The Box Office Podcast

A longer and more digression-packed episode than usual, because now semi-regular special guest Aaron Neuwirth kept talking and talking and talking. Sadly, he has been banned from The Box Office Podcast until no earlier than September 21. Although if there’s a movie (re)opening on the weekend of August 15 that justifies a cameo…

The core discussion is, obviously, what a massive dip for Fantastic Four says about the chickens coming home to roost in the MCU. We also find ample time to discuss The Bad Guys 2’s perfectly okay opening, mixed signals for The Naked Gun’s attempts to “save” the comedy movie (volume = victory) and a surprisingly rock-solid debut for Neon’s Together.

As of this writing, Fantastic Four: First Steps has earned $142.25 million after five days in North American theaters, jumping an “impressive as Superman” 36% from its $10.4 million Monday for a $14.2 million Tuesday. Concerns about a shockingly frontloaded weekend (barely double its $57 million Friday and 21% of its $117.64 million weekend stemming from Thursday previews) notwithstanding, it’s not like the film is collapsing into oblivion now that the hardcore MCU fans have checked it off their proverbial lists.

That was the general impression offered up in this latest episode of The Box Office Podcast, namely that Marvel’s latest was a step in the right direction (after the also pretty good Thunderbolts*) in terms of consistent quality and (in terms of Marvel rebooting a previously adapted property) “better-than-before” spectacle and melodrama. Beyond that…

Lisa Laman questions whether Shalla-Bal replaced Norrin Radd to allow Johnny Storm to “safely” find himself #HotForTheSurfer (relatable...).

Scott Mendelson wonders if the decision to set the standalone film in a fantastical version of 1960s America was an attempt to avoid dealing with real-world topicality.

Jeremy Fuster offers pretty plausible explanations for both (subjectively valid) choices. However, he agrees with the group that any goodwill earned from the Fantastic Four will do little to move the needle in terms of Avengers: Doomsday feeling (at this juncture) like anything other than a past-tense nostalgia cash-in.

However, as befitting his status as the host of the show, Scott Mendelson (when he’s not making fun of crying children) asks the most critical question: how the hell can an interdimensional being who is barely as tall as Godzilla eat an entire planet?

Our guest, longtime film journalist and current Fangoria Managing Editor Meredith Borders, joins us all the way from Germany to discuss how Superman is inspired by and appeals to fans of Smallville, as well as to what extent The Smurfs is still popular in Europe. All agree that Superman is absolutely becoming a “normal people give a damn” event movie, trying to legacy-sequel-ize I Know What You Did Last Summer was a doomed and depressing prospect, and Eddington was always fated to be more blogged about then seen. Also, Jeremy Fuster explains why Paramount wasn’t neccessarily looking at global box office for a yay/nay verdict on Smurf, while all parties give their thoughts as to why Clark Kent continues to remain a mostly domestic-skewing property even as Peter Parker and Steve Rogers have become global superstars.

James Gunn’s acclaimed and buzzy Superman opened in North America with $125 million toward a $95 million overseas launch. The domestic grosses are good enough, especially with thus-far strong weekday earnings ($12.9 million on Monday, $17 million on Tuesday and $11.8 million on Wednesday) to compensate for thus-far lousy international grosses.

And the buzz is closer to Batman Begins than Superman Returns, so we invited TheWrap’s resident scooper and geek-specific (but not IP-exclusive) film journalist, Umberto Gonzalez, to answer “Why is this IP franchise reboot different from all other IP franchise reboots?”

Jeremy Fuster discusses how this furthers the notion of Warner Bros. Discovery’s attempts at theatrical consistency. Lisa Laman laments the lack of anything resembling counterprogramming similar to My Best Friend’s Wedding, The Devil Wears Prada, or This Is the End that once greeted other Batman and/or Superman movies. Scott Mendelson somewhat plays the “bad cop,” partially due to the lack of competition and the presumption of a crushing-all-comers strength, amid otherwise cautious optimism, and approval of the film’s politics.

Longtime Jurassic super-fan (and more recent Clown in a Cornfield mega-fan) Ryan Scott returns to the fourth chair to talk about dinosaurs and movies about dinosaurs. The numbers ($148 million over five days in North America and $322 million worldwide) are unquestionably huge, even without IMAX screens. However, this standalone, presumably one-and-done entry still sparks questions about where the franchise can or should go for the inevitable next chapter. Cowardly Ryan slightly disagrees with courageous Scott about whether Universal and Amblin should go full “Jonathan Sayles’ Jurassic Park IV.” Meanwhile, Scott throws out his daughter’s rather good pitch that he probably shouldn’t have uttered without copywriting, Lisa suggests uh… cloning Ronald Reagan (?), and Jeremy is completely indifferent beyond the financial results.

