The Circuit of Success Podcast with Brett Gilliland

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The Circuit of Success Podcast with Brett Gilliland episodes

December 11, 2023 Ed Hightower: From South Side Struggles to International Referee | A Success Story
?️ Dive into the extraordinary life of Ed Hightower on this heart-pounding episode of Circuit of Success Podcast! ? From humble beginnings in the South to the global stage as a former NCAA basketball referee, Ed shares his riveting journey with host Brett Gilliland. ? Uncover the secrets to Ed’s success as he emphasizes the crucial role of a solid value system and guardrails in staying focused and on track. Get the inside scoop on facing legendary coaches like Bobby Knight and Judd Heathcote, and the invaluable lessons learned by doing the right thing, even when it’s unpopular. Hear firsthand about his experiences representing the United States in international tournaments and the art of staying objective in high-stakes moments. ? Ed’s motivational insights extend beyond the court, urging young people to do the right thing when no one is watching and take ownership of mistakes. Don’t miss out on the incredible anecdotes, including Ed’s unforgettable night at the Final Four dinner in 1989, seated next to none other than the legendary Andy Kaufman! Join us for an inspiring conversation with a true game-changer. Ed Hightower’s story is a beacon of hard work, dedication, and resilience—packed with timeless lessons applicable to everyone. #EdHightower #NCAAReferee #CircuitOfSuccess
Full Youtube Episode
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Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host
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Brett Gilliland. And today, I’ve got Ed Hightower
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with me. Ed, how you doing? Oh, the
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pleasure is all mine, Brett. It’s good to
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be with you. It’s good to be with
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you. So,
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well, people that don’t know. You probably, everybody’s
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watching this knows who are. I mean, you’ve
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had a heck of a career. Well, I’ve
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been very fortunate. I’ve had a lot of
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support along the way, and,
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very, very blessed. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. So former
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superintendent at Edwardsville Hightower school, nineteen years in
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Edwardsville, but forty years in education.
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Forty years in education. In,
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nineteen years, a superintendent update at Whisfield School
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District. I went there in nineteen ninety Gilliland
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retired.
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In two thousand fifteen. So Amazing. In, thirty
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six years, is an NCAA referee? Thirty six
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years as an NC Yagate referee, thirty three
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years in the Big 10:12
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final fours, the World Games. Man,
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representative of the United States at the World
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Games in Bonazaris,
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a representative of the United States at the
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Good World Games in, Saint Petersburg so I
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was very, very fortunate. That’s incredible. Incredible. I
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remember you in my, fighting a Lineite days
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when I was, you know, younger man and
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and watch to my my flying line item,
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which we I wanna talk about that later
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if that’s alright. So but if you can,
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Ed, give us a little lay of the
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lay in the story. You don’t just wake
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up and spend forty years and get your
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doctorate and, you know, have an amazing marriage
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of forty nine years, two daughters, NCAA AA,
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all the stuff that we just mentioned. But
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what’s what’s some of that backstory? Some of
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your stories? Well, back story, you know, I’m
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just one of these,
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young individuals,
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very fortunate.
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I grew up in the south.
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My mom and and,
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dad, divorced when I was twelve years old.
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I’m the second of eight Children, I never
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thought that, I would complete,
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even a high school education when I was
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in the south.
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Things were tough. My mom
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moved,
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to Alton, Illinois in nineteen,
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sixty six.
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And,
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she always made education a priority,
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education church, given back to the community a
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priority.
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For all eight of us,
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siblings.
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Yeah. And, we were very fortunate. And from
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that point,
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played basketball,
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baseball at Alton High School,
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nineteen seventy. I graduated and went to s
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I u e on a basketball scholarship plate
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for the cougars. I know that. And started
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refereeing intramural basketballs with these poor kids,
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didn’t have any money, but, start refereeing intramural
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basketball,
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in nineteen seventy one for a dollar and
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twenty five cents a game. Think about that
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one for a moment. Man.
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And,
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I’d watch,
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you know, I I had no,
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relationship with officials when I when I played.
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But,
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you know, when you can,
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referee,
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the various fraternities,
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in college
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and some of those guys who think that
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they were the best players ever, and some
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of those guys who never could play. Yeah.
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You you get a a mix and a
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variance of,
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my term is better than your fraternity.
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There you go.
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And so I graduated,
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in nineteen seventy four, I started teaching. My
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wife and I were married, and then I
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got a raise for refereeing.
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I start, refereeing,
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open city league recreation
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basketball, and, I got a raise from a
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dollar twenty five cents a game to, five
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dollars a game.
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Oh. So I was in I was in
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seven heaven.
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Five times more money. You got it in.
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I would work three games,
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three games a night,
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three times a week. Shit.
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It had nineteen,
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seventy four. That was pretty good money. You
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know, a good nice supplement. You know? Yeah.
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Absolutely.
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And from that point,
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It just happened,
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at the same time.
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I was back at SAW working on my,
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my master’s
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in education
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to become an administrator.
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I got that. I was very fortunate to
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have had,
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a great mentor,
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in the superintendent.
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Who took me on his wings,
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this young,
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African American kid, and,
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and, I went into administration a very young
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age. Okay. Yeah. And,
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I’ll tell you, Brett of the forty years.
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I spent in,
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education
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thirty seven of those years were actually in
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administration. Oh my goodness. So I had a
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lot I had a lot of opportunities
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to screw it up and make mistakes. Exactly.
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Exactly.
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So what what were your expectations like? So
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you said you grew up in the south,
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didn’t have any money, but yet, I would
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think to do that, your expectations were high.
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Expect taste expectations are extremely high that you
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have to work.
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You had to work. My mom and still,
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work ethic in in all of us Yeah.
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That,
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that there was no compromise. What did she
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do for a living? Oh, gosh. She,
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worked in the fields,
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cotton fields,
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She was a nurse. She went back and
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got, her certificate to be a nurse.
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And, and then, of course, when we moved
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here in sixty six, She worked at Olin,
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industry where money was, plenty for, work was
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plenty for, and she was able to care
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for us, but our value system was simple.
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Work,
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be honest,
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go to church,
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give something back.
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It’s simple. And World needs that. Right? It’s
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so simple. And, I never forgot that. And
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that’s what I believe in today, and that’s
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we brought up our daughters.
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That’s the message that I send clearly
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to young people.
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I’ve sent
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over my years.
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And,
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even now, I’m heavily involved,
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with,
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two
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projects,
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and building forty,
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affordable houses in Alton,
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starting March,
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and I put together a white people to
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revitalize,
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Venice.
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You know, that community,
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low income,
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poverty stricken, driven,
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no grocery store, no healthcare facilities.
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We were fortunate to get them a new
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elementary school, which, we will break ground there.
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In March,
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about twenty four, twenty six million dollars thanks
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to our legislators.
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We’re working them a grocery store. We’re working
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to get them a healthcare sit, facility.
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And then, we’re gonna put forty homes there.
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We’re working to bring in a rec center
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for the young people there. So again,
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given back to the community,
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The second initiative that, I have going now.
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For the Madison High School, students, we’ve started
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a Sky bullshit fund
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for those high school students,
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whereby we will be able to give
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anywhere from,
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three to five two thousand dollars scholarships,
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each year beginning,
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and,
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twenty four.
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So, you know, again, I’m,
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pretty,
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pretty patient. But but, you know, the the
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the thing, it’s all on my time.
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You know, it’s not like I have to
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punch a clock now. It’s not like I’ve
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got When I was superintendent,
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I had seven thousand six hundred students in
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the Atmos School District,
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and parents,
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very demanding.
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And so I don’t have the parents screaming
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and hollering at me. I missed the kids.
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Same thing with her friend. I don’t have
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folks like you from the whole line eye
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screaming and holler net. That’s a terrible call.
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That was a terrible call. Hightower. You you
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know, you hate Illinois. Right? Oh, you know,
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and then I go to Michigan. You hate
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Michigan? I hate Michigan. You know, I hate,
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you know,
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So, you know, I don’t have that now.
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You know, I just wake up and do
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the kinds of things that,
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that meets
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my value system
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of giving back and, and so on. Then
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during the wintertime, my wife and I, forty
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nine years,
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we,
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I go to Florida and, spend time there.
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So Where can that golf game? I do.
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What’s the handicap? My handicap is a seven.
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My index
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found. My index is, is about an eight,
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seven out at Sunset Country Club. So, yeah,
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so, you know, so Yeah. The the the
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the golf has improved
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since I retired because I was I’m not
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on a I’m not on a phone all
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the time. Yeah. Check this email resolve that
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message and do all that. So, you know,
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here’s the thing I you’ve mentioned a couple
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times is your values organization. Right? So your
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values, I think we think of as an
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organization We had to be values aligned and
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mission aligned. And and what I have found
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through my twenty two, twenty three year career
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is when those things are aligned, good things
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happen. Right? Absolutely. But when they’re not, bad
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things happen. Right? Absolutely.
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Because be and and the reason,
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there are no guardrails.
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When you when your when your value system
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is a line, there are guardrails that
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keeps
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that keep you focused. Yeah. You know, when
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I
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refereed,
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when I represented the United States, I remember
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this
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so vividly.
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My my first trip
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to the world games. That was the first
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time that, I mean, I’m on major,
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international stage.
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Mike Kachevsky was the coach
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of the US team.
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I’m never free.
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What an awesome responsibility
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to represent your country?
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And as you as they prepare you to
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go
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to,
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setting like what my first trip was.
00:10:28.000 –> 00:10:31.000
They tell you, it’s not if
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you’re gonna be proposition.
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It’s when.
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And
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The
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simple answer is, just say no.
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It it walks to double proposition to do
00:10:45.000 –> 00:10:47.000
what? A proposition given money.
00:10:48.000 –> 00:10:48.000
Yeah.
00:10:50.000 –> 00:10:50.000
To
00:10:52.000 –> 00:10:53.000
Make a different call. Make a different different
00:10:53.000 –> 00:10:57.000
call or something like that. So, yeah, those
00:10:57.000 –> 00:10:57.000
all of those,
00:11:00.000 –> 00:11:00.000
tangibles
00:11:00.000 –> 00:11:01.000
are
00:11:01.000 –> 00:11:03.000
there to incentivize
00:11:03.000 –> 00:11:06.000
you to do the wrong things. Right. But
00:11:06.000 –> 00:11:09.000
if your value system is in check,
00:11:10.000 –> 00:11:12.000
you’re gonna do the right things when people
00:11:12.000 –> 00:11:13.000
aren’t around.
00:11:15.000 –> 00:11:17.000
And that’s the key thing I tell young
00:11:17.000 –> 00:11:17.000
people.
00:11:18.000 –> 00:11:20.000
Don’t get caught up with just doing the
00:11:20.000 –> 00:11:21.000
right things
00:11:22.000 –> 00:11:22.000
when,
00:11:23.000 –> 00:11:24.000
or the right thing when
00:11:25.000 –> 00:11:28.000
somebody’s watching you. The big test is can
00:11:28.000 –> 00:11:29.000
you
00:11:29.000 –> 00:11:32.000
do the right thing or the right things
00:11:32.000 –> 00:11:36.000
when people aren’t Yep. And that’s where
00:11:36.000 –> 00:11:40.000
the value system comes into play. The safeguards,
00:11:40.000 –> 00:11:43.000
the safe rails, guardrails are there.
00:11:43.000 –> 00:11:45.000
To keep you
00:11:45.000 –> 00:11:45.000
centered
00:11:46.000 –> 00:11:48.000
and keep you, keep your eye on the
00:11:48.000 –> 00:11:50.000
mark, and so on, and you don’t get
00:11:50.000 –> 00:11:51.000
sidelined.
00:11:51.000 –> 00:11:54.000
Yep. So it’s, my buddy Steve went off
00:11:54.000 –> 00:11:55.000
when we were talking last night. I told
00:11:55.000 –> 00:11:57.000
him that you were coming on, and he’s
00:11:57.000 –> 00:11:59.000
a big basketball guy. And so shout out
00:11:59.000 –> 00:12:01.000
to Steve, but He’s like, how do you
00:12:01.000 –> 00:12:02.000
handle up objectivity?
00:12:03.000 –> 00:12:05.000
Surely there were some coaches or programs or
00:12:05.000 –> 00:12:07.000
players that were harder to you know, you
00:12:07.000 –> 00:12:09.000
know, they were gonna be on you the
00:12:09.000 –> 00:12:10.000
whole time. Right? And and so how did
00:12:10.000 –> 00:12:12.000
you stay objective with that of not trying
00:12:12.000 –> 00:12:14.000
to choose sides or when you go represent
00:12:14.000 –> 00:12:16.000
America to not say, I wanna, you know,
00:12:16.000 –> 00:12:18.000
I want my guys to win. The guardrails.
00:12:18.000 –> 00:12:20.000
Yep. Yeah. Again, the value system,
00:12:21.000 –> 00:12:22.000
honesty, integrity,
00:12:23.000 –> 00:12:26.000
hard work. Yeah. And, that you put those
00:12:26.000 –> 00:12:28.000
all in that, as a potpourri.
00:12:29.000 –> 00:12:31.000
Guess what’s gonna come out? Hence why you
00:12:31.000 –> 00:12:32.000
did twelve,
00:12:32.000 –> 00:12:34.000
final four. You got it. Yeah. And and,
00:12:34.000 –> 00:12:34.000
you know,
00:12:35.000 –> 00:12:38.000
coach Knight and I were very close. Yeah.
00:12:38.000 –> 00:12:39.000
A lot of people don’t know that. We
00:12:39.000 –> 00:12:40.000
talked
00:12:41.000 –> 00:12:43.000
you know, we would bump heads on the
00:12:43.000 –> 00:12:43.000
floor.
00:12:44.000 –> 00:12:45.000
But,
00:12:45.000 –> 00:12:47.000
off the floor, we would talk,
00:12:48.000 –> 00:12:49.000
we talked a lot
00:12:49.000 –> 00:12:51.000
about education, about young people,
00:12:52.000 –> 00:12:54.000
one of the smartest individuals you ever wanna
00:12:54.000 –> 00:12:55.000
be around.
00:12:56.000 –> 00:12:56.000
And,
00:12:58.000 –> 00:12:58.000
guardrails.
00:12:59.000 –> 00:12:59.000
Okay.
00:13:00.000 –> 00:13:02.000
You always know that
00:13:05.000 –> 00:13:06.000
going into that game,
00:13:08.000 –> 00:13:10.000
you have to be
00:13:11.000 –> 00:13:12.000
not subjective,
00:13:13.000 –> 00:13:16.000
but objective. You see it you call it
00:13:17.000 –> 00:13:19.000
and let the chips fall where they may.
00:13:19.000 –> 00:13:22.000
But by the same token you there to
00:13:22.000 –> 00:13:26.000
lend a hand as as to both sides.
00:13:26.000 –> 00:13:27.000
And when I say that,
00:13:28.000 –> 00:13:30.000
I would go to, say, coach Knight, for
00:13:30.000 –> 00:13:32.000
example, and say, Hey.
00:13:33.000 –> 00:13:34.000
Number fifty four,
00:13:35.000 –> 00:13:36.000
He’s got his hands on him.
00:13:37.000 –> 00:13:40.000
Yep. Now I’m telling you to take care
00:13:40.000 –> 00:13:41.000
of it. If you don’t take care of
00:13:41.000 –> 00:13:43.000
it, you’re gonna take care of it. Alright.
00:13:43.000 –> 00:13:46.000
Then you go down to the other end,
00:13:46.000 –> 00:13:47.000
Michigan State,
00:13:48.000 –> 00:13:51.000
at that time, Judd Heathco. Yeah. Are, I’m
00:13:51.000 –> 00:13:53.000
gonna tell you a little story about Lou
00:13:53.000 –> 00:13:55.000
Henson in just a moment, but
00:13:55.000 –> 00:13:57.000
you would do the same thing on the
00:13:57.000 –> 00:14:00.000
Gilliland the coaches know that. And they respect
00:14:00.000 –> 00:14:04.000
you, and they know when that game is
00:14:04.000 –> 00:14:05.000
on the line.
00:14:06.000 –> 00:14:08.000
They can trust you to do the right
00:14:08.000 –> 00:14:11.000
thing. Yeah. It goes back through what I
00:14:11.000 –> 00:14:13.000
said earlier, the right thing.
00:14:14.000 –> 00:14:16.000
Not that you you aren’t gonna make mistakes.
00:14:17.000 –> 00:14:19.000
Not that you you aren’t gonna miss a
00:14:19.000 –> 00:14:19.000
call,
00:14:20.000 –> 00:14:23.000
but they trust you to do the right
00:14:23.000 –> 00:14:23.000
thing.
00:14:24.000 –> 00:14:26.000
Lou Henson played a very,
00:14:27.000 –> 00:14:30.000
important role in Ed Hightower getting to the
00:14:30.000 –> 00:14:31.000
big ten, and I never knew about it
00:14:31.000 –> 00:14:32.000
until
00:14:32.000 –> 00:14:35.000
six years after I was in the big
00:14:35.000 –> 00:14:37.000
ten, after I became a crew chief.
00:14:39.000 –> 00:14:42.000
Lou Henson was in this area, recruiting.
00:14:43.000 –> 00:14:45.000
Saw me referee in a high school basketball
00:14:45.000 –> 00:14:46.000
game.
00:14:48.000 –> 00:14:49.000
Called a big ten,
00:14:50.000 –> 00:14:52.000
Wow. The next day and said, I mean,
00:14:52.000 –> 00:14:52.000
tell you,
00:14:53.000 –> 00:14:55.000
I saw this young African American.
00:14:56.000 –> 00:14:58.000
He is gonna be good.
00:14:59.000 –> 00:15:01.000
You need to get someone down there and
00:15:01.000 –> 00:15:03.000
take a look at this guy and start
00:15:03.000 –> 00:15:07.000
tracking him. He’s gonna be good. And somebody
00:15:07.000 –> 00:15:10.000
is gonna get him. Another league is gonna
00:15:10.000 –> 00:15:13.000
get him, you need to take a look.
00:15:13.000 –> 00:15:15.000
Well, lo and behold,
00:15:15.000 –> 00:15:16.000
I’m twenty
00:15:16.000 –> 00:15:19.000
five years old. I go to my first
00:15:19.000 –> 00:15:21.000
camp at Michigan State, Big Ten Camp.
00:15:24.000 –> 00:15:26.000
Out of a hundred and ten
00:15:26.000 –> 00:15:27.000
campers,
00:15:28.000 –> 00:15:29.000
they only took two
00:15:32.000 –> 00:15:32.000
campers
00:15:33.000 –> 00:15:35.000
and added us to what they used to
00:15:35.000 –> 00:15:38.000
call in the Big Ten, our satellite crew.
00:15:38.000 –> 00:15:40.000
That was the
00:15:40.000 –> 00:15:41.000
officials
00:15:41.000 –> 00:15:44.000
that they would hire at that time at
00:15:44.000 –> 00:15:46.000
a Western Illinois university, which was a division
00:15:46.000 –> 00:15:48.000
two Eastern
00:15:48.000 –> 00:15:49.000
Northern Iowa
00:15:50.000 –> 00:15:53.000
Okay? And they would track your experience.
00:15:53.000 –> 00:15:56.000
You got it. Yeah. And then from that
00:15:56.000 –> 00:15:56.000
point,
00:15:57.000 –> 00:15:59.000
two years later,
00:16:01.000 –> 00:16:03.000
the supervisor of the Big Ten called the
00:16:03.000 –> 00:16:05.000
Missouri Valley and said, look,
00:16:06.000 –> 00:16:08.000
we’ve got this young kid And again, I
00:16:08.000 –> 00:16:10.000
don’t know this at the time. I know,
00:16:10.000 –> 00:16:12.000
as they say, I know nothing.
00:16:12.000 –> 00:16:15.000
He’s getting the Gilliland security. Exactly.
00:16:15.000 –> 00:16:16.000
So,
00:16:17.000 –> 00:16:20.000
I was at, I was selected to do
00:16:20.000 –> 00:16:22.000
the National Jukot Tournament.
00:16:23.000 –> 00:16:25.000
I am now twenty
00:16:25.000 –> 00:16:26.000
seven years old.
00:16:27.000 –> 00:16:30.000
The National Duke Oak tournament in Hutchison, Kansas.
00:16:31.000 –> 00:16:32.000
And,
00:16:32.000 –> 00:16:33.000
Johnny Overbe,
00:16:33.000 –> 00:16:35.000
who was the Missouri Valley,
00:16:36.000 –> 00:16:37.000
supervisor.
00:16:38.000 –> 00:16:40.000
I didn’t know he was at the game.
00:16:40.000 –> 00:16:44.000
He sat and watch me work for three
00:16:44.000 –> 00:16:45.000
days in a row.
00:16:46.000 –> 00:16:46.000
Okay.
00:16:47.000 –> 00:16:47.000
And,
00:16:48.000 –> 00:16:48.000
with that,
00:16:51.000 –> 00:16:54.000
He came in that third night after the
00:16:54.000 –> 00:16:55.000
game and said, I’ve watched you,
00:16:56.000 –> 00:16:57.000
three days.
00:16:58.000 –> 00:17:00.000
I wanna bring you into the Missouri Valley.
00:17:01.000 –> 00:17:03.000
Brought me into the Missouri Valley.
00:17:04.000 –> 00:17:09.000
You know, I fool some Gilliland,
00:17:10.000 –> 00:17:12.000
I worked there two years in the Missouri
00:17:12.000 –> 00:17:14.000
Gilliland then a big ten,
00:17:15.000 –> 00:17:15.000
set at,
00:17:16.000 –> 00:17:18.000
I We’re gonna bring you and put you
00:17:18.000 –> 00:17:20.000
on a crew. So they put me on
00:17:20.000 –> 00:17:22.000
a crew at twenty nine years old
00:17:22.000 –> 00:17:24.000
on a now you think about this.
00:17:24.000 –> 00:17:25.000
Now,
00:17:26.000 –> 00:17:27.000
That’s young. That young?
00:17:28.000 –> 00:17:31.000
Yeah. That is too young. Okay. That’s Okay.
00:17:31.000 –> 00:17:32.000
T
00:17:32.000 –> 00:17:35.000
o o, too young. Right.
00:17:35.000 –> 00:17:38.000
And, but I was very fortunate.
00:17:40.000 –> 00:17:42.000
I walked in and let me tell you,
00:17:43.000 –> 00:17:44.000
you think you’re ready.
00:17:45.000 –> 00:17:47.000
Well, you find quickly when you walk into
00:17:47.000 –> 00:17:49.000
an Illinois and you’ve got fourteen thousand
00:17:50.000 –> 00:17:54.000
crazies there on crosses on you majorly.
00:17:55.000 –> 00:17:57.000
Or you go to Gilliland,
00:17:57.000 –> 00:17:59.000
and you got sixteen thousand people there, a
00:17:59.000 –> 00:18:02.000
sea of red. Yeah. And at that time,
00:18:02.000 –> 00:18:03.000
you know, coach Hightower was just like a
00:18:03.000 –> 00:18:07.000
giant. He was a giant in the game
00:18:07.000 –> 00:18:08.000
and a big man
00:18:09.000 –> 00:18:11.000
to to boot. I had seen him on
00:18:11.000 –> 00:18:14.000
TV, but I did not know him.
00:18:14.000 –> 00:18:17.000
Okay? Mhmm. So I go out there, but
00:18:17.000 –> 00:18:18.000
I had been told
00:18:18.000 –> 00:18:19.000
by,
00:18:20.000 –> 00:18:20.000
another,
00:18:21.000 –> 00:18:22.000
prominent
00:18:23.000 –> 00:18:25.000
veteran referee. His name was Jim Bane. Oh
00:18:25.000 –> 00:18:27.000
my gosh. That’s so crazy. See, you’re not
00:18:27.000 –> 00:18:29.000
gonna believe this. I thought you’re gonna say
00:18:29.000 –> 00:18:30.000
this. He was my neighbor growing up in
00:18:30.000 –> 00:18:33.000
Matune, Illinois. Are you kidding me? Oh my
00:18:33.000 –> 00:18:36.000
gosh. Well, Jim Baine was my mentor. He’s
00:18:36.000 –> 00:18:38.000
literally one of the things I was gonna
00:18:38.000 –> 00:18:40.000
bring Jim. Jim Bane. Yeah. Jim Bane,
00:18:41.000 –> 00:18:44.000
Matune. You’re Hightower. Banker and all, well, Jim
00:18:44.000 –> 00:18:46.000
and I. Jim and I used to fly.
00:18:46.000 –> 00:18:47.000
So funny. Jim was a pilot.
00:18:48.000 –> 00:18:51.000
At one time. I leased an airplane,
00:18:51.000 –> 00:18:54.000
and had someone flying me around. And we
00:18:54.000 –> 00:18:56.000
would hook up. I’d go to Decatur, pick
00:18:56.000 –> 00:18:58.000
him up, depending on where we’re going. But
00:18:58.000 –> 00:18:59.000
the
00:19:00.000 –> 00:19:00.000
the the
00:19:01.000 –> 00:19:02.000
he
00:19:02.000 –> 00:19:03.000
initiation
00:19:03.000 –> 00:19:04.000
to the big ten,
00:19:05.000 –> 00:19:05.000
Jim
00:19:06.000 –> 00:19:07.000
I talk I would talk to him all
00:19:07.000 –> 00:19:09.000
of the time. And I said, Jim, tell
00:19:09.000 –> 00:19:11.000
me, how do you heal
00:19:12.000 –> 00:19:13.000
a coach knight?
00:19:14.000 –> 00:19:15.000
How do you heal?
00:19:16.000 –> 00:19:17.000
And he says, and he used to call
00:19:17.000 –> 00:19:18.000
me Eddie. Eddie,
00:19:20.000 –> 00:19:21.000
coach Knight,
00:19:22.000 –> 00:19:23.000
he’s gonna test you
00:19:24.000 –> 00:19:26.000
when you first get in a big ten.
00:19:26.000 –> 00:19:27.000
You could take it to the bank.
00:19:28.000 –> 00:19:31.000
Judd Heathcoat is gonna test you
00:19:31.000 –> 00:19:33.000
when you Yeah.
00:19:34.000 –> 00:19:35.000
Get to one of his games.
00:19:36.000 –> 00:19:38.000
He says, not coach knight. It’s gonna say
00:19:38.000 –> 00:19:41.000
something to you. It may be religious.
00:19:42.000 –> 00:19:44.000
It may be political Gilliland
00:19:44.000 –> 00:19:44.000
it.
00:19:45.000 –> 00:19:46.000
He may say something,
00:19:47.000 –> 00:19:48.000
racially.
00:19:48.000 –> 00:19:50.000
Oh my god. Because he wants to see
00:19:50.000 –> 00:19:51.000
how you’re gonna react.
00:19:52.000 –> 00:19:54.000
How thick is the man you have? Don’t
00:19:54.000 –> 00:19:55.000
react.
00:19:55.000 –> 00:19:56.000
And he says,
00:19:57.000 –> 00:20:00.000
all of these coaches in their own way
00:20:00.000 –> 00:20:02.000
will test you and here’s why.
00:20:03.000 –> 00:20:05.000
They’re not concerned
00:20:05.000 –> 00:20:06.000
about you
00:20:06.000 –> 00:20:07.000
at home.
00:20:09.000 –> 00:20:13.000
They’re concerned about you when Indiana goes to
00:20:13.000 –> 00:20:13.000
Purdue.
00:20:14.000 –> 00:20:17.000
And that fifteen thousand people are there
00:20:18.000 –> 00:20:19.000
at Machia Arena.
00:20:20.000 –> 00:20:21.000
Or when he goes to Illinois,
00:20:22.000 –> 00:20:25.000
and they’ve got the fourteen thousand people are
00:20:25.000 –> 00:20:26.000
so there.
00:20:26.000 –> 00:20:29.000
They are They wanna know how you’re gonna
00:20:29.000 –> 00:20:30.000
behave on the road.
00:20:31.000 –> 00:20:34.000
So I get asked this story often. What
00:20:34.000 –> 00:20:36.000
was the first thing coach and I said
00:20:36.000 –> 00:20:36.000
to you?
00:20:37.000 –> 00:20:37.000
So,
00:20:38.000 –> 00:20:39.000
this young cat,
00:20:40.000 –> 00:20:43.000
twenty eight years old, I walk out there
00:20:43.000 –> 00:20:44.000
on the floor.
00:20:45.000 –> 00:20:46.000
We get there. We have to be there
00:20:46.000 –> 00:20:48.000
an hour and a half before game time.
00:20:48.000 –> 00:20:50.000
Nobody’s in the arena.
00:20:51.000 –> 00:20:52.000
Then we have to walk out on the
00:20:52.000 –> 00:20:55.000
floor. Thirty minutes before game time.
00:20:56.000 –> 00:20:58.000
We walk out there thirty minutes before game
00:20:58.000 –> 00:21:00.000
time. There’s just a sea of red, sixteen
00:21:00.000 –> 00:21:03.000
thousand people, sea of red.
00:21:03.000 –> 00:21:05.000
And then coach Hightower
00:21:05.000 –> 00:21:08.000
at that time, he would normally come out
00:21:08.000 –> 00:21:09.000
a minute before the game.
00:21:10.000 –> 00:21:11.000
That was his demo.
00:21:12.000 –> 00:21:12.000
Well,
00:21:13.000 –> 00:21:15.000
He knew that he had this young,
00:21:17.000 –> 00:21:18.000
young official.
00:21:19.000 –> 00:21:21.000
He comes out about two and a half
00:21:21.000 –> 00:21:22.000
minutes before game time.
00:21:23.000 –> 00:21:26.000
The sea the the the the fans, they
00:21:26.000 –> 00:21:27.000
stand
00:21:27.000 –> 00:21:30.000
held to the king, held to the king.
00:21:30.000 –> 00:21:32.000
And so he walks by.
00:21:33.000 –> 00:21:36.000
The three officials. He goes down shakes hands
00:21:37.000 –> 00:21:39.000
with the, shake hand with the,
00:21:39.000 –> 00:21:42.000
opposing coach. Yeah. So he comes back and
00:21:42.000 –> 00:21:44.000
I’m just I I’m so scared.
00:21:44.000 –> 00:21:46.000
I am so scared to Shamkia because he,
00:21:47.000 –> 00:21:49.000
you know, all of the history
00:21:50.000 –> 00:21:53.000
throwing chairs, screaming yelling, you know, but just
00:21:53.000 –> 00:21:55.000
just just his m o, you know, just,
00:21:55.000 –> 00:21:57.000
you know, he was he was a national
00:21:57.000 –> 00:21:58.000
figure.
00:21:59.000 –> 00:22:00.000
So he goes down
00:22:00.000 –> 00:22:04.000
and he gets about six inches. His rear
00:22:04.000 –> 00:22:06.000
end from hitting his seat.
00:22:06.000 –> 00:22:08.000
And he comes back, and he gets right
00:22:08.000 –> 00:22:09.000
in my face.
00:22:10.000 –> 00:22:11.000
And he says,
00:22:12.000 –> 00:22:14.000
I hope you’re not tonight when I get
00:22:14.000 –> 00:22:16.000
on you. Oh.
00:22:16.000 –> 00:22:18.000
It’s gonna be,
00:22:18.000 –> 00:22:21.000
chewing that, and you can fill fill in
00:22:21.000 –> 00:22:22.000
the words.
00:22:22.000 –> 00:22:24.000
That you’ve never
00:22:24.000 –> 00:22:26.000
this is what it gave. And the fans
00:22:26.000 –> 00:22:27.000
are eating it up.
00:22:28.000 –> 00:22:30.000
Yeah. The fans are eating it up.
00:22:30.000 –> 00:22:32.000
This will be a chewing like you’ve never
00:22:32.000 –> 00:22:34.000
had before. Yeah. Welcome
00:22:35.000 –> 00:22:36.000
to the Big Ten.
00:22:37.000 –> 00:22:39.000
Now you think about that for a moment.
00:22:39.000 –> 00:22:41.000
And now, so that was my
00:22:42.000 –> 00:22:42.000
intro
00:22:43.000 –> 00:22:44.000
to coach Knight.
00:22:45.000 –> 00:22:48.000
Well, I in talking with Jim, Jim said
00:22:48.000 –> 00:22:51.000
Listen. The way you hail a coach knight,
00:22:51.000 –> 00:22:53.000
you don’t you you hail him the same
00:22:53.000 –> 00:22:54.000
way I want you to handle every other
00:22:54.000 –> 00:22:55.000
coach.
00:22:56.000 –> 00:22:59.000
You when you get near the coach where
00:22:59.000 –> 00:23:01.000
he’s standing, get out on the floor.
00:23:02.000 –> 00:23:02.000
And then
00:23:03.000 –> 00:23:05.000
when you start to go back down the
00:23:05.000 –> 00:23:07.000
floor, you go. You don’t you don’t linger.
00:23:08.000 –> 00:23:09.000
Doing a time out.
00:23:10.000 –> 00:23:12.000
Get out on the floor. You don’t need
00:23:12.000 –> 00:23:14.000
to and I I get angry now when
00:23:14.000 –> 00:23:16.000
I see these officials standing over their body
00:23:16.000 –> 00:23:17.000
coaches.
00:23:17.000 –> 00:23:20.000
They are not there to be your friend.
00:23:20.000 –> 00:23:22.000
They don’t give you candy.
00:23:23.000 –> 00:23:26.000
And they’re not handing out candy. No. So
00:23:26.000 –> 00:23:27.000
bottom line,
00:23:27.000 –> 00:23:30.000
I always adopt at that. I and that
00:23:30.000 –> 00:23:30.000
was my,
00:23:32.000 –> 00:23:34.000
way of Helen Coaches. Now
00:23:35.000 –> 00:23:36.000
the next game,
00:23:36.000 –> 00:23:39.000
I’ve got conference game. Uh-oh.
00:23:39.000 –> 00:23:40.000
I’ve got
00:23:41.000 –> 00:23:42.000
Judd Heathcote
00:23:43.000 –> 00:23:45.000
at Iowa against
00:23:46.000 –> 00:23:47.000
Lou
00:23:47.000 –> 00:23:47.000
lutosin.
00:23:48.000 –> 00:23:49.000
Yeah. Okay.
00:23:50.000 –> 00:23:53.000
He was there. Apartment? I forgot he was
00:23:53.000 –> 00:23:55.000
there. Yeah. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. They had
00:23:55.000 –> 00:23:56.000
just opened Okay. Carver,
00:23:57.000 –> 00:23:59.000
hawk iron. Yeah. Okay.
00:23:59.000 –> 00:24:00.000
So now
00:24:00.000 –> 00:24:02.000
Think about this for a moment.
00:24:04.000 –> 00:24:05.000
The Iowa fans, they
00:24:07.000 –> 00:24:08.000
are rabbit.
00:24:09.000 –> 00:24:11.000
Because again, and I will think about it.
00:24:11.000 –> 00:24:13.000
There there there are no major league sports.
00:24:13.000 –> 00:24:16.000
It’s it’s just all this is the big
00:24:16.000 –> 00:24:18.000
deal. This is the big leagues as they
00:24:18.000 –> 00:24:18.000
call it.
00:24:19.000 –> 00:24:21.000
Judd Heat heat coat
00:24:22.000 –> 00:24:24.000
didn’t like young officials
00:24:25.000 –> 00:24:28.000
because he could not trust them. And I
00:24:28.000 –> 00:24:29.000
and I and I understand why now as
00:24:29.000 –> 00:24:32.000
I as I got into it, I I
00:24:32.000 –> 00:24:34.000
I quickly learned that. But again,
00:24:35.000 –> 00:24:38.000
same thing. Jim said, Ed,
00:24:38.000 –> 00:24:40.000
he’s gonna say something to you.
00:24:41.000 –> 00:24:44.000
Just let it go. So we go out
00:24:44.000 –> 00:24:44.000
there.
00:24:44.000 –> 00:24:46.000
I’m working with this veteran referee.
00:24:48.000 –> 00:24:50.000
This veteran referee in the first five minutes
00:24:50.000 –> 00:24:53.000
he makes three of the worst calls in
00:24:53.000 –> 00:24:54.000
America.
00:24:56.000 –> 00:24:59.000
Michigan two against Michigan State One against Iowa.
00:24:59.000 –> 00:25:02.000
Neither one of the coaches said a word.
00:25:03.000 –> 00:25:04.000
Neither one of the coaches.
00:25:04.000 –> 00:25:05.000
So now,
00:25:06.000 –> 00:25:08.000
it Hightower when he finally gets enough
00:25:08.000 –> 00:25:09.000
nerve
00:25:10.000 –> 00:25:11.000
to blow his whistle.
00:25:12.000 –> 00:25:14.000
I make my first call after about ten
00:25:14.000 –> 00:25:16.000
minutes. It’s the right call. Yeah.
00:25:17.000 –> 00:25:20.000
Judd Heath Coach, and it’s the correct call.
00:25:20.000 –> 00:25:22.000
Judd Heath Coach.
00:25:24.000 –> 00:25:25.000
Jumped up.
00:25:25.000 –> 00:25:26.000
And
00:25:26.000 –> 00:25:28.000
so I said, I knew it.
00:25:30.000 –> 00:25:32.000
Richard, where did this young kid come from?
00:25:32.000 –> 00:25:34.000
You will never make it. I’m gonna make
00:25:34.000 –> 00:25:36.000
sure you’re fired from the big ten. Oh
00:25:36.000 –> 00:25:39.000
my. You can’t make it. So we get
00:25:39.000 –> 00:25:40.000
through the game. Let me tell you.
00:25:41.000 –> 00:25:43.000
Doing the right thing,
00:25:43.000 –> 00:25:45.000
even when it’s unpopular.
00:25:46.000 –> 00:25:48.000
Michigan State is on the road.
00:25:49.000 –> 00:25:52.000
The last play of the game.
00:25:52.000 –> 00:25:56.000
I’m on national TV, CBS, Billy Packer is
00:25:56.000 –> 00:25:57.000
doing the game.
00:25:57.000 –> 00:25:59.000
There’s an out of bounds play.
00:26:00.000 –> 00:26:03.000
It’s my call. It’s right on the sideline.
00:26:04.000 –> 00:26:05.000
The coach,
00:26:06.000 –> 00:26:08.000
heat code could see it certainly
00:26:09.000 –> 00:26:11.000
Iowa could see it lead house.
00:26:12.000 –> 00:26:13.000
Now, the kid barely,
00:26:14.000 –> 00:26:16.000
barely stepped on the sideline.
00:26:18.000 –> 00:26:20.000
I could have easily said
00:26:21.000 –> 00:26:23.000
I didn’t see that call.
00:26:25.000 –> 00:26:26.000
I could have said that.
00:26:27.000 –> 00:26:29.000
Do the right thing, even when it’s not
00:26:30.000 –> 00:26:31.000
poplar. Yep.
00:26:32.000 –> 00:26:33.000
Boom is a great advice.
00:26:34.000 –> 00:26:35.000
Made the call.
00:26:36.000 –> 00:26:38.000
Iowa lost a game by one.
00:26:39.000 –> 00:26:41.000
John Heathco jumps up,
00:26:42.000 –> 00:26:45.000
great call. Now wait, he’s the same guy.
00:26:45.000 –> 00:26:47.000
The whole game that was saying you’ll never
00:26:47.000 –> 00:26:49.000
make it. You’re thinking part.
00:26:50.000 –> 00:26:50.000
And
00:26:51.000 –> 00:26:52.000
I made the right call
00:26:53.000 –> 00:26:54.000
from that point,
00:26:55.000 –> 00:26:58.000
individual, the coaches in the Big Ten, and
00:26:58.000 –> 00:27:00.000
Across the country began to say, who is
00:27:00.000 –> 00:27:02.000
this young kid? Yeah.
00:27:02.000 –> 00:27:04.000
I referred my first final four at thirty
00:27:04.000 –> 00:27:05.000
four years old.
00:27:06.000 –> 00:27:09.000
I worked seven final fours in a row.
00:27:09.000 –> 00:27:12.000
Holy smokes. In a row. That’s not normal.
00:27:12.000 –> 00:27:14.000
Not normal. You go back. I I think
00:27:14.000 –> 00:27:16.000
that’s the time has been done in the
00:27:16.000 –> 00:27:17.000
history of the game. That’s amazing.
00:27:18.000 –> 00:27:19.000
So it again,
00:27:19.000 –> 00:27:22.000
the story that I tell young people
00:27:22.000 –> 00:27:24.000
do the right thing even when it’s not
00:27:24.000 –> 00:27:24.000
popular.
00:27:26.000 –> 00:27:29.000
Do the right thing when people aren’t watching
00:27:29.000 –> 00:27:30.000
you.
00:27:31.000 –> 00:27:33.000
That’s the value system
00:27:33.000 –> 00:27:34.000
that
00:27:35.000 –> 00:27:38.000
you want to build your life around.
00:27:39.000 –> 00:27:40.000
You can’t please everyone.
00:27:41.000 –> 00:27:42.000
I’ve as superintendent.
00:27:42.000 –> 00:27:43.000
Yeah.
00:27:44.000 –> 00:27:46.000
Okay. I never tried to please.
00:27:47.000 –> 00:27:48.000
My employees,
00:27:50.000 –> 00:27:51.000
every decision that I made,
00:27:52.000 –> 00:27:53.000
I made it
00:27:54.000 –> 00:27:56.000
and the interests of the young people.
00:27:57.000 –> 00:28:00.000
Every decision when I refereed, I made it
00:28:00.000 –> 00:28:01.000
in the best interests
00:28:02.000 –> 00:28:03.000
of those players.
00:28:04.000 –> 00:28:05.000
And I would tell him upfront.
00:28:06.000 –> 00:28:08.000
I’m gonna tell you one time to get
00:28:08.000 –> 00:28:09.000
your shirt tail in.
00:28:10.000 –> 00:28:13.000
You’re not this is my game, you’re not
00:28:13.000 –> 00:28:15.000
gonna be walking around with your shirt tail
00:28:15.000 –> 00:28:16.000
out.
00:28:17.000 –> 00:28:18.000
I’m gonna tell you if I tell you
00:28:18.000 –> 00:28:19.000
to get your hands
00:28:21.000 –> 00:28:24.000
off, I’m trying to help you. Yeah. But
00:28:24.000 –> 00:28:26.000
I’m not gonna keep trust me. I’m not
00:28:26.000 –> 00:28:29.000
gonna keep telling you that. Yeah. And that’s
00:28:29.000 –> 00:28:31.000
the That was the relationship I had with
00:28:31.000 –> 00:28:32.000
coaches.
00:28:33.000 –> 00:28:35.000
I would throw my hand up, and when
00:28:35.000 –> 00:28:37.000
I said, this is it. I would listen.
00:28:37.000 –> 00:28:38.000
I never had rabbit ears.
00:28:39.000 –> 00:28:41.000
I would listen to coaches when they griped
00:28:41.000 –> 00:28:42.000
and complained.
00:28:43.000 –> 00:28:44.000
Because, you know,
00:28:44.000 –> 00:28:46.000
I had the philosophy
00:28:47.000 –> 00:28:48.000
I’m not always right.
00:28:49.000 –> 00:28:51.000
I’m not always right.
00:28:51.000 –> 00:28:52.000
And if I
00:28:53.000 –> 00:28:54.000
don’t react,
00:28:55.000 –> 00:28:57.000
But give that coach an opportunity to disagree
00:28:57.000 –> 00:29:00.000
with me, and he goes and looks at
00:29:00.000 –> 00:29:02.000
the film, he’s gonna come back and say,
00:29:02.000 –> 00:29:03.000
you know what?
00:29:04.000 –> 00:29:06.000
That that guy was Hightower, and, you know,
00:29:07.000 –> 00:29:08.000
he treated me with respect.
00:29:10.000 –> 00:29:10.000
Okay?
00:29:10.000 –> 00:29:13.000
But when I throw my hand up, and
00:29:13.000 –> 00:29:15.000
I’m the guy that started
00:29:15.000 –> 00:29:18.000
that put made this a national mechanic, when
00:29:18.000 –> 00:29:19.000
I do this,
00:29:20.000 –> 00:29:22.000
That’s it. Don’t say another word. This is
00:29:22.000 –> 00:29:23.000
your warning. That’s it.
00:29:24.000 –> 00:29:26.000
And that’s how I’ve lived my life, you
00:29:26.000 –> 00:29:26.000
know.
00:29:27.000 –> 00:29:29.000
I believe in second chance.
00:29:29.000 –> 00:29:31.000
For young people,
00:29:32.000 –> 00:29:34.000
people in general. Yeah. But I’m not gonna
00:29:34.000 –> 00:29:37.000
keep giving you chance after chance. I love
00:29:37.000 –> 00:29:38.000
that. So so what I mean, you made
00:29:38.000 –> 00:29:40.000
a ton of calls. Right? Obviously, in a
00:29:40.000 –> 00:29:43.000
in a thirty six year career, but not
00:29:43.000 –> 00:29:44.000
every one of them was the right call.
00:29:44.000 –> 00:29:45.000
So what did you do when you did
00:29:45.000 –> 00:29:47.000
mess up and missed a call? If I
00:29:47.000 –> 00:29:50.000
missed a call, and I would go in,
00:29:50.000 –> 00:29:52.000
when it was even not poplar, I’d go
00:29:52.000 –> 00:29:54.000
down I’d go and break down every
00:29:55.000 –> 00:29:56.000
every call
00:29:56.000 –> 00:29:58.000
that I So after the game. After the
00:29:58.000 –> 00:30:00.000
game. And do you wanna do a makeup
00:30:00.000 –> 00:30:01.000
call? No. No makeup.
00:30:02.000 –> 00:30:04.000
If I missed a call during the game,
00:30:04.000 –> 00:30:05.000
let me tell you what I would do.
00:30:05.000 –> 00:30:07.000
I would tell the coach coach. That’s on
00:30:07.000 –> 00:30:10.000
me. I missed that call. Yeah.
00:30:10.000 –> 00:30:12.000
I missed it. I would tell a player,
00:30:12.000 –> 00:30:14.000
but I’m not gonna keep It does make
00:30:14.000 –> 00:30:15.000
you feel better, though. I mean, we just
00:30:15.000 –> 00:30:17.000
I coach eighth grade basketball right now, and
00:30:17.000 –> 00:30:19.000
a ref the other night so that he
00:30:19.000 –> 00:30:20.000
goes, hey, Sorry. I missed that. You took
00:30:20.000 –> 00:30:22.000
ownership. And I’m like, you know what? What
00:30:22.000 –> 00:30:23.000
do you say? You know, and that and
00:30:23.000 –> 00:30:25.000
that’s the bottom line. That’s the bottom line.
00:30:25.000 –> 00:30:26.000
You know, don’t
00:30:27.000 –> 00:30:29.000
you you don’t need to alibi. You don’t
00:30:29.000 –> 00:30:30.000
need to make excuses.
00:30:30.000 –> 00:30:32.000
You don’t need to try to justify it.
00:30:32.000 –> 00:30:34.000
I missed a call. Yep. Our coach, and
00:30:34.000 –> 00:30:37.000
I tell young people when I’m working with
00:30:37.000 –> 00:30:37.000
them.
00:30:38.000 –> 00:30:40.000
Just say coach, you may be right.
00:30:40.000 –> 00:30:42.000
Even you know that
00:30:44.000 –> 00:30:45.000
you got it right. Yeah. Just say coach,
00:30:45.000 –> 00:30:46.000
you may be right.
00:30:46.000 –> 00:30:48.000
Because you’re not gonna win that moment when
00:30:48.000 –> 00:30:48.000
the temperature is high. Yeah. You’ve gotta bring
00:30:48.000 –> 00:30:49.000
the
00:30:49.000 –> 00:30:50.000
temp
00:30:56.000 –> 00:30:58.000
down. Coach, you may be right. You may
00:30:58.000 –> 00:31:00.000
be right. I didn’t say you were. That’s
00:31:00.000 –> 00:31:02.000
right. You may be right. Okay.
00:31:03.000 –> 00:31:05.000
Dean Smith was one of my,
00:31:07.000 –> 00:31:08.000
all time favorite coaches.
00:31:09.000 –> 00:31:10.000
I can’t remember we were doing a game
00:31:10.000 –> 00:31:11.000
with him
00:31:11.000 –> 00:31:12.000
And,
00:31:12.000 –> 00:31:13.000
we,
00:31:13.000 –> 00:31:15.000
one of my crew members missed a call
00:31:15.000 –> 00:31:17.000
so bad. I was a late referee, and
00:31:17.000 –> 00:31:19.000
I could I could not get him this
00:31:19.000 –> 00:31:21.000
I could not get
00:31:21.000 –> 00:31:22.000
this official
00:31:22.000 –> 00:31:24.000
to change the call.
00:31:24.000 –> 00:31:26.000
I tried to get him
00:31:27.000 –> 00:31:29.000
I called Dean Smith in stay as a
00:31:29.000 –> 00:31:30.000
coach, I I I have to,
00:31:31.000 –> 00:31:32.000
I I have to be able to live
00:31:32.000 –> 00:31:34.000
with myself. We missed that call.
00:31:34.000 –> 00:31:37.000
That was the respect that I, coach,
00:31:38.000 –> 00:31:39.000
when I received my doctorate,
00:31:40.000 –> 00:31:41.000
there were
00:31:41.000 –> 00:31:42.000
two people
00:31:43.000 –> 00:31:44.000
who reached out to me right away, and
00:31:44.000 –> 00:31:46.000
I don’t know how they found out.
00:31:46.000 –> 00:31:49.000
And congratulating me on my doctorate of education.
00:31:50.000 –> 00:31:51.000
Dean Smith,
00:31:52.000 –> 00:31:53.000
John Thompson. Wow.
00:31:54.000 –> 00:31:56.000
I think about that. Now, and and and
00:31:56.000 –> 00:31:59.000
the bottom line, see, I was not refereeing
00:31:59.000 –> 00:32:00.000
those guys
00:32:01.000 –> 00:32:01.000
consistently
00:32:02.000 –> 00:32:03.000
like what I was in the Big Ten,
00:32:03.000 –> 00:32:05.000
I would only catch those guys,
00:32:06.000 –> 00:32:08.000
in tournament play or when the ACC played
00:32:08.000 –> 00:32:11.000
the Big Ten. Yep. But they they watch.
00:32:12.000 –> 00:32:12.000
They
00:32:13.000 –> 00:32:15.000
they know who the who the good officials
00:32:15.000 –> 00:32:17.000
are. And they know
00:32:17.000 –> 00:32:18.000
every officials
00:32:21.000 –> 00:32:23.000
breaking point. Yeah.
00:32:23.000 –> 00:32:25.000
How how did you stay a student of
00:32:25.000 –> 00:32:27.000
the game in education and basketball? Because you
00:32:27.000 –> 00:32:29.000
really think about it. You’re you’re growing two
00:32:29.000 –> 00:32:32.000
careers parallel at the same time. Right? You’re
00:32:32.000 –> 00:32:33.000
growing two
00:32:34.000 –> 00:32:35.000
careers parallel.
00:32:38.000 –> 00:32:40.000
You you don’t change.
00:32:40.000 –> 00:32:41.000
Okay.
00:32:41.000 –> 00:32:44.000
And how do you raise there’s so many
00:32:44.000 –> 00:32:46.000
things as I talk to various groups I
00:32:46.000 –> 00:32:47.000
get a question
00:32:48.000 –> 00:32:49.000
on a regular basis.
00:32:49.000 –> 00:32:52.000
How are you able to keep all keep
00:32:52.000 –> 00:32:53.000
the three
00:32:54.000 –> 00:32:54.000
entities,
00:32:56.000 –> 00:32:57.000
together,
00:32:57.000 –> 00:32:59.000
and those entities
00:32:59.000 –> 00:33:00.000
of family.
00:33:02.000 –> 00:33:05.000
My professional job as an educator
00:33:06.000 –> 00:33:07.000
and my,
00:33:08.000 –> 00:33:09.000
my referee in.
00:33:11.000 –> 00:33:12.000
You don’t change.
00:33:13.000 –> 00:33:14.000
First of all, family
00:33:15.000 –> 00:33:18.000
is more important than anything else.
00:33:19.000 –> 00:33:21.000
My wife and I’ve been married forty nine
00:33:21.000 –> 00:33:22.000
years. We have two daughters,
00:33:23.000 –> 00:33:24.000
both successful.
00:33:25.000 –> 00:33:27.000
And as I was rear we were rearing
00:33:27.000 –> 00:33:30.000
our kids, both of our kids went to
00:33:30.000 –> 00:33:32.000
my school. We always believe in
00:33:33.000 –> 00:33:34.000
quality over quantity.
00:33:37.000 –> 00:33:38.000
Quality over quantity.
00:33:39.000 –> 00:33:42.000
Quality time over quantity. There are people who
00:33:42.000 –> 00:33:43.000
are together twenty four hours a day and
00:33:43.000 –> 00:33:46.000
can’t stand each other. Hightower
00:33:46.000 –> 00:33:48.000
my daughters knew,
00:33:48.000 –> 00:33:50.000
and even today,
00:33:51.000 –> 00:33:52.000
if they want me at something,
00:33:54.000 –> 00:33:57.000
They, whenever younger, they’d go in, tell my
00:33:57.000 –> 00:33:57.000
secretary,
00:33:58.000 –> 00:34:00.000
which you put this on debts.
00:34:01.000 –> 00:34:02.000
Scheduled.
00:34:03.000 –> 00:34:04.000
If they wrote it on there,
00:34:05.000 –> 00:34:07.000
it was important to them. Yeah. Now, they
00:34:07.000 –> 00:34:09.000
knew that they could go in there and
00:34:09.000 –> 00:34:11.000
write every day, you you know, you want
00:34:11.000 –> 00:34:14.000
me here. Yeah. You know, you gotta share
00:34:14.000 –> 00:34:14.000
me.
00:34:14.000 –> 00:34:17.000
But if they put something on my calendar
00:34:17.000 –> 00:34:19.000
and I had a game, Guess what?
00:34:20.000 –> 00:34:22.000
No. I got off that game. Yeah. It
00:34:22.000 –> 00:34:23.000
was family.
00:34:25.000 –> 00:34:28.000
Now, decision making, I’m in the decision making
00:34:28.000 –> 00:34:31.000
business in education. I’m in a decision making
00:34:31.000 –> 00:34:32.000
business,
00:34:33.000 –> 00:34:35.000
in referring. Yeah. By the
00:34:36.000 –> 00:34:39.000
Every second, you’re making a decision on someone’s
00:34:39.000 –> 00:34:40.000
livelihood.
00:34:41.000 –> 00:34:42.000
In education,
00:34:44.000 –> 00:34:44.000
It’s about
00:34:45.000 –> 00:34:45.000
educating
00:34:46.000 –> 00:34:48.000
kids for the next,
00:34:49.000 –> 00:34:51.000
step of their, next step in their life.
00:34:52.000 –> 00:34:53.000
Referin?
00:34:54.000 –> 00:34:56.000
I’m working with kids, and I’m making decisions
00:34:56.000 –> 00:34:57.000
about their careers.
00:34:58.000 –> 00:34:59.000
I can put them on the bench with
00:34:59.000 –> 00:35:02.000
a chief foul or a bad cough. Yep.
00:35:02.000 –> 00:35:03.000
And at the wrong time,
00:35:04.000 –> 00:35:05.000
and they’re penalized.
00:35:06.000 –> 00:35:08.000
So you have to always be cognizant
00:35:09.000 –> 00:35:10.000
of that
00:35:11.000 –> 00:35:13.000
and and keep that in the forefront.
00:35:14.000 –> 00:35:16.000
Before every game,
00:35:16.000 –> 00:35:17.000
every game,
00:35:18.000 –> 00:35:21.000
I walk I would go into the restroom
00:35:21.000 –> 00:35:23.000
by myself for a moment, and I would
00:35:23.000 –> 00:35:25.000
say a little prayer. Lord, please.
00:35:26.000 –> 00:35:27.000
Give me the
00:35:27.000 –> 00:35:29.000
wisdom, the knowledge,
00:35:30.000 –> 00:35:31.000
to not
00:35:31.000 –> 00:35:32.000
injure
00:35:33.000 –> 00:35:33.000
or hurt
00:35:34.000 –> 00:35:36.000
someone tonight. Yep.
00:35:37.000 –> 00:35:38.000
And that’s the same thing
00:35:39.000 –> 00:35:41.000
as I went to my office. Give me
00:35:41.000 –> 00:35:42.000
the wisdom knowledge.
00:35:43.000 –> 00:35:44.000
You can’t get too
00:35:46.000 –> 00:35:46.000
big,
00:35:47.000 –> 00:35:49.000
as we like to call it,
00:35:49.000 –> 00:35:51.000
see yourself as too important.
00:35:52.000 –> 00:35:55.000
For what this business is about. You’re in
00:35:55.000 –> 00:35:56.000
the people business.
00:35:56.000 –> 00:36:00.000
You’re in a helping business, your assistance business.
00:36:00.000 –> 00:36:01.000
Now, does that mean
00:36:01.000 –> 00:36:04.000
that you and allow somebody to do what
00:36:04.000 –> 00:36:06.000
the heck they want. And as I I
00:36:06.000 –> 00:36:09.000
I I I told, an individual wants,
00:36:09.000 –> 00:36:12.000
I was a young Gilliland
00:36:12.000 –> 00:36:14.000
everybody knew, no, knew that I was very
00:36:14.000 –> 00:36:16.000
religious, a religion.
00:36:16.000 –> 00:36:17.000
Yeah. And always,
00:36:18.000 –> 00:36:18.000
a
00:36:19.000 –> 00:36:20.000
priority with my family.
00:36:21.000 –> 00:36:23.000
So this guy comes in, and he is
00:36:23.000 –> 00:36:24.000
just being a first class jerk. I’m a
00:36:24.000 –> 00:36:25.000
principal.
00:36:26.000 –> 00:36:28.000
And he knew I was a first class
00:36:29.000 –> 00:36:30.000
jerk.
00:36:30.000 –> 00:36:31.000
And I said to him, I said, sir,
00:36:31.000 –> 00:36:34.000
I said, let’s let’s let’s get an understanding
00:36:34.000 –> 00:36:34.000
here.
00:36:36.000 –> 00:36:38.000
I said, ob he said, you
00:36:38.000 –> 00:36:41.000
you’re you’re religious in all of this. And
00:36:41.000 –> 00:36:43.000
I said, let’s get an understanding here.
00:36:44.000 –> 00:36:45.000
Don’t.
00:36:46.000 –> 00:36:47.000
Take
00:36:48.000 –> 00:36:48.000
my
00:36:50.000 –> 00:36:51.000
religious belief,
00:36:52.000 –> 00:36:52.000
are
00:36:53.000 –> 00:36:53.000
my kindness,
00:36:54.000 –> 00:36:55.000
as a form of weakness.
00:36:56.000 –> 00:36:58.000
If you make that statement again,
00:36:59.000 –> 00:37:00.000
you’re gonna find out
00:37:00.000 –> 00:37:02.000
just who I am.
00:37:02.000 –> 00:37:04.000
So, again, that’s extreme.
00:37:05.000 –> 00:37:06.000
Right. Right. Tell him how to know where
00:37:06.000 –> 00:37:08.000
you stand. You you’re gonna have to. Yeah.
00:37:08.000 –> 00:37:09.000
Don’t take
00:37:09.000 –> 00:37:10.000
this goodness
00:37:11.000 –> 00:37:13.000
as a form of weakness. I love that.
00:37:13.000 –> 00:37:14.000
And the same thing when I when I
00:37:14.000 –> 00:37:17.000
work with coaches. Yep. Coaches. I’m gonna listen
00:37:17.000 –> 00:37:18.000
to you for a moment.
00:37:18.000 –> 00:37:20.000
But you when I do when I give
00:37:20.000 –> 00:37:21.000
you that stop sign,
00:37:22.000 –> 00:37:25.000
that’s it. Don’t I’ve reached my limit.
00:37:26.000 –> 00:37:28.000
Don’t say another word. If you say another
00:37:28.000 –> 00:37:31.000
word, there’s something else coming. I love it.
00:37:31.000 –> 00:37:33.000
So let’s talk about the flying lineup. Let
00:37:33.000 –> 00:37:35.000
me tell you a quick story. So my
00:37:35.000 –> 00:37:37.000
grew up matt too, as I said. My,
00:37:38.000 –> 00:37:40.000
mom’s cousin was, I think, next door neighbors
00:37:40.000 –> 00:37:42.000
to Lou Henson. So so we got to
00:37:42.000 –> 00:37:42.000
know,
00:37:43.000 –> 00:37:45.000
them. And I was lucky enough in nineteen
00:37:45.000 –> 00:37:47.000
eighty nine. They had their final four dinner.
00:37:47.000 –> 00:37:49.000
I got invited. My mom and dad and
00:37:49.000 –> 00:37:52.000
I. Eighty nine were were in Seattle? Yes.
00:37:52.000 –> 00:37:53.000
Uh-huh. I was there. Yeah.
00:37:53.000 –> 00:37:55.000
So, I get to go to the the
00:37:55.000 –> 00:37:57.000
dinner back in Champagne, and, I sit next
00:37:57.000 –> 00:37:59.000
to Andy Kaufman. Oh, yes. And Randy called
00:37:59.000 –> 00:38:01.000
you. Thirty four, I believe. Number thirty and
00:38:01.000 –> 00:38:03.000
I got to try his,
00:38:03.000 –> 00:38:05.000
final four ring on. And it was really
00:38:05.000 –> 00:38:06.000
it was a great night. You know, I
00:38:06.000 –> 00:38:09.000
met, you know, Ken Gilliland Gail and Nick
00:38:09.000 –> 00:38:09.000
Anderson.
00:38:10.000 –> 00:38:12.000
Stephen Barto and Keno Gil both been on
00:38:12.000 –> 00:38:14.000
this podcast, which has been awesome. Good good
00:38:14.000 –> 00:38:15.000
people. I know both of them very well.
00:38:15.000 –> 00:38:18.000
But talk about the Flat Atlanta because a
00:38:18.000 –> 00:38:20.000
lot of people from Illinois listen to this.
00:38:20.000 –> 00:38:21.000
Our our Missouri friends will just have to
00:38:21.000 –> 00:38:22.000
they’ll just have to listen to it. Sure.
00:38:22.000 –> 00:38:24.000
Hightower? The flying Alana nineteen eighty nine, talk
00:38:24.000 –> 00:38:26.000
about that team and over your career. How
00:38:26.000 –> 00:38:27.000
did
00:38:27.000 –> 00:38:29.000
they rank? Would you like about him? Would
00:38:29.000 –> 00:38:31.000
you like about Liz? Let’s talk about,
00:38:31.000 –> 00:38:33.000
what was the greatest shot?
00:38:34.000 –> 00:38:37.000
Mhmm. What what what shot was that? Well,
00:38:37.000 –> 00:38:39.000
my greatest shot was the turnaround shot at
00:38:39.000 –> 00:38:41.000
the Indiana game that Nick Anderson from Half
00:38:41.000 –> 00:38:43.000
Court turns around throws it up. Who do
00:38:43.000 –> 00:38:44.000
you think was the lead referee on that
00:38:44.000 –> 00:38:46.000
game? That You got it right here. You
00:38:46.000 –> 00:38:47.000
had Hyde Hightower.
00:38:47.000 –> 00:38:49.000
And, let me tell you a little story
00:38:49.000 –> 00:38:51.000
about that game. That that play.
00:38:52.000 –> 00:38:55.000
That play. You remember Indiana went down and
00:38:55.000 –> 00:38:55.000
scored.
00:38:56.000 –> 00:38:56.000
Okay?
00:38:57.000 –> 00:38:58.000
They scored.
00:39:00.000 –> 00:39:01.000
And coach,
00:39:02.000 –> 00:39:05.000
Henson called the time out right away. Mhmm.
