The Mental Load

How does this affect mom's careers?

• Those who are able to put in more time, more travel, be available at all kinds of hours, etc. are more likely to get the big clients, the promotions, the career awards.
• But it’s not just about the time or physical availability; the mental load also affects mom’s careers because it makes it harder to focus and do deep work.

 “When a man expects his partner to ask him to do things, he’s viewing her as the manager of household chores. The problem is that planning and organizing things is already a full-time job. When we ask women to take on this task of organization and at the same time to execute a large portion, in the end it represents 75% of the work.”

Why do moms end up with so much of the mental load, even in couples that value equality?

•  It’s not just a “mom problem” and it’s not just a “couple problem” [can’t be solved simply by having moms get more organized or dads pitch in more]
• Part of the problem is with the way work is structured, especially in the US.
• If work is too demanding in terms of time/availability/travel/etc., it can make it hard for both parents to have these types of jobs. But greedy jobs tend to pay a lot, so what often happens is that one parent leans into a higher paying job and the other parent downshifts their career to be the “on-call/default parent.”
• Being the “default parent” à taking on more of the mental load of managing the household

What can we do about it? 

• Societal level: [how do we make work-life more tenable for parents (and especially moms) without just making “mommy track jobs”?]
• Make work less greedy (this has been done in fields like pharmacy, veterinarians, etc.)
• Increase flexibility and support across the board; make working conditions better for everyone (this can also be good for business too)
• Make life less hard for parents (better and more affordable childcare options, more mental health resources for kids and teens, etc.)   
• Couple level: dads can take on more of the mental load
• What can moms do? We don’t want to just wait around for society or our partners to change. What are some things that we can do now to make our work life and family life better or more sustainable?
• How can we focus and do deep work even when carrying the mental load?
• Dealing with the guilt
• Dealing with the mental distraction
• Mindset shifts (how do we square our ambitions with our practical realities?)
• Work-life conflict à work-life enrichment (Yael Schonbrun)
• The paradox of limitation (Oliver Burkeman)
• Slow productivity (Cal Newport)

What should men be thinking about as they’re raising modern families that can better support the deep work or change the ratio of greedy work?

Women are more likely to handle tasks that are time sensitive and occur frequently. When the average man does help around the house, he tends to take on more of the less frequent tasks, which are not as time sensitive and more easily outsourced, such as finances and yard work. 

What can/should companies do to shift this dynamic?

What shifts in perspective do we as a society need to make in order to stop holding women back?

• Half of women in UK fear equality is going back to 1970s – survey | International Women's Day | The Guardian
• How Thinking Of Everything Holds Mums Back
• Lightening the Mental Load that Holds Women Back

On this hot take, Katlynn discusses why men in relationships should not say "you just need to ask for help".

This makes women feel:

• undervalued
• unappreciated
• taken for granted

The reality is that you chose to do this life together, so saying that she just needs to ask for help makes the mental load her problem, indicates that the things she thinks about are her job only and let's her know you don't think of them as mutual chores to share.

This isn't a "fuck the patriarchy/white straight men suck" episode. This is an acknowledgment and discussion of facts. The facts are, that the patriarchy exists; by nature, it oppresses women and people of color; and it needs to be reformed. (which would then make it something new altogether) Society and institutions are made to evolve as they learn and I think we've learned enough about the patriarchy to make it clear that a lot needs to change.

And, to be fair, outside of the economics of the patriarchy, I would say that it doesn't actually serve white men that well either, which we will dive in to as part of this epsidoe.

What is patriarchy?

It's very complicated, but in an oversimplified explanation: it's the idea that men have more power, dominance, and privilege than women. Men hold positions of power and women are less valued therefore end up oppressed. The ideas of the patriarchy infiltrate daily life.

For example: women take men's names at marriage and their children get the male surnames. Another is that men hold most executive positions at companies and in government. They make decisions based on their worldview to the detriment of women. Obviously there are some parts we take bigger issue with than others.

Values like rationale thinking are prioritized over emotions. It's primarily white and heterosexual. Behaviors are policed based on the social construct of these ideas.

So what does this have to do with the mental load?

The patriarchy built and maintains the systems we have today that do not help and support women. It also steers men's behavior in a way that does not support modern family life. It leads to deeply unsatisfied relationships on both sides of the equation although for different reasons. It really lays the foundation for the mental load.

