Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi — five years ago proclaimed the caliph of the Islamic State — has been eliminated by American Special Operators in Syria, underscoring both the importance of having boots on Syrian ground and the benefits of partnering with Kurdish-led forces.

In this episode of Foreign Podicy, FDD founder and president Clifford D. May offers thoughts on this development. Then, in a conversation recorded prior to the death of ‘Big Baghdadi’, Cliff discusses the Islamic State in a broader context with Seth Frantzman, author of After ISIS: America, Iran and the Struggle for the Middle East, based on four years of on-the-ground reporting from ten countries in the region,  and John Hannah, senior counselor at FDD and former national security advisor to Vice President Dick Cheney.