The Symbolic World

For this week’s podcast, I sat down with Fr. Turbo Qualls and David Patrick Harry to discuss beauty and iconography in the Orthodox Christian tradition, why beauty is a part of the Church despite Christ leading a simple life, giving back to God, the meaning and purpose of icons in worship, balancing beauty and charity, the question of idolatry, the duality of externals, and more.

Fr. Turbo Qualls is the rector at St. Mary of Egypt, Serbian Orthodox Church in Kanses City Missouti, where he lives with his wife Juliana and their children. He has lectured in various parts of the United States in regard to the work of evangelization and cultural outreach.

David Patrick Harry is a religious studies scholar and has a YouTube channel called Church of the Eternal Logos that’s devoted to Orthodox Christian apologetics, his academic work, as well as addressing topics such as comparative mysticism, Gnosticism, world religions, esoteric traditions, the spirituality of technology, and much more.

Check out David’s channel: Church of the Eternal Logos: https://www.youtube.com/@ChurchoftheEternalLogos

Original YouTube version: https://youtu.be/awabHcHOY_k

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Timestamps:
0:00 - Coming up
0:50 - Intro music
1:16 - Introduction
1:46 - Aesthetics in the Orthodox Church
3:22 - Symbols and beauty in the Church
8:14 - Why the Church prioritizes beauty
13:12 - Give the best back to God
18:04 - An expansive view
20:47 - The beauty and the ascetic
25:39 - Synthesis vs confusion
33:33 - Reaching mankind through beauty
40:49 - Balancing beauty with charity
48:58 - The duality of externals
57:40 - A commodity
1:05:00 - A relationship
1:18:31 - The plateau
1:22:03 - A new context for beauty
—

Join us for the Symbolic World Summit on Feb 29th, 2024, in Tarpon Springs, Florida. Learn more here: https://thesymbolicworld.com/summit

💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
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Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

Dr. Martin Shaw will be a speaker at the Symbolic World Summit next year in Tarpon Springs, Florida. In this conversation we discuss pagan stories, including The Odyssey and The Iliad, our current moment in the West, the return of paganism and a desire for Kleos (imperishable glory) in modern life. We also talk about how much paganism differs from Christianity, wrestling with Scripture as a mythographer, and Martin’s journey to Orthodox Christianity.

Dr Martin Shaw is a writer, storyteller, and mythologist. Award-winning author of seventeen books, his most recent, Bardskull, was Guardian Book of the Day and described by the Sunday Times as “rich and transgressive.” He is a wilderness rites of passage guide and spent four years living in a tent. Shaw founded the Oral Tradition and Living Myth courses at Stanford University and is described by the Irish Times as an “interloper from the medieval.” An Eastern Orthodox Christian, over the last twenty-five years Shaw has introduced thousands of people to myth and how it speaks to our age. He is widely published: Orion, The Sun, Mississippi Review, Poetry International and many others.

Original YouTube version: https://youtu.be/U4BVKOBrnTY
Dr. Martin Shaw’s website: https://drmartinshaw.com/
Substack: https://martinshaw.substack.com/

Join me and Dr. Martin Shaw and others at the Symbolic World Summit in Tarpon Springs, Florida.
Date: Feb 29-Mar 2, 2024
Tickets start at $399: https://thesymbolicworld.com/summit
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Coming up next
1:00 - Intro music
1:24 - Introduction
1:44 - The Symbolic World Summit
5:12 - What stood out rereading The Odyssey
10:13 - What paganism looks like
13:58 - The Iliad
14:57 - Christ in The Odyssey
20:28 - Struggling with Scripture
24:29 - Relating to Biblical stories
26:56 - Samson
31:16 - Pandemonium and understanding the West
33:07 - Tell me about the Summit
38:00 - Martin's transformation
42:01 - I'm not a classicist
—--------------------
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
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Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick is Chief Content Officer of Ancient Faith Ministries. He has been podcasting since 2007 and is the host of Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy, Orthodox Engagement, and Roads from Emmaus, as well as co-host of The Lord of Spirits, The Areopagus, and Amon Sûl.
I had a wonderful conversation with Fr. Andrew about his latest project, The Wolf and the Cross. This podcast series documents his Orthodox pilgrimage to Lithuania, the last pagan nation in Europe.
We discuss how Eastern Orthodoxy deals with the traditions and symbols from paganism and how it adapts elements of non-orthodox branches of Christianity.
Listen to The Wolf and the Cross: https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/wolfandcross

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JOIN US FOR THE SYMBOLIC WORLD SUMMIT: https://thesymbolicworld.com/summit
Feb 29th - Mar 2nd, 2024
Tarpon Springs, Florida, US
Tickets start at $399
-----------------------

PAST INTERVIEWS WITH FR. ANDREW
• Arise O God: A Cosmic Vision of the Gospel | https://youtu.be/6U7c_89FeWM
• The Areopagus Podcast: Storytelling by Subverting Subversion | https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/areopagus/storytelling_by_subverting_subversion_with_jonathan_pageau
• JRR Tolkien and The Applicability of Stories | https://youtu.be/QcQShPpbEgc
• Gods, Angels and Demons | https://youtu.be/NW_WlIurGtA

