Special Operations Wounded Warriors (SOWW) started the way a lot of good things do: a few guys around a campfire with a problem to solve. Joel Pellici, one of the charity's five founders, tells hosts Kaylee and John how a feral hog problem at a hunting club near Fort Bragg turned into a wild pig hunt for wounded special operators, then grew into a charity that has touched lives in the hundreds. The core idea has stayed simple from day one. Get like-minded guys who carry similar traumas out into nature, and trust that if you sit around a campfire long enough, you can fix just about anything.

Over the years SOWW built out three main programs. The original immersion in nature through hunting, fishing, sporting clays, and golf came first. After losing the man Joel calls their early poster child to suicide, the founders realized they needed to do more, so they started a canine program in his honor and added the Operator Reset, a week-long treatment for individuals dealing with PTSD, traumatic brain injury, and family issues. Joel shares the stories that stick with him, including a wounded warrior who outran everyone on a prosthetic leg and never complained, and a man on roughly 17 medications who slept without them after just three hours in the program. He also walks through how a service dog gave one veteran his purpose and protection back, opening doors as ordinary as taking his kids to Disney World.

The conversation turns to policy in the back half. Joel makes a direct argument that the government should be taking responsibility for the people it sends to war, and that nonprofits like his shouldn't have to exist to care for those who sacrificed so much. He explains the real costs behind a single service animal, between 25 and 50 thousand dollars depending on training, and how SOWW keeps 91 to 95 percent of contributions going directly to its purpose because the board takes no money by its own bylaws. He closes with the three best ways to help: donate any amount, help find people who need the program, and volunteer. The episode wraps with a gift for Joel from AAC Ammo and Palmetto State Armory.

SOWW stands for Special Operations Wounded Warriors. The charity focuses primarily on special operations personnel from all branches of US service, immersing veterans who carry similar traumas in nature and treatment programs.

It began when a feral hog problem at a hunting club near Fort Bragg turned into a wild pig hunt for wounded special operators. That hunt grew into a charity, founded by five men around the simple idea that like-minded guys around a campfire can fix just about anything.

SOWW runs immersion in nature through hunting, fishing, sporting clays, and golf; a canine service-dog program; and the Operator Reset, a week-long treatment for PTSD, traumatic brain injury, and family issues.

Founder Joel Pellici says a single service animal costs between 25 and 50 thousand dollars, depending on the level of training the dog receives.

SOWW keeps 91 to 95 percent of contributions going directly to its purpose. Its board is unpaid and the bylaws prohibit founders from taking any money.

Joel Pellici argues the government should take responsibility for the people it sends to war, and that nonprofits like SOWW shouldn't have to exist to care for those who sacrificed so much.

Veterans can self-nominate for the program, and supporters can help by finding people who need it. Joel notes that someone may be worse off than you, but that doesn't mean you don't need help too.

Joel Pellici names three: donate any amount, help find veterans who need the program, and volunteer your time. Because the board takes no pay, the bulk of every contribution reaches the mission.

Joel Pellici is one of the five founders of Special Operations Wounded Warriors (SOWW), a charity that focuses primarily on special operations personnel from all branches of US service. The organization runs three main programs: immersion in nature through hunting and fishing, a canine service-dog program, and a week-long Operator Reset treatment for individuals struggling with PTSD, traumatic brain injury, and family issues. SOWW's board is unpaid and its bylaws prohibit founders from taking money, with 91 to 95 percent of contributions going directly to its purpose. The charity has helped people in the hundreds since its founding.

Clay from Bullet Vault joins hosts Kaylee and John on Gun Owners of America's State of the Second to walk through the idea behind his company: an alternative currency and payment system built on bullets, recorded on the blockchain. Clay's argument is that an American-made, full metal jacket, consistent grain weight 9mm bullet fits the textbook definition of money. In his words it is a precious metal with functional utility that is more transferable than a bar of gold. Through Bullet Vault, a customer buys a real physical bullet, takes title to it, and the company stores it in secure warehouses that already carry the FFL and SOT requirements from its gun businesses. The owner can transfer it to a friend like a Venmo, ship it to themselves to shoot, trade it into other calibers, or sell it back to the network for liquidity. Clay says the model solves the liquidity problem that has always limited ammo as a store of value.

The conversation traces why Clay built it. He and his partners own Lone Wolf and Primary Weapon Systems, and roughly a week after closing on Lone Wolf they lost their credit card processing because their processor was backed by Bank of America, which runs periodic sweeps and drops any business near a guns or ammo SIC code. That experience, which he ties to Operation Choke Point, convinced him the payments chokehold is the real threat to the industry. He built Bullet Vault on the blockchain so it would not depend on the handful of transaction processors that made the squeeze possible, and he built it compliant with know your customer laws from the very first transaction so a future administration could not shut it down as money laundering.

