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Today I welcome back my guest, Grant Young, for a conversation that couldn’t be more timely—or more urgent. Together, we take a hard look at the impact of Charlie Kirk, both before and after his tragic death on a college campus, an event that has left people across the country divided, grieving, and searching for answers.

Charlie Kirk rose quickly to national prominence as a central figure in America’s culture wars. He brought politics into the sanctuary, blending evangelical worship with MAGA rallies and voter registration drives. His voice was amplified not only in churches and stadiums, but also in classrooms and legislatures, shaping policy and public perception. Statues in his honor now appear, intended to symbolize dialogue and civil discourse. But do they?

We dig into the contradictions: the image of Kirk as a promoter of “unity” versus the inflammatory rhetoric that too often marked his public statements—about race, religion, immigration, and political opponents. Were his words an expression of truth-telling conviction, or a rejection of the very ideals of mutual respect and dialogue?

Grant and I will explore what Kirk’s rise—and his sudden, violent end—means for the future of faith and politics in America, and what lessons higher education, the church, and all of us might learn in this moment.

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Ken welcomes Washington political commentator, speechwriter, and author Peter Wehner. Pete is a contributing writer at The Atlantic and a senior fellow at the Trinity Forum. He is well known for his prolific contribution to the intersection of politics, public policy, and faith. Early on, he identified as a conservative, a Republican, and an Evangelical. From 2011, when Donald Trump campaigned to challenge the legitimacy of the Obama Presidency, suggesting that he was born in Kenya and not the U.S.A., Wehner has called out the danger of a Trump presidency. Pete has been a stalwart in opposing Donald Trump and in the process, he no longer identifies as a Republican or an Evangelical. He remains a traditional conservative. However, he has offered a powerful and sustained critique of evangelical support for Donald Trump and a Republican Party that has become subservient to the newly elected President. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson played a key role in that transition. Ken and Pete have a lively discussion over his early years as a new Christian, his college career, the influence of his scientist father, his move to Washington, Reagan’s speech after the Challenger disaster, George Bush’s 9/11 speech (Pete was in the White House that fateful day), and finally Donald Trump’s complete take-over of the Republican Party and his return to the White House for a second term. SHOW NOTES

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Today, Betsey and I reconvene after nearly a month. 

NOTE: This conversation was recorded before the tragic murder of Charlie Kirk. We talk about the headlines that dominated the news prior to the horrible, very public shooting in Utah - and issues that should not be forgotten.

The President has targeted Chicago, Betsey’s hometown, with the National Guard. He calls it a hoplessly crime-ridden city. Illinois Governor JB Pritzker and Mayor Brandon Johnson are pushing back hard, calling it more like shameless political payback than public policy. Protesters pour into the streets. It’s made a difference. 

Meanwhile, the President is busy renaming the Department of Defense the Department of War. His birthday letter to Jeffrey Epstein has been made public, while the country waits for the Epstein files to be fully released. The victims of Epstein’s crimes are ready to expose names.

We’ll also talk about Robert Kennedy Jr.’s explosive testimony before Congress, the latest drama at the CDC, and the sudden firing of Dr. Susan Monarez. 

We also visit the legacy of Dr. James Dobson. Betsey shares her informed memories.

And on a more personal note, Betsey and I dig into The Atlantic’s article, The Marriage Effect, which challenges the idea that family life makes women unhappy—it suggests the opposite.

Join us for a lively conversation.

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Because of the shocking news regarding Charlie Kirk, I'm postponing the Beach Talk with Betsey Newenhuyse that we recorded this week. Listen in to our 6.5-minute reflection.

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Ken Fong and I unpack the life and legacy of Dr. James Dobson, who just recently passed away. For many of us, Dobson’s voice was a constant presence in American evangelical homes. He was the trusted “family counselor” who seemed to offer simple, practical guidance about raising children, strengthening marriages, and protecting the home. His books—Dare to Discipline, Bringing Up Boys, Bringing Up Girls—were bestsellers, and his radio program reached countless millions. They shaped how countless parents understood what it meant to raise a family in a “Christian” way. 

On the surface, it all seemed non-political, even innocent.

