The Intangible Brand

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Susan Baier, founder of Audience Audit, to explore how professional service firms can build stronger brands by understanding what their audiences actually believe, not just who they are on paper.

Susan explains why demographics and generic personas often fall short, and how attitudinal research helps firms sharpen their point of view, create more relevant thought leadership, and earn trust over time. We talk about what clients really expect from expertise-led brands, how original research becomes a long-term differentiator, and where AI supports marketing teams versus where it risks flattening credibility.

We cover:
• Why perspective matters more than demographics
• What attitudinal segmentation reveals that personas miss
• How custom research creates defensible differentiation
• What clients actually want from thought leadership
• The role of trust, substance, and experience in brand building
• Where AI helps and where it can quietly erode credibility

Recommended resource:
• Exceptional Experiences podcast by Neen James

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In this episode, we talk with Tate Fisher about what it really takes to design service experiences that serve customers, support employees, and work for the business. Tate draws on years of work with multi location and franchise brands to explain why service is always co created and why balance across those three stakeholders matters more than any single tactic.

The conversation hits on how to build predictable systems without stripping out humanity, what frontline teams actually need in order to create meaningful moments, and why real behavior should shape both spaces and processes. Tate also shares what he’s learned from navigating franchisor–franchisee dynamics and the north star that helps both sides stay aligned.

What We Cover:

• The customer–employee–owner framework
• How co creation shows up inside physical service environments
• Designing systems that free people to deliver better experiences
• Lessons from telecom, franchise networks, and student housing
• Where alignment breaks down in multi site brands and how to fix it

Resources Mentioned:

• The Founders podcast

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Tate Fisher and Katalyst Group

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl talk with Brandon Coleman Jr., a brand strategist, speaker, and author who has spent five decades helping organizations understand what brand really is and how culture shapes it.

Brandon shares the stories and lessons that shaped his philosophy, from early mentors who challenged him to define value, to the rebrand of his own family firm, to his favorite example of culture-powered consistency at Buc-ee’s. His message is simple but hard-hitting: brands are built by people, trained through culture, and proven through experience.

In this Episode

• What “Brand On” means and why few organizations achieve it
 • How culture, training, and consistency shape real brand experience
 • Brandon’s early lessons in sales, confidence, and telling the truth
 • The rebrand of his family firm and what it taught him about identity
 • Why Buc-ee’s is a masterclass in operational culture
 • How employees become brand evangelists
 • Why big companies struggle with culture and where it breaks down

Guest

Brandon Coleman Jr. is a brand strategist, speaker, and author who has led thousands of brand alignment engagements across industries for more than 50 years. Known for his storytelling and straight talk, he teaches leaders how to build cultures that deliver on the brand every day.

Resources

• The Paradox of Success

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and guest host Alec Gleason talk with Shayne De La Force, a marketing strategist and author of Strategic Entanglement, a book that borrows principles from quantum physics to rethink how brand and growth operate together.

Shayne shares how global brands can close the gap between marketing and delivery, the cultural insights that inform his work, and why marketers must think like connectors — aligning teams, operations, and leadership around one shared promise.

In this Episode

• What “strategic entanglement” means — and why brand and growth are inseparable (00:05:20)
• The CMO as connector: integrating marketing into business strategy (00:10:45)
• Why understanding culture is essential to effective storytelling (00:18:00)
• Turning employees into brand evangelists and advocates (00:29:20)
• Marketing as a P&L generator, not a cost center (00:37:15)
• How global experience shapes local impact (00:44:10)

Guest

Shayne De La Force is a global marketing and brand leader known for applying systems thinking to growth. Through his work with international manufacturing and technology brands, he helps organizations translate complex innovation into human stories and measurable performance.

Resources

• Strategic Entanglement by Shayne De La Force

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and guest host Jill Davis sit down with Eddie Staley, Chief Innovation Officer, and Kristen Herndon, Director of Client Experience at WithersRavenel, an employee-owned engineering and consulting firm built around the idea that when employees think and act like owners, clients feel the difference.

