What does attention actually tell us about whether advertising is working?

Pete Wallace, Managing Director EMEA at GumGum, explains why clicks remain a poor measure of advertising effectiveness and how attention can help marketers connect media exposure with real brand outcomes.

Pete shares how GumGum combines contextual signals, attention data, time, device and creative performance to predict the mindset of an audience. He brings this to life through GumGum’s work with the BBC and Havas on *Celebrity Traitors*, where targeting and creative changed as tension and excitement around the programme developed.

We also discuss why there is no universal number of seconds that guarantees attention, how creative testing can reveal when branding should appear, and why advertising needs to respect the environment in which it appears.

The conversation then moves into privacy, the value exchange between advertising and free content, the problem with ad tech companies using the same language, and why marketers need to ask more difficult questions about the technology behind their media plans.

Pete also reflects on moving from agency life into ad tech and leading teams across Europe, Japan and Australia, where different cultures require different approaches to pitching, testing and decision-making.

## In this episode, you will learn:

* Why attention can be more useful than clicks as a measure of advertising effectiveness

* How contextual advertising can predict consumer mindset without relying on personal identity

* How GumGum adapted targeting and creative during the BBC’s *Celebrity Traitors*

* Why every brand may require a different attention benchmark

* How creative attention data can improve branding and message placement

* Why advertising works best when it respects the surrounding content

* How marketers can test ad technology rather than accepting similar-sounding sales pitches

* What Pete has learned from leading teams across different international markets

## Timestamps

01:38 Pete’s journey from media agencies into ad tech

03:23 The difference between agency life and working in sales

05:33 What GumGum does and how the business has developed

06:00 Using data signals to predict consumer mindset

06:55 How GumGum worked on the BBC’s *Celebrity Traitors*

08:46 Why attention has always influenced media planning

09:25 Connecting attention to business and brand outcomes

10:21 How GumGum measures attention

11:15 Why there is no universal attention benchmark

11:23 Using attention data to improve creative execution

12:45 Matching advertising to the environment around it

13:34 Why brands are asking more questions about ad technology

14:33 Where GumGum fits within the modern media plan

14:40 Why marketers need greater digital and technical knowledge

15:12 Are marketers rigorous enough when testing media?

16:00 The problem with every ad tech company sounding the same

17:00 Why campaign learning needs to feed into future activity

17:42 Leading teams across Europe, Japan and Australia

18:23 How culture changes client expectations and ways of working

20:01 Balancing global consistency with local flexibility

21:23 What international markets can learn from one another

*The Cannes Sessions are brought to you in partnership with The Digital Voice.*

That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.

Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

• Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
• Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
• If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.

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James MacDonald, Founder of Limelight, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss programmatic advertising, building a global ad tech business, AI and why simplicity still matters for marketers today.

This episode explores the journey from Fleet Street advertising sales to modern programmatic technology, through a practical conversation about risk, reinvention, customer focus, remote culture and building technology that solves real problems.

In this episode, we cover:

– What Fleet Street taught James about sales, resilience and asking for the business

– Why helping people buy is more powerful than pushing people to buy

– How James identified the gap that led to Limelight

– Why programmatic advertising still needs simplicity, support and better execution

– How Limelight thinks about AI, interoperability and the importance of human judgement

– What it takes to build and maintain a strong remote culture across a global team

A useful listen for marketers interested in ad tech, programmatic advertising, AI in marketing, founder stories, sales, customer success, remote teams and building through change.

That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.

Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners.

Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com

This Cannes Sessions episode is brought to you in partnership with The Digital Voice.

Find out more at: https://www.thedigitalvoice.co.uk

01:38 Starting out on Fleet Street

03:19 What early sales teaches you

04:35 From eggs to advertising

06:27 Helping people buy, not pushing a sale

07:04 Mentors, mistakes and learning through failure

07:11 Starting again and founding Limelight

09:31 Finding the right business partner

10:59 Identifying the gap in programmatic

12:00 Building the Limelight platform

14:00 Taking risks as a founder

15:59 Building culture as the company grows

16:42 Running a fully remote global business

18:17 What Limelight does

20:49 How people discover Limelight

22:16 Listening to customers and building the product

23:33 AI, human judgement and interoperability

26:05 Why simplicity matters in technology

That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.

Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

• Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
• Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
• If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Julia Linehan, Founder and CEO of The Digital Voice, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss Cannes Lions, the changing role of PR, AI search, trusted sources and why amplification matters for marketers today.

This episode explores how brands, agencies and marketing leaders need to think about discoverability in a world where search, AI, content and credibility are all changing at pace.