Around the product talk, Clay and the hosts dig into policy and culture. Clay is hopeful but cautious about the reconciliation bill zeroing out the $200 suppressor tax stamp, and he is frustrated that Congress will not fully repeal the NFA while Republicans hold the White House and both chambers. Kaylee details GOA's two letters, one from industry manufacturers and one from influencers, pushing to remove suppressors and short barrel rifles from the NFA, plus the push to add the SHORT Act in the Senate. They also discuss Gen Z trending libertarian after COVID, GOA's 2A Defenders college program and its Chambered for Success career segment, and the shared problem of being blocked on social platforms. Clay tells his own story, from Stanford swimmer to Navy service to tech to running for governor of Georgia, and ends by pointing listeners to bulletvault.com.

Bullet Vault is an alternative currency and payment system built on real physical bullets and recorded on the blockchain. A customer buys an actual bullet and takes title to it, the company stores it in secure FFL- and SOT-licensed warehouses, and the owner can transfer it to a friend like a Venmo, ship it to themselves to shoot, trade it into other calibers, or sell it back to the network for liquidity.

Clay argues that an American-made, full metal jacket, consistent grain weight 9mm bullet fits the textbook definition of money. He frames it as a precious metal with functional utility that is more transferable than a bar of gold.

Clay built Bullet Vault on the blockchain so it would not depend on the handful of transaction processors that make the payments squeeze on the firearms industry possible. He sees that processor chokehold, not the guns themselves, as the real threat.

About a week after Clay and his partners closed on Lone Wolf, they lost their credit card processing because their processor was backed by Bank of America, which runs periodic sweeps and drops any business near a guns or ammo SIC code. Clay ties that experience directly to Operation Choke Point and the broader payments chokehold on the industry.

Clay built Bullet Vault to be compliant with know your customer laws from the very first transaction, specifically so a future administration could not shut it down as money laundering.

Gun Owners of America (GOA) runs a 2A Defenders college program and a Chambered for Success career segment, both aimed at bringing younger people into the Second Amendment movement. The hosts tie this to Gen Z trending libertarian after COVID and to the idea that culture is upstream of politics.

GOA organized two letters, one from industry manufacturers and one from influencers, pushing to remove suppressors and short barrel rifles from the NFA, plus a push to add the SHORT Act in the Senate. Clay is hopeful but cautious about the reconciliation bill zeroing out the $200 suppressor tax stamp and frustrated that Congress will not fully repeal the NFA.

Clay is a co-founder of Bullet Vault and an owner in Primary Weapon Systems and Lone Wolf. He grew up in a faith and firearms household in Georgia, swam at Stanford, served in the Navy, spent most of his career in technology, and ran for governor of Georgia.

Clay is a co-founder of Bullet Vault. He is also an owner in Primary Weapon Systems and Lone Wolf. He grew up in Georgia in a faith and firearms household, went to college at Stanford, where he swam, and served in the Navy. He worked in technology for most of his career, ran for governor of Georgia, and runs his own consulting business. He is 52 and married with two children. His brother-in-law built the Bergara rifle brand.

Tre'Von Barber joins State of the Second hosts Kaylee and John to make the case that firearms training is an investment in your life, not an optional extra. Barber walks through his own path: born and raised in Rock Hill, South Carolina, he grew up wrestling and in Boy Scouts, wrestled through college at USC Upstate, and got into guns at 21. After a back injury ended his wrestling, he went straight into competition, found a competition coach on YouTube, and started teaching concealed weapon permit and basic handgun classes about two years into gun ownership before moving up to higher-level marksmanship for competitors and law enforcement.

The conversation centers on new gun owners and how to start right. Barber explains where to find local competitions (practiscore.com), how a squad will walk a first-timer through the rules, and why reliability matters more than chasing the cheapest option. His line for cheap-gun shoppers is blunt: how cheap is your life? He pushes education over impulse buys, says there is no such thing as a girl gun, only a gun that fits your hand, and stresses that South Carolina's constitutional carry removes the permit requirement but not the responsibility to know the laws and operate safely. Kaylee ties this to GOA's view of personal responsibility, framing training, ammo, the optic, and the holster as an investment in your own value and safety.

Barber covers self-defense insurance through Right to Bear, where he now manages social media, influencers, affiliates, and content. He explains it covers both civil and criminal defense, includes a member portal and attorney access within 24 to 48 hours, and costs about $17 a month. He shares his three most-skipped drills (the five by five, the bill drill, and strong-hand/weak-hand shooting), recommends trainers and facilities like AR Tactics in Charlotte and Buck Doyle in Utah, and lays out his gear gripes as an instructor: no SERPA holsters, no cloth holsters, and always bring a belt. The episode closes on the firearms community itself, the people who lend a battery or a belt when something breaks, and Barber plugging his own business, Barber Training Solutions.

