Getting the name right, first thing — P-E-L-L-E-T-I-E-R

 Only child, gifted kid, self-described loner: the bike as an instrument of exploration

 Streetlights as the only curfew, and what kids lose without that

 People-watching from a bicycle seat, and inventing stories about strangers — a habit that never left her

 First job at eleven: booking appointments, running cash, sweeping floors, laundering towels

 Babysitting at $2 an hour

 Assistant manager at fourteen, coaching adults decades older

 "Turtle shell outside, marshmallow inside — somewhere between don't mess with me and do you want a hug"

 Why the all-business mask came first, and why vulnerability came later

 Adopted at four out of a violent early childhood

 "Tori, you need to do better than us" — and the crucial distinction between better than where I came from and better than any person

 No money for the high school graduation trip

 Book five arrives September 16

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Jeanine Lum never set out to become an inventor. A W2 employee with no manufacturing background, she stumbled into her business idea the hard way, through a series of wine mishaps that most collectors will wince at. A bottle left in a car in Paso Robles pushed its own cork out from heat. A year later, a cardboard box holding roughly $1,400 worth of wine tipped over on a winding road trip. Those two moments sent her looking for a real solution, and she quickly discovered that nothing on the market actually protected the wine itself, only the bottle.

What follows is a candid look at the long road from idea to finished product. Jeanine talks about working with a project manager who had never had a drop of wine in his life and struggled to understand what she was trying to protect, the costly cycle of redesigned molds, and the patent attorneys who came and went before she found the right partner. She eventually landed on an interlocking, modular ice pack system inspired by an ice pack she received in a box of chocolates, built specifically to accommodate the height of wine bottles, something she says most coolers on the market completely ignore.

Forrest and Jeanine also dig into the practical side of the product, from the six-pack and twelve-pack ice systems and how long each holds its chill, to the zipper lube that keeps the airtight seal easy to manage, to why she intentionally avoided pre-filled gel packs in favor of simple water. Along the way, she shares a great story about a conversation with Hydro Flask's Travis Rosbach, who admitted his industry had missed the mark entirely on wine drinkers. It's a fun, honest conversation about persistence, unexpected mentors, and building something from a problem nobody else thought to solve.

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Justin Ennis, Senior Director of Winemaking for Joseph Phelps Vineyards in Sonoma County, responsible for the Sonoma Coast wines under the Freestone brand — a role he's held for 20 years. Justin shares how he grew up surrounded by vineyards, with a wine-loving grandfather on one side and a family vineyard in Healdsburg's Russian River on the other, yet never considered wine a career until his stepfather (then at Kendall-Jackson's Hartford Court) suggested harvest intern work. His first vintage was 1995 under winemaker Dan Goldfield, doing the unglamorous cellar-rat work: power washing, punch downs, barrel cleaning. The revelation? Working alongside interns from Portugal, France, and Australia through the CAEP agricultural exchange visa program — and realizing winemaking could be his passport to the wider world.

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From a family bakery in Sicily to founding a non-alcoholic wine brand in Dallas, Anto's path to CLINQ ZERO runs through aerospace engineering, Fiat, agriculture, Tetra Pak, and five years selling winery equipment across North America. In this full conversation with Forrest, Anto shares the story behind the CLINQ ZERO name, the mixed reaction from friends and family back in Italy where wine tradition runs deep, and the process that sets the brand apart: starting from premium wine, dealcoholizing at ambient temperature, and skipping the sugar and artificial flavoring most competitors rely on to mask what's lost. The conversation also covers the bigger picture — alcohol consumption dropping globally, the opportunity that creates for non-alcoholic wine, and CLINQ ZERO's three-variety lineup of Sparkling Blanc, Sparkling Rosé, and Sparkling Red, available in both glass bottle and can. Anto closes with his five-year vision: CLINQ ZERO as the brand people keep in the fridge for weddings, baby showers, and pizza night, with founder pricing available now on pre-order ahead of late-summer delivery.

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The rapid-fire rundown: Joe Phelps began his search for the perfect cool-climate site in the 90s. The two estate vineyards behind the vineyard-designate wines are Quarter Moon and Pastorale. Before this year's national release, the wines were only available winery direct or through the Phelps Preferred membership.

The 2024 Pastorale Chardonnay carries an oceanic signature — Forrest's notes say saline breezes, Justin says salt air, and they call it close enough. That leads to the best moment of the episode: Justin admits even winemakers struggle with wine adjectives. His advice? If something creates thought provocation and you keep wanting to drink it, that's the clear-cut sign of quality. Skip the fluffy wine words. Make it accessible for everyone — which is exactly what The Best 5 Minute Wine Podcast is all about.

