Sacred Harp: A Living Tradition, with Thomas A. IveyWhat is Sacred Harp, and why are thousands of people still singing it every weekend? In this episode of Pursuit of Beauty, I talk with Tom Ivey, a shape-note singer for more than thirty years, a longtime member of the Charleston Sacred Harp singing (begun in 2008), and a composer whose tune "Blessed Road" appears in the new 2025 edition of The Sacred Harp.— RESOURCES MENTIONED —Sacred Harp Publishing Co.: http://sacredharp.comShenandoah Harmony: http://www.shenandoahharmony.comSacred Harp Bremen (part-by-part practice tracks): https://www.sacredharpbremen.orgSingings calendar & indexes: https://fasola.org— RECORDINGS USED —Excerpts are used for commentary and education, with thanks to the singers and those who recorded and shared them. If you're a creator and would like a clip removed or credited differently, please contact me and I'll take care of it right away.Stratfield142 (Texas Sacred Harp Singers)- 410t The Dying Californian – Young People's Convention, Austin TX, 2014 – https://youtu.be/DNDgfS8CBPw- What Wondrous Love – Henderson TX, 2012 – https://youtu.be/aRpV9H9ZpB0- 45t New Britain – Southwest Convention, McMahan TX, 2011 – https://youtu.be/uPOo4dOuPbQ- Bound for Canaan – Bethel Primitive Baptist Church, McMahan TX, 2012 – https://youtu.be/5FTVuNqEBh8- 501 That Beautiful Land – Bethel Primitive Baptist Church, McMahan TX, 2012 – https://youtu.be/xTbJ5axaUnA- 254 Rose of Sharon – Coker UMC, San Antonio TX, 2011 – https://youtu.be/u_afgYrZe9g- 178 Africa – Coker UMC, San Antonio TX – https://youtu.be/YZrO3P7AQOQ- 457 Wayfaring Stranger – https://youtu.be/-S-Mb8K6cE8PLBrayfield- 110 Mount Vernon – Missouri State Convention, 2014 – https://youtu.be/9LxmTypxn50- Jordan (Billings) – Missouri State Convention, 2018 – https://youtu.be/uK7u0loWB00- 236 Easter Anthem – Kalamazoo All-Day Singing, 2009 – https://youtu.be/_TgfhYsmGEQ- 284 Garden Hymn – Southern Wisconsin Singing, Dodgeville, 2011 – https://youtu.be/TKQb8PM0Au8RI Sacred Harp- 160b Turn, Sinner, Turn – Rhode Island All-Day Singing, 2019 – https://youtu.be/-BG4MkqzQlo- 163t Morning – Rhode Island All-Day Singing, 2017 – https://youtu.be/pCd1ShMg3tI- 414 Parting Friend – Rhode Island All-Day Singing, 2018 – https://youtu.be/AwUgBjRYGX0Secondmdus – Lloyd's Hymnbook, Mars Hill Primitive Baptist Church, Hoboken GA, 2007- O How Happy Are They – https://youtu.be/BCPsSnn07Hc- I Walked Abroad One Morning Fair – https://youtu.be/emb-xLtcSkUSacred Harp Museum- 493 Blessed Road (Thomas A. Ivey, 2010; © 2025 Sacred Harp Publishing Company) – 2025 Edition Debut Singing, Atlanta, 2025 – https://youtu.be/eEA9zZewSOkOther channels- 346 The American Star – Camp Fasola, 2024 – Esther Morgan-Ellis – https://youtu.be/DJ_4LQ98gzY- 155 Northfield – Henagar Union Convention, 2012 – Mrkyess1 – https://youtu.be/IjMLGGGwzaI- Angel's Hymn – Northern Shenandoah Valley Singing, 2014 – SuperDonkeyEars – https://youtu.be/B2pygw2_JJg- 326t We've No Abiding City Here (Shenandoah Harmony) – Lehigh Valley All-Day, 2016 – Rachel Hall – https://youtu.be/wnQ4heCBc60- Jacob's Vision – Germany Sacred Harp Convention, 2018, led by Georges Boboé – Sacred Harp Bremen – https://youtu.be/o2N095OV33w- Hail Smiling Morn (Spofforth) – The Marsh Warblers, West Gallery choir – bothybats1 – https://youtu.be/pcJz_oZfVVs- Gaelic Psalm singing, Psalm 122 – Rev. Jack Morrison, 1992 – Don Aldmor Rison – https://youtu.be/XXnqemuXVOc- Bill of Rights: First Amendment (Neely Bruce) – Rebecca Nurse Homestead, Danvers MA, 2016, dir. Tom Carmody – https://youtu.be/msJs4zvG8OwBostonSing Shapenote Resources- Piccolo Spoleto 2010 (Charleston) – https://www.bostonsing.org/recordings/piccolo-spoleto/- Vintage recordings – https://www.bostonsing.org/recordings/vintage-recordings/

