• 01:04 – 01:35 – Guest Introduction – Mikael Dia of Funnelytics: Mikael Dia, former agency owner turned SaaS entrepreneur, shares his journey from running an agency to founding Funnelytics, a tool designed to visually map and analyze digital marketing funnels.
• 06:24 – 08:20 – How Funnelytics Was Born: Funnelytics emerged from the need to overlay real marketing data on top of strategic visualizations, allowing agencies and marketers to prove and optimize their funnel strategies effectively.
• 08:25 – 10:05 – The Importance of Visual Communication in Business: Marcel and Mikael discuss how visual communication aids in client understanding, enhances learning, and fosters trust, a principle rooted in adult learning theory.
• 10:42 – 12:13 – Impact of Visual Strategies on Agency Sales & Retention: Using visual models in sales processes helped Mikael’s agency close deals faster and at higher prices by positioning services as strategic solutions rather than commodity offerings.
• 12:24 – 14:06 – Enhancing Client Retention with Visual Reporting: By consistently tying marketing efforts back to a visualized strategy, agencies can effectively communicate progress, highlight bottlenecks, and demonstrate value to clients.
• 15:02 – 17:08 – Clients Need a Clear Path, Not Just Services: Clients struggle to see how individual marketing services fit into a bigger strategy. Mapping out a clear pathway from initial engagement to desired outcomes transforms how clients perceive agency value.
• 20:56 – 24:06 – Transitioning from an Agency to a SaaS Business: Mikael shares key lessons from shifting from an agency to SaaS, emphasizing the importance of knowing one’s strengths, finding a technical co-founder, and solving real customer problems.
• 27:19 – 32:24 – Common Pitfalls in SaaS Development: Mikael and Marcel discuss the challenges of product development, the need for technical expertise, and the mistake of building features based on assumptions rather than market feedback.
• 32:42 – 36:12 – The Reality of Finding Product-Market Fit: The conversation highlights the challenge of achieving product-market fit, the importance of iterating quickly, and the value of starting with a service-first approach before building software.
• 37:03 – 39:00 – Shifting Mindsets: From Proving Yourself Right to Proving Yourself Wrong: Marcel shares a key insight: the biggest shift in product development success comes when founders move from trying to validate their own ideas to actively seeking to disprove them as quickly as possible.

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• Facebook Group
• Funnelytics

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• 01:00 – 01:45 – Guest Introduction: Marcel welcomes back his co-founder, Ben Zittlau, highlighting his expertise in data operations and agency growth strategies.
• 03:35 – 05:50 – Scaling Data Operations: Lessons from Jobber: Ben shares insights from his experience at Jobber, detailing the challenges of building and scaling a data operations team in a fast-growing company.
• 08:43 – 13:14 – Why Agencies Struggle to Get Insights from Their Data: Discussion on how agencies collect vast amounts of data across multiple tools but fail to derive meaningful insights due to fragmentation and inconsistency.
• 13:15 – 16:05 – The Myth of a “Single Source of Truth: Marcel and Ben challenge the common belief that pushing all data into a single platform solves reporting issues, highlighting the reality of messy operational data.
• 19:26 – 21:48 – The Limitations of All-in-One Software Solutions: Exploring why all-in-one agency management tools often fail to deliver on their promise of seamless reporting and data integration.
• 24:43 – 27:44 – The Hidden Costs of Locking into a Single Platform: Discussion on how agencies become “trapped” by software providers, making it difficult to switch tools without major operational disruptions.
• 30:29 – 35:53 – How to Integrate Data Without Sacrificing Flexibility: A deep dive into the challenges of stitching data from various tools while maintaining adaptability and historical accuracy.
• 35:54 – 41:14 – Accuracy vs. Precision: Why Clean Data is a Myth: Why agencies should focus on broader trends instead of pursuing impossible data perfection, and how to handle data inconsistencies effectively.
• 41:15 – 44:15 – A Modern Data Approach: Extract, Transform, Load (ETL): Introduction to the ETL process, which allows agencies to clean and transform data before reporting, improving reliability and flexibility.
• 50:14 – 52:00 – Lessons from Finance: What Agencies Can Learn from Accounting: Marcel compares data operations to bookkeeping, explaining how structured financial workflows can serve as a model for better agency data management.

