The Retirement Wisdom Podcast

Do you have an encore career in you? An interest you've always wanted to pursue, if only you had the time? Maybe you've dreamed of becoming an author in your second career. Our guest, Jim Hockenberry, retired from a successful corporate career at 55 and did just that, writing not one book, but three. He's the author of an award-winning historical fiction trilogy.

Jim joins us from Princeton, New Jersey.

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Bio

James Hockenberry, of Princeton, NJ, grew up in Bronxville, just outside of NYC. Bronxville is featured in a chapter of his first thriller, Over Here. James has authored an award-winning "World War One Intrigue Series". The historical fiction series interweaves three of his long-time passions: history, literature, and his German-American roots. He has lectured locally on World War One, including at the State Library in Trenton and the Princeton Present Day Club. A career financial executive, with degrees from Lafayette College and Columbia University, he began as a CPA with Ernst & Young. After moving to W. R. Grace, they transferred him to their European Headquarters in Lausanne, Switzerland where he lived for 15 years. He returned to the US, put his financial career behind him, and began to research history and write thrillers. For the last fifteen years, he has run the Princeton Chapter of the Financial Network Group (FENG) with over 2,200 members.

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Wise Quotes

On Becoming an Author as a Second Act

"Well, let me just say first, it's not really a question of how I did it, but why it took so long. I had a successful and rewarding business career coming out of graduate school and that took me to age 55. At that point, I was financially secure and I wanted to adjust my life and balance priorities. I had always wanted to write a book. So I made the change from a financial executive to a writer and I never looked back. So I never really walked away from my financial career. What I would rather say is it reached a natural conclusion and I moved in a different direction. One of your guests in the past (Dr. Barbara O'Neill) has talked about the term, FIND - F-I-N-D - Financial Independence, New Directions - and that's what I've done. But I like to use the term re-tire (re- dash- tire). What I mean by that is you put four new tires on your car, and drive off to your future life."

On Networking

"And I would say if there's a motto for networking, it's 'What goes around, comes around.'  Somebody helps somebody, and they help somebody else, and that person might help me back. And for me, it's a way of giving back on what I call skills of life that I have learned. Which is interesting because I brought some of those skills back into my author gig. Some of them might be personal branding. It's very important for an executive to be able to do that. And if I learned one thing it was this: the only thing you can control is how you feel about things. If you go into a pitch to an agent, or if you go into an interview, and you've got a bad attitude, you're not going to go anywhere. Writing is a people business. Finance is a people business. You've got to have a good attitude - and that's really important how you shape it."

On Trying New Things

"I've got friends coming out of corporate America who are bored. They never had another interest. They can't find anything to do. It's really funny to me, very sad. I've always had new ideas to pursue. Another thing is you got to embrace new things, learn new skills. I don't care what that is - if it's woodworking, if it's painting, or if it's gardening, which my mother loves to do in her later age. For me, it was writing books. And so what you've got to do is you got to experiment. You've got to test things...The other thing that I think is very important,

Could an Encore Career be in your future? How do you transition to a second career with purpose? Our guest, Ruth Wooden, is in her encore career - and it led her to create a program to help others build their own encore careers.

Ruth joins us from Hawaii.

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Bio

Ruth Wooden retired in 2011 from her career in communications in both the commercial and nonprofit sectors. In retirement, she went back to grad school and received an MA in religious studies from Union Theological Seminary in New York City. That experience led her to design a non-degree class for adults 55 plus - the Encore Transition Program - which combines discernment about aging and spirituality and experiential social justice opportunities in the nonprofit, religious or public sectors.

Ruth Wooden’s career encompassed 30 years of experience in marketing and advertising, including serving for 12 years as President and Chief Executive Officer of The Advertising Council, the leading producer of public service communications programs in the United States. She also served as President of Public Agenda, which was founded in 1975 by former Secretary of State Cyrus Vance and social scientist Daniel Yankelovich to help citizens better understand critical policy issues and to help the nation’s leaders better understand the public’s point of view.

Before serving as Public Agenda’s President, she was Senior Counselor at the international communications firm, Porter Novelli and she also served as the volunteer coordinator of the “Madison Avenue” advertising team for the Presidential Campaign of Senator Bill Bradley.

