Smart Talk

Prof. Jacinta Ruru talks with fellow Māori academics about being Māori in a university. A highlight of 2021's Dunedin Writers & Readers Festival.

Otago law professor Jacinta Ruru talks with fellow academics Renee Smith and Rawiri Tapiata about being Māori in a university.

A highlight of 2021's Dunedin Writers & Readers Festival.

Hear Prof. Jacinta Ruru, Renee Smith and Rawiri Tapiata in discussion with Marcus Akuhata-Brown

Two books on Māori leadership have been published recently: Ngā Kete Mātauranga - Māori scholars at the Research Interface and Te Kai a te Rangatira.

The first details the success stories of 24 Māori academics, exploring how they have worked to bring their mātauranga Māori (or Māori knowledge) into their respective fields of scholarship and teaching. It seeks to demonstrate how mātauranga Māori can enrich Western-dominated disciplines of knowledge in the research sector.

The second book, Te Kai a te Rangatira, widens the focus from the university to the community, containing 100 interviews with Māori people who have a track record of service, leadership and contribution.

Prof. Jacinta Ruru discusses the rationale for the book she co-edited: Ngā Kete Mātauranga - Māori scholars at the Research Interface.

Jacinta Ruru:

I think we had two audiences here. One was our Māori whanau. We really wanted to speak to tell a real story of celebration. Māori are succeeding in the university sector. Māori can dream to do whatever they wish to do in any discipline and can succeed there. So there was a real story of pride in who we are as Māori.

The other audience is our leaders across Aotearoa New Zealand and particularly those tertiary educational institution leaders. To call for that decolonisation,  the importance of being the collective, rather than the individual. We need our tertiary institutions, Aotearoa New Zealand leaders to really understand that.

Those Māori who are not in Māori studies, but out there in the disciplines - in the Wild West really (I'm talking about my own experience of 20 years alone in the law faculty - we're not enabled to work together in a collective way. We all talk about being lonely, isolated. We talk about our study. When you were studying, did you have any Māori teaching you? If you did it was probably one or two that came across you.

Jacinta Ruru:

And that's still happening today. We're having students coming into the tertiary sector that are not being taught by Māori. They could go through their whole degree and not read any Māori-authored work. So Māori work is not being prioritised in the curriculum. They're not hearing Māori ideas…

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Jared Savage and Steve Braunias explore the art of crime writing in Aotearoa. Rob Kidd chairs this highlight of 2021's Dunedin Writers & Readers Festival.

Three journalists experienced in true-crime writing - Jared Savage, Steve Braunias and Rob Kidd - discuss the ethical and practical issues of their craft.

Steve Braunias disagrees with what he describes as the "pointy-headed criticism" that it is intrinsically voyeuristic and exploitative, while Jared Savage talks about how door-knocking can unlock the pent-up desire of those affected by crime to tell their stories.

Both of them praise the success of the reporter Caroline Meng-Yee.

Listen to Jared Savage and Steve Braunias explore the art of crime writing in Aotearoa with Rob Kidd at the 2021 Dunedin Writers & Readers Festival:

Steve Braunias:

People do seem to be attracted to crime writing and crime stories. Netflix wouldn't exist without it. Newspapers wouldn't exist without it, really. And the reason we publish these stories and we write about them as journalists is that people like to read about them. I don't think that's a trivial or sordid exchange.

I think people like to read about crime stories not because it's a voyeuristic opportunity. There's a really disgraceful page online at Te Ara, the National Library encyclopedia of New Zealand, and it's written by some snob at Waikato University talking about media reporting of crime. It's a "voyeuristic pursuit, and the public should be ashamed for reading it."

I say, "No. I don't think the public should be ashamed for reading it." I think that we're attracted to crime stories in this country because we want to know what goes on in our community. I think there's a huge amount of empathy which goes on when we read these stories.