• Connect with Ben via LinkedIn
• Free Toolkit
• Parakeeto Foundations Course

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• 01:02 – 01:28 – Introduction to Manish Dudharejia: Manish Dudharejia, founder of E2M, is introduced as a leader in white label agency services, serving over 300 agencies globally with a focus on profitability and scalability.
• 01:34 – 02:45 – Manish’s Journey and E2M’s Growth: Manish shares how E2M evolved from serving diverse clients to specializing in white label services for agencies, growing to a 270+ member team over 12 years.
• 03:04 – 04:36 – Building a Culture of Excellence: Manish credits E2M’s success to a strong team and culture, emphasizing the importance of effective communication, realistic expectations, and timely delivery of high-quality services.
• 07:01 – 08:15 – Shifts in the White Label Industry: Manish identifies two major trends shaping the industry: combining local account management with offshore execution and leveraging AI to enhance efficiency and reduce costs.
• 10:55 – 12:01 – Problem-Solving as the New Specialization: Marcel explains how agencies are shifting from service-specific specialization to solving broader problems, requiring partnerships with white label providers to expand their capabilities.
• 15:14 – 17:11 – Hybrid Models for Scalable Agencies: Manish discusses the benefits of a hybrid model, where agencies maintain in-house teams for client-facing roles like sales and account management while outsourcing execution to white label partners.
• 17:11 – 18:47 – Profitability through White Label Partnerships: Marcel highlights how white label partnerships allow agencies to focus on high-margin activities, scale efficiently, and achieve better profitability by outsourcing execution.
• 22:43 – 24:02 – Flexibility and Scalability with White Label Models: Manish emphasizes the flexibility white label partners offer, allowing agencies to scale resources up or down based on demand while minimizing operational risks.
• 31:02 – 32:43 – Specialization and Delegation: Marcel and Manish discuss the importance of focusing on core competencies and outsourcing non-core tasks to partners who excel in those areas, enabling agencies to scale effectively.
• 34:28 – 36:07 – Outsourcing What You Don’t Enjoy: Manish shares two key frameworks for agency owners:
  • Outsource tasks that cost less than your billable rate.
  • Delegate tasks you dislike to partners who excel in those areas, creating win-win scenarios.

• Connect with Manish
  • LinkedIn
  • Twitter
  • E2M Solutions

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• 01:00 – 01:50 – Episode Kickoff and Guest Introduction: Marcel introduces Ben Zittlau, his co-founder and the “brains behind the operation” at Parakeeto, highlighting Ben’s instrumental role in shaping the company’s philosophies and tools.
• 01:51 – 04:25 – Ben’s Background and Early Career: Ben shares his journey from studying electrical engineering to becoming deeply involved in startups, entrepreneurship, and eventually co-founding Parakeeto, along with his notable work at Jobber.
• 04:26 – 06:44 – Lessons from Jobber and Shaping Profitability Frameworks: Ben reflects on his time at Jobber, where he observed how businesses transformed when they understood profitability over revenue, a realization that shaped Parakeeto’s focus.
• 06:45 – 07:22 – Parakeeto’s Founding and Evolution: Ben discusses how he and Marcel connected over their shared passion for solving complex problems for service businesses, leading to the creation of Parakeeto.
• 07:23 – 08:35 – Behind-the-Scenes Collaboration: Marcel highlights the depth of thought and iteration that he and Ben have poured into refining their profitability frameworks, setting the stage for their discussion.
• 08:36 – 11:34 – Common Profitability Traps in Agencies: The duo dives into how agencies often fall into traps like relying on cash flow or revenue as proxies for profitability, leading to poor business decisions.
• 11:35 – 14:14 – The Pitfalls of Cashflow-Based Decision Making: Ben and Marcel explain how focusing on cash flow can create illusions of profitability or mask underlying financial issues, illustrated by real client examples.
• 14:15 – 17:04 – Revenue vs. Profitability Decisions: They highlight how agencies often conflate cash flow with profit, sharing examples of businesses choosing lower-margin work due to short-term cash needs.
• 17:05 – 19:57 – Differentiating Revenue from Agency Gross Income (AGI): Ben explains the importance of isolating pass-through expenses to get a true picture of what’s left for an agency to operate and grow.
• 19:58 – 23:17 – Misconceptions About Markup and Rates: The discussion shifts to how agencies often misunderstand the role of markup in profitability and why focusing on average billable rates is key.
• 23:18 – 30:45 – The Problem with One-Size-Fits-All Frameworks: Ben and Marcel emphasize the risks of trying to unify operational, sales, and accounting frameworks, advocating for purpose-built tools tailored to each team’s needs.
• 30:46 – 43:39 – The Future of Profitability Insights: They conclude by discussing how technology is making enterprise-level profitability analysis more accessible to smaller businesses, empowering agencies to make smarter, data-driven decisions.

