Penta and Crunch are reinventing banking and accounting for startups and sole traders.

Darren Fell is the Founder and CEO of Crunch, one of the original cloud-based accounting platforms, launched in 2009. Crunch serves thousands of sole traders and small businesses in the UK with an ever-increasing range of accounting and financial services products.

Lav Odorovic is Co-Founder and CEO of Penta, a Berlin-based neobank offering banking services to early-stage technology companies.

Today's conversation explores the convergence of banking and accounting, two closely related and until now separate services for SMEs.

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