Clint Smith, the founder of Thunder Ranch and a U.S. Marine Corps combat veteran with two infantry tours in Vietnam and a long law enforcement career, joins State of the Second hosts John and Kaylee for an episode built around one blunt idea: a pistol is a tool of convenience, and a rifle is what ends a fight. Smith walks through how his thinking changed across more than 50 years, from the near-zero pistol instruction he got in the Marine Corps to his early run-ins with PPC, the Practical Pistol Course he says was anything but practical. He explains why the rifle came back into law enforcement after the April 1986 Miami FBI shooting, and why most gunfights happen at the width or length of a car, not at 50 yards.

The heart of the conversation is competency and personal responsibility. Smith argues that owning a gun does not make a person competent, and that practice and mindset matter more than the specific handgun in your holster. He reframes the military's shoot, move, and communicate as communicate first, then move to cover, then shoot only if you have to, because every bullet fired has a lawyer attached to it and a jury that decides whether you acted responsibly. He covers backing up to create distance, the legal value of a defensive posture on camera, where to aim, and why a fight is fought to win rather than to a draw. He also recommends a short-barreled rifle with a suppressor and a white light for home defense, and corrects the common belief that rifle rounds pass through more interior walls than pistol rounds.

Smith gets personal on the mental side: rehearsing scenarios, training to shoot with either hand, staying vigilant even when a larger partner is present, and the reality that carrying a gun is comforting rather than comfortable. He closes on safety, calling most negligent discharges incompetence rather than accidents, and on history, naming his top firearms and arguing that public education should be grounded more in history. The episode includes sponsor reads for Ammo Squared, Right to Bear, and Patriot Mobile, and ends with a reminder to register for GOALS, GOA's 50th anniversary convention, August 1st and 2nd in Des Moines, Iowa.

Smith says his thinking shifted from the near-zero pistol instruction he got in the Marine Corps and his early experience with PPC, the Practical Pistol Course, toward the view that most gunfights happen close in, at the width or length of a car rather than at 50 yards.

He treats the handgun as something you carry because it is easy to have on you, not because it is the most effective option. To actually end a fight, Smith says you use a rifle, which is why the long gun returned to law enforcement after the April 1986 Miami FBI shooting.

Smith recommends a short-barreled rifle paired with a suppressor and a white light for defending the home, favoring the rifle's effectiveness over a handgun in a close-quarters confrontation.

Smith corrects the common belief that rifle rounds pass through more interior walls than pistol rounds, pushing back on the assumption that a rifle is automatically the bigger over-penetration risk indoors.

Smith argues that owning a gun does not make a person competent. Practice and mindset matter more than the specific handgun you carry, and real competency takes deliberate work and money.

He reframes the military's shoot, move, and communicate as communicate first, then move to cover, then shoot only if you have to, because every bullet fired carries legal consequences and a jury that decides whether you acted responsibly.

Smith stresses rehearsing scenarios, training to shoot with either hand, and staying vigilant even when a larger partner is present, treating a carried gun as something comforting rather than comfortable.

Smith closes the episode by naming his top firearms and arguing that public education should be grounded more in history, though the specific models are covered in the discussion itself rather than summarized here.

Clint Smith is the founder of Thunder Ranch. He is a U.S. Marine Corps combat veteran who joined in 1967, served from 1967 to 1970, and did two infantry tours in Vietnam. He is also a law enforcement veteran whose career included time on a sheriff's department. He started his Urban Rifle class in 1983, ran a school in Texas for five-day classes for 11 years, and later taught three-day classes in Oregon for two or three years. He is married to Heidi and, at the time of recording, was 76 years old and living in Wyoming. He appeared in a 2001 60 Minutes segment and previously wrote a column for American Handgunner.

Stellar Arms co-owner Scott Melton joins Kaylee and John for the season three premiere of Gun Owners of America's State of the Second, recorded in the show's new studio. Stellar Arms is a smaller precision rifle manufacturer out of Lincoln, Nebraska, with roots in aerospace. Its founder, Ty, came from the aerospace world and started doing custom firearms work about 15 years ago, and the company's sister operation, originally called MASP Enterprises, still produces aerospace parts for companies like SpaceX and NASA. That aerospace background drives how Stellar builds firearms: tight tolerances, most parts made in-house, quality control on outsourced parts, and a willingness to scrap components that don't meet spec. Scott's argument is that a loose-tolerance AR will still function, but it won't hold accuracy, which is why every Stellar rifle ships with a lifetime warranty and a card signed by the armorer who checked, assembled, and test-fired it.