• Connect with Ben via LinkedIn
• Free Toolkit
• Parakeeto Foundations Course

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• 00:51 – 01:29 – Introduction to Henrik Becker: Marcel introduces Henrik Becker, an expert in agency coaching, EOS implementation, and CRM systems, now leading Rev Hops to improve agency sales and marketing systems.
• 01:30 – 02:13 – Henrik’s Career Journey: Henrik details his evolution from systematic marketing in 2010 to specializing in CRM platforms like Salesforce and HubSpot, emphasizing management systems for success.
• 03:42 – 04:48 – Aligning CRM with Operations: Marcel and Henrik stress that CRMs and operational tools should address fundamental business issues, adopting a first-principles approach to technology.
• 04:49 – 07:04 – Common CRM Problems: Henrik identifies signs of ineffective CRM use, such as Excel dependency, poor adoption, and data inaccuracies, which undermine sales and marketing efforts.
• 09:18 – 11:24 – CRM Implementation is a Process, Not an Event: CRM implementation requires ongoing adjustments as the business evolves, rather than being treated as a one-time project.
• 11:25 – 13:16 – Steps for a Successful CRM Setup: Henrik outlines a structured CRM setup approach: align on the problem, document processes, define requirements, design solutions, and implement incrementally.
• 16:06 – 18:24 – Focus on Simplicity and Quick Wins: Starting with a simplified CRM setup to deliver quick wins builds momentum, avoiding over-engineered systems.
• 18:25 – 20:42 – Avoiding Operational Complexity: Henrik and Marcel advise against overly complex systems, advocating for implementations aligned with team capabilities.
• 20:43 – 23:08 – Agile vs. Waterfall in CRM Implementation: Henrik critiques improper Agile usage in CRM projects, recommending clear planning and incremental adjustments over chaotic trial-and-error.
• 23:09 – 25:13 – Adapting to Change: Successful CRM implementations require regular updates to keep systems relevant and aligned with business evolution.
• 29:24 – 32:08 – Marcel’s Choice to Build at Scale: Marcel shares his decision to scale Parakeeto, balancing cash flow, risk, and long-term enterprise value.
• 36:06 – 38:54 – Final Words of Advice: Henrik emphasizes prioritizing processes, accountability, and alignment before choosing or changing a CRM system, as software is secondary to clear operations.

• Connect with Henrik
  • LinkedIn
  • RevHops

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• 00:52 – 01:17 – Guest Introduction and Episode Overview: Marcel introduces Kristen Kelly, a member of the consulting team, and previews the episode’s focus on agency management trends, particularly on improving profitability and breaking down silos.
• 02:57 – 05:00 – Challenges with Siloed Agency Models: Kristen explains how siloed operations between sales, delivery, and finance lead to fragmented data, inefficiencies, and breakdowns during planning and execution.
• 05:00 – 07:30 – Modern Agency Realities and Challenges: Marcel highlights the need for integrated systems due to changing client relationships, dynamic pricing models, and rising economic pressures, which strain traditional agency structures.
• 07:30 – 10:00 – What Integrated Agency Management Looks Like: Marcel introduces the concept of integrated management, where real-time alignment between sales, delivery, and finance drives profitability and operational efficiency.
• 12:00 – 14:15 – Common Pitfalls of Over-Reliance on Finance: Kristen and Marcel discuss how relying solely on finance for insights often leads to delays, inaccuracies, and missed opportunities for timely interventions.
• 16:30 – 19:40 – Starting with a Business Model: Marcel outlines the first step in building an integrated system: creating a dynamic business model that connects capacity, pricing, and operational structure.
• 22:00 – 25:00 – Introducing the Feedback Loop: Marcel explains the importance of feedback loops that compare planned data to actual outcomes, enabling agencies to pinpoint areas needing improvement.
• 25:00 – 28:00 – Avoiding the Pitfalls of Bad Data: Marcel discusses the importance of clean, structured data and why agencies often struggle when they attempt tracking without a proper framework.
• 28:00 – 30:00 – The Three Elements of an Integrated System: Marcel introduces the three critical components of a successful system: accurate data, a deliberate framework, and an actionable process.
• 30:00 – 32:30 – Implementing Cadences for Data Review: Kristen and Marcel emphasize the need for regular data review cadences tailored to an agency’s operational pace to maintain alignment and agility.
• 32:30 – 36:00 – Costs of DIY vs. Professional Help: Marcel highlights the opportunity costs and challenges of attempting to build an integrated system internally compared to leveraging expert frameworks.
• 36:00 – 38:53 – TLDR for 2025 Planning: Marcel summarizes the episode’s main takeaway: transitioning from siloed to integrated systems is crucial for improving agency profitability and operational alignment, starting with a simple business model.