• In society?  Creates a hierarchy of power with white men at the top. Discussion: We'll discuss later on why we think the patriarchy doesn't actually serve men well either, but do you think it's something that the average man thinks about nearly as much as those who mother do?
• In American culture, women expect to be harassed and are constantly on alert for physical threats.
• In the workplace? Men hold most senior executive functions

If you're inherently against things like male dominance and privilege, does that make you a feminist? And is being a feminist still looked down upon?

Here's one definition I found: Many forms of feminism characterize patriarchy as a present-day unjust social system that subordinates, discriminates, and oppresses women. Feminists often view patriarchal ideology as the root cause of gender inequality.

So going by that, yes, I guess I'd define myself as a feminist and I would not feel bad about that. Side note - isn't it the patriarchy that makes us feel bad about being a feminist?

• the burden of childcare - as we all know by now, childcare is looked on a being feminine and appearing feminine is a big no-no for men under the patriarchy.
• sick days
• pick up/drop off
• appointments

All these things end up falling primarily to women. Thus, we must mentally retain the details around them.

• being the default parent - if your spouse is more valued in society than you, you'll be the first one school calls, the one who coordinates all the invisible labor, etc.
• Contraception - the burden to find it, take it reliably because we do not have rights to our own bodily autonomy in every state
• Invisible Labor - cooking, cleaning, chores - they're gendered and split unevenly. This is why so many women

Millenial women cite the mental load as one of the primary reasons they get divorced. Is it fair to say that the gendered norms the patriarchy instills in men actually holds them back from being productive in relationships?

Harmful behavior in households taught by the patriarchy:

• not helping with cleaning or knowing details of children's lives
• not emotionally supporting your wife
• not emotionally supporting your children

The man box: it sucks and it's doing your relationships a disservice. You can thank the patriarchy for that.

What is the man box?

It’s essentially a set of social constructs that men use to police each other’s behavior and it’s what they’re taught that they bring in to a marriage and a household that become behaviors we find problematic and contribute to the mental load. It’s a concept pioneered by Tony Porter, who has a fantastic TedTalk about it that we’ve linked in the show notes. Essentially:

• Don’t be emotional - except for Anger, anger is always acceptable
• Do not show weakness or fear
• Always demonstrate control 
• Be a protector
• Don’t be like a woman - heterosexual
• Do not be like a gay man
• Be tough
• Don’t ask for help
• View women as property/objects

Discussion: What of these man box teachings do you find most problematic and how do they contribute to your mental load?

Conclusion:

It's obvious what women have to gain from the patriarchy being radically reformed into something new. Better pay, equal rights, better balance. But men have just as much to gain.

Does this conversation become a chicken and the egg one? Because economically men benefit so much. And women's work is inherently undervalued so why would they even be convinced to try and change anything? What we see as being gained is seen as a loss by them.

• Patriarchal Ideology Explained
• Tony Porter: A call to men | TED Talk
• Critical Overview of Patriarchy, Its Interferences With Psychological Development, and Risks for Mental Health - PMC

Thriving Lives Fitness

Melissa Bloom

A well lived life

Mentioned in this episode:

Season 2 Episode 1 Sponsors

We don’t have show sponsors, but we do have an amazing group of people who have been great supporters of us on this podcasting journey.

Shorter episodes and weekly hot takes are coming later this fall!

The Mental Load will drop new season every summer and winter. This gives Angie and Katlynn time to research and create quality content during the off-season.

Thanks to everyone who's supported us so far on this journey, we're excited to bring you some amazing guests and conversations soon.

Millennial women are getting divorced at higher rates and the reason is because of the mental load. The reality is women are not attracted to men we have to mother.

We’re taught when we’re looking for relationships to look for someone we can take of. But that shit doesn’t change once you get married.

Today we're joined by Felicia Kashevaroff. Owner of Tend Task and a divorced mom. We dive in deep to what it's like balancing the mental load as a single mom and how the mental load contributes to divorce. Plus, what she's doing to help change that.

We ask:

• What was the division of labor like before divorce?
• Post divorce?
• What was your mindset as the idea of divorce started to take hold?
• What other ways did the mental load impact your relationship?
• Was there recognition after the fact about what could’ve gone differently?
• How would you change the situation, if anything?

Connect with Felicia:

website

Instagram

Email us: [email protected]

Show supporters:

Jen Zamzow - A Well Lived Life

Melissa Bloom

GforcePR

What is dad privilege?

The internet says: it’s when dads are treated like heroes and get praised for doing the same shit that moms do every fucking day. Dads get praised for just showing up. “Aw, you planned dinners for the whole week!” “Aw, you brought your kids to the birthday party!” “Aw, you gave the baby a bath!” -_-

We also say: it’s the ability to just do things in their lives without considering the bigger family picture/schedule: work late, go out for a beer after a long day, coming home from work (where you didn’t pick up the kids) and going straight to your room to “decompress”. Sleeping in when you didn’t get a lot of sleep that night. Putting yourself on bedrest with no questions asked when you’re sick. 