In this episode, we cover:

– Why The Digital Voice describes itself as an amplification partner, not a traditional PR agency

– How AI search and LLMs are changing the value of trusted, published content

– Why consistency, repetition and clear messaging matter more than ever

– What it takes to plan properly for Cannes Lions and create real value from the week

– How Julia has built a fully remote team with strong culture, energy and trust

– Why Cannes needs to stay accessible for students, publishers, creators and smaller businesses

A useful listen for marketers interested in PR, brand visibility, AI in marketing, thought leadership, Cannes Lions, agency leadership and the future of discoverability.

That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.

Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners.

Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com

Visit the Digital voice at https://www.thedigitalvoice.co.uk/

That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.

Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

• Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
• Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
• If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the latest episode of The Singles, Conor is joined by Ed Parkin and Bella Harrison from Tracksuit to dig into four marketing stories where the headlines only tell part of the story.

The episode starts with the FIFA World Cup and what it could mean for soccer in the US. Major League Soccer still has a long way to go versus the NFL, NBA and MLB on awareness, but Tracksuit data shows consideration is already moving in the right direction. The conversation gets into younger audiences, affluent consumer skews, regional growth and why feeling “for people like me” matters so much in sports marketing.

Then it’s onto World Cup sponsorship. Coca-Cola, Adidas and McDonald’s show what decades of investment can do when brand associations compound over time, while Mengniu shows how sponsorship can still create warmth for a lesser-known brand.

The team also discuss Spotify’s temporary 20th anniversary logo, the backlash it received, and whether marketers sometimes overreact when a strong brand plays with its distinctive assets. With 88% awareness and very strong consideration, Spotify has more room to experiment than most.

BrewDog is next. Once valued at £2bn and now sold for £33m, it is a reminder that awareness can remain even when consideration, usage and preference are falling. The discussion also looks at James Watt’s new brand, Second Best, and whether founder-led challenger energy can travel from one brand to another.

Finally, the episode turns to the Irish National Lottery ad controversy, after its new work closely followed a New Zealand Lottery ad scene for scene. The question is not whether the insight worked. It did. The question is what happens when inspiration becomes imitation.

Tracksuit University is also featured in the episode, including how it helps marketers make the case for brand in a more finance-friendly way.

Get 20% off Tracksuit University with the discount code: That’s What I Call Marketing

Visit: university.gotracksuit.com

In this episode:

00:00 Introduction

01:24 Tracksuit University and making brand finance-friendly

02:48 The FIFA World Cup and soccer in the US

03:47 MLS awareness, consideration and growth potential

05:25 Younger audiences, affluent consumers and regional skews

06:49 Why relevance matters in sports marketing

09:02 World Cup sponsorship and long-term brand investment

13:00 Spotify’s 20th anniversary logo backlash

16:31 Why Spotify has earned the right to play with its assets

18:21 BrewDog’s sale and brand decline

20:01 Trust, relevance and the erosion of BrewDog’s core audience

21:01 Second Best and the future of founder-led brands

23:33 The Irish National Lottery ad controversy

26:45 Distinctiveness, copying and creative shortcuts

29:07 Tracksuit University discount details

That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.

Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

• Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
• Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
• If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jon Evans (Uncensored CMO) on Going Solo: Sponsorship, Podcasting as Networking & Cashflow Reality

Conor Byrne chats with Jon Evans (Uncensored CMO) about leaving the CMO track to run his podcast full time, using sponsorship to fund the work and turning “being good at talking” into a career. Jon explains why podcasting is a powerful networking tool—CMOs often decline coffee but say yes to being a guest—and how it accelerates learning by speaking to experts weekly. He also shares the less glamorous surprises of working for yourself: contracts, running a business properly, cashflow, and the difficulty of getting paid on time while supporting a team. Jon stresses that success is a long grind—“seven years to have an overnight success”—and that consistency and compounding effort are what make creator-led media businesses work in marketing.

That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.

Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

• Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
• Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
• If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of the Cannes Sessions, Conor Byrne takes us through another packed day on the Croisette, starting with the CMOs in the Spotlight session featuring Jill Kramer of Mastercard, Michelle Klein of Westpac, Manuel “Manolo” Arroyo of The Coca-Cola Company, and Suhayl Limbada CMO of KFC India. There were big themes running through the day: how legacy brands stay useful, why marketers need to understand the P&L, what happens when creativity meets commercial pressure, and why the best brands do not throw away their distinctive assets just because the world has changed. There is also a brilliant conversation with Maddy Cooper, Founder and CEO of Flourish, on how AI can help marketers in regulated sectors get work to market faster without creating a compliance nightmare. That matters because the future of marketing is not just more content, more formats and more channels. It is whether brands can still make sharp, responsible, commercially useful work at the speed the market now demands. The Digital Voice team were also out on the Croisette speaking to marketers including Langton McCombe from Particular Audience, Rory McDonald from Market Media at The Warehouse Group, and Alex Springer from OpenAttribution.org about retail media, incrementality, AI, ROAS, creativity, and what Cannes is really for and James Taylor CEO of Particular Audience.

