Mark McAvoy: The Purveyor of Possibility Why Modern City Management Requires Courage, Creativity, and a Culture of Listening

Episode 263 of The HaltingWinter Podcast Brought to you by Tyler Technologies

In this episode, Seth Winterhalter sits down with Mark McAvoy, City Administrator of Liberty Lake, Washington, to explore a leadership journey shaped by storms, service, and a deep commitment to innovation. From answering emergency calls during a Category 5 hurricane as a high school senior to leading one of the Northwest's most vibrant small cities, Mark's path offers a compelling look at what modern municipal leadership truly requires.

Mark shares how formative experiences in Galveston, the Air Force, Houston's massive permitting ecosystem, and fast-growing cities in Texas prepared him to lead a community where vision, culture, and community identity matter as much as infrastructure and economic development.

He also offers clear-eyed insight into the challenges city managers face today—housing, infrastructure, fiscal resilience, and the emergence of AI—and why listening must become a cultural expectation, not a performance.

Whether you're a city manager, department head, or emerging leader in local government, this conversation is a practical and inspiring reminder of the courage, creativity, and clarity required to help communities thrive.

Sponsored by:

• Tyler Technologies – the nation's leading provider of software designed specifically for the public sector. Learn more at tylertech.com/winter

• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/sethwinterhalter
• Website: www.HaltingWinter.com

Show Notes: MLDC Book of the Week – Man's Search for MeaningEpisode 262 of The HaltingWinter Podcast

If you've worked in local government leadership for more than a week, you've had that moment. Sitting in your office, your car, or your kitchen at midnight...asking yourself: "Why am I doing this?"

In this episode, Seth Winterhalter explores Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning" and its profound application to local government leadership. Frankl, a psychiatrist who survived Nazi concentration camps, discovered that those who endure difficult circumstances share one thing: a sense of meaning powerful enough to transcend their "how."

For city managers, county administrators, and department heads facing relentless pressure—difficult councils, impossible budgets, thankless work, and constant criticism—Frankl's insights offer a framework for not just surviving but finding purpose in the midst of difficulty.

Join the MLDC for the Complete 5-Part Series

The Municipal Leadership Development Circle (MLDC) is a network of local government leaders from across North America, including city/county managers, administrators, and department heads, giving you access to: ✔ A weekly podcast series breaking down one book for municipal applications ✔ Daily blog reflections and implementation tools ✔ Our monthly virtual mastermind sessions ✔ Monthly webinars with relevant training from local gov leaders

➡ Learn more at www.HaltingWinter.com

Resources Mentioned

• Book: Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl
• MLDC Info: www.haltingwinter.com/mldc

Connect with Seth

• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/sethwinterhalter
• Website: www.HaltingWinter.com

The Table That Serves Us All Thanksgiving Special 2025

Episode 261 of The HaltingWinter Podcast Brought to you by Tyler Technologies

For most people, Thanksgiving centers around one table—the one filled with family, food, and the stories we share. But there's another table that rarely gets noticed. A table that holds up entire communities. A table built—not with wood and nails—but with early mornings, late nights, and the steady commitment of public servants who choose to show up every single day.

In this Thanksgiving Special, Seth Winterhalter steps away from the interview format to speak directly to the people who keep cities and counties running. From public works crews in the trenches to clerks safeguarding democracy, from utility teams keeping water flowing to city managers carrying the weight of constant decision-making, this episode is a heartfelt tribute to every role that makes public life possible.

If you're a local government leader or someone who serves behind the scenes, this episode is for you. It's a thank you—long overdue and deeply earned.

Sponsored by:

• Tyler Technologies – the nation's leading provider of software designed for the public sector. Learn more at tylertech.com/winter

• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/sethwinterhalter
• Website: www.HaltingWinter.com

Paul Nerland: The Leader Who Never Stopped Listening The Hidden Power of Paying Attention

Episode 260 of The HaltingWinter Podcast Brought to you by Tyler Technologies

What happens when a leader treats listening not as a courtesy, but as a strategy? In this episode, Paul Nerland—CEO of Fresno County—opens the door to a different kind of public-sector leadership: one grounded in humility, clarity, and a deep respect for the people who make local government work.

Paul shares his journey from Calgary to California, from HR to CAO, and the lessons that shaped how he leads one of the largest and most complex counties in America. His approach is simple but rare: pay attention, ask better questions, and don't pretend you already know the answers.

Sponsored by:

• Tyler Technologies – the nation's leading provider of software designed specifically for the public sector. Learn more at tylertech.com/winter

• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/sethwinterhalter
• Website: www.HaltingWinter.com

Show Notes: MLDC Book of the Week – Made to StickEpisode 259 of The HaltingWinter Podcast

Ever leave a meeting absolutely convinced your message was crystal clear, only to find out no one remembers it two weeks later? The problem isn't attention. It's stickiness.

In this episode, Seth Winterhalter translates the insights from Chip and Dan Heath's Made to Stick to public sector realities, showing why even brilliant ideas die when buried under complexity. From city hall presentations to community engagement plans, he explores the six traits that make ideas memorable—Simple, Unexpected, Concrete, Credible, Emotional, and Stories—and why mastering them can turn your communication into culture.