00:39:05.000 –> 00:39:06.000
Coach Knight,
00:39:07.000 –> 00:39:10.000
wanted all he wanted to know was how
00:39:10.000 –> 00:39:11.000
much time I was gonna put back on
00:39:11.000 –> 00:39:13.000
the clock because there was no way in
00:39:13.000 –> 00:39:15.000
the world on the baseline Yeah. Even though
00:39:15.000 –> 00:39:17.000
the kid could run. He could run. Yep.
00:39:18.000 –> 00:39:20.000
There’s no way in the world.
00:39:22.000 –> 00:39:22.000
I thought,
00:39:23.000 –> 00:39:25.000
coach and I, or anyone else thought that
00:39:25.000 –> 00:39:27.000
that ball, first of all, was gonna get
00:39:27.000 –> 00:39:30.000
across half court, and they were gonna be
00:39:30.000 –> 00:39:31.000
able to get it up and score.
00:39:32.000 –> 00:39:34.000
I was the lead referee
00:39:34.000 –> 00:39:36.000
I put the ball in playing.
00:39:36.000 –> 00:39:39.000
I saw it all. It witnessed it all.
00:39:39.000 –> 00:39:41.000
And then, of course, I went to,
00:39:42.000 –> 00:39:44.000
to the final four with them that year,
00:39:44.000 –> 00:39:45.000
in Seattle.
00:39:46.000 –> 00:39:47.000
And,
00:39:47.000 –> 00:39:50.000
oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And, Michigan was there.
00:39:52.000 –> 00:39:53.000
Miskum was there,
00:39:55.000 –> 00:39:57.000
Seaton Gilliland
00:39:57.000 –> 00:39:58.000
Duke. Yeah.
00:39:59.000 –> 00:40:01.000
You see, That’s Hightower, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh,
00:40:01.000 –> 00:40:03.000
yeah. Oh, yeah. And so,
00:40:04.000 –> 00:40:04.000
I didn’t
00:40:05.000 –> 00:40:06.000
they didn’t assign
00:40:06.000 –> 00:40:08.000
me to the Illinois
00:40:09.000 –> 00:40:09.000
semifinal.
00:40:10.000 –> 00:40:10.000
Because
00:40:11.000 –> 00:40:14.000
I was from Illinois and again, all of
00:40:14.000 –> 00:40:16.000
that. You know, back then, they were very
00:40:17.000 –> 00:40:18.000
conscious and cognizant of
00:40:19.000 –> 00:40:21.000
those kinds of situation.
00:40:21.000 –> 00:40:23.000
But, you know, again,
00:40:23.000 –> 00:40:26.000
you know, a couple calls here that, coach
00:40:26.000 –> 00:40:29.000
Henson might be the one of the biggest
00:40:29.000 –> 00:40:31.000
jumps of my night when Nick Anderson made
00:40:31.000 –> 00:40:33.000
me chat. Oh my god. It’s unbelievable. So
00:40:33.000 –> 00:40:35.000
talk about Lou Hanson, the Lou Dew.
00:40:35.000 –> 00:40:37.000
Cohenson was,
00:40:38.000 –> 00:40:39.000
a great person.
00:40:39.000 –> 00:40:40.000
Yeah. Number one.
00:40:41.000 –> 00:40:42.000
He was a great humanitarian
00:40:43.000 –> 00:40:44.000
Number two,
00:40:45.000 –> 00:40:47.000
he was one of the most underrated couches
00:40:48.000 –> 00:40:49.000
in the game.
00:40:50.000 –> 00:40:51.000
Underrated.
00:40:51.000 –> 00:40:53.000
I I I just thought and and by
00:40:53.000 –> 00:40:54.000
the way, I I knew
00:40:55.000 –> 00:40:57.000
all of the coaches back then knew them
00:40:57.000 –> 00:40:58.000
all now. Yeah. Okay.
00:40:59.000 –> 00:40:59.000
Cohenson,
00:41:01.000 –> 00:41:04.000
not only was a great person, but he
00:41:04.000 –> 00:41:06.000
was a great tactician.
00:41:07.000 –> 00:41:08.000
The kids had to play
00:41:09.000 –> 00:41:10.000
defense, or they didn’t stay in the game.
00:41:10.000 –> 00:41:11.000
Now at times,
00:41:12.000 –> 00:41:13.000
you know, we would get you you guys
00:41:13.000 –> 00:41:15.000
would get upset that he would pull a
00:41:15.000 –> 00:41:16.000
guy so quickly.
00:41:16.000 –> 00:41:18.000
If you didn’t play defense,
00:41:19.000 –> 00:41:21.000
you were coming out of the game? Yep.
00:41:21.000 –> 00:41:22.000
Okay.
00:41:22.000 –> 00:41:24.000
And that’s just a bottom line. Now maybe
00:41:24.000 –> 00:41:26.000
that happened a little too often, you know,
00:41:26.000 –> 00:41:28.000
if you want to criticize.
00:41:28.000 –> 00:41:29.000
But,
00:41:30.000 –> 00:41:32.000
I I have the greatest respect
00:41:33.000 –> 00:41:34.000
for
00:41:34.000 –> 00:41:35.000
Coach Henson
00:41:35.000 –> 00:41:38.000
and what he stood for. And I did
00:41:38.000 –> 00:41:39.000
a podcast
00:41:39.000 –> 00:41:43.000
on Coach Henson, when he passed away. And,
00:41:43.000 –> 00:41:46.000
the respect that I have for that man,
00:41:47.000 –> 00:41:49.000
and what he brought to the great game.
00:41:49.000 –> 00:41:51.000
And as a human
00:41:51.000 –> 00:41:51.000
being,
00:41:52.000 –> 00:41:55.000
and his willingness to help others.
00:41:56.000 –> 00:41:58.000
And and I just think that he did
00:41:58.000 –> 00:42:00.000
not get the credit. No.
00:42:02.000 –> 00:42:05.000
Did they lose some games? Yes. They lost
00:42:05.000 –> 00:42:07.000
some close games. But when you look at
00:42:07.000 –> 00:42:08.000
his body of work,
00:42:09.000 –> 00:42:10.000
you won’t find anyone
00:42:10.000 –> 00:42:11.000
that put
00:42:13.000 –> 00:42:14.000
as comprehensive
00:42:14.000 –> 00:42:16.000
and complete body of work together
00:42:17.000 –> 00:42:18.000
as coach Hansen.
00:42:19.000 –> 00:42:20.000
Yep. Look at his overall.
00:42:22.000 –> 00:42:23.000
You know, when he was at what,
00:42:24.000 –> 00:42:24.000
centenary.
00:42:25.000 –> 00:42:25.000
Yep.
00:42:25.000 –> 00:42:27.000
A lot of people don’t know.
00:42:28.000 –> 00:42:30.000
He wouldn’t take that job list. The,
00:42:31.000 –> 00:42:33.000
integrated his coach at staff.
00:42:33.000 –> 00:42:34.000
You know,
00:42:35.000 –> 00:42:36.000
that’s the type of humanitarian
00:42:37.000 –> 00:42:39.000
Looking at first people. Look at look at
00:42:39.000 –> 00:42:41.000
no. Looking at society
00:42:41.000 –> 00:42:43.000
and what it meant. Yeah.
00:42:43.000 –> 00:42:43.000
Okay.
00:42:44.000 –> 00:42:44.000
So,
00:42:46.000 –> 00:42:47.000
just a great humanitarian
00:42:48.000 –> 00:42:49.000
Great. Humanitarian.
00:42:50.000 –> 00:42:51.000
So did you see were you around with
00:42:51.000 –> 00:42:52.000
the, FAD five?
00:42:54.000 –> 00:42:56.000
What was the greatest situation with the FAD
00:42:56.000 –> 00:42:58.000
five? Don’t tell me you’re doing that game.
00:42:58.000 –> 00:43:00.000
Was that nineteen ninety two the time out?
00:43:00.000 –> 00:43:02.000
What was what was the greatest what was
00:43:02.000 –> 00:43:04.000
the when you talk about the FAPFI, what
00:43:04.000 –> 00:43:07.000
what What are they known for the one
00:43:07.000 –> 00:43:10.000
single moment in time? Well, the time out.
00:43:10.000 –> 00:43:11.000
I was the lead referee
00:43:12.000 –> 00:43:15.000
on that game with the FAP five in
00:43:15.000 –> 00:43:16.000
New Orleans. Did you make that call? I
00:43:16.000 –> 00:43:19.000
was the lead referee and made the call.
00:43:19.000 –> 00:43:20.000
I had told,
00:43:21.000 –> 00:43:22.000
I was mad at you that night. Why
00:43:22.000 –> 00:43:24.000
is that? I was a Michigan fan at
00:43:24.000 –> 00:43:26.000
that point. I liked the FED five. Well,
00:43:26.000 –> 00:43:27.000
I did too. Let me tell you. Let
00:43:27.000 –> 00:43:29.000
me tell you about the FED five very
00:43:29.000 –> 00:43:29.000
quick. Thing.
00:43:31.000 –> 00:43:31.000
When
00:43:32.000 –> 00:43:34.000
the fab five came on the scene,
00:43:37.000 –> 00:43:37.000
They
00:43:38.000 –> 00:43:39.000
changed the culture
00:43:42.000 –> 00:43:44.000
of sports. Yeah. And
00:43:44.000 –> 00:43:45.000
society forever.
00:43:46.000 –> 00:43:47.000
Yeah.
00:43:47.000 –> 00:43:48.000
And
00:43:48.000 –> 00:43:49.000
that group,
00:43:49.000 –> 00:43:52.000
whatever you wanna say about them, we weren’t
00:43:52.000 –> 00:43:54.000
ready for
00:43:55.000 –> 00:43:56.000
they’re antics. Yeah. You know, with the lone
00:43:56.000 –> 00:43:57.000
parents,
00:43:57.000 –> 00:43:57.000
the,
00:43:59.000 –> 00:44:00.000
the different colored socks.
00:44:01.000 –> 00:44:01.000
Yeah. And,
00:44:02.000 –> 00:44:03.000
and their swagger
00:44:04.000 –> 00:44:07.000
and, their trash talk. Yeah. We
00:44:07.000 –> 00:44:09.000
you know, we weren’t ready for that.
00:44:10.000 –> 00:44:12.000
The commissioner of the Big Ten,
00:44:13.000 –> 00:44:15.000
Sent to me, you’re gonna live with that
00:44:15.000 –> 00:44:17.000
group, and there were three referees,
00:44:18.000 –> 00:44:20.000
and we were all educators We work more.
00:44:20.000 –> 00:44:21.000
He’s in your babies.
00:44:22.000 –> 00:44:24.000
You’re gonna live with them, and you’re gonna
00:44:25.000 –> 00:44:27.000
you’re you’re gonna keep them in check.
00:44:27.000 –> 00:44:28.000
And and,
00:44:30.000 –> 00:44:31.000
Jalen Rose,
00:44:31.000 –> 00:44:33.000
you know, he’s one of the smartest young
00:44:33.000 –> 00:44:35.000
people who you and
00:44:36.000 –> 00:44:37.000
he has a sense of humor.
00:44:38.000 –> 00:44:41.000
He would talk trash out there and one
00:44:41.000 –> 00:44:41.000
night,
00:44:42.000 –> 00:44:44.000
and just just a great individual,
00:44:45.000 –> 00:44:45.000
really.
00:44:46.000 –> 00:44:47.000
And so Jaylen
00:44:48.000 –> 00:44:50.000
He would do a dunk on you and
00:44:50.000 –> 00:44:52.000
get in your face and all of that.
00:44:52.000 –> 00:44:52.000
So,
00:44:53.000 –> 00:44:55.000
I’m working him
00:44:55.000 –> 00:44:56.000
at Northwestern
00:44:57.000 –> 00:44:58.000
And so I,
00:44:59.000 –> 00:45:01.000
I I got so upset with him. I
00:45:01.000 –> 00:45:03.000
grabbed him by the arm, and I took
00:45:03.000 –> 00:45:05.000
him over to Steve. Fisher, Fisher was some
00:45:05.000 –> 00:45:05.000
sin Australia,
00:45:06.000 –> 00:45:07.000
the Centrilla area.
00:45:08.000 –> 00:45:10.000
And so I said coach.
00:45:11.000 –> 00:45:12.000
I said, no,
00:45:12.000 –> 00:45:14.000
I am not gonna have Jaylen.
00:45:15.000 –> 00:45:17.000
I’m I would not call this right. I’m
00:45:17.000 –> 00:45:19.000
not gonna have number thirty four, whatever his
00:45:19.000 –> 00:45:20.000
number was. Yeah. Embarrass
00:45:21.000 –> 00:45:23.000
a player like what he did. He does
00:45:23.000 –> 00:45:24.000
that again.
00:45:25.000 –> 00:45:27.000
I’m gonna throw him out of the game.
00:45:27.000 –> 00:45:29.000
It’s not gonna be just a technical file.
00:45:29.000 –> 00:45:33.000
This is his official warning. Not only Jalen.
00:45:34.000 –> 00:45:35.000
After the game.
00:45:36.000 –> 00:45:36.000
Jalen,
00:45:37.000 –> 00:45:39.000
the, he was doing the interview. Well,
00:45:40.000 –> 00:45:41.000
I noticed that you and,
00:45:42.000 –> 00:45:43.000
referee hightower
00:45:44.000 –> 00:45:47.000
were were having a discussion tonight. What what
00:45:47.000 –> 00:45:48.000
was that all about?
00:45:49.000 –> 00:45:50.000
Only Jaylen.
00:45:50.000 –> 00:45:51.000
Well, you know how
00:45:52.000 –> 00:45:54.000
a principal Hightower is. He thought he was
00:45:54.000 –> 00:45:55.000
back in school,
00:45:55.000 –> 00:45:57.000
and he threatened me with the detention.
00:45:59.000 –> 00:46:01.000
That’s that’s Jaylen.
00:46:01.000 –> 00:46:02.000
And and,
00:46:04.000 –> 00:46:05.000
you know, the coach
00:46:06.000 –> 00:46:08.000
Joan Howard. Yeah. He was my go to
00:46:08.000 –> 00:46:10.000
guy back then, you know,
00:46:11.000 –> 00:46:14.000
I if we had an issue with with
00:46:14.000 –> 00:46:16.000
the rest of the group, which you know,
00:46:16.000 –> 00:46:18.000
there were good times. He no. No. No.
00:46:18.000 –> 00:46:19.000
No. No. No. No. No. No. He was
00:46:19.000 –> 00:46:21.000
to he was to oh, no. Not at
00:46:21.000 –> 00:46:24.000
all. We’d go to to Joanne and say,
00:46:25.000 –> 00:46:27.000
whatever his number was. In twenty five? You
00:46:27.000 –> 00:46:29.000
gotta you gotta take care of this. And
00:46:29.000 –> 00:46:30.000
he would. I mean, he
00:46:31.000 –> 00:46:33.000
you could tell that he was a leader.
00:46:34.000 –> 00:46:35.000
Yeah. He was a leader
00:46:36.000 –> 00:46:38.000
all the way back then.
00:46:39.000 –> 00:46:40.000
And so
00:46:40.000 –> 00:46:42.000
it doesn’t surprise any of us that,
00:46:43.000 –> 00:46:45.000
you know, I know he’s had he had
00:46:45.000 –> 00:46:47.000
some hard time last year and all, but
00:46:47.000 –> 00:46:48.000
that’s okay.
00:46:48.000 –> 00:46:50.000
He’s still a leader. We make mistakes,
00:46:51.000 –> 00:46:53.000
but, he is just a, a wonderful young
00:46:53.000 –> 00:46:55.000
person. So talk about the traits he saw
00:46:55.000 –> 00:46:57.000
and and some of the greatest players that,
00:46:57.000 –> 00:46:59.000
you know, obviously went through college, put in
00:46:59.000 –> 00:47:01.000
the NBA, you saw them all.
00:47:01.000 –> 00:47:03.000
Talk about those trades, but a that to
00:47:03.000 –> 00:47:05.000
the person. Listen this podcast right now. That’s
00:47:05.000 –> 00:47:07.000
in the business world or the education world,
00:47:07.000 –> 00:47:09.000
the medical world, whatever it may be. What
00:47:09.000 –> 00:47:11.000
did you see there that can be applied
00:47:11.000 –> 00:47:12.000
to the to the office.
00:47:12.000 –> 00:47:13.000
Personal Verintz.
00:47:14.000 –> 00:47:16.000
James. Gold setting.
00:47:17.000 –> 00:47:20.000
When it when it when when at the
00:47:20.000 –> 00:47:20.000
toughest
00:47:21.000 –> 00:47:21.000
moment.
00:47:22.000 –> 00:47:24.000
That’s when those individuals
00:47:25.000 –> 00:47:27.000
really showed and demonstrated.
00:47:30.000 –> 00:47:31.000
There’s true
00:47:31.000 –> 00:47:32.000
value system.
00:47:33.000 –> 00:47:36.000
And when I talk about value system, that
00:47:36.000 –> 00:47:36.000
toughness,
00:47:37.000 –> 00:47:40.000
that Gilliland that willingness to
00:47:40.000 –> 00:47:41.000
give a little extra.
00:47:43.000 –> 00:47:46.000
That willingness in and I use this with
00:47:46.000 –> 00:47:47.000
young Gilliland
00:47:47.000 –> 00:47:49.000
getting a little old now. The guy’s name
00:47:49.000 –> 00:47:52.000
was Hersha Hawkins from Bradley. Yeah. He’s one
00:47:52.000 –> 00:47:54.000
of my all time favorite players.
00:47:56.000 –> 00:47:58.000
I asked him once. He was a great
00:47:58.000 –> 00:48:01.000
player. Remember? Yep. He was the eighty eight,
00:48:01.000 –> 00:48:03.000
player of the year over Danny Manage, and
00:48:03.000 –> 00:48:06.000
my first final four with with Kansas. Yeah.
00:48:06.000 –> 00:48:08.000
Well, Danny ended up being the player of
00:48:08.000 –> 00:48:09.000
the year,
00:48:10.000 –> 00:48:11.000
and I never get into who should be
00:48:11.000 –> 00:48:13.000
the player of the new, but Hersha Hawkins
00:48:13.000 –> 00:48:14.000
really should have player of the year that
00:48:14.000 –> 00:48:15.000
year.
00:48:15.000 –> 00:48:17.000
But Hersha Hawkins was one of my all
00:48:17.000 –> 00:48:18.000
time favorites.
00:48:18.000 –> 00:48:20.000
He was one he was one of the
00:48:20.000 –> 00:48:22.000
great jump shooters, as you know.
00:48:22.000 –> 00:48:23.000
So
00:48:25.000 –> 00:48:26.000
we would have to go to be at
00:48:26.000 –> 00:48:27.000
the game
00:48:28.000 –> 00:48:30.000
an hour and a half before game time.
00:48:30.000 –> 00:48:31.000
Okay.
00:48:32.000 –> 00:48:35.000
Hershel Hawkins, if he had missed the game
00:48:35.000 –> 00:48:36.000
before.
00:48:38.000 –> 00:48:40.000
Wherever he missed the shot from,
00:48:41.000 –> 00:48:42.000
That next game,
00:48:43.000 –> 00:48:45.000
at hour and a half before game time,
00:48:46.000 –> 00:48:49.000
the lights aren’t even on yet. He’s out
00:48:49.000 –> 00:48:51.000
there practicing that shot Wow. That he missed.
00:48:52.000 –> 00:48:55.000
And I asked him when I I said,
00:48:55.000 –> 00:48:57.000
I said, I called him Hawk. I said,
00:48:57.000 –> 00:49:00.000
Hawk. I said, man, you you’re a great
00:49:00.000 –> 00:49:00.000
player.
00:49:03.000 –> 00:49:04.000
Why are you
00:49:05.000 –> 00:49:05.000
practicing?
00:49:08.000 –> 00:49:10.000
At an hour and a half before game
00:49:10.000 –> 00:49:11.000
time.
00:49:12.000 –> 00:49:15.000
And you’re coming off, and you’re you’re acting
00:49:15.000 –> 00:49:16.000
as if,
00:49:16.000 –> 00:49:17.000
here’s a screen.
00:49:18.000 –> 00:49:20.000
Here’s the jump shot.
00:49:20.000 –> 00:49:22.000
Why do you do that?
00:49:22.000 –> 00:49:23.000
He says because
00:49:25.000 –> 00:49:27.000
that shot is gonna come up again.
00:49:29.000 –> 00:49:30.000
Now, you take that
00:49:31.000 –> 00:49:32.000
in life.
00:49:32.000 –> 00:49:34.000
You learn from experiences.
00:49:35.000 –> 00:49:38.000
It’s gonna come up again. Yeah. And if
00:49:38.000 –> 00:49:39.000
you’ve rehearsed
00:49:39.000 –> 00:49:39.000
it,
00:49:40.000 –> 00:49:42.000
then you know how to react.
00:49:43.000 –> 00:49:45.000
I used to get in front of a
00:49:45.000 –> 00:49:45.000
mirror
00:49:47.000 –> 00:49:48.000
at home
00:49:48.000 –> 00:49:51.000
and rehearse my mechanics. People used to say,
00:49:51.000 –> 00:49:53.000
boy, hi, Tara. Boy, look at his mechanics.
00:49:54.000 –> 00:49:56.000
That was not by accident.
00:49:57.000 –> 00:50:00.000
You have to everything has to be in
00:50:00.000 –> 00:50:00.000
sync.
00:50:01.000 –> 00:50:03.000
And here’s the thing. When you get into
00:50:03.000 –> 00:50:05.000
that situation,
00:50:05.000 –> 00:50:07.000
you got fifty thousand
00:50:08.000 –> 00:50:09.000
people in the arena
00:50:10.000 –> 00:50:11.000
at a final four.
00:50:12.000 –> 00:50:14.000
You got millions watching.
00:50:14.000 –> 00:50:16.000
You can’t think about it.
00:50:17.000 –> 00:50:18.000
You got to
00:50:19.000 –> 00:50:19.000
react.
00:50:21.000 –> 00:50:22.000
You’re not
00:50:23.000 –> 00:50:26.000
over. You got to react to the situation
00:50:27.000 –> 00:50:27.000
at the moment.
00:50:28.000 –> 00:50:30.000
And that’s life. Mhmm.
00:50:31.000 –> 00:50:32.000
That’s life.
00:50:33.000 –> 00:50:34.000
Solid.
00:50:34.000 –> 00:50:36.000
Man, tons of takeaways.
00:50:37.000 –> 00:50:38.000
Last few questions. So you’re
00:50:39.000 –> 00:50:40.000
I talk about this all the time on
00:50:40.000 –> 00:50:42.000
these podcasts is fears.
00:50:43.000 –> 00:50:45.000
The fears we put in our mind, how
00:50:45.000 –> 00:50:46.000
many of the fears have actually blown up
00:50:46.000 –> 00:50:48.000
to the magnitude you put them in your
00:50:48.000 –> 00:50:49.000
mind to be? Well,
00:50:50.000 –> 00:50:52.000
you know, as a young
00:50:53.000 –> 00:50:53.000
person,
00:50:55.000 –> 00:50:56.000
when I was in
00:50:57.000 –> 00:50:58.000
fourth grade,
00:51:00.000 –> 00:51:01.000
My fourth grade teacher said
00:51:02.000 –> 00:51:04.000
I would never be anything.
00:51:04.000 –> 00:51:05.000
She called me dumb,
00:51:06.000 –> 00:51:08.000
come and retard it.
00:51:09.000 –> 00:51:11.000
In fourth grade in the south.
00:51:12.000 –> 00:51:13.000
My fifth grade teacher,
00:51:15.000 –> 00:51:16.000
miss Jackson,
00:51:18.000 –> 00:51:19.000
She took those spirits away.
00:51:21.000 –> 00:51:21.000
She said,
00:51:22.000 –> 00:51:24.000
you can be anything in anybody you wanna
00:51:24.000 –> 00:51:25.000
be.
00:51:26.000 –> 00:51:27.000
The fear
00:51:27.000 –> 00:51:28.000
is what
00:51:29.000 –> 00:51:31.000
you imagine it to be.
00:51:32.000 –> 00:51:33.000
I never forgot that.
00:51:34.000 –> 00:51:36.000
I never forgot that.
00:51:37.000 –> 00:51:39.000
And with it, I say you prepare
00:51:41.000 –> 00:51:42.000
for that for the
00:51:44.000 –> 00:51:44.000
uncertainties
00:51:45.000 –> 00:51:46.000
And
00:51:46.000 –> 00:51:48.000
when you get into that moment now, let
00:51:48.000 –> 00:51:50.000
me be clear with you.
00:51:50.000 –> 00:51:51.000
Before every gain,
00:51:53.000 –> 00:51:54.000
before every game.
00:51:55.000 –> 00:51:57.000
I don’t care. The
00:51:58.000 –> 00:51:59.000
the magnitude of a game, if it was
00:51:59.000 –> 00:52:03.000
a game with Lewis and Clark, and Bellville
00:52:04.000 –> 00:52:05.000
Swick at that time.
00:52:06.000 –> 00:52:07.000
I’m just using that as an example.
00:52:09.000 –> 00:52:10.000
I would have to go,
00:52:12.000 –> 00:52:14.000
to the restroom. Yeah. I would say that
00:52:14.000 –> 00:52:16.000
prayer before I walked out there because I
00:52:16.000 –> 00:52:18.000
was the nurse those were the nerds.
00:52:18.000 –> 00:52:19.000
But once,
00:52:20.000 –> 00:52:21.000
I threw that ball up.
00:52:22.000 –> 00:52:23.000
No fear.
00:52:24.000 –> 00:52:25.000
Yeah. You’re prepared.
00:52:27.000 –> 00:52:28.000
You’re prepared
00:52:29.000 –> 00:52:30.000
mentally,
00:52:31.000 –> 00:52:32.000
physically.
00:52:32.000 –> 00:52:34.000
You know the rules.
00:52:34.000 –> 00:52:35.000
Yep. And you just react.
00:52:40.000 –> 00:52:41.000
It’s so true. And then, I mean, I
00:52:41.000 –> 00:52:42.000
even said this to Matt right before we
00:52:42.000 –> 00:52:44.000
started recording this.
00:52:44.000 –> 00:52:45.000
You’re
00:52:45.000 –> 00:52:47.000
stepped outside. And I said, you know, it’s
00:52:47.000 –> 00:52:49.000
funny after three hundred and whatever, eighty five
00:52:49.000 –> 00:52:51.000
guests, you still got the little bit of
00:52:51.000 –> 00:52:54.000
the the nerves. Hightower you don’t. If you
00:52:54.000 –> 00:52:55.000
don’t, you don’t care. I mean, I heard
00:52:55.000 –> 00:52:56.000
Tiger would say that. Right? If he goes,
00:52:56.000 –> 00:52:58.000
if the day I stop being nervous on
00:52:58.000 –> 00:53:00.000
the first tee is what I’m Exactly. And,
00:53:00.000 –> 00:53:02.000
exactly. So that that that matters. That matters.
00:53:02.000 –> 00:53:03.000
So,
00:53:04.000 –> 00:53:06.000
let’s see. So when you think about,
00:53:07.000 –> 00:53:08.000
reading, how important has that been in your
00:53:08.000 –> 00:53:09.000
career?
00:53:10.000 –> 00:53:10.000
Oh,
00:53:11.000 –> 00:53:11.000
absolutely.
00:53:12.000 –> 00:53:14.000
You have to, you know, we have a
00:53:14.000 –> 00:53:16.000
we we we have a sand in church.
00:53:17.000 –> 00:53:18.000
You have to study
00:53:19.000 –> 00:53:21.000
to show yourself approved.
00:53:21.000 –> 00:53:23.000
That’s an old saying in church. Well, it’s
00:53:23.000 –> 00:53:25.000
the same thing with education.
00:53:26.000 –> 00:53:27.000
I read a lot.
00:53:28.000 –> 00:53:30.000
I don’t read just to read, but I
00:53:30.000 –> 00:53:31.000
read a ton,
00:53:32.000 –> 00:53:32.000
particularly
00:53:33.000 –> 00:53:34.000
on the subject matters.
00:53:35.000 –> 00:53:37.000
That are important to me. Yeah. Education,
00:53:38.000 –> 00:53:39.000
when I was
00:53:39.000 –> 00:53:40.000
in education,
00:53:41.000 –> 00:53:42.000
I read every
00:53:43.000 –> 00:53:46.000
article I could get my hands on on
00:53:46.000 –> 00:53:46.000
leadership,
00:53:47.000 –> 00:53:48.000
decision making,
00:53:49.000 –> 00:53:50.000
working with kids,
00:53:50.000 –> 00:53:51.000
understanding
00:53:51.000 –> 00:53:52.000
the dynamics
00:53:52.000 –> 00:53:53.000
of what
00:53:54.000 –> 00:53:56.000
I was gonna be faced with. Yep. Refering,
00:53:57.000 –> 00:53:59.000
I knew that rule book
00:54:00.000 –> 00:54:01.000
back in front.
00:54:01.000 –> 00:54:02.000
Leadership,
00:54:02.000 –> 00:54:03.000
I would always
00:54:05.000 –> 00:54:06.000
read articles
00:54:06.000 –> 00:54:07.000
about leadership
00:54:07.000 –> 00:54:09.000
and decision making
00:54:09.000 –> 00:54:10.000
Okay? Because that
00:54:11.000 –> 00:54:12.000
you learn
00:54:12.000 –> 00:54:14.000
if you can just pick up one little
00:54:14.000 –> 00:54:15.000
nugget.
00:54:15.000 –> 00:54:16.000
Yep.
00:54:16.000 –> 00:54:18.000
It’s gonna make you better at what you
00:54:18.000 –> 00:54:19.000
do. Yep.
00:54:19.000 –> 00:54:21.000
So I’ll close with this one. I’m anxious
00:54:21.000 –> 00:54:23.000
to see. I’ve never asked these questions. I
00:54:23.000 –> 00:54:24.000
just read it this morning. So I read
00:54:24.000 –> 00:54:26.000
my my deal is at least ten pages
00:54:26.000 –> 00:54:27.000
a day. Every day. If I can do
00:54:27.000 –> 00:54:28.000
that, you’re gonna read a lot of books.
00:54:28.000 –> 00:54:30.000
Mhmm. And so I read this today, and
00:54:30.000 –> 00:54:31.000
it was it made me think. I sent
00:54:31.000 –> 00:54:33.000
it to a couple buddies, but it said,
00:54:33.000 –> 00:54:35.000
you know, basically be careful of the feedback
00:54:35.000 –> 00:54:37.000
that you take. Not everything is for you.
00:54:37.000 –> 00:54:38.000
Maybe maybe it’s for you, maybe it’s for
00:54:38.000 –> 00:54:40.000
me, but it it may not be for
00:54:40.000 –> 00:54:42.000
both of us. Right? And it said be
00:54:42.000 –> 00:54:42.000
careful
00:54:42.000 –> 00:54:45.000
because the boiling water that hardens the egg
00:54:45.000 –> 00:54:47.000
softens the carrot.
00:54:47.000 –> 00:54:48.000
So when you hear that, what do you
00:54:48.000 –> 00:54:51.000
think? Well, when I when I see that
00:54:51.000 –> 00:54:53.000
in when I when I when I think
00:54:53.000 –> 00:54:54.000
of it, when I see it, when I
00:54:54.000 –> 00:54:55.000
I believe that,
00:54:56.000 –> 00:54:59.000
you listen, you never not listen.
00:55:02.000 –> 00:55:04.000
Okay. Yeah. But you better have
00:55:05.000 –> 00:55:07.000
the intestinal fortitude and the smartness to be
00:55:07.000 –> 00:55:08.000
able to decipher.
00:55:09.000 –> 00:55:12.000
That’s the big difference right there. Yep.
00:55:12.000 –> 00:55:14.000
Mister Harshberger, my eighth grade history teacher said
00:55:14.000 –> 00:55:17.000
you get two ears, one mouth, using proportional.
00:55:17.000 –> 00:55:19.000
You got it. Doctor Ed Hightower. Man, this
00:55:19.000 –> 00:55:21.000
has been an absolute blast. Thanks for being
00:55:21.000 –> 00:55:22.000
with me, man. Pleasure to be on my
00:55:22.000 –> 00:55:23.000
mind, Brett. Thanks for being on the circuit
00:55:23.000 –> 00:55:25.000
of success. You got it, babe. Thank you.
56 min
December 04, 2023 Making Dreams A Reality with Drew Maddux
Welcome to the Circuit of Success podcast! In this episode, host Brett Gilliland chats with Drew Maddux about “The Power of Planning and Preparation for Success.” Learn why planning is crucial for success and get insights from Maddux’s own life planning routine, where he revisits his goals annually. Discover the benefits of breaking down life into practical areas and making declarations to stay organized and motivated. Maddux encourages overcoming fears, staying motivated during tough times, and emphasizes the importance of a supportive circle. Explore the impact of positive habits and rituals on personal growth, including simple practices like morning routines. Don’t miss Maddux’s recommendations for productivity apps, YouTube videos, and his best college basketball moment. Join us on this journey to success and subscribe for more valuable insights on the Circuit of Success podcast! ??
https://youtu.be/TUbyFzvkoME

Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland, and today I’ve got Drew Maddux with me, Drew. How you doing? Speaker Drew Maddux: Brett, I’m doing great. It’s an honor to be with you this morning. Thanks for having me on your show. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Absolutely. You were in, Nashville, Tennessee. Right? Speaker Drew Maddux: That is correct. I’m I’m a native, which is one of the few these days with with all the, the move ins, you know, from from all over the country, but yeah, I’m a generationally tied here. Our family’s been here for many, many years and never left, the city. My wife’s from here as well, So, yeah, this is this is home and always been home for us. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, you’ve seen some, significant growth, man. It’s a it’s an awesome city. And, obviously, you know that. There your whole life, but we love going down there. I’m only about four hours from there. I’m from Saint Louis, so we’re, we’re pretty close. Speaker Drew Maddux: Yeah. It it is. It’s it’s really good because I still think it’s at the intersection of of what Nashville was and what it’s becoming, and which is exciting of both senses, like the honoring of the past this innovation, this progression of all the newness. And so Yeah. We’ve certainly been the benefactors of a lot of new restaurants and new opportunities and new new ways to do life. And so we’re very, very thankful for the the visionary leadership of our city. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Absolutely. Well, you were a, successful college basketball player there in Vanderbilt as well. So that’s, that’s awesome. I’m sure we’ll talk some about that. And, you you’ve been in the business world, the coaching world, been in the TV world doing some sports commentating. You’ve done all sorts of stuff, and you’ve also wrote a book called Elevated, which is a motivational book on being the best version of you. But before we get started though, Drew, can you, what I always like to do with people is kinda what’s the backstory? What’s made you the man you are today? You don’t just wake up and do all the stuff you’ve done. So if you can share some of that, that would be great. Speaker Drew Maddux: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Brett, for allowing me to do that. It’s it really does begin with, I have incredible parents. I was a son first. I’m the middle of three. My parents were incredible. They were life giving. They were supportive. They were encouraging. Gilliland they were great facilitators for us to dream big and and help support us in the pursuing of what those dreams were. One of the things that I wanted to do when I was little, when I was five years old, my kindergarten teacher asked, what do you wanna be when you grow Gilliland I drew myself in a Vanderbilt basketball uniform, and that picture set my mirror my entire life. And the reason why I was so specific and so intentional as it relates to playing basketball, Vanderbilt was, my father and my grandfather both played basketball at Vanderbilt, and, it was just Other people told stories at bedtime of of other legendary full heroes. My dad told stories of these legendary Vanderbilt basketball players. And so it just was so real in our family, that that’s just what I wanted to do. And so I worked like crazy my entire life in the pursuing of that dream. So it helps shape everything in terms of, my disciplines, my behaviors in the classroom, decisions I made, how I treated my body, and then just, the diligence of what it means to chase after a dream with everything that you had. I was blessed to be able to do that. I grew up here in high school. Had a great high school career, committed to Vanderbelt as a freshman in high school. And so I knew that’s what I wanted to do. So when Eddie Fogler offered that scholarship, I was like, yes. I know that’s what I wanna do. And so was blessed to be able to do that, played here in Nashville, my my entire life. My whole family lives here. So it became a big family reunion every single night we played. It was just a great, great connector of a shared experience for our Gilliland our friends. Met my wife, myself, more year. At Vanderbilt. We got engaged by senior year. We just celebrated twenty five years of marriage, and so she is my best friend. She is my my inspiration. And she is my biggest cheerleader biggest, encouragement in my life. And so, we have an incredible love story. That I’m so thankful for for the way she’s impacted my life. So I’m a husband next. And then thirdly, I’m a dad. So I have a, five children. We have three daughters biologically. And in two thousand ten, December fifteenth, which were coming up on an anniversary of what that means. We adopted two little boys from Uganda. They’re not little anymore. They’re now big sixteen year old boys, and, they completed our family. And so we have five children. So I was a son as a husband, and now, you know, being able to be a father as well. And so really through those three lens, that’s the paradigm by which you know, life works for me and life flows. And then everything else just kind of flows out of that. But, really, those are the three aspects of my life that I’m the most focused on. And I believe if I’m pursuing everything that I have within those three constructs, that, you know, the byproduct will be the opportunity to be excellent as a coach, to be excellent as a speaker, to be excellent as a broadcaster. To be excellent as a business person entrepreneur. All the other things will flow out of that and we’ll be icing on the cake if I’m pursuing the the three loves of my life the most of of of being a son, of being a husband, and being a father. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Love it. That’s a great explanation, man. I think I appreciate you sharing that, Drew. So let let’s talk about that. You’re five years old. You’re talking about dreams and aspirations. And you said I wanna be a Vandy basketball player, and it comes true. So I’m curious on what you think about now as you’ve gone through Gilliland you’ve taught your Gilliland you also coaching Gilliland you’re speaking, how important is it to dream and think big? And what I heard in that story was you didn’t just write it down and put it in your top drawer of of your desk. You put it on your mirror. Right? So how important is that when we’re when we’re giving some advice to people today, listen to this? Speaker Drew Maddux: Yeah. I I I think it’s crucial. It really does begin there. It’s it’s what do you see? You you will become what you see. And, you know, without vision, there’s nothing that’s ever been created, invented, or accomplish without first the site to see it. And so I believe it does start with, you know, if you wanna be excellent at anything, that you wanna accomplish or do or see fulfillment or even joy, you gotta see it first. And I can give you so many examples of that, but certainly in my life, I’m a speaking walking testimony of what that means to see at first. Really then it moves into second phase of it. So as you see it, as you visualize it, it really does move into the preparation. You know, how are you preparing? Does your preparation align with the result that you hope for because so many times where, you know, you’ll you’ll when it gets to game time or you get into the arena, Oh, okay. I’m gonna flick on the switch. I’m gonna turn it on in that moment, but the habits have not been consistent enough in a direct alignment with the result that you hope for. So as you see it, it moves into the planning and the preparation of it. So in order that, you can then step in and do it. You know, so it’s plan for it, and then you gotta go do it, and you gotta deliver it when greatness is required. And then the last piece of that is you gotta finish you gotta finish. And, you know, so many times we’ll step in and you’ll start to execute or you’ll start to do something, but you can’t finish. You can’t complete it. You can’t you see it all the way through. And so it really does begin with the sight to see it first. Are you preparing and planning and practicing in your process and the fulfillment of that site. Do you go and do you step into it and can you do it? And then lastly, do you complete it? Can you finish it all the way through? And I believe that’s the stages of everything, but it does begin with what do you see first? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s it’s, so it’s funny when I was twenty two, twenty three years old starting in my business. I’m in a well management space. I had all my goals, you know, framed, like, literally in a nice picture frame right next to the phone because what did I have to do as a young financial advisor? I had to pick up phone forty, fifty, sixty, hundred times a day to try to get clients. Right? And I knew when when people would tell me no or they would dodge my calls, all the stuff when I could read what was important to me and why I was doing it, it made it easier. Right? So my question there is now, you know, we’re both I think you’re close to my age. We’re in our mid to late forties. And, you know, you probably don’t have the the little picture frame on your mirror anymore, playing basketball. So how does that go now as we’re older? You’ve experienced success in your life. How do those, quote unquote, dreams or those goals play out in your life? Now. Speaker Drew Maddux: Yeah. I I I think it starts with the end in mind. First of all, it’s, you know, your legacy, your next assignment, your next thought, your next habit, your next words spoken, should be in direct alignment with the legacy that you wanna leave behind. And legacy to me is not just what I leave behind, but what do others do because of the investment I made in them? So it really does start with legacy. And so what I do every single year, Brett, is, and and I work with people all the time as we walk through this, But we walk through the framework of legacy. And what does that mean? And then how do you start to really get intentional and practical practical around what legacy means in the different ask of your life. So you start to break that down. Then, you know, we’re about forty days away from when we’re taping this right now, but we’re about forty days away from the end year. So another year is about to start again. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Drew Maddux: And so every year around December, I go through a life planning process. And so I revisit my legacy. I look at my core values. I start to look at my mission and my vision statement of my life and make sure that it’s in direct alignment with my legacy. And then I break down my life in twenty twenty four into six practical areas. And I make three declarations in each of those areas of my life. So I have eighteen declarations broken into six segments of my life that should speak and run through the paradigm of my mission, vision, and core value set that is in direct alignment with my legacy. And so I’m very, very practical about what I go after, but it really does start with senior legacy and then making sure that the paradigm of your life that everything flows through is in direct alignment with that through the core value set through the mission and vision of your life. And then as you start to grab hold of and make a stated claim with what you want the year to look like, not just in terms of success, not just in terms of achievement, but really going after fulfillment aspects of your life, are all of those things working in unison together to make sure it’s speaking into the elements of my eulogy rather than just my resume? You know, really speaking towards the process, not just the outcome, really looking at the story of my life and the unwritten aspects of my life more than the finished product and the outcome of my life. And so all of that is always working day by day, and I visit that stuff, like, literally every single day. I’m pretty, pretty focused. Yeah. I’m pretty disciplined guy. And so I visit that stuff every single morning and make sure I’m speaking into breathing life into those aspects in my life. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Love that, man. So it’s, I was smiling big time there as you get your six. I’ve got I’ve got my six here that I talk about all the time is your faith, your family, your fitness. I call it firm because that’s what we have for work. Right? So faith family fitness firm, fun and finances. Speaker Drew Maddux: I love it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And That’s awesome. Yeah. So So walk me through if you can. Let’s let’s kind of open that, envelope a little bit if we can and and share some stuff. When you when you talk about legacy, I can already tell that’s really, really important to you. So when you say the word legacy, do you mind sharing that? Like, what is that legacy? And what do you think about? Speaker Drew Maddux: Yeah. So so my my legacy, you know, really does start with, you know, how do you wanna be not only how do you wanna be remembered. But what lives on beyond me in the lives of those that I’ve care taken for as well, you know, and made an event in and so I break, legacy into four segments, and and really being very intentional on that. So looking at your spouse, your parents, your kids and then your friends community, you know, colleagues. And I’m a I’m a spiritual person as well. And so kinda the the canopy of all of it it it really does flow, downward because of my, my faith. My faith, Speaker Brett Gilliland: you Speaker Drew Maddux: know, generates, the, the way that I view life and all the aspects of that to be tapping into the faith that I have. And so those are really the four segments. And so it really does start with my my mission and vision statement of my life is is to pick up the trash. Well, what do those four words mean? It means to leave people places and things better than the way that you found them. Well, how do you do that? Drew, what does that look like? That sounds pretty grandiose, and that sounds great. But what do you what do you how do you strip it all away? And how does the neck thing yet, you do really fulfill the legacy you hope to leave behind. Well, it comes down to two things. And I stay focused on this. Number one, love the next one in front of me, the best way I can that our stories are better because they’ve collided together. And then number two, do the next right thing right. If I just focus on those two things, love the next person in front of me, do the next right thing right. I believe that ultimately people will be better for it. Situations will be better for it. Circumstances, experiences, moments, environments, will be better for it. And ultimately, the people that my story collide with, hopefully, will walk away better because of the investment that I made in Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So when I hear I love the next person right, it makes me think about, you know, with, you know, writing the book and and being in business and coaching and being again, the child, your spouse, the parent, how do you stay in the moment and enjoy the moment every day? Speaker Drew Maddux: Poster of gratitude is where it starts. I mean, it it really does for me. So once again, I I if you if you don’t mind me sharing, I’m I’m sure people will think is he just so robotic lucky. But I’m I’m very disciplined when it comes to this because I believe it this is, you know, really where it starts. And so you know, the first thing I do every single day is is, starting my gratitude journal. And as a byproduct in my gratitude journal, I send ten notes whether it sometimes they’re handwritten, sometimes they’re emails, sometimes they’re just texts or voice texts, but I just literally ten people that I began to meditate and pray about I share just, how much I appreciate them. So it really does start with gratitude and appreciation. That’s where it starts. And then everything flows out of that. And so as I seek to love the next one in front of me, and I’d try to do the next right thing right, because I’m so thankful for the gift of today. I’m so thankful for the opportunities that are before me. It allows me to be fully It allows me to stay grounded in the moment to not allow that my next to rob my now, to not allow what just happened to take away the joy of what’s becoming. And to really to really stay, at the intersection of, of what is happening next with what is happening now. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So, so I love that. I think and then one of the questions I was gonna ask is your habits and rituals, and I would say that That happens probably almost every day, doesn’t it? That Every Speaker Drew Maddux: day. There’s not a day that that that does not that’s not how the day starts. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s amazing. Yeah. Even on Christmas morning. It didn’t matter. That’s a Speaker Drew Maddux: He said on even on Thanksgiving morning, you know, even even on those days, because here’s here’s here’s the way I think too, like even on those days. So I’m not interested, in being average. I’m not interested in being good. I’m not interested in, just getting by or doing what everybody else does. And the human conditioner on those days we would take off from those elements of our life. And so the ones that I’ve been around that are great or excellent or elite and who they are as people and what they do, even on those days, even on vacation, even on the weekend, even when you don’t want to, Those are the days you have to. You know, and so I I that’s just what I believe in. And so, yeah, even on the holidays, even on the weekend, even on the vacation, you still lean into what you wanna, what you have declared is important in your life. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, think about the message you have for your kids. Right? I mean, what a great legacy to leave on to the next one. Right? The the now they’re our age, and they’re in their mid forties, and they’ve got a family. And now they wake up and share gratitude and send messages to people because it it just it it just goes right because now how do those ten people feel when they get a message? Now they’re gonna go out and uplift people more often and stuff. Speaker Drew Maddux: And so Speaker Brett Gilliland: so, yeah, this is all phenomenal, but what about the days that it’s not going well? Right? Not every day is just perfect. So so how do you kinda, you know, put your work boots on, lift yourself up and keep going? Speaker Drew Maddux: Yep. It it’s it’s who you surround yourself with. You know, you That’s that’s where it’s it’s it’s two things, when it comes to this, because like you said, even on the days, you don’t, you don’t have the juice. You still gotta lean into the day. And so I I believe, you know, it’s two things. One is who you surrounded by? Who are those people that breathe life into you in those days when you don’t have what it takes or when you’re it’s not going well or it’s a struggle or it’s a challenge or hardship, life is lived in relationship and community. So I Yeah. Will I will become who I surround myself with. And so those are the days I’ve got to have great community. That care deeply for me that is not conditional. Like, even on those hard moments, on those hard days, those are when I need them the most not when things are going great, and I’m living out of a highlight reel. That’s easy, you know, to hook your way into that. And but number two is, you know, So it’s back to the gratitude piece of this is what are those things that, that you fight for every day that are beyond you or bigger you. What are those calls is that that are are far without of your reach and how does that start to pull you up out of those moments of when you feel low. And so I I believe it’s a Gilliland it’s a real and it’s being it’s living life in a relationship with others. I think those two things are when I am not at my best. I try to reposition. I reach out to others that I know care deeply for me. I’m vulnerable enough I’m authentic enough to be my truest self and ask for help when I need it. And then number two, what are those elements of calls is that I’m fighting for well beyond me? And how does that play out so it can shift and pivot my mindset or my heart set in that Speaker Brett Gilliland: moment? Well, I think it’s used what you just shared there, the the being vulnerable. Is, I think, especially as guys. Man, I think it’s when we’re having tough times, it it’s hard to reach out. Right? It’s hard to be quote unquote weak is what some people would think, but I found it as well is when when I can share what’s going on and rally the troops and having that good circle of people around you is is critically important. You know, my dad used to say when I was a kid, he used to drive me nuts, piss me off. I didn’t think you liked my kid or my friends, but he’d say the people you surround yourself with in the books you read. Right? And and he could’ve been more right. So for me, bad times. I go to my journal. I go right here to my journal. I write down stuff, and I’m surrounded by great people, and I read good stuff. Right? Garbage in, garbage out. And so put good stuff in your body, great things come out as well. So, what other things besides the legacy and and some of the things you talked about in the morning, your gratitude, what are some habits and rituals that if I followed you around every day that I would see or no mis items for you? Speaker Drew Maddux: Yeah. I’m a avid reader. First of all, I love that you said that. So, I’m always reading anywhere from five to six books at a time. I try to read over fifty books a year, which would be, you know, an average of one a week. So that’s what I’m trying to do. You know, I’m sending out at least ten, connects every single day, of gratitude appreciation. And and some of those people are repeats, you know, throughout the week. It may be the same person that resurfaces back up, but Hey, you were prayed for today. I thought about you today. I’m thankful for you today. Thank you for making an investment in me today. I I I think those those two elements are very, very important. I think, you’re gonna see, somebody that that is, focused on making sure his physical wellness is good as well. So like this morning, we after twenty years, we play basketball full court three days a week still, group of guys at 05:30AM. We’re still gonna get up. We’re gonna exercise even on the off days. So our physical, you know, well-being is is very important. My diet’s very important, especially as I’m getting close to fifty. So I’ve changed my diet, very gotten very, driven in terms of making sure I’m taking care of my body physically. My spiritual well-being, you know, I’m I’m My faith, once again, informs a lot of who I am. So, I’m reading back through the Bible again every day. So I’m reading back through that. So every day I’m in the word. I’m doing that as well. And then just trying to do other things from a mental emotional wellness standpoint to make sure that my spirits cleanse, that if my heart is good, and and just making sure that that mentally, you know, I’m ready for whatever the day presents And so I would say those areas of mental, emotional, spiritual, relational, physical well-being are so important. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Love it. Love it, man. Basketball three times a week. I like it. Speaker Drew Maddux: Yeah. We, you know, it’s a game that started at Vanderbilt with the, the coaching staff. They used to call it lunch bunch, and they would play at noon on Tuesday, Fridays. And then when I got done playing at Vanderbilt, I started to play in that game. And then when I left the world of health care to come to Christ Press Academy to be a vast football coach. We moved that game to, to the morning on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. So it has just continued. It’s like the the secret fraternity in Nashville. So We have a lot of former Tennessee titans, national predators, former Vanderbilt basketball players, football players. It’s it’s a it’s a great group of guys that once again, A call connects us, but it shares this experience and it’s built this incredible community together. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Love that. Love it, man. So talk about your book elevated, a motivational book on being the best version of you. Let’s talk about that for a minute. What what was the reasoning behind writing it? And then, what would our our our listeners get out of reading that book. Speaker Drew Maddux: Yes. You know, we’ve we’ve written two books, by the way, so we wrote elevated and excavated. So elevated was, really, I’ve always wanted to write a book. So I’m a journaler. I write every day. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Drew Maddux: And so for Just even if nobody read it, I wanted to go through the personal discipline of what it meant to have to try to put something like that together. What does that really look like to work on my own growth and development. I got a virtual hearing who’s become a dear dear friend. He’s probably one of the leading golf performance coaches in the world. Coached many PGA tour professionals. He and I got together, because of a a podcast I did with him, And we started to understand that we had a lot of like minded thoughts around excellence and leadership and what makes great people great. And so we got in a room and whiteboarded out. What makes great people great? We just started listing attributes of what makes great people great teams CEO coaches, performers, great at what they do. We came up with, like, I think, like, a hundred and fifty to a hundred and sixty words that we thought just as we brainstorm We cut that down to fifty that we could agree to. And so what we did was, for fifty straight days, Brett, we journaled about that one word. So the first word in the book’s perseverance. So you would write about perseverance or or virgil would write about perseverance, and I would write about perseverance. And we would share that journal entry together. And then day two, you know, whatever the word was, resilience, day three. And we just literally for fifty straight days did that practice, and we would share the journal injury with one another. And so what we wanted it to become was our book became your book. And so back to it, we’re both journalers and writers. So we would if you open up the book perseverance, Drew’s entry, Virgil’s entry, and the empty page. So the reader could therefore write whatever their journal entry would be about that word. And so that that is how, our book transfers to ownership to becoming your book. And so that was the idea. It went on to have great success. Who would have thought? Became like, number one on Amazon and coaching and leadership, and and we had great success with that book. So we followed it up during COVID, with excavated, and we wrote about fifty words that would have almost like a negative connotation because of what we were going through as a world But sometimes it may be setting you up for the biggest blessing of your life. So how do you dig deeper to go even further beyond what you would hope for? So then we had a hundred words between those books and we signed, we did our podcast. We did a hundred episodes, in partnership with cumulus media. And we did, a podcast around each of those words. And we did a hundred episodes. So there’s a lot of content out there for anybody that would love to about leadership performance, you know, greatness, excellence, those kind of things. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. We’ll put that in the show notes for sure. There’s no doubt about that. That’s awesome. We’ll do that. And then, talk about the risks. See, what what risk are you happy that you’ve taken throughout your life? Speaker Drew Maddux: So I’ve I’ve taken too big risk, as it relates to my career. So I would start there. Number one, I was involved in the world of health care. I was in health care technology with a company that was hugely successful. When I left Vanderbilt, I moved quickly up to be president of a region at age twenty six. And, was had the world by the by the tail, by the way you would define six success. Yeah. But as much as I was winning in the world of my professional since I was losing personally at home, I would leave every single Sunday or Monday and and go out of town and come back Friday. And, I I just was not interested in that being the rhythm of life for our family. So I took a risk and, a school took a risk on me because I had no coaching experience, but I left the world of technology health care and moved into basketball coaching at Christ Press Academy. We’d went on to have a lot of fun. Had more success than we deserved. Was there for fifteen years. Once again, had the world by the tail in terms of the way that you would define success and, retire from coaching to step back into the corporate world and joined the Defrain Spencer group, my friend, Chad Spencer, our CEO, founder of our organization, as Executive Vice President of of people in leadership development. And just, that was a a major risk as well to leave everything I knew. And people thought I was absolutely crazy. What do you mean you’re gonna leave basketball coaching to go in and do this this other thing. And so those two risks have each taken me to a different level in my journey and I’m so thankful for it. And then I think the the bigger risk of of all risk was adoption was foreign concept to our family. We didn’t really know much about adoption. We didn’t know many families that had adopted. But, you know, we we fell in love with, just the people of Uganda, that part of the world we were involved in several positions. And, we knew we couldn’t affect the orphan and, crisis across the world, but we could affect the lives of at least one or two, and it ended up being two in our life. And that risk has had exponential return, in our life for for what we did by saying yes to them. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, that’s two lucky sixteen year old boys right there coming to that house, man. That’s, that’s awesome. Very cool. And so talk about that from the leadership development. I think you said just what you’re doing for the company that you’re involved with now. What what are you seeing that the everyday person, right, driving down the road? What are we seeing that that you think people really need to focus on and need help the most right now? Speaker Drew Maddux: Yeah. Well, specifically in our world, the world of retail, you know, we’re in the home furnishings world. And Yeah. You know, obviously, if you look at a macro level economically around the country right now, you’re in this space. I mean, you so you understand you study it you know, because of of the way the world is at this moment, you know, home buys have slowed. So, therefore, home furnishings has slowed. And so, the thing that we’re trying to get our people in a down economic environment retail wise for us is you know, really, how how do you elevate your mindset and not allow the the the external circumstances of the world really dictate who you are and the life that you’re meant to live. Because so many times those external circumstances really do affect who we are as husbands and wives and fathers and mothers and all those things. And so, really, that’s the challenge that I have the most right now, Brett, is trying to encourage our people to not be taken out of the fight because of the external circumstances that they’re living in right now and the effect professionally what they’re living and how that affects their personal lives and their marriage in the way that they parent their communities. And so just really trying to separate the two that what you do is not who you are. And I think sometimes we hook our wagons into that that monetary success or performance or titles all of those things really dictate who you are. And in a down economic environment, it’s just what the world is How do you still seek to find fulfillment and joy in all the other aspects of your life and how do you stay intrinsically motivated to continue to pursue all that you were created to be. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And going back to where we were at to start, really, is and I’m the exact same way you I mean, I’m in my journal here and I write down my goals every single day what my goals are for the next ninety days that then go into my year, which go into my three, five, and ten year goals. Right? And so don’t you think the importance of that of doing this daily? I mean, every single day without fail, because you you talked about a robot I feel that way sometimes too. I I know exactly what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna drop my bag off. I grab the book. I’m reading. I grab my journal. I go grab my water. I mean, I do the exact same thing every single morning when I walk into the office. So how important is that for somebody listening to this right now that may not have that that we have to do something the same old stuff day in and day out. Speaker Drew Maddux: Well, I I I believe, you know, routine is so critical because routine and habits will set the table for you to experience fulfillment and success. And I I just believe if you’re not Like, I’m I’m probably over. I’m OCDs. So by nature, like, I want everything to be orderly. I want everything to be just right, but that allows me to be at my optimum level. And and that allows me to maximize all that I can be. And if anything’s out of sorts or I’m not stepping into those habits or those routines, I felt out of sorts And then I’m not bringing my true self to the table. And so what I would say to anybody, to your point, Brett, is start somewhere. Even if if you’re not that kind of person, you can still start with one. And and we learned in atomic habits from James Clear, like, start with one, then stack number two on top of it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And Speaker Drew Maddux: then the stack number three and then the compounding effect of all of those things together you’ll start to see the massive effect that that can have to the one percent, two percent incremental improvement that you desire. But it really does start with the next right decision, the next habit, the next word, the next thought, the next mindset, and how do you start to add that and start to understand the effect that all of that has, that there are no big things or small things. They’re just things. And you have a way that you do it. And the way that you approach it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Trust the process, man. Great, man. Last few questions here. I this is one of my favorite questions. I’ve asked them pretty much almost every, episode for three hundred and eighty something people at the pleasure of interviewing, which has been phenomenal. But, fears. How many of the fears that you’ve put in your mind have ever blown up to the magnitude you put them in your mind to be? Speaker Drew Maddux: Yeah. I I would say not many. You know, it it’s it’s a majority of what we’re fearful of never comes to be a reality. You know, and so, you know, you’re you’re actually only only born with two fears when you come into the world. You know, so that means if we learn from Mark Badterson, one of my of writers. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s all your Speaker Drew Maddux: all your fears are learned. And, you know, his thought is and what he’s what he’s taught me through his readings and and listening into sermon’s is, if your fears can be learned, then therefore your fears can be unlearned. And so how do you start to, unlearn some of those fears that have had a gripping effect in your life because what you start to see is you look back over the course of your life, the things you were most fearful of, like you said, Brett didn’t come true. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Drew Maddux: And so just really starting to understand that. So, yeah, to your to to answer the question, I can’t think of many if one of something that I built up as a monumental fear in my life, that let reach the level of of anxiety or even panic actually happened in my life. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yep. And that’s why I asked the question. I mean, right? We all have those same thoughts, those same feelings that go into our mind. I heard somebody say the other day too is from a from getting things done and taking action. It was it was great. It said make decisions based on your knowledge. Not on your emotion. Speaker Drew Maddux: Right? Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So just take the gym, for example. Right? You talk about physical fitness. And and that’s really helped me is sometimes my emotion is, I don’t wanna go do that. I don’t wanna do this at all. So if I’m making the decision on emotions, I’m not gonna go. Right? But if I base it on my knowledge, I know I need to go because of a, b, c, and d. It’s an easier decision to go make. So when you hear me say that, make a decision based on your knowledge, not on your emotion, what comes to mind for you? Speaker Drew Maddux: Yeah. Well, I started to think about when I when I think about that, I think about if we tied to fear, know, so you if you analyze the past overcoming a fear, if you did have to overcome a fear, did it come to be a reality or not? So analyze past fears, anchor a thought beyond the fear to your point, the knowledge of of what you hoped for. So anchor a thought beyond it. And then you gotta act. You gotta move. You gotta go. So as you analyze and as you anchor a thought beyond, you gotta act and you gotta go and you gotta move. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So let’s, talk about cell phones here. Anything on your phone. If I stole your cell phone from you, besides, you know, your normal email and calendar stuff to help run your life, is there an app or anything that you use for productivity or just, you know, something that you love to use or you pretty much not too much technology in your life? Speaker Drew Maddux: No. I I I mean, I just use the the calendar. So I I I literally, invite myself to different calendar invites. So even, scheduling, sleeping. I mean, I I even like down to that, like, I wanna make sure I own my calendar. My calendar doesn’t own me. There’s no reaction to what the day presents. Like, I have taken control of that. And so I use my calendar app as inviting myself to make sure I’m I’m fully to your point present and what I wanna make sure that that my day looks like Speaker Brett Gilliland: Love it. Love it. Where do our listeners find more of Drew Maddox? Speaker Drew Maddux: So across all social media, you know, so Twitter at Drew Maddux, Facebook, Instagram, dramatic forty five, LinkedIn, any anywhere you can find any of that stuff, I post daily content, You can go to Amazon and you can look up elevated and excavated. You can go to podcast iTunes Spotify to grab our our podcast. And also, you know, something that people, have become fun to kind of follow is, you know, we’ve done a lot of trick shots we’re at over the years because of our basketball can’t. So we have eight world records. I’ve been pictured on ESPN Ellen Ellen Show. Good morning America. All over the world that those those videos have several hundred million views. And so people may enjoy getting those as well. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Where we find those? Speaker Drew Maddux: On YouTube or just Speaker Brett Gilliland: And what’s is it under your name or where’s it at? Speaker Drew Maddux: Yeah. Just any I mean, just any news source. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Drew Maddux: Into Google Jurmatics, and you can see a lot of those trick shots. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, you’ll probably get some, four new subscribers being my four boys that, Like, people wanna watch YouTube more than they wanna watch TV these techs, Speaker Drew Maddux: you know, though. And that’s the truth. So, yeah, we, the trick shots have become, like, of all the things that’s probably you know, what what people wanna talk about the most. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s funny. That’s really funny. So, one last question I was gonna ask, best college basketball moment that you can remember that you played in. What was, one of those best moments that will you’ll never forget. Speaker Drew Maddux: When very first time, our name was announced for the NC of Lake tournament. You know, it’s just when your name got popped up that you had made March Maddux, I think was that that was special. First time I ever ran on Memorial Jim’s floor as a player fulfilling that dream. And then the third piece was beating number one ranked UCLA was probably our best win we ever had in my career. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Well, Drew, thanks so much for being with me, man. It’s been awesome having you on the circle of success, sharing your stories and your passion and your legacy. And, we really appreciate your time, man. Speaker Drew Maddux: I appreciate it, Brett. Thanks so much. I look forward to, following the success of the show.
39 min
November 27, 2023 From $1M to $10M: Strategies for Elite Entrepreneurial Growth with Brett Gilliland
In this power-packed episode, Brett Gilliland meets Brett Gilliland, the Founder and CEO of Elite Entrepreneurs. Brett is a seasoned expert in organization development, leadership, and strategy, with a remarkable track record. He played a pivotal role in propelling Infusionsoft from $7M to over $100M in revenue and co-created the prestigious Infusionsoft’s Elite Forum. Discover Brett’s journey, from shaping the foundational elements of Purpose, Values, and Mission at Infusionsoft to facilitating strategic planning processes. Learn about his role in developing Infusionsoft’s Leadership Model and the pivotal decision to spin the Elite business out of Infusionsoft, a move that has shaped his current role as the passionate owner of Elite Entrepreneurs. Beyond the boardroom, Brett is a devoted family man, finding joy in spending time with his beautiful wife, Sharon, and their eight children. Join us for an engaging conversation filled with actionable strategies and inspiration for entrepreneurs looking to level up their businesses and personal lives. ?️ Tune in now for a dose of entrepreneurial wisdom and a glimpse into the mindset of a leader dedicated to helping businesses thrive. Don’t miss this opportunity to learn from one of the industry’s finest! #Entrepreneurship #BusinessGrowth #LeadershipSuccess
Brett Gilliland Meets Brett Gilliland!
