The Metrics Brothers

AI and AI-Native companies are changing the software industry and the metrics to measure AI market momentum are still evolving.

During this weeks episode, our co-hosts Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss a recent article on AI Metrics by Benedict Evans. AI measurements and metrics discussed include:

• Daily Active Users / Monthly Active Users (DAU/MAU)
• Tokens - what they are and how they are calculated
• Weekly User Retention

Dave and Ray take us on a stroll down "metrics memory lane" as they discuss the early days of the internet, and some of the metrics that were used in the early days, that evolved and changed as the use of the internet began to mature - some of those metrics included:

• Internet Hosts
• Hits
• Page Views
• Eyeballs

Lastly, the term Occam's Razor was introduced to discuss why sometimes the simplest metrics that require the lowest number of assumptions is a good place to start when initially measuring new things.

The Metrics Brothers are excited to expand their metrics-centric analysis and insights into the rapidly evolving world of AI, and specifically AI software and AI metrics!

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Figma is a web-based collaborative design platform used by product designers, UX/UI teams and developers. They also just recently filed their S-1.

During this episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss several aspects of the S-1 including:

• Customer count & revenue by customer segment (< $10,000 ARR, > $10,000 ARR, > $100,000 ARR, > $1M ARR)
• Net Revenue (Dollar) Retention Rate Calculation (132%)
• Gross Revenue (Dollar) Retention Rate Calculation (96%)
• Rule of 40 = 79 (higher than Palantir)
• Impact of the Adobe acquisition collapse - an enterprise valuation perspective

Inspiration for the discussion and a few data points beyond what was in the Figma S-1 included:

• Jamin Ball - Clouded Judgement Newsletter
• Only CFO Newsletter
• CJ Gustafson - Mostly Metrics Newsletter

If you are interested in SaaS companies, S-1 filings and SaaS Metrics such as Net Revenue Retention, Gross Revenue Retention, and Rule of 40 - those metrics that impact enterprise value - this episode is for you!!!

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Go-to-Market is a term often used to describe the strategy, processes, and organizations that B2B companies employ to acquire, retain, and expand their customer base.

In this episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike discuss the recently published ICONIQ report on the State of GTM 2025...and yes, it includes a lot about how AI-native and AI utilization are impacting all things GTM. 

Topics include:

• Funnel Conversion Rate Trends
• AI-Native Funnel Performance Advantages 
• Cost per Opportunity
• Customer Renewal Timing
• Go-to-Market Headcount allocation (AI-Native vs Legacy SaaS)
• AI's impact on Sales Productivity
• AI Spend Trends

If you are a GTM leader, are responsible for the financial performance of your B2B SaaS company, or are interested in how AI is impacting all things customer acquisition, retention, and expansion, this episode has something for you!!!

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The definition of Annual Recurring Revenue (ARR) has never been standardized - but in an era of variable pricing models such as Usage-Based Pricing, the innovative approaches to calculating and reporting ARR continue to evolve. During this episode, Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike cover the topic guided by a few recently industry influencer posts - coupled with their own experiences including:

• Ben Murray, The SaaS CFO - Please Don't Tell me ARR is Dead
• CJ Gustafson - How Public Companies Report ARR
• Notable, Glenn Solomon and Laura Hamilton. - Is ARR Dead or Just Evolving?
• Ben Murray, The SaaS CFO - Defining and Reporting ARR in a Variable Pricing Environment
• Dave Kellogg - SaaS Metrics Palooza '24 - The Impact of AI on SaaS Metrics (especially ARR)

If you are interested in the topic of how companies using a variable pricing model are calculating and reporting ARR - this is a must listen episode and provides links to some of the most recent thinking on the topic!

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Mary Meeker’s experience dates back to her role as a leading technology analyst at Morgan Stanley with her “Internet Trends Report”, she was in the middle of the Netscape, Amazon, and Google IPOs, and became a VC at Kleiner Perkins (2010) and then founded Bond in 2018 which has raised $5.75B to fund companies including Canva, Stripe, Plaid, Ironclad and Nextdoor to name just a few.

During this episode of SaaS Talk with the Metrics, CAC and Growth discuss some of the KEY highlights of the 339-page report, Bond and Mary Meeker just released on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Trends - 2025 including:

• ChatGPT and Generative AI are the fastest growing technology adoption of all time - with context
• Exponential growth of the AI ecosystem
• How Generative AI is reinventing the technology stack and economic models
• Geo-political impact of the race to AI leadership
• Capital intensive nature of AI and the operating profitability reality
• Legacy SaaS companies or native language models applications - who will win...and why

The Metrics Brothers go beyond legacy SaaS to discuss the AI Trends captured in the Mary Meeker - Bond report and guess what - it includes numbers and metrics!!!

Full report available at: https://www.bondcap.com/report/pdf/Trends_Artificial_Intelligence.pdf

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Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike break down the recent Benchmarkit B2B Marketing Budget and Productivity Benchmarks Report. Key trends and insights into how the Marketing budgets are established, consumed and reported upon including:

• Marketing budget as a percentage of revenue including YoY changes and segmented by company size
• Growth Rates compared to Marketing budget allocation - the chicken or the egg discussion
• People vs Program vs Technology budget allocation - and which company profile attributes impact the results
• Demand Generation - how much of the Marketing budget is consumed by demand gen - it depends...
• Product-Led Growth vs Sales-Led Growth - how the GTM motion impacts budget allocation
• Top 3 Marketing Performance Metrics use and the Top 3 Marketing efficiency metrics used

If you are evaluating how your Marketing budget companies to similar "like" companies or how other companies are measuring the efficiency and/or Marketing ROI - this episode has something for you!

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How do you calculate the efficiency of pipeline generation in a B2B SaaS company? Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike take this metric(s) topic on head first by discussing both the Cost per Opportunity and Pipe to Spend metrics - key to understanding how much investment is required to generate pipeline!

During this episode CAC and Growth also touch upon the closely aligned metric of "Pipeline Conversion" which is a critical metric to partner with both the Cost per Opportunity and the Pipe to Spend metrics!

If you are responsible for generating pipeline (Demand Gen), responsible for the budget that goes into pipeline generation (Head of Marketing / CMO) or for how efficient new pipeline and the associated New ARR is produced (CFO and CEO) this episode has something for each pipeline generation stakeholder!!!

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Customer Acquisition Cost efficiency continues to be challenged in the B2B SaaS environment, while alignment across the Go-to-Market organization continues to be a topic of conversation. So, Dave "CAC" Kellogg a long time Marketing executive and Ray "Growth" Rike, a long time Sales executive decided to take on the the topic of Marketing and Sales alignment from their respective experiences as department executives. Topics discussed include:

• What is Marketing and Sales Alignment
• What isn't Marketing and Sales Alignment
• Top 3 Ideas to Achieve Marketing and Sales Alignment
• How Metrics Can Impact Marketing and Sales Alignment
• The Impact of Alignment

If you are a CEO depending on the productivity of an aligned Go-to-Market organization, or the head of Marketing or Sales in a B2B SaaS company, this conversation is full of interesting ideas, stories and approaches to increasing revenue growth efficiency.

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Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike recently did a LIVE episode of SaaS Talk with the Metrics Brothers at the Baker Tilly Technology Finance Symposium in San Francisco. The topic of their discussion was aligning Finance and the Go-to-Market functions and included how SaaS metrics can be used as a core "alignment" strategy. 

During this "extended" version of SaaS Talk with the Metrics Brothers, Ray and Dave discussed several different strategies to align Finance and the GTM functions, including:

• What is alignment
• What isn't alignment
• Real-life stories on what misalignment looks like
• Putting "Strategy" back into Strategic Planning
• Strategic Planning Frameworks to consider
• SaaS Performance Metrics Framework to consider

If you are a CFO or GTM executive leader - this live conversation is full of interesting ideas, experiences and of course a few attempts at humor by the Metrics Brothers!

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Stock-based Compensation (SBC) has been a hallmark of the SaaS and Cloud industry since the early days. Stock Options, Restricted Stock Units, Strike Price, and vesting periods continue to be a key discussion point for potential hires. Today's episode covers how Stock-based compensation impacts Operating Expenses on the Income Statement...and how SBC can impact SaaS metrics.

Dave "CAC" Kellogg and Ray "Growth" Rike dive into the details of Stock-Based Compensation in today's episode including:

• What is Stock-Based Compensation (SBC)
• How does a company pay/account for SBC
• What kind of expense is Stock-Based Compensation
• Where does SBC show up on an Income Statement
• How can SBC impact SaaS metrics

Stock-Based Compensation can be a very complex and nuanced topic, but if you are a SaaS executive, a SaaS employee with stock options, or a SaaS company investor, this conversation and episode is full of detailed insights.

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