Anne is committed to provide safe environments for learning.

Known for bringing new ideas into reality, she has launched iLumn8.Life which is a gathering place bringing together life-long learners with the practitioners who offer personal & professional development that enhances and evolves the human experience. In an effort to ensure that each learner has a safe experience in their growth and development endeavors, all practitioners on the iLumn8.Life platform make the SEEK Safely Promise.

Also mentioned in this episode: 

SEEK Safely Promise

“Who is Wellness For?” by Fariha Roisin

Phoenix Rising

Definition of Love Bombing

Eva Collins Interview on the SEEK Safely Podcast

Jennifer French Interview on the SEEK Safely Podcast

“The Vow" on HBO

“Guru” podcast by Wondery

A Little Bit Culty podcast by Sarah Edmondson and Nippy Ames, NXIVM whistleblowers

Seduced on Starz

iLumn8.Life  

Learn more about SEEK Safely on their website

Follow SEEK on Instagram, Twitter, and

August McLaughlin is a nationally recognized health and sexuality journalist and host and producer of the podcast, Girl Boner Radio, which offers a spicy blend of personal stories, in-depth reporting and inspiration.

Dr. Glenn and Jean chat with August about mental health, seeking, and finding real, lasting empowerment. 

August shares her personal story of grappling with undiagnosed ADHD, an eating disorder, and the general challenges of adolescence and young adulthood that put her on the seeking path familiar to so many of us. August shares how she found a more authentic type of empowerment on her own terms, and how she has integrated SEEK Safely’s message into her own work. 

Learn more about August:

On her website

 “Girl Boner: The Good Girl’s Guide to Sexual Empowerment” by August McLaughlin”

“With Pleasure: Managing Trauma Triggers for More Vibrant Sex and Relationships” by August McLaughlin and Jamila Dawson, LMFT

Girl Boner Radio Podcast

On Instagram

Also mentioned:

Herbalife 

The Salty Droid

Jean on Girl Boner Radio

Learn more about SEEK Safely on their website

Follow SEEK on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook

Follow Dr. Glenn on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook

Read the memoir “This Sweet Life: how we lived after Kirby died” by Jean and her mom, Ginny Brown

Donate to support SEEK’s mission

To Contact SEEK email [email protected]

Jennifer French is a psychologist who focuses on helping victims of cultic abuse. She got into the field after her own experience with a cult group. She is also the creator and host of the Project Hope podcast.

In this second episode of two, Jean and Jennifer discuss this new era of cults, and Dr. Doyle pops in to share his thoughts!

They chat about: 

• The implications of social media for cult activity
• Legislation as the next phase of the fight against abusive self-help and cult abuse
• Advice for seekers to stay safe when seeking self-improvement

Browse Jennifer’s Website

Listen to the Project Hope Podcast

Also Mentioned: 

Red Flag Education

SEEK’s Self-help Consumer Protection bill in NY State

Learn more about SEEK Safely on their website

Follow SEEK on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook

Follow Dr. Glenn on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook

Read the memoir “This Sweet Life: how we lived after Kirby died” by Jean and her mom, Ginny Brown

Donate to support SEEK’s mission

To Contact SEEK email [email protected]

Jennifer French is a psychologist who focuses on helping victims of cultic abuse. She got into the field after her own experience with a cult group. She is also the creator and host of the Project Hope podcast. 

In this first episode of two, Jean and Jennifer discuss Jennifer’s experience and how it led her to undertake a Masters degree in Psychology of coercive control. 

They chat about: 

• how and why people get into abusive groups
• "cult hopping”
• why Jennifer signed the SEEK Safely Promise and how she implements it in her work
• how seekers can reclaim their own self-improvement experience, rather than giving the power over to a teacher, group, or program

Watch for Episode 2, where Jennifer and Jean discuss what’s happening in the new era of cults, with high control groups, wellness in social media, etc.

Browse Jennifer’s Website

Listen to the Project Hope Podcast

Learn about the SEEK Safely Promise
_____

Also Mentioned: 

Gillie Jenkinson, psychologist 

Red Flag Education

Alleged Abuses of Yogi Bhajan

“Enlighten Us” CNN documentary
_____

Learn more about SEEK Safely on their website

Follow SEEK on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook

Follow Dr. Glenn on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook

Read the memoir “This Sweet Life: how we lived after Kirby died” by Jean and her mom, Ginny Brown 

Donate to support SEEK’s mission

To Contact SEEK email [email protected]

Dr. Glenn and Jean share their thoughts about the first two episodes from Season Two of “The Vow," HBO’s docu-series detailing the public downfall of the cult NXIVM. The NXIVM story has been a big part of our collective education about cults. But on its surface, NXIVM was just another self-help organization offering leadership development courses to thousands of people throughout North America.

SEEK has followed and shared the NXIVM story for many reasons: 

• as another example of the type of “worst-case scenarios” that can happen to self-help consumers
• understanding how coercive control plays out in abusive self-improvement organizations
• observing how the legal system handles these types of crimes perpetrated by “self-improvement” organizations and leaders

Season Two of “The Vow” continues on HBO.

Also Mentioned in this Episode: 

• The Program by Toni Natalie
• About NLP from Wikipedia
• Don’t Call it a Cult by Sarah Berman
• A Little Bit Culty podcast by Sarah Edmondson and Nippy Ames, NXIVM whistleblowers
• SEEK’s Self-Help Consumer Protection Bill in NY State
• Escaping NXIVM Podcast by CBC
• Seduced on Starz

 Links:

• Learn more about SEEK Safely on their website
• Follow SEEK on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook
• Follow Dr. Glenn on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook
• Read the memoir “This Sweet Life: how we lived after Kirby died” by Jean and her mom, Ginny Brown
• Donate to support SEEK’s mission
• To Contact SEEK email [email protected]