• Connect with Kristen via LinkedIn
• Free Toolkit
• Parakeeto Foundations Course

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• 00:49 – 01:50 – Introduction to Ryan McNamara: Marcel introduces Ryan McNamara, Head of Operations at Rise at Seven, and highlights his impressive journey from startup founder to agency leader.
• 01:51 – 03:00 – Building Rise at Seven: Ryan discusses the rapid growth of Rise at Seven, their creative-first, search-driven approach, and their international presence in the UK and US.
• 04:21 – 05:40 – Defining Operational Leadership: Ryan explains the challenges and responsibilities of operational leadership, emphasizing the importance of understanding finance, team dynamics, and business goals.
• 08:11 – 09:20 – The Rise of Operations in Agencies: The growing emphasis on operations and finance as key to agency survival is discussed, with insights on how agencies are adapting to a more competitive and demanding market.
• 10:41 – 12:00 – Leveraging Personal Development Plans: The importance of structured PDPs (Personal Development Plans) and appraisals to help team members see their growth trajectory and contribution to the business is explored.
• 12:01 – 13:20 – Process vs. Flexibility: Ryan explains the balance between setting processes for consistency and allowing flexibility for creativity and innovation within teams.
• 13:21 – 14:50 – Managing Team Growth and Churn: The challenge of managing team growth in alignment with business needs while mitigating churn and ensuring cultural fit is unpacked.
• 17:21 – 18:40 – Balancing Risk and Innovation: The discussion explores how agencies can manage operational risks without stifling creativity, enabling teams to focus on outcomes while maintaining flexibility in their processes.
• 21:31 – 22:50 – Fostering Team Accountability: Insights are shared on creating systems where every team member understands their role in driving the business forward and how their contributions impact overall performance.
• 24:01 – 25:30 – The Evolving Role of Operations: The conversation shifts to how operations professionals are becoming pivotal thought leaders, connecting finance, delivery, and team dynamics in modern agencies.
• 25:31 – 26:50 – Challenges in Standardizing Processes: Ryan discusses the difficulty of standardizing processes in a creative environment, where flexibility is often required to deliver exceptional outcomes.
• 29:41 – 31:00 – Advice for Aspiring Operators: Ryan offers advice for those stepping into operational roles, encouraging them to focus on outcomes, embrace adaptability, and prioritize team empowerment.

• Connect with Ryan
  • LinkedIn
  • Rise at Seven

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• 00:00 – 00:47 – Intro and Gratitude: Marcel thanks listeners and sets up the episode's focus on benchmarking traps and performance evaluation.
• 00:47 – 01:33 – The Benchmarking Trap: Marcel introduces the risks of relying on external benchmarks instead of understanding your agency’s internal performance model.
• 01:33 – 02:53 – Rate Benchmarking Limitations: Marcel explains why comparing rates fails to provide meaningful insights, especially with modern pricing models.
• 02:53 – 05:00 – Flat Fees and Efficiency: He discusses the rise of value-based and project pricing, and how efficiency affects realized rates.
• 05:00 – 06:08 – Realized Rates vs. Rate Cards: Marcel highlights that listed rates (rate cards) rarely reflect the actual rates agencies earn.
• 06:08 – 07:29 – The Power of Average Billable Rate: Marcel introduces average billable rate as a more meaningful metric, blending efficiency and pricing insights.
• 07:29 – 09:30 – Challenges in Measurement: Marcel explains why few firms measure key metrics like average billable rate and the inconsistencies in benchmarking them.
• 09:30 – 12:26 – Revenue per FTE Caution: He critiques absolute revenue-per-FTE benchmarks, emphasizing cost structure and geography's role in profitability.
• 12:26 – 14:00 – Look Inward First: Marcel urges agencies to focus inward on their business models instead of seeking external validation.
• 14:00 – 17:33 – Understanding Your Agency Model: Marcel explains how to map team structure, capacity, and time allocation to determine delivery and utilization ceilings.
• 17:33 – 19:48 – Budgets and Cost Breakdown: He emphasizes categorizing hard costs into delivery, sales, admin, and facilities to build a clear financial model.
• 19:48 – 22:44 – Revenue Potential Example: Marcel demonstrates how capacity, utilization rate, and average billable rate determine an agency's revenue potential.
• 22:44 – 25:00 – Delivery Margin and Overhead Benchmarks: He shares benchmarks for delivery margin (50–60%) and overhead costs (20–30% of AGI) to evaluate profitability.
• 25:00 – 28:47 – Operating Profit Targets: Marcel outlines healthy operating profit margins (20–30%) and explains how utilization and billable rates interact within a model.
• 28:47 – 31:00 – Beta Tool for Agencies: Marcel announces Parakeeto’s beta software for modeling agency performance, offering free access for listeners to analyze and improve their businesses.

