Welcome back to the Gwart Show! We got Round II of the Crypto VC debate with Gwart and Haseeb. Are tokens actually worth anything? Do VCs provide real signal value? What's the right benchmark for success? The conversation gets spicy as they examine Dragonfly's portfolio performance, discuss whether tokens truly capture value, and question if early-stage crypto investments can ever live up to their promises. With occasional moderation from Tarun, this debate exposes the tension between VC optimism and market skepticism.

Follow our guests: @tarunchitra @hosseeb

# Notes:

• Tokens launched in bull markets typically underperform

• Bitcoin has decoupled from alts as a "macro asset"

• VCs typically invest at much lower valuations pre-listing

• Zora launched at $200M valuation as a "fun token"

• Crypto VC returns are power-law distributed

Timestamps:

00:00 Start

00:03 THE tweet heard around the world

01:17 Tokens must be traded

07:36 BTC dominance

10:50 Pricing tokens

17:03 Apples to apples

20:44 VC is going to ZERO

37:09 Uniswap token

44:56 Different reality

50:14 Moving the goalpost

1:01:14 Infinite money printer

1:05:24 Who's the fool?

1:17:06 Claim on cashflows

1:24:53 Steel-man my argument

1:36:41 Investor protection

👋 The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume. They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter.

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Welcome back to the Gwart Show! Today we have Haseeb Qureshi and Tarun Chitra about whether VC-funded tokens are vaporware or valuable investments. They tackle fundamental questions about crypto market structure, token valuation models, and the long-term economics of L1 blockchains. Is there a carrying capacity for tokens? Are smart contract platforms overvalued? Will L1s converge to their utility value or maintain monetary premiums?

Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com

# Notes:

- Crypto market caps follow power law distribution

- Solana valued at ~$80 billion despite skepticism

- Stablecoin market grew from $130B to $240B

- Bitcoin dominance may increase over time

- Most tokens trending down in USD since launch

- L1 valuation combines utility, equity & monetary use

Timestamps:

00:00 Start

03:09 Infinite tokens - Haseeb

06:10 Infinite tokens - Gwart

09:55 Infinite tokens - discussion

11:47 How to value a token

21:32 Proof of stake

30:02 Staking pro & con

33:38 ETH value

35:18 ETH is money (or not)

39:20 Value of new L1s

44:44 ROI for tokens

46:33 REV

50:46 Payments.. meh

👋 The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume. They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter.

Enjoy the show? Check out our website and newsletter by clicking here.

Questions or want to sponsor? [email protected]

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to The Gwart Show! Today, Jarry Xiao, co-founder and engineering lead at Ellipsis Labs, joins to chat tradfi to crypto infrastructure. Jarry dives deep into Phoenix, their central limit order book on Solana, and introduces Atlas - their purpose-built blockchain for financial applications. The conversation touches blockchain trading challenges, the economics of validator networks, and why truly effective trading systems require opinionated design.

Follow our guest on Twitter! https://x.com/jarxiao?lang=en

Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com

Notes:

- Phoenix did $70B+ in organic trading volume

- Solana's 400ms blocks still too slow for HFT

- Atlas uses single verifiable sequencer model

- Market makers need priority cancellations

- Blockchain revenue sustainability questionable

- MEV/sandwiching not sustainable for finance

Timestamps:

00:00 Start

00:33 Who is Jarray?

01:09 TradFi experience

01:50 What was Jarry trading?

03:23 Phoenix order book

06:45 Aggregators

10:31 Open validator set blockchain

13:15 Market making on SOL

17:05 Atlas

20:57 Limitations of SOL

25:02 Rejecting SOL base assumptions

28:09 What does Atlas unlock?

34:46 Purpose built?

36:31 Opinion sequencing

37:53 Multiple use cases

42:37 Stock market on-chain

46:53 Why L2 sequencer design?

54:11 Memecoins here to stay

1:04:39 Why did it take so long?

👋 The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume. They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter.

Enjoy the show? Check out our website and newsletter by clicking here.

Questions or want to sponsor? [email protected]

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to The Gwart Show! Today, @rajivpoc from @hiFramework joins us. We discuss the L1 trade narrative (“not cooked”), the influx of talented builders entering crypto, and dynamics between VCs and retail investors. Rajiv offers perspectives on Hyperliquid's success, the future of memecoins, and why Bitcoin-based financial products represent a massive opportunity. He also shares his optimistic outlook on washing away "grift" from the space while supporting serious builders with real business models.

Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com

Timestamps:

00:00 Start

00:50 Who is Rajiv?

01:35 Venture capital vibes

04:26 What are builders focused on?

05:54 AI + Crypto = ?

07:51 What's Rajiv's specialty

09:54 Are L1 investments cooked?

