In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Tom Warner, head of BD at DoubleZero, about why crypto is fundamentally limited by the public internet and how a new high-performance network layer could change everything.

Tom explains how blockchains like Solana are hitting a performance ceiling not because of the chains themselves, but because of the infrastructure they run on. He breaks down how traditional finance firms rely on private, ultra-fast networks, why crypto has never had access to that level of connectivity, and how DoubleZero is building a decentralized alternative using subsea cables and high-performance routing.

The conversation covers the launch of DoubleZero Edge, a real-time market data distribution platform designed to level the playing field for traders, why predictable latency matters more than raw speed, and how crypto still lags behind Wall Street in execution reliability. Tom also explains Solana “shreds” through a simple analogy, how multicast technology changes data distribution, and why inconsistent transaction timing is one of the biggest barriers to institutional capital.

They also explore the future of 24/7 markets, the convergence of DeFi and traditional finance, the growing tension between banks and stablecoins, and what still needs to happen before crypto becomes the dominant financial system.

00:00 Introduction

00:33 What is Double Zero?

01:18 The Internet Is Slowing Crypto Down

02:47 The Hidden Network War You Never See

04:56 Solana’s Bottleneck Isn’t What You Think

06:35 What DoubleZero Edge Changes

10:22 This Analogy Explains Everything

19:16 Crypto Still Can’t Compete With Wall Street

23:32 What Happens When Markets Never Close

26:14 What’s Still Holding Crypto Back

31:52 Banks vs Stablecoins Is Just Getting Started

33:31 Where the Real Opportunities Are

You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141

Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens

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Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Matt Luongo, co-founder of Mezo, and Arthur Hayes, CIO of Maelstrom and co-founder of BitMEX, about why they see bitcoin as the best collateral ever created and what it means to build a financial system on top of it. Matt explains how Mezo is rebuilding banking on bitcoin by letting holders borrow against their BTC rather than spend it, and why the lending market that blew up last cycle is now being rebuilt onchain with better infrastructure. Arthur shares why he treats bitcoin purely as a liquidity barometer, why governments will always choose to print rather than accept consequences, and why that makes bitcoin the only rational long-term savings asset.

The two walk through what sustainable bitcoin yield actually looks like versus the token-printing schemes that failed in the last cycle and how institutions holding bitcoin on their balance sheet are deploying it. The conversation also covers Arthur's personal philosophy on leverage, Matt's experience financing his house with bitcoin, and why both guests believe people shouldn’t sell your BTC, just borrow against it. 

Arthur Hayes:

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/cryptohayes/

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-hayes-b493b42/

Substack - https://cryptohayes.substack.com/

Web: https://www.cryptohayes.com

X - https://x.com/cryptohayes

Maelstrom Fund:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/maelstromfund

Web - https://www.maelstrom.fund

X - https://x.com/maelstromfund

TIMESTAMPS

(00:00) Intro
(01:37) Why Matt built Mezo and what drew Arthur in with his big picture thesis
(02:23) Arthur on Maelstrom, his family office, and why bitcoin needs to be useful
(03:16) The state of bitcoin in 2026
(05:57) Bitcoin as a liquidity alarm: why it rises and falls with global money printing
(08:47) Governments choosing bailouts over consequences, and how bitcoin can win
(15:04) How to think about risk before going max long bitcoin
(20:39) What macro patterns Arthur and Matt actually track
(23:41) What sustainable bitcoin yield looks like versus token-printing schemes
(25:24) Why a lot of bitcoin holders have never had access to standard DeFi
(32:36) How institutions with BTC on their balance sheet are thinking about yield today
(34:26) Why every DeFi exploit sets institutional adoption back and what changes that
(37:03) Bitcoin as collateral: what it actually unlocks for holders
(38:25) How Matt and Arthur each got into crypto
(44:41) Is it too late to buy bitcoin? The conversations people are actually having now
(45:55) Market outlook and price predictions

ESSENTIALS

You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/

Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Rune Christensen, founder of Sky (formerly MakerDAO), about how the protocol is connecting hundreds of billions in idle stablecoins to institutional-grade yield through its Sky Agent Network. Rune explains why Sky evolved from MakerDAO, how USDS offers a native 3.75% savings rate with no lock-ups or fees, and why the protocol generated $338 million in annualized revenue with $158 million in net profit during recent market volatility.

He walks through the Sky Agent Network enabling decentralized capital allocation across players like Spark, BlackRock, and Janus Henderson, why Sky deployed $1 billion into the first tokenized CLO, and how the protocol's seven-year track record makes it the only project institutions trust at scale. The conversation covers Sky's 74% USDS supply growth, why DeFi and TradFi will merge into one system, and how AI agents will drive the next phase of financial automation through blockchain-native stablecoins.