A big stretch of the episode is about firearms as art. Stellar has stepped outside traditional marketing, including building the Maximus rifle in a collaboration with Andre Alofsky and delivering one to Dana White. Scott talks about the company's diamond-engraved Executive model, cut on a CNC machine with the upper, lower, and handguard attached so the lines transfer perfectly, and about working with engraver T Tariq of T's Gun Vault. He plans to release certain parts in a raw form this year so customers can Cerakote, paint, and customize their own builds. The conversation ties this to a cultural shift: more recognizable names are comfortable being public about firearms, and the group sees custom and limited-run guns as a lower barrier to entry that brings new people into the Second Amendment community.

The back half moves into legacy and the why behind gun ownership. Scott frames Stellar's mission around building rifles you can pass down, the same way his great-grandfather's and grandfather's guns were passed to him. Kaylee connects that to defending the Second Amendment across generations, arguing the right has to be nurtured through experiences like range days, classes, and building an AR together, not just inherited by owning a safe full of guns. The Soapbox segment digs into attacks on firearm safety and hunter education in schools, the loss of community after COVID, the value of the trades, and how social media has pulled people away from real connection. Scott also makes the case that an armed citizenry has been a deterrent to foreign attack on the American mainland. The episode closes with Stellar's contact info, a thank-you to Palmetto State Armory for sponsoring guest gifts, and a push for GOALS, GOA's 50th anniversary event in Des Moines, Iowa, August 1st and 2nd.

Stellar Arms is a smaller precision rifle manufacturer in Lincoln, Nebraska, with aerospace roots through its founder, Ty, and a sister operation that makes parts for companies like SpaceX and NASA. That background drives tight tolerances, in-house manufacturing, and scrapping anything that misses spec.

Stellar Arms was formerly known as MASP Enterprises, and its sister operation under that name still produces aerospace parts for companies like SpaceX and NASA. That aerospace manufacturing background is what carried over into how Stellar builds its rifles.

Stellar Arms built the Maximus rifle in a collaboration with Andre Alofsky and delivered one to Dana White. It was part of the company stepping outside traditional marketing and treating firearms as art.

The Executive model is diamond-engraved and cut on a CNC machine with the upper, lower, and handguard attached, so the engraved lines transfer perfectly across all three parts. Stellar worked with engraver T Tariq of T's Gun Vault on this kind of work.

Scott Melton argues a loose-tolerance AR will still function but won't hold accuracy, so Stellar ships every rifle with a lifetime warranty and a card signed by the armorer who checked, assembled, and test-fired it. It's how the company stands behind its precision standard.

Scott Melton makes the case that custom and limited-run guns lower the barrier to entry and bring new people into the Second Amendment community. Stellar plans to release certain parts in raw form so customers can Cerakote, paint, and customize their own builds.

Scott Melton frames a rifle as something that should still function as a high-performing tool while also being allowed to look good, like customizing a car. The episode ties this to a cultural shift where more recognizable names are comfortable being public about firearms.

Scott Melton frames Stellar's mission around building rifles you can pass down, the way his great-grandfather's and grandfather's guns came to him. Kaylee argues the Second Amendment has to be nurtured through range days, classes, and building an AR together, not just inherited by owning a safe full of guns.

Scott Melton is a co-owner of Stellar Arms, a precision rifle manufacturer based in Lincoln, Nebraska, formerly known as MASP Enterprises. He says he has 14 years in the firearms industry and a history in product development. He lives in the Arizona desert, near Phoenix, and has four kids. He works closely with Andre Alofsky and with engraver T Tariq of T's Gun Vault, and Stellar built the Maximus rifle that was delivered to Dana White.

Ben Stacy of Forge Relations returns to State of the Second to talk about how firearms brands need to market as 2026 arrives. Hosts John Fahrner and Kaylee open with the core problem: the dedicated, everyday gun owners are already reached, so the real question is how to get the next group interested. Ben names them plainly, the young mother worried about her safety and the recent college grad into overlanding or sports, and argues the first move is going where the customer already is. That means TikTok and YouTube, the platforms new owners actually use, even when those platforms are hostile to the industry. Kaylee adds the women's-side view: empowerment has shifted from a buzzword to a daily reality, with moms seeking concealed carry options, stop the bleed training, and firearm safety classes for their kids.

A theme runs through the whole conversation: people buy from people, not from companies. Ben pushes brands to be their own best content creator, find creators inside their community, tell the backstory, and show behind the curtain. He uses Palmetto State Armory as the example, both when products sell out and when a project gets canceled and Cameron gets on camera to explain why, the kind of transparency that earns trust. He and Kaylee argue that loyalty follows when values align, and that in the firearms space, where the product ties to a constitutional right, brands should draw a line in the sand rather than stay in the middle. John presses on the value proposition: new buyers care less about metal coatings and round counts and more about whether a product works, fits a budget, and can protect their family. The group also breaks down a real shift, that new owners want one multifaceted tool rather than a separate gun for each job.