Ruth Wooden also served as the Board Chair of Encore.org, the leading voice in research and advocacy for building a movement to tap the skills and experiences of those in midlife and beyond.

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Wise Quotes

On Purpose

"This was the one and that really clued us into service or community activism as a definer of the Encore stage, the Encore ethic, the Encore movement. It isn't just about what you do in your Encore stage. Say at 60 or after retirement, it's about purpose. That's endemic to the definition in our view. There are lots of things we all do. I like to read and walk on the beach and play with my nieces and nephews and whatever, but purpose is inextricably linked to the idea of the Encore movement."

On Seminal Moments

"If you arrive at 65, let's just use 65, and you're in reasonably good health and you feel reconciled to having a good ending to your work life. Then I think people do turn to, you know what's right in line with Erik Erikson's developmental stage model. It's what he calls the longevity stage. But then he talks about the generativity stage. What do you generate at this time? And in history, most of that generativity work has been a legacy with your family, whether it's a financial legacy or storytelling, but now there are a few more years of that legacy moment. And so people do turn to thinking about what's next. For a lot of people, it's a continuation of what they were doing, but they go deeper. I teach this class at Union called the Encore Transition Program. We can talk about our Encore transition phase because it is a seminal transition moment. It's like getting married or [other] big moments like becoming an empty nester. These are seminal life moments where things change. So what I've noticed is that for a lot of people, their world, in some ways, gets narrower, but deeper. A number of people find themselves deeply engaged with their families or deeply engaged with a small group of friends. They don't have as many acquaintances anymore and they also get more engaged in their community and with more one-on-one kinds of things. They're not so likely to be writing the operational plan for a protest, but they might join it.

What happens when unforeseen events thwart your plans? Will you have the positive attitude, resilience, and perseverance you'll need to overcome adversity? Our guest today is Carol Cooke, AM, a Canadian-born Australian cyclist, swimmer, and rower and the author of Finding Your Inner Gold. Her compelling and inspiring story is one of perseverance and overcoming adversity by adapting with a positive attitude - and openness to pivoting to something new.

Carol joins us from Australia.

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Bio

After 41 years of training, 2 countries, 3 sports, and one devastating diagnosis, Carol Cooke’s dream of winning a gold medal came true at 51. This is her story.

Carol was born and bred in Toronto, Canada where she fulfilled a life-long dream of following in the footsteps of her family and served as a member of the Toronto Police Force in Canada for fourteen years.  She had it all – an exciting and fulfilling career that also saw her working in the undercover drug squad. But life was about to change dramatically, for better and worse.

Carol fell in love with an Australian, married and moved halfway around the world, and settled in Melbourne.  After competing in Hobart at the Masters Swimming Nationals in 1998, she awoke one morning with disturbing balance problems and double vision.

After an array of tests, she was bluntly told, “you have MS – go home and get your affairs in order before you become incapacitated”.  She was understandably devastated and the rest of the day was a blur.  Having only been married for three years and with no immediate family around, her thoughts revolved around how she was going to cope with this unpredictable disease. Fortunately, Carol found the determination and spirit to defy what the doctor had told her.

Carol was a national level swimmer in Canada while she was growing up and with an unstoppable nature and a passion for sport, Carol took up competitive rowing in December of 2006, made the Australian Rowing Team in 2008 and 2009 where she competed at the World Rowing Championships, coming away with a 6th place. She has held a scholarship at the Victorian Institute of Sport since 2007 and in 2011 took up the sport of para-cycling in the trike class.

Carol was named on the Australian para-cycling team to compete in Denmark at the Para-cycling World Road Championships in 2011. She won two silver medals and in 2012 was named in the Australian Team for the London Paralympics. At the Paralympics, Carol beat the men to win a gold medal in the mixed T1-T2 road time trial. At the end of 2012, Carol was ranked number one in the world in the Female T2 category and in 2013 became dual World Champion, winning both the Time Trial and the Road Race.  In 2014 she backed up her World Champion status and again was ranked number one in the world.  In 2015 Carol retained her World Championship Title in the Road Time Trial and won silver in the Road Race.  Also this year she was made a Member of the Order of Australia for her contribution to sport and philanthropy.

