Tonight on Mormonism Live, we tackle one of the most persistent and uncomfortable questions in modern Mormon scholarship: What does DNA actually say about the Book of Mormon? Our guest is Dr. Thomas W. Murphy, anthropologist, award-winning scholar, and author of Unsettling Scripture: Iroquois and the Book of Mormon. Dr. Murphy’s latest presentation, “DNerAsure: Unsettling Science & Scripture” DNerAsure – Unsettling Science, challenges both apologetic narratives and oversimplified dismissals of the DNA debate.

What We Discuss
The acknowledged lack of Middle Eastern DNA in ancient and modern Indigenous American populations
Why the science is not “settled” in the way many assume
The apologetic argument that Book of Mormon DNA may have “disappeared” over time
Why autosomal DNA makes total genetic erasure extraordinarily implausible
The limited geography model and why it does not solve the DNA problem The ethics of Indigenous DNA collection — including BYU’s controversial accumulation of Indigenous genetic samples
The concept of a “Galileo Event” and whether Mormonism is approaching one How racialized readings of scripture intersect with real Indigenous identities

In this episode, we step into one of the most provocative and uncomfortable chapters ever written about Joseph Smith — “The Don Juan of Nauvoo,” from Dr. W. Wyl’s 1886 exposé. These are not modern critics looking backward with hindsight. These are men and women living in Utah in the late 1800s — people who lived through Nauvoo, who knew Joseph personally, who saw the culture firsthand, and who were willing to share their memories of Joseph’s behavior with women. Their recollections paint a portrait very different from the sanitized image often presented today. We will read their words directly. Their observations. Their accusations. Their recollections of Joseph’s charisma, his influence, and his interactions with women in Nauvoo. This episode isn’t about speculation. It’s about historical memory — and how Joseph Smith’s contemporaries understood him.

You’ll hear:

Whether you see Joseph Smith as prophet, fraud, or something in between, these firsthand recollections provide a window into how he was experienced by those who lived in his shadow.

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Was Joseph Smith’s relationship with Fanny Alger an early plural marriage, a sexless sealing, or a scandalous sexual affair?

Long before Nauvoo polygamy, secret sealings, or theological justifications, there was Fanny Alger; a teenage girl living in Joseph and Emma Smith’s home in Kirtland, Ohio.

When the relationship was discovered, it triggered scandal, apostasy, and one of the earliest crises in Mormon leadership.

In this episode, we start by taking a look into the life of Fanny Alger sharing details of her life that are little known even to those familiar with Mormon history. We then examine every major historical source connected to the Fanny Alger story including letters, later reminiscences, church disciplinary records. Then onto the Apologetics and what they are trying to resolve. And lastly we share something that hasn’t been used by either side in this discussion and this you won’t want to miss.

We ask the uncomfortable questions:
• Why did Oliver Cowdery call the incident a “dirty, nasty, filthy scrape”?
• Why did church leaders discipline Cowdery for accusing Joseph of adultery — without denying the accusation itself?
• Why does Fanny Alger quietly disappear from official church records for decades?
• And do apologetic claims that “we can’t know what happened” actually hold up?

We also follow Fanny’s life after Mormonism; her marriage, property ownership, and long, stable adulthood and ask what her silence might tell us about power, authority, and who controls the narrative. This is not folklore. This is not anti-Mormon spin. This is history read carefully.

RESOURCES:
https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2026/02/Fanny-Alger-Episode-Sources-1.pdf

Did Joseph Smith’s understanding of God come through divine revelation — or did it evolve alongside his education? In this episode of Mormonism Live, we examine one of the most important and least discussed developments in early Mormon history: the dramatic shift in Joseph Smith’s theology of the Godhead. Using early Mormon scriptures, historical documents, and Joseph’s own study journals, we walk through how the earliest teachings portrayed God as a single divine being, closely resembling early Christian modalism. We then trace a clear timeline showing how those teachings changed over time — especially following Joseph Smith’s intensive study of Hebrew in Kirtland, Ohio. As Joseph learned Hebrew grammar, biblical structure, and concepts such as Elohim as a plural noun, Mormon theology began to change with it. The singular God of the Book of Mormon and Book of Moses gradually gave way to a plurality of Gods, divine councils, embodied deities, and ultimately the revolutionary teachings found in the King Follett Discourse.
This episode explores:

Whether you are believing, doubting, or long past Mormonism, this episode offers a thoughtful, historically grounded look at how doctrine develops — and why that development still matters today.

The LDS Church teaches that its top leaders are prophets, seers, and revelators; men who speak for God and whose guidance deserves trust, obedience, and moral authority. When serious problems arise in Church history, doctrine, or policy, the most common explanation offered is simple: prophets are fallible. But does that explanation actually resolve the issue? In this episode of Mormonism Live, we take a step back and examine what prophetic fallibility is being asked to accomplish, and whether it truly holds up under scrutiny.