Eddie and Kristen share how WithersRavenel connects culture, innovation, and client experience to deliver measurable impact. They unpack how employee ownership drives accountability, how client feedback loops shape continuous improvement, and how empathy turns data into loyalty.

From turning “detractors” into “promoters” to measuring satisfaction through Net Promoter Scores (NPS), this episode explores how intentional listening and internal collaboration create consistency, trust, and growth — one experience at a time.

In this Episode

• How employee ownership translates into client care (00:03:10)
• Building systems that make client feedback actionable (00:07:45)
• Using NPS and sentiment data to strengthen relationships (00:14:20)
• The role of empathy and curiosity in turning feedback into loyalty (00:19:55)
• Connecting internal culture with external client experience (00:25:40)
• Creating scalable, repeatable CX processes in professional services (00:31:15)
• The future of client experience in employee-owned firms (00:37:30)

Guests

Eddie Staley is Chief Innovation Officer at WithersRavenel, where he leads efforts to align data, technology, and culture in service of a stronger client experience.

Kristen Herndon is Director of Client Experience at WithersRavenel, guiding firm-wide initiatives to collect and act on client feedback, strengthen relationships, and translate insights into continuous improvement.

Together, they help connect the dots between ownership mindset, innovation, and client satisfaction.

Resources

The Customer Experience Playbook
The Intangible Brand episode featuring Tim Asimos (Client Savvy)
WithersRavenel — withersravenel.com

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Darrell Grant, Chief Experience Officer at Hightower Wealth Advisors, a firm redefining what client experience looks like in the wealth management space.

Darrell shares how intentional service design — what he calls a “butler mindset” — transforms everyday client interactions into moments of trust and care. He breaks down how small cues, like a prepared meeting room or a thoughtful follow-up, can signal excellence long before results are measured.

From his philosophy of “unbelievable” service to his belief that CX is a team sport, Darrell offers a practical look at how to build systems that make care consistent — not random. It’s a conversation about translating empathy into process and building trust by design.

In this Episode

• The “butler mindset” and how it shapes every client touchpoint (00:02:15)
• Bringing a brand promise of “unbelievable” service to life (00:06:45)
• Why great CX depends on shared systems, not heroic gestures (00:12:30)
• The 30-day follow-up that shows up when support fades (00:18:10)
• How internal culture enables consistent, human client experiences (00:24:00)
• The importance of aligning employee onboarding with client experience (00:30:25)

Guest

Darrell Grant is Chief Experience Officer at Hightower Wealth Advisors, where he leads efforts to design and deliver a client experience rooted in trust, consistency, and care. Drawing inspiration from Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara, Darrell helps his team turn small, thoughtful details into powerful signals of the firm’s brand promise.

Resources

• Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara
• Hightower Wealth Advisors
  
  

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Steven Gallo, Vice President, Client Services at Reputation Ink, a B2B marketing and PR agency for professional services firms.

Steve shares how PR can be more than an external visibility tool — it can also be a powerful driver of internal culture and employee engagement. Drawing on his work with architecture, engineering, and construction firms, Steve explains how to connect internal wins to external storytelling, choose the right communication channels, and align PR with HR and operations.

In this Episode

• Why PR is about more than coverage — it’s about culture, credibility, and reputation (00:03:15)
• How PR can become part of an employee recognition strategy (00:14:35)
• Turning project wins and innovation stories into morale-boosting recognition (00:31:35)
• Why authentic employee voices resonate more than leadership soundbites (00:34:30)
• Creating a feedback loop with HR and operations to ground stories in reality (00:34:55)

Guest
Steven Gallo is Vice President, Client Services at Reputation Ink, a B2B marketing and PR agency that works with professional services firms. He helps clients align media strategy with both external reputation and internal culture, ensuring communications strengthen the brand from the inside out.

Resources

• Spill The Ink Podcast
• Reputation Ink website

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Eric Anest, Senior Vice President of Marketing and Communications at Salas O’Brien, a rapidly growing engineering and consulting firm.