TIMESTAMPS 

00:00 – Intro

02:08 – Why Sky evolved from MakerDAO: rethinking DeFi for real-world scale

04:00 – Sky as infrastructure for global capital markets and capital formation

05:34 – How Sky Savings Rate works with 3.75% yield

07:06 – Sky Agent Network: decentralized businesses competing for best risk-adjusted returns

08:16 – Why Sky is different from Ethena and other yield-bearing stablecoins

11:49 – Spark protocol reaching $3 billion TVL as it grows in the lending market

14:03 – How real cash-flowing assets are coming onchain for the first time

18:32 – Why institutions like BlackRock and Janus Henderson work with Sky 

27:18 – Sky’s Grove deploying $1 billion into first tokenized CLO by Janus Henderson and Centrifuge

30:10 – When DeFi and TradFi merge: stablecoins can act as super capital

34:13 – AI agents driving blockchain-native financial automation

37:35 – Sky's revenue: $338M annualized with $158M net profit during market volatility

39:05 – Growing stablecoin supply as the main opportunity ahead

50:18 – Rune's endgame: fully automating Sky through AI to finally step away

ESSENTIALS 

You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141

Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens

Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/

Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Vik Arun, co-founder of Superform, about why DeFi was always heading toward automation and why AI agents not humans are the natural managers of onchain portfolios. Vik, who previously co-led a $100M DeFi and yield fund at BlockTower Capital before launching Superform in 2022, explains how the protocol evolved from a yield marketplace into a user-owned neobank, and why he believes the goal is to replace banks entirely rather than work alongside them.

He walks through Superform's UP token launch, why 85% of airdrop recipients sold immediately, and what teams getting ready to TGE should learn from that experience. The conversation covers the two paths left for software companies in the age of AI, and why the only thing that can stop crypto's future is believers burning themselves out.

TIMESTAMPS

(00:00) Intro
(01:15) How Vik is using AI across Superform and what it means for team structure
(03:18) Two paths for software companies: fully embrace AI or settle for margins
(07:45) Superform's evolution from yield marketplace to user-owned neobank
(09:12) Why DeFi was always heading toward automation, not human management
(10:51) How AI agents will manage vault strategies and what guardrails are needed
(11:00) Where banks can't compete and what user-owned finance actually means
(14:20) Self-custody: why some people genuinely don't want it and what that costs them
(15:02) The Clarity Act and why banning stablecoin yields through banks could be great for DeFi
(18:00) Will banks acquire DeFi protocols or will DeFi replace them?
(19:08) Superform's end goal: replace the banks
(23:27) Why Superform launched its UP token in a tough market
(24:34) Core governance capabilities and the first three improvement proposals
(26:09) Token launch lessons: after 85% of recipients sold immediately, distribution is everything
(29:03) B2C vs B2B: mobile app for consumers, super vaults for institutions
(30:52) Why this cycle may be the first where institutions lead retail into DeFi
(31:38) 2026 roadmap: Android launch, credit card, and agentic vault managers
(39:12) Final advice: the believers who stay will build what matters

ESSENTIALS

You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/

Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Samantha Bohbot, partner and chief growth officer at RockawayX, about why DeFi vaults have evolved from simple yield products into the foundation for actively managed, institutional-grade credit strategies. Samantha, who spent nearly four years as VP of growth at DCG before joining RockawayX, explains how the firm allocates over $2 billion across venture, liquid tokens, and onchain credit, and why it launched its own vaults on Morpho and Camino after spending years as one of the largest depositors into these products itself.

She walks through what separates a serious vault from a commoditized one, why credit underwriting and risk infrastructure matter more than yield numbers, and how AI agents could reshape how capital flows into DeFi. The conversation also covers the Resolve exploit, why prediction markets are overhyped relative to actual usage, how to spot confirmation bias in crypto venture, and why building real financial infrastructure takes longer than a hackathon.

TIMESTAMPS

(00:00) Intro
(01:14) Samantha's background at DCG and path to RockawayX
(01:49) What RockawayX is: venture, liquid tokens, credit fund, and infrastructure
(03:11) Why vaults are the next stage of the DeFi promise
(05:24) How RockawayX differentiates its vault strategy from the crowd
(07:22) Why credit underwriting and risk infrastructure are what separate real vaults
(08:21) Why RockawayX decided to build vaults itself rather than wait
(09:03) How the first RWA mixed pool works
(13:37) Generative finance and how AI agents change vault UX and product fit
(16:19) Embedding vaults into fintech products to reach non-crypto users
(19:45) The Resolv exploit: how the attack worked and what curators got right
(22:30) RockawayX's 2026 priorities and where to allocate time and resources
(26:02) Why prediction markets are getting too much attention
(27:14) Running a market-neutral strategy on Polymarket and its liquidity limits
(33:16) Confirmation bias in crypto venture: pitching decks instead of businesses
(40:09) OCC charters and the future of crypto banking regulation
(42:37) Final advice: trust your gut on people and ideas

You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/

Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Michael Tannenbaum, CEO of Figure, about how the company processes over $1 billion in mortgages monthly and why it went public in 2025. Michael, who was first employee at Brex and chief revenue officer at SoFi before joining Figure in 2024, explains why the company tokenized its own stock first to prove the model works before approaching other issuers.

