What happens after you leave religion — but still feel a deep pull toward meaning, ritual, spirituality, or transcendence? In this conversation, Bill Reel and Britt Hartley sit down with religious ethicist and author Liz Bucar to explore what fills the vacuum when traditional faith falls away. From modern wellness culture and yoga to psychedelics, embodiment, and moral pressure, we ask hard questions about where people turn next — and whether those new spaces truly free us or quietly recreate the same dynamics we thought we escaped. Liz shares insights from her work and her book Beyond Wellness, examining how even “spiritual but not religious” communities can reproduce shame, hierarchy, and invisible expectations — often without realizing it.

Together, we explore:

This is an honest, thoughtful, and deeply human conversation for anyone navigating life after faith — especially those who are intellectually out but still feel emotionally or culturally tethered to their religious past. If you’ve ever wondered why leaving belief didn’t automatically bring peace… this episode helps explain why

00:02:41 – Who is Liz Bucar and how she became a religious ethicist
00:04:13 – Why Liz wrote Beyond Wellness
00:07:01 – What modern wellness culture gets wrong
00:12:22 – When spirituality becomes moral pressure
00:16:45 – Stealing from religion ethically
00:22:38 – What secular people often miss after deconstruction
00:30:14 – Yoga, embodiment, and deeper spiritual practice
00:38:52 – Psychedelics, meaning-making, and ethical use
00:49:41 – Authority, experience, and who gets to decide truth
01:00:27 – Why humans still crave ritual and transcendence
01:10:36 – Advice for those intellectually out but emotionally tethered
01:17:39 – Reflections on Beyond Wellness and modern spirituality
01:19:26 – Britt & Bill reflect on Liz’s insights