Eric shares his perspective on the connection between employee experience and client experience — and why brand work must start inside the organization. Drawing on his experience leading multiple mergers, a major rebrand, and the ongoing work of unifying thousands of people under one values-driven identity, Eric explains how marketing can be more than a service function. It can be a driver of business outcomes.

This conversation highlights how culture, communication, and leadership align to create growth that’s both sustainable and meaningful — for employees and for clients alike.

In this Episode

• Why internal communication is the foundation of brand alignment (00:01:46)
• How employee engagement directly shapes client experience (00:04:21)
• What it takes to unify thousands of employees during mergers and growth (00:09:12)
• Why marketing must integrate into overall business strategy (00:16:45)
• The role of employee ownership in driving culture and outcomes (00:22:10)

Guest
Eric Anest is the Senior Vice President of Marketing and Communications at Salas O’Brien. He has been instrumental in leading brand strategy for one of North America’s fastest-growing engineering and consulting firms, overseeing mergers, a major rebrand, and the integration of thousands of employees into a unified, values-driven culture.

Resources

• Managing Transitions by William Bridges book
  
  
• At The Table with Patrick Lencioni podcast
  
  

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry welcomes Dave Minifie, a seasoned leader known for bringing clarity to the relationship between purpose, leadership, and organizational culture.

Dave shares his perspective on why understanding the “why” (whether in personal life, family, or within an organization) is essential to achieving long-term success. He explores how leaders can create environments that empower people to reach their full potential, while also helping organizations unlock possibilities beyond what they thought possible.

This conversation highlights how the personal and professional are inseparably linked, and why purpose and culture are more than just buzzwords. They’re the foundation for lasting impact.

In this Episode

• Why purpose is the foundation of effective leadership (00:09:56)
• How to cultivate a culture where people thrive and organizations grow (00:03:43)
  The importance of connecting personal values with professional leadership (00:09:56)
• How environment and trust can unlock untapped potential (00:04:28)
• Why purpose-driven organizations outperform others (00:22:38)

Guest

• Dave Minifie is the Principal of MinifiesTake, LLC, a strategic consultancy focused on helping organizations articulate their purpose, mission, and beliefs to cultivate an intentional culture and drive sustainable growth

Resources

• It’s Not What You Sell, It’s What You Stand For by Roy Spence Jr. [book]
• Start With Why by Simon Sinek [book] 
• Grow by Jim Stengel [book]
• Pivot with Kara Swisher [podcast]

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What happens when a brand refresh becomes a catalyst for cultural alignment, recruiting strength, and leadership clarity?

In this episode of The Intangible Brand, hosts Jerry Gennaria and Carl Winstead speak with Lindsay Wilson, President and Interior Sector Leader at Corgan, and Elizabeth Pierce, Chief Marketing Officer at Corgan. Together, they share how one of the nation’s largest architecture and design firms transformed its brand from a visual update into a powerful tool for internal cohesion and market positioning.

You’ll hear how Corgan moved from an external brand refresh to a unified employer brand—one grounded in employee input and connected to recruiting, retention, and everyday decision-making. Lindsay and Elizabeth offer candid insights on balancing authenticity with aspiration, aligning leadership around shared goals, and turning brand language into a practical framework for both big initiatives and small operational wins.

In this Episode

• The tipping points that led to Corgan’s brand evolution (06:47)
• Why starting with the external brand smoothed the internal process (40:05)
• How to unify a global firm under one brand identity (09:49)
• Turning values into actionable, observable behaviors (23:15)
• Using employer brand as a recruiting and retention advantage (24:49)
• Patience, leadership buy-in, and authenticity in brand adoption (32:55)
• Applying internal brand principles to everyday challenges (29:19)

Guests

• Lindsay Wilson is President and Interior Sector Leader at Corgan, where she leads with a focus on people, brand, and strategic growth.
• Elizabeth Pierce is Chief Marketing Officer at Corgan, overseeing core marketing, brand and experience, and communications teams to align internal culture with external brand perception.

Resources

The Square Podcast by Corgan [podcast]

Unreasonable Hospitality [book]

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