By 2006, the United States and the Afghan Republic had been fighting the Taliban for five years. Neither side was poised to win. That’s when U.S. political scientist Barnett Rubin received a phone call from a Taliban intermediary that would mark the beginning of a four-year, clandestine process of “talks about talks”—even as fighting was intensifying on the ground and as U.S. troops found and killed Osama bin Laden in Pakistan. Veteran Afghanistan reporter Andrew North talks to some of the key players involved for a behind-the-scenes look at the negotiations.