In 2016 Carol was named on the Australian Paralympic team for Rio and came away with 2 gold medals in the Road Time Trial and Road Race.  In 2017 Carol once again became a dual World Champion, retaining her #1 ranking, and to cap off an amazing year was awarded the top award at the Victorian Institute of Sport – The Award of Excellence.  She continued to race with another 2 World Championships in 2019.

Although living with the never-ending symptoms of MS, Carol has the strength and courage to get up each day with a positive and motivated attitude.  She has learned to live for today and not worry about what may or may not happen in the future.

Carol supports others living with MS to fulfill their dreams through her initiative, the 24 Hour Mega Swim. Since its inception in 2001,

Is planning for successful aging part of your retirement planning?

We've had the pleasure of talking with a number of experts who can help you be prepared to live well across your lifespan.

This mini-episode highlights key points you'll want to think about and include in your planning.

You can listen to the full conversations here:

Alan Castel 

Helen Dennis 

Anna Dixon 

Daniel Levitin 

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Retirement is a major life change, and it can be hard to know what to do next.

You've worked hard your entire career. Now that you'll have time and freedom in retirement, why not start doing the things you've always wanted?

Our coaching program will help you design a new vision of your unique future - one that includes the things you want in life but never had time for before.

We'll work with you to define success on your own terms - so that when it's time to retire, you're well prepared to live the life you've saved and invested for.

We help you design the life and/or the second career you want.

Schedule a call today to discuss how we can help you.

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Lifelong learning is an essential element of a satisfying retirement. And lifelong learning is an increasingly vital part of a successful career, including a second career. Our special guest, Dr. Michelle Weise, explains how longer lifespans are changing the nature of careers and education, and why lifelong learning is important for individuals and employers.

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Bio

Dr. Michelle R. Weise is the author of Long-Life Learning: Preparing for Jobs that Don’t Even Exist Yet. Thinkers50 named her one of 30 management and leadership thinkers in the world to watch in 2021. She is a senior advisor at Imaginable Futures, a venture of The Omidyar Group. Dr. Weise's work over the last decade has concentrated on preparing working-age adults for the jobs of today and tomorrow. She was the chief innovation officer of Strada Education Network as well as Southern New Hampshire University. With Clayton Christensen, she coauthored Hire Education: Mastery, Modularization, and the Workforce Revolution (2014) while leading the higher education practice at Christensen’s Institute for Disruptive Innovation.

Dr. Weise also advises BrightHive, a data collaboration platform, the Institute for Higher Education Policy (IHEP), the SkillUp Coalition, Strategic Education Inc.’s HIRE board, MIT SOLVE, Village Capital, Western Governors University Teachers College, Clayton Christensen Institute Social Capital R&D Project, and World Education’s Personal and Workplace Success Skills Library. She has also served as a commissioner for Massachusetts Governor Baker’s Commission on Digital Innovation and Lifelong Learning, Harvard University’s Task Force on Skills and Employability, and the American Academy of Arts and Sciences’ Commission on the Future of Undergraduate Education.

Her commentaries on redesigning higher education and developing more innovative workforce and talent pipeline strategies have been featured in The Economist, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and Harvard Business Review and on PBS Newshour.

​Michelle is a former Fulbright Scholar and graduate of Harvard and Stanford.

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Wise Quotes

On Longevity

"...basically since the 1840s, every year we've added on an average of three months to our lifespans. And there's no sign that that's actually stopping or lessening over time. I think we do have an interesting phenomenon here with the pandemic that is kind of shaping our mortality rates, obviously in this century, in this year, in this decade. But for the most part, we know that our lifespans have been extending. And then there are different kinds of futurists and experts on aging and longevity who are proposing that the first people to live to be a hundred and years old have already been born. So if we just take this concept of a hundred-year life or 150 year work-life, even if we don't maybe fully buy into it, or want to buy into it because we don't want to live 150 years, that's still a very helpful mental model for us to think about how do we actually thrive in this future, where we are already seeing that a lot of working-age adults are staying in the workforce for far longer than they had ever anticipated well into their sixties and seventies.

 

On Preparing for an Extended Worklife

"We see that early baby boomers are experiencing 12 job changes on average by the time they retire. So even if we just extend a little bit in terms of thinking about an extended work-life, whether it's 60, 80, or a hundred years, it's not actually that difficult for us to extrapolate and think, 'Oh, we could possibly face maybe 20 or 30 job changes by the time we retire' - and how in the world are we going to do that when navigating one [job change] is so difficult. And so the way that I think about a way to visualize this idea of long-life learni...