Welcome to the Circuit of Success podcast The Circuit of Success podcast. With your host, Brett Brett. Brett Gilliland. Brett Gilliland, visionary wealth advisory.
Brett Gilliland. Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I am your host, Brett Gilliland. And And you’re seeing my big smile here if you’re watching this because I’m interviewing Brett Gilliland. How you doing today, Brett?
I’m doing fantastic, see, Brett. Although this is a little strange, I gotta admit. It is a little weird, isn’t it? Yeah. It’s fun. I can honestly say it’s the 1st time I’ve ever spoken to another Brett Gilliland.
This is cool. Same same with me, and I’ve been looking forward to this. We both have podcasts and and interview lots of people, and Somebody actually confused us for one another on LinkedIn. Yep. And we said, hey. Let’s let’s do this.
I’m like, should the Brett Gilliland interview another Brett Gilliland? Like, And here we are. But you are I’m a say you’re twice as productive as me. You know why that is? No. Tell me. You have 8 kids, and I have 4 kids.
Oh, that’s right. Yeah. So when you set it up that way, Brett, you’re supposed to say, I only have 4 kids. Right. I I mean, everybody else listening is like, 4 kids is a lot. What it is a lot, and and 8 is crazy.
So yes. What is your mix of age from youngest to oldest is what? So we have a 25 year old son, And I was telling you before we hit record that he and his wife were expecting our 1st grandbaby, which I’m super excited about.
So So on the on the upper end is 25, and then we have 15 year old twins who are sophomores in high school.
So Wow. In a ten and a half year period, you know, we did get the 2 for 1 there at the end. Yeah. But, yeah, lot of Lot of craziness for a a good chunk of our married lives.
But that was a fun day when you got the ultrasound. It’s like, wait. Wait. Was say it again. There’s 2 in there? Exactly. Well, with all these little kid we had 6 little kids. We’re like, okay.
I guess, you know, like, we already know what it’s like to have another little one. My wife actually went to the doctor by herself because I was taking care of the little ones. And we didn’t have anybody around to help us out.
So I was with them, and she came home with pictures of baby a and baby b. And I was like, what are you talking about? Yeah. That’s incredible. Well, I’m excited to have you, man. You are the founder and CEO of Elite Entrepreneurs.
You’re a company that specializes in giving $1,000,000 business owners the knowledge process and tools to grow to $10,000,000 and beyond. So we’re gonna 10 x these businesses that you’re working with.
I know you got a huge community of those people that you’re helping, and you’re an expert in organizational development, leadership, Strategy, and you spent 10 years helping Infusionsoft grow from 7,000,000 in revenue to over a 100,000,000 in revenue, man.
So we got some stuff to talk about Day. So I’m excited. But if you can, take me back to what made Brett Golan the man he is today.
Oh, wow. That’s that’s a big question. I’m I’m gonna I’m gonna assume the professional angle on that. So, I studied a master’s program called organizational behavior.
I got an undergrad in business. I grew up in a large family, not surprisingly, because because I have a large family, but, my dad was a business owner, and his dad was a business owner before that.
So I kinda grew up in In a family business, it was construction. I live in the Phoenix area. And as a teenager, I worked In the hot summer sun in the summers, I I guess I already said the hot summer sun.
Anyway, summers, I worked for my dad, and I was, you know, A peon on the job site, laborer. Go pick up that pile of concrete trash and put it in a trailer and haul it off to the dump.
And So I I did physical labor in the sun in Phoenix. And, as I got older, I went to school, and I thought, I I’m probably just gonna go into the family business.
That’s just Mhmm. Kinda what I knew. And before I graduated from college with my business degree, My dad felt like he should just go ahead and shut his business down.
He’s like, I don’t want my boys tied to this thing. And so he he may he took it off the table altogether. He just shut it down, and I I thought, well, now what am I gonna do? Because I that was the default path.
Right? Yeah. So he shut it down, and I graduated. And I I’ve never even done all the internship things that you’re supposed to do as a as a business undergrad, and and I just got a job in in Customer success.
It was actually at a Ford dealership in a little place called Farmington, New Mexico, and I learned to be very customer service oriented.
I had a business background, and and they thought I could Help them on the service aisle there, and I did that for a couple years.
And I was so stressed out with that job because it was just Angry customer after angry customer. 2 years of that, I I just said, I gotta go back to school. I gotta I gotta figure out what I’m doing.
And I had a a memory of really enjoying my organizational behavior class, which is all about the Organizations as systems and how they work, and and it was a very people first leadership kind of a a discipline.
And so I went to graduate school, and and, you know, then I got some jobs after graduate school. But, eventually, I found my way back to small business.
And I I kinda took this Big business education, and I and I applied it to helping entrepreneurs go from scrappy founder to capable business building CEO. So That’s amazing. Long story, but that’s that’s what I do.
And so now what do you I mean, I know you’ve helped hundreds of business owners, you know, go from that you know, your struggle zone into that Kinda what I’d call that optimal peak performance zone.
And so if you can, like, what what to our listeners out there right now, what what are some of the things?
Maybe are there 2 or 3 or 4 things that are the The constant theme that you saw throughout people no matter what business they were in?
Yeah. Some constant themes that won’t be They won’t be new to you, but maybe just another another voice out there saying, yep. This is this is the thing.
In that transition from Entrepreneur to CEO. Right? Scrappy foundry learns and does everything to Now I’m I’m building a team and leading them is that they have to figure out how not to be the bottleneck in the operations.
Right. They can’t be an integral part of the machine if they wanna grow.
They can be an integral part of the machine if they wanna If they wanna cap out at some point, they they can only take that business so far themselves, even if they’ve hired some people around them, If they become an integral part of delivering the value of that business, once they figure out that they have to step out of that And become a leader, now we can actually set a bigger vision, and we can build a team to go achieve that vision together and start to Organize work and and delegate that work in a way that gives real ownership and responsibility to others.
Like, those are that’s That’s the biggest thing.
I mean, there’s some other things you have to learn, but the biggest step is really going from that doer in the middle of all of it to Capable business building leader. I’m writing down some notes there.
I don’t disagree at all. And I think, Wouldn’t you agree with this or maybe not? But but one of the hardest things, I think, in that step, though, is if you’re the founder, you’re the CEO, you’re the leader, You’re the the janitor.
You’re the, whatever, the sales director. Yeah. It’s it’s hard, though, to bet on yourself sometimes, isn’t it?
And hire that person and hire the next person and hire the next person or do you see that’s a constant battle there? It’s it’s really difficult. And and I love that you used the term bet on yourself.
It’s ironic that you would use that term. I I think that’s true. But it it’s sort of like this This failure to trust that somebody else can take it. It’s almost like a a lack of belief that somebody else can step up and do this.
But it it really does come back to betting on myself that I can organize this work in a way that I can hand it off to somebody and Train them to be successful with it.
Or if you’re hiring somebody who doesn’t really need training around the technical aspect of the job that I can actually trust, That they’ll they’ll own it like I would because a lot of it is feeling like they won’t take care of the customer the way that I would, Or Right.
You won’t maintain the level of excellence here that I would, or, you know, they just won’t do it as as well as I would. So, Anyway, it’s it’s a lot of it’s a lot of belief in self and belief in others that holds people back from.
Yeah. It’s scary. I mean, it’s really scary, isn’t it? It’s okay. I’m gonna put my hard earned dollars on the line and and and and make it happen and feed another family and and be responsible for them.
And so I was lucky enough to to do that when I was 23, 24 years old, and I’ve I’ve constantly had employees. But I’ll tell you, it’s Still scary every time you keep doubling down and keep doubling down and hiring people.
So for those listening, you gotta take the 1st step. You know, just how even if it’s somebody part time, hire somebody and it’s a game changer, to help you get where you wanna go.
So what what are the steps So you are walking business owners through that are at that million. We wanna get to 10,000,000. I assume there’s your mission, your vision, your values, kind of that purpose.
Those things are all there. But what are what are some other things that we’re having them do to make sure we get to 10 x our business, And how do we get there as quickly as we possibly can?
It’s a great question, Brett. I I think, you know, we we all love the analogy of the hats. Right. Entrepreneurs talk about all the hats that they wear. Yeah. And and it’s it’s totally true.
And you feel the weight of it when you when you have all of that Responsibility on you, and and scaling is is a function of being able to shed the hats. Right? To to build the team to a place where you can shed those responsibilities.
Well, I had a guest on on our podcast one time, the one the one that we do, for this 7 figure scaling journey, I and I had a guest named Noah who talked about this in a really cool way.
He said And and they were growing super fast. You said, if if 6 months from now, I’m still doing the same activities as I was doing 6 months before, I know I haven’t given away enough fast enough. Right?
So, literally, the only way his business could continue growing Was if he if he brought up the next people to do the next thing and and to be able to shed those responsibilities to give it to So let let me back up and say, of all the hats that we wear as business owners, at least for a 7 figure business owner who wants to To go to that 10,000,000 mark and beyond, there’s 3 hats that you’re gonna you’re gonna hang on to.
You’re not actually gonna shed yourself of these responsibilities entirely, but all the rest of the hats, you’re gonna get rid of.
So the first hat is the one that you already mentioned, set the vision. Right? We gotta get total clarity and alignment around purpose, values, mission, strategy, right, all of that big picture stuff.
That that’s ours. We I mean, I I know a lot of business owners, myself included, who would love to, like, abdicate Certain responsibility. Like, I just want somebody to take that for me and never have to think about that again.
Yep. But setting the vision is not one of them. Like, you have to be the one to lead that and ensure that we are consistent. We’re we’re true to that vision.
Doesn’t mean that does not mean that we do it all our ourselves. Like, I I like setting the vision with the team, not At the team, to the team, for the team. Right? Yep. But I agree. Yeah. So, setting the vision’s first half.
The second half is about building the team, And we’ve talked about that a little bit, but who else would be responsible for organizing the work and building Putting the right people on the bus in the right seats to go achieve that vision.
And then the last hat, which is no small hat either, is called Get the resources. Another way to think about that is extend the the financial runway to make sure that we can, in fact, go achieve the vision that we’ve set.
A lot of us as business owners like to use the term, don’t run out of cash. Right? When we’re talking about that hat, we say, don’t run out of money.
And that’s that’s true. We we can’t run out of money. I like the the more invested investment mindset version of that, which is Secure fuel for growth or get the resources.
But those 3 hats, set the vision, build the team, get the resources, That that’s that’s you leveling up so that you can scale. And all the rest of it, you gotta make sure that you have great people in place to be able to deliver it.
Yep. And I agree with you on the getting the buy in from the the key stakeholders. Right? I mean and I think for us, it’s Working on the business versus working in the business.
So this Friday, we’re going as a team, and and we’re gonna go off-site. And we’re spending 4 and a half hours, you know, deciding our priorities for 2024.
And for, again, leaders listening that may not do that stuff, I I can’t Express enough how important that is is to get off-site away from the office, away from distractions, get yourself a journal, your piece of paper, Go think, dream, strategize about what you wanna accomplish in the next year coming up.
And then it’s just a game plan of holding yourself accountable.
Right. Constantly putting those notes up in front of you throughout the year. Don’t just put them in a, you know, a your nightstand or something or your your desk and never look at them.
Constantly look at them, hold yourself accountable. I think people would be surprised in what they wake up and accomplish in a year.
Would you agree? Absolutely. Yeah. And and all these phrases have been said before, but, you know, this is business by design instead of by default or a life by design instead of by default.
And it’s whether it’s organizational effectiveness or personal effectiveness, We all know the very most successful people out there are really clear about their intention first.
They know exactly what they’re gonna go create. And and I use that term very intentionally because we’re we’re all we’re all kinda making it up. Right? Like Right. This business didn’t exist before You started your business.
This podcast didn’t exist before you started this podcast. None of us had the thing until we went and created the thing. Yeah. But but, eventually, the thing starts to overtake us and and starts to rule over us.
And And it’s it’s things like you described. It’s getting away from the office with your team, cocreating that future, Designing what are we going to go build from here.
Here we’re here now. Where do we wanna be at the end of next year? How Are we gonna go align our resources to go make that happen?
So very, very sound practice. Goes go off-site Every year, every quarter, actually, I I love quarterly planning. Make sure that we’re clear and that we’re aligned. Yep. I agree.
So what when you look back at your career, I think a lot of us had these defining moments. For you, was there a defining moment or that risk that you’re happy you took? I like that. It’s a good good question for me me to reflect.
You mentioned the the 10 year well, you didn’t say 10 years. Maybe you did. I don’t remember the bio, but I spent 10 years at that company that used to be called Infusionsoft. It’s now called Keep.
And when we were at 7 figures growing to a100,000,000, and we we hired hundreds of people during that time. And we were trying to grow as fast as we could as the leadership team to enable our business to continue growing.
And I’ll I think Clayton Mask is the CEO of that that business still today. Again, the company is called Keep now, but He invested in our growth. He knew that as a team excuse me.
As a business, there’s no way that that business was going to outgrow The level of capability of his leadership, and by extension, our leadership team, and and ultimately, by the collective contribution of the the entire Team.
Right? All all the team members that we’ve had. And so he would say in our onboarding process to our new hires, I’m not the CEO today that our business needs me to be 12 months from now.
Like, where we’re going, the business demands that I’d be at a new level of growth, of ability, of capability, of excellence.
And today, I’m not that person. But you can count on the fact. You can take it to the bank That by the end of those 12 months, I will be the CEO this company needs.
And and he would he would constantly push himself to grow because that’s the only way that our business was gonna be able to keep growing.
And he invited the rest of us to do that. So that was that was part of me during that journey. And as part of that investment, he he stroked a check, a very large check at the time.
I don’t know that I would have done it, But he stroked a very large check for us to spend 2 half day sessions with Jim Collins at his Ave in Boulder, Colorado.
And and he would do stuff like this just to keep pushing what was possible for us and get us thinking bigger and get get outside help.
And that was so influential for me. I’m a big Jim Collins fan. You probably didn’t need me to say that based on everything that I’ve just been Sharing about how to help businesses.
But the principles in his book, his books about what makes a great enduring company And, you know, what real leadership looks like. We just put all of those concepts into place in an actual company and Found great success.
And then we had tens of thousands of our software users seeing how well we were scaling and then asking us, Would you teach us that scaling stuff?
I I know your software is about, you know, sales and marketing automation and growing our our sales, But we see how well you’re building your company.
We interact with your people, and they’re all amazing. How are you finding them, and how are you doing this? And and so then We started teaching this business scaling stuff.
And so it was it’s really in the process of applying what I learned in graduate school And and a few jobs to the situation of scaling the company and and learning from some of the best out there That created the opportunity that is my business today.
We we built this little business inside of that software company.
And then after about 6 years, I bought it, and we spun it out. So I I don’t know that I would have ever done this on my own, frankly. I I I didn’t have the entrepreneurial makeup from the start that many of you do.
But now I’m I’m so grateful that I’ve been on this journey and And just love love helping out that you do it. Yeah. It’s great. It’s great. Strong self awareness too, I think, from your CEO, the story you told there.
And, You know, I think it’s hard to have self awareness sometimes. And so what advice would you look what what advice would you give for the person looking for Self awareness.
How do I find self awareness? What process could I go through, for that? Well, from a from, I guess the starting place, I would say, that all business problems ultimately are leadership problems.
And so if something’s not going right in your business, You really need only look as far as the mirror. Now that’s not to say that nobody else has any responsibility in that.
But if you’re unhappy with something that’s going on in your business, It always comes back to you as the leader. And whoever it is that’s owning whatever you’re not happy about, that that does come back to you.
So at a very foundational level, Every business problem is a leadership problem. From there, as far as increasing our awareness, it’s super helpful to get some outside perspective.
I had somebody one time tell me, can’t see the label from inside the jar. Like, we all operate inside this jar, and there’s a label on there That that everybody else can see about us, but we we can’t see it from inside the job.
And we need people, Whether it’s an advisor, like, the valuable service that you provide for people managing their wealth, Whether it’s a a coach or a trainer or a facilitator or whatever that you use to help you see your way of being as a leader.
And because, you know, we’re we’re we’re like the fish swimming in water. We don’t if we don’t know what water is, we we’ve always been in it. And and it’s just helpful to get outside perspective.
So, there’s some mindset things. There’s certainly reading, Listening to podcasts, I mean, all that stuff helps, but you you need somebody who can help you hold up the mirror from time to time and talk through some things.
I’m a believer in asking great questions to myself even. So I I always say ADT, ask, don’t tell. And I think the more we can ask ourselves Tough questions that you may wanna ask somebody else, but ask yourself.
Right? Ask yourself that exact same question and and write those thoughts down. And And what I do, I spend strategic think time every Wednesday, 1 to 2:30, hour and a half, ink pen, my journal.
People probably tired of hearing me say that on here, but I I just I say it all the time because nobody builds a discipline to do that.
And when you build your strategic think time around things that you wanna accomplish, the Things that move the needle in your world, great things happen.
Right? And it’s not by accident. So do you have a practice like that, or is there anything you do that if I followed you around day in and day out that I I would not miss that this Brett Golan does.
Well, it it’s fun that this is the first time we’ve we’ve talked this way.
Right? We didn’t meet before today other than on, you know, connecting on LinkedIn. But Some of those same practices that you’re talking about are critical to to my success as a leader and and to our success in our business.
So I I have a a daily habit of writing in a journal every single day. I have, now we didn’t we didn’t talk about this, but a year and a half ago, I hired an assistant.
Changed my life, by the way, to have an assistant. It’s incredible. And every single day, I’m meeting with her to hand off the things that would otherwise occupy my time.
Administrative things, some of them. But As she gets more and more capable and works with me longer you know, over over time, there’s more things that I’m able to give to her.
And the more that I can push those lower value activities to somebody else, the more time and space I have to spend on things like strategic looking time.
So, whether it’s journaling or learning how to to delegate As many responsibilities as possible, more and more time spent on higher level thinking and higher level value Value activities for my business helps a ton.
Yep. So an exercise I I like to do a lot, and I’m I’m curious If we can just kinda go on the spot here and and talk about this.
And is I like to talk about start doing, stop doing, continue doing. And and you this, again, this isn’t like a Brett Gilliland original.
You or me. Right? But so when you hear that is I mean, is that a good exercise As you think people do, start, stop, continue, other stuff that you can add on top of that. Yeah.
Yeah. I I love that exercise. Any useful tool that’s just is gonna help you see things more clearly and not just get complacent in what we’re doing right now. Right. Yep. Human beings are such creatures of habit and very forgetful.
Those 2 things are working against us. You add on top of that Just the natural chaos that that ensues when you run a business. And and it’s a recipe for It’s a recipe for doing what we did yesterday.
Right? Just just trying to keep the thing going that we did yesterday. And so if we wanna break out of that and create New possibilities or or respond to things that are happening in the market in a productive and healthy way.
We we have to get out of the day to day. So Start, stop, continue. I I love those periodic reviews. I’ll I’ll give you a a new tool here. It might maybe it’s not new to you, but another one. We call it the ICE tool.
So, as you look at the the set of activities that you are personally spending time on In a day, in a week, in a month, and if you can apply this little filter of ice to it, it might help you see things in a new way.
So I stands for I do it, but, really, I’m incompetent at it.
Nobody else would do it, so I still do it. But I’m incompetent at it. C stands for competent. Like, I’m good at this, but somebody else might be able to do it as good as or better than me.
And then the third is I’m I’m exceptional at this. Like, maybe this this falls in line with my unique genius or my My native my native genius or my my unique capabilities.
And so this, you think about, similar to a start, stop, continue sort of thinking. It’s where should I be start, stop, continue As it relates to my level of competence around an activity that I’ve been holding on to.
And is it time to give that to somebody else? Because I’m not Super competent. I’m I’m incompetent at it.
Or maybe I’m competent at it, but there’s somebody else who could do it for less money than than it’s costing the business by having me do it, versus the exceptional things where I can add unique value to the business.
So that’s really the filter you make a decision then. If something’s comes on your desk And, you gotta make a decision on it. You’re gonna look at it from the ICE tool.
I that’s one way to do it. Yeah. Another way is not just It comes to my desk, but maybe just reviewing how I’ve been spending my time. I’ll look back over the year. We’re getting to the end of the year.
You talked about planning as a team for 2024, and I like taking inventory of how I’ve been spending my time for the x you know, last 6 months, last year, And just really evaluating. Is that the best way for me to be spending my time?
Then I can apply a tool like ICE or just Generally, like, start, stop, continue, and say, should I be making a change as I go into this next period? What’s the next iteration For me in my role that I need to be creating.
Yep. Great. So, it’s obviously if it’s big enough to go on a T shirt, that means it means something to you. So I think it says the best leaders build the best businesses. So Yeah. Let’s talk about that.
Let’s talk about the mountain. What’s that mean to you? So, we picked up again, because of Jim Collins, we picked up this Everest Mission kind of idea. You know? He he likes to talk about BHAG, the big Gary, I think it’s goal.
And so I I just like the metaphor of we’re we’re going for that summit there. When we’re doing vision setting kinda stuff, We get real destination oriented with our mission.
So we don’t want a broad, open ended mission that never gets accomplished. We want to say, There’s the summit. There’s the peak of that next mountain we’re gonna go tackle together as a team.
What is it specifically? So I like a very what by when destination oriented mission, and that’s that’s what the the mountaintop is about. The purpose or that bigger meaning would be the guiding start.
Right? You never you never achieved that, but it gives you that directional clarity about, Are we are we doing something in line with why we’re put here? Like, does this really matter? Is this the purpose that we’re up to together?
But the mission is very destination oriented, and it it’s my belief that the best leaders build the best, This says businesses, but the best team, the best everything in that business to go achieve that mission together.
On the back of my shirt, it says The rest of the story, it says, and the best businesses win. And and so I want all of your listeners to be winning in life.
And those people who win, whether they’re talking about their individual effectiveness or if they’re business owners, How well they’re doing as a team, it it really does come down to leadership.
How well am I leading myself to go create that life that I want?
How well am I leading creating this business to go have the impact that we want to to have together as a team. And so to to me, it boils down to leadership. I know most business owners don’t think about that first.
They don’t go, I’m trying to double my sales, so I gotta go fix my leadership. They They usually think about marketing and sales and, you know, partnerships, and all those things are super important as part of the journey.
But Looking in the mirror, I think, you and I would agree that it it starts with who am I being as a leader? How can I improve as a leader?
Yep. Lead by example. So I was with, right over here about, 5 minutes away. We’ve got an air force base that makes some massive decisions in our world to protect our great country. And I was with the colonel today.
They talked about the 3 things he looks at in a in a Wait. Jesus. Clarity of mission, multiple processes on how to win that mission, and then we attack aggressively. And, I mean, you can just feel it, like, when he said it.
Right? You know, sometimes people just say things. And and he said we attack aggressively. And so when you hear me say that, clarity on mission, multiple process to win that mission, and we attack aggressively, what do you hear?
I hear clarity of vision like we talked about. I hear on the multiple processes, I hear really good strategy. Like Mhmm. It’s not it’s not one bet, and we cross our fingers and hope that that does it.
Like, we’ve got, you know, multiple processes that we know Probably one of those things would work, but we’re not gonna we’re not gonna let it to chance that just one of them might fail.
We’re gonna have Back up plans and then back up plans and then back up plans. So I hear that, and then I and then I hear attack aggressively is like, Okay.
Now let’s go execute the plan. Like, we’ve got a great plan. Let’s go make it happen. We’re not gonna sit around and watch that our great plan just does itself. Right?
So, that’s what I hear. I love it, though. It’s cool. I’ll see. Yeah. So let’s talk a little bit on the family and business side. So so what do you do to stay in the moment? Obviously, with 8 kids, and and now they’re getting older.
So it’s a little different than the diaper stages and, you know, feeding them and doing all that stuff. But but what have you done throughout your career, though, to to stay a family man, stay in the moment, enjoy the journey?
Because I know the chaos of 4 kids. I cannot imagine 8. What have you done, and what can you share with our listeners for those parents that are out there?
So one thing I’ve done, just very consistently is to get recentered every every morning. There’s lots of versions of this out there. I I don’t even know that I would prescribe this as the the way to do it.
But for me, I have to start my day Getting centered. And I I do that with prayer, meditation, some sort of scripture study or something that’s that’s going to Give me sustenance.
Right? Spiritually, mentally, it’s gonna help me. And then with the kids, We do those types of things as a family as well.
But this morning I mean, every school day, I’m out Helping with breakfast, helping prepare lunches. So, like, I’m involved with them and getting them off to have a good start with their day.
So we do a lot of family routines just like you have to have meeting rhythms and routines, even traditions In your business for that to, you know, build a great team, a great work workplace, we have a lot of routines and traditions to be able to make it work with, You know, it was 10 bodies.
Now as our older kids are moving away, it’s it’s fewer bodies, but the principles Rules apply. So, you know, we try to eat dinner together. When when 1 team member is is Doing something that we can all celebrate.
We wanna be involved in that. You know, when a family member’s off doing something in in sports or music or whatever they’re involved in, You know, I I go and support that. So how do I keep that sacred as a business owner?
And I and I’m not perfect at this. I wouldn’t I wouldn’t pretend to be. But when it’s when it’s dinner time at 5:30, sometime you know, it might be 6 o’clock at the latest, then I I’m I’m pretty good about compartmentalizing. Say, okay.
I’m done. The business no longer deserves to have my attention. And I’m a family man from 5:30, 6 o’clock until you know, as my kids got older, it’s 11:30, 12 o’clock, sometimes at night before Before they’re all wrapped up and done.
So a lot of family time, very intentional vacation time, rhythms, routines, traditions.
Yeah. I think that’s the toughest thing as the kids get older, and then it’s like, man, I’m I wanna go to bed before at least 2 of my kids, 3 of my kids are even, you know, thinking about going to bed.
I’m like my gosh. Is it keeping me up late out here? Yep. It’s great. What do you do to stay a student of the game, Brett? Well, I listen to podcasts. I read books. I go to conferences. I just went to a conference last week.
Thankfully, in in my line of work, there’s a good overlap between getting out and And talking with business owners and being in in places where they congregate are often where there’s learning going on.
So Yeah. Last week, I got to be at a conference where James Clear was speaking on a topic, atomic habits.
Yeah. And even with the master’s degree in organizational behavior and knowing Really, all the the principles that he taught, it’s fun to it’s fun to hear somebody else’s perspective on it and Yep.
In a way to simplify something that Maybe I’ve known in practice for a long time. It just keeps me sharp. So, yeah, those are ways that I try to stay sharp. Love it.
Last couple questions here, but fear is a question I always like to ask people on all these podcasts is how many of the fears That you have put in your mind have actually blown up to the magnitude you put them in your mind to be.
That that is a very insightful question because I think you know the answer at least 99% of the time is it’s never as big as we fear.
Just just as Our our brains are masterful at making A terrible. A story. Powerful and terrible. Yeah. Powerful and terrible. Big scary stories. I can’t do that. And and a lot of a lot of what holds us back is us for sure.
Yeah. Yep. What, what would you tell yourself? If you look at your career over the last, You know, whatever 20, 25 years, 30 years, what would what advice would you give, young Brett Gilliland?
Young Brett Gilliland. I would give myself the advice of not not thinking that there’s a certain path that you have to follow.
You know, I think growing up, it’s like you get to to to school, and then you go to college, and then you do this, and then you like, there was At least for me, it felt very much like there’s this conveyor belt of progression that everybody is supposed to hop on.
And it and what I love about Small business ownership and and those gutsy and crazy entrepreneurs out there, they said, no.
I’m I’m doing my own thing. And and I wish I had Figured that out sooner, for myself. I would tell my younger self, it’s not as scary as it sounds to go Make your own way. In fact Yeah. In a lot of ways, it’s it’s much more secure.
Instead of putting your own livelihood in somebody else’s hands, you kinda take that yourself. And While it’s scary, it’s also the most controlled situation. You know? Yep. Bet on yourself as we talked about. Last question for you.
I’ve never asked says, but it popped in my mind earlier today. So I put it on this piece of paper, and I said, what social media, do you like the best and why? I like LinkedIn the best just because I I play in this business world.
Yeah. You know, I I should probably like some of those more trendy ones better because then, you know, the word would get out there more if I did more TikToks Whatever.
But Yeah. Yeah. I like LinkedIn the best. I’ve I’m I’m engaged by the conversations, Meeting people like you, seeing great content that goes out there.
So, yeah, LinkedIn’s my favorite. Awesome. Well, I know you’ve got a community of 7 figures people go 1 to, 10,000,000. So where do our listeners find more of your community?
Where they find more of you? And, what can they do to connect? Thanks. Well, I can’t use your handle on LinkedIn because you already have it. So I I I picked 1 called built to last champ, the number 2, like Jim Collins. Right?
Built, the number 2, last Champ, this long, awkward handle for LinkedIn. That’s my LinkedIn. Our website is Grow With elite. com. So it’s all spelled out grow with elite. com, and we have a podcast called Elite Entrepreneur’s Podcast.
Awesome. We’ll put all that in the show notes. And, Brett, it’s been awesome, man. It’s been absolutely awesome having you. I was excited about today, And, it’s been a lot of fun.
And and the great thing is I just took a page of notes and a ton of takeaways, so it made it even better than I already knew it would be. It was fun. Thanks for having me on your show, Brett.
40 min
November 20, 2023 Visionary Wealth Advisors: The Origin Story
On this episode of the Circuit of Success Podcast, Brett Gilliland shares with you his appearance on the Diamond Consultants Podcast in 2021. Brett shares his journey and how Visionary Wealth Advisors was born. This includes his “Jerry Maguire-Style” resignation.
A Northwestern Mutual Advisor’s “Jerry Maguire-Style” Breakaway Story
Visionary Wealth Advisors: The Origin Story
The recurring theme of “incongruence” runs through the narratives of advisors who have transitioned between firms or models. The challenge arises when there is a mismatch between personal goals and those of the firm, making it difficult, if not impossible, to effectively serve clients and expand one’s business. Brett Gilliland, while serving as a Managing Director at Northwestern Mutual, experienced a noticeable lack of alignment with the firm’s goals as he achieved success. Juggling multiple roles, including financial advisor and recruiter, Brett increasingly felt restricted in his ability to provide unbiased advice and desired more autonomy in serving clients.
The episode delves into the drivers behind Visionary’s remarkable growth, highlighting the significant role relationships and referrals have played in their success. Brett encourages advisors and business owners to ask themselves a crucial question he posed to Tim before leaving Northwestern: “What keeps you here?”
Tune in for the valuable takeaways for both employee advisors and business owners.
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IT’S THIS FEELING OF MISALIGNMENT BETWEEN AN ADVISERS
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goals and that of their firm, which drives
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change more than any other motivator.
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Because when your vision is conflicting with that
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of your firm, it becomes difficult if not
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impossible
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to serve your clients and grow your business.
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As a managing director at Northwestern Mutual,
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Brett Gilliland found that the lack of alignment
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could not be more apparent nor more limiting.
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In his role, He wore multiple hats from
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serving as a financial advisor, plus a recruiter
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with the responsibility
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for the training and development of novice advisors.
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But as he became more successful,
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he also became less satisfied,
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and the feeling of being at odds with
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the goals Northwestern
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became more apparent.
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He wanted greater agency over how he served
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clients.
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He wanted to be able to freely market.
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He wanted to give unbiased
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unconflicted
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advice without feeling pigeonholed into selling insurance.
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And ultimately, as he put it, He wanted
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to play in a different sandbox.
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So after thirteen years with Northwestern,
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he decided it was time to build something
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that was more aligned with his vision.
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And in March of two thousand fourteen,
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RIA firm visionary wealth advisors was born.
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But it’s his Jerry Maguire exit story that’s
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really compelling.
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And a true testament
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to the respect and trust he developed with
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his team at Northwestern.
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Today, visionary manages some one point eight billion
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in assets and has thirty advisors on the
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team.
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In this episode, Brett talks with Lewis Diamond
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sharing details about the motivation behind his move.
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His unique perspective as a managing director at
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Northwestern
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how he is able to fully realize his
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vision as an independent business owner, and of
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course,
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shares a resignation
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story unlike any other. Plus much more. So
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let’s get to it.
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Brett, thanks
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so much joining us today.
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Absolutely. It’s good to be with you. Very
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good. Why don’t you tell us about yourself
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and how you got started in the business?
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Yeah. I went to Eastern Illinois University and
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right out of college. I decided I wanted
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to be in the financial planning business. So
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back then, this was the early two thousand,
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I guess, two thousand Gilliland they were called
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stock brokers back then. And and that’s what
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I wanted to do. I knew that right
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out of college, and it really goes back
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to when I was about fifteen years old,
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my My cousin Dean was actually a stockbroker.
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And I drove the gold BMW. You had
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the speakers in the headrest, and that was
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pretty cool. Right? When you’re fifteen years old,
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and so I thought for sure. I wanted
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to do that. And so I went to
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a job fair and and found the financial
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planning stockbroker Gilliland here we are almost twenty
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years later.
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Perfect. And your your most recent employment before
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launching your own RIA was as the Madington
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director at Northwestern Mutual. Can you talk a
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little bit about that role in your day
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to day? Because my understanding is you were
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in a full time advisor. You had some
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other duties and responsibilities as well. Absolutely. So
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I was a managing director at my previous
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firm, and we were responsible for recruiting. That’s
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a big recruiting world where I was at
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previously. And so we were in charge of
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recruiting advisors to what we call our district
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office. I was in Edwardsville, Illinois. We still
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have an office there to this day, but
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that’s what I was doing. I was recruiting
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advisors into this business. We also had a
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college internship program where we would have anywhere
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from twenty to twenty five interns. I had
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a team of people that will whether it
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was a college unit or field directors or
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mentors,
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recruiters, a great team of people around me,
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but that’s what we had to do. We
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had to go out and recruit new advisors
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to the firm. These weren’t, like, industry folks.
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These were people were brand new, just like
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myself, right out of college, didn’t have any
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experience. So there was tons of recruiting, training,
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development,
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mentor meetings, one off drive by meetings, maybe
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being about how do you prospect? How do
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you make more phone calls? How do you
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find more prospects? So on and so forth.
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But then also was a financial advisor and
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did that at a high level as well.
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So it was one of the things I
00:04:19.000 –> 00:04:20.000
really enjoyed because
00:04:20.000 –> 00:04:23.000
I was doing multiple things throughout the day
00:04:23.000 –> 00:04:24.000
wearing lots of different hats.
00:04:25.000 –> 00:04:28.000
Excellent. It sounds like the Northwestern model of
00:04:28.000 –> 00:04:30.000
recruiting, it’s kinda like churn and burn. You’re
00:04:30.000 –> 00:04:33.000
expecting that a lot of folks aren’t gonna
00:04:33.000 –> 00:04:35.000
make it through the program. So I’m curious
00:04:35.000 –> 00:04:37.000
what separated the advisors
00:04:37.000 –> 00:04:39.000
that ultimately made it and went on to
00:04:39.000 –> 00:04:42.000
have successful careers. Yeah. I mean, there’s so
00:04:42.000 –> 00:04:43.000
many different things we’ve looked at over the
00:04:43.000 –> 00:04:45.000
years. And so when I at the success
00:04:45.000 –> 00:04:47.000
that we had from a recruiting standpoint.
00:04:47.000 –> 00:04:49.000
I learned that they grew up with what
00:04:49.000 –> 00:04:50.000
I would call. I’m using air quotes here
00:04:50.000 –> 00:04:52.000
since you can’t see me, but a normal
00:04:52.000 –> 00:04:54.000
background. And what I mean by that is
00:04:54.000 –> 00:04:57.000
they were blessed with a great family life.
00:04:57.000 –> 00:05:00.000
They had support at home, whether that was
00:05:00.000 –> 00:05:02.000
growing up as a child, but also in
00:05:02.000 –> 00:05:05.000
their adult life. And what, again, what I
00:05:05.000 –> 00:05:07.000
just call this normal life, which is maybe
00:05:07.000 –> 00:05:08.000
that’s fair. Maybe it’s not fair, but it
00:05:08.000 –> 00:05:10.000
it just it it seemed like they had
00:05:10.000 –> 00:05:12.000
a lot of support around them from loved
00:05:12.000 –> 00:05:14.000
ones. And I think that’s so important. This
00:05:14.000 –> 00:05:17.000
business can be very lonely, especially when you’re
00:05:17.000 –> 00:05:19.000
twenty three, twenty two, twenty four years old,
00:05:19.000 –> 00:05:21.000
and you’re running around trying to fry prospects,
00:05:21.000 –> 00:05:23.000
and it was completely different. The ones that
00:05:23.000 –> 00:05:25.000
we found that were successful, a lot of
00:05:25.000 –> 00:05:27.000
them were career changers. We had a testing
00:05:27.000 –> 00:05:29.000
program. If they did a certain test on
00:05:29.000 –> 00:05:32.000
this personality, we found that did well, but
00:05:32.000 –> 00:05:34.000
I also saw an athletic background. I mean,
00:05:34.000 –> 00:05:36.000
at one time, we had, I think it
00:05:36.000 –> 00:05:38.000
was sixteen advisors that I had recruited that
00:05:38.000 –> 00:05:39.000
were all college athletes.
00:05:40.000 –> 00:05:42.000
And that doesn’t mean you’re gonna only be
00:05:42.000 –> 00:05:44.000
successful if you’re a college athlete, but for
00:05:44.000 –> 00:05:46.000
us, that’s what we found where the college
00:05:46.000 –> 00:05:47.000
athletes
00:05:47.000 –> 00:05:50.000
were working in that environment. Right? Because you
00:05:50.000 –> 00:05:51.000
had to go out and make a name
00:05:51.000 –> 00:05:52.000
for yourself. You had to go out and
00:05:52.000 –> 00:05:54.000
prospect. You had to be driven. You had
00:05:54.000 –> 00:05:56.000
to go out and make forty or fifty
00:05:56.000 –> 00:05:58.000
or sixty phone calls every single day, and
00:05:58.000 –> 00:06:00.000
you had to get twenty five referrals a
00:06:00.000 –> 00:06:02.000
week. And you all these activity drivers that
00:06:02.000 –> 00:06:04.000
you had to do that quite frankly, I
00:06:04.000 –> 00:06:06.000
probably wouldn’t be in this business if it
00:06:06.000 –> 00:06:07.000
wasn’t for those things when I was in
00:06:07.000 –> 00:06:09.000
my early twenties, but I had to do
00:06:09.000 –> 00:06:11.000
it. And I found the people that were
00:06:12.000 –> 00:06:15.000
competitive and wanted to be great in things
00:06:15.000 –> 00:06:16.000
at life, those were the ones that were
00:06:16.000 –> 00:06:17.000
the most successful.
00:06:18.000 –> 00:06:19.000
Very interesting. And, I mean, so much of
00:06:19.000 –> 00:06:20.000
the industry’s
00:06:21.000 –> 00:06:23.000
attention. I know our whole business,
00:06:23.000 –> 00:06:27.000
not to mention, is focused on recruiting experienced
00:06:27.000 –> 00:06:30.000
advisors, because obviously, they come with clients, they
00:06:30.000 –> 00:06:32.000
can hit the ground running, already pre trained.
00:06:32.000 –> 00:06:34.000
Do you have a viewpoint though on if
00:06:34.000 –> 00:06:36.000
someone is building a firm from the ground
00:06:36.000 –> 00:06:38.000
up, what do you think is a better
00:06:38.000 –> 00:06:41.000
approach? Is it bringing on experienced folks with
00:06:41.000 –> 00:06:43.000
books or kinda what you did at Northwestern,
00:06:43.000 –> 00:06:46.000
which was career changers, ex athletes, and entry
00:06:46.000 –> 00:06:47.000
level advisors
00:06:48.000 –> 00:06:50.000
Yeah. I think it’s a great question. And
00:06:50.000 –> 00:06:52.000
and what we did was and I don’t
00:06:52.000 –> 00:06:53.000
know if necessarily we meant to do this,
00:06:53.000 –> 00:06:55.000
and I say we, Tim Hammond, my business
00:06:55.000 –> 00:06:58.000
partner who co founded visionary wealth advisors with
00:06:58.000 –> 00:07:00.000
me when we started visionary. So he was
00:07:00.000 –> 00:07:02.000
just a and I said just, meaning he
00:07:02.000 –> 00:07:05.000
was a wealth management advisor. He was doing
00:07:05.000 –> 00:07:07.000
fee based financial planning at Northwestern,
00:07:07.000 –> 00:07:11.000
and I was doing the recruiting, developing, training,
00:07:11.000 –> 00:07:13.000
and still being a financial advisor as well.
00:07:13.000 –> 00:07:15.000
And so the of us came together
00:07:15.000 –> 00:07:18.000
and almost immediately thought we could do this
00:07:18.000 –> 00:07:20.000
differently. I always say the sandbox was I
00:07:20.000 –> 00:07:22.000
was playing in was let’s just say a
00:07:22.000 –> 00:07:24.000
size of a piece of paper and I
00:07:24.000 –> 00:07:25.000
wanted it to be the size of the
00:07:25.000 –> 00:07:26.000
football field.
00:07:27.000 –> 00:07:29.000
And that’s what I saw in the RIA
00:07:29.000 –> 00:07:31.000
space that was out there, that the sky
00:07:31.000 –> 00:07:33.000
is the limit, and you can do so
00:07:33.000 –> 00:07:35.000
much for your clients that I couldn’t do
00:07:35.000 –> 00:07:37.000
at that time at that role. And we
00:07:37.000 –> 00:07:40.000
immediately went to no longer doing any career
00:07:40.000 –> 00:07:40.000
changers
00:07:41.000 –> 00:07:41.000
no inexperienced
00:07:42.000 –> 00:07:44.000
people. We just, like, literally cold turkey. I
00:07:44.000 –> 00:07:46.000
just went to the starting to recruit experienced
00:07:46.000 –> 00:07:48.000
advisors. And
00:07:48.000 –> 00:07:50.000
what we found was that people were looking
00:07:50.000 –> 00:07:51.000
for a platform
00:07:52.000 –> 00:07:53.000
where they could go
00:07:53.000 –> 00:07:55.000
and have some independence,
00:07:55.000 –> 00:07:57.000
but also be interdependent.
00:07:57.000 –> 00:08:00.000
And so the advisors that we have now
00:08:00.000 –> 00:08:02.000
are just doing so well because there is
00:08:02.000 –> 00:08:05.000
an interdependent relationship with us with visionary aim
00:08:05.000 –> 00:08:06.000
with those advisors. They own their own book
00:08:06.000 –> 00:08:09.000
of business. They own their clients, but at
00:08:09.000 –> 00:08:11.000
the same time, they’re not in business by
00:08:11.000 –> 00:08:13.000
themselves. Right? They’re for themselves, but not by
00:08:13.000 –> 00:08:15.000
themselves. Gilliland we just found that there was
00:08:15.000 –> 00:08:16.000
a really a big market out there for
00:08:16.000 –> 00:08:19.000
experienced advisors that want that type of platform.
00:08:20.000 –> 00:08:21.000
Understood.
00:08:21.000 –> 00:08:23.000
And let’s go back to when you’re still
00:08:23.000 –> 00:08:25.000
at Northwestern. Of course, you could have just
00:08:25.000 –> 00:08:28.000
stayed at the firm. You sound like you’re
00:08:28.000 –> 00:08:30.000
a successful adviser in your own right. Kept
00:08:30.000 –> 00:08:32.000
recruiting, kept leveraging the infrastructure.
00:08:33.000 –> 00:08:36.000
But instead, you opted to transition to form
00:08:36.000 –> 00:08:38.000
your own RA firm back in twenty fourteen.
00:08:38.000 –> 00:08:40.000
Can you elaborate on what some of your
00:08:40.000 –> 00:08:43.000
frustrations were and maybe what you felt you
00:08:43.000 –> 00:08:45.000
couldn’t do for your clients there? For me,
00:08:45.000 –> 00:08:46.000
it was as I was becoming more and
00:08:46.000 –> 00:08:49.000
more successful, I was becoming less satisfied with
00:08:49.000 –> 00:08:51.000
my career. And really what did it for
00:08:51.000 –> 00:08:53.000
me is I was fortunate enough to make
00:08:53.000 –> 00:08:56.000
what they call forum inside of Northwestern Mutual,
00:08:56.000 –> 00:08:57.000
which is, I think it’s, I don’t know,
00:08:57.000 –> 00:08:59.000
top two hundred and fifty advisors, let’s call
00:08:59.000 –> 00:09:02.000
it. And I remember not being real, real
00:09:02.000 –> 00:09:03.000
happy, even though I just had a phenomenal
00:09:03.000 –> 00:09:05.000
year with production. We had just led the
00:09:05.000 –> 00:09:07.000
company in recruiting for managing directors.
00:09:07.000 –> 00:09:09.000
So there was a lot of things going
00:09:09.000 –> 00:09:11.000
well, but for some reason, I still wasn’t
00:09:11.000 –> 00:09:13.000
satisfied. And I didn’t know what that was.
00:09:13.000 –> 00:09:16.000
And so I just kept kinda looking internal
00:09:16.000 –> 00:09:19.000
for me, and I wanted that entrepreneurial spirit.
00:09:19.000 –> 00:09:20.000
Right? I wanted to go out and build
00:09:20.000 –> 00:09:22.000
something. I wanted to go out and build
00:09:22.000 –> 00:09:23.000
a brand. I wanted to build something
00:09:24.000 –> 00:09:27.000
that our clients were excited about and proud
00:09:27.000 –> 00:09:29.000
of and and who they were working with.
00:09:29.000 –> 00:09:30.000
And I say all this, and there is
00:09:30.000 –> 00:09:32.000
a ton of great people at Northwestern Mutual.
00:09:32.000 –> 00:09:35.000
I still have friends there to this day.
00:09:35.000 –> 00:09:37.000
They’re doing great work for people. So it
00:09:37.000 –> 00:09:39.000
wasn’t necessarily that. It was just more for
00:09:39.000 –> 00:09:42.000
me was I wanted to do something more.
00:09:42.000 –> 00:09:45.000
I wanted to, again, to build something. And
00:09:45.000 –> 00:09:47.000
I think there we were building a nice
00:09:47.000 –> 00:09:49.000
income, but we weren’t building an asset. We
00:09:49.000 –> 00:09:52.000
weren’t really building a firm. Cause you’re doing
00:09:52.000 –> 00:09:54.000
it for the mothership, if you will. And
00:09:54.000 –> 00:09:55.000
for me, it just became again that I
00:09:55.000 –> 00:09:58.000
wanted to play in a different sandbox. And
00:09:58.000 –> 00:10:00.000
whether it’s to have a podcast or do
00:10:00.000 –> 00:10:02.000
some things that we do now that you
00:10:02.000 –> 00:10:05.000
just couldn’t do there in comprehensive financial planning
00:10:05.000 –> 00:10:08.000
where you’re not biased on either a product
00:10:08.000 –> 00:10:10.000
or what avenue they need to go down
00:10:10.000 –> 00:10:12.000
as a client. We wanted to be unbiased
00:10:12.000 –> 00:10:14.000
and have this independent
00:10:14.000 –> 00:10:15.000
firm
00:10:15.000 –> 00:10:17.000
that we could just say, this is how
00:10:17.000 –> 00:10:19.000
we’re going to serve clients going forward.
00:10:19.000 –> 00:10:21.000
Definitely. And did being in more of a
00:10:21.000 –> 00:10:24.000
managerial role kinda seeing how the sausage was
00:10:24.000 –> 00:10:27.000
made, did that change your vantage point on
00:10:27.000 –> 00:10:29.000
and I guess your motivation to leave? And
00:10:29.000 –> 00:10:31.000
did you get a better look or a
00:10:31.000 –> 00:10:33.000
different look on what was slowing or limiting
00:10:33.000 –> 00:10:36.000
down the advisors that were under your tutelage?
00:10:37.000 –> 00:10:39.000
Yeah. But I I think too is and
00:10:39.000 –> 00:10:41.000
I can’t say this for the previous firm
00:10:41.000 –> 00:10:43.000
in every city around the country, obviously. And
00:10:43.000 –> 00:10:45.000
again, there’s great people everywhere. But for us,
00:10:45.000 –> 00:10:48.000
it was the stereotype as well as when
00:10:48.000 –> 00:10:50.000
I threw that business card down,
00:10:50.000 –> 00:10:52.000
people would automatically just, oh, I’m good. I
00:10:52.000 –> 00:10:55.000
don’t need insurance. And I got so tired
00:10:55.000 –> 00:10:57.000
for twelve and a half years of doing
00:10:57.000 –> 00:10:59.000
that, that’s that really drained on me over
00:10:59.000 –> 00:11:01.000
the years. And it got to a point
00:11:01.000 –> 00:11:03.000
where that’s not what I’m about. It’s not
00:11:03.000 –> 00:11:05.000
coming and just trying to sell you insurance.
00:11:05.000 –> 00:11:06.000
Is is insurance, certainly part of a financial
00:11:06.000 –> 00:11:08.000
plan. Of course, it is. I think we
00:11:08.000 –> 00:11:10.000
all know that. People that are doing comprehensive
00:11:10.000 –> 00:11:12.000
wealth management planning, but it’s not the only
00:11:12.000 –> 00:11:14.000
piece. Right? And I think that’s where I
00:11:14.000 –> 00:11:15.000
think we got pigeonholed
00:11:16.000 –> 00:11:18.000
into thinking you’re just the insurance person.
00:11:19.000 –> 00:11:22.000
And that feeling wasn’t great, again, even though
00:11:22.000 –> 00:11:24.000
it can have some good products, it wasn’t
00:11:24.000 –> 00:11:26.000
great. And so we wanted more. And we
00:11:26.000 –> 00:11:27.000
wanted to go out, and I keep saying
00:11:27.000 –> 00:11:29.000
comprehensive financial planning, but that’s what we wanted
00:11:29.000 –> 00:11:32.000
to do and where we weren’t pigeonholed into
00:11:32.000 –> 00:11:34.000
this corner of you’re just that sales guy.
00:11:34.000 –> 00:11:36.000
It was more about the relationship and the
00:11:36.000 –> 00:11:38.000
impact we’re having on the community and the
00:11:38.000 –> 00:11:41.000
impact we’re having on those clients’ lives on
00:11:41.000 –> 00:11:43.000
more ways than just a life insurance or
00:11:43.000 –> 00:11:44.000
a an investment
00:11:44.000 –> 00:11:46.000
and what have you, there’s more to it
00:11:46.000 –> 00:11:48.000
than that. And I think that’s really what
00:11:48.000 –> 00:11:50.000
we’re focused on is the whole person here
00:11:50.000 –> 00:11:52.000
visionary is is building that with the right
00:11:52.000 –> 00:11:54.000
people. I don’t know if we can cuss
00:11:54.000 –> 00:11:55.000
on here, Lewis, but we call it the
00:11:55.000 –> 00:11:57.000
no a hole rule. Right? So no a
00:11:57.000 –> 00:12:00.000
hole is the recruit criteria here. And and
00:12:00.000 –> 00:12:02.000
that’s the first step is making sure that
00:12:02.000 –> 00:12:04.000
we wanna be around you, you wanna be
00:12:04.000 –> 00:12:05.000
around us, and that we’re gonna be a
00:12:05.000 –> 00:12:07.000
good fit. And I found that you had
00:12:07.000 –> 00:12:10.000
you had more control over that as I
00:12:10.000 –> 00:12:12.000
was researching what this RIA thing was
00:12:12.000 –> 00:12:14.000
is I had control over that versus just
00:12:14.000 –> 00:12:17.000
having to recruit quite frankly, a bunch of
00:12:17.000 –> 00:12:19.000
kids like me. Right? Twenty two years old,
00:12:19.000 –> 00:12:20.000
right out of college. And I always joked
00:12:20.000 –> 00:12:22.000
that I couldn’t even spell investments or insurance
00:12:22.000 –> 00:12:24.000
when I started, but it was, like, I
00:12:24.000 –> 00:12:28.000
wanna do more with higher more sophisticated people
00:12:28.000 –> 00:12:30.000
because that’s what the community wants. Right? That’s
00:12:30.000 –> 00:12:32.000
what they want in their financial advisor. And
00:12:32.000 –> 00:12:34.000
I just, quite frankly, I always say my
00:12:34.000 –> 00:12:35.000
gray hair and the wrinkles aren’t from four
00:12:35.000 –> 00:12:38.000
kids. It’s from having to recruit people that
00:12:38.000 –> 00:12:40.000
hopefully one or two out of ten of
00:12:40.000 –> 00:12:41.000
those people would make it long term in
00:12:41.000 –> 00:12:43.000
the business. And I just couldn’t do that
00:12:43.000 –> 00:12:45.000
any longer. Yeah. Definitely. And I think what
00:12:45.000 –> 00:12:46.000
you’re mentioning around
00:12:47.000 –> 00:12:49.000
feeling like you and your practice were kind
00:12:49.000 –> 00:12:51.000
of at odds with the mantra or the
00:12:51.000 –> 00:12:54.000
reputation of Northwestern is the term incongruence.
00:12:54.000 –> 00:12:57.000
We hear it often from advisors at many
00:12:57.000 –> 00:12:59.000
different types of firms, whether they’re at a
00:12:59.000 –> 00:13:02.000
bank dominated firm saying I’m not a banker.
00:13:02.000 –> 00:13:04.000
I like recommending bank products where it makes
00:13:04.000 –> 00:13:07.000
sense similar to how you probably enjoy recommending
00:13:07.000 –> 00:13:10.000
insurance products where it makes sense, but you
00:13:10.000 –> 00:13:11.000
don’t want that to be the driving force.
00:13:11.000 –> 00:13:14.000
If you have a vision that’s different from
00:13:15.000 –> 00:13:17.000
what the firm really wants you to be,
00:13:17.000 –> 00:13:20.000
then many advisors look at it as a
00:13:20.000 –> 00:13:22.000
means to kind of escape that box and
00:13:22.000 –> 00:13:25.000
build their own. So that’s perfect pivot point
00:13:25.000 –> 00:13:27.000
here. Before we get to what you coined
00:13:27.000 –> 00:13:30.000
your Jerry Maguire style moment, kind of a
00:13:30.000 –> 00:13:31.000
teaser for what to come. And let’s talk
00:13:31.000 –> 00:13:32.000
first about
00:13:33.000 –> 00:13:36.000
your due diligence process back probably twenty 12:20
00:13:36.000 –> 00:13:39.000
thirteen before launching the firm. So you’ve you
00:13:39.000 –> 00:13:43.000
founded visionary wealth advisors as a RA hybrid,
00:13:43.000 –> 00:13:45.000
but what else did you look at before
00:13:45.000 –> 00:13:47.000
settling on this route It’s actually amazing because
00:13:47.000 –> 00:13:49.000
I didn’t really look at too many things.
00:13:49.000 –> 00:13:51.000
I I would literally go in my office.
00:13:51.000 –> 00:13:52.000
I can picture it to this day as
00:13:52.000 –> 00:13:54.000
clear as can be, and and I would
00:13:54.000 –> 00:13:56.000
look up independence, and I would type in
00:13:56.000 –> 00:13:58.000
the financial independence and different things. I knew
00:13:58.000 –> 00:14:00.000
I wanted to stay in this industry. I
00:14:00.000 –> 00:14:02.000
love what we get to do every day.
00:14:02.000 –> 00:14:03.000
I love that we get to help people
00:14:03.000 –> 00:14:05.000
achieve a future greater than their past. That’s
00:14:05.000 –> 00:14:07.000
our firm’s mission statement.
00:14:07.000 –> 00:14:09.000
And that is so critically important for me,
00:14:09.000 –> 00:14:11.000
for our advisors, and for the things that
00:14:11.000 –> 00:14:13.000
we do for people, but it was just
00:14:13.000 –> 00:14:14.000
one of those things that I kept coming
00:14:14.000 –> 00:14:16.000
back to this independent
00:14:16.000 –> 00:14:19.000
RIA registered investment adviser and growing up in
00:14:19.000 –> 00:14:21.000
the insurance Northwestern mutual world. I didn’t know
00:14:21.000 –> 00:14:24.000
even know what an RIA was. But everything
00:14:24.000 –> 00:14:26.000
I read, I’m like, I want that.
00:14:27.000 –> 00:14:28.000
And I kept reading it. And I kept
00:14:28.000 –> 00:14:30.000
studying it. And when I say kept, I
00:14:30.000 –> 00:14:32.000
mean, this went on from November of two
00:14:32.000 –> 00:14:35.000
thousand thirteen to January of two thousand fourteen.
00:14:35.000 –> 00:14:37.000
So this was about a month and a
00:14:37.000 –> 00:14:39.000
half I can’t even tell you how much
00:14:39.000 –> 00:14:41.000
stuff I read on an RIA and what
00:14:41.000 –> 00:14:43.000
it meant. I scheduled a meeting with one
00:14:43.000 –> 00:14:44.000
of our custodians,
00:14:44.000 –> 00:14:46.000
and they came to Saint Louis, and I
00:14:46.000 –> 00:14:48.000
went and had a meeting with them and
00:14:48.000 –> 00:14:49.000
that was with Tim, my business partner. And
00:14:49.000 –> 00:14:51.000
it was just one of those things when
00:14:51.000 –> 00:14:53.000
I called Tim, and I said, Hey, what
00:14:53.000 –> 00:14:54.000
keeps you here at Northwestern?
00:14:54.000 –> 00:14:56.000
I was hopeful that he was gonna give
00:14:56.000 –> 00:14:58.000
me this long drawn out reason and why
00:14:58.000 –> 00:15:00.000
it was the greatest place on earth. And
00:15:00.000 –> 00:15:02.000
what happened was four and a half hours
00:15:02.000 –> 00:15:04.000
later we got off the telephone.
00:15:04.000 –> 00:15:06.000
From one phone call four and a half
00:15:06.000 –> 00:15:08.000
hours later in January of two thousand fourteen,
00:15:08.000 –> 00:15:09.000
early January
00:15:09.000 –> 00:15:10.000
and said,
00:15:10.000 –> 00:15:12.000
okay. I can’t do this without you. You
00:15:12.000 –> 00:15:15.000
can’t do this without me. Let’s go build
00:15:15.000 –> 00:15:18.000
something great. And literally fast forward, not even
00:15:18.000 –> 00:15:21.000
ninety days later, visionary Wealth Advisors was started.
00:15:21.000 –> 00:15:24.000
It was an incredible ninety days, and it
00:15:24.000 –> 00:15:26.000
was a lot of fun and still a
00:15:26.000 –> 00:15:27.000
lot of fun to this day. And I
00:15:27.000 –> 00:15:29.000
just looked back at that and I’m just
00:15:29.000 –> 00:15:30.000
I’m glad we took the risk to make
00:15:30.000 –> 00:15:31.000
the jump.
00:15:36.000 –> 00:15:37.000
The ecosystem,
00:15:38.000 –> 00:15:40.000
seven, eight years ago, is very different than
00:15:40.000 –> 00:15:43.000
today. But did you consider either plugging into
00:15:43.000 –> 00:15:45.000
an existing infrastructure
00:15:45.000 –> 00:15:48.000
or hiring more of a platform or service
00:15:48.000 –> 00:15:48.000
provider?
00:15:49.000 –> 00:15:50.000
Didn’t know, did not even look at those
00:15:50.000 –> 00:15:53.000
opportunities at all, not one of them. I
00:15:53.000 –> 00:15:54.000
mean, it was just one of those things
00:15:54.000 –> 00:15:56.000
we knew early on. We wanted to build
00:15:56.000 –> 00:15:56.000
something.
00:15:57.000 –> 00:15:59.000
And we just went all in, kinda burned
00:15:59.000 –> 00:16:01.000
the ships. It’s let’s go. Let’s make it
00:16:01.000 –> 00:16:03.000
happen, and we did. And, like I said,
00:16:03.000 –> 00:16:05.000
met with our custodians, and
00:16:05.000 –> 00:16:08.000
hired our, you know, legal counsel firm and
00:16:08.000 –> 00:16:10.000
and to help us build the RIA and
00:16:10.000 –> 00:16:12.000
then literally just the way it went. Amazing.
00:16:13.000 –> 00:16:14.000
Okay. So this is the, I think, the
00:16:14.000 –> 00:16:16.000
exciting part of the interview. You told me
00:16:16.000 –> 00:16:18.000
that this story when we were preparing for
00:16:18.000 –> 00:16:21.000
this interview. I wanna hear the story in
00:16:21.000 –> 00:16:23.000
as much details you can share. About resignation
00:16:24.000 –> 00:16:26.000
day. You coined it your Jerry Maguire style
00:16:26.000 –> 00:16:28.000
moment, and I think it’s such a unique
00:16:28.000 –> 00:16:31.000
story. It’s very different than how I think
00:16:31.000 –> 00:16:34.000
many folks would approach this, but it’s instructive,
00:16:34.000 –> 00:16:36.000
and I think demonstrates your conviction
00:16:37.000 –> 00:16:38.000
for why this was the right move for
00:16:38.000 –> 00:16:40.000
you. Yeah. It’s one of those days I
00:16:40.000 –> 00:16:41.000
wish I would have just been able to
00:16:41.000 –> 00:16:44.000
film somehow. Like, had this camera above my
00:16:44.000 –> 00:16:46.000
head or something. It’s just the emotions that
00:16:46.000 –> 00:16:47.000
went into it. I remember it was March
00:16:47.000 –> 00:16:50.000
twenty fourth two thousand fourteen. It was a
00:16:50.000 –> 00:16:53.000
kind of a dreary Monday in Saint Louis
00:16:53.000 –> 00:16:56.000
and, our managing partner was in Saint Louis.
00:16:56.000 –> 00:16:58.000
I was about thirty minutes outside of it.
00:16:58.000 –> 00:17:00.000
And I remember texting him that morning and
00:17:00.000 –> 00:17:03.000
just saying, hey, I’m gonna swing by your
00:17:03.000 –> 00:17:05.000
office. I can’t remember. Seven or 07:30. Do
00:17:05.000 –> 00:17:06.000
you have a couple minutes? And he said,
00:17:06.000 –> 00:17:08.000
is everything okay? And I said, but with
00:17:08.000 –> 00:17:10.000
my health and with my family, everything is
00:17:10.000 –> 00:17:12.000
okay. And that was kind of the end
00:17:12.000 –> 00:17:13.000
of it. What you don’t know about me,
00:17:13.000 –> 00:17:15.000
Louis, I’m a very nervous person. I grew
00:17:15.000 –> 00:17:17.000
up very anxious, and I call it my
00:17:17.000 –> 00:17:20.000
comfort zone callus, calluses on your hands from
00:17:20.000 –> 00:17:21.000
playing golf or working in the yard or
00:17:21.000 –> 00:17:23.000
doing whatever you’re doing. And and I think
00:17:23.000 –> 00:17:26.000
that we as humans can get these calluses
00:17:26.000 –> 00:17:27.000
around our comfort zone, and we don’t wanna
00:17:27.000 –> 00:17:30.000
break through those. And I’ve tried now for
00:17:30.000 –> 00:17:32.000
twenty years to constantly break out of my
00:17:32.000 –> 00:17:34.000
comfort zone, and this was one of those
00:17:34.000 –> 00:17:36.000
defining moments. It was arguably one of the
00:17:36.000 –> 00:17:39.000
biggest decisions, professionally, if not probably the biggest
00:17:39.000 –> 00:17:41.000
decision, actually, that I’ve ever made in my
00:17:41.000 –> 00:17:42.000
life. And
00:17:43.000 –> 00:17:45.000
so I went and resigned, and it was
00:17:45.000 –> 00:17:47.000
splashing water on my face in the bathroom
00:17:47.000 –> 00:17:49.000
before I went in there. I was so
00:17:49.000 –> 00:17:50.000
nervous, and I walked down. Because again, I
00:17:50.000 –> 00:17:52.000
was doing what you needed to do. And
00:17:52.000 –> 00:17:54.000
I was on the board for the managing
00:17:54.000 –> 00:17:57.000
directors at their home office national headquarters. And
00:17:57.000 –> 00:17:58.000
I was doing the things that you needed
00:17:58.000 –> 00:18:00.000
to do to be successful, but I just
00:18:00.000 –> 00:18:01.000
wasn’t happy. And I thought at the time,
00:18:01.000 –> 00:18:03.000
I think I was thirty six, thirty seven,
00:18:03.000 –> 00:18:05.000
I didn’t wanna do that the rest of
00:18:05.000 –> 00:18:07.000
my life, and I needed to take this
00:18:07.000 –> 00:18:09.000
risk. And this risk was I had twenty
00:18:10.000 –> 00:18:12.000
three, twenty four advisors in my district office,
00:18:13.000 –> 00:18:14.000
I owned the building that I was in.
