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In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore a powerful quote from Lisa Lamb: "An abdication of leadership is also an abuse of leadership." Lisa's perspective as a preaching professor adds a unique angle to the discussion, highlighting the responsibility of leaders to recognize and respond to the needs they see in the world. Tod shares insights from his experience, emphasizing the collaborative nature of leadership in calling for change and transformation.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Lisa Lamb in Episode 161: Preaching for Deep Connection:

“An abdication of leadership is also an abuse of leadership.”


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Abdicating leadership responsibilities is an abuse of leadership.
• Stepping into places of pain and taking responsibility is true leadership.
• Leadership is about convening people and inviting them to make a difference.
• Preaching serves leadership by calling people to take responsibility for change.
• Leadership in a changing world is a collaborative experience that involves using the preaching moment to call people to take responsibility for transformation.

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In this conversation, Adam McHugh, the author of Blood From a Stone, opens up about his transition from ministry as a hospice chaplain to the world of wine, becoming a wine tour guide and sommelier.  Adam shares about the emotional rollercoaster that goes along with redefining one's identity and faith outside of traditionally established ministry roles.

For pastors and ministry leaders struggling with letting go of their church-centered identities, or struggling with transitioning in the way they are called to lead in a constantly changing world, this conversation will encourage you to lean into the patience and the inner transformation needed to live and lead in new ways.


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Adam McHugh shares his journey from ministry to a new career path, reflecting on the difficulty and fear associated with such a transition.
• Markus Watson and Adam McHugh explore the prevalence of compassion fatigue among pastors and chaplains, acknowledging the personal toll it takes.
• The conversation touches on the struggle to redefine personal identity and faith when moving beyond traditional pastoral roles.
• Adam McHugh recounts his impactful experiences as a hospice chaplain and how they shaped his sense of self and faith.
• Adam and Markus delve into the "dark night of the soul," discussing the profound search for authenticity amidst life's challenges.
• Adam McHugh describes his transition from being a pastor and chaplain to a sommelier and wine tour guide, revealing a new chapter of his life.
• Adam McHugh articulates the struggle of identity and the transformation he underwent from Reverend to sommelier, framing it as an evolution of his humanity.
• Adam McHugh and Markus Watson emphasize the necessity of acknowledging the end of one life phase before embracing a new one, underscoring the importance of the internal transition process.
• Markus Watson adds insight into the stress associated with pastoral duties and the importance of embracing one's humanity over a clerical role.
• Adam McHugh advises pastors grappling with identity transitions to be patient and considerate of the internal processes involved.
• The discussion reveals Adam McHugh's tumultuous shift from a pastoral identity to embracing a new community and profession.
• Markus Watson speaks to the ongoing journey of transformation, underscoring the significance of patience and being shaped by God's hand.
• Adam McHugh advises embracing patience during the difficult process of identity transition, recognizing that it is a part of the continual path of transformation.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Adam McHugh:
  • Email – [email protected]
  • Instagram - @adammchughwine
  • InterVarsity Press bio
• Books mentioned:
  • Blood From a Stone, by Adam McHugh
  • Powers and Thrones, by Dan Jones
  • Managing Transitions, by William Bridges
• Related Episodes:
  • Ep. 142: Navigating the 7 Stages of Transition, with D. Michael Lindsay
  • Ep. 194: Saudade, Leadership, and Nurturing the Inner Life, with Jeff Crosby

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In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the transformative power of vocation as they discuss a poignant quote by Steven Garber. Join them as they unpack how each person's calling is  woven into the very meaning of God's work in the world. They shed light on the profound implications of vocation for spiritual formation, the vitality of the church, and the overarching mission of God. With engaging anecdotes and thought-provoking insights, this discussion promises to spark a deeper understanding of vocation's profound impact on individual lives and the collective mission of the church.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Scott Thumma in Episode 157: Seamless Leadership:

“Vocation is integral—not incidental—to the missio dei, to the very meaning of God’s work in the world.” 
 

THIS EPISODES' HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Every Christian has a calling to participate in God's mission to bring renewal to the world.
• Our sense of calling is not just about our career or job but is integral to our identity.
• Every person's vocation, whether paid or unpaid, is sacred and important in the eyes of God.
• God chooses to use us in His work to restore and renew the world.
• Vocation involves developing the capacity to hear God's voice and discern our unique calling in life.