The closing Soapbox segment is the bluntest stretch. Ben's spicy take: get over yourself, go where the people are, work within the platforms' limits, and stop complaining that you cannot run ads. John shares hard experience building a TikTok page to 120,000, getting deplatformed, and rebuilding it twice, with a clip that hit a million views and produced sales. Both land on the same place: marketing is experimenting and being comfortable with failure, building a community over time, and staying consistent instead of giving up on a platform after a slow start. Ben's parting line ties it together: the more you try to sell your product, the less of it you will sell. Be genuine, stand for something, and connect with people. Forge Relations has been in the gun and defense space since 2013, online at forgerelations.com.

Ben Stacy points to the customers beyond the dedicated everyday gun owner, like the young mother worried about her safety and the recent college grad into overlanding or sports. The dedicated crowd is already reached, so growth comes from getting these next groups interested.

Stacy's core rule is to go where the customer already is, and new owners actually use TikTok and YouTube. Brands should work within the platforms' limits rather than avoid them just because the platforms are unfriendly to firearms.

Instead of complaining about the ad ban, brands should build community through organic content, become their own best content creator, and stay consistent on the platforms new buyers use. Marketing here is experimenting, getting comfortable with failure, and building an audience over time.

New owners care whether a product works, fits their budget, and can protect their family, not the technical details that excite enthusiasts. The value proposition speaks to that buyer; spec talk does not.

Loyalty follows when values align, so brands should tell their backstory, show behind the curtain, and find creators inside their community. People buy from people, not from companies, and standing for something earns trust over time.

Palmetto State Armory shows transparency in both good and bad moments, including when a project gets canceled and Cameron gets on camera to explain why. That honesty, not just hype when products sell out, is what builds trust.

Rebuild and stay consistent. Host John Fahrner grew a TikTok page to 120,000, got deplatformed, and rebuilt it twice, eventually landing a clip that hit a million views and drove sales.

Stacy's point is that the more you push the sale, the less people buy, because audiences respond to genuine connection over a hard pitch. Be genuine, stand for something, and connect with people, and the sales follow.

Ben Stacy is from Forge Relations, a digital marketing firm in the gun industry and defense space that has been doing this work since 2013. The company can be found online at forgerelations.com and on the same handle across socials. He is a returning guest on the State of the Second podcast and describes himself as a parent of a toddler.

Adelina May joins State of the Second to talk about how women actually carry a firearm day to day, and why most of the conventional advice misses the people it claims to serve. She runs Girls Just Want to Have Guns, a company with women instructors and women attendees that teaches women across the country to go from anxious around a gun to confident enough to carry every day. Her path started young. She grew up with guns in the home, started training around age 12 when her dad pulled her into his church security team's range sessions, moved into competitive shooting, and has been a grandmaster for the last six years. Working at a manufacturer during Covid showed her how many people buy a gun and assume they can use it, and a conversation with her own mom, who couldn't unload the gun kept by the bed without being shown, convinced her most women in America had never actually been taught.

Adelina's core argument is about meeting women where they already are. She builds her classes as events, not lectures, with branded pink gear, gift bags, raffles, and a group photo, so first-timers show up excited instead of intimidated. On gear, her first recommendation is always a good holster in hard plastic or Kydex with a clip that won't pull out when you draw, like an Ulti clip or DCC clip. On training, she focuses on conceptual understanding, real-life scenarios through her monthly gun club, and dry-firing from the actual position and outfit you carry in. She is direct about the parts of the industry that hold women back: gun-store staff who steer women to a gun because it's pink or small instead of what performs, product launches that only picture tactical models, and instructors who tear new shooters down or ban long nails from class.

The hosts and Adelina dig into mindset and instruction, including why spouses often make poor teachers, how a single negative comment can take many positive ones to undo, and when an instructor should stop correcting and just let a student shoot. The conversation closes on the soapbox segment, where Adelina names what the industry still misses: relatability. She argues that if every model in the marketing is jacked, tactical, or a dark femme fatale, the average woman concludes the gun world isn't for her. Her fix is to show real people in real clothing doing real things, then train women to perform in what they actually wear, cute dress and heels included.

Adelina Mae's first recommendation is always a good holster in hard plastic or Kydex, paired with a clip that won't pull out when you draw, like an Ulti clip or DCC clip. A holster that stays put on the draw is the foundation everything else builds on.

She builds her classes as events rather than lectures, with branded pink gear, gift bags, raffles, and a group photo. The goal is for first-timers to show up excited instead of intimidated.

Working at a manufacturer during Covid showed her how many people buy a gun and simply assume they can use it. A conversation with her own mom, who couldn't unload the bedside gun without being shown, convinced her most women in America had never actually been taught.

Many women arrive anxious and easily shaken, and Adelina Mae notes that a single negative comment can take many positive ones to undo. She works through it by knowing when to stop correcting and simply let a student shoot.

Adelina Mae and the hosts discuss why spouses often make poor instructors, tying it to how easily a single negative comment can set a new shooter back. A neutral instructor avoids the personal dynamic that makes correction land harder between partners.

