Terror Talk: True Crime, Serial Killers and Horror

Shannon and Cathy discuss recent horror watches including All Hallow’s Eve, Housebound, Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?, One Cut of the Dead, and Channel Zero plus horror read: Darcy Coates’ Craven Manor. We also discuss our Halloween events and some research on Nightmares. Plus Horror Facts with Cath.

What would it actually be like to walk inside a serial killer’s mind, and could a therapist ever bring him back?

Content note: This episode discusses childhood abuse and complex trauma.

Therapists Shannon and Cathy revisit The Cell (2000), the visually stunning sci-fi psychological horror film starring Jennifer Lopez, Vince Vaughn and Vincent D’Onofrio as serial killer Carl Stargher. Twenty years after seeing it in theaters, and now working clinicians, they find a film that is really about therapy: entering someone else’s darkness, getting stuck there, and finding a way back out.

Cathy brings the forensic question of whether someone this dangerous can ever be repaired. Shannon brings the depth psychology: the shadow, the dreamscape as a map of the psyche, and the baptism scene as a metaphor for returning to the original wound with a safe, loving presence.

Covered in this episode:

• The Cell (2000), directed by Tarsem Singh
• Jennifer Lopez as child therapist Catherine Deane
• Vincent D’Onofrio as Carl Stargher
• Vince Vaughn as FBI agent Peter Novak
• The dreamscape as a metaphor for the psyche
• The opening scene: why people doubt therapy that takes time
• The baptism ending and re-narrating trauma
• Why therapists need supervision and consultation
• Using horror films in therapy, from It Chapter Two to The Cell
• The epilogue, the dog, and the clients who change us

Clinical themes: projective identification, countertransference, the Jungian shadow, compassion versus empathy, nature versus nurture, malignant narcissism and early injury, whether dangerous offenders can be rehabilitated, complex PTSD, the therapeutic container, clinician self-care.

Related episodes:

• DIAGNOSIS: Hannibal Lecter & Will Graham from NBC’s Hannibal
• PSYCHOLOGY: Se7en, John Doe, Seven Deadly Sins & the Mandela Effect
• PSYCHOLOGY: Mental Illness in Horror, Joker, Hereditary & The Babadook

If you enjoyed this episode, follow Terror Talk and leave us a 5-star rating. It’s the single biggest thing that helps new listeners find us.

Two licensed therapists, one forensic psychologist, one clinical LMFT, take apart the minds behind the crimes.

Until then... sleep safe. 😴
🎧 Follow Terror Talk wherever you get your podcasts and join us on Patreon for bonus content and access to our private discord: patreon.com/terrortalk
📸 Instagram: @terrortalkpodcast | 🎥 YouTube: Terror Talk Podcast | 📘 Facebook: Terror Talk Podcast | 🎵 TikTok: @dark.psychology.girls
🎶 Music by Mannequin Uprising

What would you do if your Halloween haunt got shut down and quietly moved to a hillside in the middle of nowhere?

Content note: The Cursed Films discussion (about 27:30 to 30:30) describes real on-set deaths, including Brandon Lee and the two children killed filming Twilight Zone: The Movie.

It’s Shrink Chat, our weekly horror roundup, recorded the day before Halloween 2020. Cathy tells the story of a limo ride to a haunted maze that felt exactly like the opening of Haunt, and Shannon reports from Joe Bob Briggs’ Halloween Hideaway on Shudder (Haunt and Hack-O-Lantern). Cathy’s Horror Facts lead to a 1976 classic, then we review the Evil Dead fan documentary Hail to the Deadites and Vincent Price’s Theatre of Blood, go deep on Cursed Films, and work out exactly who dies first in a horror movie.

Therapists Shannon and Cathy talk about how expectation sets up disappointment, why we cast ourselves in horror roles the moment something feels off, how fandom builds community, and why real tragedy behind a film changes how we watch it.

Covered in this episode:

• Carrie (1976), Sissy Spacek and Carrie Fisher’s joint audition with Star Wars
• Hail to the Deadites, the Evil Dead fan documentary, with Bruce Campbell
• Theatre of Blood (1973) with Vincent Price
• Haunt (2019) and Hack-O-Lantern (1988) on Joe Bob Briggs’ Halloween Hideaway
• Cursed Films on Shudder: The Crow, Brandon Lee and Twilight Zone: The Movie
• The Telluride Horror Show, shelter-in-place edition
• Black Christmas (1974) and the remake
• Vincent Price classics: House on Haunted Hill, House of Wax and The Comedy of Terrors
• Fright Night, Scream and It’s the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown
• Prime’s Halloween picks: Nosferatu, Hereditary, Midsommar, Cabin in the Woods, Starry Eyes, The House of the Devil, Hell House LLC, The Houses October Built, Bone Tomahawk and Night of the Living Dead
• The final girl and the rules of who dies first

Clinical themes: expectation and disappointment, threat appraisal and horror schemas, fandom and belonging, grief and public tragedy, the final girl trope.

