In this powerful and deeply personal episode, Will welcomes Jason Stout, founder of Stoutreach, to share his story of grief, healing, and the outdoors. Jason opens up about experiencing multiple profound losses as a child—including the deaths of his sister, grandmother, and father—and how those early tragedies shaped the course of his life.

Jason describes how time in nature helped him begin to heal and led him to dedicate his career to supporting others who are grieving. From guiding wilderness expeditions for teens who have lost loved ones to facilitating peer support programs for military families and veterans, Jason has developed a unique and impactful model that blends outdoor experiences with emotional healing. His work was recently recognized with the 2024 Richard Louv Prize for Innovation in Nature Connection.

Will also reflects briefly on the recent passing of his own father and the ways in which the outdoors continues to offer space for connection and reflection.

This episode explores the intersection of grief, nature, and human resilience—reminding us that while loss is universal, healing is possible when we reconnect with ourselves, each other, and the natural world.

Learn more about Jason’s work at missionstoutreach.org.

Discover upcoming men’s retreats that our podcast host, Will White is faciliating at WMAI.org.

In this episode, Will welcomes Brandon Moffitt, Executive Director and Co-Founder of Black Mountain Academy in North Carolina. Brandon shares his journey from working in wilderness therapy to founding Black Mountain Academy, a specialized therapeutic school for neurodivergent students. He discusses the importance of integrating academic, social, and therapeutic support for adolescents with learning differences and neurodevelopmental challenges. He also highlights how outdoor experiences play a crucial role in fostering confidence, resilience, and social engagement among students.

Brandon also introduces Intrepid Young Adults, Black Mountain Academy’s new program designed to help young adults transition into independence with structured support in academics, career exploration, and life skills. He shares insights into how outdoor activities, such as hiking, fishing, and community engagement, provide essential opportunities for growth and self-discovery. Brandon also reflects on the resilience of students and staff following a devastating flood, the role of community service in their therapeutic model, and the evolving landscape of neurodivergent education. This episode is packed with wisdom for parents, educators, and professionals working in therapeutic education and outdoor mental health.

In this engaging conversation, Will welcomes back Katie Asmus, founder of the Somatic Nature Therapy Institute, to discuss the evolution of her work integrating nature-based therapy, somatic awareness, and rites of passage. Over the past five years, her practice has expanded significantly, growing into a group practice and training center that helps therapists incorporate nature therapeutically. Katie highlights how nature supports emotional regulation, trauma healing, and overall well-being, explaining how the accessibility of nature-based therapy has grown, especially post-pandemic. She discusses the various ways her institute trains therapists and clients, from individualized nature sessions to immersive wilderness quests, emphasizing the power of integrating nature into mental health care.

Katie also reflects on the broader shifts in the field, noting an increasing demand for nature-informed therapy and a shift away from traditional office-based treatment models. She discusses her work with clients, including a powerful session where a grieving client found solace by sharing her emotions with a tree. She distinguishes between nature therapy, adventure therapy, and wilderness therapy, advocating for an approach that fosters deep relationships with the natural world rather than focusing on high-adventure activities. Looking ahead, she anticipates a continued mainstreaming of nature-based therapy, making it more accessible and sustainable for both clients and therapists alike.

To learn more about Katie and the Somatic Nature Therapy Institute- check out https://www.somaticnaturetherapy.com/

To listen to Katies Previous episode on Stories from the Field check out- our podcast page- Katie was episode 81!

In this episode Will talks with Dr. Anita Tucker and Dr. Christine Norton about the transformation of the Outdoor Behavioral Healthcare Research Center into the newly established Outdoor Research Collaborative for Health, Wellbeing, and Experiential Engagement (ORC) at the University of New Hampshire. The ORC's mission is to expand research efforts beyond wilderness therapy to encompass a wider array of outdoor-based mental health interventions, including community-based programs, trauma-informed practices, and experiential engagement. Dr. Tucker and Dr. Norton explain how the ORC is creating a more inclusive research environment by incorporating diverse voices, including former clients, and prioritizing diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging (DEIB) to better reflect the evolving field of outdoor therapy.