She is direct that gun-store staff often steer women toward a gun because it's pink or small instead of what actually performs. Her counter is to focus on performance over appearance and to get real instruction rather than trusting a store's snap recommendation.

Adelina Mae's answer is relatability. When every model in the marketing is jacked, tactical, or a dark femme fatale, the average woman concludes the gun world isn't for her, so she argues for showing real people in real clothing doing real things.

She focuses on conceptual understanding, real-life scenarios through her monthly gun club, and dry-firing from the actual position and outfit you carry in. The principle is to train the way you'll actually perform, cute dress and heels included.

Adelina May is a female-only firearms instructor and the owner of Girls Just Want to Have Guns, a company with women instructors and women attendees that teaches women across the country how to go from scared and anxious with a firearm to confident, effective, and carrying every day. She grew up with guns in the home and started shooting around age five. She began training near age 12 alongside her dad's church security team, moved into competitive shooting, and has been a grandmaster for the last six years. She worked at a firearms manufacturer during Covid and has worked at gun stores. She also runs a monthly gun club and shares concealed-carry and educational content on social media.

State of the Second welcomes back Dan and Danielle Morton, the husband-and-wife owners of Ammo Squared, for a wide-ranging conversation about ammunition as a stored asset and what real preparedness looks like. The Mortons started Ammo Squared in 2015 out of their garage and describe the company as building an ammunition safety net for America. Their model flips the usual transaction: you buy a generic need, like 9 millimeter practice, store it with the company, and have it shipped whenever you want. Since their last appearance the business has grown fast, from about 40,000 members to 147,000, and they just opened a second facility in Texas after celebrating a 10-year anniversary in Boise.

Most of the episode digs into how a storage-first ammo company actually operates. Dan walks through the caliber-of-the-month approach, the lesson learned from once offering more than 500 calibers and getting stuck on ones they could not restock, and why widespread adoption has to exist before a caliber makes business sense. They talk through how shortages work on their side, where an auto buy keeps running and customers wait in line for allocation, and why major NATO calibers get prioritized by manufacturers during a crunch. Kaylee adds the consumer view, including how the platform simplifies choices for first-time gun owners by labeling rounds by purpose instead of brand, and the dopamine hit of watching an account grow in the background. The hosts and guests also riff on April Fools' products that accidentally revealed real demand, and Dan previews a next-generation platform that would let members speak or type what they want and use AI to build an ammo plan.

The back half turns serious. Dan frames ammo as a store of value, comparing it to gold and silver and noting some customers have sold stored inventory back when they needed cash. In the From the Soapbox segment, the conversation moves to personal sovereignty, public education, and Second Amendment education, including GOA's reminder that rights are constitutionally protected rather than government granted. Ammo Squared's stated long-term vision is to store one billion rounds over the next ten years across 10 to 20 warehouses, positioning itself as America's ammunition reserve so future shortages lose their sting.

Ammo Squared is a storage-first ammunition service: members buy a generic need like 9 millimeter practice, store it with the company, and have it shipped whenever they want. That flips the usual transaction, letting people build a stockpile in the background instead of buying and taking delivery all at once.

The company grew from about 40,000 members to 147,000 members. It also opened a second facility in Texas and marked its 10-year anniversary in Boise, with a team of roughly 28 to 30 people.

Ammo Squared once offered more than 500 calibers and got stuck holding ones it could not restock, so it pared back. Now it adds calibers through a caliber-of-the-month approach and does not stock a caliber until someone signs up for it, then stays just ahead of that demand.

During a shortage the auto buy keeps running while customers wait in line for allocation. Major NATO calibers tend to get prioritized by manufacturers during a crunch, so they flow more reliably than niche rounds.

The platform labels rounds by purpose instead of by brand, which simplifies the choice for first-time gun owners. Members can set it and forget it, then log back in later and watch the stored count grow in the background.

Dan Morton frames ammunition as a tangible store of value comparable to gold and silver, something that will not go to zero. Some members have sold stored inventory back to the company when they needed cash.

The stated long-term vision is to store one billion rounds over the next ten years across roughly 10 to 20 warehouses. The aim is to position Ammo Squared as America's ammunition reserve so future shortages lose their sting.

Dan Morton previewed a next-generation platform that would let members speak or type what they want and use AI to build an ammo plan for them. The episode also touched on April Fools' products that accidentally revealed real customer demand.

Dan and Danielle Morton are the owners and founders of Ammo Squared, which they started in 2015 out of their garage and run from Boise. The company stores ammunition for members and ships it on demand, and the Mortons describe it as building an ammunition safety net for America. By this episode the business had grown to 147,000 members, recently opened a second facility in Texas, and marked its 10-year anniversary with a company of about 28 to 30 people. Danielle has said they homeschooled their three daughters and graduated their last one this year. Their stated long-term goal is to store one billion rounds of ammunition over the next ten years.