Healthy choices create a healthy lifestyle, but how can you consistently make the best choices? Having solid information is a good start, but it's not enough. By making some simple, targeted adjustments, it is easier than you think to create healthy habits that will last. Our guest, Alan Carpenter, shares his personal experience, insights, and advice on how he learned to make the right healthy lifestyle choices - and how you can too.

Alan joins us from Colorado.

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Bio

Like many of you, Alan Carpenter was living a good life. But that almost ended on June 16, 2013 when he suffered a life-threatening accident. In spite of the pain and ensuing incapacitation, the accident turned out to be a blessing in disguise. While recuperating from his injuries, Alan realized that he had taken his life for granted—especially his health and well-being. To learn how to rejuvenate his health and well-being, he spent more than six years combing the scientific and medical literature. He synthesized what he found into nine simple, evidence-based, practical healthy lifestyle choices. His newly published book, Choose Better, Live Better, presents the scientific case that making healthy lifestyle choices can rejuvenate your life.

Alan urges you to embrace these healthy lifestyle choices and incorporate them into your daily life. When you do, you’ll enjoy greater life energy, you’ll have a wider network of support relationships, and you’ll live with purpose—among many other desirable outcomes. Plus, you’ll greatly reduce your risk of debilitating chronic diseases including Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, and type 2 diabetes. Alan uses his knowledge and life experiences to help people increase their Quality of Lifespan. In other words, helping others live better and longer. To that end, Alan offers keynotes, breakout sessions, and trainings to bring his critically important message to the world.

Alan is also a veteran long-distance hiker and cyclist. Since embarking on his first long-distance hike at age 62, he’s logged 17,300 miles of long-distance adventures. They include hiking the John Muir Trail (twice), the Colorado Trail (twice), the Pacific Crest Trail, the Appalachian Trail, and half of the Continental Divide Trail. He also bicycled the cross-country Pacific Coast, Southern Tier, and Northern Tier Routes. Alan attributes his continued ability to complete these physically and mentally demanding trips to the healthy choices he’s incorporated into his daily life.

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Wise Quotes

On Key Healthy Choices

"What I call cultivate social connections, until maybe about 20 years ago, the medical community was pretty much clueless about this, but it's a huge deal. And the evidence is really solid on this. In fact, there are people that think this is the biggest deal of all, what I call social connection. And then under the category of the spirit, I would say the big one is to cultivate a positive mental attitude in that umbrella. I see three key items and they would be optimism, gratitude, and forgiveness. And just think about that for a minute. Wouldn't you rather be around people who are positive, upbeat can-do, and grateful for what they have in life? And are willing to forgive themselves and other people for boo-boos in their lives? Of course, life would be so much more wonderful if everybody lived that way."

On Finding Purpose

"I think for many people, it's some event in their life that really turns their life upside down for a while. For me, it was almost getting killed while I was hiking the Pacific Crest Trail and coming home. And just coming to terms with that, that was a big deal. And I talked to other people who have had these really just traumatic injuries and illnesses. And it's the same story over and over. When these folks get home from the hospital,

Does your retirement planning account for caregiving? Will you be a caregiver? Who will be your caregivers?

We talk with expert Joy Loverde about what you should include in your retirement planning.

Joy joins us from Chicago.

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Bio

Joy Loverde has a reputation for being a path carver and visionary. Joy is the author of the Who Will Take Care Of Me When I’m Old? and the best-seller, The Complete Eldercare Planner. The American Medical Association says, “It’s the best book we’ve seen.”

With over 30 years experience as a media spokesperson, Joy's appearances include the TODAY Show, Good Morning America, CBS Early Show, ABC News, Fox News, National Public Radio, SiriusXM, and others.

During her career, she has been quoted in the Wall Street Journal, TIME, Money, New York Times, U.S. News & World Report, Reuters, Reader’s Digest, Family Circle, Psychology Today, Good Housekeeping, among others. USA TODAY ran a four-part series on Joy’s eldercare programs.

Joy specializes in keynotes for family members and professionals including employers, women's groups, centers for healthy aging, associations, law firms, financial institutions, alumni associations, senior housing, health care providers, and retreat centers and others.