The conversation delves into the ORC's collaborative research efforts with programs across the country, from wilderness therapy to outpatient adventure-based counseling, and highlights the growing interest in nature-based mental health interventions post-pandemic. The ORC's strategic planning process involved engaging various stakeholders to ensure the research center's direction aligns with the field's needs. The episode also explores how outdoor therapy can reduce practitioner burnout and discusses the importance of research accessibility for practitioners and clients alike. Listeners will gain insight into the field’s future, the role of community-based programming, and how the ORC continues to build trust and foster innovation through research and collaboration.

Stories from the Field is sponsored by White Mountain Adventure Institute.

Helpful links to learn more about information shared in this episode:

Outdoor Research Collaborative Website 

Dr. Tucker talks about her background and the OBH Center in 2018 on Stories from the Field.

Dr. Norton talks about her background and her work at the OBH Center in 2019 on Stories from the Field.

Dr. Noton talks about research at the OBH Center about transporting young people to wilderness therapy programs in 2021.

Dr. Mike Gass talks about the OBH Center and its research and focus in 2021.

Dr. Tucker and Dr. Norton talk on the podcast Therapy +

Want to listen to an outdoor therapy session?  In this episode Will embarks on a personal experiment inspired by Reid Hoffman’s new book, Superagency. After reading about AI’s potential role in mental health, Will decided to test whether an AI chatbot could function as a real-time outdoor mental health counselor. While hiking and skiing in the backcountry, he engaged in a structured conversations with an AI therapist he named “Diane,” trained in cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) and recorded it. The session provided insights into processing emotions, adjusting to life transitions, and engaging more deeply with the natural environment. Will shares his experience, reflecting on the possibilities and limitations of AI in supporting mental well-being during outdoor activities.

The episode explores the growing demand for mental health services and how AI could help bridge the gap by providing low-cost, accessible support. AI tools, unlike human therapists, are always available and free from biases or emotional fatigue. However, Will also discusses the limitations of AI therapy, including its lack of human empathy, inability to respond to crises, and potential privacy concerns. While AI may not replace traditional therapy, it could serve as a valuable supplement for those seeking guidance in outdoor settings. The episode closes with a thought-provoking question: Would you use an AI mental health companion while hiking, skiing, or walking in the woods?

Our podcast underwriter is White Mountain Adventure Institute-(WMAI.org)

What can ancient myths teach us about group dynamics, leadership, and mental health? In this episode Will sits down with Brant Evans (pen name Brant Elwood), co-author of Gods, Heroes, and Groups, to explore how timeless stories offer powerful insights into modern therapy and leadership. Drawing from his experiences as a wilderness therapy field guide, an executive director in recovery programs, and now a therapeutic consultant at Stucker, Smith, and Weatherly, Brant shares how archetypal narratives help us understand the unconscious forces shaping group behavior.

Will and Brant discuss the evolving landscape of wilderness therapy, the impact of social media on mental health treatment, and how lessons from mythology can guide therapists, leaders, and individuals in navigating complex interpersonal dynamics. Whether you're a clinician, a leader, or simply interested in the intersection of psychology and storytelling, this episode provides a fascinating look at how ancient wisdom remains deeply relevant today.

Brant’s book, God’s, Heroes, and Groups is available on Amazon.

Our podcast underwriter is White Mountain Adventure Institute-(WMAI.org)

In this Will speaks with Derek Daley, the incoming president of the National Association of Therapeutic Schools and Programs (NATSAP), about the transformative implications of the Stop Institutional Child Abuse Act (SICAA) for outdoor behavioral health. This federal legislation focuses on increasing oversight, transparency, and accountability within youth treatment programs, aiming to establish national standards for ethical care and safety. Daley explains that the next two years will involve data collection and evaluation to guide future regulations, with NATSAP actively engaging policymakers to ensure the field’s expertise and perspective shape these developments. He underscores the importance of trauma-informed care and community-based alternatives while advocating to preserve wilderness therapy as a vital option for families seeking outdoor behavioral healthcare.