And, of course, there was a big moment for Ireland, with Heineken’s The Pub That Refused To Die winning a Grand Prix, plus a look ahead to the Cannes Young Lions results where Darragh Spain and Fardosa Flanagan from 123.ie represented Ireland in the Young Marketers category along with lots of amazing talent representing Ireland.

01:18 – CMOs in the Spotlight: Mastercard, KFC India, Westpac and Coca-Cola

02:01 – Why Mastercard is re-examining the Priceless platform

03:14 – KFC, Gen Z, universal truths and the role of the Colonel

04:19 – Westpac, jingles, legacy brands and speaking the language of the CFO

05:14 – Coca-Cola, creativity, behaviour and why great teams matter more than big budgets

11:28 – Spending time with Jonnie Cahill and the value of generous senior marketers

15:03 – Maddy Cooper on Flourish, AI, compliance and regulated marketing

18:29 – Inside the Cannes Lions work exhibition

21:00 – Ireland’s Grand Prix moment for Heineken

23:58 – Langton McCombe on retail media, commerce media and incrementality

26:32 – Rory McDonald on creativity, ROAS and business outcomes

29:54 – Alex Springer on attribution, AI, influence and the future of content

34:26 – Final reflections from Cannes Sessions 2026

Thanks to The Digital Voice for partnering on the Cannes Sessions.

Find out more:

The Digital Voice: thedigitalvoice.co.uk

Flourish: flourishingworld.com

That’s What I Call Marketing: follow the podcast for more conversations with the people shaping modern marketing.

That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.

Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

• Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
• Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
• If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Cannes Lions Day 3: Moloco CMO Paul Darcy on AI Disruption, Brand vs Performance + Festival Voices & Award Highlights

On day three of the Cannes Lions Festival of Creativity, host Conor Byrne records The Cannes Sessions in partnership with The Digital Voice and interviews Paul Darcy, CMO of Moloco, fresh off an Adweek panel on how AI and LLM-driven consumer behavior are disrupting digital brands and acquisition channels. Darcy discusses the growing importance of brand as a signal to LLMs, the rising opportunity cost and measurement challenges of brand media versus increasingly optimized performance marketing (including CTV and in-app video), and Moloco’s focus on expanding modern performance surfaces. He also summarizes Moloco and BCG’s report on AI disruption by industry, highlighting discovery and customer-relationship durability, and notes AI overviews reducing clicks. The episode also features Cannes attendee perspectives (Amir Rasekh of Nectar 360, Beatrice Bordel Grant, Pauline Yoo from Samsung Ads, and Max from Adnormally) and Conor’s press-room roundup of select Cannes Lions winners.

00:00 Welcome to Cannes

01:15 Meet Paul Darcy

01:39 AI Disrupts Brands

02:43 Brand vs Performance

04:29 Performance as Brand

05:19 Fixing Ad Inefficiency

06:44 Moloco Growth Mission

07:19 BCG Disruption Report

10:33 Digital Voice Street Chats

10:56 Nectar 360 Goals

11:50 Amazon Port Surprise

14:24 Samsung Ads Highlights

16:12 Networking at Cannes

17:34 Press Room Winners

20:07 Wrap and Tomorrow

That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.

Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

• Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
• Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
• If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Cannes Lions 2026 Day 2: Google’s Paul Limbey on AI Transformation, LinkedIn Creators & Heineken’s Bronze Lion

On day two at Cannes Lions 2026 (Tuesday, 23 June), host Conor Byrne recaps a busy schedule at Brand Tech Beach, including an interview with Natasha Wallace to be released later in the summer with The Digital Voice. He doorstops Google’s Paul Limbey, who warns against the “double shift” of giving top performers both day jobs and transformation work, highlights the rise of forward-deployed roles backed by major programs from Google Cloud, Anthropic and OpenAI, and explains his upcoming leadership fable The Frog in a Sock (out early July) about organizational constraints like workflows, approvals and pilot obsession; he also argues for product-minded scaling, better performance metrics for transformation, and repeated communication. At the System1 party, Conor discusses talks from Andrew Tindall, Mark Ritson and Jon Evans, chats with creator Henry about high-effort LinkedIn video, and interviews Jon Evans on going full-time with Uncensored CMO. Fiona shares Heineken Ireland’s Bronze Lion wins for The Pub That Refused To Die, while Digital Voice street interviews cover AI, retail media, and creators seeking long-term brand partnerships.

00:00 Day Two Kickoff

01:02 Paul Limbey from google

01:28 Ending The Double Shift

05:00 Frog In A Sock

05:50 Scaling Beyond Pilots

06:45 Performance And People

08:07 Repeat To Lead Change

09:31 System1 Party Recap

10:35 Henry Hayes On LinkedIn Comedy

14:45 Jon Evans Goes Solo

20:54 Heinekens Bronze Lion with Fiona Curtin

23:19 Croisette Street Interviews

That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.

Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

• Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
• Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
• If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Cannes Lions 2026 Day 1: Young Lions Kickoff, AI Takes Over the Croisette & Early Winners

On day one of Cannes Lions 2026, host Conor Byrne covers the Young Lions competition as teams prepare for a 24-hour brief, and shares highlights from meetings and sessions across the festival. He recaps a coffee catch-up with Karen Nelson-Field and plans to feature her on the podcast, then reports recurring Cannes themes around AI, including agentic AI in ad tech and the importance of transparency and human-in-the-loop control discussed by Limelight leaders. From Adweek House, he notes talks on moving at “the speed of now,” AI enabling human connection (including Grindr and TD Bank), and sponsorship as a marketing lever. He also shares early Lions winners across Creative B2B and health categories, and summarizes research from WARC, Jellyfish, and Inseed on how creativity performs differently for humans versus LLMs.

00:39 Young Lions Kickoff

01:24 Coffee With Karen Nelson-Field

02:19 Limelight on AI Transparency

04:48 Adweek House Highlights

06:31 Early Lions Winners Roundup

07:59 Creativity in an LLM World

12:21 Oshri on Limelight US Growth

14:46 Ritson vs Sharp Debrief with Marc & V from the Sleeping Barber Podcast

That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.

Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

• Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
• Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
• If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“I will defend brand to the death.” Ty Heath, Global Director of Thought Leadership at LinkedIn and Jury President for the B2B Creative category at Cannes Lions 2026, joins Conor Byrne on That’s What I Call Marketing for a conversation about B2B marketing, brand building, AI search, thought leadership, creativity and the future of buying decisions.

Ty has helped shape some of the most influential thinking in modern B2B marketing through The B2B Institute at LinkedIn, including work on the 95/5 rule, brand and demand, buying committees, B2B creativity and the emotional nature of business decision-making.

In this episode, Ty shares her journey from high-performance athletics to Google, Nestlé, IBM and LinkedIn, and explains why the lessons of elite sport still shape how she thinks about leadership, resilience and long-term practice. The conversation then moves into some of the biggest questions facing marketers today. What changes when buyers use AI tools and LLMs to build their shortlists? How should brands think about visibility, authority and credibility in an AI-assisted search world? Does gated content still make sense? Why does brand still matter when algorithms and AI tools are influencing discovery? And what will Ty be looking for as Jury President of the B2B Creative Lions at Cannes Lions 2026?

This episode is part of the Cannes Sessions, sponsored by The Digital Voice, the amplification agency working with leading ad tech and martech companies globally. The Digital Voice helps brands show up across the full mix, from global press and thought leadership to content, social, events and creative, including major moments like Cannes Lions.

What you will learn:

• Why Ty Heath says she will “defend brand to the death”
• How B2B marketing moved beyond rational messaging into emotional decision-making
• Why The B2B Institute focused on what does not change, not just what is changing
• How the 95/5 rule helped reframe long-term B2B growth
• Why buying committees need to feel safe before they say yes
• What AI search and LLMs mean for B2B discoverability
• Why authority, credibility and reputation now matter more
• How brands can be visible to buyers and surfaced by AI tools
• Why gated content can create a trade-off between lead capture and reach
• How employee and executive voices can build trust at scale
• What Ty will be looking for in B2B creative work at Cannes Lions 2026
• Why B2B creativity is finally getting the attention it deserves

Timestamps:

03:03 – From elite athletics to marketing leadership

10:51 – Google, Nestlé, IBM and finding a path into marketing

15:20 – Why words, language and communication carry responsibility

17:52 – The emotional reality of B2B decision-making

18:57 – Building The B2B Institute and changing B2B marketing

21:55 – Brand and demand, the 95/5 rule and long-term growth

23:18 – AI, LLMs and the changing future of discoverability

27:42 – Buying committees, buyability and making decisions feel safer

30:36 – The gated content debate

35:14 – Why brand still matters in an AI-assisted world

38:58 – Employee voices, executive presence and B2B credibility

43:23 – Cannes Lions 2026 and the rise of B2B creativity

Listen to more episodes of That’s What I Call Marketing for conversations with leading marketers, CMOs, founders, strategists and creative thinkers on brand, effectiveness, creativity, marketing leadership and the future of the industry.

#B2BMarketing #BrandBuilding #TyHeath #LinkedIn #TheB2BInstitute #CannesLions #B2BCreativity #MarketingEffectiveness #ThoughtLeadership #AIsearch #LLMSEO #GEO #BrandAndDemand #MarketingLeadership #ThatsWhatICallMarketing

That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.

Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice.

• Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com
• Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/
• If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.