A seasoned on-camera professional, product endorsements include GoodFeet, Estate Inventory Services, Age Without Borders, Energizer Battery Company, Boomer Living, American Senior's Housing Association, and a host of other products and services.

With a focus on the mature-market population, Joy serves as a marketing and media consultant to senior housing, HR professionals, attorneys, financial planners, clergy, and other members of the fast-growing eldercare industry.

Joy’s work has taken her to every corner of the world where she has personally interacted with thousands of family members and professionals in the field of aging. She also loves connecting with you on social media.

Wife, mom, grandmother, Cubs fan, Joy was caregiver to her parents, is married to family-law attorney, David V. Schultz, is grandmother of 10, and resides in Chicago.

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Wise Quotes

On Thinking Like a Strategist

"Well, first of all, people don't know what thinking like a strategist is. So what I like to do is just break open that can of worms by saying critical thinking is really the practice of changing your perspective.  If you just continue to think the way you always have, it might just keep you in that little box and nothing will really change in your life. So the idea about thinking critically just breaks that wide open. So here's how I do it. I talk to people who are very different than me, different cultures, different careers. And I ask them questions that scare me because they will have a whole different idea about things that might pertain to aging. That is quite scary. So I talk to people who are different. I also talk to people who are young and people who are old. And one of my favorite advisors is my eight-year-old granddaughter. And I ask her this question all the time. I say, what would you do if you were me? So that is what I mean by thinking strategically."

On Caregiving

"If you're going to be a caregiver, the number one rule is to get a financial planner for yourself because the expenses of being a caregiver can be quite emotional. So if we find out that mom or dad is running out of money, most caregivers, because they're so loving and wonderful, start to dip into their own pockets and they start shelling out money and really jeopardizing their own retirement. So the number one thing that people need to do, if they anticipate being a caregiver, is to get a financial planner. Find out how much money you have,

Some key life decisions can have consequences that reverberate for years. And as you plan for retirement, there are big decisions ahead. What lessons can we learn from emerging research on how to make big decisions? Our guest, Dr. Adrian Camilleri, has engaged 657 Americans (from 20 to  80) on the ten big life decisions they've made so far.

Dr. Camilleri joins us from Australia.

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Bio

Dr. Adrian Camilleri is a senior lecturer in marketing at the University of Technology Sydney. He holds a bachelor’s degree in psychology, a Master’s degree in organizational psychology, and a Ph.D. in psychology, all from the University of New South Wales. He completed postdoctoral training in management and marketing at Duke University’s Fuqua School of Business. Adrian is an expert in the fields of cognitive, organisational, and consumer psychology.

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Wise Quotes

On Big Career-Related Decisions

"One of the categories of big decisions that I focused on was career-related decisions. And so these involve questions like starting a new job, quitting a job, starting a business, closing down a business, joining the military, leaving the military, and then retirement. And so when important results from the interviews that I conducted was to look at how these different categories of big life decisions changed between those of different age groups... So leaving a  position is also often a very big life decision...And obviously, these career-related decisions culminate in what's usually the final career-related decision. Quite a number of people. who are about the age of 60, in my survey, had actually decided to retire.  So retirement is certainly one of life's biggest decisions for those who have managed to the point where they're considering concluding their working career. More than half of those above the age of 60 years old had mentioned explicitly retirement as one of their biggest life decisions...So, when we look at lifestyle satisfaction, those who had already retired, who made that big decision, rated high on life satisfaction compared to those who are not [retired]. Now again, I put the sort of caveat on correlation data. So it could be that those who are already happy with their life are much more likely to retire. But there's something to be looked at there because I have seen all the research suggesting that those who retire, many of them end up kind of feeling aimless and bored, even unhappy."

