Cardon Ellis and Michael take a deep dive into the often misunderstood place of the early Christian creeds especially the Nicene Creed within Mormon thought and broader Christianity.The conversation begins with Michael making it clear that "the Creeds were not an abomination," immediately challenging a common LDS perspective. Cardon Ellis admits to expecting this take and brings up the notion that Greco-Roman philosophy heavily influenced Christian creeds, which altered original Christian beliefs about the nature of God. He expresses concern over religious councils "voting on" doctrine such as the Trinity, seeing this as a departure from what early Christians actually believed.