Barry Rose OBE is one of the towering figures of Anglican church music. At ninety-two he looks back over sixty years at the heart of the English choral tradition, with warmth, humour and disarming candour. He built the choir of Guildford Cathedral from nothing at twenty-six, rebuilt the choir of St Paul's Cathedral as Sub-Organist and then Master of the Choir, trained the choristers who sang at the 1981 royal wedding, served as Master of the Music at St Albans Abbey, and produced BBC Radio's Choral Evensong for nearly twenty years. He studied organ with C. H. Trevor at the Royal Academy of Music, orchestrated Stainer's Crucifixion, and worked with Paul McCartney and Elton John along the way. This is a long, candid conversation about English cathedral choirs, boy choristers, church organ playing, Anglican chant, sacred music and what is happening to the tradition he helped build. We begin with the most pressing question in English church music: what is happening to the cathedral boy choir. Rose speaks plainly about mixed treble lines at St John's Cambridge, St George's Windsor, Hereford and Chichester, the case for separate boys' and girls' choirs on the Salisbury and Truro models, and what he believes is being lost. From there, how he actually trained choristers: why he never chased a manufactured "choral sound," letting each child sing with the voice they were given; probationers, humming, an hour on a single hymn; soft consonants and stopping the sound a millisecond before the D in "God." For Rose the words got there first and the music came later — the music is only a handmaid to bring the words alive. We discuss Anglican chant, Coverdale and the Book of Common Prayer, why the Creed should be said and not sung, and his definition of a descant: a decoration, never an annihilation. He takes us inside the choral establishment — Guildford's absorbent-plaster vault, relearning tempo for the echo of St Paul's, recording straight to stereo with no chance of repair, and why AI will give you a four-part choir but it won't have any soul. Then the stories: persuading McCartney to ring the choir school headmaster, clashing with Sir David Willcocks over descants at the royal wedding, and C. H. Trevor telling him he would never be a good organist — but would always be a good musician. Near the end he says, simply: "I'm at the end of my life, so I can say what I'd like really now."━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━CHAPTERS00:00 "The words got there first, the music came later"02:46 "That tradition is being killed off in the name of equality"13:06 The 20% tax closing England's choir schools15:33 Training boys versus girls — and the bus16:57 "You call a spade a shovel": rehearsing children honestly22:17 The silences between the notes — Laurence Olivier23:58 Founding the Guildford choir on chant and hymns alone27:39 Why the Creed should be said and not sung28:47 Guildford's absorbent plaster and the St Paul's echo37:37 Can AI make music? "It won't have any soul"45:00 Messiah: tempo, Jennens, and divine inspiration49:56 C. H. Trevor: "You'll never be a good organist"53:51 Paul McCartney, Elton John, and the choristers56:39 The royal wedding, Willcocks, and the descant58:31 How it ended at St Paul's1:03:10 The "holpen" story, and bright eyes in a voice trial1:07:17 The Responses everyone wrongly attributes to him1:14:51 "My favourite organ is the one I'm playing now"1:21:47 "A descant is a decoration, not an annihilation"1:32:33 Howells, Charles Wood, neglected composers1:44:48 The Road Home━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━#SacredMusic #ChoralMusic #AnglicanChurchMusic

Why does the same ancient chant melody sound completely different depending on which corner of Georgia you're standing in?

Musicologist John A. Graham returns for Part 2 of our exploration of **Georgian Orthodox chant**, this time going deep into the three great transcribed monastery schools: **Gelati, Shemokmedi, and Svetitskhoveli**. At the heart of Graham's research is a fascinating argument: the schools inherited essentially the same model melodies, but each region learned to harmonize and ornament them through the sound-world of its own **Georgian folk polyphony**. The chanters who sang in church were often the same master singers who performed at the feast table afterward, and the two traditions shaped one another over generations.

