Many enthusiasts don't realize that the Alfa Romeo 164 and Saab 9000 share their underpinnings — with the Lancia Thema and Fiat Croma. They all ride on the Fiat Tipo Quattro (Type 4) platform, and in this episode, we discuss the their history and drive the three most powerful, quickest, and fastest FWD sport sedans of their era.

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This is a history less about their initial development, to the plethora of engine options, posh and/or aerospace-inspired interiors, styling, power, handling dynamics, and the pros and cons of platform sharing. 

We kick things off with the platform’s predecessors: the Tipo Zero, Tipo Uno, Tipo Dua, and Tipo Tre – go figure – all of which underpinned a variety of Fiats. Meanwhile, Saab had effectively been building cars on the same platform since the 40s before finally making something new for the Saab 99 during the late 60s, and then the 900 in late 70s (which was really just a revised 99). But when it was time for a shift upmarket in the late 80s, Saab needed financial help to create the 9000 after a merger deal with Volvo fell through. At the time, Lancia was in need of a full-size family sedan and jumped into the mix as well via an existing relationship with Saab (see the Saab Lancia 600).

There’s a brief sidebar about weird cars of the time. Select picks include the Citroen DX and GS, as well as the AMC Eagle and Concord. Plus oddball platform sharing in the form of the Dodge Monaco, Renault 25, and Chrysler 300M. Merkur enters the chat, as does Cizeta and the equally prodigious V6 Chevy Cavalier Z24, 4-cylinder Cadillac Cimarron, and, of course, the forever elegant Lumina Euro. 

What’s that? You’d like to know how many V6s were on sale in Europe in the late 80s? One. Or two. Somewhere between 1 and 3-ish. We think. Pretty sure.

In any case, the hottest of the hot Tipo Quattro cars are QUICK. The Saab 9000 Aero being the quickest FWD car of the time, but the Thema 8.32 and Alfa 164Q4 were close behind. As were the Dodge Omni GLHS and the Ford Taurus SHO – the original fast blob.

In This Episode:

The Alfa Romeo 164 Quadrifoglio Verde (230 hp)

The Saab 9000 Aero (225 hp)

The Lancia Thema 8.32 (215 hp)

There’s much talk of Busso V6s, Ferrari V8s (cross- and extra jiggly flat-plane) and their sound profiles. We’ll also cover the delightful smell of rich Italian leather, and our most favorite Pininfarina pen strokes.

Then we’ll blitz through a bunch of badge-engineered bungles like the VW Routan, Acura SLX, Mazda2 and Honda’s new Prologue. When done poorly, platform sharing can kill entire brands, but sometimes we’re left with a small crop of lust-worthy enthusiast cars, and for that we are thankful!

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It's time to be honest with each other and the world: Derek and Jason take turns roasting (or just honestly reviewing) the other's cars in their collections. Plus, they roast their own stuff.

We’ll cover the good and the bad of nearly all of the boys’ various vehicles: 

Derek’s bikes – the Ducati Panigale V4S and Husqvarna 701 Supermoto. 

Jason’s E30s – the 325i wagon and beater sedan track car. 

The mid-engine Italian exotics – Derek's Lamborghini Miura and Jason's 1975 Ferrari 308 GT4.

Then, Jason's mid-engine micro machine 1991 Honda Beat. Naturally, a plethora of Mercedes products will be in the mix – the R129 500SL, W201 190E 2.3-16, W124 E320 wagon and W202 C43. The atypical oddballs: the Rover SD1 and Citroen CX. 

Plus Jason’s new-to-him V12 E31 BMW 850 CSi and Derek’s favorite back-road weapon 964-chassis Porsche 911. And we’ll round things out with Jason’s babies – the VW Scirocco and Mk1 Cabriolet. 

You’ll learn about the Rover SD1’s sketchy, outdated front suspension design, and the 190E’s oversized steering wheel and underbolstered seats. The corpulent hamster styling of the e-Golf and terrible brake balancing on the Beat. The 964 sounds like flatulence, and the VW Cabriolet sounds like imminent disintegration. Recaro-equipped, art deco, cheap, and Zebra-print interiors. Sloppy shifters, burning odors, affordable V12 Ferraris and BMWs, and the Mk1 VWs’ good vibrations versus the E30 M3’s shit ones. 

Join us for some Nikki Glaser-inspired antics, Carmudgeon-style!