State of the Second hosts Kaylee and John sit down with John "Chappie" Chapman, founder of the Task Force 70 Foundation. Chapman has been a law enforcement officer since 1992 and has spent most of that career as a SWAT operator and a trainer. He started his first civilian training company around 1998 after noticing there was not much actual force application training going on beyond the square range. Task Force 70 began about three years ago and went public roughly four months before this recording. Its mission is to train the small-town cops who get little or no training, the officers who make up the 70% of American law enforcement working for agencies that serve fewer than 10,000 people, often 12 officers or less. The foundation takes no government money, partners with GOA and Hillsdale College, and runs on private donations.

The conversation gets into why the gap exists. Chapman walks through the three levels of police training and explains that the large departments have gotten better at training over the last 20 years while the bottom 70% rely on second- or third-hand material with no full-time training guy. He draws a hard line between qualification and training: qualification is a standardized test that a person can safely manipulate a firearm and accurately hit a target, while real police shootings turn on decision making, prudence, legal understanding, and contextual processing. Shooting, he says, is only maybe 10% of gunfighting. The foundation teaches five topics, and the first is constitutional judgment, because officers are taught case law and amendments rather than the Constitution itself, the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, and the original meaning behind the Second Amendment's "well regulated."

The episode also speaks directly to armed citizens. Chapman's advice for a traffic stop is plain: be polite, keep your hands where the officer can see them, and comply. The roadside is not the place to argue an unreasonable order; that fight belongs at the Article 3 level, in front of a judge. He tells CCW holders that having a permit is not training and urges them to seek contextual instruction, a force-on-force class, or a ride-along. He closes on trust between communities and their police, the idea that authority is responsibility rather than power, and a call for support at tf70.org/donate, where $20 a month funds training and enters donors in a monthly Bravo Company rifle giveaway.

It is a privately funded nonprofit founded by John "Chappie" Chapman to train small-town police officers who get little or no training. It targets the 70% of American law enforcement working for agencies that serve fewer than 10,000 people, often with 12 officers or less.

Large departments have improved their training over the last 20 years, but the bottom 70% rely on second- or third-hand material and have no full-time training staff. Most small agencies lack the resources for the kind of contextual instruction officers actually need.

Qualification is a standardized test that proves a person can safely manipulate a firearm and accurately hit a target. Real police shootings turn on decision making, prudence, legal understanding, and reading context, and Chapman says shooting is only about 10% of gunfighting.

Chapman's advice is to be polite, keep your hands where the officer can see them, and comply. The roadside is not the place to argue an unreasonable order; that fight belongs in front of a judge at the Article 3 level.

Officers are usually taught case law and amendments rather than the Constitution itself, the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, and the original meaning behind the Second Amendment's "well regulated." The foundation's first of five topics is constitutional judgment, which builds that missing foundation.

No. Chapman tells concealed carry holders that having a permit is not training and urges them to seek contextual instruction, a force-on-force class, or a ride-along.

The foundation takes no government money and runs entirely on private donations, partnering with Gun Owners of America and Hillsdale College. This keeps its training independent of government influence.

Supporters can give at tf70.org/donate, where $20 a month funds officer training. Each monthly donation also enters the donor in a monthly Bravo Company rifle giveaway.

John "Chappie" Chapman is the founder of the Task Force 70 Foundation. He has been a law enforcement officer since 1992, going back and forth between full time and part time, and has spent most of his career as a SWAT operator and a trainer. He has been in the firearms industry since he was a teenager, working mostly on technical expertise for product development, and started civilian training in about 1998. He has worked for a long time with Bravo Company as a gunfighter. He started Task Force 70 about three years ago and went public roughly four months before this recording; the foundation partners with GOA and Hillsdale College, where Dr. Regan is his mentor. He is now a detective after years in patrol.

Gabby Franco joins State of the Second hosts Kaylee and John for a conversation that starts with a simple message for anyone who's been shooting for years: the basics still win. Before drilling speed, she says, work precision and transitions, because most shooters rush past the fundamentals. Franco brings 30-plus years behind a gun to the table. She started as an Olympic shooter at age 11 in Venezuela, worked six years as a gun shop sales rep after moving to the United States, and competed on Top Shot in seasons four and five. That range of experience shapes how she talks about the sport, the industry, and the people in it.

Much of the episode draws on her firsthand view of Venezuela before and after socialism. She describes a country that once had stocked grocery stores and a thriving shooting culture, with the state even providing pistols and ammunition to junior athletes, and how that unraveled after Hugo Chavez came to power. Her warning to gun owners in restrictive states like California and New York is not to leave but to stay and fight, and to understand that culture shifts slowly when a generation grows up without ever learning what the Second Amendment is. She also pushes gun owners to change how they talk to people who disagree. Listen first, invite them to the range later, and let the experience do the convincing.