Tre'Von Barber points new shooters to practiscore.com to find local competitions. At a first match, the squad walks the newcomer through the rules, so you can show up and learn the format on the spot.

Barber says reliability matters more than chasing the cheapest option, and challenges cheap-gun shoppers with the question of how cheap your life is. He frames the gun, ammo, optic, and holster as an investment in your own safety rather than a place to cut corners.

Barber says new owners make impulse buys instead of educating themselves first. He stresses that there is no such thing as a girl gun, only a gun that fits your hand and recoils in a way you can control.

No. Barber explains that South Carolina's constitutional carry removes the permit requirement but not the responsibility to know the laws and operate safely. It is your right to defend yourself, but you still need to educate yourself.

Right to Bear's self-defense coverage handles both civil and criminal defense, includes a member portal and attorney access within 24 to 48 hours, and costs about $17 a month. Barber now manages social media, influencers, affiliates, and content for the company.

Barber's three most-skipped drills are the five by five, the bill drill, and strong-hand/weak-hand shooting. He points to these as the work people tend to avoid but shouldn't.

Barber recommends AR Tactics in Charlotte and Buck Doyle in Utah. He runs his own instruction through Barber Training Solutions, based out of Rock Hill, South Carolina.

As an instructor, Barber's gear gripes are no SERPA holsters, no cloth holsters, and always bring a belt. These are the details that get in the way of running a safe, smooth class.

Tre'Von Barber was born and raised in Rock Hill, South Carolina, and grew up wrestling and in Boy Scouts. He wrestled through college at the University of South Carolina Upstate. He got into guns at 21 and moved into competition shooting after a back injury ended his wrestling. About two years into gun ownership he began teaching concealed weapon permit and basic handgun classes, and about two years after that he started teaching higher-level marksmanship to competitors and law enforcement. After meeting Frank Cannon, a president and one of the owners of Right to Bear, he came on to run the training program at Palmetto State Armory (Right to Bear's sister company), writing new curriculums and hiring staff, then moved into a full-time Right to Bear role managing social media, influencers, affiliates, and content. He owns and runs Barber Training Solutions, based out of Rock Hill, South Carolina. He has a five-year-old child.

Joe from Desk Pop joins hosts Kaylee and John on Gun Owners of America's State of the Second to talk about how he built a firearms YouTube channel, why he sees gun content shifting from grim duty to genuine fun, and the phone call from the ATF that nearly ended both his channel and his freedom. Joe describes growing up on creators like FPS Russia, working as a gunsmith building custom rifles, and noticing a hole in the space once everything online turned into serious military-vet content. He wanted firearms to feel approachable again, and he wasn't the only one. He frames the cultural change as a younger generation rejecting the idea that you need a service record or a bolt-action rifle to belong, and instead building a welcoming community around training, competition, and the right to own what you want.

The heart of the episode is the ATF story. Joe sold two handguns in two months, both at a loss, to help fund his videos. An ATF agent he believes was named Michael called the gun shop where Joe worked, took his personal information, and told Joe he was operating as an FFL without a license by way of making firearms content online. When Joe explained he lost money on the sales, the agent said he didn't believe him, then called back an hour later threatening to send a car to pick him up unless Joe filed for an FFL. Joe and his team got their FFL SOT, an eight-month ordeal that required a member who owned a home, just to keep receiving guns for reviews. The hosts call it an attack on two constitutional rights at once, the Second Amendment and the First.

Joe also lays out life in a restrictive state. Washington's rules push him to public land to shoot, Rainier Arms has moved most of its operations to Kansas, Aero Precision nearly left before the governor offered tax exemptions to keep it, and some manufacturers refuse to ship even to a licensed dealer. He points to groups like Discovery Daddies and ASI matches as on-ramps for new shooters, urges companies to fund local range events, and argues the real long game is teaching the next generation before they reach voting age. His closing message: if you live in a free state, don't take it for granted, and vote.

Joe came up watching creators like FPS Russia and worked as a gunsmith building custom rifles. He started Desk Pop because online gun content had turned almost entirely into serious military-vet material, and he wanted firearms to feel approachable and fun again.

Joe credits a younger generation that rejects the idea you need a service record or a bolt-action rifle to belong. They are building a community around training, competition, and the right to own what you want, which makes guns feel approachable again.

An ATF agent Joe believes was named Michael called his gun shop, took his personal information, and claimed he was operating as an FFL without a license by making firearms content. When Joe said he lost money on his two gun sales, the agent didn't believe him and later threatened to send a car unless Joe filed for an FFL.

After the ATF pressured Joe to license, he and his team pursued an FFL SOT so they could keep legally receiving firearms for reviews. The eight-month process required a team member who owned a home to qualify.

