The Integrated Schools Podcast

For the second episode in our Brown v. Board at 65: The Stories We Tell Ourselves series, we talk with Dr. Noliwe Rooks (Cornell). Her book, Cutting School: Privatization, Segregation, and the End of Public Education, as well as some of her more recent research around the pushback to school desegregation from communities of color and the decimation of the Black teaching corps following Brown v. Board, provide context in which to understand the full range of outcomes from Brown v Board.

While Dr. Johnson, in Ep 18, showed us some of the many benefits of desegregation, Dr. Rooks reminds us of many of the costs, especially to the Black community. She asks us to engage with these stories in order to understand the very real intent behind where we find ourselves today. It is only through changing the stories we tell, that we might envision a different, more equitable future for school integration.

Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Courtney Mykytyn. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Music by Kevin Casey.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

As we approach the 65th anniversary of the landmark Supreme Court case, Brown v. Board of Education (1954), we are pleased to present a special series looking at the stories we tell ourselves about Brown v. Board. The way we understand this case and its legacies do the work of making sense of our past and mapping out our future. With the brilliance of some amazing guests, we unpack some of these popular narratives and the ways in which they have undermined our ability to deal with racial and educational injustice.

In this first episode, we are joined by Dr. Rucker Johnson (UC Berkeley). Dr. Johnson shares some of the research and findings in his freshly-released book, Children of the Dream: Why School Integration Works. Using a longitudinal study of the children and grandchildren of Brown v. Board, Dr. Johnson shows us that desegregation did have profoundly important effects on individuals and communities even while we gave up on it too quickly.

Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Courtney Mykytyn. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Music by Kevin Casey.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

For the finale of Season 2, we’re joined by Dr. Shelly Arsneault, Professor of Political Science & Public Administration at California State Fullerton, who is collaborating on an upcoming book called Our Kids, Our Money, and Our Schools: The Persistence of Inequality in Public School Finance. We discuss the many ways in which private money is funneled into public schools – which schools get it, what they use it for, and what the impact is on the overall system of public education.

From PTAs to booster clubs, to education foundations, we see resources flowing into the schools with the least needs, further contributing to systemic inequities.

LINKS:

• Robert Putnum’s Our Kids
• Reporting from NPR on a poll reporting no increase in life satisfaction from getting into a “good” college or university.
• A report from The Center for American Progress on the role of parent contributions to school finance.
• California Supreme Court case Serrano v. Priest

And, to prep for Season 3 . . .

• Noliwe Rooks Cutting School: Privatization, Segregation, and the End of Public Education
• Amanda Lewis and John Diamon Despite The Best Intentions: How Racial Inequality Thrives in Good Schools
• Rucker Johnson – Children of the Dream: Why School Integration Works

Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Courtney Mykytyn. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Music by Kevin Casey.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In this episode we bring Anna back to grapple with a few things that have been on our minds of late. We discuss the David Kirkland episode (Ep. 14 — be sure to listen if you haven’t!) and answer some listener questions. Dr. Kirkland cautioned us around the centering of Whiteness in the work of integration. We dig in to that, as well as discuss the power of language in this work. Taking on a few listener questions, we grapple with whether a school is ever “too bad” and whether our kids being “just fine” is good enough.

LINKS:

• Despite Their Best Intentions by Amanda Lewis and John Diamond
• The Integrated Schools Two Tour Pledge

Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Courtney Mykytyn. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Music by Kevin Casey.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Dr. Allison Roda (Molloy College) joins us to discuss Gifted and Talented programs and segregation. Gifted programs (sometimes called G/T, GATE, TAG, etc) have long been criticized for serving a disproportionately large percentage of White and/or privileged students. Dr. Roda’s research looks at how access to these programs is often ‘gamed’ by White/privileged families. In this episode, we discuss this research along with the the perceived importance of the label of “gifted” (and the stigmas of not acquiring the label). We talk about the challenges that gifted programs create for educational justice and what Dr. Roda suggests we could do about it.