He walks through Figure's 100% year-over-year growth with 50% margins by using blockchain tech to cut mortgage origination costs, why tokenization is now part of the buying criteria for capital markets, and the difference between creating liquidity versus just tokenizing assets. The conversation covers the Provenance blockchain, OPEN launch and demand, its DeFi marketplace, and why private credit needs institutional owners for long-term assets rather than retail investors.

TIMESTAMPS 

(00:00) Intro
(01:17) Career path: SoFi chief revenue officer, first employee at Brex, now Figure CEO
(03:21) Why Michael bet on Brex
(05:09) Reconnecting with Mike Cagney on Figure
(08:41) His framework for building through crypto and fintech cycles
(10:34) Figure's IPO timing and being publicly traded while building onchain markets
(15:56) Why Figure tokenized its own stock first before approaching other companies
(18:35) Liquidity in tokenization: just because you tokenize doesn't mean it's liquid
(22:00) Launching with Figure’s own inventory to avoid guinea pig problem
(23:26) What it means to have “hair on fire” problems
(25:37) When to emphasize blockchain benefits versus meeting skeptics where they are
(27:26) Breaking the rule of 40: 100% growth with 50% margins using blockchain technology
(28:27) Revenue growth: 100% year-over-year across mortgages, stablecoins, and DeFi marketplace
(33:11) Capital markets highway thesis: blockchain infrastructure not SaaS as next fintech model
(46:26) Watching private credit nervousness around retail investor redemptions

ESSENTIALS 

You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141

Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens

Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/

Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Parker Edwards, partner at Framework Ventures, about deploying a $2.5 billion mandate to bring institutional-grade yield onchain through Obex, a Sky-focused incubator. Parker announces the first cohort where it’s deploying $1 billion across eight companies including Maple, Centrifuge, Securitize, River, and Better Home & Finance, spanning areas like structured credit, mortgages, energy, and AI infrastructure.

He explains why real-world assets are finally reaching institutional scale, with players like Apollo and BlackRock actively participating. The conversation covers why established companies with deep domain expertise are better positioned to scale with Obex than early-stage startups, how Sky grew to $11.5 billion in USDS stablecoin supply, and the plan to hit $20 billion by 2026.This episode is sponsored by Securitize, the proven leader in tokenized funds, equities, and private markets. Discover more at securitize.io.

TIMESTAMPS

(00:00) Intro with Parker Edwards, partner at Framework Ventures
(00:25) What is Obex and its $2.5 billion mandate to deploy capital into Sky ecosystem
(01:09) Sky's growth to $11.5 billion in stablecoin supply as third largest stablecoin
(02:06) Why Framework Ventures is administering the Obex incubator
(02:52) First cohort: Maple, USD.ai, Centrifuge, Securitize, River, Better, and others deploying $1 billion
(04:12) Why it chose more established players over early-stage startups for day-one scale
(06:06) State of RWAs: institutional-grade founders with deep domain expertise entering the space
(08:03) Asset manager mandates: structured credit, private credit, energy, and AI infrastructure
(10:05) Why Better Home & Finance chose to build on Sky for mortgage tokenization
(13:33) Real cash-flowing assets onchain without artificial yield incentives
(15:15) How DeFi is competing with banks and credit funds on quality assets
(17:13) Apollo and BlackRock participating onchain
(20:16) Sky's recent $435 million revenue and $20 billion stablecoin target by end of 2026
(22:20) Why USDS won't replace USDC or USDT but serves different institutional roles
(27:26) Final advice

ESSENTIALS 

You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141

Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens

Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/

Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Dan Mottice, head of stablecoins at Modern Treasury and founder of Beam, a stablecoin payment platform it acquired in October 2025. Dan, who previously led Visa's crypto products before building Beam, explains how payment infrastructure is evolving to treat stablecoins as a default rail alongside traditional fiat systems.