Joe describes Washington as a restrictive state where some manufacturers won't ship even to a licensed dealer. The climate has pushed Rainier Arms to move most operations to Kansas and nearly drove Aero Precision out before the governor offered tax exemptions to keep it.

Joe urges companies to fund local range events and stresses teaching the next generation before they reach voting age. His closing message is that if you live in a free state, don't take it for granted, and vote.

Joe points to groups like Discovery Daddies and ASI matches as on-ramps for new shooters. He also calls on companies to fund local range events so more people have a place to start.

Joe is one of three faces of the firearms YouTube channel Desk Pop. He has been into firearms his whole life and came up through media, marketing, video, and photo work, citing FPS Russia as an early influence. He worked as a gunsmith at a gun shop building custom rifles. He started a media company at age 20 that did just over half a million dollars in revenue its first year before his business partner pushed him out. He lives in Washington and was filming in Texas at the time of recording. He and his team hold an FFL SOT, obtained last year. The channel had 80,000 subscribers at the time of the ATF call. [VERIFY current channel size]

State of the Second welcomes Mark from Vortex Optics, who walks hosts Kaylee and John through a career that started in a Washington State hunting and fishing family and ran through outdoor retail and a copywriting job at Cabela's headquarters in Sidney, Nebraska before he found Vortex. He has been with the company a little over 16 years, started in the days he calls "old Vortex" when a lot of people wore a lot of hats, and now leads the brand's podcast. He opens with rapid fire picks, including the Razor HD LHT 3-15x42 as his favorite product, a gen 3 Glock 19 for home defense, and a firm stance for Mils over MOA when he plans to dial.

The heart of the conversation is how to choose an optic and why Vortex stands behind what it sells. Mark explains the VIP warranty, which founders Dan and Margie Hamilton built on a customer-first philosophy: a lifetime, unconditional, no-fault warranty that repairs or replaces a product no matter its condition or how the damage happened. He shares warranty stories, from optics run over by trucks to a spotting scope that broke in half when it fell off a cliff and was duct-taped back together so the hunter could finish the hunt. On product selection, his advice is to start with the application, fit the choice to what you do 80% of the time, and resist the idea that more magnification is always better. He breaks down red dots, LPVOs, and higher-magnification scopes for AR use, and covers first versus second focal plane.

The episode also gets into hunting culture and recruitment, with Mark arguing that sharing wild game with people who have never hunted is one of the most powerful ways to bring the next generation in. He points to tools like onX Maps and public land access as ways for lapsed hunters to get back out, and notes that budget rifles and gear have gotten much better. He talks about Vortex's customer engagement, how repeated customer comments led to green dots in the Defender series, and the company's military work, including the David versus Goliath story behind the XM157 fire control. He closes on Vortex's steadfast support for the Second Amendment. The episode is brought to you by Patriot Mobile (code GOA), with this season's guest gift provided by Palmetto State Armory and AAC Ammo, and a plug for GOALS in Knoxville, Tennessee, August 9th and 10th.

The VIP warranty is a lifetime, unconditional, no-fault warranty that repairs or replaces a Vortex product no matter its condition or how the damage happened. Founders Dan and Margie Hamilton built it on a customer-first philosophy, and Mark stresses that unlike warranties that look good on paper, Vortex means it.

Start with the application and fit the optic to what you actually do about 80% of the time, rather than assuming more magnification is always better. Mark breaks AR options into red dots, LPVOs, and higher-magnification scopes, each suited to a different use.

Mark frames the choice around how you use the gun: red dots, LPVOs, and higher-magnification scopes each fit a different application on an AR. The guiding rule is to match the optic to what you do 80% of the time instead of chasing maximum magnification.

Mark covers the first versus second focal plane decision as part of choosing a scope, and takes a firm stance for Mils over MOA when he plans to dial.

Mark points to tools like onX Maps and public land access as ways for lapsed hunters to get back out, and notes that budget rifles and gear have gotten much better, lowering the barrier to return.

Mark argues that sharing wild game with people who have never hunted is one of the most powerful ways to bring the next generation in, calling wild game meat as natural, sustainable, and organic as it gets.

Mark explains that customer engagement drives development. Repeated customer comments are what led Vortex to add green dots to the Defender series.

Mark describes the XM157 fire control win as a David versus Goliath story, a milestone in Vortex's military work that also put the brand on TV.

Mark works at Vortex Optics, where his primary focus is the company's podcast. He was born and raised in Washington State and went to school at WSU. He grew up in a hunting and fishing family. After college he worked outdoor retail jobs, including an Orvis store and a Seattle shop called Outdoor Emporium, before taking a copywriter position at Cabela's headquarters in Sidney, Nebraska, where he later moved into the marketing and brand management department doing media relations. He has been at Vortex for a little over 16 years, starting in roles spanning media planning, media buying, media relations, sponsorships, and copywriting. He lives in the suburbs of Wisconsin and describes his area of focus at Vortex as the hunting side.