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Land Cruiser is one of Toyota’s – and, arguably, the world’s – most haloed marques. In this episode, Jason and Derek discuss its origins and history from its jeep origins, to its enormous family tree, all the way up to the brand new 250-series models, the 2024 Toyota Land Cruiser and Lexus GX550.

Jason and the Hagerty crew traveled to the rugged, mountainous outskirts of Salt Lake City (and the nearby Land Cruiser Heritage Museum) to film an ICONS episode on the illustrious off-roading Toyota. And in this episode, the carmudgeons dive into the origins of the Japanese jeep and its Attila-grade family tree of subsequent series: the 20-series Land Cruiser and then the, 40, 55, 60, 70, 80, 100, 200, 250, and 300, just to name a few! 

The FJs, BJs, the Iron Pig, heavy duties, station wagons, Prados, the Lexus-badged models like the LX600 and GX550 (Motor 1’s SUV of the year!). We’ll even cover the Land Cruiser’s competition along the way: the Jeep Wrangler, Compass, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and Wagoneer; the Land Rover Defender, Range Rover, Velar, Discovery and Evoque; even the Ford Bronco and International Scout. 

In addition to the WWII Willys Jeep 4x4, we’ll cover the origin of the “J” in BJ and FJ – an abbreviation for jeep, which itself many believe is a pseudo-acronym for GP or “general purpose,” but a fact-check says otherwise. Even the Land Cruiser name itself was a tweaked version of the Land Rover moniker to make Rando-kurūzā in Japan.  

Jason also reviews both of the new 250-series Prado trucks: the 2024 Toyota Land Cruiser and 2024 Lexus GX550. We'll talk powertrain, styling, cargo and passenger capacity, comfort, handling, NVH, luxury, and more. 

Now let’s get to it!

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Jason and Derek drive and discuss the legendary Lancia Stratos – its origins, its parts-bin interior, and its unhinged handling.

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On today’s episode, things start off by looking at commenters' nominations for elegant mid-engine cars. Most are promptly rejected, but a handful give the Carmudgeons pause: the De Tomaso P72, McLaren Speedtail, Jaguar XJ220, Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale, and Ferrari 296. And two previously overlooked but notably elegant exceptions are: the Ferrari 246 Dino and the first-generation Toyota Previa. 

Afterwards, it’s all things Stratos – starting with Jason’s and Derek’s driving impressions. They discuss the handling characteristics of this mind-bendingly miniature, Ferrari-engined, rally missile. Thanks to its short, upward-swept overhangs and relatively massive suspension travel, it can traverse rough terrain with ease (including massive potholes and steep driveways), setting it apart from your average sports car experience. But, like a fighter jet, it sacrifices stability in favor of maximum maneuverability. 

They also cover its diminutive size (the Stratos is 2 feet shorter than a Mk8 VW Golf!) and its parts-bin interior – including the trunk release it shares with the Lamborghini Countach and Ferrari 308 GT4, exterior door handle from the Fiat X1/9, and interior door pull from the Miura (among others). Not to mention its paper-thin fiberglass “firewall,” and very unique hinged side windows. 

Later on, discussions move to the origins of the car. From the philandering nature of mid-century Italian design houses like Pininfarina and Bertone, which seemed to take turns designing Italy’s newest models at the time. Things like the Fiat Dino Coupe and Spider, and the Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint and Sprint Speciale (not to mention the wild Stratos Zero concept by Marcello Gandini that became the wedge-shaped Stratos) – plus the dubious last-second rally homologation of the Stratos. 

Lancia’s little wedge would go on to race all across the world; from the Acropolis Rally in Greece, to the East African Safari Rally in Kenya, to the Press-on-Regardless Rally in Michigan. The Stratos, which replaced Lancia’s too-fragile Fulvia, would prove itself plenty rugged and become a wildly successful rally car (but a total sales flop). Lancia's parent company, Fiat, wanted it out in favor of its new 131, but the Stratos' WRC wins continued thanks to privateers all the way up until the 1980s, when it was finally replaced by the 037.

The Stratos Stradale, a car you could buy 50 years ago for the price of a mildly-luxurious contemporary GT like the Alfa Romeo Montreal – now goes for several hundreds of thousands of dollars. Probably one of the highest dollar-per-sq/ft ratios in the automotive world – start saving!

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Jason and Derek discuss the origins of one of Lamborghini’s most iconic models: the Diablo. And what makes this 1 of 83 GT edition so special.  