00:18:14.000 –> 00:18:16.000
So I had my own lease because Northwestern
00:18:16.000 –> 00:18:18.000
doesn’t sign the lease. At least they didn’t
00:18:18.000 –> 00:18:19.000
at that time. I had my own lease
00:18:19.000 –> 00:18:22.000
in my own building. And all these people,
00:18:22.000 –> 00:18:24.000
right, that worked with us. So it was
00:18:24.000 –> 00:18:26.000
very scary. It was a very big risk.
00:18:26.000 –> 00:18:28.000
And I went in. I resigned, and he
00:18:28.000 –> 00:18:29.000
said, what would you like to do? And
00:18:29.000 –> 00:18:30.000
I said, well, I feel like I would
00:18:30.000 –> 00:18:32.000
to go at least tell everybody in our
00:18:32.000 –> 00:18:34.000
office that I’m leaving. I’m resigning. I feel
00:18:34.000 –> 00:18:36.000
like I owe that to them. I’ve recruited
00:18:36.000 –> 00:18:38.000
and trained and developed every single one of
00:18:38.000 –> 00:18:41.000
these people, and I’ve spent countless hours and
00:18:41.000 –> 00:18:42.000
blood sweat and tears with these folks. I
00:18:42.000 –> 00:18:44.000
owe it to them. And he said, okay.
00:18:44.000 –> 00:18:46.000
I can be there at 11:30.
00:18:46.000 –> 00:18:47.000
So I went and kinda just sat in
00:18:47.000 –> 00:18:49.000
my car. For a couple hours and just
00:18:49.000 –> 00:18:52.000
what just happened kinda moment and then went
00:18:52.000 –> 00:18:54.000
into my own district office and had everybody
00:18:54.000 –> 00:18:56.000
in the firm there. I was able to
00:18:56.000 –> 00:18:58.000
tell them what I did and that I
00:18:58.000 –> 00:19:00.000
was leaving and that I started this place
00:19:00.000 –> 00:19:02.000
called visionary wealth advisors
00:19:02.000 –> 00:19:04.000
named probably like a week before that because
00:19:04.000 –> 00:19:07.000
everything was happening so quickly. So long story
00:19:07.000 –> 00:19:08.000
short, that was about an hour and twenty
00:19:08.000 –> 00:19:10.000
minute meeting. And a guy in the back
00:19:10.000 –> 00:19:11.000
of the room, Joe is his name, Joe
00:19:11.000 –> 00:19:13.000
Reininger, and he says, raises his hand. He
00:19:13.000 –> 00:19:15.000
says, what about all those people that wanna
00:19:15.000 –> 00:19:16.000
go with red.
00:19:16.000 –> 00:19:19.000
And then my internal body was screaming and
00:19:19.000 –> 00:19:21.000
jumping up and down, but I had to
00:19:21.000 –> 00:19:23.000
stay really calm and collective. Right? But I
00:19:23.000 –> 00:19:24.000
was just that was Joe and I still
00:19:24.000 –> 00:19:26.000
to this day who’s with us. We talk
00:19:26.000 –> 00:19:28.000
about that. And so it was just one
00:19:28.000 –> 00:19:30.000
of those moments. Right? It was like, wow.
00:19:30.000 –> 00:19:32.000
Hopefully this happens. This is my Jerry Maguire
00:19:32.000 –> 00:19:35.000
moment. I’m leaving who’s coming with me, and
00:19:35.000 –> 00:19:38.000
I literally left my own office went to
00:19:38.000 –> 00:19:40.000
a restaurant, and I got the biggest table
00:19:40.000 –> 00:19:42.000
that you could get. And I sat there
00:19:42.000 –> 00:19:44.000
for ten or fifteen minutes by myself. And
00:19:44.000 –> 00:19:47.000
I’m like, oh, goodness. This is not good.
00:19:47.000 –> 00:19:49.000
And then all of a sudden, and it
00:19:49.000 –> 00:19:50.000
gives me chills thinking about it. All of
00:19:50.000 –> 00:19:52.000
a sudden, one by one,
00:19:52.000 –> 00:19:54.000
in comes these advisors.
00:19:54.000 –> 00:19:56.000
And it it’s the big hug. It’s the
00:19:56.000 –> 00:19:58.000
big bear hug of, oh my gosh. Let
00:19:58.000 –> 00:20:00.000
me hear more. Let me hear more. And
00:20:00.000 –> 00:20:03.000
within twenty four to forty eight hours, fifteen
00:20:03.000 –> 00:20:05.000
of those visors left and came with us.
00:20:05.000 –> 00:20:07.000
Holy cow. And that was incredible.
00:20:07.000 –> 00:20:10.000
That is incredible. And what was the pitch?
00:20:10.000 –> 00:20:12.000
How did you? Obviously, you built up
00:20:12.000 –> 00:20:15.000
trust and respect and all of that. That’s
00:20:15.000 –> 00:20:18.000
earned. It’s not pitched. But, obviously, these advisors
00:20:18.000 –> 00:20:20.000
are trusting their life’s work to you and
00:20:20.000 –> 00:20:22.000
their families So what did you say to
00:20:22.000 –> 00:20:24.000
get them over the finish line?
00:20:25.000 –> 00:20:26.000
Yeah. It was painting a vision. I mean,
00:20:26.000 –> 00:20:28.000
hence the name visionary wealth advisors. I mean,
00:20:28.000 –> 00:20:30.000
it’s what the future can and will be
00:20:30.000 –> 00:20:32.000
if you look up the definition. And so
00:20:32.000 –> 00:20:34.000
we wanted to paint this picture for what
00:20:34.000 –> 00:20:36.000
the future will and could be like for
00:20:36.000 –> 00:20:39.000
these advisors. I mean, I think anybody that’s
00:20:39.000 –> 00:20:41.000
in a an environment where and this isn’t
00:20:41.000 –> 00:20:43.000
just a Northwestern thing. This is any environment
00:20:43.000 –> 00:20:44.000
where you start over. Every single month, you’re
00:20:44.000 –> 00:20:46.000
starting over at zero, and you gotta go
00:20:46.000 –> 00:20:48.000
out, eat what you Gilliland
00:20:48.000 –> 00:20:50.000
you gotta just stay on all day long
00:20:50.000 –> 00:20:53.000
every single day. And it’s hard to build
00:20:53.000 –> 00:20:57.000
true long lasting values based deep relationships with
00:20:57.000 –> 00:20:59.000
clients when you’re constantly in sales mode. And
00:20:59.000 –> 00:21:01.000
I think those advisors knew that. Some of
00:21:01.000 –> 00:21:04.000
those advisors at that time were seven years
00:21:04.000 –> 00:21:06.000
in the business. Some of them were two
00:21:06.000 –> 00:21:08.000
years in the business. And it goes back
00:21:08.000 –> 00:21:10.000
to, yes, you talked about trust and respect,
00:21:10.000 –> 00:21:12.000
but it also went back to a relationship.
00:21:12.000 –> 00:21:15.000
And that relationship was built over two, five,
00:21:15.000 –> 00:21:16.000
seven years
00:21:17.000 –> 00:21:19.000
of being in the trenches with them. And
00:21:19.000 –> 00:21:21.000
being with them every single morning, literally Monday
00:21:21.000 –> 00:21:24.000
through Friday, 07:30, we would have meetings and
00:21:24.000 –> 00:21:26.000
it was training meetings and just setting down
00:21:26.000 –> 00:21:29.000
and talking meetings. It was accountability meetings. It
00:21:29.000 –> 00:21:31.000
was idea sharing meetings.
00:21:31.000 –> 00:21:33.000
And you do that for that long, you
00:21:33.000 –> 00:21:34.000
build this relationship,
00:21:35.000 –> 00:21:37.000
and then they see a future that’s greater
00:21:37.000 –> 00:21:38.000
than their past.
00:21:38.000 –> 00:21:40.000
And then they just they literally and I
00:21:40.000 –> 00:21:43.000
don’t take this lightly. Right? They literally resigned
00:21:43.000 –> 00:21:44.000
from their careers
00:21:44.000 –> 00:21:46.000
to go and follow this vision in this
00:21:46.000 –> 00:21:47.000
dream.
00:21:47.000 –> 00:21:49.000
And I look at them now seven years
00:21:49.000 –> 00:21:51.000
later, seven plus years later,
00:21:51.000 –> 00:21:53.000
they’re all doing better than they were doing
00:21:53.000 –> 00:21:56.000
before. Every single one of them, is doing
00:21:56.000 –> 00:21:58.000
better than they were before. So their future
00:21:58.000 –> 00:22:00.000
is greater than their past. Their present is
00:22:00.000 –> 00:22:02.000
greater than their past. And it’s just cool
00:22:02.000 –> 00:22:04.000
to look back at that and see the
00:22:04.000 –> 00:22:05.000
things that are happening now in these people’s
00:22:05.000 –> 00:22:08.000
lives, and it’s just unreal to me that
00:22:08.000 –> 00:22:10.000
to think that people would put their trust
00:22:10.000 –> 00:22:12.000
in something like that. With literally no business
00:22:12.000 –> 00:22:15.000
cards, no website done, no logo done,
00:22:16.000 –> 00:22:18.000
nothing. And they said, let’s go. We’re all
00:22:18.000 –> 00:22:18.000
in.
00:22:19.000 –> 00:22:21.000
Just an idea. Yeah. And it’s so different
00:22:21.000 –> 00:22:25.000
than most advisors that are breaking away to
00:22:25.000 –> 00:22:28.000
establish their own independent firm. There’s likely the
00:22:28.000 –> 00:22:29.000
key advisors
00:22:29.000 –> 00:22:30.000
are on board.
00:22:31.000 –> 00:22:33.000
They’re probably involved in the due diligence or
00:22:33.000 –> 00:22:35.000
at least consulted throughout the process.
00:22:35.000 –> 00:22:38.000
It’s oftentimes, though, it’s the support team that’s
00:22:38.000 –> 00:22:40.000
kinda left in the dark just for confidentiality
00:22:40.000 –> 00:22:43.000
purposes. But you really took this confidentiality Gilliland
00:22:43.000 –> 00:22:46.000
discreteness to a whole new level. It’s a
00:22:46.000 –> 00:22:48.000
pretty insane story. And I’m curious too. I
00:22:48.000 –> 00:22:51.000
mean, anyone who goes independent is taking a
00:22:51.000 –> 00:22:53.000
risk. They’re taking the risk of what if
00:22:53.000 –> 00:22:55.000
my business doesn’t come, taking the risk of
00:22:56.000 –> 00:22:57.000
not having an income for a period of
00:22:57.000 –> 00:23:00.000
time, taking the risk of not getting a
00:23:00.000 –> 00:23:02.000
big check by going to a broker dealer
00:23:02.000 –> 00:23:03.000
firm. So you not only did you take
00:23:03.000 –> 00:23:05.000
that risk, but you also own the building
00:23:05.000 –> 00:23:08.000
you’re in and did this without really knowing
00:23:08.000 –> 00:23:10.000
what the base of the business will look
00:23:10.000 –> 00:23:12.000
like How did you reconcile doing this and
00:23:12.000 –> 00:23:13.000
just going for it?
00:23:14.000 –> 00:23:16.000
A lot of, faith and hope
00:23:17.000 –> 00:23:19.000
just I mean, literally just faith and hope
00:23:19.000 –> 00:23:23.000
and trust. And I believed in relationships. I
00:23:23.000 –> 00:23:25.000
believed in myself. I believed in what we
00:23:25.000 –> 00:23:27.000
were gonna go build. Believed in the advisors
00:23:27.000 –> 00:23:29.000
and our team and our staff that came
00:23:29.000 –> 00:23:31.000
with us as well. And that was just
00:23:31.000 –> 00:23:33.000
the advisors. We also had who’s now our
00:23:33.000 –> 00:23:35.000
COO, Kate hurt is her name now, but
00:23:35.000 –> 00:23:37.000
Kate Solburger, she came with us from day
00:23:37.000 –> 00:23:40.000
one and Robin Edwards and so many others
00:23:40.000 –> 00:23:42.000
that just came with us Lauren Hubert, they
00:23:42.000 –> 00:23:44.000
were with us from day one back at
00:23:44.000 –> 00:23:45.000
that firm, and they said, you know what?
00:23:45.000 –> 00:23:47.000
Yeah. We’re also gonna come with you as
00:23:47.000 –> 00:23:49.000
well. And so it just it was one
00:23:49.000 –> 00:23:51.000
of those things that I think in life,
00:23:51.000 –> 00:23:52.000
sometimes
00:23:53.000 –> 00:23:56.000
you don’t make that big decision until it
00:23:56.000 –> 00:23:57.000
hurts enough.
00:23:57.000 –> 00:24:00.000
And for me, the upside was so great
00:24:00.000 –> 00:24:02.000
the downside, I was just so less than
00:24:02.000 –> 00:24:04.000
worried about it because I thought if I
00:24:04.000 –> 00:24:07.000
can make a career and do this and
00:24:07.000 –> 00:24:09.000
the amount of sales and the activity and
00:24:09.000 –> 00:24:10.000
the grit that you have to do, which
00:24:10.000 –> 00:24:12.000
I’m thankful for. I thought, you know what,
00:24:12.000 –> 00:24:14.000
even if this thing doesn’t work, we’ll figure
00:24:14.000 –> 00:24:17.000
it out. But honestly, I mean, I bet
00:24:17.000 –> 00:24:18.000
you know, there was a few sleepless nights,
00:24:18.000 –> 00:24:19.000
but I would say
00:24:20.000 –> 00:24:22.000
ninety five percent of the thought
00:24:22.000 –> 00:24:23.000
was all positive
00:24:24.000 –> 00:24:27.000
and just the expectations of what would happen.
00:24:27.000 –> 00:24:29.000
Yeah. Just thinking about what’s possible.
00:24:29.000 –> 00:24:30.000
So
00:24:30.000 –> 00:24:32.000
end of your first year as visionary,
00:24:33.000 –> 00:24:35.000
you had around three hundred million in assets
00:24:35.000 –> 00:24:36.000
across twelve advisors.
00:24:37.000 –> 00:24:39.000
And today, you shared your north of one
00:24:39.000 –> 00:24:42.000
point eight billion in assets and about thirty
00:24:42.000 –> 00:24:44.000
advisors. How have you grown the advisor ranks
00:24:44.000 –> 00:24:47.000
and what’s responsible for the very impressive growth
00:24:47.000 –> 00:24:49.000
and assets? Yeah. I would just say it’s
00:24:49.000 –> 00:24:51.000
going out and what we call playing in
00:24:51.000 –> 00:24:53.000
traffic. It’s getting to know people in the
00:24:53.000 –> 00:24:55.000
industry. Getting referred to great people in the
00:24:55.000 –> 00:24:56.000
industry,
00:24:56.000 –> 00:24:58.000
and whether they’ve been at a bank channel,
00:24:59.000 –> 00:25:01.000
an insurance channel, a wire house channel, an
00:25:01.000 –> 00:25:02.000
independent channel,
00:25:03.000 –> 00:25:05.000
It’s just us going out and talking to
00:25:05.000 –> 00:25:06.000
other individuals,
00:25:06.000 –> 00:25:09.000
but also our advisors referring us to individuals.
00:25:09.000 –> 00:25:12.000
I mean, so our advisors, they’re they’re happy
00:25:12.000 –> 00:25:14.000
they are fine with referring us to people
00:25:14.000 –> 00:25:16.000
that they think would be other good advisors
00:25:16.000 –> 00:25:18.000
inside of our firm. And so it’s just
00:25:18.000 –> 00:25:21.000
a it’s a collaboration of of people coming
00:25:21.000 –> 00:25:23.000
together for the greater good and building a
00:25:23.000 –> 00:25:23.000
platform.
00:25:24.000 –> 00:25:26.000
And look, the better we do at visionary,
00:25:26.000 –> 00:25:28.000
the better the advisor does, because we can
00:25:28.000 –> 00:25:30.000
offer more and more to them that ultimately
00:25:31.000 –> 00:25:34.000
helps their bottom line become more profitable. And
00:25:34.000 –> 00:25:36.000
when you’re brand spanking new and you have
00:25:36.000 –> 00:25:39.000
three hundred million, well, you’re charging for technology.
00:25:39.000 –> 00:25:41.000
You’re doing this. You’re charging for that. Well,
00:25:41.000 –> 00:25:43.000
as we’ve grown, it’s so we made a
00:25:43.000 –> 00:25:46.000
major investment into a platform, into our technology
00:25:46.000 –> 00:25:48.000
platform, and we pay for that for our
00:25:48.000 –> 00:25:51.000
advisors. Well, seven years ago, there we couldn’t
00:25:51.000 –> 00:25:53.000
even think about doing that. But today, we
00:25:53.000 –> 00:25:54.000
can.
00:25:54.000 –> 00:25:56.000
And then, you know, what’s the next three
00:25:56.000 –> 00:25:57.000
years in the five years and seven years
00:25:57.000 –> 00:25:59.000
and ten years ahead of that? What does
00:25:59.000 –> 00:26:01.000
that look like? So our vision is not
00:26:01.000 –> 00:26:03.000
about size. It’s not about x billions of
00:26:03.000 –> 00:26:06.000
dollars under management. Our vision is the platform
00:26:07.000 –> 00:26:09.000
that we build, and what it ultimately does
00:26:09.000 –> 00:26:10.000
for the interdependent
00:26:10.000 –> 00:26:12.000
advisor that’s on our platform
00:26:13.000 –> 00:26:15.000
that chooses to partner with visionary wealth advisors.
00:26:15.000 –> 00:26:18.000
How efficient can we make their practice and
00:26:18.000 –> 00:26:19.000
give them the best platform boss.
00:26:23.000 –> 00:26:25.000
Can you explain this concept of interdependence
00:26:26.000 –> 00:26:28.000
versus independence? What does it mean to you?
00:26:28.000 –> 00:26:30.000
Yeah. It’s a great question. And just in
00:26:30.000 –> 00:26:33.000
all transparency, I think if affirms, you will
00:26:33.000 –> 00:26:34.000
have people come on, especially a firm like
00:26:34.000 –> 00:26:37.000
ours where you individual advisors coming in to
00:26:37.000 –> 00:26:40.000
the firm, we’ve lost a couple of advisors.
00:26:40.000 –> 00:26:42.000
And so what happens is those advisors
00:26:43.000 –> 00:26:44.000
as they grow,
00:26:45.000 –> 00:26:47.000
they see the greatness in running and doing
00:26:47.000 –> 00:26:49.000
your own thing as well. Right? So I
00:26:49.000 –> 00:26:51.000
can’t blame those advisors for that. Now what
00:26:51.000 –> 00:26:53.000
can I learn from it? But I can’t
00:26:53.000 –> 00:26:55.000
blame them for wanting to do their thing
00:26:55.000 –> 00:26:57.000
and have their name on the wall. And
00:26:57.000 –> 00:26:59.000
that’s what some of these advisors, a couple
00:26:59.000 –> 00:27:00.000
that have left, that’s what’s happened.
00:27:01.000 –> 00:27:02.000
But the interdependent
00:27:02.000 –> 00:27:05.000
relationship is I know the cost that it
00:27:05.000 –> 00:27:07.000
takes, and the time that it takes, and
00:27:07.000 –> 00:27:09.000
the compliance, and the marketing, the branding, the
00:27:09.000 –> 00:27:10.000
web site, the cybersecurity,
00:27:11.000 –> 00:27:13.000
all the stuff that goes along with it,
00:27:13.000 –> 00:27:16.000
most advisors don’t wanna have to worry about
00:27:16.000 –> 00:27:18.000
things like a lease on a printer.
00:27:18.000 –> 00:27:20.000
Right? They don’t wanna sign their lease and
00:27:20.000 –> 00:27:22.000
and personally guarantee a lease on a commercial
00:27:22.000 –> 00:27:25.000
building. They don’t wanna do that. And so
00:27:25.000 –> 00:27:27.000
what we want is the adviser that’s interdependent
00:27:28.000 –> 00:27:30.000
that wants to be independent,
00:27:30.000 –> 00:27:33.000
but doesn’t wanna be in business by themselves.
00:27:33.000 –> 00:27:35.000
They want a platform. They want people. They
00:27:35.000 –> 00:27:36.000
want teams.
00:27:36.000 –> 00:27:38.000
Right? And that’s what we provide. And that’s
00:27:38.000 –> 00:27:39.000
what I think we’re really good at, is
00:27:39.000 –> 00:27:41.000
providing that for our advisors.
00:27:42.000 –> 00:27:44.000
And I think each advisor who joins you,
00:27:44.000 –> 00:27:46.000
even though they own their book of business,
00:27:46.000 –> 00:27:49.000
they all adopt the visionary brand. Is that
00:27:49.000 –> 00:27:52.000
correct? Yeah. So ninety something percent of them
00:27:52.000 –> 00:27:55.000
have visionary, just visionary only, but a few
00:27:55.000 –> 00:27:57.000
have visionary advisors and then, like, the insight
00:27:57.000 –> 00:28:00.000
group, for example, which is a team here
00:28:00.000 –> 00:28:02.000
with two of our advisors. They’re the insight
00:28:02.000 –> 00:28:05.000
group of visionary wealth advisors or the Verigieg
00:28:05.000 –> 00:28:07.000
group of visionary wealth advisors.
00:28:07.000 –> 00:28:10.000
And what’s the benefit of doing it that
00:28:10.000 –> 00:28:12.000
way? Can and the advisors that join you
00:28:12.000 –> 00:28:15.000
course, they have the option of having their
00:28:15.000 –> 00:28:17.000
own brand. And many people are excited by
00:28:17.000 –> 00:28:20.000
creating their own DNA and building their own
00:28:20.000 –> 00:28:23.000
own identity versus helping build something existing. So
00:28:23.000 –> 00:28:25.000
what’s the rationale for that? Yeah. And and
00:28:25.000 –> 00:28:26.000
look, I don’t think there’s a right or
00:28:26.000 –> 00:28:28.000
wrong. I think it’s just gonna, again, find
00:28:28.000 –> 00:28:31.000
that person that wants to be interdependent versus
00:28:31.000 –> 00:28:34.000
independent is what we’re looking for is the
00:28:34.000 –> 00:28:36.000
rationale behind that is, in my opinion, take
00:28:36.000 –> 00:28:38.000
Apple, for example, they don’t have the Diamond
00:28:38.000 –> 00:28:41.000
Apple store. They don’t have the Gilliland Apple
00:28:41.000 –> 00:28:43.000
store in Saint Louis. And in Brooklyn, New
00:28:43.000 –> 00:28:45.000
York, it’s the Diamond Apple store. Right? It’s
00:28:45.000 –> 00:28:47.000
Apple. And what do you know about Apple?
00:28:47.000 –> 00:28:49.000
It stands for a great product
00:28:50.000 –> 00:28:51.000
with efficiency,
00:28:51.000 –> 00:28:52.000
easy to use,
00:28:53.000 –> 00:28:55.000
good looking, right, all those things. You understand
00:28:56.000 –> 00:28:58.000
just using Apple’s the analogy here, you understand
00:28:58.000 –> 00:28:59.000
what Apple stands for.
00:29:00.000 –> 00:29:02.000
No different than what what I see and
00:29:02.000 –> 00:29:03.000
what we see is what we call the
00:29:03.000 –> 00:29:06.000
impossible company is we’re trying to build this
00:29:06.000 –> 00:29:07.000
impossible company. Don’t say I can
00:29:08.000 –> 00:29:09.000
say, how do we do it? How do
00:29:09.000 –> 00:29:11.000
we build this? And we’re getting feedback from
00:29:11.000 –> 00:29:13.000
our advisors and our team and our executive
00:29:13.000 –> 00:29:15.000
team. And and so how do we build
00:29:15.000 –> 00:29:16.000
this impossible company? How do we build the
00:29:16.000 –> 00:29:20.000
quote unquote Apple of financial planning. And so
00:29:20.000 –> 00:29:20.000
visionary,
00:29:21.000 –> 00:29:23.000
my vision, our vision is when I see
00:29:23.000 –> 00:29:24.000
that logo
00:29:24.000 –> 00:29:26.000
of somebody in the community sees that logo,
00:29:26.000 –> 00:29:29.000
they know what it stands for. They know
00:29:29.000 –> 00:29:30.000
that they do comprehensive
00:29:30.000 –> 00:29:31.000
high
00:29:31.000 –> 00:29:33.000
end white glove service,
00:29:33.000 –> 00:29:35.000
high touch, financial planning.
00:29:36.000 –> 00:29:38.000
They know they are really good people in
00:29:38.000 –> 00:29:41.000
the community. They give back, whether it’s their
00:29:41.000 –> 00:29:43.000
place of worship, or it’s a charity for
00:29:43.000 –> 00:29:45.000
cancer, or it’s their kid’s school, or their
00:29:45.000 –> 00:29:47.000
coaching in their kid’s baseball team in the
00:29:47.000 –> 00:29:47.000
community,
00:29:48.000 –> 00:29:50.000
they know what that stands for, and that’s
00:29:50.000 –> 00:29:52.000
what it’s about for people in my opinion.
00:29:53.000 –> 00:29:56.000
Amazing. And that’s a a good segue into
00:29:56.000 –> 00:29:59.000
my next question, which is about visionary’s mission
00:29:59.000 –> 00:30:01.000
and how this flows into your business.
00:30:03.000 –> 00:30:05.000
Yeah. So our mission statement is is to
00:30:05.000 –> 00:30:07.000
help people achieve future greater than their past.
00:30:07.000 –> 00:30:08.000
I mean, if if I had everybody that
00:30:08.000 –> 00:30:10.000
was listening to your show right now, Lewis,
00:30:10.000 –> 00:30:11.000
and I said, to raise your hand if
00:30:11.000 –> 00:30:13.000
you want a future greater than your past,
00:30:14.000 –> 00:30:16.000
I would assume most everybody listening would raise
00:30:16.000 –> 00:30:18.000
their hand. Right? Everybody wants a future greater
00:30:18.000 –> 00:30:21.000
than your past. And so our job is
00:30:21.000 –> 00:30:23.000
to slow down with our clients take them
00:30:23.000 –> 00:30:26.000
off the treadmill of life, set them down
00:30:26.000 –> 00:30:28.000
for an hour, three hours, ten hours a
00:30:28.000 –> 00:30:30.000
year, whatever it takes for that client, and
00:30:30.000 –> 00:30:33.000
really open that Pandora’s box and find out
00:30:33.000 –> 00:30:35.000
internally in their soul, what is important to
00:30:35.000 –> 00:30:38.000
them, what what makes them tick, it’s our
00:30:38.000 –> 00:30:40.000
job to unlock that. And then help all
00:30:40.000 –> 00:30:42.000
those things come out. And so then it’s,
00:30:42.000 –> 00:30:44.000
again, to help those people achieve a future
00:30:44.000 –> 00:30:45.000
greater than their past. And I know a
00:30:45.000 –> 00:30:47.000
lot of people say that and they do
00:30:47.000 –> 00:30:48.000
that. They’re doing great jobs in our industry
00:30:48.000 –> 00:30:50.000
of doing that, but that’s just to our
00:30:50.000 –> 00:30:52.000
core. That’s what we believe is to see
00:30:52.000 –> 00:30:53.000
that future be greater.
00:30:54.000 –> 00:30:57.000
And helping them daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, whatever
00:30:57.000 –> 00:30:59.000
it may be, helping them achieve that.
00:31:00.000 –> 00:31:02.000
Love it. And how about charity work and
00:31:02.000 –> 00:31:03.000
community engagement?
00:31:04.000 –> 00:31:06.000
Yeah. That’s huge. I mean, we have a
00:31:06.000 –> 00:31:08.000
lot of people involved in tons of charities,
00:31:08.000 –> 00:31:10.000
and whether they’re setting on boards, it’s being
00:31:10.000 –> 00:31:13.000
on, involved running events. And my wife and
00:31:13.000 –> 00:31:16.000
I, personally, we have a a charity of
00:31:16.000 –> 00:31:18.000
foundation. We started fourteen years ago called swing
00:31:18.000 –> 00:31:20.000
four Hope. F o r e because I’m
00:31:20.000 –> 00:31:22.000
a big golfer. It’s a swing for hope,
00:31:22.000 –> 00:31:25.000
and we raise money every single year to
00:31:25.000 –> 00:31:27.000
give back to those that have been affected
00:31:27.000 –> 00:31:29.000
by cancer. My mother-in-law,
00:31:29.000 –> 00:31:32.000
three of her sisters or mom and and
00:31:32.000 –> 00:31:34.000
two of her sisters all got diagnosed with
00:31:34.000 –> 00:31:36.000
cancer. My dad was six weeks after we
00:31:36.000 –> 00:31:38.000
started the foundation, had cancer.
00:31:38.000 –> 00:31:40.000
Her dad a year after that got cancer.
00:31:40.000 –> 00:31:42.000
So three of our four parents have cancer
00:31:42.000 –> 00:31:45.000
and or had cancer and think thankfully so
00:31:45.000 –> 00:31:47.000
far they beat that disease. And so we
00:31:47.000 –> 00:31:49.000
just make it our mission is that we
00:31:49.000 –> 00:31:51.000
feel like if we’ve been putting this earth
00:31:51.000 –> 00:31:53.000
to get, right, we all make great money
00:31:53.000 –> 00:31:55.000
from our wonderful clients, but we also have
00:31:55.000 –> 00:31:57.000
to give back to that community. And that’s
00:31:57.000 –> 00:31:59.000
just what we believe as a firm, but
00:31:59.000 –> 00:32:02.000
just individually as well for swing for hope.
00:32:02.000 –> 00:32:03.000
It’s a passion of ours that we just
00:32:03.000 –> 00:32:05.000
wanna help as many people as we possibly
00:32:05.000 –> 00:32:07.000
can And we help, you know, pay mortgages,
00:32:07.000 –> 00:32:09.000
pay their power bill, pay for them to
00:32:09.000 –> 00:32:11.000
get to and from chemo, whatever it may
00:32:11.000 –> 00:32:14.000
be, that’s what we’re about. It’s amazing. Our
00:32:14.000 –> 00:32:16.000
clients come out, our advisors come out, support
00:32:16.000 –> 00:32:18.000
the cause, and we just have a three
00:32:18.000 –> 00:32:19.000
or four events a year to really make
00:32:19.000 –> 00:32:20.000
a big impact.
00:32:21.000 –> 00:32:23.000
That’s incredible. We’ll put the link to
00:32:23.000 –> 00:32:26.000
the charity on the episode page. So folks
00:32:26.000 –> 00:32:28.000
can check it out and hopefully contribute.
00:32:29.000 –> 00:32:31.000
A really cool initiative. So two more questions
00:32:31.000 –> 00:32:33.000
for you. I know you’re the host of
00:32:33.000 –> 00:32:36.000
the Circative Success podcast. You’ve been doing it
00:32:36.000 –> 00:32:37.000
for four to four and a half years.
00:32:37.000 –> 00:32:39.000
So why didn’t you give a plug for
00:32:39.000 –> 00:32:40.000
it? What do you talk about? Why’d you
00:32:40.000 –> 00:32:43.000
do it? And ultimately, how does it impact
00:32:43.000 –> 00:32:44.000
your business?
00:32:44.000 –> 00:32:46.000
Yeah. Yes. So thanks for talking about that.
00:32:46.000 –> 00:32:48.000
Yeah. The circle of success, it’s been around
00:32:48.000 –> 00:32:51.000
for since February of two thousand sixteen, I
00:32:51.000 –> 00:32:53.000
think. And so we’ve had lots of shows
00:32:53.000 –> 00:32:55.000
and lots of great Gilliland and really What
00:32:55.000 –> 00:32:57.000
it’s about, I always say it’s the it’s
00:32:57.000 –> 00:32:59.000
to give people the best tips and tools
00:32:59.000 –> 00:33:01.000
for their life, right, whether that’s through wealth
00:33:01.000 –> 00:33:04.000
management, it’s through mindset, it’s through business topics,
00:33:04.000 –> 00:33:05.000
it’s through goal planning.
00:33:06.000 –> 00:33:08.000
All the things that we wanna do, we’ve
00:33:08.000 –> 00:33:10.000
had hall of fame athletes to big time
00:33:10.000 –> 00:33:13.000
business people to your normal everyday business owner
00:33:13.000 –> 00:33:15.000
running around on the streets we can learn
00:33:15.000 –> 00:33:18.000
from. And it’s really picking their brains and
00:33:18.000 –> 00:33:20.000
finding out what’s made them tick for the
00:33:20.000 –> 00:33:22.000
over their lifetime, over their career and what’s
00:33:22.000 –> 00:33:24.000
made them successful. It really, for me, it
00:33:24.000 –> 00:33:26.000
comes down to the four things that are
00:33:26.000 –> 00:33:28.000
the circuits of success. And it’s your attitude,
00:33:29.000 –> 00:33:30.000
your belief system,
00:33:30.000 –> 00:33:33.000
the actions that you have to take every
00:33:33.000 –> 00:33:35.000
single day, ultimately get your results.
00:33:35.000 –> 00:33:37.000
And when you follow those beliefs and those
00:33:37.000 –> 00:33:40.000
attitudes and that action, you will get results
00:33:40.000 –> 00:33:42.000
in your life. And so it’s really kind
00:33:42.000 –> 00:33:44.000
of peeling the onion layers back on so
00:33:44.000 –> 00:33:46.000
many great people from the men and women
00:33:46.000 –> 00:33:48.000
around the world and finding out what’s made
00:33:48.000 –> 00:33:50.000
them successful in those areas and how it’s
00:33:50.000 –> 00:33:54.000
helped them personally, professionally, emotionally, intellectually, financially,
00:33:54.000 –> 00:33:57.000
etcetera, to really live the life of their
00:33:57.000 –> 00:33:58.000
dreams. And, again, to help people achieve a
00:33:58.000 –> 00:34:01.000
future greater than their I mean, of course,
00:34:01.000 –> 00:34:03.000
you’re doing that podcast because it’s something you’re
00:34:03.000 –> 00:34:05.000
passionate about. You’re not getting paid to do
00:34:05.000 –> 00:34:08.000
it. So as a business person, have you
00:34:08.000 –> 00:34:10.000
been able to track it all? What’s sort
00:34:10.000 –> 00:34:12.000
of growth it’s it’s led to. And I’m
00:34:12.000 –> 00:34:14.000
asking because a lot of our adviser listeners,
00:34:14.000 –> 00:34:16.000
one of the things they envision is having
00:34:16.000 –> 00:34:18.000
a podcast or at least having the ability
00:34:18.000 –> 00:34:22.000
to and being able to generate business in
00:34:22.000 –> 00:34:24.000
a different way, scaled communication. What’s been your
00:34:24.000 –> 00:34:27.000
experience with that? Yeah. There certainly has been
00:34:27.000 –> 00:34:29.000
business from that. There’s no doubt about it.
00:34:29.000 –> 00:34:31.000
I mean, it’s one of those things you
00:34:31.000 –> 00:34:33.000
get done having a conversation with somebody for
00:34:33.000 –> 00:34:34.000
forty five minutes
00:34:34.000 –> 00:34:36.000
and getting deep into their life and their
00:34:36.000 –> 00:34:38.000
story and their Gilliland
00:34:38.000 –> 00:34:40.000
what’s made them tick, as I always say,
00:34:41.000 –> 00:34:43.000
I’ve just built a different relationship with that
00:34:43.000 –> 00:34:45.000
person. Right? Versus me just wanted having coffee
00:34:45.000 –> 00:34:48.000
and having a nice coffee meeting and talking
00:34:48.000 –> 00:34:49.000
about whatever,
00:34:49.000 –> 00:34:51.000
I have found that people that I and
00:34:51.000 –> 00:34:53.000
I’m not doing it to try to get
00:34:53.000 –> 00:34:54.000
them as a client. I’m really not. I’m
00:34:54.000 –> 00:34:57.000
doing it because for me, I jokingly call
00:34:57.000 –> 00:34:58.000
it my weekly therapy.
00:34:58.000 –> 00:35:00.000
I’m setting down with some of the best
00:35:00.000 –> 00:35:02.000
people in our world
00:35:02.000 –> 00:35:03.000
on leadership
00:35:03.000 –> 00:35:05.000
and the books they’ve read and the the
00:35:05.000 –> 00:35:07.000
failures they’ve had, the successes that they’ve had,
00:35:07.000 –> 00:35:09.000
what do they do from an exercise How
00:35:09.000 –> 00:35:11.000
do they eat better? How do they become
00:35:11.000 –> 00:35:12.000
a better dad or a husband or a
00:35:12.000 –> 00:35:14.000
wife? Whatever it may be.
00:35:14.000 –> 00:35:16.000
I selfishly get to do that every single
00:35:16.000 –> 00:35:17.000
week.
00:35:17.000 –> 00:35:19.000
With these people. Right? I’m learning. I’m going
00:35:19.000 –> 00:35:21.000
through therapy, but what does that do? That
00:35:21.000 –> 00:35:23.000
allows me, in my opinion, to give more
00:35:23.000 –> 00:35:24.000
to our advisors.
00:35:25.000 –> 00:35:27.000
I’m learning. Right? I’m growing. I’m in the
00:35:27.000 –> 00:35:29.000
trenches as well as an advisor. So I
00:35:29.000 –> 00:35:30.000
know what’s going on out there. I know
00:35:30.000 –> 00:35:33.000
the questions we’re getting from people. It allows
00:35:33.000 –> 00:35:34.000
me to be better for our advisors. It
00:35:34.000 –> 00:35:36.000
allows me to be better for my family.
00:35:36.000 –> 00:35:37.000
It allows me to be better for the
00:35:37.000 –> 00:35:38.000
community.
00:35:38.000 –> 00:35:40.000
And if we’re continually getting better day in
00:35:40.000 –> 00:35:43.000
and day out, we’re all gonna win. And,
00:35:43.000 –> 00:35:45.000
yes, do we get clients? Absolutely. Do I
00:35:45.000 –> 00:35:47.000
track it? No. Because the point of that
00:35:47.000 –> 00:35:50.000
is I wanna get better I want other
00:35:50.000 –> 00:35:52.000
people to get better that are listening to
00:35:52.000 –> 00:35:54.000
it. And our following, our listenership continues to
00:35:54.000 –> 00:35:56.000
grow week after week, and it’s just one
00:35:56.000 –> 00:35:58.000
of those things that I know we’re helping
00:35:58.000 –> 00:36:00.000
people get better. And then if I’m at
00:36:00.000 –> 00:36:01.000
a board meeting or I’m somewhere in the
00:36:01.000 –> 00:36:04.000
community, it I mean, weekly, something comes up
00:36:04.000 –> 00:36:06.000
about the podcast and people wanna talk about
00:36:06.000 –> 00:36:08.000
it. So it’s a great conversation starter as
00:36:08.000 –> 00:36:09.000
well.
00:36:14.000 –> 00:36:16.000
Final question that will let you get on
00:36:16.000 –> 00:36:18.000
with your day, something we always ask, any
00:36:18.000 –> 00:36:21.000
advice to advisors who may be thinking about
00:36:21.000 –> 00:36:22.000
making the leap independence?
00:36:23.000 –> 00:36:24.000
Absolutely. I would say,
00:36:25.000 –> 00:36:27.000
trust your your gut is usually right. And
00:36:27.000 –> 00:36:29.000
I shouldn’t say use it. For me, it’s
00:36:29.000 –> 00:36:31.000
always right. Maybe not at the level you
00:36:31.000 –> 00:36:33.000
think it will be as quick as you
00:36:33.000 –> 00:36:35.000
think it will be, but I do believe
00:36:35.000 –> 00:36:37.000
whatever your gut is telling you is what
00:36:37.000 –> 00:36:38.000
you should follow. Because
00:36:39.000 –> 00:36:40.000
if you go to your head, right, to
00:36:40.000 –> 00:36:43.000
your actual brain, your brain is gonna give
00:36:43.000 –> 00:36:44.000
you reasons. It’s wired to tell us why
00:36:44.000 –> 00:36:47.000
it’s gonna be so difficult, and it’s gonna
00:36:47.000 –> 00:36:50.000
tell us why you shouldn’t make that leap.
00:36:50.000 –> 00:36:52.000
Why all of your clients won’t come with
00:36:52.000 –> 00:36:54.000
you, why this won’t happen, and why that
00:36:54.000 –> 00:36:56.000
won’t happen. But what your gut’s telling you
00:36:56.000 –> 00:36:58.000
is I want more. I wanna be part
00:36:58.000 –> 00:37:00.000
of an interdependent an independent relationship.
00:37:00.000 –> 00:37:01.000
That’s what I’m seeking.
00:37:02.000 –> 00:37:05.000
And trust me, you will have more clients
00:37:05.000 –> 00:37:06.000
come with you than you think we’ll have
00:37:06.000 –> 00:37:08.000
come with you. We’ve seen it happen
00:37:09.000 –> 00:37:12.000
time and time again. And the number one
00:37:12.000 –> 00:37:13.000
fear people have, and I’m sure you see
00:37:13.000 –> 00:37:14.000
this, Lewis, is what?
00:37:15.000 –> 00:37:17.000
My clients won’t go with me. My clients
00:37:17.000 –> 00:37:19.000
don’t wanna move. My old firm or the
00:37:19.000 –> 00:37:22.000
firm I’m at is they’re the reason they’re
00:37:22.000 –> 00:37:22.000
my client.
00:37:23.000 –> 00:37:25.000
Oh, that’s just not true. They’re with you
00:37:25.000 –> 00:37:28.000
because of who you are. Even as a
00:37:28.000 –> 00:37:29.000
leader of visionary wealth advisors,
00:37:30.000 –> 00:37:32.000
I’m not naive to think the only reason
00:37:32.000 –> 00:37:34.000
somebody’s a client of a guy or a
00:37:34.000 –> 00:37:36.000
gal at our firm is because of visionary.
00:37:36.000 –> 00:37:38.000
No. It’s because of that adviser.
00:37:39.000 –> 00:37:41.000
They own the relationship. And if you truly
00:37:41.000 –> 00:37:42.000
own your relationship,
00:37:43.000 –> 00:37:45.000
I say take the jump because you’re gonna
00:37:45.000 –> 00:37:45.000
be very successful,
00:37:46.000 –> 00:37:47.000
and your mind will be blown
00:37:48.000 –> 00:37:50.000
six months from now when you make that
00:37:50.000 –> 00:37:51.000
jump of what actually happened.
00:37:52.000 –> 00:37:55.000
Yeah. Powerful advice. Brett, this has been a
00:37:55.000 –> 00:37:58.000
really cool interview. Thank you for enlightening us
00:37:58.000 –> 00:38:01.000
sharing your Jerry Maguire moment, and also just
00:38:01.000 –> 00:38:03.000
giving us some great parting words of wisdom.
00:38:03.000 –> 00:38:06.000
Absolutely, Lewis. Always good to be with you
00:38:06.000 –> 00:38:07.000
and, love what you guys are doing and
00:38:07.000 –> 00:38:10.000
you’re helping tons of people Gilliland just absolutely
00:38:10.000 –> 00:38:11.000
love it. So keep up the great work
00:38:11.000 –> 00:38:13.000
and appreciate you having me on the show.
39 min
November 13, 2023 Creating a Culture of Excellence with Kyle McDowell
How do you build a culture of excellence? You begin with WE.
On this episode of the Circuit of Success Podcast, Brett Gilliland interviews best-selling author, inspirational speaker, and leadership expert Kyle McDowell. Together they break down McDowell’s best seller Begin With WE and the top principles of creating and sustaining a culture of excellence. Kyle shares his experience of transitioning from a corporate career to starting his own business, and how he was able to make a positive change in his life by investing in himself and his passions. Kyle emphasizes the importance of leading by example, taking action, and focusing on outcomes rather than busyness to create a unified culture within an organization.
Are you looking to lead with excellence?
You don’t wanna miss this…
FULL YOUTUBE EPISODE

00:00:15.000 –> 00:00:16.000
Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your
00:00:16.000 –> 00:00:19.000
host, Brett Gilliland. Today, I’ve got Kyle McDowell
00:00:19.000 –> 00:00:20.000
with me, Kyle. What’s up, buddy?
00:00:23.000 –> 00:00:25.000
Hey, Brett. I’m well. It’s great to be
00:00:25.000 –> 00:00:27.000
with you today. I appreciate you, you having
00:00:27.000 –> 00:00:27.000
me.
00:00:28.000 –> 00:00:29.000
It’s great to be with you as well,
00:00:29.000 –> 00:00:31.000
man. I’m excited. I I hope based on
00:00:31.000 –> 00:00:33.000
what I’ve seen about you and your energy,
00:00:33.000 –> 00:00:35.000
we’re gonna have an awesome conversation today, man,
00:00:35.000 –> 00:00:37.000
so I’m fired up.
00:00:38.000 –> 00:00:40.000
Likewise. I hope so. I’m I’m just thrilled
00:00:40.000 –> 00:00:42.000
to be here. I anytime I get a
00:00:42.000 –> 00:00:43.000
chance to kind of spread the message and
00:00:44.000 –> 00:00:46.000
evangelize the work that I’m doing, especially on
00:00:46.000 –> 00:00:47.000
a podcast that’s been around as long as
00:00:47.000 –> 00:00:50.000
yours, I jump at it. So, again, thank
00:00:50.000 –> 00:00:53.000
you. Awesome. Awesome. Well, you are a former
00:00:53.000 –> 00:00:55.000
fortune ten executive that turned to a Wall
00:00:55.000 –> 00:00:58.000
Street and USA Today best selling author.
00:00:58.000 –> 00:01:00.000
And speaker. You’re traveling the world man on
00:01:00.000 –> 00:01:02.000
all sorts of stages, but before we dive
00:01:02.000 –> 00:01:04.000
it, man, you are today, man. There’s a
00:01:04.000 –> 00:01:07.000
backstory in there. And something that makes Kyle
00:01:07.000 –> 00:01:08.000
tick, and I’d love to see if we
00:01:08.000 –> 00:01:10.000
can pull some of that out.
00:01:11.000 –> 00:01:13.000
Yeah. You thank you for that. I’d be
00:01:13.000 –> 00:01:15.000
remiss because I if I didn’t just start
00:01:15.000 –> 00:01:16.000
early on.
00:01:17.000 –> 00:01:19.000
I I I was very fortunate to have,
00:01:21.000 –> 00:01:24.000
a mother who had an incredible work ethic,
00:01:24.000 –> 00:01:26.000
out she was a single parent mom for,
00:01:27.000 –> 00:01:29.000
the first several years of of my life
00:01:29.000 –> 00:01:31.000
until she met a wonderful man who became
00:01:31.000 –> 00:01:33.000
my stepdad. And, you know, they always instilled
00:01:33.000 –> 00:01:34.000
a sense of work ethic in me that
00:01:34.000 –> 00:01:35.000
I just don’t think
00:01:36.000 –> 00:01:38.000
you can replicate. I don’t I think it’s
00:01:38.000 –> 00:01:40.000
hard to to teach it if it doesn’t
00:01:40.000 –> 00:01:42.000
start at an early age.
00:01:42.000 –> 00:01:44.000
So I just learned the value of a
00:01:44.000 –> 00:01:46.000
dollar and the value of
00:01:46.000 –> 00:01:48.000
or the connection rather between
00:01:48.000 –> 00:01:50.000
hard work and outcomes. If you want something,
00:01:50.000 –> 00:01:52.000
you gotta go work for it. I’ll never
00:01:52.000 –> 00:01:54.000
forget, man. Growing up every time a new
00:01:54.000 –> 00:01:56.000
pair of Air Jordans would hit the would
00:01:56.000 –> 00:01:57.000
hit the stores.
00:01:57.000 –> 00:01:59.000
And I wanted those things every single year,
00:01:59.000 –> 00:02:01.000
the new the new shoe would come out.
00:02:01.000 –> 00:02:02.000
I knew what I had to do. I
00:02:02.000 –> 00:02:04.000
had to put in weeks of yard work.
00:02:04.000 –> 00:02:05.000
It was always the recipe.
00:02:05.000 –> 00:02:06.000
So,
00:02:07.000 –> 00:02:09.000
I entered corporate America at seventeen,
00:02:09.000 –> 00:02:12.000
ironically, or of, believe it or not. I,
00:02:12.000 –> 00:02:13.000
I interviewed for a job at a local
00:02:13.000 –> 00:02:15.000
bank when I was seventeen years old.
00:02:16.000 –> 00:02:18.000
I rolled the dice that if I were
00:02:18.000 –> 00:02:20.000
to get an offer, the offer would come
00:02:20.000 –> 00:02:22.000
sometime after my eighteenth birthday because they wouldn’t
00:02:22.000 –> 00:02:23.000
have hired me if they’d known I was
00:02:23.000 –> 00:02:25.000
a minor. Right. And it worked. So I
00:02:25.000 –> 00:02:28.000
interviewed in June of nineteen ninety three got
00:02:28.000 –> 00:02:30.000
the offer in July started in August,
00:02:31.000 –> 00:02:33.000
and, I’ve been a kind of a student
00:02:33.000 –> 00:02:35.000
of of leadership
00:02:36.000 –> 00:02:38.000
in in the dynamics that come with working
00:02:38.000 –> 00:02:39.000
inside of corporate America,
00:02:40.000 –> 00:02:42.000
for the last nearly thirty years. So that’s
00:02:42.000 –> 00:02:44.000
I think that’s That’s what brings us here
00:02:44.000 –> 00:02:46.000
today, but I I have to share also,
00:02:46.000 –> 00:02:47.000
man. I,
00:02:48.000 –> 00:02:50.000
throughout that thirty year journey, and I’m sure
00:02:50.000 –> 00:02:52.000
you and and Certainly, many of your listeners
00:02:52.000 –> 00:02:54.000
might be able to relate.
00:02:54.000 –> 00:02:57.000
I found myself becoming more and more apathetic
00:02:57.000 –> 00:02:57.000
towards
00:02:58.000 –> 00:03:00.000
the whole thing. Towards the whole gig, man.
00:03:00.000 –> 00:03:02.000
And when I say gig, I mean, everything
00:03:02.000 –> 00:03:03.000
that comes with
00:03:04.000 –> 00:03:05.000
working inside the corporate world,
00:03:06.000 –> 00:03:07.000
the bureaucracy
00:03:08.000 –> 00:03:10.000
see the dysfunction, the toxicity, all of the
00:03:10.000 –> 00:03:12.000
things. And I’m the first to admit, by
00:03:12.000 –> 00:03:14.000
the way, man. I I perpetuated a lot
00:03:14.000 –> 00:03:16.000
of that. When you’re leading big organizations,
00:03:16.000 –> 00:03:19.000
you’re put in a position where lather rinse
00:03:19.000 –> 00:03:20.000
repeat what’s always worked will continue to work.
00:03:20.000 –> 00:03:23.000
So you just kinda perpetuate that same toxicity
00:03:23.000 –> 00:03:23.000
and dysfunction.
00:03:24.000 –> 00:03:26.000
Yep. And I just I hit a boiling
00:03:26.000 –> 00:03:28.000
point late in my career probably around year
00:03:28.000 –> 00:03:31.000
twenty three where I I just said there
00:03:31.000 –> 00:03:32.000
has to be a better way.
00:03:33.000 –> 00:03:35.000
And that’s when I came up with the
00:03:35.000 –> 00:03:37.000
concept that ultimately resulted in the book that
00:03:37.000 –> 00:03:38.000
you mentioned at the top. And,
00:03:39.000 –> 00:03:41.000
it’s changed my life, actually. The the the
00:03:41.000 –> 00:03:44.000
realization I came to about you know, leading
00:03:44.000 –> 00:03:46.000
with a we mindset and getting to know
00:03:46.000 –> 00:03:48.000
your people and investing your time and energy
00:03:48.000 –> 00:03:50.000
into them. Just certainly, it changed my professional
00:03:50.000 –> 00:03:52.000
life, and that is I’m so happy to
00:03:52.000 –> 00:03:54.000
say it’s transcended into my personal life as
00:03:54.000 –> 00:03:55.000
well and my relationships.
00:03:56.000 –> 00:03:57.000
Well, I think we you and I have
00:03:57.000 –> 00:03:58.000
a lot in common. I mean, it’s
00:03:59.000 –> 00:04:01.000
a career decision that we made. I made
00:04:01.000 –> 00:04:03.000
mine at twelve and a half years in
00:04:03.000 –> 00:04:05.000
my professional career. You made yours. It sounds
00:04:05.000 –> 00:04:07.000
like at at at twenty two years, but
00:04:07.000 –> 00:04:08.000
I was the same way, man. And I
00:04:08.000 –> 00:04:10.000
say this is that as my success,
00:04:10.000 –> 00:04:13.000
you know, quote unquote success was going like
00:04:13.000 –> 00:04:13.000
that.
00:04:14.000 –> 00:04:15.000
My job satisfaction,
00:04:15.000 –> 00:04:18.000
my career satisfaction was going the other direction.
00:04:18.000 –> 00:04:21.000
And, you know, I I had a a
00:04:21.000 –> 00:04:23.000
nice firm and and a nice office and
00:04:23.000 –> 00:04:24.000
and things like that, but it it just
00:04:24.000 –> 00:04:27.000
didn’t feel right. You know, and so now
00:04:27.000 –> 00:04:28.000
same to you. Like, my,
00:04:29.000 –> 00:04:31.000
you know, our firm now, our our mission,
00:04:31.000 –> 00:04:34.000
I mean, everything is around that future greater
00:04:34.000 –> 00:04:36.000
than your past. And it has been life
00:04:36.000 –> 00:04:38.000
changing. So I agree with you, but talk
00:04:38.000 –> 00:04:39.000
to the listener right now that’s twenty two
00:04:39.000 –> 00:04:41.000
years in a career, twelve and a half
00:04:41.000 –> 00:04:44.000
years into a career. And they’re scared as
00:04:44.000 –> 00:04:46.000
hell, man, to go make that jump. Bet
00:04:46.000 –> 00:04:48.000
on themselves. Walk away from, you know, the
00:04:48.000 –> 00:04:51.000
04:01 k plan, the health insurance, the nice
00:04:51.000 –> 00:04:53.000
check they’re getting all the stuff you and
00:04:53.000 –> 00:04:56.000
I had. Right? Talk to our listeners about
00:04:56.000 –> 00:04:57.000
that step.
00:04:57.000 –> 00:04:59.000
Well, first, I’m and I’m glad you went
00:04:59.000 –> 00:05:01.000
here because it it’s always a fear of
00:05:01.000 –> 00:05:03.000
mine that when I talk about my transition
00:05:03.000 –> 00:05:06.000
from from the corporate world into starting my
00:05:06.000 –> 00:05:08.000
own deal and and hitting the road to
00:05:08.000 –> 00:05:10.000
evangelize these principles,
00:05:10.000 –> 00:05:11.000
that,
00:05:13.000 –> 00:05:15.000
I don’t want it to be lost or
00:05:15.000 –> 00:05:18.000
that I that leave is scary as all
00:05:18.000 –> 00:05:21.000
get out. It is. It’s absolutely terrifying.
00:05:22.000 –> 00:05:24.000
Especially if you spent as you’ve, you know,
00:05:24.000 –> 00:05:26.000
a dozen plus years, in my case, more
00:05:26.000 –> 00:05:27.000
more than twenty years,
00:05:28.000 –> 00:05:31.000
We get programmed. We are we are absolutely
00:05:31.000 –> 00:05:32.000
programmed to
00:05:33.000 –> 00:05:35.000
get up a certain time, go through the
00:05:35.000 –> 00:05:37.000
same, just, you know, clock in, clock out,
00:05:38.000 –> 00:05:40.000
and look for the next paycheck, looks for
00:05:40.000 –> 00:05:42.000
the next promotion, kinda keep your head down.
00:05:43.000 –> 00:05:45.000
But there’s this expression that hit me,
00:05:47.000 –> 00:05:48.000
right around the time I realized I had
00:05:48.000 –> 00:05:50.000
to make a change and it was they
00:05:50.000 –> 00:05:51.000
pay you to forget your dreams.
00:05:52.000 –> 00:05:56.000
And and there’s no there’s no nefarious scheme
00:05:56.000 –> 00:05:58.000
behind the scenes that that that that this
00:05:58.000 –> 00:05:59.000
that this happens to us, but
00:06:00.000 –> 00:06:02.000
I can tell by your your the way
00:06:02.000 –> 00:06:03.000
you frame the question that you you you
00:06:03.000 –> 00:06:05.000
kinda relate. Right? You you start making that
00:06:05.000 –> 00:06:07.000
paycheck. There’s some security that comes in. I
00:06:07.000 –> 00:06:09.000
had a fair amount of money in the
00:06:09.000 –> 00:06:10.000
bank where I felt comfortable.
00:06:12.000 –> 00:06:13.000
And it just became it it became my
00:06:13.000 –> 00:06:16.000
identity. My my corporate life became my my
00:06:16.000 –> 00:06:18.000
identity. So much so that when I wrote
00:06:18.000 –> 00:06:19.000
the book, I had friends saying I had
00:06:19.000 –> 00:06:22.000
no idea that you were dispassionate about these
00:06:22.000 –> 00:06:24.000
things because I didn’t, you know, Kyle at
00:06:24.000 –> 00:06:26.000
work was different than Kyle at home, which
00:06:26.000 –> 00:06:28.000
is not good. I mean, that’s Right. It’s
00:06:28.000 –> 00:06:30.000
a a lack of authenticity, which is something
00:06:30.000 –> 00:06:31.000
I didn’t realize at the time.
00:06:33.000 –> 00:06:35.000
So for your listeners, to me, it’s
00:06:36.000 –> 00:06:39.000
Never forget that everything we do every single
00:06:39.000 –> 00:06:42.000
day is the result of a choice.
00:06:42.000 –> 00:06:45.000
And you can choose to continue down the
00:06:45.000 –> 00:06:46.000
same path,
00:06:47.000 –> 00:06:48.000
get the two, three percent raise every year,
00:06:48.000 –> 00:06:50.000
you know, maybe get a promotion every few
00:06:50.000 –> 00:06:52.000
years, whatever your your path, wherever your path
00:06:52.000 –> 00:06:54.000
takes you, and that’s not wrong. That’s not
00:06:54.000 –> 00:06:55.000
wrong.
00:06:56.000 –> 00:06:57.000
But the choice to do something different, maybe
00:06:57.000 –> 00:06:57.000
a little, unconventional
00:06:58.000 –> 00:06:59.000
is
00:07:03.000 –> 00:07:05.000
something that I decide that we have because
00:07:05.000 –> 00:07:07.000
they do pay to forget your dreams in
00:07:07.000 –> 00:07:09.000
in suit the sooner you realize there’s a
00:07:09.000 –> 00:07:11.000
choice to be made and that there are
00:07:11.000 –> 00:07:12.000
opportunities
00:07:12.000 –> 00:07:13.000
that are
00:07:13.000 –> 00:07:16.000
virtually unlimited out there today. The number of
00:07:17.000 –> 00:07:18.000
things you can do today is just is
00:07:18.000 –> 00:07:20.000
exponentially higher than it ever was before.
00:07:22.000 –> 00:07:23.000
But that all starts with a choice. Right?
00:07:23.000 –> 00:07:25.000
You you made the choice. I made the
00:07:25.000 –> 00:07:25.000
choice.
00:07:26.000 –> 00:07:27.000
And I don’t want anybody out there to
00:07:27.000 –> 00:07:29.000
hear this and think that, you know, well,
00:07:29.000 –> 00:07:31.000
he’s ascended to a certain level. No. It’s
00:07:31.000 –> 00:07:33.000
it’s it is terrifying at any level when
00:07:33.000 –> 00:07:35.000
you make a decision. I’m calling this chapter
00:07:35.000 –> 00:07:37.000
two of my career because the first chapter,
00:07:37.000 –> 00:07:38.000
I closed the book on about five years
00:07:38.000 –> 00:07:42.000
ago. It is it is scary, but I
00:07:42.000 –> 00:07:43.000
am absolutely convinced.
00:07:43.000 –> 00:07:44.000
My level of impact
00:07:45.000 –> 00:07:48.000
is directly correlated to the level of effort
00:07:48.000 –> 00:07:50.000
in the amount of time I grind at
00:07:50.000 –> 00:07:52.000
this thing I’m doing today, and that is
00:07:52.000 –> 00:07:55.000
no different than anybody else out there. Yeah.
00:07:55.000 –> 00:07:56.000
Well, do you think too you’re working in
00:07:56.000 –> 00:07:58.000
your brain in, you know, line with your
00:07:58.000 –> 00:07:59.000
values and your Gilliland
00:07:59.000 –> 00:08:02.000
and all those things, right, is you’re you’re
00:08:02.000 –> 00:08:04.000
not gonna ever get the impact. That you
00:08:04.000 –> 00:08:06.000
make now because you’re choosing the path that
00:08:06.000 –> 00:08:08.000
you’re going down. And I think there’s so
00:08:08.000 –> 00:08:09.000
much power in the word choice. I love
00:08:09.000 –> 00:08:11.000
that you’re saying that. But don’t you believe
00:08:11.000 –> 00:08:12.000
that?
00:08:13.000 –> 00:08:14.000
Yeah.
00:08:14.000 –> 00:08:16.000
Brett, I do believe it. And I think
00:08:16.000 –> 00:08:17.000
it’s even worse than the way you describe
00:08:17.000 –> 00:08:19.000
it because not only are you not your
00:08:19.000 –> 00:08:22.000
best self when you’re doing something that you
00:08:22.000 –> 00:08:24.000
are, you know, you don’t love or you’re
00:08:24.000 –> 00:08:25.000
not passionate about,
00:08:26.000 –> 00:08:27.000
most companies
00:08:28.000 –> 00:08:30.000
either directly or not.
00:08:30.000 –> 00:08:33.000
They filter you to the point where you
00:08:33.000 –> 00:08:35.000
can’t even be curious. You can’t even You
00:08:35.000 –> 00:08:37.000
know, there’s this concept of being an entrepreneur
00:08:37.000 –> 00:08:39.000
inside of the corporate world, which I think
00:08:39.000 –> 00:08:41.000
is a beautiful concept because you don’t accept
00:08:41.000 –> 00:08:43.000
the status quo. You’re always looking to innovate.
00:08:43.000 –> 00:08:45.000
You’re looking to do things differently. You want
00:08:45.000 –> 00:08:47.000
to have a great experience for your employees
00:08:47.000 –> 00:08:49.000
and your team, and your customers, by the
00:08:49.000 –> 00:08:49.000
way.
00:08:50.000 –> 00:08:53.000
But a lot of organizations, they they filter
00:08:53.000 –> 00:08:55.000
us and kinda dilute our impact to the
00:08:55.000 –> 00:08:56.000
point where
00:08:56.000 –> 00:08:59.000
we there’s no way to to find that
00:08:59.000 –> 00:09:00.000
passion. Because think of where I talk
00:09:01.000 –> 00:09:03.000
about this a lot, man. When we enter
00:09:03.000 –> 00:09:05.000
the workforce, Think back over for your journey
00:09:05.000 –> 00:09:07.000
and and and those that are listening to
00:09:07.000 –> 00:09:09.000
us or watching us now, we all enter
00:09:09.000 –> 00:09:11.000
the workforce with a tremendous amount of optimism.