We explore the east–west divide created by the Likhi Range, the nearly lost chant tradition of Svaneti, whether Georgian congregations historically sang, the ninth chords of Gurian polyphony, voice crossing, the three levels of ornamentation, the ornamented middle voice of Vasil Karbelashvili, the musical "signatures" that let scholars identify individual chanters in manuscripts, and the controversy over whether Trio Mandili represents authentic Georgian folklore.

⏱ **CHAPTERS**

00:00 — Cold open: voice crossing, village singers, and Petritsi

03:46 — Welcome back

05:59 — Why the same chant sounds different across Georgia

08:29 — The published Georgian chant volumes

09:16 — Svaneti: a chant tradition almost lost forever

10:06 — Svetitskhoveli, Davit Gareja, and Bodbe

12:23 — The Likhi Range and Georgia's east–west divide

14:22 — Svaneti: slower, simpler, chordal chant

17:37 — Open fifths and the Svan sound

20:41 — Gelati: the "nest" of Georgian chant

26:01 — Melody, harmony, ornamentation: what actually differs?

28:53 — How master chanters ornamented a melody

31:03 — Did ordinary people sing in church?

34:05 — The Lord's Prayer and unornamented recitative

37:06 — Why great singers were village VIPs

46:13 — Ioane Petritsi, the Trinity, and three voices becoming one

47:06 — The east–west argument summarized

49:10 — Why Gelati harmony sounds different

50:40 — Shemokmedi and the ninth

54:09 — Gurian polyphony and the ninth chord

58:57 — Why Georgian singers deliberately seek dissonance

1:02:01 — Georgian tuning: 170 cents, not 200

1:04:58 — Georgian harmony works from the melody downward

1:08:28 — Octaves in eastern and western Georgian music

1:15:22 — Cadences across the three monastery schools

1:21:12 — How Vasil Karbelashvili built and ornamented a chant

1:24:06 — The individual style of master chanters

1:26:52 — Musical signatures: identifying a chanter by his hand

1:33:07 — Arakishvili and the ornaments notation left out

1:34:35 — How much should modern ensembles improvise?

1:38:34 — The Sakhioba Ensemble and the CD era

1:39:40 — Is Trio Mandili really Georgian folklore?

1:41:38 — The St. George troparion: my favorite chant

1:48:10 — Can the lost art of improvisation be revived?

🎼 **GUEST — JOHN A. GRAHAM**

Website: https://www.johnagraham.com

Georgian tours & chant resources: https://www.johngrahamtours.com

Georgian Chant: https://www.georgianchant.org

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV0vT4n6QKcbk6lAS1CSO9Q

📖 **DISSERTATION**

*The Transcription and Transmission of Georgian Liturgical Chant*

John A. Graham, Ph.D. dissertation, Princeton University, 2015

🎵 **MUSIC & FOOTAGE**

Chant recordings and video used by permission of John A. Graham. Filmed at Bana Monastery, Kintsvisi Monastery, and Ubisa.

Troparion to St. George performed by the Sakhioba Ensemble. Additional chant performed by the Anchiskhati Church Choir, directed by Malkhaz Erkvanidze.

Historical recordings include the Apolon Tsamtsishvili Choir (Tbilisi, 1903), Gigo Erkomaishvili Choir (Kutaisi, 1907), Samuel Chavleishvili Trio (Kutaisi, 1909), and Erkomaishvili brothers (1965).

Notation and photographs from Graham's dissertation, reproduced by permission.