State of the Second hosts Kaylee and John sit down with Alyssa Seymour, known online as GunnyGal, and her husband Tanner. Alyssa runs a firearms YouTube channel covering competition, education, and concealed carry, with a side passion for fitness and CrossFit. Tanner is the one behind the camera and works in commercial and automotive content, including rally work and shooting in the firearm space. Together they break down how a firearms hobby crosses over with cars, overlanding, and fitness, and why those connections pull in people who would never call themselves gun people.

Most of the conversation is a practical look at building a gun channel and bringing new people into the space. Alyssa explains how she started with short cell phone clips, then pushed toward long form educational videos right after SHOT Show, and how the audience took time to follow. Tanner talks through their scripting process, how they check SEO and competition before committing to a topic, and why long form is a slow build with evergreen payoff. They cover the reality of being a woman in the space, finding a middle ground between the gun bunny and LEO/military lanes, and explaining terms in a way a newcomer can actually understand. Their advice for getting better: be safe first, handle the gun until it feels natural, treat it as a hobby and a sport rather than a tool that sits in a safe, and learn from good instructors like Rick at Ohio Range Day.

The Soapbox segment turns to the second amendment movement's weak spots. Alyssa and Tanner argue the community should lead with the fun, hobbyist side rather than politics or fear, and they tie that to international friends, including ones in Poland, who want rights they don't have. Kaylee frames rights as natural rights the Constitution protects rather than grants, and shares a story about an activist who immigrated from Australia after its gun buybacks. The pair close on censorship and YouTube demonetization, describing how nearly every video gets demonetized and appealed, and why gatekeeping firearms education leaves more people uneducated and against gun ownership.

• events.goa.org/goals

GunnyGal is firearms content creator Alyssa Seymour, who runs a YouTube channel covering competition, education, and concealed carry. She began with short cell phone clips and shifted toward long form educational videos right after SHOT Show.

Alyssa and her husband Tanner frame guns as one part of a broader hobbyist lifestyle that connects to cars, overlanding, and fitness like CrossFit. Those crossover interests pull in people who would never call themselves gun people.

Alyssa works to find a middle ground between the gun bunny and the LEO/military lanes, focusing on clear education instead of either stereotype. She aims to explain terms so a newcomer can understand a video without needing another source.

Alyssa moved from short cell phone clips to long form educational videos after SHOT Show, and the audience took time to follow. Tanner describes long form as a slow build with evergreen payoff, so creators should not expect quick success.

Their scripting process includes checking SEO and competition to find gaps before committing to a topic. Tanner still advises starting with something you are passionate about, regardless of how searchable it is.

Be safe first, then handle the gun until it feels natural, and treat it as a hobby and a sport rather than a tool that sits in a safe. Alyssa and Tanner also recommend learning from good instructors, like Rick at Ohio Range Day.

Alyssa and Tanner argue the community should lead with the fun, hobbyist side of guns rather than politics or fear. They point to international friends, including ones in Poland, who want rights they do not have.

Alyssa and Tanner say nearly every video gets demonetized and then appealed, which penalizes creators for trying to educate. They argue that gatekeeping firearms education leaves more people uneducated and against gun ownership.

Alyssa Seymour is a firearms content creator known online as GunnyGal. She runs a YouTube channel focused on firearms, competition, education, and concealed carry, and is also active on Instagram. She competes in both firearms and CrossFit, started in tactical games, and is moving into USPSA this year. Her husband Tanner is behind the camera and works in commercial and automotive content, including rally work, shooting in the firearm space for almost eight years, and work with brands such as Porsche AG. Neither of their families were gun people growing up; Tanner introduced Alyssa to firearms. Her YouTube is Alyssa Seymour and her Instagram is @thegunnygal.

State of the Second sits down with Kurt from TCRT Targets, the company behind self-healing rubber targets built for the home range. Kurt walks through how the product came to be. TCRT spent about three years on a proprietary rubber formulation made specifically for ballistics, rather than repurposing rubber from another use. The targets are rated for roughly 400 rounds of 5.56 per square inch, and Kurt has seen targets take 15,000 to 20,000 rounds and keep going. He has shot them with everything from 9mm and .45 up to .308, and recently put 50 BMG through them with a friend named Lucas who is now at Barrett. The rubber is waterproof and UV resistant, and it held up after two years in the Arizona sun without dry rotting, so you can leave a full setup outdoors.

The bigger pitch is about how you train. Because the targets are light and the Range Flex stand system is modular, Kurt says you can build a whole course of fire for about the cost of one full-size steel torso target. He paints targets different colors and assigns hit counts, offsets them at different heights and distances, and even makes shooters do math mid-string so they cannot just game a plate rack. Setups tear down fast and roll up to throw in a car, which makes a real home range or a competition-style stage easy for a family or a group of friends.