He walks through why moving money remains hard, how 24/7 liquidity will transform cross-border and domestic payments, and why the layer between fiat and crypto is the real bottleneck. The conversation covers stablecoin clearinghouses as an emerging opportunity, why stablecoin neobanks need to match incumbent features and where value will accrue in the payment stack. Dan also shares lessons from building consumer versus B2B products and his advice for staying focused on the builders who stick around during bear markets.This episode is a part of the Solana Sessions campaign that Token Relations and the Talking Tokens podcast are doing, diving into founders’ journeys and startups building on Solana. Check out the accompanying newsletter on www.token-relations.com

TIMESTAMPS

(00:00) Intro
(01:40) Dan's background at Visa and building Beam
(03:36) Modern Treasury acquiring Beam in October 2025 and the vision for stablecoins as a rail
(04:16) How Visa and stablecoin platforms will become symbiotic, not competitors
(06:13) Current payment systems: pretty well solved domestically, room for improvement cross-border
(08:12) Why 24/7 liquidity will dramatically improve both domestic and cross-border payments
(09:54) Where value accrues: infrastructure layer vs customer relationship ownership
(13:04) If starting over today: building a global liquidity protocol or stablecoin clearinghouse
(17:24) Biggest misconceptions about payments and how hard it is to get money in and out of blockchains
(20:01) Why stablecoin neobanks need FDIC insurance and customer support to beat incumbents
(31:26) What Dan wants to see builders create with new onchain money movement primitives
(32:14) Final advice: focus on the people who stick around during bear markets

You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141

Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens

Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/

Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Muneeb Ali, founder of Stacks, about navigating his fourth bear market and why this one feels different as AI could potentially offer higher growth than crypto for the first time. Muneeb explains why quantum computing poses a real threat to Bitcoin even before quantum computers exist, and why some Bitcoin hardliners refuse to acknowledge the problem.

He walks through the evolution of Bitcoin DeFi from peak excitement in 2024 to maturation in 2025, why BTC yield has product-market fit, and how Stacks is launching self-custodial Bitcoin staking with 3-7% yields. The conversation covers its $400M+ in BTC rewards already paid out, why institutions want Bitcoin-denominated returns and why Bitcoin maturing with yield capabilities will help traditional banks offer it to clients even if hardliners don't like BlackRock's involvement.

TIMESTAMPS 

(00:00) Intro
(01:24) How his 4th bear market feels different with AI competing with crypto
(04:47) Quantum computing threat to Bitcoin and why hardliners won't acknowledge it
(07:04) Bitcoin's path to quantum resistance
(12:26) What happens to Satoshi's Bitcoin and lost coins in quantum future
(14:44) Bitcoin to $1M by 2030: conviction despite slower appreciation rates
(17:27) Bitcoin DeFi evolution from 2024 to 2025
(21:06) Bitcoin collateral: yield and lending product-market fit
(28:55) Why institutions want BTC-denominated yields
(31:10) What changed culturally to make Bitcoin staking acceptable to holders
(34:55) Self-custodial Bitcoin staking: earn 3-7% with BTC in your hardware wallet

ESSENTIALS 

You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ 

Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Jonathan Han, CEO of Euler Finance, about building the credit layer of the internet and making DeFi lending accessible to retail and institutional users alike. Jonathan, who previously worked at Bridgewater Associates explains how Euler's lending framework is evolving from a permissionless protocol to one serving both crypto natives and traditional finance partners.

The conversation covers why traditional mortgage applications can take months when crypto lending can happen in seconds, how tokenized funds like Apollo provide diversification against bitcoin volatility in DeFi lending markets, and why Euler integrated Securitize’s digital securities (DS) protocol, which allows for DS tokens to be used as collateral in “curated, risk isolated lending markets.”. Jonathan also discusses the institutional pivot happening across DeFi, why fixed-rate lending and compliance features are key for enterprise partners, common misconceptions about institutional adoption timelines, and how AI agents are beginning to execute trades and deploy portfolios across lending markets. He also shares insights from building Euler to over $4 billion in deposits within a year after the protocol's recovery from a 2023 hack.This episode is sponsored by Securitize, the proven leader in tokenized funds, equities, and private markets. Discover more at securitize.io.

TIMESTAMPS 

(00:00) Intro
(01:19) From Bridgewater Associates to crypto
(04:04) Becoming Euler CEO after leading partnerships and institutional growth
(04:47) Building the credit layer of the internet: democratizing access to credit
(07:26) Why crypto lending unlocks liquidity in seconds vs months for mortgages
(08:12) Euler's evolution from permissionless DeFi to serving institutions and fintech
(10:06) Making financial tools accessible without requiring a finance degree
(14:57) RWAs as diversification: Apollo funds performing independently of bitcoin volatility
(20:06) How tokenized treasuries and private credit reduce liquidation risk in DeFi
(22:45) Euler launching tokenized stock lending following Nasdaq, Kraken partnership
(24:00) What institutional partners actually ask: fixed-rate products and compliance
(26:41) Biggest misconceptions: crypto moving too fast vs traditional cycles
(29:45) Measuring success by: plugging Euler into stablecoin issuers and fintech platforms
(35:20) Retail investors accessing exotic financial tools through education and AI
(37:20) How Jonathan uses AI agents for portfolio deployment and market summaries

ESSENTIALS 

You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141

Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens

Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/

Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.