Related episodes:

• HALLOWEEN: Devil’s Night, Samhain & the Real Origins of Halloween
• SHRINK CHAT: The House of the Devil, Ginger Snaps & Stingy Jack
• PSYCHOLOGY: Michael Myers, Laurie Strode & Every Halloween Movie

If you enjoyed this episode, follow Terror Talk and leave us a 5-star rating. It’s the single biggest thing that helps new listeners find us.

Two licensed therapists, one forensic psychologist, one clinical LMFT, take apart the minds behind the crimes.

Until then... sleep safe. 😴
🎧 Follow Terror Talk wherever you get your podcasts and join us on Patreon for bonus content and access to our private discord: patreon.com/terrortalk
📸 Instagram: @terrortalkpodcast | 🎥 YouTube: Terror Talk Podcast | 📘 Facebook: Terror Talk Podcast | 🎵 TikTok: @dark.psychology.girls
🎶 Music by Mannequin Uprising

Where did Halloween really come from, and why did Detroit set itself on fire the night before?

It’s our 2020 Halloween special, recorded in costume in a studio full of zombies and clowns. Cathy’s Halloween Horror Facts trace trick-or-treating back to medieval times, explain why the holiday is orange and black, and revisit Stingy Jack and the first jack-o’-lanterns. Cathy remembers growing up with Devil’s Night in the Detroit suburbs, Shannon explains Samhain and the thinning veil between the living and the dead, and we talk Día de los Muertos, Coco, and how a shared love of Halloween started our friendship.

Therapists Shannon and Cathy talk about why Halloween hits so hard emotionally: nostalgia and childhood innocence, how a culture of fear changed trick-or-treating, how witches went from wise women to villains, and what honoring the dead can offer people who are grieving.

Covered in this episode:

• Samhain, the Celtic festival behind Halloween
• Devil’s Night (Mischief Night) in Detroit
• Cabbage Night and Halloween traditions in America
• The origins of trick-or-treating and jack-o’-lanterns
• Stingy Jack, the Irish legend
• Witches, Wicca and the word “witch”
• Samhainophobia, the fear of Halloween
• Día de los Muertos and Pixar’s Coco (2017)
• Joe Bob Briggs’ Haunted Drive-In with Darcy the Mail Girl and Felissa Rose of Sleepaway Camp
• Halloween poisoning scares and the rise of supervised trick-or-treating
• Vampire and Freddy Krueger costumes
• All Hallows’ Eve (2013), our November buddy watch

Clinical themes: nostalgia and childhood memory, fear culture and moral panic, grief and honoring the dead, the cultural demonization of wise women, social bonding through shared ritual.

Corrections: Devil’s Night fires didn’t end in 1990. They peaked in 1984, and Detroit answered with volunteer Angels’ Night patrols from 1995. Wicca as a named religion dates from the mid-20th century, and the “wise woman” meaning of “witch” is popular folk etymology.

Related episodes:

• SHRINK CHAT: The House of the Devil, Ginger Snaps & Stingy Jack
• PSYCHOLOGY: Michael Myers, Laurie Strode & Every Halloween Movie
• SHRINK CHAT: Hubie Halloween, Spiral, Bly Manor & Evil Bong

If you enjoyed this episode, follow Terror Talk and leave us a 5-star rating. It’s the single biggest thing that helps new listeners find us.

Two licensed therapists, one forensic psychologist, one clinical LMFT, take apart the minds behind the crimes.

Until then... sleep safe. 😴
🎧 Follow Terror Talk wherever you get your podcasts and join us on Patreon for bonus content and access to our private discord: patreon.com/terrortalk
📸 Instagram: @terrortalkpodcast | 🎥 YouTube: Terror Talk Podcast | 📘 Facebook: Terror Talk Podcast | 🎵 TikTok: @dark.psychology.girls
🎶 Music by Mannequin Uprising

Where does the jack-o’-lantern really come from? An Irish drunkard who tricked the devil twice, a babysitting job that pays way too well, and a film the critics called revolting.

Trigger warning: The Bloodsucking Freaks discussion (about 20:20 to 23:30) describes sexual violence, torture and violence against a teenage girl.

It’s Shrink Chat, our weekly horror roundup, one week out from Halloween. Cathy’s Horror Facts lead to a 1993 cult classic, then comes the Irish legend of Stingy Jack, the man too wicked for heaven and too clever for hell. Our buddy watch is Ti West’s The House of the Devil, and a Joe Bob Briggs drive-in night serves up Bloodsucking Freaks. Plus, Gerald’s Game, Ginger Snaps, Disturbia and our favorite Halloween comfort watches.