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When I walked the Camino de Santiago in 2022, it was something I had been longing to do for years.  After a fairly traumatic experience at a church I'd been serving, the thought of just walking with Jesus for an extended time felt like exactly what I needed.

I walked the Camino together with Jon Huckins, the founder and Director of Journey Home.  In this episode, Jon unpacks why pilgrimmage is so meaningful and how it can help those of us in leadership to be our best selves for the sake of those we're leading, for the world, and for ourselves.


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Jon Huckins is founder and Director of Journey Home and is adjunct professor of New Testament at Point Loma Nazarene University.
• Jon Huckins describes the transition to the second half of life as a shift from doing to being and embracing one's identity as deeply loved by God.
• The Camino de Santiago pilgrimage is presented as a crucial tool for self-reflection, challenging external expectations, and engaging spiritual awakening.
• The transition from leading Global Immersion to starting Journey Home reflects Huckins' focus on facilitating societal and individual healing.
• Jon Huckins shares the profound influence the Camino pilgrimage has had on his ministry and his dedication to the work of peacemaking.
• The Camino serves as a means for intentional dislocation to face oneself and the authentic realitiies of life.
• Huckins comments on the distinct challenges faced by pastors and ministry leaders in an era where their conventional roles are questioned.
• Pilgrimage, according to Jon Huckins, is linked to the process of acknowledging and grieving loss, while also confronting the resistance to change in our ministries.
• Becoming second-half-of-life individuals allows for more resilience and a generous, open-hearted approach to leadership.
• Jon Huckins emphasizes the significance of spaces like the Camino for transformation, focusing on experiencing rather than decision-making.
• Jon Huckins highlights the transformative power of being fully present and releasing control, as experienced on the Camino.
• The mission of Journey Home aims to facilitate pilgrimages that act as vehicles for healing and development for leaders.
• Jon Huckins stresses the importance of pilgrimages like the Camino in aiding Christian leaders through their spiritual and emotional development.
• The challenges of ministry require spaces and practices that support healing and rejuvenation.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• JourneyHome:
  • Website – Journeyhome.info
  • Instagram - @journey_home_pilgrimages
• Books mentioned:
  • Falling Upward, by Richard Rohr
  • Leadership on the Line, by Ronald Heifetz
• Related episodes:
  • Ep 163: You Can’t Be Found if You’re Never Lost, with Steve Carter
  • Ep 112: The Beatitudes and Spiritual Leadership, with Mark Scandrette
• Church leadership In

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In this episode, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the concept of disequilibrium and its impact on systems, leadership, and organizational health. They discuss how prolonged equilibrium can be detrimental to a system's ability to adapt and innovate, and how crises and moments of disequilibrium can actually reveal underlying problems and present opportunities for growth and change. Drawing from experiences and examples, they highlight the potential for systems and individuals to become stronger, more resilient, and healthier due to the experience of disequilibrium.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Markus Watson in Episode 139: Disequilibrium and the Mission of God :

"When a system experiences disequilibrium, the system has the opportunity to become stronger, to become more resilient, and even to become healthier." 


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Experiencing disequilibrium allows a system to become stronger, more resilient, and healthier.
• Prolonged equilibrium can lead to a loss of ability to adapt.
• Crises reveal opportunities to hit the organizational reset button and address underlying issues.
• Disequilibrium can lead to increased capacity and clarity in dealing with crisis and making hard decisions.
• Disequilibrium or crisis provides opportunities to make a system stronger.

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Would your neighborhood even notice if your church ceased to exist?  I imagine that’s a question many of us have thought about.  Maybe you’ve even posed that question to your congregation.

Maybe the question should be, as churches, how do we become more present to our neighborhood.?  That’s what I talk about in this episode with my guest, Tim Soerens, the author of Everywhere You Look: Discovering the Church Right Where You Are.

Tim walks us through his shift from wanting to be a big church pastor to learning what it means to truly embody the Christian narrative in our neighborhoods. And he helps us better understand the concept of a parish and what it means to have a “minimum viable presence” in your community.