• Pricing models / Margin Targets
• Episode on Rates
• Toolkit Link
• Link for our beta free access to our model software

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• 00:47 – 01:38 – Chris’s Background: Chris shares his experience supporting consultants and facilitators in achieving measurable impact.
• 02:07 – 03:04 – The Challenge of Change Management: Agencies face difficulty educating stakeholders and driving meaningful organizational change.
• 04:03 – 05:26 – Behavior Change Precedes Results: Chris explains the importance of tracking behavior shifts that lead to KPI improvements.
• 05:26 – 06:33 – Ambiguity in Brand Strategy: Marcel highlights challenges caused by subjective opinions and delayed results in brand strategy.
• 08:31 – 09:44 – Three Requirements for Behavior Change: Chris identifies a clear path, motivation, and knowledge as key to driving behavioral change.
• 13:43 – 15:06 – Chunking Tasks into Smaller Steps: Chris emphasizes reducing ambiguity with small, actionable steps to drive progress.
• 19:01 – 20:14 – Feedback Loops and Impact Signals: Self-reported change helps measure progress before observable or KPI results emerge.
• 21:56 – 23:10 – Connecting Daily Actions to Outcomes: Chris stresses clarifying small tasks that contribute to long-term project success.
• 23:10 – 24:36 – KPIs and Leading Indicators: Identifying relevant KPIs and leading indicators creates measurable goals for success.
• 26:04 – 27:45 – Aligning on Success Metrics: Chris highlights the importance of aligning with clients on clear success metrics and tracking progress.
• 27:45 – 29:30 – Behavioral Change Before Visibility: Change begins internally and becomes externally observable over time.
• 34:36 – 36:00 – Triple Double Framework: Chris introduces a structured approach—double down on strengths, double back on gaps, and double click on new information.

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  • LinkedIn
  • Actional.co
  • Behavior Change Toolkit

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• 00:42 – 01:16 – Industry Stats Nerd: Marcel highlights Carson’s expertise in analyzing agency reports and introduces the core topic of navigating the agency world’s "new normal."
• 03:00 – 04:10 – Financial Challenges in 2024: Carson explains how financial tightening, including cash flow and reserve issues, has become a significant pain point for agencies in the past year.
• 04:11 – 06:15 – The “New Normal” for Agencies: Discussion about how the agency landscape is stabilizing into a "new normal," marked by consistent challenges and tighter margins.
• 06:16 – 10:10 – Impact of Market Maturity and Global Trends: Marcel outlines how market maturity, globalization, AI, and freelancing trends are reshaping the competitive environment for agencies.
• 10:11 – 14:47 – The Metrics that Matter: Marcel and Carson identify the three core levers of agency profitability: cost per hour, utilization, and average billable rate.
• 14:48 – 18:35 – Improving Average Billable Rate: Marcel shares strategies to increase average billable rates without raising prices, focusing on efficiency, quality, and offering high-value services.
• 20:50 – 22:38 – Utilizing AI for Operational Efficiency: The conversation shifts to how AI can improve efficiency in content creation, client management, and operational workflows.
• 22:39 – 27:18 – Effectively Measuring and Managing Utilization: Marcel explains how to measure and use utilization effectively, debunking myths and aligning it with realistic agency models.
• 27:19 – 35:45 – Internal Specialization and Future-Proofing Agencies: Carson introduces the concept of internal specialization, where agencies focus on high-value tasks while outsourcing lower-margin, high-risk work to specialized partners. A case study of an SEO agency illustrates this model.
• 24:44 – 26:10 – Balancing Overhead and Delivery Teams: Discussion on the importance of properly modeling agency teams to maintain a balance between delivery capacity and profitability.
• 34:22 – 35:00 – Importance of Quality Over Quantity in Revenue: Carson and Marcel highlight the value of focusing on high-margin, high-quality work rather than expanding into low-margin offerings.

• Connect with Carson via LinkedIn
• Agency Profit Toolkit
• The Parakeeto Foundations Course

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