00:09:12.000 –> 00:09:15.000
Excitement. We wanna have an impact. We wanna
00:09:15.000 –> 00:09:16.000
do big things.
00:09:17.000 –> 00:09:18.000
But most organizations
00:09:19.000 –> 00:09:21.000
don’t necessarily value that or at least not
00:09:21.000 –> 00:09:23.000
to the point where it challenges the status
00:09:23.000 –> 00:09:24.000
quo. It’s kinda like getting lying. Keep your
00:09:24.000 –> 00:09:26.000
head down and and move on. So If
00:09:26.000 –> 00:09:28.000
you’re if we’re, you know, for all of
00:09:28.000 –> 00:09:29.000
us, if we’re able to marry something that
00:09:29.000 –> 00:09:31.000
we’re passionate about
00:09:31.000 –> 00:09:32.000
with a way to make a living and
00:09:32.000 –> 00:09:34.000
support our family, you know, take a trip
00:09:34.000 –> 00:09:35.000
every now and then,
00:09:36.000 –> 00:09:36.000
that’s
00:09:37.000 –> 00:09:38.000
that is
00:09:39.000 –> 00:09:41.000
that’s happiness to me. And that is that’s
00:09:41.000 –> 00:09:43.000
something we should always fire to. But again,
00:09:43.000 –> 00:09:46.000
over time, you know, bills things mount up
00:09:46.000 –> 00:09:47.000
and we and we just don’t we lose
00:09:47.000 –> 00:09:49.000
sight of that opportunity, lose sight of the
00:09:49.000 –> 00:09:50.000
choice.
00:09:50.000 –> 00:09:50.000
Yeah.
00:09:51.000 –> 00:09:53.000
Yeah. You’re right. And I think, dude, it
00:09:53.000 –> 00:09:55.000
made me think about even your health. You
00:09:55.000 –> 00:09:56.000
know, for me, I I can’t speak to
00:09:56.000 –> 00:09:58.000
you, but for me, man, it was
00:09:59.000 –> 00:10:01.000
I was going down a path where I’ve
00:10:01.000 –> 00:10:02.000
always been an anxious person. I I was
00:10:02.000 –> 00:10:05.000
a nervous child, you know, I always before
00:10:05.000 –> 00:10:07.000
games or any big event, man. I was
00:10:07.000 –> 00:10:08.000
nervous. I was always nervous.
00:10:09.000 –> 00:10:09.000
And
00:10:10.000 –> 00:10:12.000
and that just kept going. And then as
00:10:12.000 –> 00:10:13.000
my career you know, I I would kinda
00:10:13.000 –> 00:10:15.000
battle through those things, but then I hit
00:10:15.000 –> 00:10:17.000
a point to where, you know, and I
00:10:17.000 –> 00:10:18.000
was having, like, a panic attack.
00:10:19.000 –> 00:10:20.000
And, you know, I did all the I
00:10:20.000 –> 00:10:22.000
went a Mayo Clinic and did an executive
00:10:22.000 –> 00:10:24.000
physical. It’s been all this money and, you
00:10:24.000 –> 00:10:26.000
know, hey, dude. You’re fine. I did that.
00:10:26.000 –> 00:10:27.000
And then I had a a guy that
00:10:27.000 –> 00:10:29.000
I would consider a friend, and and, hopefully,
00:10:29.000 –> 00:10:31.000
he hears this and maybe I’ll send it
00:10:31.000 –> 00:10:32.000
to him and tell him, but he he
00:10:32.000 –> 00:10:34.000
gave me some words that a doctor I
00:10:34.000 –> 00:10:36.000
don’t think normally uses, and I won’t share
00:10:36.000 –> 00:10:38.000
the words exactly, but what he told me
00:10:38.000 –> 00:10:40.000
what I needed to do
00:10:40.000 –> 00:10:40.000
And,
00:10:41.000 –> 00:10:43.000
and I needed to hear it, man. And
00:10:43.000 –> 00:10:45.000
I was I was just having panic attacks.
00:10:45.000 –> 00:10:47.000
And then when I learned about panic and
00:10:47.000 –> 00:10:48.000
anxiety and stress,
00:10:49.000 –> 00:10:51.000
I learned that I wasn’t living up to
00:10:51.000 –> 00:10:53.000
my potential and I wasn’t following the dreams
00:10:53.000 –> 00:10:55.000
and the passions that I had. So it
00:10:55.000 –> 00:10:58.000
was manifesting in other ways. And man, isn’t
00:10:58.000 –> 00:11:01.000
it amazing now? Almost ten years later,
00:11:02.000 –> 00:11:03.000
how different I feel.
00:11:04.000 –> 00:11:05.000
Right? Yeah. I mean, it’s just it’s incredible
00:11:05.000 –> 00:11:06.000
to me.
00:11:06.000 –> 00:11:08.000
That’s beautiful though. It’s it’s,
00:11:09.000 –> 00:11:11.000
it it is incredible, but,
00:11:11.000 –> 00:11:14.000
yeah, sorry, man. We’re just having some stepping
00:11:14.000 –> 00:11:15.000
on each other. There’s a bit of a
00:11:15.000 –> 00:11:17.000
delay again. Know we can hopefully, we can
00:11:17.000 –> 00:11:19.000
edit that out. But Yeah.
00:11:19.000 –> 00:11:21.000
I I I think it’s it’s no no
00:11:21.000 –> 00:11:23.000
question about it. When I made the decision
00:11:23.000 –> 00:11:26.000
to step away and really invest in myself,
00:11:26.000 –> 00:11:28.000
both from an energy and time perspective, but
00:11:28.000 –> 00:11:30.000
also a a dollars and cents perspective, because
00:11:30.000 –> 00:11:32.000
as you know, starting a business isn’t isn’t
00:11:32.000 –> 00:11:33.000
cheap, certainly not free.
00:11:35.000 –> 00:11:37.000
I was probably at my most unhealthy,
00:11:37.000 –> 00:11:38.000
physically,
00:11:39.000 –> 00:11:39.000
psychologically.
00:11:40.000 –> 00:11:42.000
I had just been just kinda worn down
00:11:42.000 –> 00:11:44.000
over the years, but it’s worse than that.
00:11:44.000 –> 00:11:46.000
I I I’m not embarrassed to say, and
00:11:46.000 –> 00:11:48.000
I’ve learned from this. My career cost me
00:11:48.000 –> 00:11:49.000
a marriage.
00:11:50.000 –> 00:11:51.000
I was working
00:11:51.000 –> 00:11:55.000
so so much traveling every single week for
00:11:55.000 –> 00:11:58.000
years on end that, as I mentioned earlier,
00:11:58.000 –> 00:12:00.000
it became my identity and so much so
00:12:00.000 –> 00:12:02.000
that that identity was not
00:12:02.000 –> 00:12:03.000
the husband I wanted to be. It wasn’t
00:12:03.000 –> 00:12:05.000
the friend I wanted to be.
00:12:06.000 –> 00:12:07.000
So that was also a a hell of
00:12:07.000 –> 00:12:10.000
a wake up call for me, which look,
00:12:10.000 –> 00:12:12.000
man. I’m not proud of that, but it’s
00:12:12.000 –> 00:12:15.000
it also is an experience that has taught
00:12:15.000 –> 00:12:17.000
me And I’m a better person for it,
00:12:17.000 –> 00:12:18.000
like everything else, I think, in life, any
00:12:18.000 –> 00:12:20.000
challenge on the other side, and that is
00:12:20.000 –> 00:12:23.000
hopefully a better, a better, better outcome.
00:12:25.000 –> 00:12:26.000
So what what right now when you look
00:12:26.000 –> 00:12:28.000
at your career and the things and the
00:12:28.000 –> 00:12:29.000
people you’re hell helping,
00:12:30.000 –> 00:12:32.000
what’s your biggest challenge or or I’ve been
00:12:32.000 –> 00:12:34.000
I’ve been calling lately the heads Like, what’s
00:12:34.000 –> 00:12:36.000
the head scratcher for you that it’s like,
00:12:36.000 –> 00:12:38.000
gah, you just wish you could reach across
00:12:38.000 –> 00:12:40.000
the table and let somebody understand that. What
00:12:40.000 –> 00:12:41.000
is it for you?
00:12:42.000 –> 00:12:44.000
It it’s without question. It is getting people
00:12:44.000 –> 00:12:47.000
to understand and believe that
00:12:48.000 –> 00:12:50.000
when you make choice to lead differently, maybe
00:12:50.000 –> 00:12:52.000
be the leader you never had when you
00:12:52.000 –> 00:12:54.000
invest time and energy in others
00:12:54.000 –> 00:12:55.000
more so
00:12:55.000 –> 00:12:56.000
than yourself.
00:12:56.000 –> 00:12:58.000
When you care less about
00:12:59.000 –> 00:13:01.000
your own personal, quote, success, however, you define
00:13:01.000 –> 00:13:03.000
that, and you invest that energy into others
00:13:03.000 –> 00:13:06.000
growth development success, their achievements,
00:13:07.000 –> 00:13:09.000
you two things happen. Well, number of things,
00:13:09.000 –> 00:13:10.000
but two things primarily kinda
00:13:11.000 –> 00:13:13.000
resonate with me. One is the results on
00:13:13.000 –> 00:13:15.000
the macro level, they come.
00:13:16.000 –> 00:13:16.000
So
00:13:16.000 –> 00:13:17.000
That
00:13:20.000 –> 00:13:21.000
switch
00:13:24.000 –> 00:13:27.000
You you you you you are overtly making
00:13:27.000 –> 00:13:29.000
a switch that you’re no longer focused on
00:13:29.000 –> 00:13:31.000
your own goal, your own goals, your own
00:13:31.000 –> 00:13:32.000
growth, your own success,
00:13:33.000 –> 00:13:35.000
You don’t lose sight of those things, but
00:13:35.000 –> 00:13:37.000
you focus that on those that you’re responsible
00:13:37.000 –> 00:13:38.000
to lead.
00:13:38.000 –> 00:13:41.000
The two things are they perform better. Your
00:13:41.000 –> 00:13:43.000
your team the overall macro results that you
00:13:43.000 –> 00:13:45.000
deliver are better without question.
00:13:46.000 –> 00:13:48.000
Yep. But the bigger component is the satisfaction
00:13:48.000 –> 00:13:48.000
and fulfillment that
00:13:50.000 –> 00:13:51.000
comes
00:13:51.000 –> 00:13:52.000
is
00:13:52.000 –> 00:13:52.000
profoundly
00:13:53.000 –> 00:13:54.000
exponentially greater
00:13:55.000 –> 00:13:55.000
than
00:13:56.000 –> 00:13:57.000
keeping the focus
00:13:57.000 –> 00:13:58.000
on yourself.
00:14:00.000 –> 00:14:02.000
Yep. I cannot agree. And when I say
00:14:02.000 –> 00:14:03.000
this,
00:14:03.000 –> 00:14:04.000
it’s it
00:14:05.000 –> 00:14:07.000
there’s a lot of skepticism in the room,
00:14:07.000 –> 00:14:08.000
and I have to admit
00:14:08.000 –> 00:14:10.000
If someone were to have approached me and
00:14:10.000 –> 00:14:12.000
said the same thing, like, focus less on
00:14:12.000 –> 00:14:14.000
you and more on everyone around you, you’ll
00:14:14.000 –> 00:14:16.000
benefit in ways that you could never have
00:14:16.000 –> 00:14:17.000
predicted
00:14:17.000 –> 00:14:18.000
I would have said it’s bullshit.
00:14:19.000 –> 00:14:21.000
So that that’s it. That’s the head scratcher
00:14:21.000 –> 00:14:23.000
for me, but I just if people were
00:14:23.000 –> 00:14:26.000
to understand and realize the value that comes
00:14:26.000 –> 00:14:27.000
with deprioritizing
00:14:27.000 –> 00:14:30.000
your own quote unquote success for others.
00:14:30.000 –> 00:14:32.000
I think not only would the corporate world
00:14:32.000 –> 00:14:34.000
be in a much better place. I think
00:14:34.000 –> 00:14:35.000
the world
00:14:35.000 –> 00:14:36.000
would be a better place.
00:14:38.000 –> 00:14:39.000
So that’s the head scratch. I love the
00:14:39.000 –> 00:14:41.000
way you frame it. That’s the head scratcher
00:14:41.000 –> 00:14:42.000
for me. One of the things I look
00:14:42.000 –> 00:14:44.000
at when I’m talking to other leaders or
00:14:44.000 –> 00:14:46.000
I hear somebody in the room talking, if
00:14:46.000 –> 00:14:47.000
I’m, you know, listening at a conference or
00:14:47.000 –> 00:14:50.000
whatever, when I hear the word I, Right?
00:14:50.000 –> 00:14:52.000
One of my biggest pet peeves is when
00:14:52.000 –> 00:14:54.000
they say, I, I did this. I did
00:14:54.000 –> 00:14:57.000
that. Like, like, none of my success is
00:14:57.000 –> 00:14:59.000
because of I only. Right? It’s because of
00:14:59.000 –> 00:15:01.000
we and the people I’ve got around me.
00:15:01.000 –> 00:15:03.000
Like, I couldn’t do what I do without
00:15:03.000 –> 00:15:05.000
amazing people. So it’s just a pet peeve
00:15:05.000 –> 00:15:06.000
of mine, and I’m sure that’s a big
00:15:06.000 –> 00:15:08.000
pet peeve of yours as well.
00:15:10.000 –> 00:15:11.000
One of the biggest.
00:15:13.000 –> 00:15:14.000
And what a shame too because there is
00:15:14.000 –> 00:15:16.000
so much spotlight to be had
00:15:17.000 –> 00:15:19.000
in life in general, certainly in the corporate
00:15:19.000 –> 00:15:19.000
world.
00:15:20.000 –> 00:15:21.000
And the good by the way, the goodwill
00:15:21.000 –> 00:15:24.000
that we gain by sharing in that spotlight,
00:15:24.000 –> 00:15:26.000
you know, even when I’m accepting something
00:15:26.000 –> 00:15:28.000
you know, personal type,
00:15:28.000 –> 00:15:31.000
accolade or award. It’s like, when you throw
00:15:31.000 –> 00:15:32.000
a we out there and it couldn’t have
00:15:32.000 –> 00:15:34.000
done it without the team, the goodwill we
00:15:34.000 –> 00:15:34.000
create
00:15:35.000 –> 00:15:35.000
is,
00:15:36.000 –> 00:15:37.000
it’s priceless.
00:15:39.000 –> 00:15:42.000
And it’s true, man. Nothing. Very little is
00:15:42.000 –> 00:15:44.000
done. From an I or me perspective,
00:15:45.000 –> 00:15:46.000
which
00:15:46.000 –> 00:15:48.000
is where I moved on to. We,
00:15:49.000 –> 00:15:50.000
back in, I guess, it was around two
00:15:50.000 –> 00:15:52.000
thousand sixteen, and that was the pivotal or
00:15:52.000 –> 00:15:55.000
sentinel moment in my leadership journey that’s forever
00:15:55.000 –> 00:15:57.000
changed me as a leader, certainly, but as
00:15:57.000 –> 00:15:59.000
a person as well. It’s it’s changed my
00:15:59.000 –> 00:16:01.000
life. Yep. So talk about the ten Wes.
00:16:01.000 –> 00:16:03.000
This is from your book. Again, Wall Street
00:16:03.000 –> 00:16:06.000
Journal and USA Today best selling book, begin
00:16:06.000 –> 00:16:09.000
with we. The ten principles for building and
00:16:09.000 –> 00:16:11.000
sustaining a culture of excellence. Who doesn’t want
00:16:11.000 –> 00:16:12.000
that?
00:16:13.000 –> 00:16:15.000
And so let’s talk about those though. You
00:16:15.000 –> 00:16:17.000
talk about it, the framework, the ten ways
00:16:17.000 –> 00:16:20.000
required for building and sustaining a culture of
00:16:20.000 –> 00:16:20.000
excellence.
00:16:21.000 –> 00:16:24.000
Yeah. So I’ll take you back to Lawrence,
00:16:24.000 –> 00:16:25.000
Kansas. Of all places,
00:16:26.000 –> 00:16:27.000
I love Lawrence, but it was it served
00:16:27.000 –> 00:16:29.000
as a really pivotal moment for me. I
00:16:29.000 –> 00:16:31.000
was, in my hotel room,
00:16:32.000 –> 00:16:35.000
I just accepted the role of leading about
00:16:35.000 –> 00:16:35.000
fifteen thousand really dedicated men and women. That
00:16:35.000 –> 00:16:36.000
that
00:16:40.000 –> 00:16:44.000
that staff, probably the world’s largest health insurance
00:16:44.000 –> 00:16:46.000
enrollment and customer service operation.
00:16:49.000 –> 00:16:51.000
The company I was I was not naive.
00:16:51.000 –> 00:16:52.000
It was shared very early on that there
00:16:52.000 –> 00:16:56.000
was, an opportunity to to kinda reinvigorate,
00:16:57.000 –> 00:16:58.000
some energy
00:16:58.000 –> 00:17:01.000
maybe do some work on the company culture.
00:17:02.000 –> 00:17:02.000
And,
00:17:03.000 –> 00:17:06.000
but I knew also having spent the previous
00:17:06.000 –> 00:17:07.000
twenty years in
00:17:08.000 –> 00:17:11.000
massive organizations, as you mentioned, fortune ten firms,
00:17:11.000 –> 00:17:13.000
that if I were to show up,
00:17:14.000 –> 00:17:15.000
with this group,
00:17:16.000 –> 00:17:18.000
and kinda talked about I and the success
00:17:18.000 –> 00:17:20.000
I had had because I always,
00:17:21.000 –> 00:17:24.000
throughout my career, there’s a flavor of transformation.
00:17:25.000 –> 00:17:26.000
I come in, fix something,
00:17:26.000 –> 00:17:29.000
fix a big, big team, fix a big
00:17:29.000 –> 00:17:30.000
org, you know, turn things around,
00:17:31.000 –> 00:17:33.000
which has always been a passion of mine.
00:17:33.000 –> 00:17:35.000
But I knew with this group had I
00:17:35.000 –> 00:17:38.000
entered with more of the I and me
00:17:38.000 –> 00:17:39.000
and kind of, you know, here’s what I’m
00:17:40.000 –> 00:17:41.000
here to do for you.
00:17:42.000 –> 00:17:43.000
It would not have worked because they’d heard
00:17:43.000 –> 00:17:45.000
it all before. I was not naive. The
00:17:45.000 –> 00:17:46.000
fellow who had the role before me was
00:17:46.000 –> 00:17:49.000
dismissed, and I believe the wall for him
00:17:49.000 –> 00:17:50.000
was awesome.
00:17:51.000 –> 00:17:52.000
And
00:17:52.000 –> 00:17:54.000
if you take into consideration,
00:17:54.000 –> 00:17:56.000
the team my direct reports,
00:17:57.000 –> 00:17:58.000
they had an average tenure of north of
00:17:58.000 –> 00:17:59.000
ten years.
00:17:59.000 –> 00:18:01.000
So here’s this new guy coming into the
00:18:01.000 –> 00:18:03.000
fold. Yeah. And
00:18:03.000 –> 00:18:05.000
and and to to approach it as if
00:18:05.000 –> 00:18:07.000
I was the savior would just not have
00:18:07.000 –> 00:18:09.000
resonated. So the night before, I was to
00:18:09.000 –> 00:18:11.000
meet with the top forty or fifty leaders
00:18:11.000 –> 00:18:11.000
of this organization
00:18:12.000 –> 00:18:14.000
in my hotel room in Lawrence, Kansas. I
00:18:14.000 –> 00:18:16.000
still had that day’s suit on. In my
00:18:16.000 –> 00:18:18.000
laptop and my lap, and I thought, okay.
00:18:18.000 –> 00:18:20.000
This is this is what you wanted. You
00:18:20.000 –> 00:18:22.000
wanted an opportunity to lead an organization and
00:18:22.000 –> 00:18:23.000
be the leader you never had. This is
00:18:23.000 –> 00:18:25.000
why you made this change. What are you
00:18:25.000 –> 00:18:25.000
gonna do?
00:18:26.000 –> 00:18:30.000
So with no pre planning or or motives
00:18:30.000 –> 00:18:32.000
or agenda in mind, I just started typing
00:18:32.000 –> 00:18:34.000
into this blank PowerPoint presentation and a couple
00:18:34.000 –> 00:18:36.000
hours later, I All I had was ten
00:18:36.000 –> 00:18:36.000
sentences,
00:18:38.000 –> 00:18:39.000
and each of them started with the word
00:18:39.000 –> 00:18:40.000
we.
00:18:40.000 –> 00:18:41.000
And,
00:18:41.000 –> 00:18:43.000
I’m not super creative, so I had the
00:18:43.000 –> 00:18:44.000
ten wes.
00:18:45.000 –> 00:18:46.000
But the point,
00:18:46.000 –> 00:18:47.000
of of
00:18:48.000 –> 00:18:50.000
the magic, I think, started. So the next
00:18:50.000 –> 00:18:52.000
morning, I I stepped out, spoke to the
00:18:52.000 –> 00:18:54.000
forty or fifty folks and AF, we’re really
00:18:54.000 –> 00:18:55.000
excited and on board.
00:18:56.000 –> 00:18:58.000
Quarter. We’re kind of skeptical, and the last
00:18:58.000 –> 00:19:00.000
quarter was just, like, this guy’s full of
00:19:00.000 –> 00:19:02.000
his nature here. So much so, by the
00:19:02.000 –> 00:19:03.000
way, I should add Brett that
00:19:04.000 –> 00:19:06.000
what yeah. One of the fellas was bold
00:19:06.000 –> 00:19:08.000
enough to share that evening that,
00:19:09.000 –> 00:19:10.000
he googled the ten week because he thought
00:19:10.000 –> 00:19:12.000
I had plagiarized them, and then he went
00:19:12.000 –> 00:19:14.000
another step further and asked for my presentation
00:19:14.000 –> 00:19:16.000
because he wanted to check the properties within
00:19:16.000 –> 00:19:18.000
PowerPoint to see if I was the creator
00:19:18.000 –> 00:19:20.000
of that deck. Or if I had stolen
00:19:20.000 –> 00:19:21.000
it from somewhere else.
00:19:22.000 –> 00:19:25.000
We’re still buddies. But the the the the
00:19:25.000 –> 00:19:27.000
I think the the highlight or the bump
00:19:27.000 –> 00:19:29.000
sticker of this part of the story is
00:19:29.000 –> 00:19:29.000
this.
00:19:30.000 –> 00:19:32.000
In my career, I noticed
00:19:32.000 –> 00:19:34.000
it all came together that night in Lawrence
00:19:34.000 –> 00:19:35.000
that
00:19:35.000 –> 00:19:39.000
Companies were were really excited about flaunting their
00:19:39.000 –> 00:19:41.000
mission statement. They were really excited about externally
00:19:41.000 –> 00:19:42.000
positioning their company externally in a way
00:19:45.000 –> 00:19:47.000
that is, you know, flattering or favorable or
00:19:47.000 –> 00:19:49.000
endears them to their clients.
00:19:50.000 –> 00:19:52.000
But what is what is is setting that
00:19:52.000 –> 00:19:54.000
same standard inside the organization.
00:19:55.000 –> 00:19:58.000
So for me, to document these ten principles
00:19:57.000 –> 00:19:59.000
Gilliland
00:19:59.000 –> 00:20:01.000
be very adamant and direct that these are
00:20:01.000 –> 00:20:03.000
our rules of the role. Of the road,
00:20:03.000 –> 00:20:05.000
non negotiable. I did the whole presentation in
00:20:05.000 –> 00:20:07.000
black and white, and still nearly every time
00:20:07.000 –> 00:20:08.000
it’s in black and white with some red
00:20:08.000 –> 00:20:10.000
sprinkled in because it can’t be negotiable.
00:20:10.000 –> 00:20:14.000
But these principles align us around a common
00:20:14.000 –> 00:20:16.000
cause. And and and
00:20:16.000 –> 00:20:17.000
they’re all we oriented.
00:20:18.000 –> 00:20:21.000
But what they do is they create kind
00:20:21.000 –> 00:20:21.000
of,
00:20:22.000 –> 00:20:24.000
force fields too dramatic, but I’ll go with
00:20:24.000 –> 00:20:27.000
it that insulates us from
00:20:27.000 –> 00:20:30.000
external headwinds. It it sets the table for
00:20:30.000 –> 00:20:32.000
who we are, how we operate, and it
00:20:32.000 –> 00:20:35.000
removes any ambiguity around the way that we
00:20:35.000 –> 00:20:38.000
treat each other first and then how we
00:20:38.000 –> 00:20:41.000
treat those that we serve externally. Gilliland
00:20:41.000 –> 00:20:43.000
and they’re they’re very purposeful in order in
00:20:43.000 –> 00:20:45.000
which they are,
00:20:45.000 –> 00:20:46.000
riveting,
00:20:46.000 –> 00:20:47.000
But at the end of the day, this
00:20:47.000 –> 00:20:50.000
entire monologue that I’m sharing with you was
00:20:50.000 –> 00:20:51.000
my way to,
00:20:53.000 –> 00:20:54.000
first,
00:20:54.000 –> 00:20:56.000
these are the principal
00:20:57.000 –> 00:20:58.000
me accountable.
00:20:58.000 –> 00:21:00.000
I led with that.
00:21:00.000 –> 00:21:01.000
Because I’d seen the leadership, what I call
00:21:01.000 –> 00:21:03.000
the leadership gap too many times, where the
00:21:03.000 –> 00:21:05.000
boss has a certain standard of behavior, and
00:21:05.000 –> 00:21:06.000
the team has another one. And I think
00:21:06.000 –> 00:21:08.000
right out of the gate, you’re destined for
00:21:08.000 –> 00:21:10.000
failure. If there’s a double standard in how
00:21:10.000 –> 00:21:11.000
we treat each other,
00:21:12.000 –> 00:21:14.000
the things I’m allowed to do versus the
00:21:14.000 –> 00:21:15.000
things you’re allowed to do. So, a, you
00:21:15.000 –> 00:21:17.000
must hold me accountable to these because, b,
00:21:17.000 –> 00:21:19.000
I will certainly hold you accountable to them.
00:21:19.000 –> 00:21:21.000
If you can’t subscribe to these principles,
00:21:22.000 –> 00:21:22.000
respect,
00:21:22.000 –> 00:21:24.000
you’re not gonna be a great fit for
00:21:24.000 –> 00:21:25.000
this team.
00:21:26.000 –> 00:21:27.000
So that that was the that was kind
00:21:27.000 –> 00:21:29.000
of the the sentinel moment that I shared
00:21:29.000 –> 00:21:32.000
the principles I I I I was not
00:21:32.000 –> 00:21:34.000
forceful in implementing them. I wanted the team
00:21:34.000 –> 00:21:36.000
to take to them gradually, and I’m so
00:21:36.000 –> 00:21:38.000
thrilled to share five, six years later,
00:21:39.000 –> 00:21:42.000
the, the ten Wes are still the the
00:21:42.000 –> 00:21:46.000
cultural man this giant organization many years ago.
00:21:47.000 –> 00:21:49.000
They have the ten We Awards where they
00:21:49.000 –> 00:21:49.000
share,
00:21:50.000 –> 00:21:53.000
and celebrate those that are caught living any
00:21:53.000 –> 00:21:54.000
one of the We’s.
00:21:55.000 –> 00:21:57.000
And I’ve been able to evangelize these principles
00:21:57.000 –> 00:21:58.000
more broadly now in companies,
00:21:59.000 –> 00:22:01.000
that I’m working with have embraced it. People
00:22:01.000 –> 00:22:03.000
have embraced it because it sets the the
00:22:03.000 –> 00:22:05.000
standard for who we are, how we operate,
00:22:07.000 –> 00:22:09.000
aside from some lofty mission statement that no
00:22:09.000 –> 00:22:11.000
one can really relate to on a day
00:22:11.000 –> 00:22:13.000
to day basis. Yeah. I love that, man.
00:22:13.000 –> 00:22:14.000
So let’s start with number one. What’s number
00:22:14.000 –> 00:22:15.000
one?
00:22:16.000 –> 00:22:18.000
Well, so I must give a disclaimer as
00:22:18.000 –> 00:22:19.000
we walk through these.
00:22:20.000 –> 00:22:22.000
I’m I’m certain. Members of your audience are
00:22:22.000 –> 00:22:24.000
gonna say, well, no shit. Of course, of
00:22:24.000 –> 00:22:26.000
course, we’re gonna do these things. But I
00:22:26.000 –> 00:22:28.000
right? I’m not naive to that, but I
00:22:28.000 –> 00:22:30.000
will I will add to that
00:22:30.000 –> 00:22:31.000
this point.
00:22:33.000 –> 00:22:34.000
When used collectively
00:22:35.000 –> 00:22:35.000
and evangelized
00:22:36.000 –> 00:22:39.000
and and can spicuously communicated over and over
00:22:39.000 –> 00:22:41.000
and over every single day. You know, for
00:22:41.000 –> 00:22:43.000
example, I wear a I wear a wii
00:22:43.000 –> 00:22:45.000
bracelet everywhere I go. This as we challenge.
00:22:45.000 –> 00:22:46.000
It’s gotta
00:22:46.000 –> 00:22:47.000
it’s gotta be memorable.
00:22:48.000 –> 00:22:50.000
It’s gotta be something we can lean against.
00:22:50.000 –> 00:22:52.000
Not just works on the wall. Number one
00:22:52.000 –> 00:22:53.000
Yep. Is we do the right thing.
00:22:54.000 –> 00:22:55.000
Always.
00:22:56.000 –> 00:22:58.000
And and you’ll you’ll you’ll you know, again,
00:22:58.000 –> 00:23:00.000
listeners might say, well, no shit. The the
00:23:00.000 –> 00:23:03.000
beauty behind this one is Once you evangelize
00:23:03.000 –> 00:23:04.000
it and we talk about it over and
00:23:04.000 –> 00:23:05.000
over again,
00:23:05.000 –> 00:23:07.000
when facing a tough decision,
00:23:07.000 –> 00:23:09.000
the team knows
00:23:10.000 –> 00:23:12.000
where we’re going. They are quick to even
00:23:12.000 –> 00:23:14.000
answer the question before you ask it because
00:23:14.000 –> 00:23:16.000
and and by the way, they’ll premise their
00:23:16.000 –> 00:23:18.000
response with I know Kyle, we do the
00:23:18.000 –> 00:23:20.000
right thing. Right? So we it it it
00:23:20.000 –> 00:23:22.000
removes any opportunity for us to do something
00:23:22.000 –> 00:23:25.000
that might be a little less than, quote,
00:23:25.000 –> 00:23:26.000
unquote, right. So we do the right thing
00:23:26.000 –> 00:23:28.000
is is number one. Everything’s a thousand parts
00:23:28.000 –> 00:23:31.000
without it. Yeah. I think to piggyback on
00:23:31.000 –> 00:23:31.000
that is,
00:23:32.000 –> 00:23:34.000
you know, the Ritz Carlton way, right, is
00:23:35.000 –> 00:23:37.000
I think I heard one time that each
00:23:37.000 –> 00:23:39.000
each member that’s working that day has, like,
00:23:39.000 –> 00:23:41.000
a two hundred or four hundred dollar budget
00:23:41.000 –> 00:23:42.000
or something like that that they can fix
00:23:42.000 –> 00:23:44.000
something. Without having to get approval. And I
00:23:44.000 –> 00:23:46.000
remember being there. One of my kids, I
00:23:46.000 –> 00:23:48.000
guess my oldest is eighteen. I was young.
00:23:49.000 –> 00:23:50.000
And we’re there and we get an ice
00:23:50.000 –> 00:23:52.000
cream cone, and we’re not six steps away
00:23:52.000 –> 00:23:54.000
from this place where we got the ice
00:23:54.000 –> 00:23:55.000
cream in there and it spills, of course.
00:23:55.000 –> 00:23:57.000
It goes all over the floor. And man,
00:23:57.000 –> 00:24:00.000
those people were like around that thing.
00:24:00.000 –> 00:24:03.000
So quick. Got it cleaned up. Boom. Here’s
00:24:03.000 –> 00:24:03.000
a new ice cream.
00:24:04.000 –> 00:24:06.000
Right? I mean, like, it was amazing. And
00:24:06.000 –> 00:24:08.000
so I think that’s what I think of
00:24:08.000 –> 00:24:09.000
when I hear that we do the right
00:24:09.000 –> 00:24:11.000
thing always. Right? We do the right thing
00:24:11.000 –> 00:24:13.000
always. That’s that’s number one. That’s awesome.
00:24:15.000 –> 00:24:17.000
Yeah. It’s the foundation. It’s the foundation. But
00:24:17.000 –> 00:24:18.000
if you wanna do the right thing and
00:24:18.000 –> 00:24:19.000
you want your team to do the right
00:24:19.000 –> 00:24:22.000
thing. For me, that takes us right to
00:24:22.000 –> 00:24:24.000
number two, and that is we lead by
00:24:24.000 –> 00:24:24.000
example.
00:24:25.000 –> 00:24:28.000
We’re already setting an example. The question to
00:24:28.000 –> 00:24:30.000
the question is not should we lead by
00:24:30.000 –> 00:24:32.000
example. The question is am I leading by
00:24:32.000 –> 00:24:34.000
an example? I’d be proud for others to
00:24:34.000 –> 00:24:36.000
see. If it were blast all over the
00:24:36.000 –> 00:24:39.000
intranet, the company intranet, or the newsletter, or
00:24:39.000 –> 00:24:40.000
even worse externally,
00:24:41.000 –> 00:24:43.000
is my behavior something that I’m proud of?
00:24:43.000 –> 00:24:45.000
Is it am I leading in a way
00:24:45.000 –> 00:24:46.000
that others want to follow?
00:24:47.000 –> 00:24:49.000
And again, you know, I I would imagine
00:24:49.000 –> 00:24:51.000
some listeners are saying, well, she wanna lead
00:24:51.000 –> 00:24:52.000
by example, but it’s not the big things
00:24:52.000 –> 00:24:54.000
that I’m talking about. When I walk through
00:24:54.000 –> 00:24:56.000
the hallway, you know, when I’m on-site or
00:24:56.000 –> 00:24:59.000
at a location, is my head down in
00:24:59.000 –> 00:24:59.000
my phone?
00:25:00.000 –> 00:25:01.000
Or am I is my head up saying,
00:25:01.000 –> 00:25:03.000
hey, Brett. Good morning. Nice to see you.
00:25:04.000 –> 00:25:06.000
You know, that’s that’s an example that must
00:25:06.000 –> 00:25:07.000
be set. Right? I’ll tell you a quick
00:25:07.000 –> 00:25:08.000
story, and I’ll and then we can move
00:25:08.000 –> 00:25:09.000
on. But,
00:25:09.000 –> 00:25:11.000
I I used to visit one of the
00:25:11.000 –> 00:25:11.000
locations,
00:25:12.000 –> 00:25:14.000
back in the the teens when,
00:25:15.000 –> 00:25:17.000
I’d I’d eleven locations at the time when
00:25:17.000 –> 00:25:19.000
these principals rolled out. One of the locations
00:25:19.000 –> 00:25:22.000
invariably, every time I would go, the men’s
00:25:22.000 –> 00:25:24.000
restroom, the counter where you wash your hands,
00:25:24.000 –> 00:25:26.000
had standing water every single time I went
00:25:26.000 –> 00:25:28.000
there. It was drive you crazy.
00:25:29.000 –> 00:25:30.000
And I just, you know, I’d like every
00:25:30.000 –> 00:25:32.000
other fellow in there, wash my hands, throw
00:25:32.000 –> 00:25:33.000
my paper towel away and walk out. But
00:25:33.000 –> 00:25:35.000
it occurred to me.
00:25:35.000 –> 00:25:37.000
I am sending the message anytime I’m in
00:25:37.000 –> 00:25:39.000
there washing my hands next to somebody else,
00:25:39.000 –> 00:25:40.000
it finally occurred to me that I am
00:25:40.000 –> 00:25:43.000
sending the message that it’s okay. We are
00:25:43.000 –> 00:25:45.000
accepting this puddled water.
00:25:45.000 –> 00:25:47.000
And I and and the leader doesn’t care
00:25:47.000 –> 00:25:49.000
about our work environment. That’s the message I’m
00:25:49.000 –> 00:25:51.000
sending if I don’t. So now
00:25:52.000 –> 00:25:54.000
when the re realization hit me, and I
00:25:54.000 –> 00:25:55.000
was in
00:25:55.000 –> 00:25:57.000
My hands dry off. I would take extra
00:25:57.000 –> 00:26:00.000
napkins and wipe down that basin every single
00:26:00.000 –> 00:26:02.000
time. And wouldn’t you know it? After a
00:26:02.000 –> 00:26:03.000
number of visits there,
00:26:04.000 –> 00:26:05.000
the water was gone.
00:26:05.000 –> 00:26:07.000
Not because of me, people were coming behind
00:26:07.000 –> 00:26:09.000
me doing the same thing. Yep. So it’s
00:26:09.000 –> 00:26:11.000
not just, you know, the shiniest shoes. I
00:26:11.000 –> 00:26:13.000
got the most vocabulary, not leading by example
00:26:13.000 –> 00:26:15.000
in those ways. I’m leading by example by
00:26:15.000 –> 00:26:18.000
being relatable to those I work with, setting
00:26:18.000 –> 00:26:20.000
an example that they want to follow, and
00:26:20.000 –> 00:26:23.000
and and showing the importance of our interactions,
00:26:24.000 –> 00:26:26.000
not just you are here to to produce
00:26:26.000 –> 00:26:28.000
a widget for me. So that’s the kind
00:26:28.000 –> 00:26:30.000
of example I wanna be known for. Yeah.
00:26:30.000 –> 00:26:32.000
Amen into that, man. I think Mother Teresa
00:26:32.000 –> 00:26:33.000
said it, and then I’ll joke my buddy
00:26:33.000 –> 00:26:35.000
Tom Meyer at a soccer game recently said
00:26:35.000 –> 00:26:38.000
it too. Sweeper own front porch. Right? So
00:26:38.000 –> 00:26:40.000
see my buddies that were on this trip
00:26:40.000 –> 00:26:41.000
will know and it was a it was
00:26:41.000 –> 00:26:43.000
a great time. But, you know, sweep your
00:26:43.000 –> 00:26:45.000
own front porch. Man, that’s that’s what you’re
00:26:45.000 –> 00:26:47.000
doing right there. So that’s awesome.
00:26:47.000 –> 00:26:48.000
What’s number three?
00:26:49.000 –> 00:26:51.000
So we go so if you wanna do
00:26:51.000 –> 00:26:51.000
the right thing,
00:26:52.000 –> 00:26:54.000
and and if we agree that leading by
00:26:54.000 –> 00:26:56.000
example, it’s tough to do that,
00:26:57.000 –> 00:26:59.000
any team, we’ve gotta make good in our
00:26:59.000 –> 00:27:01.000
commitments. So we number three is we say
00:27:01.000 –> 00:27:02.000
what we’re going to do
00:27:03.000 –> 00:27:04.000
then we do it.
00:27:04.000 –> 00:27:06.000
So anytime you’re in a team environment, there
00:27:06.000 –> 00:27:08.000
are others that are counting on you to
00:27:08.000 –> 00:27:11.000
deliver something, especially in corporate America.
00:27:11.000 –> 00:27:13.000
And what I have found, a lot of
00:27:13.000 –> 00:27:16.000
breakdown and disappointment that our customers experience
00:27:16.000 –> 00:27:17.000
oftentimes
00:27:17.000 –> 00:27:19.000
are the result of a breakdown or a
00:27:19.000 –> 00:27:22.000
lack of communication or delivery behind the curtain
00:27:22.000 –> 00:27:23.000
here in the here on the on the
00:27:23.000 –> 00:27:26.000
team. So we we’ve just gotta be known,
00:27:26.000 –> 00:27:28.000
you know, every high functioning team needs to
00:27:28.000 –> 00:27:31.000
be known for and is usually associated with
00:27:31.000 –> 00:27:33.000
do, you know, making good in our commitments.
00:27:33.000 –> 00:27:34.000
When I tell you I’m going to deliver
00:27:34.000 –> 00:27:36.000
something to you as a member of my
00:27:36.000 –> 00:27:38.000
team, it’s coming. When you tell me that
00:27:38.000 –> 00:27:39.000
you’re gonna deliver something to me as a
00:27:39.000 –> 00:27:41.000
member of my team, it must come.
00:27:42.000 –> 00:27:44.000
And and that was, you know, the scenario
00:27:44.000 –> 00:27:44.000
there
00:27:45.000 –> 00:27:46.000
to drive me crazy.
00:27:46.000 –> 00:27:47.000
It’s,
00:27:47.000 –> 00:27:49.000
you know, Brett, you and I had a
00:27:49.000 –> 00:27:51.000
conversation. I agreed to deliver something to you
00:27:51.000 –> 00:27:53.000
by Thursday at noon.
00:27:53.000 –> 00:27:55.000
Thursday at noon rolls around. You call me.
00:27:55.000 –> 00:27:57.000
You’re, like, Kyle, what’s up? Where’s that report?
00:27:57.000 –> 00:27:59.000
And my response to you as well, I
00:27:59.000 –> 00:28:00.000
reached out to Jane in accounting. I just
00:28:00.000 –> 00:28:02.000
haven’t heard back from her. That’s not good
00:28:02.000 –> 00:28:03.000
enough.
00:28:03.000 –> 00:28:05.000
So I committed something to you, brother. I
00:28:05.000 –> 00:28:07.000
gotta get that to you, and I will
00:28:07.000 –> 00:28:08.000
go to the end of the earth to
00:28:08.000 –> 00:28:10.000
get that for you. Or I will give
00:28:10.000 –> 00:28:11.000
you a heads up before Thursday at noon
00:28:11.000 –> 00:28:13.000
that this is not happening, we’re a bit
00:28:13.000 –> 00:28:15.000
delayed. But I have found, especially in bigger
00:28:15.000 –> 00:28:17.000
organizations, there’s this, you know,
00:28:17.000 –> 00:28:19.000
point back and forth because I, you know,
00:28:19.000 –> 00:28:20.000
I I did my part. I made the
00:28:20.000 –> 00:28:22.000
request. No. No. No. Your part was hitting
00:28:22.000 –> 00:28:23.000
your commitment.
00:28:24.000 –> 00:28:26.000
So leading by example, I think the best
00:28:26.000 –> 00:28:28.000
way to do that is by setting
00:28:28.000 –> 00:28:29.000
a target,
00:28:29.000 –> 00:28:31.000
going after that target, making good on our
00:28:31.000 –> 00:28:32.000
commitments,
00:28:32.000 –> 00:28:34.000
because we’re only as good as the commitments
00:28:34.000 –> 00:28:36.000
we keep. I that’s that’s truly how I
00:28:36.000 –> 00:28:38.000
believe that. That’s why number three is is
00:28:38.000 –> 00:28:41.000
where it’s ranked so high because if we
00:28:41.000 –> 00:28:42.000
can’t deliver on on the commitments that we
00:28:42.000 –> 00:28:45.000
make, especially as the leader to our team,
00:28:46.000 –> 00:28:48.000
There’s no and we’re not trust. We are
00:28:48.000 –> 00:28:49.000
no tall.
00:28:49.000 –> 00:28:51.000
Love it. So far I’m gonna lie. I’m
00:28:51.000 –> 00:28:53.000
three for three, brother. What do we got?
00:28:53.000 –> 00:28:53.000
Number four?
00:28:55.000 –> 00:28:57.000
I love that. Alright. I’ll keep rolling. So
00:28:57.000 –> 00:28:59.000
if we’re gonna do the right thing, we’re
00:28:59.000 –> 00:29:02.000
gonna lead by example, and we’re gonna make
00:29:02.000 –> 00:29:04.000
good in our commitments. That means the very
00:29:04.000 –> 00:29:05.000
next step is we gotta take action.
00:29:06.000 –> 00:29:08.000
So when we see an opportunity to be
00:29:08.000 –> 00:29:11.000
better, when we see maybe a broken process
00:29:11.000 –> 00:29:14.000
or You know, we have a disgruntled customer
00:29:14.000 –> 00:29:15.000
because of a process that we we we
00:29:15.000 –> 00:29:18.000
just know is is too too taxing or
00:29:18.000 –> 00:29:21.000
whatever the scenario is, we gotta take action.
00:29:23.000 –> 00:29:25.000
Especially in bigger organizations, and it’s true of
00:29:25.000 –> 00:29:26.000
all the organizations
00:29:26.000 –> 00:29:28.000
of all size, but especially bigger ones, there
00:29:28.000 –> 00:29:30.000
is safety in silence
00:29:31.000 –> 00:29:33.000
And what that means is we often we
00:29:33.000 –> 00:29:36.000
often see opportunities for improvement, but we don’t
00:29:36.000 –> 00:29:38.000
take action on them usually for one of
00:29:38.000 –> 00:29:39.000
two reasons.
00:29:40.000 –> 00:29:41.000
If I raise my hand and say, hey,
00:29:41.000 –> 00:29:43.000
boss, we got an opportunity to refine this
00:29:43.000 –> 00:29:44.000
process.
00:29:45.000 –> 00:29:47.000
Usually, I’m gonna be greeted with more work.
00:29:50.000 –> 00:29:52.000
Where’s the incentive to do that? And then
00:29:52.000 –> 00:29:54.000
the second component of of why this is
00:29:54.000 –> 00:29:56.000
so hard for so many to grasp is
00:29:56.000 –> 00:29:57.000
not only am I gonna be asked to
00:29:57.000 –> 00:29:59.000
do the work, but if I stumble
00:29:59.000 –> 00:30:02.000
or my existing workload is compromised, I’m gonna
00:30:02.000 –> 00:30:04.000
get beaten over the head with this thing
00:30:04.000 –> 00:30:05.000
that I surfaced, which was really an attempt
00:30:05.000 –> 00:30:07.000
to make us better. So there’s no incentive
00:30:08.000 –> 00:30:10.000
in most organizations to raise my hand and
00:30:10.000 –> 00:30:12.000
say, that doesn’t make sense. Why are we
00:30:12.000 –> 00:30:14.000
doing that? I need to take a look
00:30:14.000 –> 00:30:15.000
at that. And let me address that for
00:30:15.000 –> 00:30:16.000
us.
00:30:16.000 –> 00:30:18.000
There’s no incentive. So stay in your lane
00:30:18.000 –> 00:30:20.000
is kind of the thought that comes to
00:30:20.000 –> 00:30:21.000
mind. But in a culture of excellence,
00:30:22.000 –> 00:30:25.000
when we really wanna be excellent and be
00:30:25.000 –> 00:30:28.000
high functioning, high performing team, we can’t
00:30:28.000 –> 00:30:30.000
we cannot walk by opportunities for improvement.
00:30:31.000 –> 00:30:33.000
You know, the old TSA adage comes to
00:30:33.000 –> 00:30:34.000
mind see something, say something. Well, in this
00:30:34.000 –> 00:30:36.000
world, it’s when you if you see something,
00:30:36.000 –> 00:30:37.000
do something.
00:30:38.000 –> 00:30:39.000
Because
00:30:39.000 –> 00:30:42.000
in today’s ultra competitive environment in almost every
00:30:42.000 –> 00:30:44.000
industry, If we allow those mediocre,
00:30:46.000 –> 00:30:47.000
things,
00:30:47.000 –> 00:30:49.000
or the status quo Sam, as I call
00:30:49.000 –> 00:30:52.000
it, if we allow those we will get
00:30:52.000 –> 00:30:53.000
laughed by our
00:30:53.000 –> 00:30:55.000
and we will not be here. So it’s
00:30:55.000 –> 00:30:57.000
important to recognize where there’s something to do.
00:30:57.000 –> 00:30:58.000
We gotta do it.
00:30:59.000 –> 00:31:02.000
But when when when if you want your
00:31:02.000 –> 00:31:04.000
team to take action and you want people
00:31:04.000 –> 00:31:06.000
to recognize that there’s a way to be
00:31:06.000 –> 00:31:07.000
better and we have a chance to be
00:31:07.000 –> 00:31:07.000
better,
00:31:08.000 –> 00:31:09.000
The only way to get them to do
00:31:09.000 –> 00:31:11.000
that is to create an environment where they’re
00:31:11.000 –> 00:31:13.000
comfortable making mistakes.
00:31:14.000 –> 00:31:15.000
And that takes us to to we number
00:31:15.000 –> 00:31:17.000
five. We own our mistakes.
00:31:18.000 –> 00:31:19.000
So if I’m in an environment where team
00:31:19.000 –> 00:31:21.000
says, for the team is well aware, they
00:31:21.000 –> 00:31:24.000
are tasked, empowered, and obligated
00:31:24.000 –> 00:31:27.000
to identify ways for us to be better,
00:31:27.000 –> 00:31:29.000
we gotta allow them the safety to make
00:31:29.000 –> 00:31:31.000
a mistake trying to make it better.
00:31:31.000 –> 00:31:33.000
Because again, where’s the incentive if we’re just
00:31:33.000 –> 00:31:35.000
gonna beat them over the head? So So
00:31:36.000 –> 00:31:37.000
the culture of excellence says,
00:31:38.000 –> 00:31:40.000
for us to be great, we’re gonna make
00:31:40.000 –> 00:31:43.000
mistakes. Everyone knows that. We’re gonna own those
00:31:43.000 –> 00:31:44.000
mistakes because I think we talked about it
00:31:44.000 –> 00:31:46.000
at the top of the call. Those challenges
00:31:46.000 –> 00:31:49.000
and those mistakes result in growth. And we
00:31:49.000 –> 00:31:50.000
wanna be better.
00:31:50.000 –> 00:31:51.000
We gotta try.
00:31:53.000 –> 00:31:54.000
Fail. That’s life,
00:31:55.000 –> 00:31:57.000
but we gotta try to go. We’re gonna
00:31:57.000 –> 00:31:59.000
own our mistakes. And and the sooner the
00:31:59.000 –> 00:32:00.000
team is aware,
00:32:00.000 –> 00:32:02.000
that you as the leader will be there
00:32:03.000 –> 00:32:05.000
with your handout stretched to help them
00:32:06.000 –> 00:32:08.000
get up and move on to the next
00:32:08.000 –> 00:32:10.000
So the next thing, the more likely they
00:32:10.000 –> 00:32:12.000
are to take action and own the mistake
00:32:12.000 –> 00:32:14.000
that comes with that action being taken.
00:32:16.000 –> 00:32:18.000
I’m a note taking machine, brother. You can
00:32:18.000 –> 00:32:18.000
see that.
00:32:19.000 –> 00:32:21.000
Hey. I’m just taking notes. I love it.
00:32:21.000 –> 00:32:23.000
It’s great. It’s great. Do you do the
00:32:23.000 –> 00:32:25.000
right thing? Lead by examples. We say what
00:32:25.000 –> 00:32:27.000
we’re gonna do and we do it. We
00:32:27.000 –> 00:32:28.000
take, we take action.
00:32:29.000 –> 00:32:30.000
We own our mistakes.
00:32:31.000 –> 00:32:32.000
Lead us to number six.
00:32:33.000 –> 00:32:35.000
Yeah. And they there’s the continuum here. So
00:32:35.000 –> 00:32:37.000
when when the team feels comfortable to raise
00:32:37.000 –> 00:32:38.000
their hand and say I made a mistake,
00:32:38.000 –> 00:32:40.000
they’re only gonna do that when they know
00:32:40.000 –> 00:32:42.000
they’re in an environment where we six exists,
00:32:42.000 –> 00:32:44.000
and that is we pick each other up.
00:32:45.000 –> 00:32:47.000
We pick each other up. Look, we’re all
00:32:47.000 –> 00:32:49.000
coming to the workplace, whether it be verb
00:32:49.000 –> 00:32:52.000
or or in person with baggage. You know,
00:32:52.000 –> 00:32:53.000
we’ve all got things going on outside of
00:32:53.000 –> 00:32:54.000
work.
00:32:54.000 –> 00:32:56.000
We’ve got things going on inside of work.
00:32:58.000 –> 00:33:00.000
It’s not often we bring our very best
00:33:00.000 –> 00:33:03.000
self to our job. It’s not. We’d like
00:33:03.000 –> 00:33:05.000
to think it is and allow environments will
00:33:05.000 –> 00:33:08.000
demand that and not be understanding that sometimes
00:33:08.000 –> 00:33:10.000
life gets in the way. So we pick
00:33:10.000 –> 00:33:12.000
each other up as critical because If we’re
00:33:12.000 –> 00:33:15.000
gonna own our mistakes from action being taken,
00:33:15.000 –> 00:33:17.000
we we have to know that others have
00:33:17.000 –> 00:33:19.000
our back, especially the leader.
00:33:20.000 –> 00:33:22.000
But there’s two components here. I wanna I
00:33:22.000 –> 00:33:24.000
wanna kinda bifurcate between the two.
00:33:25.000 –> 00:33:27.000
Owning the mistake
00:33:27.000 –> 00:33:28.000
is critical
00:33:29.000 –> 00:33:31.000
for picking each other up. So we don’t
00:33:31.000 –> 00:33:32.000
we can’t help someone if we don’t know
00:33:32.000 –> 00:33:35.000
that they’re struggling. Right? The results may show
00:33:35.000 –> 00:33:37.000
it, but not everybody sees those results. So
00:33:37.000 –> 00:33:38.000
all members of the team don’t see all
00:33:38.000 –> 00:33:41.000
members of the team’s position. And that is
00:33:41.000 –> 00:33:43.000
propel members on your team and those around
00:33:43.000 –> 00:33:45.000
you to new heights. I don’t believe it’s
00:33:45.000 –> 00:33:47.000
just enough for the boss
00:33:47.000 –> 00:33:48.000
or the leader in this case
00:33:49.000 –> 00:33:49.000
to
00:33:50.000 –> 00:33:52.000
get members of their team to be high
00:33:52.000 –> 00:33:54.000
performing at what they do now. I think
00:33:54.000 –> 00:33:56.000
a great leader helps them develop to take
00:33:56.000 –> 00:33:58.000
on their next role, even if, by the
00:33:58.000 –> 00:34:01.000
way, even if that role is outside of
00:34:01.000 –> 00:34:03.000
my team, outside of the organization even.
00:34:04.000 –> 00:34:04.000
Because
00:34:05.000 –> 00:34:06.000
if I if if the team members
00:34:07.000 –> 00:34:09.000
if if members of the team know that
00:34:09.000 –> 00:34:11.000
me as their leader, I’m really invested in
00:34:11.000 –> 00:34:13.000
their journey. Really invested in their growth. I
00:34:13.000 –> 00:34:15.000
want them to be their best, not just
00:34:15.000 –> 00:34:17.000
so I can deliver great results for my
00:34:17.000 –> 00:34:18.000
team. I want them to be their best
00:34:18.000 –> 00:34:20.000
because I wanna be a good human, I
00:34:20.000 –> 00:34:22.000
wanna be surrounded by people that that are
00:34:22.000 –> 00:34:23.000
their best.
00:34:23.000 –> 00:34:25.000
And I take this so seriously that I’ve
00:34:25.000 –> 00:34:27.000
had members of my teams throughout the years
00:34:27.000 –> 00:34:29.000
come to me and say they’ve had opportune
00:34:29.000 –> 00:34:31.000
they’ve got opportunities to join other companies. They’ve
00:34:31.000 –> 00:34:34.000
got, they’re eyeing and opening somewhere else. I
00:34:34.000 –> 00:34:36.000
help them get that next job. I help
00:34:36.000 –> 00:34:38.000
them. We’ll do mock interviews. I’ll work with
00:34:38.000 –> 00:34:39.000
you on your whatever
00:34:40.000 –> 00:34:41.000
you need because an off chain role
00:34:44.000 –> 00:34:46.000
The connection and goodwill that we’ve now established
00:34:46.000 –> 00:34:48.000
because I’ve proven to you, I really care
00:34:48.000 –> 00:34:50.000
more about you than your results, is profound.
00:34:51.000 –> 00:34:52.000
And that’s happened to me a number of
00:34:52.000 –> 00:34:55.000
times, helping someone leave the company. They’ve either
00:34:55.000 –> 00:34:57.000
gotten their role or they haven’t, but when
00:34:57.000 –> 00:34:58.000
they when they when they return back to
00:34:59.000 –> 00:35:00.000
to to to this team,
00:35:01.000 –> 00:35:03.000
the commitment they have until the next opportunity
00:35:03.000 –> 00:35:05.000
comes around. I’m not naive is is stronger.
00:35:07.000 –> 00:35:09.000
I think it’s true. We all want to
00:35:09.000 –> 00:35:11.000
be appreciated for what we do,
00:35:11.000 –> 00:35:13.000
and the the value that we bring, but
00:35:13.000 –> 00:35:15.000
not in a moment in time. The value
00:35:15.000 –> 00:35:18.000
that we bring is exponential over time, we
00:35:18.000 –> 00:35:19.000
need to we need to encourage people to
00:35:19.000 –> 00:35:21.000
be there as to whether that’s with us
00:35:21.000 –> 00:35:23.000
or somewhere else. Yep.
00:35:23.000 –> 00:35:25.000
So that’s that’s been a mentality. Pick each
00:35:25.000 –> 00:35:26.000
other up.
00:35:26.000 –> 00:35:28.000
It’s abundance mentality versus scarcity.
00:35:29.000 –> 00:35:31.000
Amen. Right? And,
00:35:31.000 –> 00:35:33.000
you know, there’s this thing inside of the
00:35:33.000 –> 00:35:36.000
corporate world where for someone to win someone
00:35:36.000 –> 00:35:38.000
else must lose, and I just think that’s
00:35:38.000 –> 00:35:38.000
garbage.
00:35:39.000 –> 00:35:41.000
So the more we can pick each other
00:35:41.000 –> 00:35:41.000
up,
00:35:42.000 –> 00:35:44.000
along on their journey. Not only do we
00:35:44.000 –> 00:35:46.000
help someone else, but it just feels
00:35:47.000 –> 00:35:49.000
good to help someone else along their way.
00:35:51.000 –> 00:35:53.000
So I admit the first six of the
00:35:53.000 –> 00:35:54.000
wheeze are, are more foundational in
00:35:55.000 –> 00:35:55.000
nature
00:35:58.000 –> 00:36:00.000
and and they kinda set the table for
00:36:00.000 –> 00:36:03.000
who we are. But as we move, seven
00:36:03.000 –> 00:36:05.000
through ten, you’ll notice that the wies become
00:36:06.000 –> 00:36:07.000
a a little more,
00:36:07.000 –> 00:36:09.000
difficult for some to grasp,
00:36:09.000 –> 00:36:11.000
maybe a little more controversial.
00:36:12.000 –> 00:36:14.000
You know, that’s a relative term. But also
00:36:14.000 –> 00:36:16.000
I believe this is where we we we
00:36:16.000 –> 00:36:18.000
we pivot to steal from Collins, from good
00:36:18.000 –> 00:36:19.000
to great.
00:36:19.000 –> 00:36:22.000
Yeah. And and we number seven is we
00:36:22.000 –> 00:36:24.000
measure ourselves by out comes,
00:36:24.000 –> 00:36:24.000
period,
00:36:25.000 –> 00:36:26.000
not activity.
00:36:27.000 –> 00:36:28.000
And I’m sure you’ve seen it in your
00:36:28.000 –> 00:36:30.000
business and throughout your career,
00:36:31.000 –> 00:36:33.000
And it’s gotten worse, I think, over time,
00:36:33.000 –> 00:36:35.000
where in the corporate world, we we give
00:36:35.000 –> 00:36:37.000
out what amounts to participation
00:36:38.000 –> 00:36:38.000
ribbons.
00:36:40.000 –> 00:36:42.000
And and that to me is is it
00:36:42.000 –> 00:36:44.000
dilutes the impact of delivering
00:36:44.000 –> 00:36:45.000
great results.
00:36:46.000 –> 00:36:49.000
We wear the number of we had every
00:36:49.000 –> 00:36:50.000
day as a badge of honor. If I’m
00:36:50.000 –> 00:36:52.000
double book triple book, like, that’s that’s supposed
00:36:52.000 –> 00:36:53.000
to impress people.
00:36:55.000 –> 00:36:56.000
But that’s not what the client or our
00:36:56.000 –> 00:36:59.000
customers that’s not why they pay us. They
00:36:59.000 –> 00:37:00.000
pay us for the outcome.
00:37:01.000 –> 00:37:03.000
So what I’ve noticed throughout my what I
00:37:03.000 –> 00:37:05.000
notice throughout my career was a lot of
00:37:05.000 –> 00:37:07.000
people run around very busy engaged in a
00:37:07.000 –> 00:37:08.000
lot of activities,
00:37:08.000 –> 00:37:11.000
but they’re busy for busy’s, you know, sake
00:37:11.000 –> 00:37:11.000
of busyness.
00:37:12.000 –> 00:37:14.000
What I like to challenge people to do
00:37:14.000 –> 00:37:16.000
is identify a handful of things for which
00:37:16.000 –> 00:37:19.000
you’re being judged or you’re held accountable, right,
00:37:19.000 –> 00:37:21.000
that are on your performance appraisal.
00:37:21.000 –> 00:37:23.000
List of tasks that you’re obligated to deliver
00:37:23.000 –> 00:37:26.000
on whatever the time frequency is, weekly, monthly,
00:37:26.000 –> 00:37:26.000
whatever.
00:37:27.000 –> 00:37:28.000
And and then evaluate
00:37:28.000 –> 00:37:30.000
all of your activities
00:37:30.000 –> 00:37:32.000
every meeting you’re participating in. And if those
00:37:32.000 –> 00:37:34.000
meetings and those activities
00:37:34.000 –> 00:37:37.000
don’t directly connect to those outcomes that you’ve
00:37:37.000 –> 00:37:38.000
been assigned,
00:37:38.000 –> 00:37:40.000
or that the outcomes that you’re, you know,
00:37:40.000 –> 00:37:43.000
tasked to deliver, scrutinize them. Why am I
00:37:43.000 –> 00:37:44.000
doing this? Why am I in this meeting?
00:37:44.000 –> 00:37:46.000
Why am I asked to do this, if
00:37:46.000 –> 00:37:48.000
it doesn’t lead to that. There’s a caveat.
00:37:48.000 –> 00:37:51.000
I’m not naive. Compliance. We have legal things.
00:37:51.000 –> 00:37:52.000
There are gut things that we have to
00:37:52.000 –> 00:37:53.000
do that you may not be able to
00:37:53.000 –> 00:37:55.000
draw a straight a straight line. To that
00:37:55.000 –> 00:37:57.000
outcome, but that’s the exception. I think the
00:37:57.000 –> 00:37:58.000
rule should be
00:37:59.000 –> 00:38:01.000
if I’m engaged in something, it should deliver
00:38:01.000 –> 00:38:03.000
or or or or help me deliver my
00:38:03.000 –> 00:38:05.000
outcome and and the cliche that I use
00:38:05.000 –> 00:38:07.000
over and over again is, Brett, I am
00:38:07.000 –> 00:38:09.000
so happy when my Uber driver picks me
00:38:09.000 –> 00:38:11.000
up with a tank full of gas or
00:38:11.000 –> 00:38:12.000
enough gas to get me from a to
00:38:12.000 –> 00:38:14.000
b. But I didn’t pay him or her
00:38:14.000 –> 00:38:16.000
to stop at the gas station before they
00:38:16.000 –> 00:38:18.000
pick me up. I paid for the outcome
00:38:18.000 –> 00:38:20.000
of getting me from a to b. The
00:38:20.000 –> 00:38:21.000
more we focus on the outcomes, I think
00:38:21.000 –> 00:38:23.000
the more earnest we can be in our
00:38:23.000 –> 00:38:25.000
efforts. And,
00:38:25.000 –> 00:38:26.000
I think outcomes
00:38:28.000 –> 00:38:30.000
they they come in a way that is
00:38:30.000 –> 00:38:31.000
more superior
00:38:31.000 –> 00:38:34.000
than than just focused on the busyness. I
00:38:34.000 –> 00:38:35.000
I think that is a that’s a curse
00:38:35.000 –> 00:38:36.000
inside of an organization.