The standard for this would be two or three years ago with the really sad tragedy of Grace Millane. The story began when she went missing and her face was on the front page of every paper and the beginning of every news bulletin on TV: "Where is Grace?" Everyone in this country was just hoping like hell that it would be found and that she would be ok. Her body was found and it wasn't ok.

The way we felt about that was genuine sorrow and concern for her. And I think that carried over into the reading about her trial. The same reason people read true crime stories is the same reason we write about them. They have an emotional resonance and an emotional depth to them.

Robb Kidd:…

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Lynn Freeman talks with Becky Manawatu about her acclaimed debut novel Auē in this highlight of 2021's Dunedin Writers & Readers Festival.

Although New Zealand writer Becky Manawatu's first novel Auē received numerous awards, the experience of being a published writer, and a popular one at that, is something she's still coming to terms with.

Becky speaks to Lynn Freeman in front of a Dunedin Writers & Readers Festival audience.

Hear Becky Manawatu in conversation with Lynn Freeman, recorded in May 2021 at the Dunedin Writers & Readers Festival

Becky Manawatu:

I was flying to Tauranga. There was a woman beside me on a plane and she was reading my book. And it was the first time I saw that - someone who was not in my family reading it somewhere random. And I was like, "Oooooh!" My heart was going crazy, and then I was like, "Should I tell her?" (Laughs)

And then I said, "No. Don't tell her now because if she doesn't like the book it's a really long flight."

So I waited. I had my own book to read. But I couldn't concentrate, because I was trying to grab an idea of what her expression was like.

Lynn Freeman:

Make sure she wasn't speed reading?

Becky Manawatu:

Yes, the whole time. I did try and do a sneaky  but I didn't. I thought that was rude. So she was reading it, and we went to land, and she put the book down in her lap. And then, I was, like, "I'm going to tell her."

So I whispered, "I wrote that."

That's really what I did! And I had the mask on my face. And then I was, like, "Do you want me to prove it?"

And I did tell her I was having quite a good hair day on that day , because I wasn't on the day we were having the flight.

Yeah, that was really cool. I'd never seen anyone out in the world reading it, and I just couldn't believe that she was right beside me.

Lynn Freeman:

I remember watching the video of you when you won the Ockham Award (for Best New Novel). It was the first time they tried to use Zoom for the ceremony, just as we came out of lockdown. Your whole whanau were around you, and their faces just lit up. You were genuinely astonished, and your family were just so happy for you.

Becky Manawatu:

Yeah, they were. It was actually quite a hilarious scene. If you had seen a minute before that, my Dad was sat in one chair. My husband was actually further away from me. And so they announced it. And my husband leaps out of the chair, and he's like, "Yeah!" Dad's already stood up ready to come over for the big hug, as he should get the first hug. He's my Dad. (Laughs)…

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The emerging author HG Parry writes complex and engaging fantasy novels. She talks to Lynn Freeman about reinventing the 18th century in this highlight of 2021's Dunedin Writers Festival.

Wellington author HG Parry writes complex and engaging fantasy novels.

She talks to Lynn Freeman about reinventing the French Revolution in her novel A Declaration of the Rights of Magicians.

Listen to HG Parry in conversation

This conversation is a highlight from the 2021's Dunedin Writers Festival.

Slaves in 19th-century Jamaica are not only under physical domination by their masters but also under magical control in A Declaration of the Rights of Magicians.

Parry intertwines the story of Fina - a young slave working on a sugar plantation who has her magical abilities held in check by her owner - with a reimagining of how the French Revolution might have unfolded if 18th-century France had been a place where magic was a potent force, suppressed by those in power.

Lynn Freeman:

I found an extra degree of horror when you think about that era. Fina is taken as a child, which happened . But the extra element that you've added in within this magical realm is that she is spellbound. That just chilled me.

Given that it's in the first three or four pages, we can probably talk about how you wove into the story an extra layer of horror for these slaves ripped from their homes.