The soapbox turns to Second Amendment advocacy. Kurt agrees that politicians who advocate against the Second Amendment are violating their oath, but his sharper point is about how the gun community communicates. He argues that facts and figures alone do not move people who are scared, and that yelling "shall not be infringed" lands as nothing to someone who disagrees. The win is changing hearts and minds over the long game while GOA works the front lines in Washington. Kaylee ties it to GOA and GOF education work on college campuses and the Two A Adventure Chronicles, plus the on-ramp of taking a gun-curious person to the range for a safe, fun first experience. Kurt closes with the overlap he sees between the overland and firearms communities and a two-and-a-half-hour conversation with a California liberal that stayed respectful because it happened face to face. He offers code GOA15 for 15% off at tcrt.com and points listeners to GOALS in Knoxville.

• events.goa.org/goals

TCRT spent about three years developing a proprietary rubber formulation made specifically for ballistics, rather than repurposing rubber from another use. The targets are also waterproof and UV resistant.

The targets are rated for roughly 400 rounds of 5.56 per square inch, and Kurt has seen them take 15,000 to 20,000 rounds and keep going. He has run everything from 9mm and .45 up to .308, and even put 50 BMG through them.

Yes. TCRT's rubber is waterproof and UV resistant, and a setup held up after two years in the Arizona sun without dry rotting, so a full course can be left outdoors.

The targets are light and the Range Flex stand system is modular, so for about the cost of one full-size steel torso target you can build a whole course of fire. Setups tear down fast and roll up to throw in a car.

Kurt paints targets different colors and assigns hit counts, offsets them at different heights and distances, and makes shooters do math mid-string so they cannot just game a plate rack.

Kurt agrees that politicians who advocate against the Second Amendment (2A) are violating their oath, but his sharper point is that the gun community needs to change how it communicates rather than just calling out the oath.

Kurt argues that facts and figures alone do not move people who are scared, and that yelling "shall not be infringed" lands as nothing to someone who disagrees. The real win is changing hearts and minds over the long game.

Kurt sees a heavy overlap between the overland and firearms communities, and points to a respectful two-and-a-half-hour conversation with a California liberal that stayed civil because it happened face to face.

Kurt is from TCRT Targets, which makes self-healing rubber targets. He has worked in the firearms industry since about 2016 and is the director of marketing for Faxon and a couple of other companies in the firearm space. He started with TCRT in 2023 to stand up a consumer product line in the U.S. and helped with R&D on it. Before that, TCRT had worked largely in the military and law enforcement space on contracts.

State of the Second hosts John and Kaylee sit down with Jared from Sonoran Desert Institute (SDI) for a conversation about the state of gunsmithing in 2025 and how new people get into the trade. Jared is SDI's chief academic officer. SDI is an online college that teaches gunsmithing and uncrewed technology like drone piloting and fleet administration. The episode opens with a rapid fire segment covering Jared's everyday carry, a strict no-impulse-buy rule he shares with his wife, a 3D-printed articulated chicken for his daughter, and a recent weekend spent finishing one of his own rifles.

Most of the episode digs into why gunsmiths are getting harder to find and what that means for the industry. Jared explains that the old path into the trade, picking up mechanical skills through shop class, farm machinery, or working on cars, has thinned out as schools dropped shop and home ec. Many students now arrive wanting to build a gun they saw in a video game, with no base hands-on skills. At the same time, veteran gunsmiths are passing away, and the next generation hasn't fully stepped in. SDI's answer is online education that ships a lab to the student's living room so the hands-on work still happens. Jared and the hosts also walk through the rise of faceless, factory-driven design, the loss of named gunsmith legends like P.O. Ackley and Elmer Keith, and why people are starting to crave bespoke, personal work again.

Jared makes the case that gunsmithing teaches transferable skills, woodworking, welding, machining, metal finishing, that lead graduates into many industries, and that the trades broadly are short on people, the same way it's hard to find a plumber right now. He frames education as a baseline plus continuous learning, not a finish line at graduation. On the policy side, he notes SDI operates in roughly 46 states, sometimes blocked by firearms law and sometimes by education law, and praises states like Arkansas for putting firearms education back into public schools. The episode closes with where to find SDI (SDI.edu and social), a guest gift from Palmetto State Armory and AAC Ammo, and a reminder about the GOALS summit in Knoxville, Tennessee on August 9th and 10th.

• events.goa.org/goals

Sonoran Desert Institute is an online college that teaches gunsmithing along with uncrewed technology like drone piloting and fleet administration. It keeps the trade hands-on by shipping a physical lab to the student so the practical work still happens at home.

The old on-ramp of building mechanical skills through shop class, farm machinery, or working on cars has thinned out as schools dropped shop and home economics. At the same time veteran gunsmiths are passing away and the next generation has not fully stepped in, so many students now arrive with no base hands-on skills.

