The Pellicle Podcast

Since the arrival of the Covid-19 pandemic and the subsequent cost of living crisis, the UK has experienced the closure, or change in ownership of nearly 200 small, independent breweries. Prior to that, however, we saw a boom, growing from just over 700 in 2013, to more than 2000 at the start of 2020.

Around 700 of these breweries are members of SIBA, the Society for Independent Brewers and Associates. In March 2024, our host Matthew Curtis visited its annual trade show, Beer X, in Liverpool, and wandered the trade floor asking members two simple questions: what’s the biggest challenge facing their business at the moment, and what’s one thing they’re feeling positive about when it comes to beer and brewing.

It seems like a simple premise, but it revealed that while the industry is still facing hardships—illustrated by that decrease in overall brewery numbers—there’s still plenty to smile about. Independent beer, it seems, still has plenty of fight left in it, and that’s something all drinkers should take to heart. 

This episode features, in order of appearance: Catherine Webber (Attic Brew Co), Charlotte Thomson (Indie Rabble/A Hoppy Place), Paul Jones (Cloudwater), Sean O'Reilly (Brids Cross Brewery), Steve Dunkley (Beer Nouveau), Laura Rangeley (Abbeydale), Julie and Les O'Grady (Neptune), Richard Archer (Utopian Brewing), Cameron Brown (Turning Point Brew Co) and Sam Martin (Leigh on Sea Brewery).

We’re able to produce The Pellicle Podcast directly thanks to our Patreon subscribers, and our sponsors Loughran Brewers Select. If you’re enjoying this podcast, or the weekly articles we publish, please consider taking out a monthly subscription for less than the price of a pint a month.

Yeast so often plays third fiddle in the conversation about beer, and how it’s made. It never quite shares the limelight with hops, the most glamorous beer ingredient, and to some extent malt. And yet, it’s one of the most fascinating elements within beer's makeup. In this episode we chat to Alix Blease of Lallemand, and dig into the importance of yeast in brewing.

There’s a saying some brewers like to peddle, not to mention Alix herself in this episode: “brewers make wort, yeast makes beer.” It’s a statement I’ve never been inclined to agree with, because—as we learn in this episode—there are so many factors that can implement the fermentation process, and it is brewers, or cellar managers as they’re typically referred to in a brewery, who control these various processes. 

Simple adjustments such as temperature, the size and shape of a particular fermentation vessel, and indeed the strain of yeast (or yeasts) itself will have wildly different influences on a particular beer's fermentation. Through the careful stewardship of their yeast, brewers can influence a variety of flavours and other characteristics that contribute hugely to the finished beer in your glass.

Maybe, then, I can agree in part that the yeast does make the beer, but it wouldn’t be able to do so without those who steward it. Perhaps, in terms of fermentation, it’s more useful to describe brewers as shepherds, or perhaps yeast wranglers, who give these little critters the best possible chance to make a beer you and I will enjoy. In this episode, we learn why all of this is so important, and talk about some interesting developments in the future of yeast science, and how this will influence modern beer production.

We’re able to produce The Pellicle Podcast directly thanks to our Patreon subscribers, and our sponsors Loughran Brewers Select. If you’re enjoying this podcast, or the weekly articles we publish, please consider taking out a monthly subscription for less than the price of a pint a month.

How does the beer industry navigate a cost of living crisis? In a panel discussion recorded at IndyManBeerCon 2023, Jonny Hamilton chats to Phil Sisson from Glasgow’s Simple Things Fermentation, Julie O’Grady from Neptune Brewery in Liverpool and Toby McKenzie from RedWillow Brewery in Macclesfield to find out how the financial squeeze is affection small breweries, and their customers. 

I’m sure most of you have felt the pinch by now: you want to get a big haul in from that local bottle shop, but instead you opt for a couple of specials and a case of something reliable from the supermarket. That expensive third of DIPA looks tempting, but it’s your round and you’ll settle on a pint of something lower in ABV, and much more affordable.