HG Parry:

I put it in the first few pages partly so if it was getting too dark, people would know not to read any further because my first book was a lot lighter than all this stuff.

But it definitely wasn't a question of trying to make slavery worse.

I don't think you can make slavery any worse looking at magical control vs. what really happened. They were routinely tortured and beaten.

Among other things, the idea of spellbinding was  to kind of cast that light on the idea that that is literally what slavery is trying to do.

I mean we don't have magic but the idea of taking someone and trying to strip them of as much bodily autonomy as possible, and telling yourself - which they do in the book - that when you're doing it they don't have minds either.

That attempt to dehumanise is exactly what the purpose of slavery is. So if you're horrified by the idea of that happening by magic, then you should by rights be horrified by the intention of slavery at all.

Lynn Freeman:

Well, the sad thing is, Fina's only young and has heard rumours that if you eat this food it'll take the pain away. She wanted to die. She's shackled in a boat - a horrendous situation. I can completely understand her hoping that this would be her escape. But it's not. How does the spellbinding work?…

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Master storyteller Witi Ihimaera talks with Jacinta Ruru about Navigating the Stars: Māori Creation Myths, in which he explores Māori history and identity through its mythology.

Witi Ihimaera celebrates 50 years as a published writer in 2022. At the Dunedin Writers and Readers Festival he talks to Prof. Jacinta Ruru about his latest book, Navigating the Stars.

This work of historical non-fiction is an account of Māori creation myths. It is also the book which, after a long career in literature, art, theatre and film, he says he was "born to write."

  Hear Witi Ihimaera in conversation with Prof. Jacinta Ruru, recorded in May 2021

Witi Ihimaera:

I would not be happy if my work was just beautiful. It has to be functional. In the case of Navigating The Stars it also has to be instructive. A handbook for the mokopuna as they walk into what I call their ancient futures.

I'm old now, you know. I can inflect the book with the kind of knowledge that I come to at this age. The book is also about good and inclusive governance, it's about treating women with respect and standing up against domestic violence in the story of Hinauri.

It's about establishing protocols by which we can treat each other in this country equally and with justice. It's about understanding the holistic nature of the planet. Conserving plants and fish species and protecting waterways from degradation. It's about holding world leaders to account.

When I was in Korea, I was in this marvellous seminar where the professors said to me, "This is what we must do. We must hold the leaders to account. Large animals should not fight each other because all the grasses beneath their feet will get trampled." Isn't that great?

That's why this book became what it is because I could hear all of these voices - these ancestors who were sitting inside my head. So in the process, Navigating The Stars became far greater than just me and I'm grateful for that.

Rongopai in Waituhi is the Ringatu cathedral of this country. If anything explains or defines me, this meeting house is it. When I sought permission from the photographer, Mr Macduff Everton to publish the photo, I told him that actually, this was what my heart looks like. And in his reply giving his permission he replied, "Well, there won't be any fee for this scan of your heart."

But then this is as good an explanation of the inspiration for Navigating The Stars because the book is actually my written version of the painted meeting house in my valley. It always reminds me to take all my way back to the centre, in my case, Rongopai, to make sure that the taproot of my story goes into this meeting house…

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Lisa Reihana, Ane Tonga, Scott Lawrie and Deborah Rundle discuss a time of change for visual art with Claire Ulenberg at Creative Matakana. Recorded in May 2021.

Non-fungible tokens (NFTs) have become a hot issue in the world of digital creation, particularly so in the visual art world.

A panel of artists and curators discussed the issue at Creative Matakana in May 2021.

Hear Lisa Reihana, Ane Tonga, Scott Lawrie and Deborah Rundle talking about a changing art world. They discuss gender diversity, indigenous art, COVID-19 and the rise of NFTs with Claire Ulenberg.

Scott Lawrie:

If something is fungible, it has the same exchange value. So if I have a dollar and give it to you, and you give it back, that's fungible. Something non-fungible is something like a small painting, completely unique. It can't be replicated. The other thing you need to know about NFTs is that they are "evil tools of capitalism." They are just another form of exchange, and you have to swallow that bit. They are not revolutionary in terms of what they will do for the arts necessarily. It will certainly be the death of some galleries because galleries have not part to play in an NFT exchange for an artwork. It is the artist selling directly to a purchaser for crypto-currency.

Lisa Reihana:

You know it's not any different from what's happening anyway. If you sell an artwork, it comes from print media, like in the early 1900s, you put a value on something. It's a patent. America was really good at selling patents. It's just that they're embedding it in the blockchain. The problem with cryptocurrency at the present time is that it's being embedded on top of something else. What all of us artists need to be aware of is the  footprint, the amount of energy and resources it takes to run these things through the world.

Potentially it gives artists a new kind of rangatiratanga, enabling them to run your own business, but you also have to look at the code that's sitting underneath it. Who is running that code? All of us in the arts industry need to be asking "What is the footprint that we are creating?"

Scott Lawrie:

To your point, Lisa. It's technology-based and technology changes. There are already new authentication systems which are much lower in power, so you don't have to take the power that runs a small country like New Zealand. They now have different authentication modes which are much, much greener.

And some artists have done amazingly well. If you look at Jess Johnson for example, she's moved into that space. She's done an edition of five. They all sold for an ethereum each, whatever that's worth now, about two and a half grand, directly to the artist…

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A panel at Wanaka's Festival of Colour considers whether taxation is love. Lynn Freeman talks to Max Rashbrooke, Prof. Lisa Marriott and Shamubeel Eaqub in April 2021.

Is tax theft or is it love? A manifestation of the nanny-state or simply evidence of democratic government in action? How can taxation be made fairer?

Many of us want to pay as little as possible yet a panel at this year's Wanaka Festival of Colour argued that taxes - which pool our resources to provide schools, hospitals services and infrastructure - are vital for society to work.

This panel, chaired by Lynn Freeman, ranges around the globe in its discussion about wealth taxes, capital gains taxes, and other approaches which could be taken to ensure that everyone pays their share.

The issue of how to tax multinational corporations which pay only a desultory amount towards the governments of most of the countries in which they make large amounts of revenue is also a hot topic in the conversation.

Lisa Marriott, Shamubeel Eaqub and Max Rashbrooke talk tax with Lynn Freeman

About the speakers

Lisa Marriott is a Professor of Taxation at Victoria University. Her research interests include social justice and inequality, and the behavioural aspects of taxation.

Max Rashbrooke is a journalist, author and academic based in Wellington. His books, led by the best-selling Inequality: A New Zealand Crisis, have aimed to transform our understanding of income and wealth inequality.

Shamubeel Eaqub is a consultant at Sense Partners. His focus is on analytical frameworks to aid economic forecasting, on commentary and incisive research into topical areas of economics. He has a knack for coining memorable terms: zombie towns, generation rent and of course, tax is love.

This audio was broadcast in partnership with the Festival of Colour

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Lynn Freeman talks about democracy with Max Rashbrooke, Oliver Hartwich and Katherine Errington in this highlight from Wanaka's Festival of Colour in April 2021

In an era of extreme opinions and international polarisation, the very idea of democracy seems under attack.

Is it enough just to vote every three years? Can we debate issues and policies in-depth at other times, and build some sort of collective decision-making?

Three experts consider what it means to take part in democracy during this panel discussion at Wanaka's 2021 Festival of Colour.

Oliver Hartwich, Katherine Errington and Max Rashbrooke talk about voting and decision-making with Lynn Freeman

About the speakers

Oliver Hartwich is the Executive Director of The New Zealand Initiative. He has been a Research Fellow at the Centre for Independent Studies in Sydney, the Chief Economist at the Policy Exchange in London, and an advisor to the UK's House of Lords.

