On the Gist, paying the Taliban and not believing the New York Times.

In the interview, the around-the-clock news cycle turns 40 years old this summer. With the advent of cable television and a bright idea from an American media mogul, CNN was born. Journalist and author, Lisa Napoli, talks with Mike about her unauthorized biography, Up All Night: Ted Turner, CNN, and the Birth of 24-Hour News, and explains how the station became a trailblazing force in transforming the ways we consumed media at the end of the 20th century.

In the spiel, Trump is the worst. But he's not gone yet.

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Podcast production by Daniel Schroeder and Margaret Kelley.

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