Daley also sheds light on the recent merger of the Outdoor Behavioral Healthcare Council (OBH) Council with NATSAP, a decision driven by declining OBH membership and the closure of numeorus programs. This merger represents a strategic shift, enabling OBH’s mission to thrive within NATSAP's broader organizational structure. Daley highlights OBH’s legacy as a trailblazer in accreditation standards, safety data collection, and outcome tracking, which have influenced the entire field. With SICAA emphasizing data transparency and ethical practices, this partnership positions outdoor behavioral health programs to adapt and lead amid increasing federal oversight. Daley invites listeners to engage with these changes by attending the upcoming NATSAP conference and supporting initiatives that ensure the future of outdoor-based mental health care.

Here is a link to the SICAA act: https://www.congress.gov/118/bills/s1351/BILLS-118s1351es.pdf

Stories from the Field is sponsored by White Mountain Adventure Institute (wmai.org).

In this episode Will talks with John Tobias, founder of Red Cedar Transitions. John shares his journey from working at Boulder Outdoor Survival School to Aspen Achievement Academy and other wilderness therapy programs to establishing Red Cedar Transitions in Asheville, North Carolina. He discusses the evolution of his career, blending wilderness therapy, coaching, and psychotherapy, and highlights the flexibility and individualized approach of Red Cedar’s community-based model. John emphasizes the importance of supporting young adults as they navigate transitions, providing them with tools for independence while staying connected to the real world.

The conversation explores the changing landscape of wilderness therapy, including the decline of traditional programs and the rise of alternative models like Red Cedar that cater to modern young adults' needs. John also reflects on the power of nature-based therapy and its potential to adapt and thrive despite industry challenges. With a focus on action-oriented coaching and the integration of therapeutic principles, John shares his vision for the future, emphasizing flexibility and responsiveness to the rapidly evolving needs of young people.

In this episode Will talks with John Karren, co-founder of Elements Programs. John reflects on how Elements has evolved over its 17-year history, moving from a strictly nomadic wilderness model to more flexible, tailored programs, including a new “Eclipse” option designed for neurodiverse adolescents. He explains the behind-the-scenes decisions that led them to integrate adventure activities, introduce heated tents, and adopt family-centric approaches, all while maintaining a commitment to the transformative power of the outdoors. John also discusses the critical role of collaboration with partners and clinical team members in shaping Elements’ ongoing adaptations, from digital media overuse interventions to specialized programming for different client profiles.

Beyond the Elements model, John and Will touch on broader challenges facing the outdoor behavioral healthcare field, particularly the recent industry contractions and heightened public scrutiny. John shares how being a small, owner-operated program with dedicated clinical professionals has enabled Elements to stay resilient. He speaks passionately about the need to eliminate outdated practices, embrace ethical oversight, and remain agile in responding to ever-changing mental health needs. This conversation offers a candid look at how one wilderness therapy program continues to innovate while retaining a deep respect for the outdoors as a powerful catalyst for growth and healing.

Other podcast episodes related to Elements mentioned in this episode:

Episode 44: Karen Scrafford, Co-founder of Elements Wilderness Therapy

Episode 17: Lynn Smith, Co-founder of Elements Wilderness Program

98: Vicenzo Narciso, Undergraduate Student at San Diego Mesa College and Former Wilderness Therapy Student

In this special episode Will takes a deep dive into the Netflix documentary Hell Camp: Teen Nightmare, which explores the infamous Challenger Foundation—a adolescent wilderness therapy program in the late 1980s that became a cautionary tale of abuse and unethical practices. Will reflects on the emotional impact of the film, the human cost of profit-driven models, and the ripple effects of Challenger’s abusive culture on the broader field of wilderness therapy. Drawing on his extensive research and writings, he examines how the program's legacy continues to shape the evolution of ethical standards and regulatory oversight in outdoor behavioral healthcare.

The episode also features insights from undergraduate students in Will’s Wilderness Therapy class at Plymouth State University. These students share their fresh perspectives on the documentary and discuss the broader complexities of wilderness therapy, including their views on consent, ethical practices, and the role of outdoor experiences in healing. Their reflections, shaped by personal and professional experiences, underscore the importance of learning from the past to create safer and more effective programs today. Together, Will and his students offer a nuanced exploration of the challenges and potential of wilderness therapy as a tool for mental health treatment.

Will's doctoral dissertation is free on Proquest: Stories from the Elders: Chronicles and Narratives from the Early Years of Wilderness Therapy.