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Tim Soerens emphasizes the need to listen and understand the specific hopes and dreams God has for both communities and individuals.
• He advises on discerning how to actively address the particular needs and challenges within a neighborhood or parish.
• The conversation delves into determining a parish's boundaries, considering factors like centers of activity, edges, and resident affiliation.
• Soerens notes the complexities in identifying a parish in suburban and rural settings, influenced by architectural designs and local governance.
• Markus Watson discusses the varied needs of communities in serving their neighborhoods effectively.
• Tim Soerens suggests congregations often comprise multiple parishes, sparking discussion on discerning their locations.
• Soerens introduces the idea of a 'minimum viable presence' for church experimentation, akin to the business concept of a 'minimum viable product.'
• He highlights the value of small, experimental initiatives to understand better what works in community outreach.
• The discussion encourages involving others in these small experiments and celebrating the courage it takes to try new approaches.
• They stress the freedom to experiment without the fear of failure, emphasizing that each community requires a tailored approach.
• Soerens recommends starting outreach efforts with curiosity, prayer, and involving others in experimental activities.
• Tim Soerens shares insights into The Parish Collective's mission and upcoming events, inviting listeners to connect.
• He recounts a pivotal interaction with Michael Frost that steered him away from preaching-centric community formation to joining what God is already doing.
• The conversation touches on the formation of The Parish Collective, which encourages congregations to align their ecclesial life around joining God's work.
• Soerens advocates for a vision of the church that transcends Sunday services, focusing instead on being actively involved in God's hopes and dreams for neighborhoods.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Parish Collective Website
• Books Mentioned:
  • Everywhere You Look, by Tim Soerens
• Related episodes:
  • Episode 129: Recalibrating the Church Around Jesus, with Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch Episode 185: From Sunday Services to Real Transformation, with E.K. Strawser 
  • Episode 177: Exploring New Forms of Church, with

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Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the technological challenges faced by congregations during the pandemic. They discuss a quote from Scott Thumma about the hybrid and customizable nature of the world and its implications for congregations. Tod shares insights on the importance of aligning values with technological adaptations, the decreasing willingness to change post-pandemic, and the need for enduring long-term adaptation. Together, they discuss practical strategies for pastors to navigate these challenges and ensure congregations reflect the ever-changing world.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Scott Thumma in Episode 198: Clergy, Congregations, and Hope After the Pandemic:

“Our world is customizable. It is on demand.  It is hybrid.  It’s virtual as much as it is in person. In the rest of our lives we’ve come to understand that’s how the rest of the world works. So, we really have to think about how do we make our congregations reflect that.” 


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Scott Thumma suggests that our world has become customizable, on-demand, and virtual, and calls for congregations to reflect the changes in the wider world.
• Tod Bolsinger emphasizes that adaptive leadership is not just about technical solutions, but about values, behaviors, and attitudes.
• The decrease in people's willingness to adapt beyond the crisis is observed, signifying the tendency to revert to the familiar when the crisis has passed.
• Wise and enduring change requires self-reflection and a shift from short-term crisis adaptations to long-term adaptation in a changing environment.
• Tod Bolsinger recommends that congregations start by identifying their deepest values and then being willing to change everything else to align with those values.

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Barry Rowan has had a 40-year career in leading businesses after graduating from Harvard Business School. He and his wife are entering into a new encore calling, which includes his new book, The Spiritual Art of Business.

Barry Rowan, in this episode, challenges the dualism of the sacred and the secular, and shares his incredible journey of surrender, transformation, and integrating faith into his 40-year-business career. 