#GeorgianChant #OrthodoxChant #SacredMusic

Is Coptic chant really 3,000 years old? Dr. Michael Henein set out to prove it — and his own experiment said no.Coptic Orthodox chant is often described as the last living echo of ancient Egyptian music, sung continuously since the time of the Pharaohs. Dr. Michael Henein decided to test that claim. With permission from the Cairo Museum, he had replicas made of ancient Egyptian flutes and asked a musician to play the responses of the Liturgy of St. Basil on them. The oldest flute produced exactly the scale the liturgy uses. It looked like proof — until he added a control group.In this conversation we go deep into how Coptic chant actually works: the maqam system underneath it, why the melodies function as icons rather than compositions, the century-long effort to notate an oral tradition that had never been written down, and what happened when thirteen shared Greek-texted responses were sung side by side by Coptic and Greek Orthodox cantors.Dr. Michael Henein is Professor of Cardiology at Imperial College London, the University of Siena, and the University of Nicosia; a sub-deacon at St. Mark's Coptic Orthodox Church, London; founder and director of the St. Kiril Coptic European Choir; and Executive Vice-Chancellor of the European Academy of Coptic Heritage.0:00 Every flute gave the same answer2:02 Meet Dr. Michael Henein2:39 From Handel's Messiah to a Coptic choir9:43 Greek words, Coptic melodies13:42 Why the whole congregation sings18:58 Instruments, the takht, and the liturgy20:39 Polyphony, Komitas, and hymns vs. songs28:41 Melody as icon: why nothing may change32:32 Inside the maqam: Huzam, Nahawand, and the ajnas40:45 Notating an oral tradition: Newlandsmith, Moftah, Tóth52:50 How old is Coptic chant, really?1:00:25 The flute experiment1:06:47 Which layers of the liturgy are oldest?1:10:46 Coptic and Greek: thirteen responses compared1:15:14 Ethiopian and Syriac parallels1:16:35 Cymbals, triangle, and rhythm1:20:12 What makes Coptic music unique1:27:04 Osama Fathi and the cadences that break the rules

Notre Dame architecture professor Duncan Stroik on why modern churches fail — and how to build sacred ones again.Stroik is the designer of Christ Chapel at Hillsdale College and the chapel at Thomas Aquinas College. In this interview he traces Catholic church architecture from the earliest basilicas to the traditional parish churches going up across America right now. If you've ever walked into a church that felt like an airplane hangar and wondered how we got here, this conversation is the answer.We start with what Catholic and Orthodox churches once shared: the rood screen and the iconostasis. Before the Renaissance, both East and West screened the altar — and Stroik walks through Torcello, San Marco in Venice, the stone screens of Naumburg Cathedral, and the screen still standing inside the Sistine Chapel to show how the West tore its screens out while the East made its own solid. Along the way: the ciborium and its curtains, the veil of the temple, and why recovering mystery may be the future of church design.Then the old fight: Gothic vs. classical architecture. Stroik has little patience for Pugin's claim that Gothic is the only Christian style — "somehow for 1,000, 1,200 years we didn't build in a Christian style, but suddenly they did" — and argues a Catholic architect must inherit all of it: Romanesque, Byzantine, Renaissance, Baroque. On modernist church architecture he is blunter: essentially iconoclastic, with no place in Catholic building. He also weighs in on the repainting of Chartres, the restoration of Notre-Dame de Paris, and Sacré-Cœur as Byzantine architecture in the West.On church restoration, his advice is concrete: spend the money on the sanctuary first — altar, tabernacle, flooring, altar rail — because the building teaches whether you meant it to or not. He describes the Cathedral of St. Joseph in Sioux Falls, the paint schemes that turned over every 25 years, and the 1975 low point when whole interiors went beige.And because a church is more than a building, we talk sacred music: Anglican Evensong and the Daily Office, why Germany fills organ recitals while America doesn't, French vs. German organ improvisation, and Stroik's own work designing organ cases. The interview closes with the Raffaella Ballet, commissioned in memory of his daughter, and her motto from Dostoevsky: beauty will save the world.Gothic or classical — where do you land? Say why in the comments. And subscribe for more long-form conversations on sacred architecture, liturgy, and church music.#SacredArchitecture #ChurchArchitecture #CatholicChurch #DuncanStroikCHAPTERS0:00 Hook2:42 Introduction3:14 Anglican Evensong and the Daily Office7:30 Columns, arches, and domes: Andrew Gould's question10:26 Rood screens and iconostasis: what East and West shared (Torcello)11:21 Sistine Chapel's forgotten screen — and the screens of Venice12:51 The veil of the temple: thresholds and the Holy of Holies16:54 Altar curtains, the ciborium, and the schola cantorum19:55 St. Francis at Greccio: the Franciscan paradox22:11 Sacrament houses: Nuremberg's giant tabernacle24:35 Why the choir moved behind29:43 Naumburg Cathedral's surviving stone screens32:14 Stained glass in America 38:24 Gothic vs. classical: Pugin, Ruskin, and Baltimore Cathedral42:35 Notre Dame's classical architecture47:20 Church paint schemes 51:13 Gothic darkness vs. Renaissance light53:14 The Chartres Cathedral repainting54:41 What Gothic architecture gave the Renaissance59:55 The confessional: a Borromeo invention1:01:39 Sacré-Cœur1:02:51 Church restoration1:07:31 Does traditional architecture cost more?1:09:29 America leads — Latin America and Africa 1:11:31 A Nigerian bishop, and churches that don't survive1:14:28 Organ culture: why Germany fills recitals1:17:15 French vs. German organ improvisation1:23:44 Organ case design1:27:22 New churches that give him hope1:30:05 The Raffaella Ballet1:33:45 "Beauty will save the world"