On Self Development Decisions

"And what we see is that self-development type decisions don't frequently make it onto the list of biggest life decisions, but they do tend to increase over time. So those who are in their sixties and seventies tend to be making more self-development decisions than those who are younger. And as I have mentioned, these self-development decisions tend to be ones that are evaluated more positively. Another follow-up question that I asked participants was how much time did you spend thinking about the decision before you made it? And there's a nice contrast here between self-destructive and self-development decisions. So those who are making these self-destructive decisions such as committing a crime, taking drugs or something like that, were often thought about for seconds, perhaps minutes. In contrast, self-development decisions were often thought about for months, if not years. And we can think about these self-development decisions in terms of the more positive ones, like pursuing your religion or philosophy or engaging a new hobby or learning a new skill. But certainly reading through the stories that I was presented within these survey results, there were a number of people who were of age 60 and older, who had big life decisions related to seeking treatment. So whether they were deciding to get an operation or to do with cataracts,

What was your career plan when you were graduating from college? You probably didn't leave college equipped with the skills to make a career change midlife. So if you're considering a second career, a career change at 50 or a career change at 60, our guest today has valuable information you'll want to hear. If you have family members, colleagues, or neighbors who ask you for career advice, you'll find this conversation very helpful.

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Bio

Mark Herschberg is the author of The Career Toolkit, Essential Skills for Success That No One Taught You. From tracking criminals and terrorists on the dark web to creating marketplaces and new authentication systems, Mark has spent his career launching and developing new ventures at startups and Fortune 500s and in academia. He helped to start the Undergraduate Practice Opportunities Program, dubbed MIT's "career success accelerator," where he teaches annually. At MIT, he received a B.S. in physics, a B.S. in electrical engineering & computer science, and a M.Eng. in electrical engineering & computer science, focusing on cryptography. At Harvard Business School, Mark helped create a platform used to teach finance at prominent business schools. He also works with many non-profits, including Techie Youth and Plant A Million Corals. He was one of the top-ranked ballroom dancers in the country and now lives in New York City, where he is known for his social gatherings, including his annual Halloween party, as well as his diverse cufflink collection.

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Wise Quotes

On Career Changes Midlife

"This is my third recession and I'm only mid-career. So I, I very much see and understand what they're going through. In fact, during the great recession, I helped teach at a program sponsored by New York's Economic Development Council, in which we were taking people who lost not simply their job, but their career. Their entire career was getting displaced and not coming back post-recession. And New York said to us: We can't have them sitting on the sidelines. These are capable people. How do we get them back to work? We looked at where the jobs were being created and the nature of those jobs, typically the people being displaced were coming from large corporations. So certainly coming out of 2008, 2009, lots of financial services, lots of big companies where you had multiple layers of bureaucracy. The jobs being created were in tiny companies in startups, in companies, less than 50 people, sometimes less than 20 people. The biggest change was trying to get people to see those jobs and feel comfortable in those jobs. It wasn't so much a domain skill challenge. It's not that. If you've been at big corporations, your whole life, look at these small companies and then recognize that cultural difference.

So if you're in a big company of 30,000 people, you're used to having the pre-meeting to plan the meeting, to coordinate the meeting for the meeting to discuss something. So at six months later, decisions made when you're at these tiny 20 person startups, and you say, Hey, I have an idea. So you turn around in your chair and you're talking to the boss, who's sitting three feet from you in another chair because there are no offices here.  And the boss says, okay, that sounds great. Well, that was the meeting. Those were the six months condensed to a six-minute conversation and understanding these cultural differences, how the businesses operate, that you can move fast and break things, which is very different from these big traditional corporations. That was the biggest challenge. And so to people who are saying, I need to find something different. It's not just the same job with a different company. Look at different types of companies and understand it's not just going to be the mechanics of the role, but understand the cultural differences.

We help you balance your retirement planning. No other podcasts cover the non-financial side of retirement planning as in-depth.

Here's a recap of what we learned in the second month of our 4th season of The Retirement Wisdom Podcast talking with:

Barbara O'Neill, A Distinguished Professor Emeritus at Rutgers University and author of Flipping the Switch: Your Guide to Happiness and Financial Security in Later Life.

J. Kelly Hoey author of Build Your Dream Network.

Lance Oppenheim, a filmmaker from South Florida, on his first feature film: Some Kind of Heaven

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You can listen to the full conversations here:

When Will You Flip the Switch? – Dr. Barbara O’Neill

How’s Your Network? – Kelly Hoey

Some Kind of Heaven – Lance Oppenheim

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About Retirement Wisdom

We help people who are retiring from their primary career – and aren’t done yet –  discover what’s next.

A long retirement is a terrible thing to waste. And a meaningful retirement doesn’t just happen by accident.

Schedule a call today to discuss how our Designing Your Life® coaching programs can help you make yours great.

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