The back half digs into identity and the industry. Franco breaks down why she rejects the idea of a monolithic gun culture, sharing stories about a range encounter in Texas and her own family, including a mother who supported her shooting career despite firing a gun maybe once in her life. She explains why the Hispanic firearms market is growing, crediting social media and good content for chipping away at an old stigma. The episode closes from the soapbox, where Franco and the hosts make the case that supporting the Second Amendment means doing something, taking a friend shooting, backing organizations doing the work, and asking big companies in the industry to stand up openly rather than stay quiet.

Gabby Franco says most shooters rush past precision and transitions in a hurry to shoot fast. After 30-plus years behind a gun, her message is that the basics still win, so work the fundamentals before drilling speed.

Franco describes a Venezuela that once had stocked grocery stores and a thriving shooting culture, where the state even provided pistols and ammunition to junior athletes. That unraveled after Hugo Chavez came to power, which shapes her warning about how quickly a free culture can be lost.

Her advice is not to leave but to stay and fight. She argues that culture shifts slowly, and that the danger grows when a generation grows up without ever learning what the Second Amendment is.

Franco urges gun owners to change how they engage: listen first, then invite the person to the range and let the experience do the convincing. She frames a firearm as a tool whose intention, not the object itself, makes it good or bad.

Franco credits social media and good content for chipping away at an old stigma around firearms. That shift is opening the door for more Hispanic gun owners and helping grow the market.

Franco and the hosts argue that supporting the Second Amendment means doing something concrete, like taking a friend shooting or backing organizations doing the work. It is about personal responsibility, not just holding an opinion.

Franco makes the case that big companies in the industry should stand up openly for the Second Amendment rather than stay quiet. She also says egos in the industry need to come down so people support those who can do the work.

Franco started as an Olympic shooter at age 11 in Venezuela and joined the national team in 1996. After moving to the United States she worked six years as a gun shop sales rep and competed on Top Shot in seasons four and five.

Gabby Franco is a competitive shooter and firearms instructor who has been shooting for more than 30 years. Born and raised in Venezuela, she started as an Olympic shooter at age 11, joined Venezuela's national team in 1996, and competed for her country overseas. After moving to the United States, she worked at a gun shop as a sales rep for six years and went on to compete on Top Shot in seasons four and five. She holds a bachelor's degree in psychology and is finishing a master's in sport and performance psychology. She is sponsored by Primary Arms and Walther Arms. Franco can be found at gabbyfranco.com, on Twitter as @GabbyFrancoTS4, and on YouTube as Gabby Franco.

Kristen from Laser Ammo joins hosts Kaylee and John on Gun Owners of America's State of the Second to make the case for dry fire training that people will actually do. She runs marketing and social media for Laser Ammo, shoots USPSA and IDPA competition, and trains women through her own firearms business. Her core message is simple: too many people don't practice, and too many get complacent about safety. Laser Ammo is a dry fire training company that has been around since 2009, started in Israel for defensive shooters, and holds about 13 patents.

The conversation walks through how the products work. There's a drop-in laser where you rack the slide and pull the trigger, plus a partnership with Dry Fire Mag for what Laser Ammo calls the Surestrike mag, which auto-resets so you can pull the trigger without racking. The lineup also includes reactive targets with a built-in timer, recoil-enabled Airsoft guns fitted with a laser barrel, a flash bolt that replaces an AR's bolt carrier group, and the Smokeless Range home simulator. The simulator runs on a standard Windows computer with no apps needed, takes a quality projector pointed at a flat wall or screen, and ships with 10 core drills you can run solo or head-to-head, plus 13 different add-ons. Add-ons include a competition match builder you can share and the Video Scenario Trainer with branching scenarios and a hundred built-in situations. Kristen frames the value as cutting the barriers that stop busy people from practicing, like a range an hour away, bad weather, or kids at home, and points out that five or ten minutes a day fixing one flaw beats no practice at all.

The back half gets into who Kristen trains and why. She works in the women's advocacy space because women learn differently and often get talked over at the range, and she pushes them to load their own magazines, clean their own guns, and use the right terminology. John backs her up with a warning for husbands not to train their own spouses. The episode also covers practicing the full draw, including racking the slide and dropping the safety, since those are the first things to fail under pressure. On the Soapbox segment, Kristen argues that gun owners need to get involved locally and politically, vote, do their research, and have hard conversations, while Kaylee ties it to going on offense for the Second Amendment, constitutional carry, and GOA's lawsuit against the NFA. You can find Laser Ammo at laserammo.com and Kristen personally at wtfkristen.com (Women Training Firearms).

Laser Ammo is a dry fire training company founded in 2009, started in Israel for defensive shooters. It holds roughly 13 patents and builds laser-based tools that let people practice trigger work at home.