The cost of living crisis has most of us feeling the squeeze. Rising energy bills, the cost of groceries, and the general expense of merely existing has had most of us making small changes to our lives, sometimes consciously, sometimes not. 

Small breweries, too, are feeling the pinch. For many it’s simply too much and since the Covid-19 pandemic close to 200 small breweries in the UK have either shut down, or found new investment, or even new owners to help them steer through the financial mire. This has a knock on effect for customers, not simply pushing up the cost of beer, but shattering the amount of choice. You only have to step inside your nearest hostelry to see that a handful of mass produced brands occupy the taps. 

There’s hope though, which can be heard in the tone taken by our host and three panellists in this episode of our podcast, all of whom own and work at small breweries in the UK. Sure, there’s a sense of realism throughout, but there’s also a sense that if they’ve made it this far, they might as well keep on going. For beer’s sake, as much of their own.

We’re able to produce The Pellicle Podcast directly thanks to our Patreon subscribers, and our sponsors Loughran Brewers Select. If you’re enjoying this podcast, or the weekly articles we publish, please consider taking out a monthly subscription for less than the price of a pint a month.

We were deeply saddened to hear that our peers at Good Beer Hunting would be closing their publication. In this episode Matthew shares some thoughts on GBH's significance, and why its more important than ever to support independent beer writing. 

Like beer, whisky has always fascinated me. Maybe it’s because, like beer, it’s brewed, and before distillation the resulting wash (the distilling term for wort) undergoes a period of open fermentation, not unlike a wild or mixed fermentation beer. Or maybe it's because it’s simply delicious. Enough so to pique my curiosity and to discover more about how it’s made, and the people who make it.

At White Peak Distillery in Ambergate, Derbyshire I found another beer hook from which I could hang my hat—that it uses brewers yeast sourced from the nearby Thornbridge Brewery. Not just any yeast either, as every Tuesday they collect several tubs of the same yeast that’s used to produce the brewery's flagship IPA, Jaipur. The hope is that using this yeast will produce lots of interesting esters during fermentation, adding fruit notes to the wash, which is then further amplified by whatever else gets in there during the open fermentation. 

The goal, as I learned when chatting to Max Vaughan, who founded White Peak with wife Claire in 2016, is to pack as much flavour into its distillate as possible, so that when it begins a long maturation in oak, it's already packed with character that will slowly, steadily evolve for several years until it’s ready to be called whisky. Tasting the results of what White Peak has released so far under its Wire Works range of whiskies, I genuinely think that this English whisky maker—one of about 50 in the country—could potentially be one of the most exciting drinks producers in the country at this moment.

Recorded in the tasting room at White Peak Distillery, in this episode I chat to White Peak founder Max Vaughan about why he decided to open a distillery to the edge of the Peak District, at the water’s edge of the River Derwent. In it I learn about how the brewery is constantly pushing for more interesting flavours through the use of heritage grains and through the use of many different types of barrel. We chat about sustainability, about the state of English whisky in general, and I learn how White Peak sources potentially the freshest bourbon barrels in the UK, direct from Kentucky, thanks to its partnership with US bourbon brand Never Say Die.

It’s a fascinating conversation, and if, like me, you’re more of a beer person than a whisky one, I promise there’s plenty of interesting stuff in here that may well pique your curiosity, just like it did mine.

We’re able to produce The Pellicle Podcast directly thanks to our Patreon subscribers, and our sponsors Loughran Brewers Select. If you’re enjoying this podcast, or the weekly articles we publish, please consider taking out a monthly subscription for less than the price of a pint a month.

How important is the role of sustainability in brewing? How does beer actually get made sustainably when it’s an incredibly energy-intensive process to actually get your beer from the farm to your glass? And how does the industry avoid greenwashing as it attempts to be more responsible about its impact on our climate and the environment?

All these questions and more are answered in our latest podcast episode: An Open Discussion About Sustainability in Beer. Recorded live at IndyManBeerCon in October 2023, this episode features Ben Stubbs of Rivington Brew Co, Chris Drummond of Allkin Brewing, IMBC founder Jonny Heyes, and is hosted by our very own Jonny Hamilton. 