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Prior to recording this episode, Jason’s Diablo-experience was limited to a blue VT he drove as part of a V12 Lamborghini story back in 2012 that included a 1972 Miura SV, 1988 Countach 5000 QV, Murciélago, Aventador, and LM002. Luckily for Jason (and all of us,) Derek – who also recently drove a Diablo Roadster – brought along this spectacular orange Diablo GT (one of just 83 ever built), which both he and Jason took for a spin. Their impressions followed after a brief history lesson courtesy of Derek. 

The history lesson will include the origin of Lamborghini itself at the hands of multiple different owners: Ferruccio Lamborghini, Jean-Claude and Patrick Mimran, and Chrysler, which took over just as the Diablo concept was nearly production ready. Luckily for everyone, legendary designer at Bertone, Marcello Gandini, didn’t throw his hands up and walk off the job, and we got the Diablo (and the non-Chrysler-tainted early designs went on to become the Cizeta-Moroder V16T).

But it was the 90s, and we demanded more! So the motorsport-focused Diablo GT was born. Featuring widened front fenders, a carbon-fiber rear diffuser, carbon-fiber bucket seats, oil cooler w/ heat extractor hood vent, and a roof scoop to direct cold air into the massive carbon-fiber intake plenum feeding independent throttle bodies – and much, much more!

Like all Diablos, the interior is a little kit-car spec. A flat bezel with holes carved into it for individual gauges comprises the main “cluster.” The suspension is ultra-stiff, but handles exceptionally well on smooth tarmac. And the car can effortlessly break traction at both near-idle RPMs and at near-triple-digit speeds. Rear visibility is non-existent (there is effectively no rear window), but boy are you visible to everyone else on the road. 

Before we wrap things up, we talk crankshafts and who made the first modern flat-plane crank for a production V-8. Perhaps it’s the Urraco and not the Ferrari 308? Ford’s contemporary flat-plane crank Voodoo V-8 from the Shelby GT350 is known to shake itself to pieces. Is that par for the course? Chevy’s C8 Z06 Corvette seems to be doing just fine. As are the AMG GT Blacks Series and Aston Martin Valhalla, but does anyone care? 

Cars like the new Revuelto and Temerario are more common than ever these days. And the number of people who stand a chance of someday affording them seems to be dwindling. Do you care about these million-dollar super cars? Or would you rather see more $35,000 challenges with cars like the Mini Cooper S, Hyundai Elantra N, Ford Mustang Ecoboost, Mazda3 Turbo, VW GTI, Subaru WRX, and Toyota GR86 in 2025?

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Jason and Derek review their top 10 best (and worst) experiences behind the wheel in 2024. Everything from ulta-rare Porsches, to open-air Lamborghinis, manual-swapped Mercedes (and Ferraris), supercars, hypercars, rally icons, and more!

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Christmas comes early for us this year (but not quite in time for this episode) in the form of 6 brand new sets of dutch rubber courtesy of our sponsor, Vredestein Tires! 

The Curmudgeon's then continue with a discussion about each Carmudgeon’s Grandmother’s vehicular preferences, which included the likes of the Ford Pinto, AMC Pacer, ‘87 Chevy Cavalier, Saturn SL1, ‘99 Nissan Sentra, Dodge Aries K-car, Dodge Duster 340, and Buick Wildcat. 

Then we briefly revel in some sweet, sweet vindication after Car and Driver named the Tesla Model 3 to their 10 Best list, but rejected the G20 BMW 3-Series (as it had the F30 before it) and specifically the G80 M3. The Cadillac CT4 and CT5 Blackwing both made this list, alongside a handful of perennial stalwarts like the Honda Civic, Honda Accord, and GR86/BRZ twins.

Afterwards, we recount hanging with Jay Leno while filming 3 separate episodes of Jay Leno’s Garage featuring Jason’s Mk2 VW Scirocco 16V, E30 BMW 325i Touring, and E31 850 CSi. 

And finally, it’s time to talk best drives of the year! The boys loved three Ferraris: the 296 GTB, 360 Challenge Stradale (manual-swapped), and F50. Plus one car from Enzo’s nemesis: the Lamborghini Diablo VT Roadster. 

Then, Jason and Derek include wwo Porsches: the 992.1-chassis 911 S/T and 964 Carrera RS 3.8. Both the Bugatti EB110 GT and Veyron made the list, as did another Piëch-era favorite: the VW XL1. 