Katherine Errington is the Executive Director of the Helen Clark Foundation. Previously she worked as a diplomat in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

Max Rashbrooke is a journalist, author and academic based in Wellington. His book Government for the Public Good, examines the failures of market-based reforms and suggests a form of deep democracy as the best means to create governments fit for the twenty-first century. He has written and spoken about a number of forms of participatory democracy that move cities and countries past antagonistic stand-offs.

This audio was broadcast in partnership with the Festival of Colour

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A trans-Tasman panel explores how e-commerce can operate in an environmentally sustainable way. Paul Barclay hosts this ABC discussion with experts from NZ and Australia.

The ABC's Paul Barclay hosts a trans-Tasman panel discussion about how online home delivery can be done in ways that don't make things worse for climate change. The focus is on sustainable packaging and carbon-neutral delivery.

Listen to Kate Bezar, Dr Jonathan Baker, James Chin Moody and Cinzia Cozzolino talking about e-commerce and the environment with the ABC's Paul Barclay

The New Zealand speakers are Kate Bezar from The Better Packaging Co., Dr Jonathan Baker, Senior Lecturer International Business Strategy and Entrepreneurship at AUT. And they're joined in Australia by James Chin Moody from the delivery company Sendle (which competes with Australia Post by flourishing its eco- and carbon-neutral credentials), and Cinzia Cozzolino, the founder of Smoothie Bombs, a product which had once used plastic packaging but has now converted to ecologically kinder alternatives.

Together they explore the economics of sustainable e-commerce - supercharged by Covid restrictions worldwide - while noting the areas in which it remains environmentally challenged.

From the discussion:

Paul Barclay:

An increase in online purchasing means an increase in the packaging that is required to send all of those goods out all over the world. Items that are purchased online require more packaging and wrapping for shipping, in addition to their existing packaging. And often this packaging is plastic. Is this the Achilles heel of e-commerce - that it can, and does, lead to more waste?

Jonathan Baker:

I guess you could argue that. But if you took a more broad perspective of plastics generally, we've had problems with plastics since the invention of plastic as a petroleum product. I'm doing a case study at the moment of the way the plastics industry in the United States managed to deflect all responsibility for this extraordinary waste they were creating, and instead forced that responsibility onto individual consumers who engage in recycling (and much of that is ostensible recycling, not actual), and then governments as well that have to have these agencies that run these recycling programmes…

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Huge strides in the care of pre-term babies have been made in the last few decades. Prof. Frank Bloomfield reports on this history, and current research, in this Raising the Bar 2021 highlight.

In a wide-ranging talk about the history of neonatology, Professor Frank Bloomfield recounts how an American 'freak show' contributed to how we understand caring for premature babies,

Listen to Professor Frank Bloomfield at Auckland University's Raising the Bar event

From the talk:

The term 'neonatology' (from "new birth") was defined for the first time in 1960.

Before then, there had been some sporadic care of pre-term babies, but this wasn't really in hospitals. In fact, the care for babies before the middle of last century was actually in peep shows and amusement parks.

The most famous one was an amusement fair at Coney Island in New York where one of the main attractions was a display of pre-term babies in incubators.

Punters paid 25 cents to go in and look at these pre-term babies that were deliberately dressed in oversized clothes to make them look even smaller than they were, and wrapped in pink and blue ribbons depending on whether they were boys or girls.

Today, it sounds pretty ghastly for these pre-term babies to be on display in a freak show, but in fact, the facility was scrupulously clean and hygienic, and although it made the person who ran it exceptionally rich, it undoubtedly also resulted in the survival of many babies who otherwise would have died.

About the speaker

Prof. Frank Bloomfield is a Neonatologist and Director of the Liggins Institute, an Auckland University research institute focused on how the early life environment has a life-long impact. He has practised as a neonatologist in New Zealand for more than 25 years and is passionate about the nutrition and growth of the foetus and newborn baby.

Raising the Bar was recorded in association with the University of Auckland

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