At the start of the episode there’s also some reflection from our regular host Matthew Curtis about IMBC’s decision not to hold an event in 2024, and what the festival means to him.

We’re able to produce The Pellicle Podcast directly thanks to our Patreon subscribers, and our sponsors Loughran Brewers Select. If you’re enjoying this podcast, or the weekly articles we publish, please consider taking out a monthly subscription for less than the price of a pint a month.

Cast your mind back to February 2021, when I published episode 20 of this podcast. In an effort to experiment with the format of the show, I’d begun recording long monologues loosely based on the idea that I would ask myself a question and try to both answer and contextualise it in under an hour. 

One of the first questions I asked myself was “does cider have an image problem?” And, over the course of about 55 minutes, I sent myself down a rabbit hole of loaded opinion in which I expressed some deep feelings about cider and perry. It proved popular, in fact to date it is the third most popular podcast we’ve ever published. Why it has been listened to so regularly is largely down to the fact it split opinion about 50/50. Some relished the idea of cider’s image being challenged, while others found little to agree with.

One bone I picked at relentlessly during the episode was the existence of a supplier and trade body called Cider is Wine. I considered their use of terminology, in particular its decision to refer to cider and perry as ‘orchard wines’ to be somewhat self-defeatist. I’ve long considered that language and its use to describe alcoholic beverages to be a powerful tool. I also believe that for cider and perry to win more hearts and minds, it needs to be true to itself and not look to beer or wine for answers (or customers). This includes directly referring to itself as wine, and not cider, as Cider is Wine chooses to.

Not long after the episode was published I was contacted by the founder of Cider is Wine, Alistair Morrell, and we had a relatively healthy conversation about my views—well, as healthy as you can do via Twitter and email. What we did agree on, however, was that when Alistair found himself in Manchester we would sit down face to face and record a podcast, which we finally did in November 2023. 

Remarkably, as so often happens when you allow time for proper, in-depth, face-to-face conversation, we found that we had more common ground than we suspected. Well, I have a feeling that Alistair did suspect it, because cider is his business after all. While we didn’t agree on everything, we did speak constructively about the future of cider and perry, and discussed his use of specific terminology in depth. 

After the heated part of the interview, we also took the chance to taste through a few of the ciders he distributes, all of which were stunning. (Please note, this episode was recorded in a moderately busy bar, so there is a little background noise, but nothing hopefully too distracting.)

We’re able to produce The Pellicle Podcast directly thanks to our Patreon subscribers, and our sponsors Loughran Brewers Select. If you’re enjoying this podcast, or the weekly articles we publish, please consider taking out a monthly subscription for less than the price of a pint a month.

In hindsight, it’s easy to say that when writer David Jesudason pitched me a story on the history and significance of Desi Pubs, I bit his hand off. But reality is never that simple. While it’s true that I was desperate to commission stories by writers from non-white backgrounds, and publish stories that explored previously uncovered elements of British beer culture, I am always wary before I commit to an idea. 

The question I ask myself before I commission a story, whether I like it or not, is “would our readers enjoy this.” Although I get the final say over what we eventually publish on Pellicle it’s not really about what I like, it’s about meeting the expectations of the people who come to the site every week to read about beer, pubs, or whatever we happen to be talking about at the time. 

Thankfully, I loved David’s pitch, and we eventually published his first story on Desi Pubs on the 2nd of June, 2021. It was a hit, and in addition to opening up our readers to this vastly undercovered area of British pub culture, it sent David down a rabbit hole, as he delved ever deeper into researching and covering this topic. 

The eventual result of this would lead to the publication of his first book Desi Pubs, in 2023. On the book’s surface it’s a guidebook to British-Asian pub culture and some of the amazing Desi Pubs that can be found in certain parts of the UK. It’s fantastic, and if you haven’t already I urge you to buy a copy for yourself.  

A few months after the publication of his book, I had the chance to invite David up to Manchester, to join me in conversation for a live podcast, recorded at IndyManBeerCon (or, if you prefer, the Independent Manchester Beer Convention.) We chatted about Desi Pubs, the book itself, about bigger subjects such as the colour bar, and on David’s thoughts and approach to writing about beer and pubs in general.

We’re able to produce The Pellicle Podcast directly thanks to our Patreon subscribers, and our sponsors Loughran Brewers Select. If you’re enjoying this podcast, or the weekly articles we publish, please consider taking out a monthly subscription for less than the price of a pint a month.

Please note this is the second part of a two-part episode. Find part one, Episode 50, right here. 

There exists a curious tension at Roosters Brewing Company, one that few other breweries have to navigate in terms of both their identity, and their position within the UK beer market. 

On the one hand this is a resolutely contemporary brewery, creating modern IPAs as delicious and precise as the cask ales loved by locals it built its reputation upon. But there’s also the fact that this is a three-decade old brewery, with a considerable legacy established by its previous owner, Sean Franklin, and its flagship beer, Yankee. It’s a persistent problem, one that’s always snapping at the heels of twin brothers, Tom and Ol Fozard—the commercial director and head brewer, respectively—who took on this considerable stewardship when, along with their dad, Ian, they acquired the brewery in 2011.

Since the acquisition they have done their best to put their stamp on it, while also clinging to the story and substance that makes Roosters Brewery what it is today. They’ve achieved this through beers such as their best-selling IPA, Baby Faced Assassin, and by relocating the brewery from its original home in the town of Knaresborough to a new site, complete with an American-style taproom, on the outskirts of Harrogate, North Yorkshire. 

In 2023 they celebrated the brewery’s 30th birthday in style, holding a beer festival at the brewery called Suds With Buds. They were joined by contemporaries from both sides of the Atlantic, and ably demonstrated that this is a brewery that more than holds its weight within the highly competitive British beer market.

Please enjoy this bumper length interview with Tom and Ol, split into two parts for brevity. This is a candid, warts and all account of one of the UK’s most interesting breweries, and a fascinating look at one that is navigating an industry under so much pressure, as it continually seeks to define itself within it.

We’re able to produce The Pellicle Podcast directly thanks to our Patreon subscribers, and our sponsors Loughran Brewers Select. If you’re enjoying this podcast, or the weekly articles we publish, please consider taking out a monthly subscription for less than the price of a pint a month.

There exists a curious tension at Roosters Brewing Company, one that few other breweries have to navigate in terms of both their identity, and their position within the UK beer market. 

On the one hand this is a resolutely contemporary brewery, creating modern IPAs as delicious and precise as the cask ales loved by locals it built its reputation upon. But there’s also the fact that this is a three-decade old brewery, with a considerable legacy established by its previous owner, Sean Franklin, and its flagship beer, Yankee. It’s a persistent problem, one that’s always snapping at the heels of twin brothers, Tom and Ol Fozard—the commercial director and head brewer, respectively—who took on this considerable stewardship when, along with their dad, Ian, they acquired the brewery in 2011.

Since the acquisition they have done their best to put their stamp on it, while also clinging to the story and substance that makes Roosters Brewery what it is today. They’ve achieved this through beers such as their best-selling IPA, Baby Faced Assassin, and by relocating the brewery from its original home in the town of Knaresborough to a new site, complete with an American-style taproom, on the outskirts of Harrogate, North Yorkshire. 

In 2023 they celebrated the brewery’s 30th birthday in style, holding a beer festival at the brewery called Suds With Buds. They were joined by contemporaries from both sides of the Atlantic, and ably demonstrated that this is a brewery that more than holds its weight within the highly competitive British beer market.

Please enjoy this bumper length interview with Tom and Ol, split into two parts for brevity. This is a candid, warts and all account of one of the UK’s most interesting breweries, and a fascinating look at one that is navigating an industry under so much pressure, as it continually seeks to define itself within it.

We’re able to produce The Pellicle Podcast directly thanks to our Patreon subscribers, and our sponsors Loughran Brewers Select. If you’re enjoying this podcast, or the weekly articles we publish, please consider taking out a monthly subscription for less than the price of a pint a month.