Speaking of VWs, the 1964 Beetle and new ID.Buzz both made the cut as well. What would a Carmudgeon episode be without a smattering of Mercedes products? The W209 CLK63 Black Series (manual-converted), W201 190E 2.5-16, C126 560SEC, and a W124 300E with a Mosselman twin-turbo kit and Zender body! 

Two EVs even made the list: the incredible Lucid Air Sapphire and spunky Hyundai Ioniq 5 N. Plus some exquisite lightweights: the Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint 1300, Lotus Exige V6 Cup, and Lancia Stratos.

The worst drives of the year? That honor goes to the disappointing Pagani Zonda and 4-cylinder W206 Mercedes-AMG C63.

We end wondering how to rack up miles behind the wheel of our favorite vintage cars safely. One thing we can all agree we need? More time off!  

Happy Holidays!

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We quickly review the fastest cars you can buy for less than $35,000: the 2024 Ford Mustang EcoBoost High-Performance Pack, 2024 Subaru Impreza WRX tS 6MT, 2025 Mazda3 Turbo AWD, 2024 Volkswagen Golf GTI 380 S manual, 2025 Hyundai Elantra N 6MT, 2025 Mini Cooper S and 2024 Toyota GR86 Trueno 6MT (and Subaru BRZ twin). Plus 3 of the quickest – and most expensive – new GT cars on sale today: the 2025 McLaren GTS, 2024 Mercedes-AMG GT63, and 2025 Bentley Continental GT Speed.

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On this episode of the Carmudgeon Show, Jason vows to go on an all-expenses-paid trip to Lake Tahoe on Hagerty’s dime to properly evaluate the van, Jynah’s, grip in the snow (now that it’s wearing a set of Vredestein Wintrac Pro tires).

Then the boys dive into Gran Turismo – no, not the classic Playstation racing simulators – but rather attaining and maintaining high speeds over extended durations. More specifically, the “Old Man GT” episode of Cammisa’s Ultimate Drag Race Replay, which features some of the quickest, most expensive, and impractical 4-wheeled jewelry money can buy: the McLaren GTS, Mercedes-AMG GT63, and Bentley Continental GT Speed. 

While discussing the new AMG GT63 (which no longer rides on underpinnings from the Dodge Viper lineage like its predecessors, the gullwing-door SLS AMG and the previous AMG GT, but now shares its platform and drivetrain with the SL line), Derek shares a nugget from his vintage Mercedes literature which shows SL buyers in the 1990s had significantly more money to spend than S-Class-buying plebes. And Jason theorizes that SEC owners likely had even more still. 

Speaking of the Mercedes, Jason laments that the new SL63’s posterior profile looks suspiciously Porsche 911-y, but the duplicative flattery appears to date all the way back to the Porsche 356 and the contemporary Mercedes-Benz W198 300 SL Gullwing.  

In other news, Motor Trend Video is dead, and Jason is deeply empathetic. 

After the mourning, we delve into the next drag race episode: cars under $35,000! This episode pits the latest crop of cheap speed against one another in bracketed races with nearly every drivetrain orientation: naturally aspirated, turbocharged, front-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive, all-wheel drive, manual, automatic, DCT, and so on. Unabashed boosted 4-cylinder noises assault the senses and appease the Abarth gods.

Our first race pits the front-wheel drive cars against one another: the Hyundai Elantra N races the Mk8 Volkswagen GTI and the new F66 Mini Cooper S – which is completely overlooked by enthusiasts in 2024 (and is too cutesy for its own good), yet somehow manages to be effortlessly quick and best the OG hot hatch GTI. 

Then, the second race includes the rear- and all-wheel drive cars: the rwd Ford Mustang EcoBoost races the rwd Toyota GR86, the awd Subaru WRX and the surprisingly quick Mazda 3 Turbo AWD. 

And all Jason wants for Christmas is a GR86/FR-S/BRZ hatchback with a K24. 

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A double episode: First, our experts weigh in on Jaguar's new marketing stunt and concept. And second, Jason drives a prototype Lucid Gravity, the all-new SUV.

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This was a big week for Jaguar, with a controversial ad that got lots of attention, and a wild concept that previews its new 4-door electric GT. Jason feels it's important to remember that the ad served one purpose: to get attention on an automaker we called Dead Brand Walking. And it very much worked.