I’ve often said that I was exactly the right age to initially think that Power Rangers was idiotic when it debuted in 1993, only to come to appreciate it when my kids discovered it in the early 2010s. Be it “good” or “bad,” it’s unlike anything else that existed before or (save for attempted knock-offs) since. In retrospect, it was an example of a large-scale commercial triumph, partly due to being the first of its kind and by delivering previously “foreign” genre elements to young American audiences.

It proved to be a gateway drug for all kinds of geeky and fantastical properties, including a gradual move towards a “mainstream” acceptance of anime outside of Japan, while serving as a one-stop shop for everything (giant robots, slimy monsters, kaiju mayhem, martial arts, slapstick comedy, YA soap opera, and more) that a stereotypical American kid might crave. Furthermore, its difficulty in achieving commercial success beyond the small screen and the toy aisle early on highlighted the challenges of attaining cross-platform success.

So it was with great interest that I scooped up Morphemenal, written by Kentucky-based journalist Joshua Moore. As hoped, it’s a captivating one-stop shop for everything notable related to the creation, evolution, and pop culture impact of the Power Rangers. It’s packed with nuggets of “new to me” trivia. For example, I somehow never knew that the first, now-30-year-old Power Rangers movie was essentially an Elseworld. It also provides a comprehensive context for more well-known historical nuggets, such as how the 9/11 attacks affected the show and the unpleasant circumstances behind David Yost’s departure.

It all adds up to a singular tome that celebrates the show’s successes without ignoring its artistic and/or economic shortcomings. We spent most of the (edited for clarity and length) 75-minute conversation discussing our differing and mutual experiences with the property, its of-the-moment and in retrospect cultural impact and whether the franchise, which aired its “final” television season in 2023, is truly done. While we do discuss factoids and history that can be found in the book, I have tried to avoid extensively detailing its contents. I still want you to buy or borrow it and read it yourself. And with that, Forces of darkness empow… wait, sorry… I meant, “It’s Moprhin’ Time.”

The good news is that F1 just nabbed a big win for Apple’s bumpy theatrical ambitions. The bad news is that M3GAN 2.0 continued Blumhouse’s less-than-stellar track record with sequels, which was less of an issue even a few years ago when their originals and non-sequels were kicking ass on the regular. And the truly ugly news drops at around the hour-mark as Lisa Laman reads as-it-drops reporting confirming all our worst fears about why Pixar’s Elio was delayed and what was changed from the allegedly nearly finished original cut.

This week’s topic, obviously, is what happened to Elio, whether Pixar is finished as a butts-in-seats brand for original animated films, and (without blaming any single factor as a zero-sum explanation) who and what is responsible.

Special guest Josh Spiegel, who wrote the book(s) on Pixar, blames Bob Chapek for sending three key original Pixar films to Disney+ during the early days of the streaming war.

Lisa Laman notes that Pixar hasn’t been a “the name is enough” brand since the mid-2010s.

Jeremy Fuster attributes the decline to audiences voting for more of what they already know while noting that Disney is at least trying to put out big-deal original toons in a brutal marketplace.

Scott Mendelson, while agreeing with all of that, highlights the tragedy of what should have been a decade—both for Pixar and Walt Disney Animation—focused on buzzy originals, instead becoming centered on rehashing the most significant commercial successes of the previous decade.

Oh, and 28 Years Later opened pretty damn well for an R-rated grimdark zombie flick, and concerns about possible frontloading mainly relate to the two sequels presumably on the way. And, huzzah, Sinners has passed the global total of The Nun to take its place as uh, the jazziest chapter of the Conjuring Universe?

In terms of the written word…

Scott Mendelson discusses whether the success of How to Train Your Dragon will or should kick-start a wave of DreamWorks live-action remakes.

Lisa Laman does the lord’s work in demanding that James Gunn do what is needed and give us the Detective Chimp movie we need and deserve. In more, less #importantjournalisms, she also notes that the romantic comedy need not continually having prove itself at the box office (which frankly has become a circumstance for almost any genre save for horror and, bemusingly, DC/Marvel flicks) and details why she believes Pixar lost its pop culture juice (quality of films like Turning Red and Soul notwithstanding) a decade ago.

Jeremy Fuster notes how the industry-wide employment crisis has now migrated to post-production. Spoiler - Things are still terrible, actually.

Ryan C. Scott (who, unless life gets in the way, should be returning as a guest to discuss his and Ethan Mendelson’s favorite franchise) offers a “Tales from the Box Office” noting the 50th anniversary of Jaws. Spoiler, it was kind of a big deal.