13:49 Application development

16:16 Infra vs Apps definitions

19:19 Pump Swap

20:41 Are memecoins done?

22:42 Hyperliquid

27:48 Hyperliquid & VC funding

32:37 Direct investment

36:35 Investment time horizons

40:11 Tokens don't make assets NOT securities

43:46 Long TSLA at 75x leverage LFG

47:21 Where's the trade in stablecoins

49:35 VC gonna get REKT?

57:21 Bleeding value from tokens

1:01:20 Golden age of pump & dump

1:05:48 I WANT TO BELIVE

👋 The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume. They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter.

Enjoy the show? Check out our website and newsletter by clicking here.

Questions or want to sponsor? [email protected]

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to The Gwart Show! Today, we are joined by Guy, the founder of Ethena, one of crypto's fastest-growing stablecoin projects, which reached $6 billion faster than any dollar-pegged asset in history. We discuss how Ethena's synthetic dollar works by capturing funding rates from perpetual futures markets, why they've embraced centralized exchanges while maintaining neutrality, and their ambitious new Converge blockchain. The conversation explores stablecoin competition, the limitations of decentralized approaches, and how they plan to bridge traditional finance with crypto through their partnership with Securitize.

Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com

# Notes:

- Ethena reached $6B faster than any dollar asset

- Currently offering ~16% yield (avg 18% last year)

- Uses Bitcoin perps funding rates for yield

- Maintains neutrality across exchanges

- Converge is launching with Securitize partnership

- Looking to tokenize equities and T-bills

Timestamps:

00:00 Start

00:19 Guy's background

03:11 What's Ethena?

04:52 What hasn't this been tried before?

06:50 Rival stablecoins

10:57 Where are the risks?

15:13 Hyperliquid cancels order

18:04 How to compete with other stablecoins

21:01 One stablecoins to rule them all!

22:47 Why no yeild yet?

24:54 Why USDE isn't for payments (yet)

27:25 Superiority of a yield asset

30:54 What is Converge?

34:16 Alt L1?

34:31 Why build a new chain?

37:51 ETH in stagnation?

39:43 Vitalik the business man?

41:35 ETH as collateral for stablecoins

43:58 RWAs

48:15 Regulatory capture

49:57 Why equities on-chain?

54:16 On-chain price discovery

56:47 Airdrops

58:52 AMMs

1:01:57 Perpetual Futures funding rates

1:06:54 Trading edge

1:07:39 Citadel

1:10:09 Payment for order flow

👋 The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume. They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter.

Enjoy the show? Check out our website and newsletter by clicking here.

Questions or want to sponsor? [email protected]

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to The Gwart Show! Today, Andrew Bailey–fellow at the Bitcoin Policy Institute– joins Gwart to discuss Bitcoin's role as resistance money, the philosophical implications of cryptocurrency, and why simplicity might trump utility in digital assets. 

Follow our guest on Twitter: @resistancemoney

TOPICS

-Bitcoin as Resistance Money

-Philosophy in Cryptocurrency

-Stablecoins vs Bitcoin

-Ethical Money Creation

-Future of Financial Freedom

CHAPTERS

00:00 Start

01:07 Andrew bio

01:55 Why philosophy & Bitcoin?

04:26 Bitcoin background

06:31 What is resistance money?

07:14 Why is this book important?

10:24 Examples of BTC as resistance money

13:14 Tron is the People's Blockchain

18:12 ETH as alternative

20:48 Long EVM, Short ETH

32:40 What new-coiners care about

35:27 The philosophy of ETH

36:07 Vitalik's writing

41:50 Legitimate use cases

46:13 What is "utility"?

51:21 Lightning & MoE

54:16 What crypto tech should come to BTC?

1:03:05 Worldcoin

1:09:17 Effective altruism

1:14:16 Ends justify means?

1:17:28 When David Hoffman cries

👋 The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume. They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter.

Enjoy the show? Check out our website and newsletter by clicking here.

Questions or want to sponsor? [email protected]

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to The Gwart Show! Today, Willem from Botanix Labs joins us to discuss their pioneering "spider chain" approach for Bitcoin's second layer. Unlike traditional rollups, Botanix creates a decentralized network of multi-sig validators to bring EVM capabilities to Bitcoin while maintaining censorship resistance. Willem explains why decentralization matters for DeFi applications, how their validator system works with Bitcoin staking, and why they've chosen a different path than rollups. With mainnet launch planned for Q2, Botanix aims to enable Bitcoin holders to use their BTC in familiar DeFi applications without sacrificing security.

Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com

Notes:

- Spider chains prioritize decentralization over speed

- Botanix launching mainnet in Q2 2025

- Initial 15 validators expanding to hundreds

- Block time is 5 seconds with ~$0.01 fees

- Uses Bitcoin as gas fee, no separate token

- Validators will stake 3-5 BTC as bond

Timestamps:

00:00 Start

00:21 Intro

01:04 Spiderchain

02:20 Proof of stake on layer 2

06:14 Risk vs reward

08:02 Spiderchain vs rollup

14:55 BitVM

16:42 ZK tech

20:34 Data availability w/ Spierchains

21:25 Data on Bitcoin chain

22:13 Alt DA

24:23 Updates on Botanix

26:47 Wen token?

28:00 Primary users?

30:27 Block interval

30:50 Decentralization design limits

32:55 Fees

33:43 Porting ETH apps to Botanix

34:52 Bitcoin staking

36:34 EVM wallet compatibility

37:28 Place in L2 ecosystem

39:35 Functional BitVM rollup?

40:32 Changes to BTC

41:16 L2 protocol consensus?

42:17 Social consensus in BTC

45:49 Ordinals & Runes

👋 The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume. They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter.

Enjoy the show? Check out our website and newsletter by clicking here.

Questions or want to sponsor? [email protected]

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to The Gwart Show! Today, Alex Gladstein, Chief Strategy Officer at the Human Rights Foundation, joins us to discuss how Bitcoin functions as essential "money dictators can't stop" for human rights activists worldwide. With nearly 18 years at HRF, Alex shares fascinating stories of Bitcoin adoption in authoritarian regimes, his journey from skeptic to advocate, and why Bitcoin—not general "crypto"—provides the unique properties needed for financial freedom in oppressive environments. He explores privacy solutions, scaling challenges, and the future of complementary technologies like ecash and Nostr.

Follow Alex on Twitter: @gladstein

Notes:

- HRF quarterly Bitcoin grants

- The "currency of activists"

- Most global humanitarian funding stays in free countries

- Alex’s "Check Your Financial Privilege" book

- Bitcoin users in Malawi upgrading from saving with goats

- Stablecoins are primarily valuable when permissionless

Timestamps:

00:00 Start

00:30 Alex intro

11:48 HRF Bitcoin focus

17:08 Current projects

21:55 Cross border vs circular economies

27:30 Stablecoins

38:17 Bitcoin privacy

45:59 Covenants

51:17 Education is lagging

55:24 Does "crypto" have value?

1:02:31 NOSTR

👋 The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume. They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter.

Enjoy the show? Check out our website and newsletter by clicking here.

Questions or want to sponsor? [email protected]

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com

Welcome back to The Great Show! Today, we finish the second half of our chat with Felipe Montealegre from Theia Research on traditional private equity valuation methods and crypto investing. We explore fundamental analysis in DeFi, token valuations, shareholder rights, and the evolution of crypto markets. Felipe shares insights on identifying quality revenue streams, evaluating moats, and building sustainable value in the crypto ecosystem.

Topics: 

• DeFi Investment Strategies

• Token Valuation Methods

• VC vs Liquid Fund Dynamics

• Revenue Sustainability

• Market Psychology

• Risk Management Approaches

🐦Follow our guests on Twitter: @TheiaResearch

Timesstamps

00:00 Start

00:32 Wall street follow fast problem

01:41 Micropayments for services

05:20 Fat protocol thesis

07:10 Lack of innovation

09:26 The social role of investors

11:17 Lending on Solana

13:18 Incentive programs

16:38 Hyperliquid air drop

22:08 Radium

30:51 Houdini

35:54 Absolute trash projects

38:43 Bad token strategies

40:27 VC

44:30 VC vs liquid investing

52:01 Being early vs actual utility

55:57 LP process

59:35 Bitcoin

1:02:56 Private equity

👋 The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume. They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter.

Enjoy the show? Check out our website and newsletter by clicking here.

Questions or want to sponsor? [email protected]

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to The Great Show! Today, Felipe Montealegre from Theia Research joins to discuss traditional private equity valuation methods and crypto investing. We explore fundamental analysis in DeFi, token valuations, shareholder rights, and the evolution of crypto markets. Felipe shares insights on identifying quality revenue streams, evaluating moats, and building sustainable value in the crypto ecosystem.

Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com

Topic:

3. PE vs Crypto Valuations

4. Finding Crypto Fundamentals

5. Investing in Token Cash Flow

6. Crypto Moats & Real Value

🐦Follow our guests on Twitter: @TheiaResearch

Timestamps:

00:46 Intro

03:35 Thesis of the fund

05:57 Fundamentals & market cap

12:40 Valuation methods

17:07 Timeframes

21:57 Defendible moats

28:22 AAVE

33:49 Token holders are not shareholders

39:42 Metaplaex

43:57 Returning token holder value

👋 The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume. They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter.

Enjoy the show? Check out our website and newsletter by clicking here.

Questions or want to sponsor? [email protected]

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices