The Deeper Pulse with Candice Schutter

One year ago, Monica Welty shared her story with TDP listeners on the pod - see Ep.29 Grief & Gratitude - and now she’s back for another heart-to-heart about moving on after loss. Candice opens the episode with a commentary on spiritual bypassing, and then Monica joins her to share recent insights she’s been having in her own process of cult recovery. Monica spent a decade training at ‘the Org’ in addition to other new age wellness circles, all of which emphasize radical body awareness, the law of attraction, and magical thinking. She describes how her grief was compounded by new age indoctrination when she tragically lost her newborn son, her fertility, and her marriage; and how despite the initial benefits, her new age worldview came crashing down. Monica also opens up about how childhood conditioning combined with a culturally-absorbed pressure to spiritually bypass contributed to denial surrounding her husband’s ongoing infidelities, and Candice chimes in with her own personal reckoning with cult of one relational dynamics. Candice shares how she has restored agency when it comes to trusting her instincts on the other side of her culty experiences; and then together she and Monica discuss the dangers of the new age there-are-no-victims mindset, how it’s shaped by privilege, and why it’s so important to seek out spaces where we can show up authentically. This conversation a two-parter; the second half rolls out over on Patreon later this week when Monica & Candice pick up where they left of with a discussion on what it's like to find meaning on the other side of new age disillusionment.

Referenced In This Episode:

• Spiritual Bypassing - Robert Augustus Masters
• Tone Policing & Privilege - Everyday Feminism
• Bonus Episode on Patreon - drops Friday, April 7th

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

CW: This episode contains descriptions of child abuse and reference to addition, mental illness, and suicide. Please listen with care.

In December of last year, I released my conversation with Trina Studebaker who shared about the fourteen years she and her family spent an abusive religious cult (see episode #42). In addition to offering a refreshingly-honest peek into her own personal journey, Trina spoke about her regrets as a mother; how due to cultic indoctrination, she’d been unable to protect her children from the wrath of the cult's fundamentalist rhetoric and the heavy hand of their father who had himself been raised in the group. Trina wept as she described the terror that had been unleashed on her eldest child, Christian. Not long after #42 dropped, Christian requested the opportunity to offer his own honest-yet-hopeful perspective, and it’s an honor to share his story with you today. His is a story that is difficult to hear, but remarkably inspiring. Christian speaks candidly about what it was like living in a home where he was continually beaten and gaslit around the helpless rage he experienced as a result of ongoing abuse. He shares how he spent the first half of his life internalizing the messages he received at home and at school and how he escaped the pain through addiction before turning a corner through 12-step recovery and trauma-informed therapy. Christian has since healed his relationship with his father and reclaimed his right to love, compassion, and opportunities that were once unimaginable. Listen in on his uncommon journey from solitary confinement as a ten-year old to the Graduate in Architecture program at MIT. Christian bravely reminds us that it's possible to heal, and to build a bridge from resilience to recovery.

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

At age sixteen, Lindsay Spyker woke in the middle of the night to two strangers hovering over her bed and by order of her parents, she was transported to Cross Creek - a youth ‘rehabilitation’ center in La Verkin, Utah where she would spend the next two years of her life. Today, she shares her harrowing experience with us. The 'troubled teen' industry is a multi-billion dollar money machine that preys on parental anxiety and uses deceptive marketing tactics to sell a high-dollar dogmatic approach to ‘treatment’ wherein children are separated from their families and indoctrinated to believe that they are flawed and in need of fixing. Each year, countless youth are sent to therapeutic boarding schools, youth rehab centers, and conversion camps, many of which are led by untrained staff and special interests groups. There have been tens of thousands of reports of abuse and psychological coercion in these environments spanning many decades; and yet, they continue to operate across the US and abroad. Breaking Code Silence - now known as Unsilenced - has been shining a spotlight on survivor stories since 2014, and Lindsay is here today to share her experience with us and to advocate for accountability and widespread legislative change. She shares what it was like for her as a ‘uncontrollable’ child as well as the terror of being sent away as a teen. She offers a peek behind the curtain at Cross Creek and shares openly about the abuse she witnessed and suffered there. Today’s episode is bid for collective activism on behalf of children everywhere and a cautionary tale reminding us all (parents especially) that youth rehab facilities aren’t always what the shiny brochures promise them to be.