But as the years progressed, it became clear that Dobson was building something much bigger than a parenting movement. He founded Focus on the Family, moved his empire to Colorado Springs, and began to insert himself more directly into politics. Along the way, he inspired children’s programming and homeschooling curriculum. He trained thousands of young people in “Biblical World View.” He became an outspoken promoter of Donald Trump. He engineered the identification of white evangelicalism with the Religious Right, commandeering the Republican Party into an unrelenting culture war. 

Ken Fong shares his research on the roots of Dobson’s work in the discredited “science” of eugenics and names his mentor in psychology, the famed eugenicist and atheist Paul Popenoe.

As Senator Barry Goldwater warned back in 1980, when religious leaders gain control of a political party, it creates a dangerous situation. Goldwater said, “These people believe they’re acting in the name of God, so they can’t and won’t compromise.” Dobson embodied that posture - NO COMPROMISE.

For those of us who grew up under his influence, the costs were real. His insistence on “breaking the spirit” of children, corporal punishment, his crusade against the LGBTQ+ community — fighting same-sex marriage in California’s Prop 8 campaign, promoting conversion therapy, framing homosexuality as a threat to children—all of these left deep wounds. Add to all that, he applauded and facilitated the election of this current wrecking-ball administration.    

As we remember his legacy, we must not ignore his undeniable contribution to the rancorous Us-versus-Them culture in our perilously divided nation. 

In this episode, Ken Fong and I peel back the layers of Dobson’s legacy. His death may close a chapter, but the impact of his divisive ideology continues to shape families, churches, and American politics.

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In this episode, I sit down with two longtime friends of the podcast: Osahon Obazuaye, pastor and activist, and Grant Young, who holds both undergraduate and graduate degrees from one of America’s leading evangelical universities. Both of them bring firsthand experience as Black men navigating predominantly white evangelical spaces—churches, classrooms, and institutions that shaped their faith journeys in both inspiring and challenging ways.

We discuss the powerful new documentary, “Black + Evangelical”—a film that shines a spotlight on the history, struggles, and contributions of African American evangelicals. The documentary amplifies voices that too often go unheard, voices like Dr. Vincent Bacote, theologian and ethicist at Wheaton College; the late Dr. William E. Pannell, co-founder of the National Black Evangelical Association; historian and author Jemar Tisby; and the unforgettable preacher Tom Skinner, whose Urbana ’70 sermon still resonates today. We even revisit the legacy of Howard O. Jones, the first Black associate evangelist with Billy Graham.

This conversation is eye-opening, personal, and at times raw—but it’s also deeply hopeful. We unpack the film, share stories, and challenge assumptions about what it really means to be both Black and evangelical in America.

So join us —you’ll come away inspired, challenged, and ready for more.

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Today I welcome a familiar voice and a longtime friend—Dr. Randall Balmer. Back in the day, when we were “Trinity Men,” he was “Randy” to me. Today, he’s Dr. Balmer—historian, author, professor, and one of the leading voices on religion in America. He earned his graduate degrees at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Princeton, and Union Theological Seminary, and this marks our third interview together.

Randall recently published a powerful piece in the Los Angeles Times about the 1925 Scopes Trial—often remembered as the showdown between Genesis and Darwin. He reminds us that the trial wasn’t supposed to be about evolution at all, but that’s where it landed. William Jennings Bryan thundered that “if evolution wins, Christianity goes.” Clarence Darrow countered, “It’s not Scopes on trial—it’s civilization.” Nearly a century later, the questions linger.

Randall also brings us into his latest book, America’s Best Idea: The Separation of Church and State. It’s a sweeping story—Roger Williams’s “hedge of separation,” Jefferson’s Danbury letter, Madison, Adams, and the First Amendment—all the way to today’s battles over vouchers, religious schools, and the religious right. Along the way, we’ll talk about court rulings, culture wars, and the ongoing debate over whether America is a Christian nation—or a nation that protects the freedom of every faith, and of no faith at all.

It’s always a rich conversation when Dr. Balmer joins me, and today is no exception. 

Come on along with us! SHOW NOTES

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Today, I’m here with my good friend and fellow podcaster, Ken Fong. Every week, the two of us dig deep into the big conversations shaping our lives, our culture, and the soul of our nation. We come to you from different vantage points, different life experiences, but with a shared commitment to truth, curiosity, and connection.

This week, we talk about something that’s been quietly eroding the way we live together as Americans — the loss of a national audience. Remember when 34 million people tuned in to watch The Cosby Show? Today, Stephen Colbert barely pulls in 3 million viewers. We’re living in silos now, fragmented into tribes, each consuming our own narrow stream of information. Entertainment. E pluribus unum — out of many, one — feels more like a historical slogan than a lived reality.

We’ll also tackle the ongoing culture wars: from attacks on diversity, equity, and inclusion, to the rise of a “colorblind” narrative that erases cultural heritage, to the growing movement to merge church and state. Figures like Doug Wilson, Pete Hegseth, Russell Vought, and Charlie Kirk are openly advocating for a theocratic America — one where women are subordinate and “Christian nationalism” rules the land.

And beyond politics, we’re looking at the real impact of fear and division — from ICE raids in our neighborhoods to the suppression of voices that challenge the status quo.

It’s time to wake up. 

Join us in the conversation.

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I’m honored to welcome Dr. Edward J. Larson to this episode of the podcast. Dr. Larson is the Pulitzer Prize-winning author of Summer for the Gods: The Scopes Trial and America's Continuing Debate Over Science and Religion, a landmark work that reexamines the 1925 Scopes “Monkey” Trial with fresh insight and scholarly depth.

In our conversation, Dr. Larson challenges the familiar narrative popularized by Inherit the Wind, revealing the Scopes Trial as far more than a simple clash between science and religion. It was, in fact, a complex cultural moment shaped by political ambition, regional identity, national media, and the anxieties of a rapidly modernizing society.

We explore key figures—Clarence Darrow, William Jennings Bryan, and John Scopes—and their roles in this iconic legal battle. Dr. Larson offers fascinating context around Bryan’s progressive credentials, his anti-evolution stance, and his public persona as a speaker and political leader. We also discuss the broader implications of the trial for American legal and educational systems, and how its legacy continues to inform today’s debates over religion in public life, science education, and Christian nationalism.

Dr. Larson reflects on his personal and academic journey, from his early years to his study from college, to grad school, to law school, and his doctoral dissertation on the history of science. He shares what inspired his deep investigation into the Scopes Trial—ultimately culminating in the Pulitzer Prize in 1998. 

This episode is both thought-provoking and timely. I invite you to join me for a meaningful conversation that sheds new light on a pivotal moment in American history. SHOW NOTES

Ken’s Substack: Scopes in 2025

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My guest is Matt Mikalatos — author, screenwriter, producer, and all-around brilliant storyteller. 

He has written award-winning books, including the beautifully illustrated graphic novel God With Us, the devotional Praying with Saint Nicholas, and an imaginative Young Adult fantasy series, The Sunlit Lands. He’s also co-authored Loving Disagreement with Kathy Khang — a timely, powerful book about how to stay in relationship, even when the culture says it’s time to cancel.

As an undergraduate student in creative writing at the University of California, Riverside, Matt studied under the Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist, Percival Everett, author of the wildly popular novel entitled JAMES.  

Matt’s story doesn’t stop there. He spent 20 years with a global campus ministry (Campus Crusade for Christ now known as CRU), lived in China, became fluent in Mandarin, and worked deeply in cross-cultural ministry. He’s seen the evolution — or devolution — of Evangelicalism from the inside, and he doesn’t shy away from talking about it. From Trumpism and anti-democratic rhetoric to hot-button issues like immigration, LGBTQ rights, and even “chainsaw massacre” politics, we go there — and Matt helps us understand the power of story over shouting matches.

There’s exciting news - he’s just been notified that a script he’s written has been greenlit. The production of a full-length feature film begins soon, with filming in Thailand.

Join me as Matt and I talk about faith, storytelling, culture, and how, in this divided world, we can still communicate and respect each other — even when we disagree. It’s a lively, eye-opening, and deeply human exchange you won’t want to miss. SHOW NOTES

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