Join the MLDC for the Complete 5-Part Series

The Municipal Leadership Development Circle (MLDC) is a network of local government leaders from across North America, including city/county managers, administrators, and department heads, giving you access to: ✔ A weekly podcast series breaking down one book for municipal applications ✔ Daily blog reflections and implementation tools ✔ Our live, weekly, virtual mastermind session ✔ Monthly webinars with relevant training from local gov leaders

➡ Learn more at www.HaltingWinter.com

Resources Mentioned

• Book: Made to Stick by Chip & Dan Heath
• MLDC Info: www.haltingwinter.com/mldc

Connect with Seth

• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/sethwinterhalter
• Website: www.HaltingWinter.com

Micah Gaudet: From Accidental MPA to Intentional Leader When your next step isn't planned but is still purposeful

Episode 258 of The HaltingWinter Podcast Brought to you by Tyler Technologies

Micah Gaudet never set out to work in city management. He "accidentally" earned an MPA on his way to a career in intelligence. But from the Army to Ohio's Department of Public Safety to a small Arizona border town, each unexpected turn shaped his perspective on leadership, culture, and purpose.

Now serving as Deputy City Manager in Maricopa, Arizona, Micah shares how self-awareness, humility, and faith turned career detours into a deliberate path toward impact. His story is both a mirror and a map for leaders navigating their own unpredictable journeys in local government.

Micah's New Book: Fragile Systems: An Ecological Approach to AI in Government

Micah's AI Company: Civic Innovation AI

Sponsored by:

• Tyler Technologies – the nation's leading provider of software designed for the public sector. Learn more at tylertech.com/winter

• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/sethwinterhalter
• Website: www.HaltingWinter.com

Matt Stiles: The Grace to Leave and the Grit to ReturnReclaiming Purpose and Possibility in the Middle of Municipal Chaos

Episode 257 of The HaltingWinter Podcast Brought to you by Tyler Technologies

Matt Stiles' story isn't polished; it's powerful. Raised in poverty, shaped by hardship, and driven by a deep sense of purpose, Matt's journey from a small Kansas town to city administrator reveals what it really means to serve with heart.

In this episode, Matt shares how growing up with a mother battling mental illness and living through poverty gave him an empathy that now defines his leadership. From the challenges of managing debt-heavy development projects to rebuilding trust after political fallout, he's learned that leadership isn't about perfection; it's about perseverance.

After walking away from city management to protect his health and family, Matt found a way back—refreshed, refocused, and ready to lead again. His story is a masterclass in humility, recovery, and rediscovering why public service still matters.

Sponsored by:

• Tyler Technologies – the nation's leading provider of software designed for the public sector. Learn more at tylertech.com/winter

• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/sethwinterhalter
• Website: www.HaltingWinter.com

Show Notes: MLDC Book of the Week – Radical CandorEpisode 256 of The HaltingWinter Podcast

Most leaders mistake being nice for being kind, and that confusion quietly destroys trust, performance, and culture. In this episode, Seth Winterhalter reframes honesty as the truest form of care. Drawing from Kim Scott's Radical Candor, he explores how courageously combining empathy with accountability transforms teams and rebuilds credibility in local government leadership.

Join the MLDC for the Complete 5-Part Series

The Municipal Leadership Development Circle (MLDC) is a network of local government leaders from across North America, including city/county managers, administrators, and department heads, giving you access to: ✔ A weekly podcast series breaking down one book for municipal applications ✔ Daily blog reflections and implementation tools ✔ Our live, weekly, virtual mastermind session ✔ Monthly webinars with relevant training from local gov leaders

➡ Learn more at www.HaltingWinter.com

Resources Mentioned

• Book: Radical Candor by Kim Scott
• MLDC Info: www.haltingwinter.com/mldc

Connect with Seth

• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/sethwinterhalter
• Website: www.HaltingWinter.com

José Madrigal: Effort and Intent: Two Principles That Redefine Municipal Leadership

Episode 255 of The HaltingWinter Podcast Brought to you by Tyler Technologies

When José Madrigal became City Manager of Durango, Colorado, he inherited a city recovering from internal scandal, cultural fatigue, and the isolation of the pandemic. Instead of pushing rapid change, he started with two words that would redefine his leadership and his organization: effort and intent.

In this episode, José joins Seth Winterhalter to unpack his journey from Texas politics to the mountains of Colorado, tracing the lessons learned in cities like Cedar Park, Irving, and McKinney that shaped how he leads today. From building trust in turbulent times to transforming organizational culture through authentic listening, José shows what it takes to create belonging, resilience, and pride in local government.

Sponsored by:

• Tyler Technologies – the nation's leading provider of software designed for the public sector. Learn more at tylertech.com/winter

• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/sethwinterhalter
• Website: www.HaltingWinter.com

Craig Owens: When "Doing Good Work" Isn't Enough: The Call for Conscience, Equity, and Humility in Local Leadership

Episode 254 of The HaltingWinter Podcast Brought to you by Tyler Technologies

In this episode, Seth Winterhalter travels to Lawrence, Kansas, to sit down with Craig Owens, a city manager whose journey through Clayton, Ferguson, and now Lawrence reveals one of the most important truths in public service: good intentions aren't enough.

Craig shares how his early years in city management taught him to value results, but his time leading through the Ferguson unrest forced him to see the deeper work and how awareness, equity, and humility must shape every decision leaders make.

From navigating billion-dollar development deals to building trust after a national crisis, Craig reflects on what it means to lead with conscience, see through new lenses, and build cultures that serve everyone in the community.

Whether you're a city manager, department head, or public works leader, this conversation will remind you that leadership isn't just about policy—it's about perspective.

Sponsored by:

• Tyler Technologies – the nation's leading provider of software designed for the public sector. Learn more at tylertech.com/winter

• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/sethwinterhalter
• Website: www.HaltingWinter.com