The complicated legacy of Pope Francis — part reformer, part rule-breaker, and always hard to pin down.

Pope Francis changed the Catholic Church — but how far did he really go? In this episode of Complexified, Vatican reporter Claire Giangravè joins host Amanda Henderson to reflect on the legacy of Pope Francis. From his early image as a reformer to his efforts to include marginalized communities, we explore the tensions that defined his papacy. Plus, what actually happens when a pope dies — and how a new one is chosen.

00:00 Why Pope Francis Matters

01:52 A Reformer from the Start

03:50 Comfort in Chaos: COVID and Global Nationalism

05:09 LGBTQ+ Catholics and Vatican Politics

07:27 Synodality and Church Governance

09:10 How the Conclave Works

13:07 Language, Power, and Papal Politics

15:04 Divisions and the Future of Catholicism

17:03 Structure vs. Relational Religion