During the Covid-19 pandemic, we limited contact with other people, we wore masks, and we closed public schools. These actions saved lives. Sort of, says David Zweig, a New York-based writer who became a voice of informed opposition to these sacrifices, stating that we may be saving some lives, but at what cost? His Substack is Silent Lunch. We broke our normal format this episode to give you a longer cut of Mike's interview with Zweig, who has a book on our public health systems' response to the pandemic coming out this summer called An Abundance Of Caution.

Produced by Joel Patterson and Corey Wara

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