More from the hot seat: Joseph Phelps joined the Moët Hennessy side of LVMH (Louis Vuitton Moët Hennessy) in 2022 — the LV side is fashion and perfume, Moët Hennessy is wine and spirits. The two natural forces shaping the Freestone microclimate: the Pacific Ocean and the Petaluma Gap, funneling marine air and fog into Sonoma County. The tiny town of Freestone sits off a quiet highway heading toward Bodega Bay. Joseph Phelps farms roughly 500 acres across nine estate vineyards. The most accessible bottle in the lineup, the 2023 Freestone Sonoma Coast Pinot Noir, comes in at $75. And the 2023 Quarter Moon Pinot? For lovers of savory texture, depth, and ageability. Mic drop.

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What does success actually look like five years into building a non-alcoholic wine brand? For Anto, founder of CLINQ ZERO, it's simple: becoming the bottle people keep in the fridge for weddings, baby showers, and pizza nights — and converting soda and beer drinkers to sparkling red along the way. In this final installment, Anto talks candidly about life after two decades in the corporate world, why he genuinely enjoys talking to strangers about the brand, and what separates CLINQ ZERO's ingredient list from competitors that compensate for lost flavor with sugar. He also shares the practical details: the Sparkling Blanc is available for pre-order now at CLINQ ZERO, with delivery expected late summer, and early supporters can lock in founder pricing — 30% off, the lowest price the brand will ever offer.

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Why Pinot Noir? For Justin, it's the flavor and the challenge — a difficult grape to grow and a difficult wine to make, which makes a phenomenal vintage from Quarter Moon or Pastorale that much sweeter. He believes with every fiber of his body that Pinot Noir is one of the most food-friendly wines on the planet: it ages beautifully, but you can drink it young and still sense the quality. Having your cake and eating it too.

Justin's advice for anyone just getting into wine: starting with a price point is fine, but don't stop there. Get out of your comfort zone and be willing to spend a little more — that's how you discover the full range of quality out there. He's watched friends do exactly that with Freestone wines, and the reaction is always the same: holy cow.

Then the news — this year Freestone made its first small domestic release of the single-vineyard wines into the national market. The Pastorale Pinot Noir, Quarter Moon Pinot Noir, and Pastorale Chardonnay are now in 11 markets including New York, Chicago, and Florida (Miami, Orlando, Tampa) — roughly 500 cases each, pulled from the Phelps Preferred club allocation. Justin explains the direct-to-consumer double-edged sword: it's the most profitable route, but the greater world doesn't know you exist. Long-term growth means getting into top accounts and top restaurants — slowly and consistently.

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Did you know San Pellegrino comes out of the ground already sparkling? Anto shares that detail in this CLINQ ZERO conversation, right before walking through the brand's full product lineup: Sparkling Blanc, Sparkling Rosé, and Sparkling Red, each offered in a traditional 750ml glass bottle and a 12-ounce can. The two also dig into why cans resonate with consumers who want portion control — no recorking, no spilling, just a controlled pour, hot or cold. Anto explains his bigger vision for the sparkling red as a potential alternative to soda or sparkling water, and reflects on what's been most satisfying about building in a growing category: the curiosity from consumers, and CLINQ ZERO's mission to bring transparency to a space where not every brand is being honest about what's really in the bottle.

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Forrest asks the question wine lovers wonder in the store aisle: what's the story behind the price? Justin lays it out plainly. Freestone employs its own in-house vineyard staff of 12 to 15 people — with benefits, 401k match, retirement, vacation, and paid holidays. That's high-touch, high-detail farming, and it's part of every bottle's price. Lower-priced wines often farm vastly differently: farming for quantity, machine harvesting, contracted labor instead of in-house crews.

Location matters too. The Sonoma Coast's proximity to the ocean means protecting the fruit can take dramatically more vineyard passes than warmer inland sites — Justin ballparks 35 sprays versus maybe 10 on the Napa Valley floor. Add barrel programs like 100% French oak, and the true cost of a bottle comes into focus.

Then Forrest asks the emotional question: does it ever get old watching someone taste your wine for the first time? Never, says Justin. Memories are created over the wines his team makes — and humans have been fermenting and gathering around the table since we started walking the planet. A meal, an amazing bottle, and laughs: the communal ritual we should never lose.

And his favorite from the lineup? No hesitation: "Pinot Noir is my amour." His deserted-island wine, through and through — with a deep love of Chardonnay right behind it.

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What actually gets removed when you dealcoholize wine — and what gets left behind? In Part 3 of this CLINQ ZERO conversation, founder Anto explains how the distillation-based process specifically targets alcohol molecules, leaving natural compounds like resveratrol intact, without leaning on artificial wine flavoring to fake what's lost. He also covers the regulatory upside of going alcohol-free: no distributor required, no age-21 disclaimer, and a direct-to-consumer model that's opened the door for CLINQ ZERO to sell straight to customers in the U.S. Anto gets candid about the bigger picture too — alcohol consumption is dropping globally, and he sees non-alcoholic wine as both an opportunity for the wine industry and a chance to chip away at the stigma still attached to the category. The episode wraps with the thinking behind CLINQ ZERO's packaging: a glass bottle for celebratory, premium occasions, and a can built for tailgates, beaches, and anywhere glass isn't practical.

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