Jason's Van, Jynah, survived a 1500-mile round-trip to Salt Lake City, joining the mile-high club several times along the way. Thankfully, Vredestein Tires shipped a brand new set of Wintrac Pro winter tires just in time for alpine blizzards, because the Van, Jynah, had to make it across a mountain chain in the snow. Including climbing the famed Donner Pass — with chains.

Afterwards, Jason gets behind the wheel of Lucid’s latest creation – and second ever model – the new 2025 Lucid Gravity SUV. The boys discuss its unrelenting commitment to efficiency across the board: from its range, to interior and cargo space, and even mounting fuse blocks inside of chassis bracing on the Air sedan. 

Jason admits to taking an engineering mule for a brief spin and recounts its handling dynamics. Later, while smooshing his face onto a pane of glass at Lucid HQ, Jason spoke with CEO, Peter Rawlinson. Peter personally engineered the ingenious rear hatch seal, and also showed off the new frunk seat with fold-out mud guard. 

Then the boys lament the post-fact and internet-troll era which we, unfortunately, continue to live in. Derek defends his honor and encyclopedic knowledge from a viewer who claims the Mercedes CLK DTM had the first AMG engine – not the CLK63 Black Series. Too bad the viewer is incorrect (the CLK DTM used a derivative of the regular production M113; the Black Series used AMG's own M156. And Jason fights off M fans who argue they can “code out” the G80 M3’s faults. 

Afterwards, they discuss the state of automotive marketing. First by reminiscing about automotive ads from 20 years ago with staying power, and then by debating whether or not Jaguar’s latest rebranding and ad campaign was a success. Does Jaguar's last-ditch effort to save the marque stand a chance at actually swaying consumers?

Or is it still a Dead Brand Walking?

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The legendary, 500-hp Mercedes CLK63 AMG Black Series was never produced with a manual transmission. So, Derek had one built.

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Derek Tam-Scott's company, OTS & Co., purchased a C209-chassis 2008 Mercedes CLK63 AMG Black Series for science/tax reasons and immediately sent it to Matt Kwiek of @kwiekclassics for a new Mercedes-sourced manual transmission swap.

How does the legendary AMG M156 6.3-liter V-8 (which is actually 6.2 liters) work with a 6-speed manual?

For science, Derek hired SCCA Hall of Fame race car driver Randy Pobst to set a lap time in both a stock, automatic CLK63 BS and a 6-speed swapped one.

The Black Series is one of Jason Cammisa's favorite cars of all time. He attended its launch at Willow Springs raceway, where he struggled to keep up with an 80-year-old Denise McLuggage as she executed flawless and effortless laps in the exact same car. It's a fun story.

The ‘mudgeons then briefly cover all the Black Series models: the R171 SLK55, C209 CLK63, R230 SL65, W204 C63, and SLS AMG. 

Is the CLK Black Series peak AMG?

Derek compares the 6-speed swapped CLK to the fifth-gen Pontiac GTO and E39 BMW M5 Dinan S2.

And the Carmudgeons discuss whether other collectible cars should also be manual-swapped, including the Lexus LFA, Alfa Romeo 4C and 8C, and the E60 M5. 

The boys also ponder if tearing out the OE tranny on the Black Series is a crime akin to that of the Sacrilege Motors 964 911 EV conversion. 

Which wasn't, actually, a crime.

We end with a brief discussion of twin-engine cars: a half-Leaf half-motorcycle, a Twini (dual-engine Mini Cooper), DuRocco (twin-engine Scirocco), a pre-war Alfa, and a Citroen 2CV Safari. 

Plus, the van, Jynah, prepares for potentially slippery, wet and white conditions with a brand new set of Vredestein Wintrac Pros!

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Can the new Tesla Model 3 Performance dethrone the G80 BMW M3 as the sports sedan king?

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On this episode of the Carmudgeon Podcast, the boys discuss proper AIM sign-off acronyms, size queens, and Jason’s 3/4” toe-in on his E31 BMW 850 CSI (and its broken shifter). Then, Jason shares tales from Radwood SoCal, including the winners of his “I’d Drive That Home” award — a Ford Escort Cosworth — and the Vredestein Tire award winner — a Z31 Nissan 300ZX with some mismatched and massively dry rotted 20-year-old tires. 

Afterwards, we dive into Jason’s recent Ultimate Comparison Test between the 2024 Tesla Model 3 “Highland” Performance and 2024 G80 LCI BMW M3 Competition xDrive. We’ll cover everything from driving dynamics to powertrain, overheating brakes, interior ball rests, infotainment, price and more!

TTFN

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