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Barry Rowan discusses the paradigm shift he experienced, realizing that life is lived from the inside out, with Jesus at the center of our lives, and everything being an expression of Christ in us.
• He challenges the dualism between the sacred and the secular, arguing that it causes problems and leads us to live outside of God's purposes.
• Barry Rowan points out that viewing work through the right lens can make every moment congruent with our purpose in life.
• Markus Watson reflects on the self-perception challenges people in the business world face, and Rowan emphasizes the need to bring meaning to work and view business roles as noble and sacred callings.
• Barry Rowan describes the purpose of business as responsible value creation, serving customers, creating an environment for employees to grow, and being a good corporate citizen, all contributing to a better society.
• Barry Rowan discusses how he approached his Christian beliefs in the workplace, explaining his focus on reflecting God's principles in business operations.
• The "spiritual art of business cycle," emphasizes surrender, transformation, becoming new creations, and going out into the world.
• Surrender is the gateway to freedom and leads to personal transformation and the expression of Christ in us.
• Markus Watson discusses the possibility of the cycle applying to organizations and churches, to which Rowan agrees and emphasizes the need for continuous reimagining and transformation, particularly in the current post-Christendom world.
• Developing a life-giving perspective of work is so important.
• Barry Rowan shares examples of individuals finding meaning and purpose in their work, such as a woman making baby monitors and a shuttle bus driver.
• They discuss how pastors can apply this perspective to their roles, emphasizing the need for personal internalization of their work's spiritual significance.
• Every moment can be charged with God's presence and we should incorporate that perspective into our daily activities.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Barry Rowan
  • Website – barrylrowan.com
  • Free The Spiritual Art of Business study guide
• Books mentioned:
  • The Spiritual Art of Business, by Barry Rowan
• Related Episodes:
  • Ep. 27: Developing a Framework for Intentional Spiritual Growth
  • Ep. 44: Spiritual Formation and Lectio Divina
  • Ep. 94: Centering Prayer
  • Ep. 126:  A Crisis of Adult Discipleship
  • Ep. 179:  The Neuroscience of Spir

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Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the distinction between change and transition. Quoting D. Michael Lindsay, they discuss how change happens in an instant, whereas transition unfolds over weeks, months, and sometimes years. Bolstering this idea with personal anecdotes, they delve into the importance of giving oneself the time and space to adapt to change, acknowledging the losses involved, and ultimately finding comfort and growth in the new realities.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Sarah Bereza in Episode 142: Navigating the 7 Stages of Transition:

"Change happens to us in an instant.  Transition happens over weeks, months, sometimes even years." 


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Understanding the difference between change and transition is crucial for adapting to life's challenges.
• Acknowledging the loss and grief that come with change can help build resilience and lead to a quicker processing of the transition.
• Developing patience and perseverance involves recognizing the importance of giving oneself the space to adapt and acknowledging the honesty of what has been lost.
• Allowing the necessary time to adapt to change and transition is vital in order to be intentional and patient in dealing with life's challenges.
• Embracing the reality that transition takes time, and staying committed to the process can lead to a place of comfort and contentment in the new circumstances.

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Michael Rhodes is lecturer in Old Testament at Carey Baptist College and the author of Just Discipleship:  Biblical Justice in an Unjust World.

From the biblical concept of justice and the role of worship in shaping our approach to justice, to the practicalities of addressing poverty and racial justice, Michael Rhodes takes us into the heart of what it means to live out just discipleship.


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Michael Rhodes emphasizes the importance of incorporating themes of justice into worship and liturgy.
• Worship should create a demand among worshipers to get involved in God's mission of justice and bring the pain of the world into the center.
• The feasts in Deuteronomy are invitations to the good life and wise living, and they also address contemporary justice issues.
• Michael Rhodes highlights the concept of the "feast" and the importance of interacting with people not like oneself.
• Michael Rhodes suggests practical advice for overcoming obstacles, such as increasing proximity to those facing injustice and allowing scripture to unsettle and challenge unjust practices.
• Worship and prayer, such as the Psalms, play an important role in shaping perspectives on justice and discipleship.
• Michael Rhodes emphasizes the concept of tithing in Deuteronomy, where people are encouraged to use their tithe to have a feast before the Lord.
• The justice feast forms the community and the hearts of the individuals who participate, as it teaches them to fear the Lord and relate to God.
• Worship should create a demand among worshipers to get involved in God's mission of justice.
• Michael Rhodes points out the increasing lack of interaction between different economic classes in American society and suggests that proximity to those who are suffering is crucial.
• the justice feast in Deuteronomy highlights the concept of justice as the faithful exercise of power and just structures, including regular contributions for the poor and debt forgiveness laws.
• Michael Rhodes proposes practical advice for overcoming obstacles, such as increasing proximity to those facing injustice and allowing scripture to unsettle and challenge unjust practices.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Michael Rhodes:
  • Twitter - @michaeljrhodes
  • Carey Baptist College
• Books mentioned:
  • Just Discipleship, by Michael Rhodes
  • Practicing the King’s Economy, by Michael Rhodes and Robby Holt
• Related episodes:
  • Ep. 29: Serving the Poor and the Immigrant
  • Ep. 42: Speaking Out Against Injustice
  • Ep. 143: How the Church Can Respond to Immigration
  • Ep. 167: Called to Each Other

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