Nafees Hamid is a cognitive scientist of political violence who wrote an essay for New Lines Magazine on why people join violent groups. In this podcast with New Lines Magazine's Faisal Al Yafai, he discusses his essay, “The Neuroscience of ‘Devoted Actors’ Within Extremist Groups”, explores similarities between jihadists who joined ISIS and the insurrectionists who stormed the U.S. Capitol – and explains why neuroscience shows that a feeling of being excluded can change what people are willing to fight – and die – for.