Basically the bar for dads is so low, don’t be a piece of shit, but for moms, it’s really high

What is maternal gatekeeping?

A mother’s belief about how much and whether or not a father should be involved in their kids’ lives. Basically it’s how we micromanage our spouses and how we try to create “perfection” within the household. 

This happens regardless of relationship status and comes into play when children come into the picture. Why? Women are taught that “mother knows best” so we seek validation through our way being “the right way”

“Mothers might have a difficult time giving up responsibility for care of the family, might want to validate their role as mothers and be recognized for the sacrifices they make for their families, or might view the father as inept or even a danger to his children. This latter view might be based either on actual evidence, the father’s past behaviors, or her personal perceptions of him and his failures as a man and father.

Furthermore, she might protect her child purely as a function of the child’s age. If the child is not old enough to verbalize his or her own needs and desires, she might feel qualified to make decisions and judgments for that child, thus becoming the monitor, supervisor, permission grantor, and controller of all others’ involvement with the child— including the father’s.”

This belief causes her to behave in ways that can include:

• What she says about the father in front of or directly to their child.
• Whether and how often she includes and updates dad on their child’s health, schooling, athletic, religious, and social life, and
• The extent to which she tells dad that she knows what is best for their child and the correct way to do things—while dad doesn’t.

We are taught from a young age our worth and value comes from the home we keep and the children we raise. Moms have “more at stake” in the product (child) than dads since their value isn’t as closely related to the children themselves.

In what ways do we gatekeep in our relationships?

Do moms create or perpetuate the dad privilege? 

This behavior cuts our husbands off at the knees. Even if they want to participate, they don’t because - who wants to be micromanaged or judged?

Aside from tapping out, what happens with our husbands in our relationships?

What are our husband’s reactions?

• Learned Helplessness

How do we change?

• Vulnerability?
• Aim for peace not perfection
• When we delegate, set expectations upfront and then let it be - don’t micromanage
• Involve dads more when kids are babies - let them find their stride
• Remind ourselves that there is more than one right way
• Explain the why behind some of our “requirements” so our husbands understand what we’re trying to accomplish and why it’s important.

What is one thing you’re going to change now that you’re more aware of how maternal gatekeeping and learned helplessness?

One goal of this podcast is to break a generational cycle. 

What are we worried our sons are learning when we bear the mental load?

"A popular squabble in my household stems from the fact that I bear the bulk of the mental load. My spouse—who’s a very involved and participatory partner—is still the guy that will make a plan to go to the playground with our kid, but won’t always remember to pack the sunscreen or a snack. (He’s working on it!)

If I go, I’ve packed for every potential scenario. This anecdote isn’t meant to shame him; it’s more meant to illuminate a distinction about the way we—and most of my generation—were raised. Women were taught to take on invisible labor; men were not."

How did we get to a point where girls and women are being encouraged to break barriers, but our sons and men aren't supporting the infrastructure needed to change?

In the 80’s & 90’s girls were taught we could “do anything” (it was an ad campaign!). But the message for boys did not change during this time. So while we were being taught to break barriers and think in new ways outside of traditional gender roles, young boys were not being taught to consider how their roles might have to change.

Boys witnessed both parents going to work, but the questions like “where is my…” “what’s for dinner” “When are we doing…” were still answered by mom.

Likewise, girls learn the behaviors that perpetuate the cycle. This also sets a framework for how future relationships look like. 

We want to raise strong girls capable of self advocating. And we want to raise boys who can help bear the mental load in future relationships.

1. Husbands can learn and model anticipating so our boys mimic them
2. Non-gendered chores - don’t give boys the “once in a while” chores while your girls get the daily ones (anecdote about “husband lessons” from Sam and how I see Hudson getting frustrated by the mental load of the dishwasher)
3. Teach them planning/anticipating and monitoring - if they feed the dog, they need to be responsible for writing down dog food on the grocery list when it’s needed. Or bringing their laundry to the laundry room if they’re old enough to see they’re running low. 
4. Pay both genders equally for chores
5. Create clear expectations and consequences (no video games until your socks are picked up) 

Feedback? Email Angie at: [email protected]

Welcome, Melissa Bloom, energy coach!

The most popular question we get is "how do I fix the imbalance? how do I get rid of or at least lighten the mental load?"

It's a challenging issue because it has so many different facets to it. Enter, Melissa. As an energy coach, Melissa works with all kinds of clients to find balance and feel joy in their lives. The mental load, as we all know, takes a heavy toll on women personally and professionally.

Here's her practical advice for solving the mental load:

• Know what's important to you and align your daily/weekly activities to support what's important
• Curate your environment
• Be intentional about creating space for yourself (this is NOT about self care!)
• Start your day by creating a morning ritual
• Have conversations that focus on what your family wants to feel rather than starting with a to-do list

Buy Melissa's book

30 days of inspiration

Path to Joy Podcast

Melissa's Work

All of this to say that women are taught from an early age that our worth and value comes from the house we keep and the kids we raise. Dads are taught that their job is done as soon as they’ve provided shelter and money for the family. 

What this looks like in Women: 

• Programmed to think self worth comes from the house we keep and the kids we raise
• Are taught to be the caretakers (therefore we prioritize this within our do to list)
• Nice vs Kind: Being nice is when you are polite to people and treat people well. Being kind is when you care about people and show you care.
• "Being Nice" means we avoid confrontation and is dishonest. Kind would be honest but often uncomfortable
• Confrontation in relationships feels like it could be the end rather than an opportunity to understand more or accept differences
• Nice leads to guilt over having our own needs
• We police our own behavior:
• Tone of voice (harshest for women of color who battle the “angry black woman” trope in all areas of life)
• If we ask for something, say at work, we risk being labeled “aggressive”
• Nice is transactional but “kind” positions us as worthy to give and receive kindness
• Our time and work is seen as less valuable than when men can contribute - both at home and in the office. 

Women are often seen as multi-taskers that it’s part of their personality

if being a “multi-tasker” was a personality trait, we would see it spread across genders. But as it stands, women are the ones being assigned with this label.

What programming looks like in men:

Men are programmed to believe their worth comes from providing for the family. Once those jobs are complete, they deserve to be cared for. Men are raised to be:

• Breadwinners
• Protectors
• Hold jobs that are more highly valued
• Disconnected - emotions are weaknesses

But,

• Women are seen as “right” when it comes to the safety of the (shared) children

In a study, young men supported gender equality in theory. But many held on to traditional ideas about gender roles. They saw men as “breadwinners” or “protectors” and women as “carers” and felt that societal attitudes hadn’t changed dramatically.

One of the ways we reinforce gendered behavior is by focusing on economics. If one partner earns more money than the other, we tell ourselves that the partner who earns less or works fewer hours has more time for household work. Each week, according to Pew, mothers spend nearly twice as long as fathers doing unpaid domestic work. 

Men are simply not taught to look at the things that we look at because remember the mental load is largely anticipating and monitoring the outcomes, the shit end of the process to do and that’s how gender programming contributes to the mental load. 

when women say they're solely charged with handling their child's well-being, including being attentive to their emotions and relationships, it can lead to lower satisfaction with their partner and their life, as well as feelings of emptiness. That included whether the women felt unconditionally loved and accepted as well as how they viewed intimacy with their partners. Even when taking such variables into account, Luthar found that being solely responsible for a child's emotional development was negatively related to women's well-being and satisfaction with their relationship.

Stereotypical expectations about what constitutes women’s and men’s work are not simply the outmoded relics of past generations. Research shows they persist even among LGTBQ families as well as millennial couples.

Should women care less? 

In a reel we were sent it's a lady who, upfront, seems like she's explaining something everyone can get on board with: men aren't taught to "need" things to be clean, so they don't like to clean. It's useless to convince them they should like to clean. But they can be convinced to clean because you care about cleaning and "men will do a lot of stupid shit for the women they love". But then she ends with a zinger: "But women, you should also just care less".

Women shouldn't have to care less. We shouldn't be expected to be the ones that adjust our needs and wants. Men are capable of doing it too and there's plenty of research that shows why they should.

Should men care more?

Going back to gender assumed roles. They don’t have as much emotional skin in the game to care about a tidy home so their care meter is different than ours.

Mentioned in this episode:

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Thriving Lives Fitness

It's (one) of the episodes you all have been waiting for. How do you have the mental load conversation with your spouse and create meaningful change?

Licensed therapist, Kristen Sanchez, takes us through the process of:

• having the conversation
• examining your own contributions
• approaching your partner
• creating lasting change
• the impact of the mental load on relationships

Join us for this impactful conversation with an unexpected solution to solving the mental load.

Mentioned in this episode:

Thriving Lives Fitness

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