SDI sends a lab kit to each student so the hands-on portion of gunsmithing happens in their own living room. As Jared puts it, the school can place both the classroom and the lab where the student already is.

Gunsmithing builds transferable trade skills like woodworking, welding, machining, and metal finishing that lead graduates into many industries. Jared frames the trades broadly as short on people, the same way it is hard to find a plumber right now.

The industry has shifted toward faceless, factory-driven design, and named gunsmith legends like P.O. Ackley and Elmer Keith have passed without clear successors. Jared and the hosts note that demand for bespoke, personal work is starting to return as a result.

SDI operates in roughly 46 states, sometimes blocked by firearms law and sometimes by education law. Jared praises states like Arkansas for putting firearms education back into public schools.

Many first-time owners do not realize a firearm can be customized and made their own, which is part of why demand for bespoke work is growing. The episode frames customization and personal work as increasingly accessible rather than reserved for specialists.

His everyday carry is a Smith & Wesson Shield or a Smith & Wesson airweight revolver. The Shield is engraved and tied to his old school, which gives it personal meaning.

Jared is the chief academic officer at Sonoran Desert Institute (SDI), an online college that teaches gunsmithing and uncrewed technology such as drone piloting and fleet administration. He came to SDI about four years ago, and before that worked with an on-ground school in Colorado in the gunsmithing space. Earlier in his career he worked in the watch and jewelry industry. He is former military and holds multiple degrees. His everyday carry is a Smith & Wesson Shield, engraved and tied to his old school, or a Smith & Wesson airweight revolver. His daughter raises chickens for 4-H.

State of the Second hosts John and Kaylee sit down with Grant from Mantis, a firearms training company that uses technology to help shooters get better. Grant explains the core idea behind the products: assess your trigger press, tell you what you're doing wrong, and tell you how to fix it, all to improve marksmanship and gun handling. Safety comes first and effectiveness second. He walks through the lineup on the table, including the Blackbeard, an X10 that drops into your AR as a bolt carrier group and charging handle so your own rifle becomes the training tool. It resets your trigger, sends a laser downrange, and gives feedback on your trigger press. A dedicated training gun and a 3D-printed pistol prototype with a realistic Legion-style trigger round out the demo.

The conversation digs into why dry fire with feedback matters. Grant compares it to the jump from film photography to digital: you can now see what you did wrong and fix the root of the problem instead of compensating for it. He's clear that Mantis does not replace live fire or simunitions, and he encourages people to train with a qualified instructor. The tools save ammo and range time and let shooters work on fundamentals like grip, sight picture, and trigger press before they ever load a round. He covers what's coming next, including augmented reality that scans up to 10,000 square feet of a space and drops in targets, heart-rate monitors, shock pads, and a physical device for round count that would open up mag changes and more dynamic drills.

The back half turns personal and political. Grant is originally from Regina, Saskatchewan, and is now an American citizen. He talks about Canada banning AR-style rifles using an event where, he says, no ARs were used and none of the firearms involved were legally obtained. That experience is a big part of why he supports the Second Amendment. He and the hosts discuss the leaderboards and community Mantis builds, float the idea of a GOA group, and talk about how working in the firearms industry can get you treated differently or quietly pushed out of other fields. Grant left the high-end spa business at the peak of his career to chase work he loves, and his advice to anyone weighing a similar leap is simple: it's scary, but it's worth it. The episode wraps with details on finding Mantis at GOALS, booth 900.

• events.goa.org/goals

Mantis is a firearms training company that uses technology to help shooters improve their marksmanship and gun handling. It assesses your trigger press, tells you what you're doing wrong, and shows you how to fix it, with safety first and effectiveness second.

The Blackbeard is an X10 that drops into your AR in place of the bolt carrier group and charging handle, so your own rifle becomes the training tool. It resets your trigger, sends a laser downrange, and gives feedback on your trigger press.

No. Grant is clear that Mantis does not replace live fire or simunitions and encourages training with a qualified instructor. The tools save ammo and range time by letting shooters work on grip, sight picture, and trigger press before loading a round.

Grant describes a physical round-count device that would open up mag changes and more dynamic drills, plus heart-rate monitors and shock pads. The augmented reality system scans up to 10,000 square feet of a space and drops in targets.

Grant left the high-end spa business at the peak of his career to chase work he loves. His advice to anyone weighing a similar leap is that it's scary, but it's worth it.

Grant, originally from Regina, Saskatchewan and now an American citizen, points to Canada banning AR-style rifles over an event where, he says, no ARs were used and none of the firearms involved were legally obtained. That experience is a big part of why he supports the Second Amendment.

Mantis builds leaderboards and community around its training, and Grant and the hosts float the idea of a Gun Owners of America group. The whole goal is to motivate people to practice.

Grant points listeners to Mantis at the Gun Owners Action Leadership Summit (GOALS), booth 900.

Grant works for Mantis, a firearms training company that uses technology to help people train and improve their marksmanship and gun handling. He was a Mantis customer before he joined the company. He came from running very high-end spas and was at the pinnacle of that career before switching industries. He is originally from Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada, and is now an American citizen. He is left-handed and has an 11-year-old daughter. His company role/title was not stated in this episode [VERIFY].

Tracy Lee, known online as Tracy Guns, joins John and Kaylee on State of the Second to talk about how she found her way into firearms and what the industry still gets wrong about women. Tracy grew up in Texas until she was 8, then in Sacramento with a liberal mother, and moved to Las Vegas to expand a business sending photographers to nightclubs. She traveled the world with the UFC as a cage-side photographer, built a relationship with a Las Vegas gun store, and started bringing UFC fighters there to shoot. She took her first firearms and CCW class in 2015, got hooked on real training, separated her gun content into the Tracy Guns account, and is now coming up on 10 years in the space.

The heart of the episode is Tracy's advice for women getting into the shooting sports. Her two biggest points: don't be intimidated by people who tell you things have to be done a certain way, and don't believe anyone who says your first gun needs to be tiny. At Annie Oakley events and National Women's Range Day she handed women a bigger gun first and then a smaller one, and they consistently shot a Glock 19 or a P320 better than a subcompact like a P365, a 43X, or a Hellcat. A small gun has more recoil and is one of the hardest things a new shooter can start on. Tracy and Kaylee also push the value of women-only range days, finding good mentors, getting real training, and the point that a guy usually can't teach his own wife or girlfriend to shoot.

The second half gets into culture and carry. Tracy talks about firearms censorship on social media, the workarounds gun creators used to dodge the algorithm, and how George Floyd and the climate in 2020 and 2021 shifted public tolerance toward firearms and self-protection. She closes with a CVS confrontation that became a lesson in concealed-carry responsibility: as a CCW holder she has to keep her cool, stay aware, and never escalate, because carrying a firearm raises the stakes on every situation. John reinforces that this mindset is what younger carriers need to learn. Tracy points listeners to Tracy Guns across platforms and to the Clapper app, and the show wraps with a plug for GOALS in Knoxville, August 9th and 10th.

• events.goa.org/goals

Tracy Lee grew up in Texas and Sacramento, ran a business sending photographers to nightclubs, and traveled the world with the UFC as a cage-side photographer. She built a relationship with a Las Vegas gun store, took her first firearms and CCW class in 2015, got hooked on real training, and is now coming up on 10 years in the space.

Tracy says don't be intimidated by people who insist things have to be done a certain way, and don't believe anyone who tells you your first gun needs to be tiny. She also points to women-only range days, finding a good mentor, and getting real training as the fastest way to build real skill.

A small gun has more recoil and is one of the hardest things a new shooter can start on. At women's events Tracy handed shooters a bigger gun first, and they consistently shot a Glock 19 or a P320 better than a subcompact like a P365, a 43X, or a Hellcat.

Tracy and co-host Kaylee push women-only range days, such as National Women's Range Day, as a lower-pressure place to learn from good mentors and get real training. Tracy's blunt take is that a man usually can't teach his own wife or girlfriend to shoot, so an outside instructor works better.

Tracy describes ongoing firearms censorship on social platforms and the workarounds gun creators used to dodge the algorithm. She ties a shift in public tolerance toward firearms and self-protection to the climate of 2020 and 2021.

Tracy says George Floyd and the broader climate of 2020 and 2021 moved public tolerance toward firearms and self-protection, drawing more people, including women, toward owning and carrying.

Tracy recounts a CVS confrontation as a lesson in concealed-carry responsibility: a CCW holder has to keep their cool, stay aware, and never escalate, because carrying a firearm raises the stakes on every situation. Co-host John reinforces that this mindset is what younger carriers most need to learn.

Tracy points listeners to Tracy Guns across Instagram, X, Facebook, and TikTok, as well as the Clapper app. The episode also plugs the Gun Owners Action Leadership Summit (GOALS) in Knoxville on August 9th and 10th.

Tracy Lee, known online as Tracy Guns, is a firearms content creator and shooter based in Las Vegas, Nevada. She grew up in Texas until she was 8 and then in Sacramento, ran a business sending photographers to nightclubs, and traveled the world with the UFC as a cage-side photographer. She took her first firearms and CCW class in 2015 and is coming up on 10 years actively involved in firearms, shooting, and training. She competes in rifle and AK matches, has run full-auto ranges at women's events including National Women's Range Day, and appeared on the TV show American Air Gunner Challenge. She carries a P365 as her EDC and is active on Instagram, X, Facebook, TikTok, and the Clapper app.