00:38:37.000 –> 00:38:38.000
Trying to stay busy.
00:38:39.000 –> 00:38:41.000
Let’s keep them rocking the last three.
00:38:41.000 –> 00:38:43.000
Here we go. My favorite of all too.
00:38:43.000 –> 00:38:46.000
Number eight is we challenge each other.
00:38:48.000 –> 00:38:49.000
Most organizations,
00:38:50.000 –> 00:38:50.000
challenges
00:38:51.000 –> 00:38:51.000
come
00:38:52.000 –> 00:38:52.000
from here for those listening at home. That
00:38:52.000 –> 00:38:52.000
is the boss
00:38:56.000 –> 00:38:56.000
to the team.
00:38:57.000 –> 00:38:58.000
Occasionally,
00:38:58.000 –> 00:39:00.000
we we encourage challenges,
00:39:01.000 –> 00:39:03.000
within the team, you know, peer to peer,
00:39:03.000 –> 00:39:03.000
occasionally.
00:39:04.000 –> 00:39:06.000
But rarely is the challenge. Are we adamant
00:39:06.000 –> 00:39:09.000
about the challenge? Challenges must also come from
00:39:09.000 –> 00:39:11.000
the team to the leader. Other words, the
00:39:11.000 –> 00:39:14.000
challenges must come from every direction because the
00:39:14.000 –> 00:39:16.000
result of progress, everything
00:39:16.000 –> 00:39:19.000
or anything worth having in this life
00:39:19.000 –> 00:39:22.000
is almost always the result of overcoming one
00:39:22.000 –> 00:39:24.000
or more challenges. Do you wanna lose weight?
00:39:24.000 –> 00:39:26.000
Gotta burn calories. You gotta change diet. Gotta
00:39:26.000 –> 00:39:28.000
workout. Whatever. You wanna learn how to play
00:39:28.000 –> 00:39:29.000
the guitar,
00:39:29.000 –> 00:39:31.000
get lessons, get on YouTube, whatever the scenario
00:39:31.000 –> 00:39:33.000
is for you, you must challenge yourself to
00:39:33.000 –> 00:39:35.000
deliver if I have a solution or a
00:39:35.000 –> 00:39:37.000
position on a topic, I want every good
00:39:37.000 –> 00:39:39.000
idea on the table. I want a meritocracy
00:39:39.000 –> 00:39:41.000
of sorts where people can talk through and
00:39:41.000 –> 00:39:44.000
feel feel obligated almost to challenge one another.
00:39:44.000 –> 00:39:46.000
And when you introduce us into your to
00:39:46.000 –> 00:39:48.000
your to your world,
00:39:49.000 –> 00:39:50.000
a lot of things happen, but the the
00:39:50.000 –> 00:39:52.000
beauty of what I’ve seen firsthand is,
00:39:53.000 –> 00:39:54.000
I’ll go back to
00:39:55.000 –> 00:39:55.000
staff meetings.
00:39:57.000 –> 00:39:59.000
You may relate to this where A staff
00:39:59.000 –> 00:40:01.000
meeting in most environments is the bosses at
00:40:01.000 –> 00:40:03.000
the end of the table, the team around
00:40:03.000 –> 00:40:04.000
the table, and they each go through their
00:40:04.000 –> 00:40:06.000
updates. And everyone on the team is just
00:40:06.000 –> 00:40:08.000
kinda heads down in their phone or on
00:40:08.000 –> 00:40:10.000
their lap top while each other is going
00:40:10.000 –> 00:40:13.000
through their updates. The only person theoretically paying
00:40:13.000 –> 00:40:14.000
attention is the boss and it’s one to
00:40:14.000 –> 00:40:16.000
one, which is a waste of everyone’s time,
00:40:16.000 –> 00:40:18.000
by the way. But when we have an
00:40:18.000 –> 00:40:21.000
environment that is rich and challenged and they’re
00:40:21.000 –> 00:40:23.000
you’re not just allowed to. You’re empowered and
00:40:23.000 –> 00:40:26.000
obligated to issue challenges. You have team members
00:40:26.000 –> 00:40:28.000
start to question
00:40:28.000 –> 00:40:31.000
updates in a healthy and productive way.
00:40:31.000 –> 00:40:32.000
And
00:40:32.000 –> 00:40:34.000
the result of that interaction becomes
00:40:35.000 –> 00:40:37.000
a knowledge share that enables other members on
00:40:38.000 –> 00:40:40.000
of the team to allow to to insert
00:40:40.000 –> 00:40:42.000
their own opinions or experience
00:40:42.000 –> 00:40:44.000
on the topic at hand. Now there is
00:40:44.000 –> 00:40:47.000
one very clear line and rule for we
00:40:47.000 –> 00:40:49.000
number eight, and that is all challenges
00:40:49.000 –> 00:40:51.000
First, they must be done diplomatically,
00:40:51.000 –> 00:40:53.000
but they must be grounded in either data
00:40:53.000 –> 00:40:54.000
and or experience.
00:40:55.000 –> 00:40:56.000
So in other words, I can’t come to
00:40:56.000 –> 00:40:58.000
the staff meeting. Brad, you you start opining
00:40:58.000 –> 00:41:00.000
on something, and I don’t like it just
00:41:00.000 –> 00:41:02.000
simply because it’s my opinion.
00:41:02.000 –> 00:41:04.000
I that’s not a challenge. That’s a complaint.
00:41:05.000 –> 00:41:06.000
But if I say
00:41:06.000 –> 00:41:08.000
Hey. Hey. Hey, Brett. You’re walking us down
00:41:08.000 –> 00:41:10.000
a path somewhere that I’ve actually I’ve been
00:41:10.000 –> 00:41:13.000
here before. In my last role, we, you
00:41:13.000 –> 00:41:14.000
know, we had a product launch similar to
00:41:14.000 –> 00:41:16.000
this, and we stumbled because of x, y,
00:41:16.000 –> 00:41:17.000
and z. You know, as a leader, you
00:41:17.000 –> 00:41:19.000
wanna hear that. You want to, you want
00:41:19.000 –> 00:41:21.000
that information, you want that challenge, you wanna
00:41:21.000 –> 00:41:22.000
be smarter for that interaction.
00:41:22.000 –> 00:41:23.000
So
00:41:23.000 –> 00:41:27.000
challenges have to come via data and or
00:41:27.000 –> 00:41:27.000
experience.
00:41:28.000 –> 00:41:29.000
But we number eight,
00:41:30.000 –> 00:41:31.000
without we numb
00:41:32.000 –> 00:41:35.000
And we number nine is we embrace challenge.
00:41:36.000 –> 00:41:37.000
So in our organization,
00:41:38.000 –> 00:41:40.000
when we establish the environment that is rich
00:41:40.000 –> 00:41:43.000
and challenged, it must be rich in embracing
00:41:43.000 –> 00:41:45.000
those challenges, whether it be from a peer,
00:41:45.000 –> 00:41:47.000
whether it be from the leader, whether it
00:41:47.000 –> 00:41:50.000
be an external force, ever the scenario is,
00:41:50.000 –> 00:41:52.000
we’ve gotta embrace those challenges because if we
00:41:52.000 –> 00:41:54.000
deny them, we’re gonna get lapped,
00:41:55.000 –> 00:41:56.000
because challenges just go away if you look
00:41:56.000 –> 00:41:57.000
the other way.
00:41:58.000 –> 00:42:01.000
And we’ve gotta create this this this kind
00:42:01.000 –> 00:42:01.000
of ethos where
00:42:02.000 –> 00:42:05.000
yep. I’m aware. That sucks. Let’s move on.
00:42:05.000 –> 00:42:07.000
We gotta embrace the challenge and keep trucking.
00:42:09.000 –> 00:42:11.000
Because what happens when we embrace those challenges,
00:42:11.000 –> 00:42:13.000
now we are focused on something other than
00:42:13.000 –> 00:42:15.000
ourselves. We’re focusing on the outcomes. We’re focusing
00:42:15.000 –> 00:42:18.000
on us being better. And not denying the
00:42:18.000 –> 00:42:18.000
challenge.
00:42:19.000 –> 00:42:21.000
So so embracing it at we number nine
00:42:21.000 –> 00:42:22.000
is incredibly important.
00:42:24.000 –> 00:42:26.000
Which takes us to the last week. You’ve
00:42:26.000 –> 00:42:27.000
held on through all ten.
00:42:28.000 –> 00:42:30.000
And I think the ten is the icing
00:42:30.000 –> 00:42:32.000
on the cake that is on because if
00:42:32.000 –> 00:42:34.000
we lead with ten,
00:42:34.000 –> 00:42:36.000
we’re setting ourselves up for failure, and that
00:42:36.000 –> 00:42:39.000
is we obsess over details. It’s the icing
00:42:39.000 –> 00:42:40.000
on the cake, the the bow on the
00:42:40.000 –> 00:42:42.000
present, whatever cliche you wanna use.
00:42:43.000 –> 00:42:45.000
Because I happen to believe in every team
00:42:45.000 –> 00:42:48.000
environment, the level of obsession over the details
00:42:48.000 –> 00:42:52.000
is is akin or synonymous to our obsession
00:42:52.000 –> 00:42:53.000
for satisfying
00:42:53.000 –> 00:42:55.000
our clients, those that we serve.
00:42:56.000 –> 00:42:58.000
You know, things like, consistent use of fonts
00:42:58.000 –> 00:42:58.000
and and spelling and
00:43:01.000 –> 00:43:02.000
presentations
00:43:02.000 –> 00:43:05.000
Like, the, you know, here’s an example I
00:43:05.000 –> 00:43:06.000
love, actually. When’s the last time you opened
00:43:06.000 –> 00:43:07.000
a product from Apple?
00:43:08.000 –> 00:43:10.000
Right? It’s just a sec the tape with
00:43:10.000 –> 00:43:13.000
the arrow on it telling. Right? They put
00:43:13.000 –> 00:43:15.000
engineers in rooms for months on end every
00:43:15.000 –> 00:43:17.000
time there’s a new product launch because they
00:43:17.000 –> 00:43:20.000
want that experience for the customer, the consumer,
00:43:20.000 –> 00:43:23.000
to be wow. Right? So obsessing over those
00:43:23.000 –> 00:43:26.000
details sends the message to our clients. We
00:43:26.000 –> 00:43:28.000
care about you. We care about your experience.
00:43:28.000 –> 00:43:30.000
We care about your impression of our product.
00:43:30.000 –> 00:43:33.000
But, again, all of these principles start from
00:43:33.000 –> 00:43:34.000
behind the
00:43:34.000 –> 00:43:35.000
if we’re
00:43:35.000 –> 00:43:39.000
detail oriented in just on the details behind
00:43:39.000 –> 00:43:41.000
the curtain, we’re just much better positioned to
00:43:41.000 –> 00:43:42.000
have that same paradigm externally.
00:43:43.000 –> 00:43:46.000
So we’ve gotta over details. I developed a
00:43:46.000 –> 00:43:48.000
reputation and even a nickname of the Shredder,
00:43:50.000 –> 00:43:51.000
when I was still in corporate,
00:43:51.000 –> 00:43:53.000
and that would that was because my team
00:43:53.000 –> 00:43:55.000
would you know, give a PowerPoint or their
00:43:55.000 –> 00:43:55.000
presentation,
00:43:57.000 –> 00:44:00.000
whatever the the marketing’s, whatever it was. And,
00:44:01.000 –> 00:44:03.000
I was just the shredder. I would notice
00:44:03.000 –> 00:44:05.000
font size fourteen on page three, but sixteen
00:44:05.000 –> 00:44:07.000
on four. You know, the indentation
00:44:08.000 –> 00:44:09.000
on page seven was different than on than
00:44:09.000 –> 00:44:11.000
on two. And I just think that sends
00:44:11.000 –> 00:44:12.000
a message to the consumer
00:44:13.000 –> 00:44:15.000
that we just threw this shit together. We
00:44:15.000 –> 00:44:17.000
didn’t take a lot of care and put
00:44:17.000 –> 00:44:18.000
this together. So
00:44:18.000 –> 00:44:20.000
So that’s the ten wheeze, and and and
00:44:20.000 –> 00:44:22.000
it just occurred to me. I left out
00:44:22.000 –> 00:44:25.000
a very important intro to this for for
00:44:25.000 –> 00:44:28.000
everyone listening a principle by definitions isn’t my
00:44:28.000 –> 00:44:31.000
term. By definition, a principle is a fundamental
00:44:31.000 –> 00:44:31.000
truth.
00:44:32.000 –> 00:44:34.000
It is our system of beliefs.
00:44:35.000 –> 00:44:37.000
So when a team or group of people
00:44:37.000 –> 00:44:40.000
are aligned, a system of beliefs, we’re all
00:44:40.000 –> 00:44:42.000
on the same page in how
00:44:42.000 –> 00:44:44.000
how we view things are fundamental truths.
00:44:44.000 –> 00:44:47.000
We are just much better and,
00:44:47.000 –> 00:44:47.000
positioned
00:44:48.000 –> 00:44:51.000
in in in the likelihood of success and
00:44:51.000 –> 00:44:51.000
excellence.
00:44:52.000 –> 00:44:54.000
Is dramatically increased because why?
00:44:55.000 –> 00:44:57.000
We have the same fundamental beliefs on who
00:44:57.000 –> 00:44:59.000
we are, how we behave, and what we
00:44:59.000 –> 00:44:59.000
do.
00:45:00.000 –> 00:45:03.000
Strong message, my man. Very strong message. So
00:45:03.000 –> 00:45:05.000
let’s last couple of questions here. What what
00:45:05.000 –> 00:45:07.000
are some habits? If I follow you around
00:45:08.000 –> 00:45:09.000
every day. What are the things I’m gonna
00:45:09.000 –> 00:45:11.000
see the no mis items that Kyle McDowell
00:45:11.000 –> 00:45:13.000
are doing day in and day out?
00:45:14.000 –> 00:45:15.000
Love that question.
00:45:17.000 –> 00:45:18.000
You know,
00:45:18.000 –> 00:45:21.000
I would say regardless of with whom I’m
00:45:21.000 –> 00:45:21.000
interacting,
00:45:23.000 –> 00:45:26.000
the most junior, newest person to the c
00:45:26.000 –> 00:45:26.000
level,
00:45:27.000 –> 00:45:28.000
executive in their office,
00:45:29.000 –> 00:45:30.000
my level of authenticity,
00:45:32.000 –> 00:45:34.000
and my commitment glimpse never waivers.
00:45:35.000 –> 00:45:37.000
Now the way I interact with those different
00:45:37.000 –> 00:45:38.000
audiences,
00:45:38.000 –> 00:45:40.000
it could be different. And you would you
00:45:40.000 –> 00:45:42.000
would see that because I believe relatability
00:45:42.000 –> 00:45:44.000
is a key component. I I I always
00:45:44.000 –> 00:45:45.000
say relatability,
00:45:46.000 –> 00:45:47.000
plus authenticity
00:45:47.000 –> 00:45:48.000
equals trust.
00:45:49.000 –> 00:45:51.000
Yeah. So if I’m relatable to those with
00:45:51.000 –> 00:45:52.000
whom I interact,
00:45:53.000 –> 00:45:55.000
And they see that I’m really being true
00:45:55.000 –> 00:45:57.000
to who I am, every interaction regardless of
00:45:57.000 –> 00:45:58.000
the topic,
00:45:59.000 –> 00:46:01.000
trust is gained. At least it’s easier to
00:46:01.000 –> 00:46:03.000
gain. So you’ll see a guy that is,
00:46:04.000 –> 00:46:07.000
really focused on improving the employee experience focused
00:46:07.000 –> 00:46:08.000
on improving
00:46:08.000 –> 00:46:09.000
the work life,
00:46:10.000 –> 00:46:12.000
for for as many people who will hear
00:46:12.000 –> 00:46:13.000
me out,
00:46:13.000 –> 00:46:16.000
because you probably know this, man. We spend
00:46:16.000 –> 00:46:19.000
ninety thousand hours on average in a lifetime
00:46:19.000 –> 00:46:20.000
working.
00:46:20.000 –> 00:46:22.000
The only thing we do more is sleep.
00:46:22.000 –> 00:46:23.000
That’s it.
00:46:23.000 –> 00:46:25.000
So if we’re gonna spend so much time,
00:46:25.000 –> 00:46:28.000
you know, essentially the the number one thing,
00:46:28.000 –> 00:46:30.000
of our waking hours doing this thing called
00:46:30.000 –> 00:46:32.000
work, shouldn’t it be rewarding?
00:46:33.000 –> 00:46:35.000
Shouldn’t it be the best experience? It can
00:46:35.000 –> 00:46:37.000
be the most impactful, the most fulfilling. Now
00:46:37.000 –> 00:46:40.000
please don’t mishear me. I’m not naive. There’s
00:46:40.000 –> 00:46:42.000
a difference between a job and a career.
00:46:42.000 –> 00:46:44.000
We’ve all had jobs that enabled us to
00:46:44.000 –> 00:46:46.000
launch our career. They were stepping stone to
00:46:46.000 –> 00:46:47.000
something bigger.
00:46:48.000 –> 00:46:49.000
But I think even
00:46:49.000 –> 00:46:52.000
you know, with all respect to to anyone
00:46:52.000 –> 00:46:54.000
flipping a burger, but even someone that flips
00:46:54.000 –> 00:46:55.000
a burger and slides it across the counter
00:46:55.000 –> 00:46:56.000
to somebody,
00:46:57.000 –> 00:47:00.000
They deserve fulfillment. They deserve to see the
00:47:00.000 –> 00:47:01.000
smile on the face of the person on
00:47:01.000 –> 00:47:03.000
the other end of that transaction. And the,
00:47:03.000 –> 00:47:05.000
I think, the, the, the best way to
00:47:05.000 –> 00:47:07.000
secure that type of fulfillment
00:47:07.000 –> 00:47:09.000
is to go at it as a team,
00:47:09.000 –> 00:47:12.000
not just me collecting my paycheck. And I
00:47:12.000 –> 00:47:14.000
think as we as we matriculate through our
00:47:14.000 –> 00:47:16.000
careers, and that that that journey, whether I’m
00:47:16.000 –> 00:47:18.000
a leader of fifteen thousand people or not
00:47:18.000 –> 00:47:19.000
a leader of anybody at all. I’m just
00:47:19.000 –> 00:47:20.000
leading myself.
00:47:21.000 –> 00:47:23.000
The value that comes with this paradigm is
00:47:24.000 –> 00:47:24.000
is profound.
00:47:25.000 –> 00:47:27.000
It’s awesome. And I love your passion, Kyle.
00:47:27.000 –> 00:47:29.000
I love it, brother. Working our listeners find
00:47:29.000 –> 00:47:30.000
more of you.
00:47:33.000 –> 00:47:36.000
So I’m on, essentially, every, social form of
00:47:36.000 –> 00:47:39.000
the same handle of at Kyle McDowell Inc.
00:47:39.000 –> 00:47:42.000
My website is kyle mcdowell inc dot com.
00:47:42.000 –> 00:47:43.000
And I think you mentioned it at the
00:47:43.000 –> 00:47:45.000
top, but, shameless plug.
00:47:46.000 –> 00:47:48.000
The book is Begin with We, and it’s
00:47:48.000 –> 00:47:50.000
available worldwide bookstores everywhere.
00:47:51.000 –> 00:47:53.000
I’m actually kind of partial to the audio
00:47:53.000 –> 00:47:53.000
version.
00:47:54.000 –> 00:47:55.000
I think it’s got a little more energy
00:47:55.000 –> 00:47:57.000
than just the the page turning, but that’s
00:47:57.000 –> 00:47:59.000
that’s that’s that’s me. And, man, I say
00:47:59.000 –> 00:48:01.000
this on every podcast,
00:48:01.000 –> 00:48:03.000
every regardless of the of the venue or
00:48:03.000 –> 00:48:05.000
format, I would love to hear from your
00:48:05.000 –> 00:48:07.000
listeners. And I mean that whether it be
00:48:07.000 –> 00:48:09.000
a problem they’re facing inside the workplace or
00:48:09.000 –> 00:48:11.000
they’re trying to level up their leadership or
00:48:11.000 –> 00:48:13.000
they just wanna have more impact and find
00:48:13.000 –> 00:48:16.000
greater fulfillment, and anything that they do hit
00:48:16.000 –> 00:48:19.000
me. I’m here. I I I respond to
00:48:19.000 –> 00:48:20.000
nearly every single
00:48:20.000 –> 00:48:22.000
inquiry that I get because it just matters
00:48:22.000 –> 00:48:24.000
to me that much. And again, I’d be
00:48:24.000 –> 00:48:25.000
a hypocrite something less than authentic if I
00:48:25.000 –> 00:48:27.000
didn’t do that. Love it, man. Well, thanks
00:48:27.000 –> 00:48:29.000
so much, Kyle, for your time. It’s been
00:48:29.000 –> 00:48:31.000
awesome having you at the ten wies or,
00:48:31.000 –> 00:48:31.000
I mean,
00:48:32.000 –> 00:48:33.000
if people don’t take notes on that stuff
00:48:33.000 –> 00:48:35.000
and then implement it, you know. I got
00:48:35.000 –> 00:48:36.000
a buddy that listens as a high school
00:48:36.000 –> 00:48:38.000
basketball coach
00:48:38.000 –> 00:48:40.000
crushing it there. I mean, why why would
00:48:40.000 –> 00:48:41.000
we not have our ten wies? Right? Whether
00:48:41.000 –> 00:48:43.000
your culture’s in a locker room or your
00:48:43.000 –> 00:48:45.000
board room or the the athletic field or
00:48:45.000 –> 00:48:47.000
at home, man, we gotta have our ten
00:48:47.000 –> 00:48:48.000
wheeze.
00:48:51.000 –> 00:48:53.000
Bingo. Bingo, Brett. And that’s been the unintended
00:48:54.000 –> 00:48:55.000
by product that I’m
00:48:55.000 –> 00:48:58.000
really proud of is how the ten Wes
00:48:58.000 –> 00:48:58.000
have
00:48:59.000 –> 00:49:01.000
manifested and kind of transitioned beyond just the
00:49:01.000 –> 00:49:03.000
corporate world and business
00:49:03.000 –> 00:49:05.000
I’m I’m working with two different school districts
00:49:06.000 –> 00:49:06.000
right now.
00:49:09.000 –> 00:49:10.000
The team that
00:49:10.000 –> 00:49:13.000
chess team, bowling team. We’re it doesn’t matter.
00:49:13.000 –> 00:49:14.000
A team is a team. And if we
00:49:14.000 –> 00:49:17.000
subscribe to a series of beliefs, we are
00:49:17.000 –> 00:49:17.000
just
00:49:18.000 –> 00:49:19.000
there’s not a lot we can’t do together.
00:49:19.000 –> 00:49:21.000
So I I love the connection you just
00:49:21.000 –> 00:49:22.000
made,
00:49:22.000 –> 00:49:24.000
in the sports world. I love it. Well,
00:49:24.000 –> 00:49:25.000
hey, I may I may holler at you,
00:49:25.000 –> 00:49:27.000
man. Have you come virtually
00:49:27.000 –> 00:49:29.000
speak to our soccer team. We got one
00:49:29.000 –> 00:49:31.000
more big game on Friday, and then we’re
00:49:31.000 –> 00:49:32.000
gonna, you know, keep this train going trying
00:49:32.000 –> 00:49:34.000
to get to state again. We’ll holler at
00:49:34.000 –> 00:49:37.000
you. Let’s go. Alright, Kyle. It’s been awesome
00:49:37.000 –> 00:49:39.000
having you, man. And, thanks so much for
00:49:39.000 –> 00:49:41.000
being on the circle of success.
50 min
November 06, 2023 How to Read 100 Books with Nick Hutchison
On this episode of Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews Nick Hutchison about his approach to reading, goal planning, and daily routines. Nick explains his SMART goal framework and how he quantifies his goals in an activity tracker. He also emphasizes the importance of failure and iteration in achieving success and recommends three books that have had a major impact on his life. Join Nick’s active community on Instagram, Book Thinkers, and learn how to choose, take notes, retain, and implement the knowledge from books.
https://youtu.be/5OG1lzj4-GA
Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I am your host, Brett Gilliland. I’ve got Nick Hutchison with me, Nick. What’s going on? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Brett, I’m excited for the conversation. Can I ask you question number one? Speaker Brett Gilliland: You may. Speaker Nick Hutchison: What is your favorite book of all time? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, what is my favorite book of all time? I always tell people the rhythm of life by Matthew Kelly. That is my favorite book and, it was book I got recommended gash probably twelve years ago, maybe. And, it was a game changer for me. So that would be it. The rhythm of life of Matthew Kelly. What do you think? Speaker Nick Hutchison: I love it. Here we just. We just Oh, I haven’t I haven’t read that book yet. I do own a Matthew Kelly book. It’s not that one. And it was a book that I had read a number of years ago, but, I love to hear it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Yeah. It’s a great book, man. So check it out. So you are, the force behind book thinkers people that listen to podcasts, they hear me talk about, you know, every day reading ten pages minimally. That’ll get me around twenty four to twenty five books a year. Which I know I just interviewed somebody yesterday and he had read eighty five books. I’m like, okay, I feel like a total schmuck now. But anyway, twenty four to twenty five books a year is pretty good for me, but Anyway, that’s what I like to do. Our people connected with your people, and, now here we are. So if we can, but we dive into all this great stuff, Nick, I always ask the question is, what has made you the man you are today? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Well, I was not much of a reader growing up with would super they can see the background. So I’ve got, like, a thousand books behind me, and I read about a hundred books a year. Wow. When I was going into my senior year of college, I took an internship at a local software company, and My boss at the time, he recognized that I had about a one hour commute each way. And he said to me something like, Nick, listening to the same playlist the same music for the one thousandth time. Like, it’s not gonna get you closer to where you wanna be in life. But the right, personal development podcast might And so that’s how I started. I started by listening to podcasts. And what I noticed was that so many of the successful people being interviewed, they gave at least some credit for their success to the books that they were reading. And so that’s what made me the man I am today. I started consuming personal development books. I started reading about every problem I had, every skill I wanted to develop, I started reading about the world’s best at everything, health, wealth, in Gilliland I started to input something from Ren. Here I am about ten years later, five hundred books in and You can’t stop me now. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome, man. It’s true. I I call it windshield university. It’s, you know, we have so much time in our cars whether you’re commuting or driving you know, whatever you’re doing. You know, let’s let’s get another university. Let’s get another degree. Right? And so I think it’s it’s huge. So here’s my question for you on the, you know, read a hundred books already this year, I think you said, is how, like, how are you doing that number one and how are you committing the time to it with a, you know, with a busy schedule? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Well, I like to start by asking people this. So sometimes people will tell me, like, hey, I can’t read. And I love to say, If I paid you ten thousand dollars to read a book by the end of the month, do you think you could do it? And they’re like, Yes. Well, I could read five in that case. And so it’s not a question of whether or not we can read. It’s a question of whether or not we value it enough to prioritize it in our calendar. So for me, not only is it my full time job now, which helps me to promote books for authors. But I value it. I value it more than Netflix, more than social media. I value it more than a lot of things that other people spend their time doing. I’m always looking to serve my future self. I’m always looking to remove pain and solve problems. I’m looking to develop skills and get closer to my potential. So that’s how I’m able to prioritize it and find so much time. And just like you talked about, ten to twenty pages a day, that’s twenty five books a year, even for beginner. So, yeah, it’s it’s a great way to make it happen. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Because I, you know, I hear people all the time when I talk about my ten pages thing. Like, oh, I don’t have time, and and but I think you’re right. It’s a priority. You know, so I I have it whether it’s in the middle of the day I gotta get it in. It’s usually it’s first thing in the morning. It’s about one of the first things I do. And so I’ve just made it a habit. I think that we’ve got to. And the things that I’ve learned and even the thoughts that come into my mind about something, whatever’s going on in my life in that situation, this thing I’m reading over here will help fertilize that. Right? And you just add some water to it and then that thing starts to grow. And for me, it’s thinking it’s journaling and spending time on it. So I’m curious because one of your passions and one of the things I wrote down in here is your new book rise of the reader, which comes out November first. Plug intended. We’ll talk about that later, but you you really dive in the strategies for mastering your reading habits. But then also applying what you learn. So I’m curious on how we do that. How do we apply what we’ve learned when we read every day? Speaker Nick Hutchison: There are so many different strategies for application that we can talk about, but I think it all starts in the in the early stages of your reading process. So for me, one of the things that I found myself doing that most other people don’t do is I set an intention for each book that I read. And my intention follows the smart goal framework. So it’s specific. It’s measurable. It’s attainable. It’s irrelevant to my life. To my lips, I’m emotionally connected, and it’s time bound. So one of the books that A lot of people are reading right now in the world of business is titled hundred million dollar leads, by Alex or Mozy. And they’re it’s a book on lead generation and they’re just hoping that it’s going to change their life. And so instead, I say set a smart goal. Set an intention for the book, something like find and implement at least two lead generation strategies for my business by the end of October. And then review that intention each time you read a few more pages so that you can tell your brain what to filter for. Find and implement at least two lead generation strategies. Now you’ll be able to accurately identify them within the book, and the book can help you solve your problems. I think it all starts with setting an intention and have that attention based on taking action. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I love that because that’s what we do with our clients. You know, we’re in a wealth management space, and it’s it’s they’d be like us saying, hey, just come in, and we’re just gonna start saving money with no intention on where going and no goal, that would be crazy. Right? And so I’ve never really thought of it that way as to have an intention for the book. I’m a big highlighter. Right? Like, to highlight the books. I like to read the actual book, not, you know, on my iPad or something like that. And so so how do you for people that maybe don’t have that discipline built today, they’re not doing the ten pages, they’re not reading a hundred books a year. What advice would you have for them to take action and start making it part of their life. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. I would say pause for five minutes before you start the book. And at this point, you should know what the book is about and set a goal set a goal to implement at least one thing from the book. So by the time you’re finished with the book, you’ve highlighted a few potential actions that you can take with your highlighter just like you talk about. And look at those actions, write them down rewriting your favorite takeaways as a form of repetition Gilliland repetition leads to our attention. So look at these potential takeaways and say, which one of these is going to lead to most of the change that I’m looking at create. Take action on it. There’s a Napoleon Hill quote that I love. It says action is the real measure of intelligence. It’s not sitting back and debating things and having a great vocabulary. It’s the person who chooses to implement what they have learned creates a behavior change, turns it into a habit, and then wakes up as a wildly different person ten years from now. And so that’s it. Just one thing from every single book that you read. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And are you writing those down? Are you are you a writer downer guy? Are you a journal guy? Like, how are you how are you doing that? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. So, typically, I will let’s say I read a book on lead generation using that example, and I’ve set an intention to find and implement at least two things. I’ll probably fifteen potentials. So at the end of the book, I go through and I reread those fifteen things that I highlight. And I will rewrite all of them into a list. And I’ll say, here are the potential actions that I can take. What twenty percent of these will create eighty percent the change that I’m looking for. The highest leveraged activities, not every activity is created equal. And then I I mean, and I detail all this in the book. It would get a little bit complicated to try to explain about. I have an activity tracker that I will plug those activities in And I’ll set a goal to implement that by the end of the week or in the next two weeks or three weeks. And so it gets rewritten into a second place But, yeah, I think that writing with the pen in your hand, it’s multi sensory. It’s visual. You can feel it happening. And again, repetition leads to retention. So you wanna rewrite it a couple of times once on paper, second time into my tracker. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. So if we’re not reading, are you would you call yourself a big goal planner? Just again, eliminate the reading side of this thing. Are you a huge, huge goal planner? Speaker Nick Hutchison: I would say, yes. I have been over the last ten years. I’m probably a little bit less today than I was. No. You know what? No. Scratch that. Yes. I am. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Let’s define that. How are you a huge gold planner? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Well, everything’s quantified in my life. And I I will say, that doesn’t sound fun, but Jocko Willink said it best. Gilliland creates freedom. Discipline equals freedom. And so by defining my goals in my activity tracker for every week, and my goals are related to everything, not just business. So goals around Gilliland the gym and fitness and diet, goals around my relationship, certain number of date nights every week, etcetera. Goals around my business and my personal finances and things like that. Everything’s quantified because without measurement, you don’t know if you’re making progress. I see you have to stand your and where you’re at. And so I set goals, incremental improvements. I set annual goals for my business and we track against them. I mean, I have all sorts of goals. So, yeah, I’m definitely a goal planner. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I love it. What what what have you learned about a disappointment slash failure slash you know, swinging and missing all that stuff from the business world. Talk you know, we talk about success all the time on the circuit of success, but let’s talk about this circuit of failure too because I know for me some of my toughest times have been my best learnings. So what what are some of those that you feel like sharing today? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Well, I’ve learned that the US public education system has it backwards because when I was younger, I was taught that failure was a bad thing. I was taught to avoid failure, avoid criticism, and I was never really coached. Right? But then I started playing sports. And in sports, when you make an error, or you have an issue, or you miss a block or whatever, your coach comes over and tells you how to handle it better next time. And I think that’s what happens in business. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Fail and you and you iterate, you make progress. And so I’ve learned that failure’s the best. Failure’s amazing. If you feel fast and you feel a hard at full speed, and you’re always changing direction and iterating. Like, that’s where the magic happens. And, you know, that’s why my business has grown so much over the last couple of years. Speaker Brett Gilliland: When you look at your growth and you look at the talking about the funnels and the leads and and all that stuff, I mean, one branding’s important. But number two, how are you getting out there and making sure people are seeing your stuff? Like, what what’s the secret sauce in there, if you will, to help people learn from you and and how you’ve grown your business. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. We do about a million organic impressions a month on Instagram right now. And it’s because we create valuable content. I think that’s the hack. I you you have to be of service and you have to provide value to your audience. I mean, on top of that, at, I’m network with a lot of names in the space. And so I sort of borrow their credibility, and I display that in front of my community, and you know, they’re re sharing content and we’re providing value to them. So that kinda helps a lot. You know, getting in front of an audience that’s already been created that sort of mirrors your audiences is a good way to make that happen too. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I saw that. You had, people on your podcast, Grant Cardone Lewis House, Alex Armozy. I mean, those are some big names. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. Absolutely. So we just try to provide value to those guys and then in return, try to get in front of their audience a little bit. As a result. And, they all have big audiences, and they spend a lot of money to build those audiences. So it’s a great way to get in front of more people. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what you asked me about my favorite book? I’ll I’ll ask you that question here in a second, but I find myself if I’m not engaged in a book, I I I committed in April two thousand sixteen to start reading cover to cover because I was the guy that had the book on the nightstand I’d read twenty, thirty pages. It’s kinda bored, and then it would stay the nightstand for a while, then it goes in the drawer, and then you never see the book again. Right? I’m like, I’m done with this. I gotta read cover to cover. So I find myself sometimes struggling with reading a full book if I’m not totally engaged with it. And I still do it, but it takes me longer than I should, and that’s probably why I don’t read more books. So what is your process like with that? If you’re forty pages in and the book sucks in your opinion, what are you doing with it? Speaker Nick Hutchison: There’s a a great rule called the rule of one hundred. So it says, take the number one hundred, subtract your age, And that’s how many pages you have to read before you can put down a book. So for me, I’m twenty nine. I have to read at least seventy one pages before I can put down a bad book. It’s just a rule of framework to make sure that you kinda stay consistent. The older you get, the less you have to read because the wiser you have become. So I think about it like that. I think life is too short to read a bad book and to force yourself all the way through it. I used to read cover to cover every single word, realize, like, I’m not optimizing for finishing a book. That’s not the goal. The goal is to implement something. And if this book isn’t gonna be it for me, like, I thought it was gonna solve a problem, and it’s clearly not going to. Like, I’ve given my my self the space to move on these days. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. I like that. So I gotta read fifty five pages in a book basically before I give up on it. Yep. Speaker Nick Hutchison: There you go. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s about where I’m at anyway. I’m forty five. So fifty five. We’re good to go. Yeah, but it’s in this, like, man, it sucks. I want that book. I, you know, I put them all in my bookshelf I’ve got them labeled to the year they are, and, you know, I wanna read it cover to cover, and now I gotta do I just wasted my time. You know, it’s I’m competitive, and I like to check the box that I’ve read that book. Any good apps, any good apps Speaker Nick Hutchison: that you recommend people use to help with reading or like meeting Speaker Brett Gilliland: tracking it and and keeping score? Speaker Nick Hutchison: You know, I’ve actually tried to build some, in the past because I don’t love any of the ones that are currently out there. Better. I’m not a fan of good reads, not a fan of, any of the book summary applications. But I for note taking, I do use Evernote. So I think Evernote’s a great platform for categorizing my favorite takeaways from some of the books that I’ve read. My use of the platform has gone up and down over time, but, yeah, that’s that’s a great app. And then, you know, for for, in general, for making sure that you read, just set a daily reminder. Like, if you’re waking up at seven and you wanna get your ten pages done in the morning, just Hey, Siri. Set a goal for reading ten pages every morning and remind me at 7AM or whatever. And, like, those little nudges will help you will help you be consistent. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. I use the app Basmo. Have you heard of that one? No. Yeah. So I think it’s let me confirm that. That’s what it is in my phone here. So it is called, yeah, Basmo, b a s m o. It’s like a yearly fee, but you put all your books in that you’re reading, and it’ll tell you what percentage you’re at, having it done, it’ll you you basically set your timer when you start, when you finish, you just talk about what page you’re on, and it will tell you, you know, how many words per minute you’re reading, how many pages per minute you’re reading, tell me, Hey, based on this speed of reading, you’ll finish this book in, whatever, two hours and seventeen minutes, and then it’s just got a library all the books I’ve read this year, which has been kinda cool as you can look back on it, and you can take pictures, you can write notes. So I found that to be pretty helpful. I like that. So maybe could just take that idea and then, build your own, and then we’ll, we’ll sell it on here. Everybody, everybody will use it. Sound good? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. That sounds good. I’m I’ll look that up Basmo. I’m surprised that I’ve heard of it before. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I don’t even know where I heard about it, but, I I’ve been using it for probably six months, and I really like it. What what are the habits? If I would follow you besides again reading, if I follow you around with the camera every day, what am I gonna see the no miss a successful business owner impacting a lot of people. What are you doing day in and day out? First thing I do when I wake up is Speaker Nick Hutchison: outside, and I get some sight. And that’s with my dog. So we go on a walk. Most mornings, it’s forty five minute walk. There’s a trail near my house, and we get some fresh air. We get the blood moving. We drink water, and we get sunlight before caffeine. Then we go home, he gets fed and we go to the gym. So my wife is with me too. We go to the gym. We exercise And, I think it’s important to get those exercise endorphins flowing before your day gets kicked off. So I focus a lot on strength and mobility right now. Flexibility has been important for me. And then I come home, do a twenty minute transcendental meditation, front of my red light. Like, it all sounds kind of funny, but I’m one of those guys that’s really into biohacking and routines and everything like that. Shower, caffeine, reading, and then my day starts around 10AM, with a with a hold that I have with my team every days. So the things that I don’t miss every single day of the week, and they’re all the they’re all the the kind of like foundation things for my energy. I also don’t eat until 12:00. So I practice intermittent fasting normally once a week or couple times a month, I’ll do a longer fast as well. So I’m into all of that stuff. I think energy preservation, energy optimization, those are some of the things that I focus on with my routines. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what are you what are you learning about the red light? I’ve been debating on one of those. I I’ve got a sauna at home and I was thinking about putting one of those in my sauna. I’ve got the lights and all that stuff, but it’s not the true red light therapy. So, Speaker Nick Hutchison: What are what Speaker Brett Gilliland: are you liking about that? And do you actually feel any different? Are you seeing anything different with that? Speaker Nick Hutchison: I’ve been using it daily for about six Hutchison. And I can’t I I will say that I’ve you know, I’m in the gym every day. Sometimes they’ll tweak something or a muscle. Is slightly fast. Some benefits as far as skin and stuff like that. Like, it’ll it’ll stimulate collagen production. I haven’t noticed anything with my skin, but that’s supposed to be a long term benefit. And, yeah, I have a sauna in my house too. We’re not as good at getting the sauna session in every day as we could be. We normally sauna on the weekends, but you know, I and then during certain seasons, more winter than anything, we’re cold plunging. So, yeah, I do all that kind of stuff. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. Cold punching never gets easy, man. It’s freaking terrible, wouldn’t it? Speaker Nick Hutchison: It is. Yeah. And I’ll tell you what, though. Like, I I enjoy cold punching. So I just have a tub outside, and I fill it with ebbs, some salt water, and and we clean the water every so often. And in Boston, it gets really cold. So there’s a great period of time for, like, three months where the water sits at thirty three degrees. There’s a layer of ice on top and you gotta get in for a few minutes and, like, I I love it. I I really do love it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love that you love it because it’s like, I I love it too. Like once I get out and once the initial shock, and I don’t know if you I’m sure you’ve done this, but I actually videotate myself getting in at one time and just I’ve never I never thought I could make facial expressions like debt my life. I’m like, this is hell. This is exactly what hell has to be like other than it’s hot, not cold, but it’s just brutal. But but again, it is the one thing I was just having this conversation with somebody there today. It is the one thing where I feel drastically different when I’m done. Would you agree with that? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Oh, yeah. Your endorphins are through the roof, and you’re just your dopamine spikes and it lasts for a while. Like, feel like a million bucks. I agree. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. It’s amazing. What what is the thing if I if I were to steal your cell phone from you? Is there anything in there that, you know, besides the normal music, email, stuff like that calendar, Is there anything app or any kind of hack thing that you use to be productive and live your best life on your phone that you wouldn’t want me to delete? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yes. I have an app called Onesec. Have you heard of this? Speaker Brett Gilliland: I have not. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Okay. So I’ll I’ll demonstrate it live for you. So it it basically stops any impulse use of social media. So when I click Instagram, up on the screen here. Watch what happens. It says, oh, it’s time to take a deep breath. It makes me breathe in. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And it Speaker Nick Hutchison: makes me breathe out. And it says, Hey, you’ve tried to access Instagram nineteen times in the last twenty four hours. And then it makes you press the button. Do you actually wanna use Instagram or do you not need it right now? And so it stops the impulsivity. Like, oftentimes, I’ll click it when I’m just waiting in line for something, and then I’ll be like, you know what? No. I don’t need Instagram right now. And so that saved me a heck of a lot of time. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So on one sec, so that is, like, basically an overlay on your phone. So if it is it any app, or is it just the ones you kinda pick and choose which one to do? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. It’s any app on your phone, and there’s tons of other rules. So there’s actually an app, that comes pre installed with iPhone, but most people delete it. Let’s see. It’s called I forget where I tucked this thing. It’s Gilliland, and shortcuts. And so the app Oh, yeah. That integrates with shortcuts. And it you can you can integrate one sec with any other app. So, like, and then you can determine how long the break is, and there’s all sorts of rules. So, the one sec app has a tutorial in it about how to set it up with any app, and that’s what I do. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love that. That’s a game changer, man. I’m gonna get that. And, the Gilliland boys are gonna get a new app installed their phone. And so when they see they’ve tried to get on TikTok for the nine hundredth time in the last twenty four hours, right, that this will make them take a deep breath and and rethink if they actually wanna do that. So, that’s awesome, man. What, talk to us about the journey, the grind. I mean, what what do you love about it? What do you dislike about it? What can you share with our listeners there? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Well, I love everything about it. I really do. I mean, failure is part of the process struggle as part of the process. And when you expect it to happen, it doesn’t surprise you. So I I what do I try to optimize for? I want to enjoy the passage of time. And for me, part of that is failure, part of it is growth, part of it is It’s being uncomfortable. And so I enjoy it. Like, I expect it. And as a result, it happens. And and it doesn’t surprise I’m just out here loving my life. I’m out here, build having fun and positively impacting people, and those are the things that I’m optimizing for. So, you know, I use these books like a cheat code, like a shortcut. I mean, they condensed decades of somebody else’s lived experience in two days of consumption. And, you know, I joke around. I’m not twenty nine years old. I’m thousands of years old if you include all the books that I’ve read. So, yeah, that’s the magic. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So talk about this book rise of the reader, man. It’s coming out November first two thousand twenty three. Talk to our listeners about this book. It’s gonna be awesome. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. I just over the years of building my community on social media, I’ve received the same questions thousands of times. Like, how do I choose the right book? How do I take great notes? How do I retain more from the books? How do I implement more from the books? And so what I did was I documented my entire process every little detail, from how do I choose these books to how do they implement it? How do I track? That behavior. So it’s all in the book, Rise of Reader. And again, if you choose to read this, you’ll get more from the other books that you’re reading. That’s the promise. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like that. And, working our listeners find more of it. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. If you go to book thinkers, so spell just like it sounds book thinkers on Instagram, That’s for most active community. Like I said, we do about impressions a month over there, and and that’s where you can connect with a ton of cool people. And then from there, there are links in the bio to the book and to our websites and everything else. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So book thinkers, Go on there now. We’re gonna Speaker Nick Hutchison: do a little. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. We have a little fun. There we are. Alright. We’re gonna play a little game here. Pick a number between one and ten. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Seven. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Alright. Now between one and three, Speaker Nick Hutchison: two. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Alright. Since this books help you this book helps you develop and implement and it’s atomic habits by, James Clear. So talk to us about that. What made you make that post right there? Speaker Nick Hutchison: Well, I don’t manage our Instagram channel anymore, but atomic habits has has told atomic habits has sold ten million copies since it came out. Clearly, people have an issue controlling their own behavior. And so they’re looking for habit creation, how to undo bad habits, how to install good habits, And atomic habits is the best. I mean, James Clear wrote a very simple actionable book. Almost everybody that reads it finds something of value in it. And I think, like, there’s a great quote from the book that I’ve I’ve always remembered. James says something like, every action you take today is a vote for the person you’re becoming. And so if you want if you want a different to take different actions today. You have to change your votes, and that book will help you do it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That. I mean, you got a lot of people I follow on here. You got like twenty seven, mutual followers. So that’s, it’s good stuff. I like this. Talk about fears, man. How many of the, I mean, the fears you’ve put in your mind have actually blown up to the magnitude you put them in your mind to be? Speaker Nick Hutchison: None of them. I think, we spend a lot of time. Yeah. We spend a lot of time. We spend a lot of time creating fake stories and amplifying fake situations that never come to fruition, and that holds us back in a big way. So Yeah. I when I was younger, I had a lot of social anxiety. I had a lot of fear. I even had fear in sports when I was growing Gilliland none of it ever came to fruition. But, the more you grow and the more uncomfortable you are, the the less uncomfortable you become, I think. Like, through exposure, you become desensitized to things that previously created fear. So Yeah. And again, I think I just failure is part of the process. So you can’t let it surprise you. You can’t and failure is so beautiful. Like, so optimistic because it teaches you what not to do and that gets you what a little bit closer to what to do. So yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: How do you so how what do you say to that person that’s listening this right now? And they’re like, whatever, man. You’re full of, you know, whatever, Nick. It’s not beautiful. It it it sucks. You know, I don’t know if I’m gonna make, you know, I I just had this happen today, a business owner. It’s like, man, I laid in bed all night last night, you know, I’m in this spot. Know, he’s stressed. He’s thinking about some stuff financially. Gilliland, you know, so that guy probably isn’t gonna agree in that moment when you’re up all night and you’re stressed out it’s beautiful. It’s easy to say and I agree with you. So I’m not I’m not saying I don’t agree with you, but but but how? How does it become beautiful? How do you when it does suck really bad in the moment? How do you get out of it and try to spend that thinking to where it’s beautiful? I Speaker Nick Hutchison: say a couple of things. Oftentimes, we think that our pain is unique to us. But the reality is about a hundred billion people have lived before us. A hundred billion history of humanity. Millions of those people have documented their life experience in the form of a book. So they’ve condensed to decades of lived experience, everything they did to overcome their problems, and they put it all in the book right there for you. Thousands of those books are probably related to the same problems that that person is facing today, your client. Yeah. And so if you can slow things down, realize that it’s not unique to anybody goes through this. But the road map, there is a solution. Other people have found a way to solve this same problem, the financial anxiety, the scarcity mindset, whatever it is. And if you can spend twenty dollars in a few hours of your time and slow things down, you can avoid dealing with that for the rest of your life by reading and implementing the right book. Set another way, if you deal with something on a daily basis, over the next thirty years, you’ll deal with it eleven thousand times, three hundred and sixty five times thirty. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. Speaker Nick Hutchison: So spend the next hundred days figuring it out so that the next ten thousand nine hundred days, you don’t have to deal with it. I would I would say be more logical, less emotional, like, talk about these facts. Yeah, it does stink. Like, I’ve been in a lot of bad situations with business where I didn’t know if I was gonna make payroll or or whatever. Now I think when those situations pop up, I just have the experience of having gone I’m through it so many that it’s just like, this is part of the pro. Other people have it worse. Like, they say comparison is the thief of joy. I think comparison creates joy when you look at people that are in worse circumstances. So I use that tool a lot as well to kinda slow things down. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I think that’s great perspective, man, and great wisdom, actually. It it because I agree. When I started this podcast six and a half years ago, I asked that I’ve asked that question to three hundred plus people. Right? I mean, the fears you put in your mind blow up to the magnitude you put them in your mind would be. Most of them do exactly what you did. You smile, you say zero. And for me, that’s built this massive belief that the fears I’ve put in my mind over my lifetime, I can say none of them have come true. Right? And I can also say the three hundred plus people, the the hundreds of books I’ve read, you’re learning from that, man. So like the podcast you read, the people you surround yourself with, the books you read. Those Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. Absolutely. Sorry. I know our internet connection is going in just a little bit. But Yes. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It is. Sorry. I don’t know why that is. Speaker Nick Hutchison: I mean, yes. All good. Yes. Absolutely. And I read a book a number of years ago called The Top Five Regrets of The Dying by Bronnie Ware. And she was an end of life is an end of life palliative care nurse. Meaning, she would spend the last couple of weeks or maybe days with somebody before they passed away talking with them. Helping them transition. And she realized that everybody dies with a ton of regret. And the number one regret is essentially living a life based on other people’s expectations of them instead of their own, like playing smaller game, not taking risk, ending up wishing they’d and I just won’t accept that for myself. Like, I think the pain of regret hurts a lot more than the pain of fear or or being uncomfortable in the short term. Right? Like, in order to to to live my dream life, that’s just that it’s part of the process. Like, it happens. Everybody faces it. So for me, it’s I would rather avoid regret but be uncomfortable in the short term than, like, have this permanent regret of not doing more with my life. You know? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yep. But I I’ve said this for years too is regret weighs tons, Gilliland weighs ounces. You know? Exactly. It, you know, I also talk about our attitude defines where we go. Our discipline decides how fast we get there. And so the and you mentioned it earlier about discipline. Right? So, however, how much more discipline we can get. I don’t know, man, but it it’s for me, it’s put it on your calendar, schedule it, make things happen, take action, but also be clear about where you’re going. Right? Have clarity about your plans and your future. And, sometimes it’s easier to find that discipline. So, again, you asked me this question to start with, but I’ll ask you now. So what are your favorite books. Top one, two, three books you’d recommend for people. Speaker Nick Hutchison: The book that said the biggest impact on the life that I live today and the joy that I experience on a daily basis is the four hour work week by Tim Farris. That book helped me really design my lifestyle. I have a remote business. I travel internationally a lot. I’ve spent time in twenty five different countries over the last five years with my wife. Sometimes for up to a few months at a time. I have a remote business that has ten people on the team, but everybody’s in a different location, and it’s all a result of that book. Book number two, hundred million dollar offers by Alex or Mozy added an additional six figures of revenue to my small business, which is pretty significant. You mowing it. And it’s all offer creation and, sales essentially. And then the compound effect by Darren Hardy is book number three. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Small steps in the right direction over a long period of time. That’s the name of the game. So when you talk about fear, like, I there were a couple points where I wanted to maybe mention just bite size. Like, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time? No matter how many times you read ASAP’s fable, the tortoise in the air, the tortoise always like small steps. And small steps create less fear than big steps do. So I don’t have huge goals. But I have manageable steps in the right direction in front of me, and that’s where I find most success. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. You know, it’s funny you say that at twenty nine, here I am forty five. And so I was in my twenties, I was, you know, I was I had these huge big goals, and I was always chasing them, and it was funny because then I found Sometimes when I hit those goals, I’m thinking the bells and whistles and the confetti’s gonna fly down and it and it doesn’t happen. Right? And I found that I would beat myself up if I didn’t do that one thing, even though it was a massive, massive deal, and I would end up still having a great year and a great success. And and have built a good life. And so I found as I’ve aged and you’re doing it now at twenty nine. So I applaud you for that is, is taking the baby steps. You know, I’d be like, alright, I’m gonna go from zero workouts to seven workouts a week. I’m gonna do that. And then I would do like three and then I’d beat myself up over it. Right? And just constant struggle. So I applaud you on that, man. And for our listeners, I would agree. It’s it’s find that bite sized deal that you can accomplish and do and feel good about your success. Speaker Nick Hutchison: Yeah. I didn’t process matters so much more than outcome. And so I just want to enjoy the process and make sure it’s sustainable. Gilliland I know that it will compound into exactly what I’m looking for in the future anyway. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I love it. So where do our listeners find more of Nick Hutchison, man? Speaker Nick Hutchison: The best place to go is at book fingers on Instagram, which we highlighted once before. And from there, there are link and our bio. It’s everything that you’re gonna need. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. Well, we will put this in the show notes, and it’s been awesome having you on the circuit of success, my man. Stay with while I hit end here, but this thanks for joining us. Sorry about the internet connection today. I don’t know what’s going on there, but, I love the stuff. I had a page of notes here, man. I loved it.

38 min
October 30, 2023 Launch Your Business To $10M
From a single embroidery machine in the living room… to the garage… to a commercial space, Robert with the help of Danny and Tyler were able to launch this business all the way into a 40,000 square foot warehouse to continue its growth path! Robert Hamm is the Founder and CEO of HatLaunch, which is located near St. Louis in Collinsville, Illinois. He started this journey in 2017 with the idea of creating a great online source for quality custom headwear after realizing there wasn’t a great option. At the beginning of 2023, both Danny Gifford (COO) and Tyler Smith (CFO) left their corporate jobs and boarded the ship of HatLaunch | Shirtlaunch to help sustain the operations, finances, and hands-on presence required to run a fast-growing business. Danny and Tyler were high school classmates and longtime friends of Robert’s who saw his vision of growing the business and wanted to provide their knowledge and experience to assist with the growth.  HatLaunch | ShirtLaunch are experiencing the best year since inception and currently predicting annual revenue for 2023 to be north of $10MM. If you would like to place an order, check out their websites! hatlaunch.com shirtlaunch.com
Full Video
Robert Hamm: [00:00:00] Welcome to the circuit of success podcast, the circuit of success podcast with your host, Brett, Brett, Brett Gilliland, Brett Gilliland, visionary wealth advisory.
Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the circuit of success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today I’ve got Robert Hammamy. Robert, what’s up my
Robert Hamm: man? What’s up? How are you? I’m glad to be here. I’m good. This is exciting. First. Yeah. In person podcast. Is that right? I’ve done. Yeah. I like
Brett Gilliland: them a lot more. You know, you kind of feel the energy.
This is cool. Feel if somebody is actually going to continue talking. Are they not talking? You don’t know. Sometimes you don’t know what’s going on. Can you hear
Robert Hamm: me? Am I muted? Exactly. You’re on mute.
Brett Gilliland: Sometimes I get an echo. It’s just, it’s fun. These, these are a lot better. So, well, man, you are, uh, the founder of Hat Launch and, uh, and here’s what I wrote down.
I think this is pretty cool. From your, uh, One machine in your family room in 2018. Yep to a few machines in your garage. Yep to 8, 400 square feet to soon to be [00:01:00] 40, 000 plus square feet all since 2018 dude. Yeah, so on hats
Robert Hamm: been a rocket
Brett Gilliland: Well, here’s it’s funny So here’s how we met for those watching or listening is I get a call from a guy Tyler Tyler used to be an intern for me back in, gosh, mid 2000s, I think, I can’t remember the year, maybe 2012, 2010, somewhere in there probably.
He calls and says, hey, I just want to come by for some business advice. I’m like, great. Yeah, you want to give back to a guy who used to, you know, used to work with you. Next thing I know, I’m buying hats. I’m like, what in the hell just happened? And he didn’t do that. You know, it wasn’t like he came to me to start selling stuff, but he’s doing a good job.
So Tyler Smith, you did awesome. Connected us and now I’m a proud owner of hat launch and uh, yeah, man, lots of hats. We’re gonna keep getting them So anyway, i’ll be quiet And I want to turn it over to you, man, and talk about what has helped make you the man you are today. Cause you just don’t go from your garage to 40, 000 square feet
Robert Hamm: overnight.
Yeah. That’s a question. Uh, so my family, I guess I grew up in the [00:02:00] restaurant industry. So my family’s owned restaurants since I was a kid. And my mom actually. We moved to Highland, uh, so that my mom could open a restaurant with my aunt and my grandma in Highland. And like, when we’re there, the whole family worked there together.
Tyler actually worked there too. That’s where Tyler met his wife too. Uh, a lot of marriages came out of that place too, which is super interesting. Um, but I, it’s just always been hard work in the family, I think. And especially my mom and my dad are both really hard workers. My mom specifically, she works for me now.
So that’s, we can get into that part of the story too. But, uh, she is like the hardest worker you’ll ever meet in your life. Like just still is today. I think that’s where I get my hard work and work ethic and ability to just. You know, like that, that’s to do what I’ve done in the short amount of time.
It’s, it’s constant work and you have to be able to do that constant work. Otherwise it’s, it doesn’t happen. Um, so that’s just like a brief little, where I’ve, where I’ve come [00:03:00] from and kind of my foundings, you know, like seeing my family. Break their backs running restaurants for not very much, you know, like that’s a tough industry and Michael actually owns one right here.
Oh the O Town. Oh, yeah. He has that one. So Yeah, he’s got the camera I was so excited when he told me he’s doing that It’s unique. Yeah. People always talk about that. Got the
Brett Gilliland: robots. So, I mean, you were, you had a normal job, right? Yeah. What I would call a normal nine to five job. You were doing that. I think I saw a video.
You said normal nine to five, you were in debt. Seemed like you wanted more in life. Yup. And you just had to do this hat thing, man. Yeah. And so for people listening, he, he’s the, I mean, you want to be the number one, uh, custom hat
Robert Hamm: headwear maker in the world. Absolutely. Right? Right. If we’re not already. If we’re not already.
So
Brett Gilliland: think about that. The number one. Custom hat maker
Robert Hamm: in the world. Yeah, we, we want to be that. And I, the industry like apparel in general is like multi billion dollar industry. [00:04:00] It’s crazy. And hats alone. Like if you look at the big, the big names and hats right now, like they’re a hundred million dollar businesses, you know, we’re since 2018 we’ve done, I think 13 million in sales.
So like we are just like peanuts. We’re still scraping the surface when it comes to that. Um, but. Uh, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s insane what you, where we could be and what our processes and what we’re doing now is so much better than what’s out there in the competition that all it’s going to take is time and more people knowing about us to become the best and the number one in the world.
So it’s super exciting. Um, just. It takes a lot of work and time and dedication, but yeah, I started, started out as a software engineer. So I went to Rankin, uh, graduated in 2010 and got my first job actually right over there north of Grumman. It’s like the building, Oh, right there, shaped like a, a B2 bomber.
Uh, so like it was work, a contract working for the air force right there. Actually. I [00:05:00] didn’t even think about that till now. That’s pretty cool. Full circle. Bye. Bye. And, uh, yeah, it’s, so I was a software engineer for about 10 years, uh, doing many different jobs between the government contract stuff, private sector.
And before I quit my job to work for myself full time, I was at Express Scripts. So I don’t know if you know much about Express Scripts. Express Scripts is mail order pharmacy, uh, one of the biggest in the world and they have multiple locations all across the United States where they are fulfilling prescriptions for people.
Um, You might get your drugs from Express Scripts. I’m not even really know it because they’re they’re so massive So I was on the team that handled all of the basically pharmacy Automations and operations of getting that prescription From a pill to a bottle with a label on it into a box with the shipping label on it out the door using robotics and All sorts of really cool technology to make that happen.
I was there for Three years, about three years and being there, all of [00:06:00] my jobs added up, gave me exposure and experience to so many different industries and seeing how powerful technology could be when applied to industries for anything. And that place specifically just really showed me. How much money is out there, how many people are out there to sell things to, and how you can efficiently and effectively scale up an operation with, you know, utilizing labor and technology and robotics.
Right. So such a cool. Combination of things to work on and see happen and to build software and release it in that environment and watch it and improve a Process 10 20 30 percent is so cool. So that’s you see the needle move, right? Yeah, they’re not you so I’m so grateful for my experience as a software engineer and the jobs that I had because I took everything that I’ve learned from all those jobs and applied it to what we’re doing with custom hats where any other hat, you know, embroidery shop, they’re, they’re not using [00:07:00] software.
It’s like we’re more of a tech company than we are actually a hat company because the entire operation is running on custom code that I’ve written. So from when I, when I applied my
Brett Gilliland: logo, my future here in your past logo to the website.
Robert Hamm: Yup. That’s all code that I’ve written at three or four in the morning.
So that’s 2018. So yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s why we, that’s also why we’ve been able to scale how we have. Have because without those processes and the automation and the code in place to make sure everything’s happening, how it needs to like, you just can’t do it. We’d be using pen and paper and expel spreadsheets and you can’t scale with that.
It’s not scalable. And that’s not to say that things haven’t broken throughout the way. Like every single time we hit a new growth, new, new phase and growth, like doubling revenues, part of the process breaks or part of the process needs to be automated. Or anytime something breaks, I look at how can I automate it, how can I make it easier, or how can I make it so it takes someone like one click instead of like ten [00:08:00] processes to get done.
So constantly iterating and improving the processes that way has allowed it to scale and continue to scale as it has. So what was it like
Brett Gilliland: for you when you were working at these, you know, big corporations? Didn’t you on the side kind of at night go home and start doing all this stuff? And then at what point did you know?
Okay, I can leave a good government job, you know, right paycheck Retirement health insurance, you know, that took
Robert Hamm: a long time. Yeah to get the balls to do it And so even before I was doing the hat thing in 2018, like I’ve always overextended myself to get things that I want. So for me it’s cars. That’s my vice.
Like I freaking love cars. So like before I was doing any of the hat stuff, like at one point I had like three cars. I had like a BMW 135i and a Corvette Z06 and like a Jeep, like three cars on my salary. My wife was back in school with me at that time. So. I was overextended, you know, house payment, got a kid, a wife.
Uh, [00:09:00] so, you know, if I wanted the car, I either got a job that paid more or I did sidewalk. So like I would build things on the side for other companies. Like I would, there’s a couple of St. Louis places that I’d be like, Hey guys, I got some free time in the evenings. Send me some code that you need written, you know, to just so I can make some more money.
So I was always used to working more outside of my day job because it’s just, I, I always felt like I needed more. I wanted more, you know, if I want more, I need to make more to, to get what I want. And that’s the way it’s always been. Uh, but the, the whole driving force behind starting. Hat launch when I did was like my wife in 2017 actually rented me a Lamborghini to drive through the Colorado mountains.
And a Lamborghini Gallardo is the car I’ve always wanted like forever. Right. And after driving it, I was like, okay, how do I afford this? And this is like how I always do everything. I look at the price of the thing and I, I’m always on top of my finances, like not in a good way. [00:10:00] Like I know how much I have to spend, spend down to the very cent and I spend it right.