Therapists Shannon and Cathy talk about why horror characters have to minimize threat to stay in the house, how the satanic panic of the 1980s shaped a whole genre, and what separates psychological horror you can sit through from exploitation that exists only to degrade.

Covered in this episode:

• Leprechaun (1993), Warwick Davis, Jennifer Aniston and the Lucky Charms that said no
• The legend of Stingy Jack and the origin of the jack-o’-lantern
• The House of the Devil (2009), Ti West and the satanic panic
• Bloodsucking Freaks (1976) with Joe Bob Briggs and guest Chris Jericho
• Dario Argento and giallo
• Gerald’s Game (2017)
• Ginger Snaps (2000)
• Revenge (2017) on Shudder
• The Crow, Fright Night, ParaNorman and Hocus Pocus
• House on Haunted Hill and House of Wax, the Vincent Price originals and the remakes
• The ‘Burbs and Disturbia with Shia LaBeouf and David Morse

Clinical themes: minimizing threat, the satanic panic of the 1980s, folklore as a moral lesson about guilt and sin, psychological horror versus exploitation, misogyny on screen.

A correction: Vincent Price died in 1993 and does not appear in the 1999 House on Haunted Hill. Geoffrey Rush’s character is named Price as a tribute.

Related episodes:

• PSYCHOLOGY: Michael Myers, Laurie Strode & Every Halloween Movie
• SHRINK CHAT: Hubie Halloween, Spiral, Bly Manor & Evil Bong
• SHRINK CHAT: The Babysitter: Killer Queen, Fade to Black & Followed

If you enjoyed this episode, follow Terror Talk and leave us a 5-star rating. It’s the single biggest thing that helps new listeners find us.

Two licensed therapists, one forensic psychologist, one clinical LMFT, take apart the minds behind the crimes.

Until then... sleep safe. 😴
🎧 Follow Terror Talk wherever you get your podcasts and join us on Patreon for bonus content and access to our private discord: patreon.com/terrortalk
📸 Instagram: @terrortalkpodcast | 🎥 YouTube: Terror Talk Podcast | 📘 Facebook: Terror Talk Podcast | 🎵 TikTok: @dark.psychology.girls
🎶 Music by Mannequin Uprising

Why does Michael Myers kill, and does the Halloween franchise even know? Shannon and Cathy take on every Halloween movie, from John Carpenter’s boogeyman to Rob Zombie’s backstory.

⚠️ Trigger warning: This episode includes discussions of sexual assault and suicide in film. Listener discretion is advised.

Therapists Shannon and Cathy go through the whole Halloween franchise, from the 1978 original to David Gordon Green’s trilogy. Along the way: Laurie Strode, Dr. Loomis, Jamie Lloyd, and the question the movies never answer, which is why Michael kills.

Covered in this episode:

• Halloween (1978) and Halloween II: John Carpenter, Debra Hill and the original boogeyman
• Halloween III: Season of the Witch, the anthology that almost was
• Halloween 4 and 5: Danielle Harris as Jamie Lloyd, PTSD and Dr. Loomis losing his ethics
• Halloween 6: The Curse of Michael Myers, with an early Paul Rudd
• Halloween H20 and Resurrection: Jamie Lee Curtis returns
• Rob Zombie’s Halloween and Halloween II: backstory, empathy and why John Carpenter hated it
• Halloween (2018), Halloween Kills and Halloween Ends: Laurie Strode as survivor
• Joe Bob Briggs and the Halloween Hootenanny on Shudder

Clinical themes: the psychology of a psychopath, nature vs nurture, PTSD and hypervigilance, real fear vs perceived fear, how horror exploits mental illness, what horror is good for psychologically.

Related episodes:

• PSYCHOLOGY: Mental Illness in Horror, Joker, Hereditary & The Babadook
• BLACK MIRROR Season 2: Two Therapists on White Bear & Be Right Back
• SHRINK CHAT: Hubie Halloween, Spiral, Bly Manor & Evil Bong

If you enjoyed this episode, follow Terror Talk and leave us a 5-star rating. It’s the single biggest thing that helps new listeners find us.

Two licensed therapists, one forensic psychologist, one clinical LMFT, take apart the minds behind the crimes.

Until then... sleep safe. 😴

🎧 Follow Terror Talk wherever you get your podcasts and join us on Patreon for bonus content and access to our private discord: patreon.com/terrortalk
📸 Instagram: @terrortalkpodcast | 🎥 YouTube: Terror Talk Podcast | 📘 Facebook: Terror Talk Podcast | 🎵 TikTok: @dark.psychology.girls
🎶 Music by Mannequin Uprising