Herman Middleton joins me to discuss Orthodox Christianity, C.S. Lewis, the modern crisis of what it means to be human, Artificial Intelligcen, and the strange ways technology reshapes our souls, our communities, and even our understanding of salvation. Herman is the founder of The Protecting Veil and Gadfly Academy, and his work brings together Orthodox theology, patristic wisdom, media ecology, and a deep critique of the modern machine-shaped world.We explore Herman’s own conversion from high-church Anglicanism and evangelical circles into the Orthodox Church. He shares how Dostoevsky’s Brothers Karamazov, the beauty of Orthodox worship, Byzantine chant, and the early Church Fathers helped him realize that the Christian faith cannot be separated from the Church that preserved the Scriptures, the councils, the saints, and the living tradition of Christian worship.Herman discusses his doctoral dissertation on the theological anthropology and cosmology of C.S. Lewis, including Lewis’s vision of the human person, the importance of the Incarnation, the prophetic power of The Abolition of Man and That Hideous Strength, and why so many Orthodox converts have found Lewis to be a gateway into deeper Christian tradition.We also talk about the question at the heart of the modern world: Are human beings special, or are we merely biological machines to be upgraded, optimized, and eventually replaced? This leads into a discussion of transhumanism, artificial intelligence, technology, efficiency, the image of God, and the difference between human values and machine values. Herman argues that much of our cultural confusion comes from the fact that we no longer know what a human being is.Finally, Herman explains the mission behind Gadfly Academy, his interest in writers like Wendell Berry, Neil Postman, Marshall McLuhan, Walter Ong, Jacques Ellul, Ivan Illich, Philip Sherrard, Fr. Seraphim Rose, Paul Kingsnorth, Christopher Alexander, Jane Jacobs, and others who have critiqued the modern technological world. We discuss media ecology, television, the printing press, the telegraph, the internet, anti-machine thinking, and how modern technology changes not only what we do, but what we are.Chapters02:30 Introducing Herman Middleton02:39 Precious Vessels of the Holy Spirit06:50 How Orthodox language differs from Protestant language09:42 Herman’s journey from Anglicanism to Orthodoxy11:18 Dostoevsky, Elder Zosima, and encountering true Christianity12:45 Beauty, Byzantine chant, and Orthodox worship15:30 Studying theology in Thessaloniki16:39 Herman’s doctoral work on C.S. Lewis17:46 C.S. Lewis, anthropology, cosmology, and Orthodoxy20:27 Human values versus machine values21:00 Community, beauty, goodness, truth, love, and trust22:16 What C.S. Lewis gets right from an Orthodox perspective24:17 The Incarnation, salvation, and Narnia25:22 C.S. Lewis and St. Athanasius’ On the Incarnation27:56 That Hideous Strength and Lewis’s prophetic vision30:05 C.S. Lewis and Dostoevsky as “gateway drugs” to Orthodoxy30:52 Wendell Berry as America’s answer to C.S. Lewis34:28 Interviewing Vladimir Pleshakov36:40 What is The Protecting Veil?37:00 The miracle of the Theotokos’ protecting veil40:42 Fr. Thomas Hopko, Fr. Stephen Freeman, and early YouTube interviews43:25 Ancient Faith, monasteries, St. Vladimir’s, and Orthodox voices44:35 Interviewing Orthodox poets, bishops, and theologians47:36 The difficulty of making a living as a creator48:19 Why Herman started Gadfly Academy50:05 Technology, society, and the Orthodox spiritual life53:20 Media ecology, Neil Postman, and Marshall McLuhan54:25 How technology creates a new world56:00 The telegraph, the internet, and the speed of information59:13 Gadfly Academy’s “How Did We Get Here?” reading list59:38 Wendell Berry, Jacques Ellul, Ivan Illich, and anti-machine writers1:00:20 Recovering a human and spiritual life in the modern world

Armenian chant, Armenian church music, and the ancient sacred music of the Armenian Apostolic Church are at the center of this conversation with master singer and musicologist, Aram Kerovpyan, one of the world’s leading voices on Armenian liturgical chant. Recommended to me by Tigran Hamasyan, Aram speaks with rare honesty about the survival, decline, and possible renewal of Armenian sacred music, from the modal chant tradition to the impact of genocide, Westernization, the organ, polyphonic choirs, Komitas, and the disappearing role of the master singer.This is a conversation about much more than music. It is about memory, worship, trauma, transmission, and whether a sacred tradition can survive once the living chain of singers has been broken. Aram explains why Armenian chant cannot be reduced to notes on a page, why equal temperament changes the spiritual and musical character of chant, and why true modal music must be felt in the body before it can be understood intellectually.We discuss the controversial place of the organ in Armenian church music, and Aram does not soften his opinion. For him, the organ does not merely accompany Armenian chant. It changes the nature of the music itself. This leads into a larger discussion of Orientalism, Westernization, and the assumption that ancient modal traditions need to be “improved” through harmony, polyphony, or European musical categories.Aram also reflects on the tragedy of Armenian history and the devastating cultural consequences of the Armenian Genocide. When monasteries, churches, communities, singers, manuscripts, and oral traditions are destroyed, the question is no longer simply “what did Armenian chant sound like?” but whether the world that produced that sound can ever fully be recovered.We also talk about Komitas, one of the most important and beloved figures in Armenian music. Aram offers a nuanced view of Komitas as a collector, composer, musicologist, and cultural icon, while also asking difficult questions about harmonization, Europeanization, trauma, and myth. Did Komitas save Armenian music? Did he transform it? Can both things be true?Other topics include Armenian modal music, the Armenian Octoechos, drones, natural intervals, Limonjian notation, khaz notation, the difference between oral and written transmission, the role of the master singer, the decline of traditional chant education, regional variants in Armenian chant, Gregory of Narek, the Book of Lamentations, and what it would actually take to preserve this sacred tradition for future generations.This is one of the most profound conversations I have had about Christian sacred music, not because it gives easy answers, but because it forces us to ask what we are willing to lose in the name of progress, beauty, convenience, or “civilization.” Armenian chant is not simply an old musical style. It is a way of praying, remembering, listening, and inhabiting a Christian tradition that has survived almost unimaginable suffering.

In this conversation, I speak with artist Daniel Mitsui about sacred art, medieval manuscripts, Gothic symbolism, calligraphy, typography, Japanese woodblock prints, relics, pilgrimage, and the lost visual imagination of Christian civilization. Mitsui is a professional artist known for extraordinarily detailed religious ink drawings that continue the traditions of medieval Gothic art while also drawing from Celtic, Persian, and Japanese influences.Daniel's website: https://www.danielmitsui.com/ We discuss what makes Gothic art different from modern religious art, why illuminated manuscripts and Books of Hours became such powerful devotional objects, and how medieval artists filled the world with symbolic order. Daniel explains his use of calfskin, goatskin, ink, calligraphy, ornament, and traditional materials, as well as the way his work attempts to recover a visual language rooted in the Christian imagination.The conversation also moves into the strange and fascinating history of printmaking. Daniel tells the story of pilgrim mirrors, medieval relics, and the surprising connection between pilgrimage, sacred images, and Gutenberg’s printing press. He explains how the printing press can be understood as conceptually related to the medieval desire to carry home contact with a holy original. We also talk about typography, blackletter, Lombardic capitals, Hildegard of Bingen’s unknown language, Tolkien, Coptic letters, Spencerian handwriting, and Daniel’s own typefaces. Along the way, we explore why letters are not merely functional marks on a page, but can become works of beauty, symbolism, and devotion.Later in the conversation, Daniel explains the Japanese influence in his work, especially ukiyo-e woodblock prints, samurai imagery, St. Michael, Kuniyoshi, Hiroshige, Yoshitoshi, and the way Japanese art taught him new ways to compose figures without relying on shadows. This is a conversation about sacred art, but also about much more: the recovery of beauty, the meaning of symbolism, the relationship between tradition and originality, and whether modern people can learn to see again.📩 Subscribe to the Pursuit of Beauty Substack: https://substack.com/@UCPo3842Pl_Z3Xqo9GYACUzw 🔔 Subscribe and hit the bell so you don't miss new episodesmy website: https://matthewwilkinson.net/my Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/MatthewWilkinsonMusic00:00 Pilgrim Mirrors, Relics, and the Origins of Printing03:11 Introducing Daniel Mitsui03:34 Medieval Art, Sacred Detail, and Gothic Tradition06:38 Why 15th-Century Manuscripts Matter08:41 Ink, Gold Leaf, Tempera, and Medieval Materials11:08 Calfskin, Goatskin, Bristol Board, and Vellum15:58 Calligraphy, Childhood, and Learning Letterforms17:31 The Paradexion Tree18:13 Drawing Letters Instead of Writing Them19:16 Altar Cards, Latin Mass, and Designing a Typeface23:14 Benedict: Daniel Mitsui’s First Typeface26:34 Lombardic Capitals and Medieval Display Letters29:34 Tolkien, Bastarda Script, and Medieval Italics32:48 Millefleur, The Lady and the Unicorn, and Symbolic Ornament38:54 Becoming a Full-Time Artist39:58 Serif, Sans Serif, and the Meaning of Letterforms47:09 Coptic Letters and Ancient Scripts49:09 Hildegard of Bingen’s Unknown Language53:16 The Dream of a Daniel Mitsui Book of Hours57:19 Originals, Prints, Reproductions, and Sacred Art1:03:43 Gutenberg, Relics, and Pilgrim Mirrors1:08:48 Spencerian Penmanship and Fanciful Letters1:10:57 Japanese Art, Ukiyo-e, and St. Michael as Samurai1:15:33 How Japanese Art Changed His Christian Art1:18:28 Seeing Without Shadows1:22:37 Celtic Art, The Book of Kells, and Insular Manuscripts1:31:27 Celtic Influence in Daniel’s Work1:33:22 Christ in Majesty, Blood, and the Tetramorph1:36:36 King of Kings and Lord of Lords1:37:54 AI Art, Handmade Art, and the Future of Artists1:47:15 Persian Influence and Mixing Artistic Traditions1:49:03 Closing

What happens when a meal becomes something sacred?In this conversation, Matthew Wilkinson sits down with John Heers of First Things Foundation to explore the ancient Georgian tradition of the Supra: a feast built around wine, poetry, hospitality, storytelling, beauty, memory, and human communion. What begins as a discussion about Georgian culture slowly becomes something much deeper: a meditation on why modern people feel spiritually exhausted, emotionally isolated, and disconnected from one another.John Heers shares the story of how traveling to the country of Georgia transformed his life forever. Living among Georgians in the aftermath of civil war, he encountered a radically different vision of human life centered around hospitality, vulnerability, reverence, sacrifice, and shared meals. In the Georgian Supra tradition, the “Tamada” or toastmaster guides the table through hours of poetry, tears, remembrance, philosophy, celebration, and reflection. The words are for the wine, and the wine is for the words.Matthew and John discuss beauty, nihilism, materialism, masculinity, Christianity, and the modern crisis of meaning. They explore why the modern West struggles with loneliness and spiritual hunger despite unprecedented wealth and technology. Drawing from Orthodox Christianity, C.S. Lewis, symbolism, philosophy, liturgy, and lived experience, they ask whether modern life has forgotten something essential about being human.The conversation also explores martyrdom, suffering, and witness through the story of the 21 Coptic martyrs killed by ISIS in Libya. Rather than treating faith as ideology or argument alone, Matthew and John discuss how beauty, courage, sacrifice, and love draw people toward truth in ways that abstract apologetics often cannot. The discussion touches on tears, weddings, funerals, music, repentance, and why modern culture often fears vulnerability and sincerity.John Heers also explains the mission of First Things Foundation and its unusual approach to international aid and mission work. Instead of imposing Western systems onto foreign cultures, First Things Foundation emphasizes becoming good guests: learning local languages, honoring local traditions, living simply, and empowering local communities from within. Stories from Georgia, Mozambique, Sierra Leone, Guatemala, and Orthodox Christian history all become part of a larger conversation about hospitality, communion, and the search for meaning.This interview will resonate with viewers interested in Orthodox Christianity, Anglicanism, Jonathan Pageau, Symbolic World, David Bentley Hart, Christian philosophy, beauty and meaning, the meaning crisis, ancient Christianity, hospitality culture, traditional societies, liturgy, symbolism, Georgian culture, masculinity, modern loneliness, anti-materialism, and the spiritual problems of modern life.If you enjoyed this conversation, please like, subscribe, and share the video. Let us know in the comments: Has the modern world forgotten how to feast, how to commune, and how to truly live together?Feast image in thumbnail: Creator: Makho KipshidzeCopyright: Makho Kipshidze PhotographyPhoto by Irma Sharikadze. Owner by Levan Qoqiashvili

02:28 – “The Words Are for the Wine”
03:41 – The 21 Coptic Martyrs
05:12 – Beauty vs Nihilism
06:45 – Discovering Georgia
09:02 – What Is a Supra?
15:02 – Hyperbole and Poetry
18:20 – Cultural Appropriation, Love, and Beauty
25:15 – Masculinity, Vulnerability, and Tears
29:08 – The Structure
33:21 – The Tamada
38:02 – Americans Don’t Know How
41:17 – John Heers’ Conversion to Orthodoxy
45:06 – His Brother
50:12 – First Things Foundation
58:41 – Orthodox Mission Work vs Modern Aid
01:03:14 – The Story of the 21 Martyrs of Libya
01:07:03 – Why Beauty Converts People More Than Arguments
01:10:55 – Materialism, Meaning, and the Crisis of Modernity
01:15:02 – “The Only Thing You Can Do Alone Is Go to Hell”
01:18:40 – We Were Never Meant to Live Like This

Deacon Mihret Melaku is an Ethiopian Orthodox deacon, host of the Burning Bush Podcast, and author of Defending the Ancient Faith. In this conversation we explore the full breadth of Ethiopian Orthodox Christianity — its theology, its extraordinary sacred music system, its deep roots in Second Temple Judaism, and its living traditions of liturgical poetry.Burning Bush podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@UCKL74lcBHGYh2Xwsz8X68Nw Dcn. Mihret's book: https://www.defendingancientfaith.com/We begin with theology: how Ethiopian Orthodoxy understands salvation as ontological transformation rather than forensic transaction, the church's relationship to the divine energies tradition, and what makes the Axumite school of exegesis its own distinct synthesis of Alexandrian allegory and Antiochian typology. Deacon Mihret explains the Andimta commentary tradition — Ethiopia's uniquely narrative approach to scripture, which draws on hagiographic oral traditions to build midrashic-style stories around biblical events, including the extraordinary story of the man with the withered hand.A major thread of the conversation is Ethiopian Orthodoxy's relationship to Judaism. Deacon Mihret makes the case that the Ethiopian church is the most faithful continuity of Second Temple Judaism in Christendom — preserving the books of Enoch and Jubilees, keeping Saturday as the first Sabbath, maintaining circumcision and kosher practice, and tracing its Levitical vestments to the priesthood of ancient Israel. We work through four competing theories of how Judaism entered Ethiopia, centered on the Kebra Nagast and the Queen of Sheba narrative.The second half focuses on the sacred music system — one of the most complex liturgical music traditions in the world. We cover the structure of Aqwaqwam, the three-hour Divine Liturgy and the pre-liturgical vigils that can last 12–15 hours, the three modes (Ge'ez, Izl, and Araray) and their tonal relationship to the pentatonic scale, and the Ge'ez poetry tradition with its "wax and gold" (sem ena worq) double-meaning structure and three schools of poetic composition (Washara, Wadla, and Gonj). Deacon Mihret explains what a full certification path looks like — roughly 14 years across Aqwaqwam, Digwa, and Zimmari — and why even a scholar in his 60s considers himself still a student.We close on the question of Eucharistic frequency — Deacon Mihret explains why the widespread practice of Ethiopian Orthodox laypeople not receiving communion is a historical aberration contradicted by Apostolic Canon 9, which is actually chanted at the opening of every Divine Liturgy as a rebuke to non-communicants, and what the canons actually require for worthy reception.