Josh Spiegel has a new podcast, Mousterpiece Melodies (a sequel to Mousterpiece Cinema), which analyzes the musical numbers from each Disney film. I’d suggest having Allison Mendelson as a guest on the eventual Frozen II episode, but (a film she despises with the fiery passion of a devoted Zack Snyder fan discussing the theatrical cut of Justice League) it’d risk becoming an unbroken three-hour monologue. 

If you like what you hear, please like, share, comment, and subscribe (using a cartoon mallet) with every justified ounce of strength and passion. If you’d like to reach out and offer good cheer, request in-show discussions, or suggest ideas for bonus episodes, please email us at [email protected].

Scott Mendelson - The Outside Scoop and Puck NewsJeremy Fuster - TheWrapLisa Laman - Dallas Observer, Pajiba, Looper, Cultress, Comic Book and AutostraddleRyan C. Scott - SlashFilm and FangoriaJosh C. Spiegel - SlashFilm, PrimeTimer, Crooked Marquee and LateNighter

Due to a false alarm about potentially malfunctioning Wi-Fi, we ended up with two special guests for the price of one. Kirsten Acuna, having recently begun a new gig as a staff editor at People Magazine, dropped by to discuss the second of three high-profile live-action remakes for 2025. And since we weren’t sure if Jeremy Fuster would be able to make it, Aaron Neuwirth made his third appearance since early March, seemingly trying to stake his claim as the Steve Martin of The Box Office Podcast. 

The topics for this episode aren’t exactly surprising. However, we discussed why How to Train Your Dragon performed so well, particularly considering the actual box office results of the 2010-2019 animated trilogy, and whether other DreamWorks titles can justify such a “real-world” makeover. We noted the relatively strong domestic debut for A24’s Materialists, while Jeremy’s passionate displeasure with the misleading marketing, as reflected in the comparatively mixed audience scores, sparked a back-and-forth over the values and vices of selling a less mainstream genre flick as a comparative crowdpleaser. 

Ballerina is that most frustrating of things for we box office pundits, as it’s a relative disappointment even though it’s not remotely an all-around commercial disaster. Should it have opened closer to $35 million than $25 million? Maybe, but $25 million is not half bad for a film starring a “known but not butts-in-seats draw” actress in what was her first theatrical headliner, which was heavily marketed using another actor and character who appears in little more than an extended cameo. And yeah, with Saw XI in purgatory and Michael pushed to 2026, Ballerina retroactively became Lionsgate’s closest thing in 2025 to a conventional tentpole. 

While all parties discuss what went well—not quite “wrong,” but less “right” than hoped—Decoding Everything’s David Chen argues that the Ana de Armas-led film is exceptional on its own merits and might leg out. However, noting that he liked the picture quite a bit, he agrees that Lionsgate undersold the movie itself in favor of emphasizing the “John Wick” of it all.

Lisa discusses the irony of John Wick transitioning from a scrappy, against-the-grain action movie to becoming one of the leading mainstream representations of contemporary action franchises. Jeremy argues that the series lost its scrappy underdog status as early as John Wick: Chapter 2. Scott notes that the current appeal of the series, in terms of razzle-dazzle and production value, means that an Atomic Blonde (or John Wick)-level budget was off the table. 

Beyond that, there is discourse concerning Wes Anderson’s The Phoenician Scheme and why The Life of Chuck opened so poorly (relatively) on its platform launch. Oh, and all parties agree that saying the title of GKids’ newest anime, Dan da Dan: Evil Eye, spoken out loud sounds like the opening riff to Ram Jam’s “Black Betty.”

In terms of the written word…

Scott Mendelson discussed how, while well-made and filled with spectacle and high production value elements, How to Train Your Dragon played like a feature-length version of a stereotypical “How to Train Your Dragon… On Ice!” stage show.

Jeremy Fuster noted how the ongoing protests (and the president’s disingenuous attempts to turn those protests into a pretext for martial law) will impact productions otherwise intending to film in and around recognizable parts of Los Angeles.

Lisa Laman compares Amazon MGM Studios’ more conventional “theaters and then streaming” release strategy for The Accountant 2 to Netflix’s comparative “theaters can go to hell” attitude and how it may well be leaving money on the table.

Ryan Scott’s latest “Tales from the Box Office” details the 30th anniversary of Congo.David Chen discussed the passing of actor Gene Hackman and how it related to our society and culture’s treatment of the elderly.

If you like what you hear, like, share, comment, and smash (using a cartoon mallet) that subscribe button with every justified ounce of strength and passion. If you want to bother us and offer good cheer, request in-show discussions, or offer ideas for bonus episodes, ping us at [email protected].

Scott Mendelson - The Outside Scoop and Puck NewsJeremy Fuster - TheWrapLisa Laman - Dallas Observer, Pajiba, Looper, Cultress, Comic Book and AutostraddleRyan C. Scott - SlashFilm and FangoriaDavid Chen - Decoding Everything