A drop-in laser fires when you rack the slide and pull the trigger, and the Surestrike mag (a partnership with Dry Fire Mag) auto-resets so you can keep pulling without racking. The Smokeless Range home simulator runs on a standard Windows computer with no apps needed.

It runs on a standard Windows computer with a quality projector aimed at a flat wall or screen, no apps required. It ships with 10 core drills you can run solo or head-to-head, plus 13 add-ons including a shareable match builder and the Video Scenario Trainer with about a hundred branching situations.

Kristen says five or ten minutes a day spent fixing one flaw beats no practice at all, and there's no rule that you have to drill for an hour. Dry fire removes the barriers that stop busy people from training, like a distant range, bad weather, or kids at home.

Kristen works in women's advocacy because women learn differently and often get talked over at the range, so she pushes them to load their own magazines, clean their own guns, and use the right terminology. Co-host John warns men flatly not to train their own spouses.

Kristen stresses practicing the full draw, including racking the slide and dropping the safety, because those mechanics are the first things to fail under stress. Building them into muscle memory through live and dry fire is what makes them hold up when it counts.

On the Soapbox segment, Kristen argues gun owners should vote, do their research, get involved locally, and have hard conversations because these issues affect everyone. Co-host Kaylee ties it to going on offense for the Second Amendment, constitutional carry, and Gun Owners of America's lawsuit against the NFA.

Laser Ammo is at laserammo.com, and Kristen's personal training business is at wtfkristen.com, which stands for Women Training Firearms.

Kristen is from Laser Ammo, where she runs the company's marketing and social media. She took her first firearms class at 18 from the San Diego Police Department because she wanted to be a cop. As a military kid she moved through Virginia and then Texas, where she joined a ladies group that led her into competition shooting. She shoots USPSA and IDPA, and became a sponsored shooter for Laser Ammo after meeting Pat and Mary Grace McMahon in competition. Her day business is marketing, and she also runs her own firearms training business focused on training women. She sits on the board of her local Republican women's group. Her personal website is wtfkristen.com, which stands for Women Training Firearms.

PTR vice president Bill Gentry joins hosts John and Kaylee in Myrtle Beach to break down the suppressor technology PTR is built around: PIP, or purposefully induced porosity. It is a 3D-printed approach Gentry describes as titanium foam or inconel foam, built as a single monolithic piece from nose to tail. He says it cannot be machined and could only be 3D printed, and that on a nine millimeter the result is a gun where the action is now louder than the shot. He frames the earliest suppressors as steel wool wrapped and banded on a barrel that worked for about five or six shots, then explains current manufacturing pushes that to a 50,000 to 60,000 round capability. Gentry believes the technology has roughly capped for now, with the better part of nine patents inside the can.

The conversation covers PTR's roots and range. The company went to Portugal about 22 years ago and bought the data packages, licensing rights, and tooling for the G3 H&K rifle, then brought manufacturing to South Carolina with a lifetime warranty. Gentry walks through PTR's law enforcement push after the Ukraine war limited H&K component shipments out of Germany, including the LE-only Breacher shotgun and its civilian counterpart the Jack, both 12 gauge AOWs. He also shows a new MP5-pattern SBR built with Magpul and Timney, shipping with a Magpul stock, Magpul handguard, ambidextrous Magpul trigger housing, a Timney two and a half pound two-stage trigger, a 50-round drum, and PTR's first cold hammer forged barrel.

Policy and culture run through the back half. Gentry expects a giant rush once the zero dollar tax stamp takes effect on January 1st, and recounts an NSSF meeting with the ATF director and deputy director where he heard the agency knew the rush was coming and was preparing for it. He shares his own story, from winning a trap shootout at 13 against the number three ranked shooter in the country, to leading Cobra and K-USA, to a smart gun chapter where he says he told off Eric Holder and shelved the technology rather than see it mandated. His through line: the firearms industry is a pack of wolves that defends its own but tears apart anyone who folds on the Second Amendment.

PIP is the suppressor technology PTR is built around, which vice president Bill Gentry describes as a titanium or inconel foam printed as a single monolithic piece from nose to tail. He says it cannot be machined and could only be 3D printed.

Gentry says PIP is so effective that on a nine millimeter the gun's own action becomes louder than the shot itself. The suppressor reduces the muzzle report below the mechanical noise of the cycling action.

Gentry says the earliest suppressors were steel wool wrapped and banded on a barrel that lasted about five or six shots, while current PTR manufacturing reaches a 50,000 to 60,000 round capability.

Gentry says PTR went to Portugal about 22 years ago and bought the data packages, licensing rights, and tooling for the G3 H&K rifle, then brought manufacturing to South Carolina with a lifetime warranty.

The Breacher and the Jack are both 12 gauge AOWs that came out of PTR's law enforcement push. The Breacher is law-enforcement-only, while the Jack is its civilian counterpart.