Referenced in this episode:

• Spotlight on Ventura School (article per intro)
• Facts About The Troubled Teen Industry
• Breaking Code Silence
• Unsilenced.org
• National Youth Rights Association
• WWASP Survivors
• This Is Paris (documentary) 
• Paris: The Memoir (book)

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

Stacy Parish is this week’s guest on the pod. Stacy is an artist, and the creator and host of the Full Spirals podcast. In this wholehearted convo, she & Candice discuss how Stacy’s experiences in early childhood shaped her passion for creative expression as both voice and vehicle for healing. Stacy repressed memories of the early childhood trauma that she experienced; and in her thirties, an ongoing battle with addiction required she unearth them in order to heal. She was gaslit by her immediate family, which was an experience that left an indelible mark. In this conversation, Stacy speaks to why she feels it’s so crucial (and difficult at times) to trust ourselves. Stacy also spent time in ‘the Org’ and she explains why, despite the remarkable benefits of the practice, her experiences elsewhere kept her at a healthy distance from the inner circle. From there, the conversation centers around the two decades that Stacy spent in 12-step recovery communities. She explains what worked about it, what didn't, and why she made the difficult choice to walk away two years ago. The two discuss everyday cult dynamics that show up in these communities, including: commitment expectations, boundary violations, and bounded choice... just to name a few. The 'cult of personality' is also explored, as well as some of the harmful consequences that can result when this power is abused and the cycle of pain is perpetuated by people who refuse to look outside of group dogma for answers. CW: This episode includes reference to addiction and childhood sexual abuse. It may be triggering to trauma survivors, those in 12 step recovery programs, or anyone who has experience in high-demand groups or emotionally coercive relationships. Please listen with care.

Stacy Parish has a BS degree in art education from Minnesota State University, Mankato and spent 11 years in broadcasting — as a professional disc jockey, voice talent and copywriter. She has been professionally involved in education and communication for almost  years.  A born storyteller, her popular podcast “Full Spirals” brings together two of her passions: using her voice as a vehicle for change and promoting the arts as tools for healing. A working local artist, she is also employed in the paint and sip industry as an artist, and her original paintings have been taught to tens of thousands of people nationwide.

fullspirals.com | @boomstacy

Referenced in this episode:

• Full Spirals Podcast
• Interview w/ Candice on Full Spirals Podcast
• Writing Down The Bones: Freeing The Writer Within, by Natalie Goldberg 
• Untamed, by Glennon Doyle
• The 13th Step, a film by Monica Richardson

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

Candice returns with the second half of her convo with new friends of the podcast and co-founders of the #igotout movement, Lisa & Gerette. If you missed part one, circle back because the conversation picks up where it left off. Gerette shares what a relief it is 'being human’ after 18 years spent striving to perfect herself in a therapy-based cult. Lisa acknowledges activists who are blowing the whistle on her very first guru, who has since rebranded himself. Candice wonders aloud at how so many wellness influencers rely on spiritual lineages that reinforce oppressive ideologies, referencing her own recently discovered blindspots. Gerette inspires a discussion about healthy leadership - what is it and how do we create it? Then Lisa emphasizes the importance of deconstructing hierarchies, sharing personally about the learning curve she has faced as the #igotout content curator. She reads aloud from Geoffrey Wallace’s book - A Voice From Inside - which inspires a lively dialogue about the power of creativity and critical thinking. Candice shares how she was discouraged from asking questions in new age wellness circles, and Gerette voices an encouraging open-invitation to us all. The three discuss why collaboration and organic growth is so critical to the reinvention of leadership; then, Lisa speaks in depth about anonymous activism, providing a helpful template for easing our way into cult recovery spaces. The episode wraps with a peek into the collaborative future of the igotout movement.

Gerette & Lisa are co-founders of igotout.org, which serves as a platform for the voices of the isolated, silenced, and invisible…and as a hub and amplifier for ex-cult related advocacy. The hashtag, #igotout, connects survivors of all kinds of power-over abuse and creates a web of support and access to resources for healing and community. 

Referenced In This Episode:

• Exposing Guru Maharaji activist’s accounts - @wasapremie and @premrawatcult on instagram
•  A Voice from Inside: Notes on Religious Trauma in a Captive Organization, by Geoffrey Wallis
• The Carbon Almanac with Seth Godin
• The Chaos Machine: The Inside Story of How Social Media Rewired Our Minds and Our World, by Max Fisher
• Cover Story - New York Magazine (podcast series)
• Tears of Eden 
• Story Slam Participation Form
• Story Slam Fundraiser
• #IGOTOUT - The Musical Kickstarter
• Non-profit consultants:  Lindsay J.K. Nichols & Nancy Mosher

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

The ‘cult’ure series continues with a a two-part conversation with the co-founders of igotout.org. In Part 1, Candice shares how #igotout was a saving grace when she first released her story publicly. Lisa & Gerette join her to share about the origins of the movement, speaking about the hashtag’s conception and why it is so important for cult survivors to have safe spaces to share their stories. Gerette makes a distinction between recognizing and ‘reckoning with' the harm we experience, and Lisa speaks to why anonymous activism is something she continually champions. Candice shares how the idealism that hooked her is also what enabled her to get out, and Lisa expands upon this with a potent declaration that bears repeating. The three discuss how involvement in cult communities and abusive relationships very often results in arrested development; how we stop thinking critically and our fears are leveraged and used against us. Carlos Castaneda’s influence is explored through a peek into Lisa’s childhood and family history, and she shares intimately how growing up in the hippie movement primed her for entry into a cult at age 19. And a fascinating dialogue about death leads Gerette toward a personal ah-ha around how grief shaped her exit from a a therapy-based cult. The episode wraps with a sneak peek at part two, which drops next week. 

Gerette Buglion, co-founder of igotout.org, is a spokesperson for the #igotout movement, co-manages day to day operations and communications while also providing her expertise in Cult Recovery and Education. Gerette is creator and facilitator of Writing to Reckon - and offers free classes for people to write their #igotout statement in a supportive environment. Gerette’s educational memoir, An Everyday Cult was published in May 2021.

Lisa co-founded igotout.org as an anonymous cult-survivor activist with the intention of creating a space for victims of high control environments to safely share their stories...in whichever way supports their healing. Lisa co-manages communications and is the main point of contact for messaging on the igotout social media platforms. She is a generator of community building initiatives within the #igotout space.

Referenced In This Episode:

• An Everyday Cult, by Gerette Buglion
• HBO’s The Vow
• Holy Hell: a film by Will Allen
• The Sorcerer’s Apprentice: My Life with Carlos Castaneda by Amy Wallace
• I'm Perfect, You're Doomed: Tales from a Jehovah's Witness Upbringing, by Kyria Abrahams
• The Denial of Death, by Ernest Becker
• DeathCafe.com

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

In the final episode before a self-care break, Candice is thrilled to sit down with Kathleen Oh, a fellow writer, coach, and new-age wellness survivor. Kathleen lays the foundation for her cult-like experiences, sharing how she was born into high-control environments. She opens up about how the resulting black&white thinking shaped her choices at home as a young mother, and as in her work as a coach. Kathleen expresses her regret and speaks openly about how she is still coming to terms with the ways in which she spread misinformation and unknowingly used coercive sales tactics. She and Candice trade stories about the love&light ‘cult’ures they occupied, underscoring just how much the lies they learned - and helped to perpetuate through their work - are really just a byproduct of capitalist-cult, supremacist self-help rhetoric. Kathleen breaks down the real differences between therapy and coaching and shares how she learned (the hard way) what can happen when coaches are not, in fact, trauma-informed. Candice shares about the boss-babe business training she invested in, and Kathleen has an even more humbling story to share when it comes to predatory sales practices. The episode wraps with a variety of resources for folks who want to learn more about a small-yet-growing counterculture of coaches who are calling themselves, and one another, ‘out’… with the hope of mitigating the culty and harmful business practices that run rampant in the coaching industry.

Kathleen Oh (she/her) is a Coach, writer, and safe drug use advocate and educator specializing in psychedelic integration. She offers coaching services focusing on the continued care and well-being of clients from high-stress, high-performance careers as the center of their work. She practices trauma-informed and integrative, positive psychology, solution-focused coaching and Internal Family Systems Informed approaches informed by an anti-oppressive framework. Kathleen openly practices as a learner and student of cultic studies. She is continuing to decondition and recover from systems of cultic indoctrination. This combination of skills is uncommon in coaching communities. She has lost close friends and relationships with her community members to controversial conspiracy groups.

ohmyheart.substack.com | coachkathleenoh.com | IG: @therealcoachoh

Referenced In This Episode:

• Lalich Center on Cults & Coercion
• Gerette Buglion, Writing to Reckon
• Maggie Patterson on IG @smallbusiness boss

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

Surprise! This week's Patreon bonus episode is dropping here, too! It's a sample from the Deconstructing Dogma series that's been rolling out over on Patreon. We're sharing it publicly because this chat is timely; right on the heels of a pivotal convo with Yamuna Benedict - where so many of the Org's unspoken rules of engagement were broken (sorry, not sorry). Tracy & Candice unpack three major no-no’s at the Org - gossiping, complaining, and ‘creating drama.' They discuss how often helpful signposts for self-awareness were misunderstood and misused, often resulting in silence and complacency. Tracy shares how hypervigilance around self-expression is antithetical to ‘see something, say something’ reminders that we have a responsible to speak up when something ain't right. Candice speaks to the importance of nervous system co-regulation and points toward a painful truth; that social guidelines are too often about reinforcing a ‘cult’ure of compliance, obedience, and top-down whitewashed supremacy. Tracy does her best to shed the stigma when it comes to the ‘work-arounds’ we employ to forge connection, and Candice attempts to normalize feelings of guilt or shame that some folks might feel even listening to the podcast. The episode wraps with a critical examination of purity ‘cult’ure and what an ongoing rejection of ‘drama’ really means... and why the cost is just too damn high.

If you enjoyed this episode and want to explore more from the deconstructing dogma series, head over to patreon.com/thedeeperpulse.

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

Yamuna Benedict is back to share Part 2 of her story. Tracy offers a telling reflection to kick things off regarding how Yamuna’s Krishna-cult conditioning may have contributed to long hours at 'the Org.' Yamuna describes the demanding and chaotic work environment, as well as some disturbing details regarding the Org’s discriminatory hiring practices, chronic gaslighting, and overt body shaming. She shares candidly about fielding ongoing sexual harassment claims and explains why she chose not to support a harassment lawsuit against the company early on. Yamuna describes how her codependent connection to the Org’s CEO mimicked her early-in-life relationship with her father, which may explain why she continually shielded him, and the Org's founder, from accountability. She talks candidly about keeping up appearances in order to make sure that no one could see 'behind the curtain.' Candice asks for the backstory surrounding the infamous bathing suit exercise that Tracy described in Ep.34, and the three speak about just how often abuse of power was reframed as an exercise in psychospiritual endurance. Finally, after eight years of silence, Yamuna shares the details around her sudden and painful termination from the Org, the devastation she experienced, as well as how she was regarded by those still ‘in.’ Reflection on the aftermath leads into a fiery discussion about whether or not the ‘the moves’ explored at the Org are proprietary (spoiler: they’re not), and Candice shares why she believes that lifetime membership fees - for any reason - are culty AF. Tracy reveals what her own research has taught her about susceptibility to cult dynamics, and then the episode wraps when Yamuna shares what she’s doing to heal and move her life forward. This episode is jam-packed and it offers a (deep) breath of fresh air for anyone previously or currently involved with ‘the Org’ or any other new age wellness cult.

[CW:  This episode may be triggering to current or former Org members, or anyone who has experienced high demand groups, sexual and/or workplace harassment, or emotionally-coercive relationships. Please listen with care.]

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates. 

According to Hare Krishna tradition, a ‘devadasi’ is a female who devotes herself to a lifetime of service. Upon her birth, this week’s guest was given the name Yamuna Jivana Devi Dasi by the founder of ISKCON, Swami Prabhupada. Yamuna’s parents ran the Berkeley Hare Krishna Temple when she was a child, and she grew up believing that her purpose in life was “to be a servant to the servant to the servant.” She carried this foundational approach to life with her into adulthood, and it has delivered some mixed-bag results. Tracy Stamper (see Ep.34-37) rejoins Candice on the podcast to welcome Yamuna, who was once an ‘Org’ executive team member, trainer liaison, and all-around go-to gal. Yamuna was drawn into the inner circle at 'the Org' in 2010, a pivotal time in the company's growth. True to form, she went ‘all-in’ devoting her devidasi spirit to the company's mission. She worked overtime - underpaid - for five years before being let go with staggering insensitivity (a story she'll share in Part 2). Eight years later, Yamuna is ready to step out from the shadows and break her unspoken vow of silence. Not to “gossip, complain, or create drama” (see Org’s implicit-rule book for thought-terminating cliches on all that) but to liberate herself from a cycle of self abandonment that existed before and after her time at the Org. She hopes that sharing the details of her experience might help her and others to better understand why so many of us are drawn into cultish communities, and also... why we stay put when the red flags are impossible to ignore.

[CW: This episode may be triggering to current or former Org members, and/or anyone who has experienced high demand groups or coercive relationships. Please listen with care.]

Support the show

The stories and opinions shared in this episode are based on personal experience and are not intended to malign any individual, group, or organization.

Join The Deeper Pulse at Patreon for weekly bonus episodes + other exclusive bonus content. Follow The Deeper Pulse on IG @thedeeperpulse + @candiceschutter for more regular updates.