We walk through multiple categories where prophetic authority is expected to function reliably and where the Church and its apologists claim fallibility resolves the concerns, including:

Using clear historical examples including Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, modern prophets, and recent institutional decisions, we show how the same explanation is repeatedly used to absorb contradiction, reverse teachings, and excuse harm. Along the way, we ask the question that often goes unspoken: If prophets can confidently teach error, attribute it to God, and only later have it reclassified as opinion or mistake… how is anyone supposed to know when God is actually speaking? Fallibility may explain why mistakes happen — but it does not explain how members are meant to trust leaders in real time. Rather than attacking belief, this episode carefully examines whether the prophetic model itself functions as advertised — and what it means when authority becomes clear only in hindsight. This is not about expecting perfection. It’s about whether divine authority can be trusted to guide human lives safely, honestly, and consistently.

Mormonism Live is honored to host the 2025 Brodie Awards, an annual event dedicated to recognizing excellence, courage, insight, and impact in the world of Mormon-related scholarship, commentary, media, and creative work. Named after historian Fawn M. Brodie, the Brodie Awards exist to spotlight voices—both established and emerging—who meaningfully contribute to public understanding of Mormonism. These awards are about acknowledging thoughtful analysis, original research, compelling storytelling, and principled engagement with a complex tradition. The 2025 Brodie Awards Ceremony will feature the 2025 award categories and nominees, an announcement of the 2025 winner in each category, and shining a light on the impact of the winner’s work. Our goal is simple: to elevate quality creators around the topic of Mormonism and raise awareness of creators who are contributing something genuinely valuable to the broader discussion around Mormonism. For those interested in the history of these awards please check out the Sunstone presentation about history of the Brodie Awards found here: https://mainstreetplaza.com/2024/08/08/post-mormon-media-past-present-and-future/ The Brodie Awards were founded and are operated by Main Street Plaza, A Community for Anyone Interested in Mormonism. This year’s ceremony Hosted by Bill Reel and Radio Free Mormon on Mormonism Live!

Links to all Brodie Awards Nominations https://mainstreetplaza.com/2025/12/03/collecting-nominations-for-the-2025-brodie-awards/

We dig into one of the lesser-known but deeply revealing historical sources from early Mormonism: the Fayette Lapham interview with Joseph Smith Sr. Lapham’s account places Joseph Smith’s father in conversation about the earliest days of the movement — before the Church had polished narratives, before later offices were cleanly defined, and before memory had decades to smooth out the rough edges. What emerges is a version of early Mormon leadership that feels far less settled and far more experimental than most members were ever taught. One claim in particular raises eyebrows: the suggestion that Joseph Smith may have identified or spoken of twelve apostles years before the traditionally accepted 1835 calling. Was this an early attempt at organization? A loose use of terminology? Or a later memory shaped by what the Church eventually became? We walk carefully through the evidence, the problems, and the implications — without overstating the case and without pretending the question isn’t uncomfortable. As always, we separate what the sources actually say from what later narratives need them to say. We look at how early language was used, how memory works, and why moments like this matter when trying to understand how Mormonism developed in real time rather than in hindsight. If you care about early Mormon history, shifting priesthood structures, and how institutional stories get built — sometimes retroactively — this is an episode you won’t want to miss.

RESOURCES:
https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/license-for-john-whitmer-9-june-1830/1
https://archive.org/details/volume-1_202010/page/456/mode/2up
https://books.google.com/books/download/The_Historical_Magazine_and_Notes_and_Qu.pdf?id=x7MTAAAAYAAJ&output=pdf

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Time to Vote for X-MoOTY and the Brodie Awards 2025!! https://mainstreetplaza.com/2026/01/01/time-to-vote-for-x-mooty-and-the-brodie-awards-2025/

Join us on New Year’s Eve for a special episode of Mormonism Live. We’ll look back at the biggest Mormon news stories of the year from The Mormon Newscast and reveal the Top 5 stories you voted for. We’ll also dig into a few late-breaking developments, including the passing of Elder Holland.

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Join us this Christmas Eve for the Third Annual Radio Free Mormon Christmas Eve Party. RFM will be joined by over Mormon influencers from the Mormon and post-Mormon space, and maybe even a few surprises! Get stocked up on eggnog and gingerbread cookies! Stay up with RFM and watch the stars come out! This is going to be a blast!

Thomas murphy
https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/V58N04_2.pdf
https://uofupress.com/books/unsettling-scripture/

David Whitmer is one of the Three Witnesses of the Book of Mormon, but his life after Mormonism raises some of the most challenging questions anyone serious about truth claims has to wrestle with. He broke with Joseph Smith. He rejected Brigham Young. He condemned polygamy, secret combinations, and priesthood hierarchy. And yet, for nearly sixty years, he never denied seeing the angel or the plates. In this episode of Mormonism Live, we take a careful, historically grounded look at David Whitmer’s life and testimony. We explore what he actually claimed to see, how he described the experience, why he believed the church went off course, and why skeptics and believers alike kept coming to him for answers. We examine the moments that test his credibility, the consistency of his witness, and the uncomfortable tension between affirming the Book of Mormon while rejecting the institution built around it. If you’ve ever wondered how to weigh the testimony of a witness who walked away from the church but never walked away from the plates, this episode is for you. 

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