Gentry shows an MP5-pattern SBR shipping with a Magpul stock, Magpul handguard, an ambidextrous Magpul trigger housing, a Timney two-and-a-half-pound two-stage trigger, a 50-round drum, and PTR's first cold hammer forged barrel.

Gentry expects a giant rush once the zero dollar tax stamp takes effect on January 1st, and recounts an NSSF meeting where the ATF director and deputy director said the agency knew the rush was coming and was preparing for it.

Gentry frames the industry as a pack of wolves that defends and fights for its own with all its might, but tears apart anyone who folds on the Second Amendment. He ties this to a career that ran through Cobra, K-USA, and a smart gun chapter he shelved rather than see the technology mandated.

Bill Gentry is the vice president of PTR. He says he has been in the firearms industry for more than 25 years, and was president of Cobra Firearms for 16 years, where he says he took the company from number 27 to number 7 in the industry in four years. He went on to K-USA, helped NORMA ammunition prepare for sale before Beretta bought it, and helped bring Bushmaster back in the Reno, Nevada and Carson City area before joining PTR.

Dustin from Derya joins John and Kaylee on State of the Second to explain how a firearms brand can stand up its own name and start making guns in the United States in record time. He came to the gun industry through an accounting background. He is a CPA who worked big four public accounting at PwC after college at the University of Nevada, then joined Arms Corp / Rock Island through his longtime friend Martin Twassen during the company's hyper growth in the 2013 Obama era. He spent close to 12 years there before helping start Derya, which incorporated on March 28, 2024 and was manufacturing guns in the United States within a year.

Most of the conversation is a practical look at how Derya runs. Dustin walks through why they chose Jacksonville, Florida for the US factory: it is close to the Savannah port where shipments from Turkey land, Florida is gun friendly and manufacturer friendly, and the labor pool already had manufacturing experience. He explains the company's pricing strategy of starting low to entice buyers, backed by efficient production across over 140 CNC machines in Turkey plus US machines. The DY9 is the flagship and most popular gun, and the team moved 95% of its production from Turkey to the United States. He previews a heavy 2026 lineup: the DY9Z at a $299 MSRP with a 15 round magazine and ten colors, releasing on Black Friday, the TM22 rimfire at $249 on January 1, and a new shotgun at the end of Q1, plus several more projects.

Kaylee pushes the discussion toward women buyers, sharing her own struggle to find a concealable carry gun that fits a small hand and her advice that companies wanting to know what colors women want should look at Pinterest wedding palettes. Dustin says women are a big market for Derya and that the brand is leaning into tutorial content and a woman's perspective to make the buying experience less intimidating for first time owners. In the Soapbox segment he gives measured takes on the Glock conversation in the industry and on US manufacturing, arguing tariffs make US investment more attractive but manufacturing here is not easy, and that the United States is the deciding factor for nearly every gun design. He closes by plugging the nonprofit Walk the Talk America, which works to bridge the gap between the firearms and mental health worlds.

Dustin is a CPA who worked big four public accounting at PwC after attending the University of Nevada. His longtime friend Martin Twassen brought him into the gun industry at Arms Corp / Rock Island, where he stayed close to 12 years before helping start Derya.

Derya incorporated on March 28, 2024, and was manufacturing guns in the United States within a year of starting.

Jacksonville is close to the Savannah port where shipments from Turkey land, Florida is gun friendly and manufacturer friendly, and the local labor pool already had manufacturing experience.

Derya starts prices low to entice buyers, backed by efficient production across more than 140 CNC machines in Turkey plus US machines. Dustin says they use premium material and accept making less money than competitors rather than cutting the product.

The DY9 is Derya's flagship and most popular gun, and the team moved 95% of its production from Turkey to the United States.

Derya is launching the DY9Z at a $299 MSRP with a 15 round magazine and ten colors on Black Friday, the TM22 rimfire at $249 on January 1, and a new shotgun at the end of Q1, with several more projects to follow.

Dustin says women are a big market for Derya, so the brand leans into tutorial content and a woman's perspective to make buying a gun less intimidating for first time owners. Co-host Kaylee adds that brands wanting to know which colors women want should study Pinterest wedding palettes.

In the Soapbox segment Dustin gives measured takes on the industry's Glock conversation, and argues tariffs make US investment more attractive while warning that manufacturing here is not easy. He says the United States is the deciding factor for nearly every gun design.

Dustin works on the operations side of Derya, the firearms brand featured in this episode. He is a CPA who worked big four public accounting at PwC after attending the University of Nevada, and he was born and raised in Las Vegas. He entered the gun industry through his longtime friend Martin Twassen, joining Arms Corp / Rock Island during its growth period and staying close to 12 years before helping start Derya, which incorporated on March 28, 2024. He pitched Jacksonville, Florida as the site for the company's US factory. He is also involved with the nonprofit Walk the Talk America, where he handles the money. His last name is not stated in the episode.