LINKS:

– Dr. Roda and Halley Potter on pushing in verses pulling out for GT services

– Dr. Roda on Parenting in the Age of High-Stakes Testing

– Dr. Roda calling for an end to separate gifted programs

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Courtney Mykytyn. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Music by Kevin Casey.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

A thought leader on educational justice, Dr. David Kirkland (NYU) joins us for a meta discussion around school integration. He shares a powerful vision of integration from a racial justice framework; it is one that is grounded in democratic participation and the sharing of resources and one that involves us all in the deliberation of what counts as knowledge, the language of curriculum, and the fundamental design of education.

Dr. Kirkland also encourages us to consider that integration is about fundamentally asking if we can organize our society in a different way, where our differences are seen as spaces that we not only celebrate but LET BE, where this forms the vibrancy of our being as a society.

He gives us language to think with, hope and, yes, he gives us homework, too.

LINKS:

• Gloria Ladson-Billings on moving from “gap” to “debt”
• Dr. Lewis Gordon
• Brown v. Board of Education (1954) and Brown v. Board of Education II (1955)
• Milliken v. Bradley (1974)
• Richard Rothstein Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How our Government Segregated America
• Vanessa Siddle Walker on the history of segregation
• Nikole Hannah Jones
• Michelle Alexander The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness
• Mark Lamont Hill Nobody: Casualties of America’s War on the Vulnerable, From Ferguson to Flint and Beyond
• Bryan Stevenson Just Mercy: A Story of Justice and Redemption
• Ta-Nehisi Coates We Were 8 Years in Power and Between the World and Me

Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Courtney Mykytyn. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Music by Kevin Casey.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Dual Language programs are exploding in popularity across the country — and particularly among White &/or privileged families in gentrifying communities. In this episode, we talk with Dr. Sofia Chaparro about her research following the establishment of one such program. Providing some overview of Dual Language issues, this conversation looks at the potential for these spaces as well as the ways in which things can go wrong.

LINKS:

• Connor Williams on white families in bilingual schools.
• The Washington Post on dual language and gentrification.
• Dr. Chaparro’s Research

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Courtney Mykytyn. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Music by Kevin Casey.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In this episode we’re joined by Kelly from NYC to talk about how we as white &/or privileged families show up in integrating schools. What does ‘colonizing’ mean in this context and, most importantly, how can we be thoughtful about not centering whiteness? We dig in to some of the ways integration can go sideways because of how integrating parents see things as “right” when they are often just “white” (&/or privileged). And we talk, of course, about nachos.

LINKS:

• Tema Okun on White Supremacy Culture
• Wendy Mogul – The Blessing of a Skinned Knee

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Courtney Mykytyn. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Music by Kevin Casey.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Professor and author, Dr. Elizabeth McRae, discusses her new book - Mothers of Massive Resistance: White Women and the Politics of White Supremacy. This is a compelling history of the everyday work that White women have undertaken to promote and reinforce racial segregation in America’s public schools. While legislation dominates the discourse, Dr. McRae reveals the many ways that White women have been segregation’s “constant gardeners”

We talk with Dr. McRae about what her research tells us about contemporary school segregation -- and the hope her work gives for it’s dismantling.

Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Courtney Mykytyn. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Music by Kevin Casey.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

We’re back! After a break over the holidays, we’re kicking off Season 2 of the Integrated Schools Podcast with a basic question – why does one person’s choice matter? What impact does your choice have for your kid, for your school, and for the system. We’ve got Denise from Santa Fe back, and we try to dig in – does your choice change anything? If so, for whom? Is it integration when we are talking about ONE kid? And if it moves the needle towards integration, why does that even matter?

It also brought up something we’ve heard in your feedback – we tend to talk about this topic in a very binary way. We discuss the how we think about this in a bit of an inside look at the conversations that go into making this podcast.

Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further.

Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – @integratedschls on twitter, IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us [email protected].

The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits.

This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Courtney Mykytyn. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy