The Recovery Room with Jackie Baxter

I talk with Marisa Renee Lee about Long Covid, identity, and what it takes to endure a season where answers are slow and uncertainty is constant. We explore grey grief, reality based hope, and the practical choices that help us keep moving towards healing even on the hardest days. 

• Getting ill after being highly capable and reliable 
• Rewriting a book when life flips the premise 
• Authenticity when capacity shrinks and priorities shift 
• Defining identity through values rather than job titles 
• Learning from a parent’s long illness and lasting impact 
• Naming “grey grief” as the grief of uncertainty 
• Holding hope without denying pain or setbacks 
• Firing dismissive healthcare providers and seeking better care 
• Finding hope through community and recovery stories 
• Combining modalities like prescriptions, supplements, acupuncture, and therapy 
• Taking tiny baby steps and focusing on consistent basics 

WAITING FOR DAWN: LIVING WITH UNCERTAINTY
https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/marisa-renee-lee/waiting-for-dawn/9781538770191/

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For more information about Long Covid Breathing courses & workshops, please check out LongCovidBreathing.com

(music credit - Brock Hewitt, Rule of Life)

Support the show

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thankyou for joining me in The Recovery Room. If you found this episode useful & are able to, you can support the show by buying me a coffee or checking out the merch

Visit The Recovery Room website: www.JackiesRecoveryRoom.com 

Follow me on social media channels: @JackiesRecoveryRoom

**Disclaimer - you should not rely on any medical information contained in this Podcast and related materials in making medical, health-related or other decisions. Please consult a doctor or other health professional**

I sit down with Dr Mel Houser to rethink neurodiversity as a normal fact of human life and to name how shame, masking, and burnout can build when the world expects one way of being. We connect those realities to Long Covid and ME/CFS, showing how access needs, cognitive pacing, and community support can change what recovery and participation look like. 

• Neurodiversity as the full range of human brains, not a rare exception 
• Why “one size fits all” environments create struggle and shame 
• Autistic burnout, loss of tolerance to stimuli, and loss of skills 
• Masking as a survival strategy and what happens when it collapses 
• Universal design in healthcare, offering choices proactively for everyone 
• Access needs as a practical way to support full participation 
• Cognitive pacing and balancing physical, cognitive, emotional and orthostatic energy 
• Dopamine, regulation, and why illness disrupts protein, hydration, movement and sleep 
• PEM-aware approaches and avoiding harmful graded exercise advice 
• Patterns in complex chronic illness where treatments can backfire 
• The double empathy problem and communication gaps in healthcare 
• Resources from All Brains Belong Vermont including toolkits, Brain Club and the book 

Links:

• Everything is Connected to Everything: Improving the Healthcare of Autistic & ADHD Adults: https://allbrainsbelong.org/all-the-things 
• Free community programs and educational resources: https://allbrainsbelong.org/get-connected
• A Failure of Imagination: How the Healthcare System Fails Neurodivergent People--And What We're Doing Instead: https://allbrainsbelong.org/book
• Brain Club® (free virtual community education program): https://allbrainsbelong.org/brain-club
• Universal Design Toolkit for Healthcare, Workplaces & Community Events: https://allbrainsbelong.org/universal-design-menus/
  
  

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For more information about Long Covid Breathing courses & workshops, please check out LongCovidBreathing.com

(music credit - Brock Hewitt, Rule of Life)

Support the show

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thankyou for joining me in The Recovery Room. If you found this episode useful & are able to, you can support the show by buying me a coffee or checking out the merch

Visit The Recovery Room website: www.JackiesRecoveryRoom.com 

Follow me on social media channels: @JackiesRecoveryRoom

**Disclaimer - you should not rely on any medical information contained in this Podcast and related materials in making medical, health-related or other decisions. Please consult a doctor or other health professional**

I'm joined by Fatigue Coach Pamela Rose as we dig into why pacing feels so hard and why “energy management” is a better, more practical way to think about it. We share how to find a steadier baseline, account for cognitive and emotional load, and start increasing activity without tipping into PEM.

• Defining pacing as shaping the day around available energy
• Prioritising needs and wants over ‘shoulds’
• Using consistency to create capacity for healing
• Learning the nuance behind physical, cognitive, emotional and social exertion
• When wearables and apps help and when they backfire
• Spotting early warning signs and adjusting before a crash
• Reverse pacing and safe, gradual activity increases
• Pacing the week, planning around appointments and hormone shifts
• Making progress with kids or caring responsibilities by optimising what you can

Links: 

• Work with Pamela: https://pamelarose.podia.com 

Use voucher code 'LCPOD' to get 33% off the full price of 'Fatigue Reset: how to crack pacing once and for all!' course.

• Our first episode on "Difficult Conversations" https://www.buzzsprout.com/1835170/episodes/14502430

Message me! (I can't reply to these messages)

For more information about Long Covid Breathing courses & workshops, please check out LongCovidBreathing.com

(music credit - Brock Hewitt, Rule of Life)

Support the show

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thankyou for joining me in The Recovery Room. If you found this episode useful & are able to, you can support the show by buying me a coffee or checking out the merch

Visit The Recovery Room website: www.JackiesRecoveryRoom.com 

Follow me on social media channels: @JackiesRecoveryRoom

**Disclaimer - you should not rely on any medical information contained in this Podcast and related materials in making medical, health-related or other decisions. Please consult a doctor or other health professional**

Chris Sykes-Popham shares how he goes from an adventurous Royal Marines career into a brutal ME/CFS crash, then back to full recovery and a life rebuilt around balance and self-trust. We explore perfectionism, invisible illness, and why nervous system regulation can feel like the least popular answer yet still be the most practical path forward. 

• Early warning signs like post-exertional payback and brain fog 
• Losing a former identity and rebuilding meaning after recovery 
• Balance as a daily check for kindness and sustainability 
• Extreme striving and the hidden costs of perfectionism 
• Gender, emotional expression, and the pressure of invisible illness 
• Responsibility versus blame and finding agency again 
• Openness, curiosity, and why timing matters for mind-body work 
• Nervous system regulation as a common thread in recovery stories 
• Studying the recovered and looking for repeatable trends 
• Testing the nervous system theory symptom by symptom 

We would love to continue this conversation - or have the one we originally planned - so please do get in touch with thoughts, questions & scepticism! 

Links: 

• Try Freeme FREE for 6 sessions  https://freemehealth.com/getfreeme
• CONNECT WITH CHRIS:
  Website — https://freemehealth.com/getfreeme
  Instagram —   / the.freeme.app  

Message me! (I can't reply to these messages)

For more information about Long Covid Breathing courses & workshops, please check out LongCovidBreathing.com

(music credit - Brock Hewitt, Rule of Life)

Support the show

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thankyou for joining me in The Recovery Room. If you found this episode useful & are able to, you can support the show by buying me a coffee or checking out the merch

Visit The Recovery Room website: www.JackiesRecoveryRoom.com 

Follow me on social media channels: @JackiesRecoveryRoom

**Disclaimer - you should not rely on any medical information contained in this Podcast and related materials in making medical, health-related or other decisions. Please consult a doctor or other health professional**

I talk with Heather Wilde, a doctor of physical therapy, about why Long Covid and ME/CFS symptoms can be downstream of blocked drainage and disrupted nervous system signalling rather than a single “broken” part. We follow her plumber and electrician framework from real client stories into craniosacral therapy, inflammation, and why hope often returns when someone finally finds the true restriction. 

• Heather’s hands-on manual therapy approach and why she keeps expanding her toolkit 
• A personal recovery story after decades of ME/CFS and what changed 
• The plumber mindset for fluid flow and the hidden source of symptoms 
• The electrician mindset for nerves, especially the vagus nerve and gut function 
• A case study where a neck restriction links to GI pain and hyperventilation 
• How covid-related inflammation can lock down the head and thorax 
• Lymphatic drainage, sympathetic regulation and the Perrin theory in plain language 
• Why breathwork and manual therapy are hard to research yet powerful in practice 
• What craniosacral therapy is anatomically and what “dura restrictions” mean 
• Touch, listening and rebuilding a healthy relationship with the body 

Links:

• Connect with Heather: thewildeclinic.com 
• The Perrin Technique: theperrintechnique.com 
• My interview with Dr Perrin: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1835170/episodes/16397354

Message me! (I can't reply to these messages)

For more information about Long Covid Breathing courses & workshops, please check out LongCovidBreathing.com

(music credit - Brock Hewitt, Rule of Life)

Support the show

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thankyou for joining me in The Recovery Room. If you found this episode useful & are able to, you can support the show by buying me a coffee or checking out the merch

Visit The Recovery Room website: www.JackiesRecoveryRoom.com 

Follow me on social media channels: @JackiesRecoveryRoom

**Disclaimer - you should not rely on any medical information contained in this Podcast and related materials in making medical, health-related or other decisions. Please consult a doctor or other health professional**

Dan Neuffer and I explore authentic living as a practical way to honour our needs without abandoning responsibility, and why that balance matters even more when we are unwell. We look at how fear, perfectionism, and people-pleasing create inner conflict, drain our energy, and can keep our nervous system stuck in threat. 

• Defining authentic living as self-honouring with balance 
• Why constant selflessness can become self-neglect 
• How childhood patterns and social approval shape our “shoulds” 
• Telltale signs of inauthentic living such as resentment and emotion management 
• The link between internal conflict, safety, and chronic illness recovery such as Long Covid and ME/CFS 
• Perfectionism, social media pressure, and the fear of judgement 
• Practical steps: honesty with ourselves, clearer communication, and boundaries 
• Choosing small wins over drastic decisions to create lasting change 

Connect with Dan: 

• CFS Recovery Stories: https://cfsunravelled.com/me-cfs-recovery-stories-patient-me-cfs-stories-with-a-difference/      
• ANS REWIRE Free Lessons:  https://ansrewire.com/info-request/ 

Connect with Jackie: 

• The Recovery Room website: https://www.jackiesrecoveryroom.com/ 
• Breathing Classes: https://longcovidbreathing.com/ 

Message me! (I can't reply to these messages)

For more information about Long Covid Breathing courses & workshops, please check out LongCovidBreathing.com

(music credit - Brock Hewitt, Rule of Life)

Support the show

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thankyou for joining me in The Recovery Room. If you found this episode useful & are able to, you can support the show by buying me a coffee or checking out the merch

Visit The Recovery Room website: www.JackiesRecoveryRoom.com 

Follow me on social media channels: @JackiesRecoveryRoom

**Disclaimer - you should not rely on any medical information contained in this Podcast and related materials in making medical, health-related or other decisions. Please consult a doctor or other health professional**

I explore breath as a practical healing tool, especially when breathlessness, air hunger, or panic keeps the body stuck in survival mode. I share why “appropriate breathwork” is gentle, flexible, and powerful enough to support both recovery and everyday health. 

• Why breathing patterns change during illness and can stay dysfunctional afterwards 
• The vicious cycle where breath discomfort signals danger and escalates symptoms 
• How better breathing supports efficiency and frees energy for healing and life 
• Nervous system regulation through functional breathing and micro moments of safety 
• Why a one-size-fits-all protocol can backfire and what “meet yourself where you are” looks like 
• What to avoid in recovery, including deliberate hyperventilation and breath holds 
• Easing into practices, adjusting dose, and using breath to support pacing and emotions 
• Resources for safe breathwork including courses, blogs, videos, and Insight Timer tracks 

Links: 

• Breathing for Long Covid & ME/CFS breathing courses: www.LongCovidBreathing.com 
• Breathing blogs: https://longcovidbreathing.com/blogs 
• Breathe with me on Insight Timer: https://insig.ht/mqSr1s0245b (or search "Jackie Baxter" on the app
• More info about working with me: www.JackiesRecoveryRoom.com/WorkWithMe 

Message me! (I can't reply to these messages)

Support the show

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thankyou for joining me in The Recovery Room. If you found this episode useful & are able to, you can support the show by buying me a coffee or checking out the merch

Visit The Recovery Room website: www.JackiesRecoveryRoom.com 

Follow me on social media channels: @JackiesRecoveryRoom

**Disclaimer - you should not rely on any medical information contained in this Podcast and related materials in making medical, health-related or other decisions. Please consult a doctor or other health professional**

In part two of Jackie’s conversation with physiotherapist and Long Covid patient Robin McNelis (“Robin the Physio”), they dig into how heart rate monitors and wearables can support (or sabotage) pacing in Long Covid and ME/CFS. Robin shares both clinical and personal examples of using tech as a behaviour-change tool, not a dictator, and how it can help people eventually trust their bodies more, not less.

In This Episode:

• When heart rate monitoring is helpful and when it becomes stressful and counterproductive
• Robin’s concept of “counterintuitive” heart rate monitoring and why some people need to start with higher alert thresholds
• Real-life examples of unexpected triggers (like showering, stairs, and bending) and how tiny tweaks made big differences
• Using devices first to learn your boundaries, then turning down or off alerts to lean more on body awareness
• How to decide if tech is right for you right now: What is it helping you change? Is it reducing crashes or just adding pressure?

Key Takeaways

• Tech is optional: it’s the right tool for the right person, at the right time, in the right way.
• The goal isn’t perfect data—it’s better awareness, steadier pacing, and fewer boom-and-bust crashes.

Links:

More about Robin: http://www.robinthephysio.co.uk 

Check out Part 1 of this discussion: 223 - Holistic Detective Work: Unpicking Breath, Pacing & Fatigue with Robin the Physio 

Message me! (I can't reply to these messages)

For more information about Long Covid Breathing courses & workshops, please check out LongCovidBreathing.com

(music credit - Brock Hewitt, Rule of Life)

Support the show

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thankyou for joining me in The Recovery Room. If you found this episode useful & are able to, you can support the show by buying me a coffee or checking out the merch

Visit The Recovery Room website: www.JackiesRecoveryRoom.com 

Follow me on social media channels: @JackiesRecoveryRoom

**Disclaimer - you should not rely on any medical information contained in this Podcast and related materials in making medical, health-related or other decisions. Please consult a doctor or other health professional**

Jackie is joined by Robin McNelis (Robin the Physio), a cardio‑respiratory physio and Long Covid specialist, who went from running marathons and leading hospital services to his own Long Covid recovery journey.

In this episode:

• What happens when all your tests are “normal” but you’re clearly not.
• Robin’s role as a “holistic detective” for complex breathing, fatigue and Long Covid cases.
• How ideas from elite sport and marginal gains translate to people just trying to shower or get to the bathroom without crashing.
• The reality of post‑Covid personal bests and why “small” wins matter.
• A practical, compassionate look at pacing across physical, cognitive, emotional and social exertion, using the FITT principles.
• Real‑life stories of patients reclaiming reading, hobbies and daily life through tiny, well‑timed adjustments.

This is Part 1 of the conversation - hear part 2 for more on pacing, heart rate, breathing, and tools to support recovery.

Links:

More about Robin: http://www.robinthephysio.co.uk

Message me! (I can't reply to these messages)

For more information about Long Covid Breathing courses & workshops, please check out LongCovidBreathing.com

(music credit - Brock Hewitt, Rule of Life)

Support the show

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thankyou for joining me in The Recovery Room. If you found this episode useful & are able to, you can support the show by buying me a coffee or checking out the merch

Visit The Recovery Room website: www.JackiesRecoveryRoom.com 

Follow me on social media channels: @JackiesRecoveryRoom

**Disclaimer - you should not rely on any medical information contained in this Podcast and related materials in making medical, health-related or other decisions. Please consult a doctor or other health professional**

I talk with clinical psychologist Dr Jake Hollis about recovering from ME/CFS and Long Covid, and why the nervous system offers a more useful frame than the tired “mind versus body” argument. We explore how validation, language, and recovery stories can shift the brain’s predictions and open up real possibilities for change. 

• Jake’s lived experience of long-term illness and a slow recovery path 
• How neuroplastic recovery therapies fit alongside biology rather than replacing it 
• Why recovery stories can create a visceral nervous system shift 
• The harm caused when recovered people are disbelieved or silenced 
• How the mind body divide shows up in healthcare systems and culture 
• Biomarkers, legitimacy, and why absence of a test is not absence of illness 
• Mental health stigma as a hidden driver of conflict and miscommunication 
• Emotional suppression, shame, and “keep calm and carry on” conditioning 
• Blame versus responsibility as a more compassionate recovery framework 

Links:

More about Jake: www.fatiguepsychologist.com
Unlearn Your Pain in the US and in the UK
Howard Schubiner chats to Rangan Chatterjee

Message me! (I can't reply to these messages)

For more information about Long Covid Breathing courses & workshops, please check out LongCovidBreathing.com

(music credit - Brock Hewitt, Rule of Life)

Support the show

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thankyou for joining me in The Recovery Room. If you found this episode useful & are able to, you can support the show by buying me a coffee or checking out the merch

Visit The Recovery Room website: www.JackiesRecoveryRoom.com 

Follow me on social media channels: @JackiesRecoveryRoom

**Disclaimer - you should not rely on any medical information contained in this Podcast and related materials in making medical, health-related or other decisions. Please consult a doctor or other health professional**