Experts - we should listen to them, right? RIGHT? Well, maybe not all of them. That's what Hannah learned while talking to Dr Julia Shaw, a criminal psychologist and the host of new Radio 4 show Experts on Trial. Jen's been on the Zoom with Heather McCalden to talk about her genre-bending debut book, The Observable Universe, which is about losing both her parents to AIDS in the early '90s, and grief in the internet age. And in Rated or Dated, having not seen it as kids, what will Mickey and Hannah make of 1984's The NeverEnding Story?

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