I’m not investing. I’m not saving money, but I’m at least smart in the sense that I’m not spending more than I’m making. So I’m like, okay, this car, you know, I can get a used one for a hundred grand. How much, how much does a hundred grand cost on a six year loan? How much do I need to make per month to make that happen?
Factor in insurance. And I’m like, okay, this is what I need to bring home extra on the side outside of my day job. So it’s not affecting what our current we’re currently doing in our current life. It won’t affect one on vacations. You know, it has to be for my wife to bite off on it. It has to be completely paid for by something else.
And that’s when I was like, all right, this is, this is the tag. This is how much it’s going to cost per month. What business am I going to come up with to make this happen? And I, uh, I’m a car guy, so I know car people, like I know, I know I can make a product specifically at the, at this point it was shirts.
So I knew I could make some designs that weren’t like a super trademark infringing and [00:11:00] like, I can’t just like put like the Chevy bow tie on a shirt and sell it. Like I have to like actually make a design myself. So. I actually have graphic design experience too, like I really love art and graphic design.
Um, so I came up with like some generic car designs, put them on a website called Teespring and on Facebook there’s groups of segmented people that like certain types of cars. So like there’ll be a Chevy Corvette Facebook group with like 80, 000 people in it. That’s 80, 000 fish in a barrel. That love Corvettes that will love a cool shirt that has something Corvette related on it.
You post the link in there. And the cool thing about Teespring is they print and ship it for you. So I did that and like in 30 days I did like 2, 500 in sales. So I was like, all right, well there’s the first car payment on that. And then I was like, well, okay, well I know that car people also love hats. So anytime you go to the track, there’s people wearing like black flex fit hats with.
You know, uh, either like a part of a car or a race team or something on the hat. So [00:12:00] I was like, okay, I want to do that for hats and started looking and there’s no website that did it. So there, there it was. It’s like, okay, so not only can I build this to use myself, I can be the teespring for hats, right?
So I’m like, that’s huge, right? So I stood up the website and put my hat designs on there and it sold like a hundred hats in the first night. And I’m outsourcing all the creation of the hats to my friend’s mom in St. Louis, where I would send her an Excel, she’d go, she’d stitch them, I’d pick them up, bring them home, box them all individually and take them to the post office.
So I did that for like three months, right? And after paying her all of those times to do it, I’m like, man, this is really cutting into my margins, you know, I need my own machine. So then I got my own machine and then I’m like, not really, you know, I never run in a, I run in a boarding machine before I was doing.
So like I had to learn it, but staying up till three or four in the morning every night, getting these hats done, not realizing how long it was actually going to take [00:13:00] in all of that. Right. So that’s that right there is like when, you know, it really started being a lot of work because I was staying up getting the orders done.
Um, and I think I had posted that I got the machine and on Facebook and one person I was friends with had a business and they ordered a hundred hats for their business. And I was able to process a hundred hats for one person versus a hundred hats for a hundred people. And it was so much easier, still took forever, but it was one person I had to worry about and for X amount of dollars, right?
Covered the machine payment. Um, covered almost a little bit of what it would cost for a Lamborghini. Not quite. Um, but that right there is when I shifted the focus. Like I got to stop wasting my time on all these one offs and find just businesses like for my time best spent, it’s going to be in these businesses.
And after finding a couple more and doing those on a single head, I’m like, well. You know, it’s, I can only do one [00:14:00] hat at a time. I need to get a six head machine, which does six hats at a time. And this thing is like 42, 000. It’s like the single head was 18, 000 with the software that I needed to like make the designs and then another 42 grand for this machine.
So it’s like, all right, YOLO, let’s do it. Right. And the thing is, is like by getting these loans and these machines. It puts the pressure on me to make sure I at least sell enough to pay for the machines. So even if I didn’t feel like working or feel like making the sales or making the, you know, making the money to get the car that I wanted, I had to at least cover the payments on the machines because otherwise it’d be coming out of my personal account, which is already down to zero because I overextend on everything, right?
So I, and that’s how I operate best is external pressure. Like that’s what keeps me going. It keeps me, keeps me driving forward. But funny enough that that six seven machine was delivered the same week my first kid was born. So I’m doing my day job nine to five. I’m coming [00:15:00] home stitching hats till three or four in the morning.
I’m getting a 42, 000 machine delivered to my house while I just had a newborn baby born. And I, in hindsight, I’m just an idiot. That was so much stuff. We made it work. Um, and that, that was the early days, right?
Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what, what do you think it was about you that had the spine? I mean, a lot of people aren’t going to go out and buy an 18, 000 machine on a, I hope I can sell some hats and, or a 42, 000 machine.
I hope I can sell more hats. Like there’s a lot in there, right? So how do you unpack that? I mean,
Robert Hamm: for me, like I saw how many people were excited about hats. And wanted hats and I, I did see the gap, like at least online for being able to get, get them from a good source. So like I knew without, uh, without a shadow of a doubt that I could find people to buy hats.
Okay. It’s just a matter of how much time I spent trying to find them, like doing the sales myself. And that’s, [00:16:00] that’s really what, like, I never really felt like, you know, The only thing it would be is like, if I just, if I stopped working, then I would, you know, like I said, I wouldn’t bring in the sales to, uh, pay for the machines.
But you believe in that
Brett Gilliland: process enough that you could go out and do the
Robert Hamm: ads and do the things. And like, I honestly, at this point where I’m at now, after doing this for five years, I’m pretty certain that if like, if I, if I have a product that I believe in. I’m pretty sure I can do the same thing. Like it’s, it’s with most product.
If you have a good product with a good offering, a good price, and especially a good customer experience, you’re going to be able to sell it. Yep. Just no matter what it is. Yeah, right. Yeah. And that’s, that’s like, I, I, it, I believe myself a lot more now than back then, but, um, it is, I think it was just that belief that I know I can do it.
And honestly, like by forcing myself into those loans. I had to do it. Yeah. So it wasn’t like a. Yeah. No. Right. Yeah. It wasn’t [00:17:00] like a thing like. If it didn’t work. Who cares? Right. It’s like I had to. So by doing that, you force yourself into doing
Brett Gilliland: it. What have you learned throughout this process of, of stress and how you handle that?
What do you do to overcome that? Like help our listener.
Robert Hamm: It never ends. No, I’ll tell you that. Like right now I’m probably the more stressed than I was back then, uh, with this whole building situation and getting that done, like choosing conventional loan conventional loan versus SBA and like battling them out between the two.
And like, if we go conventional, it’s a 20 percent down payment or SBA it’s 10%. But now it’s a hundred percent financing through SBA, but to do SBA, you’ve got to do a phase two, uh, EPA environmental. And if that comes back dirty, then, and you know, if the remediation on the building is more than the cost of the property, I can’t buy that property anymore.
It doesn’t make sense. And then I’m like, Oh shit, where am I going to go? Like we have to get these businesses together into the same roof. Um, let [00:18:00] alone just to operate better, but to continue to grow. So it’s so stressful right now, but the stress is like, it’s, it’s always there. It’s always going to be there.
I mean, you’re going to have stress. It’s it puts stress on your marriage. It puts stress on your friendships. It puts stress on you just in general. Um, it’s just, I guess just managing it. And honestly, I don’t even really know how I manage it. I just do it. Yeah. Like
Brett Gilliland: there’s a passion for what you’re doing though.
I mean, there’s gotta be a passion, right? I mean,
Robert Hamm: creating, creating. Yeah. Creating the product, like I, there’s nothing more fulfilling and gratifying than seeing a problem, especially for me with like the software side of things, seeing a problem and creating a solution that solves the problem. And then seeing customers using that and getting, you know, having happy customers at the, as the outcome of it is so gratifying and with doing what I’m doing in this business, like we do that.
It’s like every week, there’s a new problem that’s solved and it keeps, you just keep going and the wins. So the wins outweigh the stress [00:19:00] and it’s like some, it might outweigh it to where it’s a wash and you’re just neutral, but it keeps you going for sure.
Brett Gilliland: So I saw on your website, talked about, uh, delegate, automate and innovate.
Yep.
Robert Hamm: So talk to me about those. Those are my, those are the three words that mean a lot to me. So like, when I think about, uh, Um, when I was at work and I had, so I had the six head and the single head of my house, my wife would go out there in the garage and run orders and she just did it on her own. I didn’t ask her to do it.
She just knew that I had a lot to do and like she’s watching the baby, but the baby took a nap. She’d go out there and do it. I come home and the 10 orders done that I needed to get done and I was like, holy crap, if I could just have someone doing this while I was at work. All I’d have to focus on is like getting customers and writing code.
Like this would be great. And that’s where the next phase of the growth of the businesses, I got to get this out of my house and find a part time person to run these machines [00:20:00] for me. Cause I can’t have a person working at my house. It’s just awkward, but that’s delegate. So delegating tasks to free yourself up to do the things that you’re good at.
Yes. That your time’s most valuable spent doing.
Brett Gilliland: And so I’m going to add to that. So I was 20, I think I was 24 getting ready to be 25. I hired my first assistant and I remember after the end of the year of 2003. Going home and saying, okay, to my wife, I’m going to hire an assistant and it’s basically, basically going to be about 60 percent I’m going to pay this person 60 percent of what I just made the year before.
Right. Right. And so it’s one of those defining moments in my life, right? Where it’s like, wait, you’re going to spend 60 percent of what you just made to hire another person. You’re not really that busy anyway. Right. But to what you just said, it freed me up to do what I’m uniquely qualified to do. Right. I always say, go out and play in traffic, go meet people, build a network, right?
Do those things. And so I think for our listeners, if you’re debating on hiring somebody, man, you just got to do it. You just got to do it. Again, I keep saying it. Bet on [00:21:00] yourself, make the hire because you’re going to do the work.
Robert Hamm: Right. And worst case, if it doesn’t work out, get rid of them in a month and find someone else that does work.
Right. Right. Right. And like, that’s funny. Like today with the assistant discussion, I was literally talking about that this morning in the office. I’m like. I have to, like, before I came here, I’m going through my inbox where there’s 4, 800 unread emails and like organizing them. It’s literally a waste of my time.
And I’m just trying to get my inbox cleaned up, but it’s like, I have to have someone at least. At least putting things on my calendar and going through my inbox because that’s, it’s such a, it’s such a kill on time. It was three hours deep into that and I barely had them cleaned up. Right.
Brett Gilliland: Well, Robin’s right down here behind us about 12 feet away.
I can tell you since 2005. Uh, she’s been unbelievable, right? The things it frees me up to do. And she’s the dream processor, right? I’m hopefully we’ll be the dream maker and she processes the dreams. And so that’s what we kind of do with our [00:22:00] clients. But you’re right from calendar management, email management, those things are two things that get off our plate.
So that delegate is a big deal. So that was delegate
Robert Hamm: automate. Yep. Automate is the tech side. Well, automate and innovate. So automation, like when I look at every single part of my business, How can I use tech to reduce the amount of man hours it takes to do it to make it easier for the man hours that are actually doing the work, get it done.
And or can you just completely make it so that no one even has to do it? It’s just automated. And a lot of it is, especially when you’re dealing with like customers, like, like a DT, uh, direct to consumer business. How can you let the customer? Solve their problems for themselves. So Amazon’s really good at this.
And like, uh, I, I, I say I want our custom hat business to be the Amazon of custom hats. Like I want it to be that hands off and that easy for anyone to go to our site, buy custom ads and get the product. If there’s ever [00:23:00] a problem, railroad, the solution to the problem. So the customer, all I have to do is click a button.
Type click done, you know, there doesn’t have to be any back and forth customer service doesn’t have to be any uncomfortable Conversations on our end or their end like we know what we’re gonna do in the end of the day to solve that problem How can you make it so the customer can just do that themselves get there and be done?
So looking at every single part of the process in the business and applying automation in any form And doing that, like at the, the smallest grader level makes the business more profitable, more scalable and better than anyone else. How much
Brett Gilliland: think time are you doing? I’m a big believer in think time. You see these journals and the journals back over here.
I’ve been doing it since July of 2005. Like that’s where my ideas come from. So are you thinking a lot? If so, what’s that process for you?
Robert Hamm: Too much. Okay. Right. Uh, so, um, Uh, it’s funny that you say that too, because I actually think about this the morning too. This is hilarious. Like you’re tapping into my brain right now, [00:24:00] but like, I don’t, I don’t take notes.
I have no notes. It’s all in my brain and I, I don’t know, like I wish I could be a person that could write down on a piece of paper what I’m thinking or take notes. Like when I’m in, in a meeting, like talking or listening to someone speak, like me taking notes does not help me at all. So I, I don’t, I, my, I don’t really understand myself or like why I’m able to do it that way.
But I do think constantly to the point that I could be in the car with my wife driving down the road and she’s talking to me. Um, and I’m not listening because I’m thinking about processes and the problems that are currently going on. Um, I think ADHD has something to do with that too, uh, with the way my brain works.
But uh, that’s a, that’s a whole other podcast. Yeah.
Brett Gilliland: Well, if I could, I mean, I would add to that the schedule. So delegate, automate, innovate, doesn’t rhyme with everything here, but the scheduling part, what I’ve found is. So as I’ve, my business has gotten bigger [00:25:00] and more people is the think time was important, but I also had to schedule things, right?
Because same thing. I could be driving down the road and checked out, but you know, like we want to be in the moment, right? You want to enjoy your kids, enjoy the journey and it goes fast and all those things is I found is me having to schedule it. If I can’t delegate it, I can’t delete it. Right. I got to schedule it.
I got to do that quickly. Right. Yep.
Robert Hamm: And that’s something that I’m bad at and getting way better at. Um, During the beginning of this thing, like I’ve never had a schedule and, uh, my life has just been chaotic. Like I I’m the guy that showed up to work late every day. So like. I was an awesome employee because I did great work and I really like blew managers away with how, what I could do, like technically.
Yeah. But I was the guy that they always brought up because he is late every day. Like, come on dude, just show up. I remember I got, I got put on a performance improvement plan. It’s like I was a contractor before I was actually hired at Express Scripts, and there’s some [00:26:00] issues with being a contractor where like.
Management doesn’t actually know how you’re doing back at the home office. Like you got your manager above you that says he’s late every day. That’s all it gets back. But you know, when they actually ended up hiring me as an employee, like the kind of shows that I’m doing pretty well, pretty good. But, uh, yeah, it’s hilarious.
Like, you know, I was put on a performance improvement plan, but then here I am now like running a business on my own and it’s really hard for me. To hold employees to a schedule when I myself was a turd being an employee back then, right? So it’s super awkward and like I that’s one thing with me is I actually don’t want to be the boss I don’t want to be managing the people.
I don’t want to do any of that I just want to you know, I want to be pulling the strings and executing the business and let other people handle that but yeah, like another funny little side note is like Um, I, I need, I needed a schedule and I was trying to schedule my life and like build a day for myself that was structured.
Right. And I actually wrote out a list like of times that I wanted to do things in the [00:27:00] day. Right. And at the top is like Robert’s, Robert’s scheduled to not be a piece of shit. It’s literally what it said at the top. And like, it was like 7 a. m. Wake up. You know. Be out of the shower by seven 30 done. Right.
No, no taking hour long bathroom breaks where I’m thinking on the toilet. Cause that’s where I do all my thinking is on the frigging toilet. Uh, I think a lot of men do, but, uh, and just like lunch at 12, like be home at five 30 and then dinner at six and like that never, never, it can never happen. But I did that two years ago and I pulled it up again and Um, that, like I looked at my day now and sub, sub, like subconsciously it’s kind of fallen into that.
And I was like, holy shit. Like I’m waking up at seven. It’s the power of writing it down. Yeah. And I, I guess I didn’t really think about that till now, but like, you know, I have to drop my daughter for a school daughter off at school at eight 30 every day. So I’m at least, that’s something that I have to do.
So that figured out my first little section of the morning. I get to my office at nine. And [00:28:00] then, you know, the other stuff in there is kind of not really scheduled, but it is getting to a point where it is kind of stuff’s kind of falling in place. So it’s, it’s super interesting that my life is kind of just like figuring itself out with this thing.
And especially as I start delegating more, it’s like at the start of the year, hiring Tyler as our CFO and then Danny as our CEO, like. Danny’s operating, managing all of our people, all of our operations. Tyler’s managing all of our finances and executing all that stuff for that. I was doing both of those things before they started.
Right. So getting that stuff on the plate too has also helped with the scheduling stuff. So
Brett Gilliland: delegate, automate, innovate. Jeff, is this a time where I do my Jeff, our producer over here? Is this a time I, I plug my, my, my, uh, my own journal, which you got to copy over here. This is going to help you, man. This is your daily planner, your weekly planner, your Sunday.
I mean, it’s got all sorts of stuff in here, man. So we’ll talk offline about that, how this was a game changer. This is 20 years of work for me in one spot now. So I can go as a busy professional and dive into it. [00:29:00] So, um, let’s talk about our potential, man. We, I think, you know, as people listen to podcasts, hopefully this podcast, there’s a lot of potential out there and we’re, we’re maximizing it, but how do we maximize it more?
Get it to the next level that we want to be the number one hat guy, the number one financial guy, you know, in the world, right?
Robert Hamm: Yeah. The more, the more I do this and kind of going back to like, if I started another business, I’m pretty confident that I could just make it work, you know, because of what we’ve done here.
Like, I feel like you, you get to this, you get to this next level of like thought process where you start looking at the things around you for what they are like that barrel over there was built in a factory somewhere that probably employed a hundred people. That’s probably a hundred million dollar business that just made wood barrels.
Yeah, and it’s crazy the stuff that Everything around you is made somewhere by a company that makes a ton of money to do that Yeah, and there’s so much stuff in the world that You just need one little sliver of that. And to [00:30:00] do it, you just have to do a little bit better than the other guys are out there.
Right. And it’s, to me, it’s just, it’s almost debilitating because now I have so many other ideas that I want to execute on that I can’t. Cause I’m pigeonholed into my business now and I know if I leave it, it’s not continue to flourish and grow like it is. And I want it to, but I have so many other things that I want to do that I just right now I can’t.
But I know if I, if I stick to it for five, 10 more years, I’m going to have like this, not, not, not only just free time, but the capital to be able to build a team myself to execute on my visions and plans. But you just really start to see the world for what it is. Uh, as far as businesses and products and how that works and realize that if you just put the time and energy and effort into it, it’s, it’s gonna work and anyone can literally do it.
Anyone. Yeah.
Brett Gilliland: So the circuits of success are your attitude, your belief system, um, the, the actions that you take. [00:31:00] Ultimately get the results that you want, right? That’s the circuits of success, hence the podcast name. And so, but your belief right there shines bright. And so I think for people listening, it’s belief in ourself.
It’s belief in a process. It’s belief in showing up to work is belief in the goal. It’s belief, whatever the things are, right, that’s gotta be. And what I’m hearing from you, uh, is your, to your core, you believe in your work ethic and what you’re going to do and what you’re going to go build true.
Robert Hamm: Oh yeah, betting on myself.
Yeah. I know if I bet on myself, I’m going to be the person that’s going to have my best interests in mind. I’m going to be the one that has to do the work, so I’m just going to continually bet on myself and push myself to get where I want or need to be.
Brett Gilliland: What 2016?
Guy, right? So yeah, Robert’s two years away from even starting this biz. What advice would you have for that guy? Oh boy.
Robert Hamm: Wow. [00:32:00] I haven’t even thought about that advice. Oh boy. Get help sooner. Like if I would have got out of my garage a little quicker and had more help at the beginning there, it would have just scaled faster.
But um, Yeah, that’s a, that’s a tough question. Uh, I, I really wouldn’t change anything because worked out like all of the, all the turmoil or stress or problems or like, what’s really funny is through growing this thing, I’ve had moments where I felt like I had to reach out to the person that’s done it.
To get advice and every single time I’ve done that, they’ve never responded. When you think about like saying an Instagram DM to like Andy for Sela, like the guys that you listen to on the podcast, it’s like, if I could get them to just talk to me for an hour, they have all the answers, but every time that connections ever made, or I never get the advice, you figure it out on your own [00:33:00] and when you figure it out on your own.
You really know it, you know, you see
Brett Gilliland: me scrolling here because I just wrote down on my weekly scorecard for this week So I was I was right down every week my biggest awareness Yeah, it’s what my biggest awareness was and what I wrote down was I was with somebody yesterday and it’s you know Sometimes you think people could be different if they’re in your same position Yeah, what you just said you got to reach out to them, right?
They’ve got the magic answer boom the world is figured out. I wrote down my biggest awareness was We’re all the same people. We’re all the same people. Yep. We’re doing great
Robert Hamm: work. Yep. Keep freaking going, right? And I think and what’s funny is not now. I have a YouTube channel 1, 500 subscribers, I’m killing it But I have people reaching out to me in the same way that I was reaching out to those people for the advice and it’s like, my advice is, is you have to put in the work and that’s like, we can go on the whole tangent of what I feel about all the fake people on social media and like, so my YouTube channel is, I want to [00:34:00] be showing the truth.
I want to be the true side of the entrepreneurial journey and show it unfiltered, never sell a scammy course on how to get rich quick or successful because the people that are going to respond to give these people advice, it’s going to be for their monetary benefit, like almost a hundred percent of the time.
And if it, if. If that person isn’t doing that, they’re freely giving the advice through content like a podcast or YouTube channel. You know, that’s right. So, um, I, I, I gosh, I, I love. Just watching the, the, the fake gurus out there, you know, sell their courses and stuff where Selling courses on something.
They’ve never even done themselves, right? They’re making the money on the… I follow
Brett Gilliland: that, like they’ve never built anything. They’ve never built a business and it’s like, man, I don’t know. I could have a whole nother show about that too. It drives me nuts. So, um, let’s do it. We’ll do it together. We’ll just talk about like real raw
Robert Hamm: [00:35:00] stuff.
Pull up their Instagrams. Well, I got this
Brett Gilliland: little ladder over here. You can’t see it, but you know, it talks about, you know, your, your perseverance, your courage, your, your belief, your attitude, you know, all those things. And then ultimately you get the freedom. And I think what I always say is you, you tip the ladder upside down.
That’s the way people want to climb the ladder. They want the freedom. Right, right. They don’t see the stuff at three o’clock in the morning when you don’t even know your name, you don’t, you can’t even sleep because you’re so sleep deprived. You got a baby bottle, you got a diaper over here, oh and by the way I gotta be at work five minutes late tomorrow, right?
Yep. They don’t see that side. They see the guy that’s doing a million a
Robert Hamm: month side acts. Exactly, right. Yeah, and that’s uh, that’s where you just, there is no quick path to get there. It’s always gonna be the work. And even if I did start something new, I would be in, I would start from the dirt up, like I would have, I’d have a leg up because of what I’ve built now and knowing some of the pitfalls I went through.
So it will be easier the next time, but [00:36:00] you’re still going to fail. You’re still going to trip on yourself. And it’s just, just put in the work. So how many of
Brett Gilliland: the fears you’ve put in your mind have actually blown up to the magnitude you put them in your mind to be?
Robert Hamm: Oh goodness. Uh, I, you know, we’ve got over 40 employees now, so that weighs heavily on me and it’s like any downturn in sales, even at just the day level.
Like if it was a bad day in sales, I’m like, Oh shit. I go, my mom works for me. Like. There’s, my sister works for me now too, geez, what am I doing to myself? My sister in law works for me. Like, it’s family, it’s family at this point too, you know? Like, if this goes belly up, my family’s out of work. But then I think about it, like, you know, those people can go get jobs somewhere else too.
Not that I have to. I ever
Brett Gilliland: go belly up, we go to this extreme of…
Robert Hamm: These fears that’s where it always goes
Brett Gilliland: right [00:37:00] false evidence is appearing real we put them in our mind They don’t blow up to the magnitude. We put them remind me. Yeah, maybe you have a down year Maybe you have a bad month a bad quarter. I don’t know right but in reality is you’re gonna pivot You’re a good enough business leader and a good business owner and you get
Robert Hamm: the grind hustle.
You’ll pay and honestly The hard times are the good times because that’s when the business owner, the executor really straps in and fixes shit and makes it better. So in this current downturn and ads not doing well, I’m going through the customer’s experience and making it so much better than it ever was because it’s the uncomfortable pressure of like, I’ve got to make this better because we need more sales.
And it’s, it’s the problem right now that needs fixed. Right? So I hunker down and I, I, I’ve rolled out a lot of really good shit. That’s having a great, uh, great return in the business, but it’s the pressure of like, and the, and when things are great, you know, we’re doing seven or 50, 000 a month, I’m just like kind of coasting, you know, this is great.
Yeah. And then that’s seven 50 dips down to 500. [00:38:00] And we’ve staffed up to handle what seven 50 takes to get done. And you’re kind of like, Oh shit, we got to get these sales back in. I got like, what’s going on? Right. You know, wait a few weeks to make sure it’s not just a blip. Then if it’s not just a blip, all right, we’ve got to hunker down and figure something out.
And it’s, uh, I’ve really realized that it’s like, it’s in the times of the discomfort where you really prevail and make things better. So you. If things are perfect, you’re never going to learn, improve, or do anything. You’re just to be complacent. What’s
Brett Gilliland: a, what’s chat GPT,
Robert Hamm: AI, all those
Brett Gilliland: things. How are they going to impact our
Robert Hamm: work?
Oh God. Uh, word salad, essay dissertations on every LinkedIn posts underneath the comments of people trying to look cool. Uh, not even just LinkedIn posts, Jesus. Uh, the entire internet is going to become word salad, word soup all over the place of people. Creating clickbait blog articles. I mean blogs are already flooded the internet [00:39:00] for SEO purposes Just get freaking clicks and ad revenue It’s just gonna create this generic just blah of an internet space and I really dislike it The art side of things really cool.
So like for me as an artist, I can just type in to get a Inspiration or an idea to create something and I think that’s really really cool It’s like I could get inspiration take something that it shows me and then recreate it to actually make it look Yeah, I would never expect something spat out from AI to be like the final art piece But using it for inspiration I think is super powerful.
Um, but as far as the, like I, so I actually, I hired my first programmer, uh, shoot, maybe almost a year ago now. Um, and he’s, he’s completely green right out of school went to rank into, um, and he’s chatty to be a lot. And every time, every time I see him pulling it up when we’re talking, like sitting down and do something and I’m like, here you go again, using chat, TCP to teach you what [00:40:00] you’re doing.
Um, and I’ve tried it a couple of times and I was surprised at how good it was at writing a solution. But three out of the five times I tried to use it, it didn’t work. It wasn’t right. And it’s AI, the biggest problem with AI is it’s not actually artificial intelligence. It’s pulling data from human inputted data.
Like databases, this is our words, our code, our everything that we’ve just put in these data sets that the AI is pulling from. It’s not thinking of anything on its own. No, it’s not artificially creating anything. It’s just pulling. So in the form of like content of texts and everything, it’s literally just taking a bunch of different sentences and words that other people have written on the internet and putting An article.
Yeah. And when you think about trying to get like factual information from AI, where is that AI pulling [00:41:00] the information from? How up to date is that information? You don’t know. Yeah. So it’s like
Brett Gilliland: two or three years behind. Right. Yeah. So it worries me for critical thinking for our kids.
Robert Hamm: Oh, for sure. So you just go there now and type something in there.
I wish I had it in school. I would never do. I mean, I didn’t do any homework anyways in school. But. I would do it because I could just make Chatty TV do it. Uh, geez. Scary man. Math problems literally show you what to write to get the equation done. Oh my gosh.
Brett Gilliland: Crazy. Last question here for you, a future greater than your past.
That’s the logo here. That’s a, you know, hats you guys have made. That’s the, uh, the mission of our firm is to help people achieve a future greater than your past. So when you hear that, what does that mean to you?
Robert Hamm: Growth, just personal growth, like learning and constantly improving. Your relationships, like for me, I need to improve my health.
I’m not a healthy person. I eat terribly. I don’t drink [00:42:00] water I drink diet soda every day like I need to get in a gym, you know Like for me, that’s one part of my growth that I want to see better in myself And also the schedule stuff like I want to get better with that I do want to be able to detach and spend time with my kids like you said earlier Because you know, we just had our second and she’s two months now four and a half year old man Uh, three month old almost, but being able to really spend time with my family, you know, and that becoming a dad and a good father, like that’s another part of my growth too.
Um. Um, I, I hope everyone has the ability to be a dad and a father too, cause it’s super cool. It’s nuts. Um, yeah, that’s, it’s just personally bettering yourself. Like that’s where I want to go. And if, if that happens to be in a business space too, that’s great. You know, it just improves my life and the life of those around me, you know,
Brett Gilliland: I love it.
Well, I think they can exist. I mean, that’s what I’ve tried to make a career out of, right. That your personal, professional, your financial, your spiritual, your emotional, your intellectual, all those [00:43:00] areas physically. They can all, uh, be together, right? That’s what we’re trying to help people do. So where do our listeners find more of you and your company and an easy process?
So I can go in and buy, you know, hats, get
Robert Hamm: some hats, uh, hat launch. com. That’s where you can order hats. Uh, we also have shirt launch. com so you can get shirts just as easy. The website is about. Eight months out of date from the hat launch one. So I do all my innovations and stuff there. And then I take all that code and paste it into the shirt launch side.
So the process is good, but not as good as hat launch, but, uh, it will be soon. Um, but on, um. Um, I’m the launch dude. So launch dude, basically on all social media platforms, but YouTube, the launch dude, launch dude was taken by a guy that has like one video from 20 years ago on there. Dang it. Uh, but yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m really hitting the YouTube stuff hard and I’m putting a lot of work in these videos.
Like they’re 20 minute long videos that are hopefully Netflix quality is what you guys see out of it. The old, the older stuff. No, like that was me [00:44:00] doing it myself. But now like I got a producer, we’re actually. Lives with me in my house for weeks at a time, follows me around and that is freaking exhausting.
Let me tell you, like, I don’t know how celebrities do it. Have a dude following them around with the camera, like being on camera all day by itself is exhausting and then doing it while trying to run a business is like, holy crap, this is hard. Um, but yeah, please YouTube. Like and subscribe
Brett Gilliland: awesome, man.
Well, we will send people your way. We’ll put it in the show notes. It’s been awesome Having you
Robert Hamm: robert. Thank you for being here, man. That’s great That’s
my grand city great school education there
Brett Gilliland: so much. Thank you
45 min
October 23, 2023 Unlock Your Competitive Edge with Chris Dreyer of Rankings.io
On this episode of the circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews Chris Dreyer, the CEO and founder of Rankings.io. Chris talks about his competitive upbringing, his journey to becoming a digital marketer, and his decision to start his own agency. He also discusses marketing tactics, relationship equity, SEO, and branding, as well as the importance of having a coach or mentor and taking care of his health. Chris is looking forward to growing his business and real estate portfolio. Tune in to learn how to unlock your competitive edge!
https://youtu.be/JDEQtDzdK9Y

Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success podcast. It’s the Circuit of Success podcast. With your host. Brett, Dreyer. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Brett, Brett. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Go over. Brett Gilliland visionary wealth advisory. The circuit of success podcast to start this show. Welcome to the circuit of success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland today. I’ve got my old buddy Chris Dreyer here. What’s up, man? Excited here. Speaker Chris Dreyer: It’s good Speaker Brett Gilliland: to have you back in the building. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Yes. Yes. It’s changed. It’s changed. I miss it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yes. So Chris used to be in our office building here now. He’s living the life in Southern Illinois. Right? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Southern Illinois Murfreesboro, Marion. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Love it. It’s a good area. God’s country. Right? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Right. What else? Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s awesome. Well, it’s good to have you, man. You are the CEO and founder of rankings, Inc. Five thousand man, five years in a row. Six years in a row. Who’s counting? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Who’s counting? Who’s counting? That’s old news. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You know, it’s just old news. So six years in a row, man. And, What I think is cool is I I didn’t know much about you or your business and, you know, here you are. You’re on our second floor and like, what is this rankings dot I o thing? I don’t even know what I o is, and it’s like, you know, as we’ve, you know, gotten to know each other, and I’ve seen you grow over the last five, six, seven years, whatever it’s been, It’s been amazing to watch, man. Thank you. So, but before we dive into all the great stuff, let’s talk about what’s made you the man you are today. And go into that back story a little bit because there’s a drive that’s in there. Oh, yeah. We gotta figure out what that’s about. Speaker Chris Dreyer: But let’s let’s hear. Let’s look. Like, what do you wanna know? How far back? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Hey, whatever, can some moments in your life that you think, this Speaker Chris Dreyer: is Speaker Brett Gilliland: probably why I do what I do in today’s world. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Yeah. So the audience is probably gonna think I’m a crazy person after some of this, but, let’s see. So in I was really competitive in sports, and my dad was like, always drilling me. Like, weekends were practice. It didn’t matter. Like, we got the reps in. To the point where, like, some of my friends, like, they would wanna come to practice with the dad, and then they’d come and be like, no. We’re never going again. And I was like, yeah, it’s practice. It’s not shoot around time. Alright. So that kinda Dreyer stem from him. He’s very Rick Ricky Bobby esque. Like, second place is the first loser. It was, like, basically my dad. So he pushed me. I went to college. I knew my mom always told me I was a rebel, and I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I was honestly a terrible student Speaker Brett Gilliland: I Speaker Chris Dreyer: don’t know how I ended up with a history education degree. And I thought I was gonna be a basketball coach and do the collegiate path. Just stay with the competitive side. And I got this job at Herron High School, and I was the detention room supervisor because if you’re a supervisor there, it was the same track teaching. So I could do that for two or three years and be a fourth year teacher. Right? And I typed in how to make money Gilliland I took this course. And by the end of my second year teacher, I was making, like, four times the amount doing digital marketing I was teaching. And it was just Speaker Brett Gilliland: time to go. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Time to go. Yeah. Well, I got paid those summers off. So it was like, I get paid the whole summer, and I got this. And I moved to Florida, and my roommates all work from home, and it just wasn’t the best environment as a party environment. And my I hit this first Google algorithm that everyone talks about and it took my income down from like, let’s say sixteen or like two Wow. Back in, I wasn’t the saver of money, or the investor. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Mhmm. Speaker Chris Dreyer: And so I got on Craigslist because that’s what you used to do. And I typed in SEO, and I sent off my resume to so many people that I hit their filter, and that’s just an insane amount. And I got hire I got three job offers, and most people say Chris, well, which one you did you take? And well, I took all three because they’re they’re remote full time jobs. I had my team, and they’re all agencies. So I got to see what worked, what didn’t work, And after about a year and a half of that, I I got the confidence to start my agency. So that’s like the fast paced version. There’s a lot of chaos and, little things learnings and, Speaker Brett Gilliland: victories and losses. Mhmm. Yeah. So what, when when did you bet on yourself to say, you know, instead of getting this nice gig from these big agencies, I’m gonna bet on myself Gilliland I’m gonna go out and do this on my own. What was that turning point for you? Speaker Chris Dreyer: The real turning point was I had the three agencies because I had a team, and I and I today, everyone talks about delegation and working on your business and SOPs and all these things, but I already had that. I had a knowledge base and processes that my affiliate team was from the Philippines, and I was using a company called OdAS. It’s now Upwork. And so I was the best employee to all three jobs. Because the amount of productivity I could do was so much more than everybody else because I had a team behind me. And I that’s where I got the confidence always say, you know. Speaker Brett Gilliland: The team behind you is from these other employees. Right? These other companies. Yep. Speaker Chris Dreyer: I I like to say that confidence gives you confidence. You probably heard a version of that. And I just the confidence increased enough to where I started the agency. And just from a math perspective, it was like, I only needed a handful of retainers to to make the equivalent of what I was from a salary perspective. And I knew that I could hustle and do it, and that’s what I did. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s just a math problem at that point. Right? Yeah. So, for that, so you started that, and and I think what I’ve appreciate it over time watching you. What what I think is also scary for a lot of people is you you went into a niche market. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Right? Oh, yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m only gonna work with lawyers. Right? Attorney lawyers. Was that scary? And if so, how did you overcome that? Speaker Chris Dreyer: The scary, yes, different aspects of it. Right? The the first thing I thought was I didn’t have I was under capitalized, And I knew that if I was gonna hit multiple industries, I need to have a lot of capital to really have the best chance to succeed. I know there’s a lot of stories of other people that did it, but so I looked at Gilliland being transparent, there’s a status component to legal. It’s not like you’re doing home services for you know, pest control, not saying anything’s wrong with pest control companies. There’s a little status component there. It’s been around for a long time, so a little bit more insulated to from risk versus new tech or AI or web three or whatever, not to say those aren’t emerging too. And I made that decision, but the real decision that I did was different is I took not only legal, but I did a subset for personal entry law. And that was the real scary part because it’s, like, I’m saying no to all these areas of law, and I’m only gonna focus on this one. So my Tom, significantly smaller. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. And so when you think about that, then how did you go about marketing yourself? Right? So if you’re a new agency, I could work with this big guy or a big gal, New York or, you know, California wherever. How did you differentiate yourself to then get the client? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Yeah. That’s a that’s a a big question here, right, is differentiation. And back in the seventies, this term evolved, and it was a USB. That’s when it came about. But really what it what it meant was how are you distinct? How are you distinctive in the market? One way to be distinctive is to be the best and to be to focus on a certain area. There’s perception that you’re the best in that field, but, you know, you gotta remember every brain surgeon has their first brain surgery. There’s a perception there no matter what you know about them from their background. So that was that was part of it. The a lot of times people talk about marketing and and doing different tactics, and they miss the relationship equity. And for example, even in the legal space, I don’t I don’t know the top criminal defense firms or family law, besides maybe some locally they hear on the radio. But in the PI, there’s an awareness that comes about, and you kinda move up the ladder from a relationship equity. And now, you know, I know Morgan and Morgan. I know Mike Papantonio, but it took time to develop that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So how did you do that, though? So, like, the yeah. I mean, so because I think about it in my world too is trying to find the people that I’ve been able to be around, you know, in my career. I didn’t start that way, though. Right? I was working on people that, you know, we could barely rub two nickels together, and that’s where we all started. Right? And so I’m always curious about how you got into the circles and the roles that your people you’re with now. Speaker Chris Dreyer: In the beginning, I didn’t have a ton of capital for distribution for TV and radio and all these things. So I had to do the things that didn’t scale. So that’s lot of one to one, shaking hands, taking people to breakfast, taking them to lunch, building that network, and doing social media, all the things that that don’t really scale have to do them kind of individually. One of the first things I did was I knew I was in the legal vertical, and I was just looked on LinkedIn. I’m like, who is in the legal space that I could meet with, and I had breakfast locally. In fact, like, right across the street with a few Gilliland I just stayed connected with him. There was fine law, reps, some, from Thompson Reuters, and ended up being referral relationships. And That’s kinda how it set the tone. Of course, once you get more capital, then you can pay for paid ads and distribution and you know, even your your podcast, things like that build over time. But early on, it was a lot of belly to belly, a lot of shaking hands, a lot of relationship stuff. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It was funny because I wrote down this is five years ago now I’m forty five, but when I was forty, I wrote down things, and I one of the things I wrote down on the top forty things I’ve learned in forty years was take the lunch. Because a lot of times people are like, I don’t wanna take the lunch or not, you know, it’s not gonna result in anything. It’s not gonna be I’m not paid for it. Whatever it may be. And it’s just I found for years. They they go on belly button to belly button. Right? Eyeballed, eyeballed, build a relationship. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Mhmm. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Good things come out Speaker Chris Dreyer: of it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And you don’t know when, But good things come out of it. Do you agree? Speaker Chris Dreyer: I I couldn’t agree more. And and there’s a certain trust component Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Chris Dreyer: That comes from that. And you know, even though when we’re talking about leverage, there’s not a lot of leverage that is one to one versus what we’re doing, you know, your audience. It’s like a keynote presentation every week. Right. But those are the things that I think the trust component is a little bit of an intangible. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So talk to us about SEO search engine optimization. Right? So people hear that, but the the layman terms for guys like me that we hear it. We don’t know exactly what it means, you know, whether I’m a lawyer, a financial guy, Carboner, whatever it is, how important is it, and what in the hell does it actually mean for us as business owners? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Really good question. So search engine optimization is essentially when we think of this, let’s just call it Google. Yeah. Google owns the lion’s share. It’s it’s making sure that your business ranks at the top of Google. For whatever industry you’re in, and there’s a lot of challenges to go with that. Of course, you can do paid and and do that immediately, but that could be very costly. The from an organic perspective, it’s creating excellent content, targeting keywords, making sure you get your content endorsed, which is backlinks from other websites, and each space is a little different. Right? If even in law, if I was gonna target, say, a patent attorney, there might be only one in the city. Just by the nature of being the only one, you automatically rank. But when we’re talking personal injury or criminal defense, ton of saturation, ton of competition, Gilliland it demands real expertise. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Chris Dreyer: And that’s what it is. And that’s that’s when I think of it, it’s just one channel of many, and it’s and we’re just playing the game of attention arbitrage. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And I think too, I I learned this years ago from I can’t remember where I even learned this, but even if you make a, charitable donation to somebody, Right? They even said, ask for your website to go on that thing, right, that website for cancer, whatever it may be, because that helps. Right? It helps back in the algorithm. Is that right? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Oh, yeah. And I’m sure there’s there might be some SEOD is listening, but, yeah, it’s it’s an endorsement. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Chris Dreyer: When another website has your link, to your website Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Chris Dreyer: On there. It’s it’s an endorsement. It’s a vote in terms of trying to win that election. Point Speaker Brett Gilliland: system. Right? Mhmm. Basically points, the more points I get the higher up I rank it. Speaker Chris Dreyer: It’s a math game. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. So the podcast certainly doesn’t hurt. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Doesn’t hurt. The big thing about podcasts is a lot of us, including myself, we we transcribe. Yep. The episode, and a lot of times we’ll put a link to the website of of who your guest was. Well, that’s a link. So it’s a good tactic for You know, the guest, it’s it’s excellent for the host too, from a distribution perspective. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like it. How do you focus on branding and how I’m is branding for a, for us business owners. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Oh, boy. Branding, it’s it’s absolutely essential. There’s there’s so many components that goes into it. I I think that it’s what it really comes down to is is memorable, standing out in a crowded space, And when people talk about the rising costs of these channels, a lot of times they’re talking about direct response, marketing, and because it’s very short term orientation, and they’re not looking at a long term perspective. And really when you’re getting those lower CPA’s, those lower costs require client, it it it comes from brand and word-of-mouth marketing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. And so you focus on that from just the name of your company? Is it I mean, what do you focus on when you think of branding or a different word, whatever word you use? Do you think about there? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Yeah. It’s it’s critical. I think of a company and personal brand. So myself, I have my interests, my hobbies, my expertise, but then the company has its own, reputation that it wants to surround itself from. And it goes back to being distinctive, like, how do you stand out amongst all your other competitors, and those are the through line messages that you wanna reinforce to your audience. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So how would you do that? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Yeah. So the thing that I did, I hired an outside consultant. We read every single review. We surveyed our clients. We surveyed our our employees. And it it was a lot of data. And we found kind of some commonalities of what people were repeating, and and we’ve kinda leaned into that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So would you say, how many employees do you have now? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Right now, we got, for rankings, we’ve got around forty, forty two. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. You said for ranking. So is there something else as well? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Yeah. I I have, seven companies now. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Speaker Chris Dreyer: So I’ve got a real estate company. I’ve got another agency got a content company, got a media company, and it’s and I’m not trying to blow you. It’s it’s it’s it’s came from basically the main cash cat, which is rankings, just opportunities. It’s led itself to these others. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. I like that. What, what habits would you say you have, or what are you doing right now to stay in the game and be a student of the game, for you and your industry and your businesses? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Yeah. On the edge, some obsessive learning. I mean, we were talking. I was joking. I was hanging out at Barnes and Noble today. The every morning I read a I read or listen to an audiobook or a podcast. So I’m at, like, eighty four business books this year to date. Got a business coach, Bobby Castro. He had a little exit of a billion bucks. That’s it. Just a little manages like seven hundred Gilliland or million in real estate. So he’s helping me think bigger and raise those ceilings. And then, in a few masterminds, and I’m just a a student of the game. I love the game. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So talk to us about that coaching. So, I mean, I looked, you know, some of the sports stuff behind, you know, I at Michael Phelps back there. And, you know, he had a he had a coach. He’s the the greatest Olympian of all time and best swimmer of all time and and, it’d be hard to believe his records will be broken, but, you know, he had a coach. He had a nutritionist. He had all these things. So why is having a coach so important? For you. Speaker Chris Dreyer: The biggest thing is it just lifts the ceiling of what you think is possible, and and I really need to equate this. I would say there’s a coach perspective and then there’s, like, a mentor. A a coach would be more, like, accountability and, like, working on the tactics. And I think when I said coach previously for Bobby Castro. He’s more of a mentor. Like, here’s what’s possible. Here’s here’s how here’s what worked for me as opposed to just holding the accountable. And I think there’s, excellent reasons for both. For me, I’ve always struggled with the diet and health. So a, you know, a fitness and diet coach or nutrition coach, which I have now, is way better for me because I haven’t had the consistency, and I’ve need a little bit more accountability or tactics. On the business side, I’ve got the tactics from reading and all the masterminds. Right. I need more of the mentorship. So it’s just evolutionary and and just learning, you know, you’ve gotta continue to improve your skill set to compete. I think Speaker Brett Gilliland: putting your money where your mouth matters though. I mean, I’m assuming all those aren’t free. Mhmm. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Oh, definitely not free. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You’re writing a big check for that stuff. Yep. And so why is that something you feel that’s necessary. Cause a lot of people would listen to me, like, dude, this guy’s screwball, right? Or I have a business coach. I’ve paid a lot of money to coach over the years. Why are we doing that? There’s Speaker Chris Dreyer: money is the equivalent of it basically keeps you accountable. Like, there’s no sunk cost. Right? It I think of it like this. Like, if I was gonna go to the gym and I don’t have a personal Dreyer, I could maybe make an excuse to not do something because, you know, hey, it’s I don’t have the time, whatever, but when I’m paying someone, and I’m gonna let that person down because they’re spending their time. There’s a different level of accountability and commitment that goes with that. And for me, I I find that that it’s just very, really effective. Yeah, I’ve had multiple coaches in different areas and disciplines because a lot of times books. They are mindset or motivational Gilliland they really don’t get tactical for, say, financials. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Or different things of that nature. It’s just really challenging from that medium. And I’ve needed those for different disciplines. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I do. I agree. I think the books, I I read a lot. You know, ten pages a day minimally. But when I think of that, it is it’s not the real meat and potatoes. Yeah. Right. And and so I think that that’s another good reason to to go out and hire a coach and and doing that. So let’s talk about the grind as well. So do you enjoy the grind? I assume so or you wouldn’t be doing what you think. Yeah. But, like, what what is it about the grind that you enjoy? Speaker Chris Dreyer: I’m gonna sound like the biggest nerd in the world, but Speaker Brett Gilliland: I used to be a Gilliland Speaker Chris Dreyer: I would play, like, the the RPGs, the role playing games where you, like, you have this guy and they level up. They get some coins. They buy better equipment, or that’s what that’s what business is. Like, you you start with a few employees, and then you get more, and You have more capital to invest in things, and it it is truly the game. I enjoy the game. I hire people I enjoy working with. One of the fir the easiest way is to leave the company as if if, like, you’re toxic and just Yeah. So it really matters for value. So Yeah. That’s that’s what keeps me going for the for the grind. And it’s just I can’t I can’t have that same enthusiasm playing a video game and Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Chris Dreyer: It’s like that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So how how do you how do you handle the stress? Is that easy for you? I mean, because it’s not just a game because this is, it’s a big game we’re playing. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Yeah. The stress one’s really tough. I haven’t really perfected that one. Honestly, the hang out with the family and wife and traveling and and getting away and decompressing, really going away from tech really helps me And, yeah, I’m I’m still working on it. I can’t I would say that’s one of the biggest issues of shutting it off. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. Yeah. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Head hitting the pillow. It’s still, just firing on all cylinders. So I might have issues sleeping, but some might need to improve on. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So how do we do that? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Maybe maybe get a coach for it, maybe talk to people that have had the same challenges. And and I think I have an awareness that that is an Gilliland it’s changed because when it was just me and the wife, I had more time now that I’ve got my son it’s like, oh, like, I gotta be really intentional about all this. And, so, yeah, it’s it’s gonna be a lot of effort to improve there. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And I was just as a, you know, the old wily veteran I am. My my oldest is eighteen now, which is hard believe. So I got eighteen down to nine or eight. No. Nine. It’s just it’s crazy. Right? Life get busier. And I think the more the people that listen to this or for yourself, whoever, the the more we can structure our time, right, and be purposeful and have the ideal calendar, the idea of day, the ideal week, I have found that is to be more way more productive. Speaker Chris Dreyer: I couldn’t agree more. You hear these individuals that have mastered it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Right. Like the Rob Dyrdick where he’s like managing by a Gilliland then you have the Jesse Itzler that’s like talking about these Is it Missogi and these experiences that he has? The He’s a Speaker Brett Gilliland: phenomenal follow. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Oh, yeah. Amazing. Amazing. And So I think those are the individuals that model because clearly they’re both phenomenally successful Gilliland the there’s a lot that we can learn from. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. So what when you when you think about AI and you think about chat, GPT, I’m asking a lot of guys these questions now because it’s, you know, it’s all you hear about. Right? So what are your thoughts on those things? And where’s our world gonna be five and ten years from now with this stuff? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Really good question. It makes me think of, like, Ravacans, four c’s of leverage, which is like capital code, and then there’s content and collaboration. Right? Well, tech and software being AI is this code. It’s just a form of leverage. I asked our team when it came out. I’m like, look we are we farming without tractors? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Are we Speaker Chris Dreyer: are we row cropping this content? Like, can we use AI? And that’s what it is right now. It’s a tool there has to be human oversight for, especially in the legal vertical. You could really run-in the issues. So can it help you you know, ideate headlines and outlines and things like that more quickly or do some research? Absolutely. Can enhance your productivity. Is it a standalone right now? Not right now. Thankfully, I may not not have the SEO gig anymore, but but Speaker Brett Gilliland: that’s where we’re at Speaker Chris Dreyer: right now. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Do you think it will? I mean, I think it’s gonna take some people’s jobs away. Don’t you think? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Oh, yeah. I think so. I think Google’s gonna change. Look, the the search generative experience. We for a long time, people are talking about these no clicks and how AI is gonna eat up. Well, there’s rich snippets now. Speaker Brett Gilliland: If you Google if you go to Google Speaker Chris Dreyer: Now they’re for snippets where it doesn’t take you to your website, so it’s just gonna be more of that. The thing that people don’t talk about enough Danny Sullivan talks about this is the more content goes on Google and the more adoption it gets. So there’s more adoption, so there’s more usage. So it’s not gonna be just complete fall off entirely from these AI scenarios. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And I think it’s still gonna be a human experience there. Don’t you think? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Human experience. Also, AI is gonna want to consume as much original content and thought as possible. So being truly unique and not just urgitating things is gonna have a lot of value. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what would you tell yourself now? So you’ve been doing this gig since, what was it been six years, you said? Speaker Chris Dreyer: So the agency been ten years a little over ten years, but on entrepreneur on loan for about sixteen. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Okay. So what would you tell yourself fifteen, sixteen years ago. Ten years ago. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Whatever. Geez invest. Throw in that that throw it in that index fund. The I would say what what would I say? I would say don’t be afraid of hiring. It was a little bit. I tried to do everything myself. Even early on, even though I had some freelancers and just have to look at things differently Gilliland and scale yourself, that’d be one of my biggest tips. Speaker Brett Gilliland: What is it scary to hire people? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Oh, it’s so I was really resistant to, like, HR. I was like, we don’t need HR. Like, why do we need HR? You you hit this certain point, I think, you know, into eight figures where you have all these additional administrative cost. You have HR and finance and a bunch of mid managers, but they’re a necessary component of scale. And, yeah, so that that was something I had to get over. It’s just more people. Speaker Brett Gilliland: What fires Chris up today? What what are you what are you excited about? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Jeez. Just just growing as a business owner, I I think that there’s levels in this game. Like, right now, I’m I’m a CEO, and I wanna be an owner and a chairman. And instead of me having to figure out who I need to hire, hire the CEO that figures that out with scale. So that’s that’s like what I’m excited about. Speaker Brett Gilliland: How long is that away you think? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Couple couple years probably. Yeah. It’s exciting. Right? Yeah. It is. It is. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what’s next, man? What’s next for you and what are you gonna continue to build? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Yeah. I’m I’m really trying to grow the real estate portfolio. I I look at it as like the it’s the equivalent of buying SEO retainers permanent SEO retainers that sign year long contracts that are used to raising their rent every year. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Chris Dreyer: So I’m looking forward to more of that. And, man, just being a dad, you know. Once my kid starts playing sports, that’s gonna be a whole another journey. Speaker Brett Gilliland: You gonna do it the same or different? I will do it a bit different than my Speaker Chris Dreyer: dad, the discipline, the training, and coaching, be there, maybe a little bit more of the positivity. Sorry, dad, but, Speaker Brett Gilliland: sorry, dad. Yep. What’s the drive? You know, I I think about that a lot right now with, you know, two high school kids in sports, and a eighth grader in sports, a fourth grader in sports, like, you know, my my dad didn’t push me. I went on and played some college Gilliland. And, I mean, they pushed me, but but it wasn’t like I probably had a different deal than what you had. And so I don’t know what’s right, man. You’ve had all sorts of people in here, and you hear all sorts of different stories, and it works a million different ways. Speaker Chris Dreyer: But I Speaker Brett Gilliland: want them to follow their passions do it the way they wanna do it, and I’m sure that’s what’ll happen with your son. So when you hear, achieving a future Dreyer than your past, what comes to mind for you? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Geez legacy. I would say legacy. Cheat, you know, teaching the values to to my kid and his kids and and passing on the financial wisdom to or to have these opportunities and just that’s what I think I think of legacy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s awesome. Last question, fears, how many of the fears you’ve put in your mind have actually blown up to the magnitude you put them in Speaker Chris Dreyer: your mind to be? Oh, that’s a deep one. Immediately when you said fears, I was thinking of bs because I’m allergic. But bs, a bs. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I just had this conversation yesterday. We’re at golf tournament, a charity golf tournament, and a guy was telling a story from a few years before. He went back to the golf cart on this hole we were on, and he took a drink of his beer, and all of a sudden, a Wasp was flying around in his mouth. And he got stung, like, six or seven times. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Oh, that’s like my worst nightmare. Speaker Brett Gilliland: No epi pin out there or whatever. And I’m just like, oh, So anyway, I apologize, but did they just happen yesterday? I’m like, that’s good. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Fears, I just tell. You know, I wanna be there for my Gilliland I’m trying to secure, you know, everything as much as I can, but I I think that that’s probably the biggest fears is staying healthy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Is accountability there? Speaker Chris Dreyer: It’s there recently, but it hasn’t been in the past. Yeah. I just did, Fricella’s, seventy five hour. I just finished two days ago. Speaker Brett Gilliland: How you feeling? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Fill up better. Drop about twenty, got some new habits, working out every day, and it was tough. Really tough. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So seventy five hard for those listening. He’s probably heard of it. Be anybody listening to podcast notes about it. But if not, so, two workouts a day forty five minutes each. One of them has to be outdoors. Right? Mhmm. Read minimum of x pages with Ten pages. Ten pages a day. You get drinking a gallon of water. No booze for, seventy five days and, no cheating on your diet. Yep. Is that correct? Speaker Chris Dreyer: Yep. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: what were you eating? Speaker Chris Dreyer: So I just did keto and I did the the factor meals, so that helped out a lot. But then the no booze wasn’t, you know, I I have drank you know, every weekend for a long time, but that wasn’t as hard. Honestly, the hardest one for me was the gallon of water. Just because I felt like there was no options. Like, I wanna soda, but, oh, man, I got another forty ounces of water. I gotta get in. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. So you feel different? I do. I do. I look Speaker Chris Dreyer: I look a lot different too. And I had, was the inside tracker? I hear that on who’s at Hubermann’s podcast. Yeah. And I bought that and what triggered this is like my cholesterol and every all the numbers are terrible. I was like, I gotta make a change. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what’s the inside trackers that the thing that goes in your arm? Speaker Chris Dreyer: So they they basically come to a blood, blood draw on, like, all different types of, metrics. And it’s really in-depth and it has an app, and it shows you, like, you should be and where you’re at and recommendations. And I I got, like, a really bad score. And I’m, like, okay. It’s time. I need to I need to fix this. Need to improve. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, I think for me accountability is there. You know, we did it and of course it worked so well for about ten months. We stopped doing it over the summer and we’re just getting ready. I hope we’re gonna get it back together and I say, I hope It’s it’s me. I started this thing, but it’s thirteen of my neighbors and my buddies. And so I sent a group text out and then, you know, we gotta meet my backyard 6AM. And it’s like, you know, if I’m not there, there’s, you know, twelve of my buddies in my backyard. It’s kinda weird, you know. So for me, I need that accountability. I think that’s what’s what’s got it. I gotta do it and get it back on it. But man, it’s been awesome having you, Chris, on the second success. Appreciate your time. It’s always good to see you, my man. Speaker Chris Dreyer: Yeah. Awesome. Thanks for having me.
31 min
October 16, 2023 Put Something Big on the Calendar with Marc Hodulich
On this episode of the Circuit of Success podcast, host Brett Gilliland interviews Marc Hodulich, the founder of 29029. Marc talks about his goals with his business, which are not to be the biggest or most profitable, but to have an impactful community, build a legacy, and have something that lasts. He also shares his journey to success, the importance of peak performance in life, and his experience as an entrepreneur. Marc encourages listeners to take risks and put something big on their calendars.
Full Youtube Episode Here!

Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilliland. Today, we’ve got Mark. Hodulich with this, Mark. How you doing, my man? Speaker Marc Hodulich: I’m great, Brad. How are you? Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’m good. I like those pictures back there. Looks like you got some, mountain maybe, mountains and a leg, get some kids, stuff going on, creating experiences. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Europe ski trip, dog, kids, all the things. Speaker Brett Gilliland: A white picket fence. You got it all, man. Well, cool. I am excited to have you today. So you are an avid adventurer, your accomplished entrepreneur, father of two boys, married, founded and exited multiple companies. One of them, which I’m assuming is what that red hat is right there, is the two 09:02 nine. And, we’ll look forward to talking about all that stuff. But before we do that, I’d like to dive in and kinda learn about the past, man. What’s the background? What’s the story you’ve got that’s made you the man you are today? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Well, thanks for having me. It hasn’t been a linear journey. I’ll tell you that. But, But briefly, yeah, look, I had a great childhood growing up. My dad was a runner. I got to be a competitive runner in late middle school to high school or in tracking college. And I think, you know, for the basis of just discipline and commitment to a goal, didn’t achieve my goals at all as a college runner. I ran at Auburn and as much as I love the school. I probably shouldn’t have been running in the SEC. I was good enough to make our travel team and ass kicked at every race that we went to. So, you know, it was a humbling experience, and then always just kinda dream big. Right? Kind of felt like I knew what my life would be like if I moved back to Burring him out, Pamela, where I was originally from. And right after school moved up to New York Gilliland, you know, it’s kind of knowing what the goal is, but having no idea how you’re gonna figure it out. I knew I wanted to live there. I knew I wanted to be in consulting or work in finance. It was a tough market. It was right after two. And, yeah, it was just a really tough time to find a job in the world of finance. And so I did everything from sell payroll door to door at ADP to work at Thomas Pinks, telling luxury clothing goods to, working at caterer, and it took me about four months to find a really good management consulting job, but I wasn’t unwilling to put in really hard work that maybe I felt like my degrees and my background and my skill set maybe weren’t aligned with. I was just willing to put in the work to try to find the Gilliland, yeah, you know, I kinda just, met my wife in New York. We have married seventeen years now. And pretty quickly in the world of management consulting. I know it’s not what I wanted to do a long time. Still had always that side hustle mentality and had founded a business off to the side and eventually was able to to kinda leave my consulting gig and do that full time. And that’s kind of change into the world of event production, a lot of live events, community building, and finds me where I am today, which is, you know, running a company that I founded with my partner that we sold and bought back called twenty nine and twenty nine. And, that stands for the height of Everest, twenty nine thousand, twenty nine feet. And we built a really cool community and endurance concept really gives people a story to tell. You know, o over a course of a weekend, you know, you’re gonna go to Sun Valley or Whistler or Jackson Hole, and we’re gonna present a challenge of can you hike up a mountain and take a gondola down? Continue to climb it until you hike twenty nine thousand, twenty nine feet. So kinda very quick transition to where I’m at now, but Yeah. Never it’s never easy, and I think a lot of people don’t see all of the challenges, failed businesses, jobs you didn’t wanna work to kinda just see the lifestyle that you have now or or the position you’re in now. And, I’m only able to be here because this learning from my mistakes, but also having really great trusted relationships along the way that finally found the right way to leverage all those in this current business that running out. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s awesome to see. I mean, that you you talked about the community. I mean, the the twenty nine zero two nine is amazing. I mean, I watch through Jesse’s, social media stuff, Jesse. It’s with social media stuff. That’s how I originally got turned on to it and then through your stuff. It’s just amazing. It’s an amazing community. And Gilliland it’s something that people, I think of all walks of life can try to go accomplish. And so my question for you, if there’s a thousand people that do it, how many people are finishing it? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Depends on the location, but, I’d say, on average, around sixty eight percent, right, sixty eight to seventy percent finish it. Well, compare that to a marathon where you get about a ninety eight percent finisher rate. A lot of people are surprised by that. Marathons have an tremendously high, finish your rate. And then compare that to something that I’ve done as well, the leadville trail one hundred, which is one of the most famous, the kind of mountain ultra marathons, hundred mile run. That’s Hodulich a thirty five percent finisher rate. So I don’t wanna say we’re we’re in the middle. It’s it’s really hard. It takes a long time. But, it’s so approachable. We had a participant Jim Fisher who finished our event last year in whistler, eighty years old. Right? Oh, wow. And he said that it’s from that is frustratingly doable. Like, you just moved slowly walking for thirty five straight hours. Right? And so if you’re willing to forego sleep, or a little bit of sleep, it’s amazing what you can accomplish if you just keep moving. And, you know, most people do get to sleep three, four, five hours. Right? But we’re talking about one night of your whole life versus being able to say, hey, I win to Jackson Hole or Whistler or Sun Gilliland and climb that mountain 12:15, seventeen times until I climbed the height of everest. I sacrifice one night of sleep, you know, almost once a month. I do do that. I do I do them all. Right? And it’s, to be able to tell that story, but learn about yourself and the skills that you learn and the patience to discipline the commitment that the compassion, the empathy, all those things that happen because it’s not a race. It’s self scored. And you have thirty six hours to to keep track of your own hikes up the mountain. And, and be really rewarded with a a a pre turnkey experience. So not a not a super high finish rate, but at the same time, You don’t have to be an accomplished endurance athlete. And for most of our participants, they’ve never done, ten k, ten k, or even a half marathon before before set up for the event. Wow. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And what you talked about there is the mindset, man, the the to being able to do that, because I think so many times that little space here in our heads tells us we can’t do this. We can’t do that. It’s dangerous. No sleep. Or maybe you got a condo there. Maybe you’re sleeping outside. Whatever it is people are doing. The negative self talk is used. Right? And that’s in business, that’s in just anything in life. So what have you done throughout your life to to kind of flick that guy, that negative self taught guy off your shoulder and and compete and accomplish anyway. Speaker Marc Hodulich: I mean, look, I think it’s it’d be wrong for me to say that I got it all figured out. But what I tell you is I’m constantly putting myself in a position where, I’m gaining confidence through completing things. And I think that’s the only way you really figure it out is that the voice inside your head that’s telling you you’re not good enough. You’re not fast enough. You’re not strong enough. You’re not smart enough. You’re not working. Whatever that is, as you actually accumulate these small wins. And those wins happen a lot in training. Right? I mean, you don’t You get this red hat if you finish. Right? If you’ve gone twenty nine thousand, twenty nine feet, you you earn this red hat. And, you earn that red hat through five or six months of training. Right? It’s getting up in the morning when you didn’t want to. It’s going for a hike in the rain. It’s doing the workout in the gym for your hip flex. It’s all of those little things that add up to the finish line, and most people only see the finish line. So I think you’re able to do it on a consistent basis. Look, today I finished my run, and I was in a little bit of a rush for a call, and I would normally go in cold plunge. And I’m gonna plunge up my house for well over a year, and I do it every day. It’s gonna be a mental challenge to do it later today. I’m not hot after a run gonna be dark by the time it’s a chance to do it. You know, it’s it’s it’s gonna be out of my routine. But you get a small win from doing something like that. Right? You start developing that set. I think you just if she constantly put yourself in a position, where you have an opportunity to quit on yourself, and you realize that you didn’t, you sharpen that tool. So when you’re doing something really big like a twenty nine and twenty nine, you’re able to rely on some past experience there. And even if you haven’t done a big amount, or you’re you’re sharpening that tool through training. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So let’s we’re gonna divert here for a second is this cold plunge. So everybody talks about it. I’ve had the guy Ryan Dewey, the founder of Plun John, and and there’s a lot of great ones out there. He’s the one I know. But talk to our listeners about that, man. Because everybody that’s anybody that’s doing peak performance type stuff now is talking about this cold plunge. So is, is it a game changer for you like it is for a lot of people? Speaker Marc Hodulich: I mean, look, first of all, I have a plunge. So I’m not plugging it. I don’t get paid this whole thing. I’ve just had it for a while. I love it. I recommend it to a lot of people. So tell Ryan has made it a great product, and and I love it. It’s awesome. Right? Look, I I don’t know if all the longevity things are true, but it certainly does hurt anything. It it helps tremendously with recovery. And for me, it’s as big as a mental boost. It’s a physical boost. There is the very practical nature of just tend to be working out right before I have to go do something else. And I can’t cool off. I live in Atlanta, Georgia. It’s hot and humid. You know? And then it and it’s a wonderful thing to be able to hop in something for three, four minutes and bring your core body temperature way down. I sleep better with it. So I’m a huge proponent of it just because I see no downside. I think the mental toughness aspect is key. How I’ve learned, about breathing and breath work and control and and not panicking. And this helped my kids My boys are eleven and thirteen now and watching their friends come over. And and the the people who just can’t commit to it, make it way worse. And those just kind of surrender and just lay in it. You get the vagus nerve, and you just calm down. And, there’s a real trust and learning process there. So become part of my daily routine and just something that I feel like, if you have access to one, there’s really no reason not to be doing it. And and I think there’s potentially a lot unbelievable reasons to do it. Health benefits, longevity, recovery, and sleep. Sleep being a big one for me, I think. I sleep with a chili pad, and I I notice I sleep better. And you have to be able to moderate. Right? I wear a woot not sponsored by any of these companies not paying me to say this stuff. But, yeah, any day to be able to show you. Right? And I think, I see a big difference in my sleep and recovery from using those products, so they’ve just become a main setting. In my training and in in my life. And and honestly for my family as well, my wife does this stuff now. My kids do too. So I think you’re teaching them really good habits. It should benefit them for the rest of their lives. Speaker Brett Gilliland: What’s your temperature? What do you keep it at? Speaker Marc Hodulich: So that that was a big point of contention. When I originally got out of my clothes, I kept it at thirty nine to forty. And now we’re about forty five degrees, and it it it kinda works in the way as I’m sure you have one as well. It keeps it in a three degree. Period. Right? The chiller turns on once you get two degrees away. So mine’s typically forty five, forty six degrees, which Speaker Brett Gilliland: you Speaker Marc Hodulich: get all the same benefits according to the podcast that I listen to. And it’s much more approachable than thirty nine forty was, which was honestly brutal. Yeah. Yeah. So I Speaker Brett Gilliland: don’t do it every day, like like you. So I mean, are are you so you’re an everyday guy. No miss. And, which that’s a big deal. So that’s but but it doesn’t get easier. Does it? Speaker Marc Hodulich: No. Not at all. I mean, look, I I will just and I’m away at an event or a scouting new location or in a partnership meeting or whatever it is. You’re gone for four or five days. It’s really hard get mentally ready to be like, okay. I can do this. I gotta go back into it, but it’s never easy. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Are you a sonic guy? Speaker Marc Hodulich: I am as well. I have a sauna, and I’ve been doing that for a while. I used to have a seam, but I like the sauna a lot more. Yeah. Just able to stay in there longer. And, actually, it’s funny. It’s become a lot more social. Right? I know my partner Jesse used a lot for social, but it it it is. It is something at night. It’s nice to do after dinner. And, it’s just become a little bit not an everyday routine. I had a wood burning sauna for a while. I just got a new electric one, which, is being installed next week. It’s not infrared, actually. No. Okay. But, it’s got one of those hive, home heaters, the rocks Okay. That, really, really beautiful, modern looking. And, yeah, it’s just become it’s become something that, I feel like that, the coal plunge, And and then a few just kinda daily supplements have really been a game changer for me. So Yep. Speaker Brett Gilliland: And you say the feuds or you say that’s huge? Speaker Marc Hodulich: It’s huge. Yeah. No. It’s just been huge in terms of my, you know, daily oh, the few supplements. Sorry. Yeah. The few. I only take a few things, but I I just realized I lose, way too much sodium when I work out, and I used to only take salt pills or electrolytes, when I was actually doing a race. And that’s just been part of a daily program, and I’ve been taking athletic reins for a few years. And, really just enjoy that. I just feel like if I didn’t do anything healthy for my body that day, at least I at least I took some athletic greens that day. Right? And and got some greens. And, it’s a simple thing that has become, very easy when I travel to. Right? And, those types of things, making sure I drink enough water, get the electrolytes in and take my athletic greens. I feel like I’m at least doing a baseline of something that’s good for me. If I’m out of my normal workout routine. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. What, what’s someone do you use for the salt or the the electrolytes? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. So I’ve been taking precision hydration for a while. I just like that they have, the milligrams. So the total amount of sodium, they have tubes that are five hundred a thousand or fifteen hundred milligrams. And, that was very helpful for me when I did, like, super ultra endurance events, like, hundred mile runs, just I knew how many I knew how many milligrams I needed an hour, and it just made the math really easy. Right? Yeah. Rather than taking all pills and trying to figure out how many did I have or was, I could just take a fifteen hundred tablet and know I was good for an hour, and then take another one the next hour. Right? And, so I’ve been taking typically take their thousand milligram and drink that about twice a day. And it’s just a dissolvable tablet that I put in water. So Okay. It’s easy to travel with. And I just I lose a lot of salt when sweat. So I did a sweat test and just figured out how much salt I was losing. And and it’s just learning about your body. Everybody’s different. But I just realized one of my big fears in doing ultra endurance events was either over hydrating or not having enough electrolyte the way you fix that is just figuring out how much you sweat and realizing how much you need to replace not only of actual liquid, but the the salt the sodium, the magnesium that you need to get back in your body. So that just became a system that’s worked really well for me. And, I really liked the product. So Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what do you find as a business guy? Right? You’re a businessman, you’re a husband, you’re a father. But you wanna you wanna grow a business. Right? So what do you find that keeps you in peak performance? Is it just daily action every single day, everything we’re already talking about, or how do you continue find that extra gear to do all this personal stuff and the family stuff and yet still grow a kick ass business. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. I’ll tell you, there’s no such thing as balance. I had a Speaker Brett Gilliland: I agree. Speaker Marc Hodulich: So I better realize that you just have to optimize for certain things at at a point in time and then figure out, you know, what your kids need, what your wife needs, and actually make communication about this thing. So I did an Ironman in twenty seventeen. My wife has always been supportive, whatever I wanna do, and she said, not another one. Right? Is it the training Speaker Brett Gilliland: We’re tapping out. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. She said, I look, it was too much on her. I was just I was gone too much and, I was too tired when I was home. The amount of training that I was putting in. And, really, because it’s the multi discipline, right? You guys spend all the time in the pool, all the time, like, and then run. Whereas, you know, doing something like Leadville, your body just can’t run that much. You just break it down. So, where you can be on the bike for a couple hours a day, you can’t run that much. So what I realized is, like, when you start a business, it really needs all of your attention. And putting signing up to to launch a business, being an entrepreneur, whether you’re taking in capital or you’re bootstrapping it, and then signing up for an Ironman or a hundred miler, and then having a kid at the same time is probably not wise. Right? So you can’t always time everything in your life, but I feel like when I’ve had these periods where I’ve had a little bit of a lull, it was an it was a it was permission for me to say, okay. I’m gonna put something really big personal that I wanna go and do. Right? And maybe that’s an adventure, amount I wanna climb, a hundred mile or I wanna run, but I know that I’m in a season of life where I have the time to do that. My non negotiables always kinda been my kids. Right? They’re only gonna be in my the house so Gilliland and that’s why my wife said not another Iron man, because I didn’t miss time with my kids. I didn’t miss their sporting events. You know, when they were at baseball games, I was running in between in between games or running from one part to the next, but then I wasn’t with her. And so what I realized was after I did that, I needed to do something to support her. So she actually signed up into the the second twenty nine to twenty nine we ever did. And she never even done a ten k. But I went from having the support of her doing Ironman and then flipping it and supporting her in really her first race ever. And and that felt really good. It was really good for our marriage. So I don’t know if it’s advice. I’d say my lived experience is you have to go really deep when you’re an entrepreneur, but you don’t have to do that forever. And it depends on what your goals are. My goals with twenty nine and twenty nine are not to be the biggest company out there, not to be the most profitable. My my real goals are to have an impactful community to make to build legacy to have something that lasts. But maybe not maximize the profitability or the growth of the business. And that allows me to spend maybe some of that time that would may you may be spent on expansion if that was something that, was a success metric of mine. I can spend it on other things. Right? So I think it’s being very self aware. And also, honestly, just realizing you can’t do everything at once because other things are gonna suffer. And I’d rather do one thing or two things at an a plus than six. A b minus or a c plus. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Yeah. Don’t you agree to, like, putting things? Like, for me, it’s in my calendar. And so it’s self management putting it in your calendar. Like, if you wanna be there for your kids or for your wife, whatever it may be, like, write it down on your calendar and then fill in the work spots around it. Would you agree with that? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Hundred percent. And and look, also, I think it’s just to be honest with people. Like, last night, I had a couple Gilliland I only didn’t wanna miss my son’s football So I just told him. I was like, look, I can hop on the phone, and I can watch a football game while I’m on the phone. My son only plays defense. I’ll talk to you when he when the offense is on the Right? It was just it was a way to say, look, I can talk to you tonight or I can talk to you on Friday. But if it’s urgent, I’m happy to get on the phone. Just understand there’s gonna be cheerleaders and abandon the background. Right. But you can be flexible, work from a lot of places, and and I think where we’re at. This is unbelievable. Gilliland it’s also a curse if you can’t put it down. And so finding that quiet time, we’re gonna get some real structured work done. And really Gilliland and Orion holiday way be still, right, and and honestly make some good progress. And then also you can work from anywhere. And and so I I kinda take that liberty to be able to work from a bunch of different places, and it allows me to spend more time with my family or friends or doing other things, adventure related. So long as I carved out that time to get the real work done before I get on the road? Speaker Brett Gilliland: So let’s talk about the, the idea stage. Right? A lot of people have ideas, and and I’m assuming I don’t know how the the twenty nine zero two nine came, about. But you have an idea, and then let’s say, you know what, man? Let’s go make it happen. Like, nobody’s doing this. Nobody anywhere was doing anything like this to my knowledge. How do you take an idea and then turn it into a business model? Sell it and then buy it back. Let’s unpack that. Speaker Marc Hodulich: I’ll start with, have really good people around you who will tell you what a bad I is too. Right? And and I’ll say that lightly. Like, I have a few people that I’ve worked with for years and I really trust, and I can go to them. I’ve been in YPO, young president’s organization for a while. Now, you know, I’d go to my forum and say an idea that we beat it up before I spend too much time on it. And sometimes that’s just me having to defend my idea first, and get more conviction in it before I go and do something. Other times, it’s battle testing something and being like, hey, maybe this isn’t as good as studying as I thought. But I think the thing that that stops most people is just action. Right? And most of the time, you think the initial idea isn’t really that good, but by going out there and actually starting it, doing it, hosting the event, launching the podcast, writing the book, once you get started in the process, you get feedback, then you’re iterating to figure out what the what the public wants. What the right product is, what the right placement is, what the right price point is. Right? If you think about the four ps of marketing, you really can’t sit in a room for months and figure it all out. And how many successful companies have been founded had a pivot. Almost all of them. Right? And, with twenty nine, I don’t know that there was pivot, but if you looked at what we did, event one, how we sold it, how we positioned it. It was really positioned as like farm to table food, great bands in a cool hiking challenge. And after the first event, Jesse and I looked at each other, Colin, and we’re like, This is really all about the story of climbing the height of everest. Why are we spending money on farm to table meals and getting these bans from your city to come in. They’re these wonderful no one wants to listen to them. People wanna spend all their energy on the mountain. Let’s take those dollars and invest it in training. In coaching and mindset talks and and speakers and actually do everything to to not rip out components of the event and and replace it with margin. But let’s figure out ways to actually reinvest those dollars in a way that supports what we think actually people are looking for. And in helping them achieve their goal better. So that led to really refining a product. And I think what we really did at the very beginning We had two rules. I think it’s very important to, hey, if you’re a business by yourself, it’s important to kinda know what your vision and values are and write them down. Yeah. That’s a business one. I wonder a lot of people don’t do it. The second thing is it is really important if you have partners to make sure you have alignment there. But, like, what are your goals? Right? And our goal was very simply to care the most. And I know that sounds ridiculous, But, like, it’s really true. We just say, hey, look, if we want to really build community, we don’t wanna have something that stands out as very different from the whole world in the Derek sport and the adventure sport. We’re gonna care the most. And and how does that play through? That plays through in the the people you work with, the people you hire, the vendors work with. And then We’re now in year seven, and, we had no pay partners. Any. Right? And and so you realize, like, I didn’t want our participants to be the product. Right? I I wanted the product to be hiking the mountain. Well, yes, we could have had a cheaper ticket if we had allowed people to come in, like, BMW Land Rover and sell their cars to this audience. Right? Because it’s an expensive ticket. And I didn’t want that because I’d be servicing the sponsor and their needs and not servicing the customer. So we were very customer centric and caring the most, and that that led us to build something It was very authentic. And anytime we had an opportunity to chase dollars and sponsors and we focused on the customer, it was easy to go back and say, what do we wanna initially do? And is that still in alignment now? So, you know, how did that lead to showing a company and buying it back. Well, at the end of the day, selling the business was something that There are just gonna be points in time, and I and I think a lot of it just has to do with timing. There was a time period in twenty one where evaluations were absolutely crazy. Across all sectors, you had companies looking to go public. Companies going public. You had unbelievable amounts of private equity and VC cash, flossing, flossing around. And there was opportunity that may not exist again. Now, look, that’s a little bit hindsight, but you knew at the time there was a way of being built. And in buying the company back was, It’ll an realignment of goals. Right? I stayed on a CEO, when we sold the business. My whole team came with me. So it was a strategic kind of partnership and acquisition. But when I realized that, like, long term, the company that acquired us, didn’t really have a plan that married once they had to pivot their business model, they became like, well, I’m a buyer. I love this. I wanna continue to do it. And and being mature enough, I think, impatient enough for that opportunity to happen and not forcing it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, and and I think too, staying involved in seeing some it’s not hitting your passion and your mission. Right? I mean, I think the the clear we are is entrepreneurs as business owners. I mean, there is a clear passion and mission for what we’re doing in our firm. And I would assume if I got displaced from that but could still see, you know, kinda like the goldfish looking or looking at in at the goldfish, I could see this thing not going down the path I want. I I I don’t want that. Right, man. I want my baby back. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. And look, some of it’s just I became a lot more self aware. Right? Like, I had a business partner buy me out of a business. I had, a business go under. Right? And so I’d had success, some success had some failure, and then you have a big, a big win, like, selling the business. And I think a lot of that as an entrepreneur, you think it’s gonna provide some validation for what you’re doing. And what I realized was like, this is my passion. It wasn’t a mistake to sell the business. It was just that I wanted to buy it back almost more than I real thought I wanted to sell it. Right? And that’s because there was such an alignment in my purpose, in my passion. And and look, The acquisition was great. My whole team stayed with me. I continued to do the same job. And I just realized I’m a really bad employee. I’m an entrepreneur. And Right. You know, I I thought, oh, I’m gonna get through on a business unit. I’m gonna get to acquire other businesses like this and put my business model on Gilliland I realized that I’d rather just only have to answer to myself or my partners, collaboratively than than have a bot Right? I just realized there’s a reason I left as an entrepreneur in the beginning and, in recognizing that, I would be much happier going forward maybe even less financial opportunity, but more controller in my day to day was, it was much more valuable to me at that point of, that point of my life. And still, that’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, great learning. Right? It’s a great learning to know you just can’t work for somebody. I’m I’m not an employee myself. So it’s, it’s it’s good to know. So I saw one of your posts. You said there’s growing old versus growing up. Talk about that. Yeah. I mean Can you recall that post? Speaker Marc Hodulich: My dad is super close. I’m close to both my my my parents, and they’ve been married for fifty plus years. And all I see, my dad is, like, He still has fun all the time. Right? He’s still very fucking hard. And, like, yeah, you you’re gonna have to grow all at some point. That doesn’t mean you you have to to to mature too much to a point to not be able to laugh at yourself to try new things. And, so, yeah, it’s super important to me to stay young at heart. And, you know, I say to my kids, I hope this comes across humble, but we were at a a football game last week, and the the the steps on the bleacher are pretty big. And I’m I’m forty three. Like, I’m not thirty three anymore. Like, I think I am. And I myself in really good shape, but I looked at my son, and my my, my older son, because my younger son was on football field, and I was like, you know, look around, look at these dad’s, like, gingerly walking down these steps that are like my age around the same age. And I was like, I jumped down those things. Right? Right. I don’t wanna get old. Right? Like, I’m gonna try new things, but you have to work hard for that. Right? You have to You have to say no to some bad meals, not drink as much. You gotta get in the gym. You gotta do things, but I wanna preserve the ability of me being not only kind of young at heart and maybe even a little immature with my sense of humor or my ability to laugh at myself the way I approach things, but also physically just be able to do stuff for a longer period of time than most people my age are able to. I realize forty three still really young. But I wanna be able to do the same stuff when I’m seventy three. And I really do believe that’s possible, but it takes a mindset of kind of, like, staying staying young at heart to, I think, be able to achieve that. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. I I was just, last week. I went and, we played thirty six holes of golf per day out of bandon dunes out in Oregon. So if you’re a golfer, it’s phenomenal. Highly recommended to anybody listening. It’s a golfer, but we talked about it. You know, I’m forty five, and I’m like, man, this is a young man’s game. We’re walking because there’s no there’s no golf So it’s thirty six holes a day. We’re walking fifteen to seventeen miles a day. Thankfully, we had a caddy. But but it’s a lot. Right? By the end of the, you know, the first couple days, you’re you’re hurt So we did that for four straight days. And, but it’s but I had the exact same thought, man. Like, I don’t wanna not continue to be able to do this stuff because I’m quote unquote too old. And my actual long term goal in life is to play golf on my hundredth birthday and and, you know, shoot shoot under a hundred. You know? And so, that’s that’s Speaker Marc Hodulich: the goal. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So, yeah, I think I think having that stuff, but it’s important now. So what does that routine like for you? I know you said you’d like to run the cold plunge and the sun and all that, but kinda break that down for you, your food choices, and even your exercise. What’s that look like in a busy world today? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Look, I’m not as regimented as what people think. Right? Okay. I’m really regimented when I have a goal. If I’m training for an Ultra, a big race, whatever it is, I don’t mix a workout. Right now, I think it’s about finding some some way to move every day. I don’t know that these are, like, really amazing life hacks for people, but, I take a lot of calls. I’m on the phone a lot. My team’s remote. I walk constantly. Right? Now my friends will tell me walking’s not working out. So on one of those calls a day, I put on a thirty pound rucksack. You know, and and you walk four or five Gilliland thirty pounds when you’re back up and down hills, you build a lot of strength, core strength, back strength, leg strength, And I don’t consider that a workout. Right? So my workout typically is I run five miles a day, four days a week. And, I lift weights two to three days a week. And then, hopefully, somewhere in there, and depending on travel and what’s going on, there’s one long workout, whether it’s a long bike ride, whether it’s a long run, something of the duration of, you know, an hour and a half to two hours. Right? But food just through my nature of kind of trying to maximize as much time in the day, I don’t sit down for lunch. Today, the first thing I ate was through the clock. I realized I was intermittent fasting years ago, not even knowing Right. So, you know, I take my kids to school every day. That’s a non negotiable for me, and my wife has her time in the morning, and I take the kids to school. And then I’m working out. Sometimes before I take them, sometimes after, I’m really flexible, but I make sure I do something active every single day that I would consider a workout. And I don’t consider taking a conference call with a rucksack on a workout. It’s just I’m being active rather than sedentary. So I think for me, it’s always been about having enough hydration I don’t drink soft drinks. Like, these are simple things. Right? I don’t snack a lot. And I try to eat as healthy as we can. We try to cook in you know, three to four nights a week. But there’s no, like, super strict diet. It’s more or less just like a little bit of moderation. And a lot of activity. And I’ve just found, like, I haven’t gained weight, in probably thirteen to fifteen years, unless I was trying to to gain weight, but I’m really active. I’m on my feet constantly. I’m playing with my kids a lot. And, I’m only really in a routine where I’m tracking every workout and all that type of stuff. If there’s something big on my calendar. Otherwise, I’m just trying to be six to eight weeks away of hard training, be ready for almost anything. Right? I try to stay in good enough state And that’s something I learned from the, an amazing endurance coach, who works in our staff, Chris Howe, who’s rich roles, personal coach, and two time Olympic. He’s like, look, all my athletes are six or eight weeks ready from almost doing anything. Like, if you wanna go run a hundred mile run and I’m coaching you, six weeks from now, you could be ready. If six weeks of heart training. And while I’m not on that caliber, I’m pretty close to where if I put my head down for six weeks, I I maintain a level of fitness that could have me ready for almost anything in the six to week period. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what’s the next experience, man? What are you doing with your kids? And because that’s something I’m thinking about. My oldest is a senior, and I’ve got a, you know, senior a sophomore eighth grade, fourth grade, One of my first, college visit with my son, sorry Auburn, it was at Old Miss, another SEC there. And, it was fun. We went to the Grove, did a little tailgate before the ball game is incredible. But, you know, I’m looking for those those experiences. So what what do you have out there that you think would be cool with the kids, whether it’s adventurous, running, riding, swimming, hiking, whatever it may be. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. So, two things that I learned each independently from someone else, not my own ideas. One, when each of my boys turns thirteen, I had one turn this year. They get a pick anywhere in the United States, they wanna go on a trip. It’s just the two of us for three I had an opportunity to to go to London, and go to some Premier League games, and my thirteen year old super into that. So he said nice. Yeah. You can the US in London. So I gotta hop the ante for my eleven year old, when he turns thirteen. And then when they turn eighteen, you get to pick anywhere in the world they wanna go. And my wife and I, the four of us will go on a family trip together. And that’s been something that gets talked about a lot. And I want them to be really invested in it. They’re gonna have to plan it but it’s already being talked about in our family. So those are, like, two things at thirteen and eighteen, kind of, like, going into eighth Gilliland then going into college. I feel which is a really important time. One for me to just do one father, son, one to do as a family. As far as other adventures, you know, I found for me, the things that we enjoy most of the families if we get out of our comfort zone. And so I’ve really enjoyed going to other countries and immersing ourselves in the culture. And, experience that I’ve loved, you know, we we went to Patagonia. We’ve gone to Costa Rica. And they’re super, super active vacations. Right? Like, you want a vacation afterwards to just rest. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Marc Hodulich: But I want my kids to see the world. And I think, you know, even in the United States, you know, we tend to spend our summer We spent a few weeks in telluride over here. This last summer, because I had events in Jackson Hole and Sun Valley, we spent time in those locations. And, like, getting out in the mountains, There’s something to do every day. And I’ve really enjoyed adventures where my kids had to put a decent amount of effort into something. So the big hikes, staying up paddleboarding down rivers, the mountain bike riding. That stuff’s been very rewarding, even taking them up their first, like, thirteen or next year, probably, like, I’m a fourteen or with them. You know, safe routes, but, like, a lot of work. Right? And then you get to pay off of a view I really enjoyed those experiences where they kind of complained at the beginning. I did a dirt bike adventure, and I never ridden a dirt bike. We all had to learn how to ride dirt bikes together, camp out. I don’t like camping. Right? It ended up being something that was amazing. I did it with another entrepreneur and his son there were there were actually like four dads and four sons. So I found stuff like that to be really gratifying too. You have to come on and be able to go together. And then you’re doing it in an adventure where it’s not easy, but I I also think that the memories are so much stronger from doing those types of activities that we’ve done together. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’s incredible. Yeah. We do the thirteen and then they’re, the summer after they graduate. So it’ll be our first one finally, not finally because it went so damn fast, but our big trip, but They’re they’re they’re thinking a little bigger, man. Our our our first one when he was thirteen, it was a COVID. So we kinda got, you know, screwed in We ended up having a staycation here in Saint Louis, but it was nice. It was fun. And then, the next one picked Chicago, and then the the last one we just did in April was, he picked California. So makes us to see in a in a few years what our next one does. So, last couple of questions here, man. You you talked about earlier about dreaming big, and And we’ve really kinda been dreaming big and talking big this whole time. But what is that process for you? Because, like, for me, it’s it’s this black journal here. It’s setting down. It’s spending time myself. Thinking, it’s dreaming, it’s strategizing. Do you have a process like that that you could share with our listeners, or what is that dreaming big process for you? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. So I found works really well for me is I need to be moving, and I need to be outdoors. And I gotta get in a place that inspires me. And look, I Atlanta’s a beautiful like it, but it doesn’t inspire me. So what I’ve found works really well for me is to go to a beautiful place, spend time in nature, without any distraction. Anytime I run, I don’t bring my phone. I don’t wear an Apple Watch. You know, I wanna be away from devices. I think I’d be really good thinking there. And then You know, look, Jesse and our partners in a few businesses, and and and Jesse, for those little gnomes, a credible entrepreneur, super inspiring person, but if you think you have a big idea, Brain is someone who’s had ideas for ten times. Speaker Brett Gilliland: It’d be bigger. Yeah. Speaker Marc Hodulich: And and and and get pushed in that sense. I think that whether it’s related to twenty nine or twenty nine or not, when I’m thinking about something that I think is a game changer and you you you have a circle of friends and peers that are thinking big, and I don’t always think that that big means more money. Right? But just challenging yourself, a big adventure or whatever it is. Right? Having people there that you really look up to challenge today, are you thinking big enough or are you limiting yourself? And sometimes you’re starting really big and then refining on the way down, but I think that, that who you surround yourself with matters so much? Because when I’m thinking about adventures I’m gonna go and do, I’m comparing adventures I would do to Colinor Brady, who’s one of my partners, who’s got ten world records, and is he only with the first person to pull a sled across Antarctica for sixty something days self supported. Right? So think of an adventure as something no human has ever done before. And therefore, when I get ideas from him, it’s because we get training routines. Right? And that’s not diminishing what I’m doing, but I’m also not going to a circle of friends that are so impressed with what they’ve done. Yeah. They’re gonna think anything I do is outstanding. Surrounding myself with peers who have done such impressive things. I mean, I I personally have two close friends that devrode the Atlantic. I mean, that’s nuts. Right? I would never stop growing. Right? But when you start talking to them, they’re like, oh, did you know you can do this between Antigo and this? And that’d be really cool for, like, two days. Right? Or did you know you can Speaker Brett Gilliland: ski different? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. You can ski across Finland. Right? It’s eight day cross country skiing, and they set up you know, tend for you to sleep in it. So now me and my friends are kind of considering how is that something we do for our next guys trip. Right? So it’s kind of expanding who you speak to around these things and not not being nervous around sharing your ideas because a lot of times my friends are actually challenging me to think bigger And I’m probably a little too focused on something that is probably too attainable. And and, you know, they’re pushing me to think bigger because they’ve had such big experiences themselves. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So, seaside was on your, location thing for your deal. So watercolor seaside, you love thirty a down there? Speaker Marc Hodulich: I do. I really do. My parents started going down there in, like, the early two thousands. And that’s been changed Speaker Brett Gilliland: a bit. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yes. Changed a lot. And I think, you know, it’s easy to look back, but Gilliland say, oh, I should’ve bought real estate. I should’ve looked at this, whatever. It’s it’s interesting to learn from those moments too. Right? And and the people who did and the companies that invested there in the vision that they had to see what transpired to. To me, like, I I don’t look back and say I missed an opportunity to look back and say, what can I learn? From that area? What could I learn from what those people did? Because they took a lot of big risks. And, it’s I I cheer them for winning because, yeah, that area loaded It’s become a great family place for us. We’ll be down there for thanksgiving this year with my parents and and I’ll love it down there. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. We go there a couple times a year. I’ll be down there. I go in two times for the family and one time with a buddy’s golf trip down there. And I I had the same learning moment, man. I made an offer in a house in nineteen, went back and did the head scratcher in this summer and I saw what it sold for. I’m like, wow. That’s that’s a humbling moment. What do I learn from that one? But, hey, you live and learn. Right? Where do our listeners find more of you? Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. I mean, look, twenty nine and twenty nine. I mean, just Google two 09:02 nine, just the numbers. And then my Instagram panel is Mark, m a r c two 09:02 nine. So I’m pretty synonymous with our brand. Yeah. I couldn’t breathe it. And and, yeah, we’d we’d encourage anyone whether you’re gonna check out our event or something else. Like, put something big on your calendar. Right? I think it’s, putting something big on your calendar gives you, the opportunity to to be more interesting. And and you’d be surprising how much people just really care. About you doing something different, whether that’s running a marathon, whether it’s, you know, starting a podcast, whatever it is. I think, you know, putting something big on your calendar, allows you to be part of a conversation that you’re not starting with other people. They’re starting it with you. And, and not to be egotistical, but I just think it it’s it’s very interesting how that then leads into business and other opportunities because you’re just doing something that people find of interest. And, you’re continuing to challenge yourself or something all too often people think about doing it, but don’t do. So I would I would just encourage people to find something no matter how scary surround yourself with people that will support you in doing it, and that’s really what we’ve been trying to do at twenty nine and twenty nine since the beginning. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Also, creates a sense of urgency for your training, man, to stay in shape. Speaker Marc Hodulich: Yeah. I need that. I need that for sure. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome, man. Well, Mark, thanks so much for being with me on the circle of success. Hang with me when I hit finish here. And then, but man, really appreciate you being on the show.
42 min
October 09, 2023 Becoming Revolutionary with Amy Parvaneh
On this episode of the Circuit of Success, host Brett Gilliland interviews Amy Parvaneh, a successful business owner and entrepreneur. Amy shares her experiences of starting her own business and her challenges, emphasizing the importance of developing technical skills and personal branding. She also talks about dealing with competition and anxiety and provides advice for people who don’t enjoy networking. Tune in to learn how to break stereotypes and succeed in your career!
https://youtu.be/stbegXbLGOA

Speaker Brett Gilliland: Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I am your host, Brett Gilliland, and Damey, to Damien. Today, I’ve got Amy, Parvaneh with me. How you doing? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: I’m doing great. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, it’s good to have you. I forgot to ask you where are you calling in from? What part of the country? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Orange County, California. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Orange County. Beautiful. It’s an awesome area. We were out in my wife and four kids. We were in LA, Santa Monica area, which I know is not Orange County, but out there in April. So it was a lot of fun. It’s a cheap place to live, it looks like. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Oh, very cheap. Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s like, goodness gracious. I’m like, this place is great. Was crazy. Yeah. With four Gilliland, my wife and I, you know, it’s like you couldn’t do anything for under a couple hundred dollars for, like, lunch. It was nuts. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: It’s not New York though. At New York, I I bought one latte for ten dollars. I think I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like before? Or Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It was nuts. We the first night we got there, we got to our hotel, and I ordered a glass of wine for my wife, and I got an old fashioned, you know, been traveling and guy comes back. He’s like, gotta be fifty seven dollars. I’m like, oh, alright. Welcome to welcome to California. So, anyway, We could chat about that all day, but you are the founder and CEO of Select Advisors Institute. You are big in the RIA space, which is what visionary wealth advisors were registered investment advisor. And you do outside CMO work. It’s a chief marketing officer type work, and I know branding and sales helping firms across the country and referral a referral litics is another thing that you all do and Gilliland, so we’ll talk about that throughout the podcast. But if you can, maybe just give us a little background, Amy, and what’s made you the woman you are today. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I started off my own career in finance and investment banking at Citi Group. I actually started my career on, the same week as 09:11. So talk about your upbringing, in your career, the two towers, crumble in front of me. So that was a very, very challenging, obviously, view to have as a, you know, off your career. But I was also the beginning of me falling in love with the financial industry. I’ve, first and foremost, always myself a lover of the industry of investments finance. But while I was in investment bank gave, I found I really love talking about corporate banking and, you know, M and A and mergers, you know, you know, P and L statements as much as I like working with specific individuals, individuals around their wealth and around their financial needs. So I went to business school, at Duke University, and I it was recruited by Goldman Sachs. Went through about twenty five rounds of interviews with them, did my internship there. And got a job in their private wealth management division in New York where their minimum account size was about ten million dollars. And this is when I was twenty six years old, knew Speaker Brett Gilliland: no one that even had a million dollars Speaker Amy Parvaneh: letter along that level. Wow. But one thing I did know was that I needed to succeed in that career because it was just such a amazing opportunity for me I was willing to do cup of noodles a mindset and just hustle, because I felt like it was kinda like, it’s like, I felt like I didn’t belong there, frankly, because I was, like, that was, like, a lot of like Parvaneh, you know, Yale. It grew up with a lot of wealth, and I was, like, well, don’t have any of that. So that really was a great thing for me because I almost made me want to outshine everyone else. And so I was there at Goldman for about five and a half years there. While I was there, I broke a lot of records, as far as, you know, how fast I brought in clients, the type of clients I got front of. And I just fell in love with, like, the the finding of Speaker Brett Gilliland: the Sure. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Like the finding the sourcing it, finding who’s may just made well. How do I get in front of them? What do say to them. And they told me this is what you’re supposed to say. This is the script. And I was like, if I say that within a year, I’m gonna get laid off. It’s not really gonna work for me. So I really also embraced, honing in on your own language, what you could feel really comfortable saying, within the purview of a larger organization. So I I really enjoyed that. And I all along while I was at Goldman, I was like, I wanna be a business owner. You know, even though I know I’m like owning a book here, I don’t feel like I will ever have that level of, you know, zero ceiling that a business owner has, where it’s like, I if I work hard, I literally will, like, it’s like one for Gilliland so I left to start my own business just found that I was expecting my own, my first baby. And so as you know, that’s horrible timing. Went to join another large, established company that was Pymco, and at Pymco, it opened up my eyes to the entire world of RIA’s. I went from a warehouse world to RIA’s. At pimco, my job was to pretty myself to RIA’s, be a consultant to them around Pymco strategies, but Speaker Brett Gilliland: Sure. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Knowing me, I wasn’t there passionate about talking about fake income as much as I was about, like, what is this? Where am I? Like, how is this three man shop managing five hundred million dollars? It seemed crazy to me that they would be wearing so many different hats. So in two thousand fourteen, even though I was expect like, I had my second child, I was like, this is it. I’m starting my business. Moved from New York to California, even Pymco, I was in the New York office. And, I basically started select advisers Institute. And my first, take on, you know, every business has different chapter. My first take on it was just to go help RIA sell. Teaching them how to go prospect. And then I would say, okay, when you go to this meeting, like, you know, over the next two weeks, do this, this, and this. So I would be their coach. And they would come back and not have done a lot of those things. So I realized pretty early on, I needed to actually do the work for them too, do the marketing work, take that on, So long story short short since two thousand fourteen, I basically built the infrastructure needed to be a replacement for an entire marketing division, that, you know, a, a Pymco or a Goldman or a Vanguard has. Like, you know, all the design all that those people, you know, one man or five man or twenty man shop, can’t typically focus on those or or bring those in house. So we do a lot of that as an outsource. Speaker Brett Gilliland: A niche in the financial services market only. Right? That’s that’s all you work with. The financial advisors? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Absolutely. Ninety percent of our clients are RIA’s ten percent in the Wire House world, we do coaching for them. But, yeah, only financial advisors. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So what we know that from a lens of what you work with and and how you do that there’s obviously more people than just financial advisors and listen to this. There are a lot of financial advisors that listen. But, but let’s so let’s have that discussion today really around, kind of the way I would look at it is how do you how do you promote creativity? Right? I think a lot of people, whether you’re an attorney less than this or a financial advisor accountant, whatever it may be, we wanna be creative. Right? We have creative minds, but we may not have the team to do it. And let’s say they haven’t met you yet. They haven’t hired you and you your firm. How do you promote creativity in your world, and and time to promote creativity? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Yeah. That that’s part of the reason I actually stopped being a financial advisor myself is because I feel like my right brain, the creative side is a lot more powerful than my left brain. So I think the first thing is everyone should admit to themselves which side am I on? Am I more creative or am I more the analytical, the numbers per and where people get into trouble is where they are the the numbers person. They they’re very good at the money management. And the actual, you know, of leadership skills, but they want to somehow also do the creative side. Right? They wanna, like, get on to social media, for example, but social media isn’t all about, like, uploading your latest q three reports and portal, you know, your your latest, you know, analysis on what’s going on in the markets and having a line out the door. It requires creativity, being raw, being Gilliland so if if you’re able to figure out that you’re not a creative and outsource that to someone who will be creative for you and not get in the way within the compliance fair boundaries, I think that’s the most important is, marketing does require a lot of creativity and thinking outside the box. And financial folks, a lot of times, they have to think inside the box. So you know, it it I think then you you have a really good equation. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. What do you see in most businesses are doing to fail in social media and what they doing to succeed in social media? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: The only thing I’ve seen that works on social media has been literally, branding the human within, you know, within the within the elements of, a firm as well as really, you know, providing value that could be shareable. You know, you look at LinkedIn, some of the things that are like, ten thousand likes and seven thousand reshares. They’re really going, you know, out of their way to create things that are really giving it away. Right? Giving away a lot of content. And I wanna share them. You know, other people wanna share to them. Or you talk about you as a human being, you know, kinda like you said, you might you saw my post about me revealing my actual name or talking about my vulnerabilities, the more vulnerable you could become, the more people could feel close to you without having met you yet. So those are the really the the only ways that I’ve seen really work on social media. The folks that are not, unfortunately, it’s they they know it too. They’re not like they’re they’re not blind to it, but they’re not willing to take that risk. They and I call it a risk because it is a risk. You’re really putting yourself out there. They are not willing to even have, like, a little typo or a little, like, you know, misspelling, but those are the little things that actually make you human and they make it look, you know, like you’re a human being too. And those folks, you’re just not gonna get the views or the, you know, any anything out of this. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Well, it’s funny you say that. So I I hundred percent believe in that as Gilliland the the transparency, the vulnerability that we have to have, I think, as as leaders, as as advisors, when with our clients, but also on that social media front. I I’ve been very open with my struggles with anxiety throughout my life and to produce countless videos on how I’ve overcome it, how important it is to me, the meditation, the journaling, all these different things that I’ve done, And I noticed in my research for you, you you struggled that as well. Right? And I think so immediately when I read that, I’m like, okay, there’s a connection right there. Right? We both have shared even though you don’t know that about me, I know that about you, is there’s an immediate connection there that allows for us to connect on a deeper level that maybe I wouldn’t know if you just put out what happened in, you know, q two of the stock market. Right? Is so I’m just validating. So So talk about that. You were you shared that. You have intense anxiety you shared. I’ve had it as well. Still have it. How do you overcome that? And how are you how have you made that your friend? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. And I think you’re talking about my latest post that I wrote recently that I think there are whole societies. So, like, especially the younger generation, they’re so worried about anxiety. They think anxiety is like the biggest culprit that could, you know, disable them and they run from a lot of anxiety, like, you know, the whole term anxiety, a panic attack where I had an anxiety attack. Right. And I found that I used to, you know, run away from it or let it weaken me. But now, you know, as you age, you you learned coping mechanisms, and it’s not even a coping mechanism. I actually embrace it. It’s like stage fright. Someone once told me if you don’t have stage fright, you’re not gonna do well on stage. Well, I I embrace it because I think, that level of anxiety is just fear inside you to keep going and and do better. And it’s been, that basically the fuel for me to, to embrace and be like, what am I what am I worried about? You know, I’m worried about not getting clients, but let me go get more clients right now. Helped me. And, you know, and I think just being able to, like, extra I exercise a lot. I’m really into fitness. And I like to do those alone I like to run alone, that allows me to, like, just meditate, you know, think. I don’t wanna turn that into another competition. You know, people are like, will you run marathons? I’m like, no. I don’t need any more competition in my life as a business owner. We’re competing all day long. So Yep. But that’s been really helpful to me. And, you know, just like re re living the, I guess, reigniting the anxiety into a good thing. Been really great. My Speaker Brett Gilliland: I’ve I’ve found I’ve found too for me. It’s, if I talk trash to it, like, if I’m getting anxious about some thing. It’s like, alright, man. Like, I know what you’re doing here. I’ve seen this movie before. I know the end. I’m gonna be fine. Like, you know, I kinda talked to it. And then I immediately try to redirect my mind into something positive and something I’m excited for. Like, even if it’s travel anxiety, getting on a plane and traveling and doing all that stuff. I found last few years that that if if I embrace it, yes, it’s there. I see it. I feel you I hear you. You’re on my left shoulder here talking to me, but now, like, kinda flip that thing off and come over here and talk to the right shoulder, and and try to give that one power. And I’ve also read that the brain doesn’t know the difference between excitement and anxiousness. Right? The wavelengths are the same between the two things. If you actually put it under, you know, whatever they put it under some imaging center, the brain is the same for excitement as it is for anxiety. And so now it’s trying to trick your body into understanding, hey, maybe it’s not as anxious as it is. I’m really excited about this. I’m really excited about getting to go So when you hear me say that, what comes to mind for you? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. I mean, that I think is is critical. Like, you know, I know it sounds, weird, but sometimes I tell myself if I was to have a glass of wine right now, this Problem still exists. Right? It’s all mental. Right? And that’s actually another thing is, like, you know, reducing I feel like our society is, like, fueled drugs, alcohol. We’re trying to let this go, but why not face it and see, like, can I turn this into a positive thing? Can I, you know, can I turn this, like, anxious? So I, like, you know, I wanna I wanna bottle up my energy and be able to use it in a positive way. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. So what what have you had in your career that maybe has held you back? Maybe it’s anxiety. Maybe it’s something different. But do you have anything that’s really kinda held you back for a little bit? But then you broke through it and your comfort zone got a lot bigger. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. That’s a great question. So my comfort zone, yeah, I always, like, was worried about, you know, not not being good enough you know, because a lot of times you look at businesses and they’re either funded by someone else or they are, you know, they’ve got They’ve got all the right recipes, you know, and I always feel like I, you know, I don’t like to promote myself or not for, you know, nothing. Right? Or I’m not in an old boys club to, you know, to be networking and things like that. So I found believe it or not, Brad, that the number one thing that’s helped me, and it helped me at Goldman, it helped me at Pymco, and it’s obviously helped me with what I do. It’s like, the good old fashioned be the one that actually puts in the work, right, puts in the real work So I’m the one, like, on Saturdays. Like, my my kids are, you know, I have classes and things like, I’m working every single Saturday. Like, from eight till 3PM, I’m working. I’m logging that time in. And when that pays off, every single time that reduces my my worry that I’m gonna be behind, because I know I’m out out working you know, anyone that I’m worried about. So I think that that ability to rely on your work ethic and your ability to think outside the box. And the other thing is my brain. I feel like my brain always gives me great ideas, and I know that’s all like crazy. But, like, even during COVID, I was like, holy crap. What are we gonna who’s gonna wanna coach right now? You know, during this crisis. And, like, ideas came to, wait, what about this? And, like, I feel like that’s always been really there for me that survivalist, like, mine said, that you need as a business owner to pivot and not go down that same. So my whether you call it my brain or a calling, like, I keep getting, like, ideas. That I rely on because that’s always helped me, you know, think about new ways to improve my career. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So how do you how do you work with those ideas? Like, I so I’m a idea person as well. There’s constantly things rolling through my mind. But what what do you do with those ideas? You have a spot in your phone? Do you have a journal? Like, what do you do with them? And then do you test them out to make sure they’d work before you kinda go live with any of those? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Well, when you’re really good at marketing, that’s actually a problem because you could literally Yeah. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Didn’t turn off. Yeah. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Well, no. You could also make any business kind of work out. Like, I always think my biggest problem right now is I don’t have time because I have like five other business ideas that, like, you know, I could, like, kick off it. Like, I could start a kid’s school program. I’m really I think there’s so much of a need right now for different types of schooling. Like, teaching kids etiquette, teaching kids leadership public speaking. If I had the time, I would I would build it. So what I do is I do have, like, on my to do list. We used to use this program called to do is for project management. Now we all moved to Asana, which I really love. But I have I have like a personal section and it’s, like, called ideas. And I just, like, write it, you know, I just write it down when it’s, like, outside the really out there. But a lot of times when it’s like business ideas, a lot of times I just test it out with clients. I say like, oh, we we also offer this. We do offer this. If you’re gonna come, I do that. So I I’m also a really big fan of, you know, the Kevin Cosner movie, field of dreams that says Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh yeah. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: You build it, they will come. I believe the opposite. If they come, you will make it. Is, like, it’s always a philosophy. So I always, like, kinda pitch the idea softly to clients as they we do this. Just to see if because as long as I know we could do this. Right? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: And then if there’s demand, I build it. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. So you kinda build it for you build it second after you see there’s a manned. And, yeah, I I I watched the Richard Branson on Master Class or whatever it was, and he talked about, you know, he started an airline, he started a magazine, all these things. He started out of frustration of another process. Right? He was standing in line. It took forever, bag, you know, to pay money for his bag, all this stuff. He’s like, you know what? I’ll fix this. I’m just gonna start my own airline. So it’s kinda what I’m hearing from you is that somebody needs it, somebody desires it, and then you don’t get stuck by the old paralysis by analysis is what I’m hearing. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: No. I don’t. In fact, that’s the problem. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I love that. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Like, running with too many ideas and if I had the time because I know SEO really well, I know blog writing skills, I know how to promote a social media. I could easily get that up and running. But right now, I have enough on my play doing that for my existing client. So Yeah. I feel like not only do I have selected advisors, but I have like, you know, twenty at a time clients that we’re promoting, helping the market. So it’s more than enough. Yeah. Exactly. And our clients are really like they’re different than financial advisors because they’re a lot hands on, and it’s almost like I’m part of their team, basically. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yep. That’s awesome. So when you hear that though, I talked about paralysis by analysis. Are you seeing that out in the marketplace and what advice would you have for that man or woman listening right now? How to overcome that because I’ve seen it and it’s hard to just tell us me, hey, don’t worry about it, man. Just just go do what, you know, the rest of us do and just go build it as you go and and it’s they don’t don’t work that way. So how do you help them with that? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Well, that happens all the time, you know, with the paralysis, analysis by over analysis. In fact, I I have a test on my, on my website that I actually created literally to help people, like, make a decision really quickly. Which I could send you. But I think it it all boils down to that word that we use, which is risk. Right? A firm, let’s say, has been in business for thirty, forty, fifty years. They’ve built their client base, and they did it by word-of-mouth, building this great reputation. Now, if it’s not in here, it comes Amy and telling them to, like, let’s start posting on social media. And they’re like, well, we haven’t needed this before, and now we could potentially this is the part that they’re worried about. We could potentially risk our reputation. And yeah, I agree. Your reputation is all you have to go for it. So I’ve believe it or not, I’ve stopped basically pushing so hard. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s another thing you you learn as you Speaker Amy Parvaneh: grow, the more mature you I’ve stopped pushing it and I just do it for my social media. I go crazy with social media. I test on my account So I could show them like, look, I did this. I shared my full name. I shared my vulnerabilities, and it worked. Now, you could choose if you wanna do that to kinda like painting, you know, like, you could keep your room clean and let them make their room a mess and see which one they choose they like more. I’d like to talk to your blue in the face, telling people to do social media. And then if it really doesn’t work, because so much if it out of your control, then you’re left with, you know, an embarrassment. So I just take them to the water and I let them drink if they want it. I’ll build out their platform. I’ll make it look as ready to go. I’ll write them their message. The firms and the clients that do really well are the ones that are like, you’re the expert. I mean, you just go wild. Go do what you want. Just run it by compliance, and those are the ones that get the traction, get the get the views, get the followings, and, you know, they also understand it’s a long term game. Right? Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Just like I wouldn’t ask a financial advisor what’s been your performance over the past year? You know, marketing is the same. You’re building equity. You’re building, you know, something that will pay dividends for years. Is the way I look at marketing. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And I think so many people too, they wanna see that immediate thing. Well, Brett, I’ve been I’ve been doing this posting thing for, like, two months. I’m like, Dude, congrats. I’ve been doing this podcast for, you know, six and a half years. Like, it doesn’t happen overnight. It’s it’s gotta be consistent. You gotta show up. Gotta do the work. And, and and it is what it is. And you fail along the way. You succeed along the way, but you gotta take action. You gotta do it. And so this morning I was with, I don’t know, forty five or fifty high school kids, and it was fun because I get to speak to them and and, you know, you bring out this energy they have at seventeen, eighteen years Gilliland and it and, you know, they ask questions that makes you dust off the old, you know, folders and files of things you did when you’re in your twenties and and now here I am in my mid forties. And and so it was a good use of time this morning, but it it made me think about a question I wanted to ask for you today is advice for yourself. That was something they asked me a lot of. What advice would you give yourself of the seventeen, eighteen year old or the twenty two year old, Brett? What advice would there be? And and, you know, I kinda came up with my three things. But the first one was just relax dude. It’s gonna be okay. Right? Yeah. And then I gave him three other things. But what advice would Amy have, for that, you know, twenty, twenty five year old, Amy, that maybe needing some advice at this moment. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Well, one of the things when I was you know, starting out as a financial advisor, and I see this happening with a lot of the younger advisors too. Is this like you know, imposter syndrome, do I belong here? Is this sixty year old guy gonna be giving me his money? I think that’s a very common thing that people who are young in their, you know, I still, like, I can’t believe I’ve even said, like, that I feel I I I feel like not that old, but Right. But I I feel it’s weird, like, talking to your all younger self. But, yeah, I mean, I feel like if you don’t have the gray hair, if you if you don’t have the experience, you’re going to feel, you know, kind of, like you’re missing something. And one of the things I did was, I was not, finance, as I mentioned, was not my expertise. Like, I could talk all day long about who just sold their business. You asked me how the, you know, the what the Fed did that day or interest rates or the FX markets and I would freeze. That was my Achilles heel, one of them that I felt like, oh, you know, like, I I would dread it. And I think one of the things I would teach I would tell myself, looking back, is work on those technical skills that you feel you’re low on because the younger you are, the better you better be those areas to make up for that, lack of experience. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: You know, a sixteen year old guy would take a guy in his twenties really seriously, if he was talking with confidence about the markets, even if he wasn’t there during all the historical, you know, crises and, you know, happenings in the market. The other thing is I I tried too hard, and I think I wrote about this too in some of my posts. I tried too hard to fit in, you know, to be, like, you know, to do the small talk, play golf. And I felt like those were, like, I needed to do those, but you don’t need to do those. Right? Like, try to outshine and other other places, in order to, you know, to really succeed. And, yeah, I think the other thing I would have done is you know, started even building my business even sooner. You know, that would be another thing is, like, if you feel you’re good at selling, and marketing yourself and personal branding, go work for yourself because otherwise you’re just really, you know, kind of making someone else successful, you know, like they say, they’ll work eighty five hours, then work forty hours for someone else. Yeah. So, yeah, But only if you know down in your core that you’re great at selling and marketing yourself because those are the two things you really need in order to be a good business owner. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. It’s funny you say that. So another one of the questions today that that, and they were very clear. They said you know, this has nothing to do with your personal life. What are you most proud of? But professionally, they said, what are you most proud of? And, you know, I talked about our firm and you know, the culture and all that stuff. But then it it also hit me too. I’m like, you know, I have never worked for somebody. I I’ve never had a quote quote job. I I started right out of college and, you know, I get this diploma and I go work a hundred percent commission, you know, and thank god. My Fiance, now wife at the time, and wife now, but fiance at the time, you know, believed in me supported me. My parents didn’t they weren’t like We did what? We paid for your college, and now you’re gonna go work a hundred percent commission. You full. Right? Like, that wasn’t there, but I’ve never I’ve never got a paycheck. I’ve had earn every dollar that I’ve made, and and I’m proud of that. But I think it does take that unique person because I’ve also had people that now in our forties are like, you know, I wish I would have done something like that when I was in my twenties. But, you know, now they’re like, I got a house. I got two or three kids. It’s hard to go do that. Right? But I think sooner or later, they’ve gotta take that step and and be willing to fail. And I think once that passion and that desire, when we started visionary wealth advisors, when I left my previous firm, we had three kids. My wife was pregnant with our fourth. We had just built a home. But I wanted it. Right? I was hungry and I wanted to go out and build this thing and and and we were able to do it and we pulled it off. But I think sometimes you just gotta believe and you just gotta go take action. Thoughts on that? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Absolutely. I mean, that goes back again to, that that’s why I said if you’re good at but you probably knew one thing that you’re good at building building a story, building a thing, you know, building a vision. That’s probably why, you know, you’re probably successful at it. Same with me. I knew I was I I broke every stereotype, getting the job at Citi Gilliland investment banking. Yep. You know, built one, block in me knowing building my confidence, then at Gilliland, then I knew so I knew, you know, my career was showing me I’m good at building things. Right? So I think that’s one of the things I’m really proud of is that I’ve been able to break all stereotypes you know, coming to the US as an immigrant and getting a job that only Parvaneh and Yale kids were getting, you know, that job at City Group, I had an investment banking. That was the only one that went to I went to undergrad at Stonybrook, which is like a name. No. You probably may have not ever heard of it. That was my undergrad. Every other kid was like Ivy League. So Right. That was stereotype break because I didn’t speak English until I was twelve years old. So, like, to get that Parvaneh then to, literally pull the band aid out of Pymco, and I was getting a really nice paycheck there. And even then, I I also got a few other job offers, and they were double that even, but I still gave those up to start select advisors. That’s what I’m really proud of is like what I’ve built. And I I I think it’s really important to also be proud of something you’ve built a hundred percent on your own. You know, one funded me. It’s a hundred percent self funded. I did go to some investors at the beginning, and they were like, yeah, this isn’t gonna work. And, you know, now it’s too late because I feel like I’ve built it and it’s pretty expensive. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Now they wanna invest in it. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Exactly. So you know, all of that just builds my confidence and I know what I’ve been doing has been right along the way. Speaker Brett Gilliland: So what would I find if I were to follow you around and, follow you with a camera so this would be not to be creepy. Right? But I follow you around to see your habits. Right? And so what would I see kind of the no mis items in Amy’s life day in and day out? No mis items. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: No missed items. Yeah. So like I said, I’m really adamant about my running. Yep. So that’s like my That’s my sanity. One of my sanity is I run even when there’s like a fire here in California. Like nothing stops me from that. That’s my sanctuary. A lot of time thinking about work and doing work, and then it’s kids. You know, I’m a single mom, so I handle my own kids, on my own. So, you know, it’s work, run, and then the kids. And then, you know, my time alone. I really am into, like, music. So I’m all about, like, going to concerts and music fast of all. Very cool. And it’s like my, like, work hard play hard, you know, approach. Because I feel like that’s, like, the only thing that, like, really reignites my energy. I also see a lot of creativity in those places. I see a lot of cool, like graffiti art and, like, the the type of sponsorships of, like, brands with music, and, like, I like to bring some elements of that into the financial world. You’re, like, how do you co brand with a large name or things like that? So that inspires me too. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Well, I get bucket list items. You’re a bucket list person? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: I am. I am. Yeah. Although I feel like I actually wanted to write somewhere that I feel like I’ve pretty much lived most of my bucket list items because I feel like I’ve you know, building select advisors is like one of the biggest things. You know, bucket list is supposed to be something that’s like, kind of almost like impossible to get to. Gilliland I think I have. But I do have one bucket list, which is to stay at the Mandarin and Gilliland Lake like, calm off. That’s, like, it’s, like, sitting there. Ready to go. Yeah. That Speaker Brett Gilliland: one, please. Somebody called it an effort list. Just like, effort. I’m gonna do that. Right? It’s not a bucket list to your point because I was like, I’m just gonna do it. Right? And so I’ve thought about that. I’m like, I like that. I like that way of saying because you’re right. Buck list seems like, This is a pipe dream. This will never happen. But I think if we, you know, have clarity around where we wanna go and and create time in our calendars, we can make those things happen. So just say the effort list. So you have your outside CMO. You’d help with branding. We talked about that referral litics. Tell us a little bit about that, brag about your company Select Advisors Institute. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. So as we said, we basically are one stop shop for Financial firms and teams to do all their marketing. You know, the only three things we don’t do is advertising. I’m not a big fan of paid marketing, you know, Google ads, things like that. I’ve never spent on advertising, and I don’t want clients to feel like they need to. Unless you’re willing to compete with the firms, like, Fisher investments that have a three hundred thousand dollar a week budget. Right? You don’t need to do that. You could do organic marketing. So I’m all about, you know, so we don’t do, advertising. We don’t do any printing, and then we also don’t do any, like, we don’t we’re not event planners, but everything else we’re doing, within select advisors from all the way from, like, I’ve renamed at least a dozen firms. Oh, wow. And then I’ve basically rebranded and built out an entire marketing material Gilliland collateral for about a thousand RIA firms and teams. So helping them with branding, coming up with unique ways of saying who they are. And then from the day to day, you know, posting on social media, writing your blogs, website, maintenance, website coding, all of that. I like it. And every four weeks, like, Yeah. Referraltics is just like an ancillary part of what we do. It’s for firms who have a really nice rolodex of clients, but it really hasn’t come about, who those people know. We actually research and do the analytics on those people. So that that way, instead of the small talk that you have during your quarterly reviews, you could actually say, hey, I noticed you’re on this board, and I noticed someone else went to Stony Brook. Would you mind referring me to that person? So you’re making it easier. I’m basically saying I already know your person. Can you just, like I Speaker Brett Gilliland: know you know him. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. Exactly. Speaker Brett Gilliland: That’s awesome. That’s the step ahead of the step. Right? Last couple of questions here for you, Amy. So, how about you know, in our business and again, whether I think a lot of businesses you’re in sales. Right? I mean, even doctors you gotta sell while your practice is better than next. Right? And so How do you what advice do you have for people that don’t enjoy networking? And they don’t enjoy, you know, going to the cocktail party and shaking hands. Like for me, I know I I just I don’t enjoy that Gilliland so, but what advice do you have for people like me or like others that may not enjoy it, but we know we still gotta go do it sometimes. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: We’re both doing it right now because I don’t enjoy not working either. I don’t enjoy Galas, at all. Like, that’s not how I built any of the purposes, and you don’t saying. So, yeah. So believe it or not, majority of successful business owners are introvert or or, you know, or I guess, social introverts. Right? We we don’t get energy from going to those. In fact, those don’t work, typically. Like, going to gala, like spending the whole night and spending all this money and meeting one person. I like to do what you’re doing, which is broad marketing, like lots of different people. Whether it’s using social media. I do a lot of email blasts, you know, to to, you know, get get email lists, get by email distribution lists, whether, you know, or or have someone like our firm research those names for you, get by CEO list, by RIA list and start, you know, dripping on them. And, and that’s, for me, the most efficient way. I also have a lot of people on my social media team were adding, you know, helping me organize my social media, list. You could you know, you you really if you don’t enjoy the broad, you know, or the networking, that’s it’s actually a good thing. You should but you should start embracing these other ways. More digital basically digital should be your friend. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. And are you finding that that’s the way a lot of people are getting business these days? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Website leads coming through. People, like, you look at some of the firms out there with millions of followers. They are writing blogs, writing books, you know, they’re not out there networking. They’re just people come to them at a certain point. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yeah. I would say it’s like the it’s like the train, the the the the magnets either connect or they don’t connect. Right? They repel each other. And I think if, you know, you have good values, you get good Gilliland you’re doing good work, the the referrals come in. I, you know, I know when I was in my twenties, it was begging people for referrals. I’m like, oh, gives me anxiety even thinking about that. But, yeah, I just I just think that’s, that’s good. It’s good to hear and can firm that it’s it’s not around, you know, networking events and and it’s not the way to build it because I I hundred percent agree. So, kinda last question for you. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: I was just gonna have one more thing. Yeah. So it’s it’s not either networking or nothing. Right? And I feel like that one of the best quotes I heard recently was doing a good job is not a marketing strategy. Like, that’s not, you know, you can’t just rely on that. So you have to have something that’s actively being done. And it’s you don’t need to go network to balance, but at least do something which is more digital. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yep. I agree. So how many of the fears you’ve put in your mind over your career? It’s one of my favorite questions to ask. So how many of the fears you’ve put in your mind over your career have actually blown up to the magnitude you put them in your mind to be? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Zero. You’re right. I mean, yeah, the bag I I still have the bag lady syndrome worry, you know, that you’re gonna, like, end up being homeless. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Right. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: And, you know, it’s been a good thing, right, the big fear that’s is that anxiety But, but, I mean, when you hear the stats of, like, well, I can’t you probably know this better than I do that, like, sixty percent of the US is living paycheck to paycheck. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yeah. Crazy. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Or they don’t have more than, like, a hundred thousand dollars in retirement. You and I could start being like, we’re like, what’s wrong? Like, why are we thinking this way? You know? What what are they thinking that I’m not thinking? So I think we’re a little bit too worried about things, the worst case scenario. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Yep. Yep. I agree. So I said last question might lie. This is last question. You can see here this sticker if you’re watching, future greater than your past. So our our firm’s, mission is to help people achieve a future greater than their past. Again, doesn’t mean people have a bad past, but I think everybody wants a better future. So when you hear that, kinda what’s that what’s that feeling it gives you to help you achieve a future greater than past? Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Yeah. I mean, I feel like I’m, right now, select advisors at one of the best places they possibly be. We have an amazing team in house outsource that I’ve also sourced and found. Yeah. Love the best talent I could think of. And, we basically have our recipe down, how we write what we think. So it’s that’s what I’m excited about. It’s like, you know, now it’s no longer like each time we’re like, oh my gosh, what where do we start here? It’s every single time we come to a client with even more and more resources and and capabilities and tools. And that’s what makes me really excited. It’s like it it’s like almost like going to a college that’s gonna basically be paying for itself down the line for for any client that joins us. So that’s what I’m really excited about. It’s like knowing that that’s something that they’re, you know, that I’m able to give to my clients. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Awesome. I love it. Well, Amy, working on listeners find more of you. Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Oh, on our website, select dash advisers dot com, plural, or go to amy’s linkedin dot com. And that’s Speaker Brett Gilliland: Amy’s linkedin dot com. Yeah. It’s that’s the It’s a nice and easy one right there. You got lucky on that one, Speaker Amy Parvaneh: Right. You should get that. Go to, go to GoDaddy and see if Brett’s linkedin dot com as it will. Speaker Brett Gilliland: Oh, nice. I like it. I’ll have to check there. So there’s we could have had this whole podcast. Just be that. You say that. We cut it and we’re done. Just gotta go daddy and Speaker Amy Parvaneh: find it. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Speaker Brett Gilliland: I like it. I love it. Awesome. We will put all this in the show notes and send people your way, Amy. It’s been awesome having you and, appreciate your time on this of success.

43 min