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⏯️ TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - Preview
00:28 - Intro music
00:52 - Introduction
02:59 - Second visit to Lithuania
03:00 - Lithuania on the border between Catholicism and Orthodoxy
04:05 - The last pagan nation in Europe (late 14th century)
05:42 - The backstory of Christianity and other religions
09:55 - God redeems or untwists pagan symbolism
13:22 - Transformation and creative engagement
19:14 - Germanic Paganism and Christianity
29:46 - Orthodox and non-orthodox Christians
37:47 - The Sun Cross
39:44 - Dievdirbys and Pensive Christ (Rūpintojėlis)
44:05 - The Hill of Crosses (Kryžių Kalnas)
48:45 - St. Peter Mohyla and Latinization
50:24 - All Souls Day in Lithuanian Orthodoxy (Vėlinės)
55:19 - Our Lady of the Gate of Dawn, Theotokos
57:16 - Our Lady of Pažaislis
1:03:04 - The porous nature of religious traditions
1:09:20 - Humility vs. the demonic spirit of polarization
1:11:32 - Conclusion
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LINKS
💻 Website & Blog: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com
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📱 SOCIAL MEDIA
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Our website designers: www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

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Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976
A small portion of the audio content in this episode belongs to Dirt Poor Robins. We have received explicit permission from Dirt Poor Robins to use their music in this video to advertise an event where they will be present as performing artists.
All content posted is merely for educational, commentarial, and informational purposes under Fair Use law. All rights and credit go directly to its owners. No copyright infringement intended.

Kendelle Hoyer is passionate about storytelling and art, which has been a life-long pursuit since childhood when she decided she wanted to work in animation. Since then, Kendelle has developed her craft of bringing fantastical stories to life. She has been privileged to work on feature films at major animation studios since 2008, and is currently working in Los Angeles as storyboard artist.
In this podcast episode, we discuss her work as an artist to put together movies for the big screen. We also discuss what makes a story precious, and how to approach creative storytelling.

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Timestamps:
0:00 - Preview
0:50 - Intro music
1:14 - Introduction
2:01 - Being a storyboard artist
3:17 - What's the difference between the head-of-story and the director?
4:43 - How symbolic thinking helps
5:12 - Story reels
7:05 - Planning
9:45 - A bad story
12:39 - Working on a project
14:35 - The early Pixar and Disney movies
16:31 - Protecting the creative environment
20:02 - The next wave of storytelling
22:20 - Finding the right character
22:57 - Story problem solving
25:54 - What did you study?
26:36 - Storytellers are important
27:44 - Stop complaining and start creating
29:39 - How has symbolic thinking influenced your work?
33:33 - Putting the story first
37:50 - The flow and dialogos
44:38 - The early Disney films
46:17 - AI
49:48 - AI images
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💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
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Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

There is a tendency to isolate religious behavior from other human behavior, which can make religious behavior seem arbitrary or ridiculous. In this week's video, I argue that the best way to understand religion, even from a purely materialist perspective, is to understand it as an extension of other types of ritualized behavior, even those we can find among animals.

💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🗣 Join The Symbolic World Community for discussions about symbolism: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe

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Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

I had a great discussion with Annie Crawford. She’s written two wonderful articles for the Symbolic World Blog and is offering a course on C.S. Lewis’ Ransom Trilogy on the Symbolic World website. Check out our discussion about C.S. Lewis, AI, progress, gender, laughter, science, and the mystical.

Sign up for Annie’s course on the C.S. Lewis Ransom Trilogy. If you sign up now you will get the recordings of the first 10 lessons. The remaining 5 lessons on That Hideous Strength will be every Friday at 3pm CST / 4pm EST: https://the-symbolic-world.circle.so/checkout/cs-lewis-trilogy
Email us at [email protected] if you have any questions or reach out to Annie in our website community: https://the-symbolic-world.circle.so/home

Annie’s articles on the Symbolic World Blog:
- ‘Cosmos’: A Poetic Reflection on the Medieval Model: https://thesymbolicworld.com/content/cosmos-a-poetic-reflection-on-the-medieval-model
- Gender and the Cosmos: The Restoration of Worlds in C.S. Lewis’s Ransom Trilogy: https://thesymbolicworld.com/content/gender-and-the-cosmos-the-restoration-of-worlds-in-c-s-lewis-s-ransom-trilogy

Timestamps:
0:00 Coming up
0:27 - Intro music
0:51 - Introduction
3:21 - The Symbolic World community
4:22 - C.S. Lewis' Ransom Trilogy
6:14 - The disembodied head
7:20 - Gender and C.S. Lewis
13:31 - C.S. Lewis' approach to the topic
17:41 - The "third gender"
24:04 - The ending of "That Hideous Strength"
31:46 - Waters above and below
33:39 - Lewis and Dante
39:44 - Theology and "science"
46:31 - Barfield and Lewis: an original unity
53:30 - Merlin's Last Laugh

💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🗣 Join The Symbolic World Community for discussions about symbolism: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
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Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pageaujonathan
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonathan.pageau
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

I had an amazing discussion with Jacob Howland about the fundamental question of technology. We investigate from both the Biblical and ancient Greek perspectives what technology is and its effects on the human spirit.
We discuss the notion of memory and recollection, Plato’s Phaedrus, the Biblical notion of garments of skin, ChatGPT and AI, work and leisure, technology’s effects on human capabilities, paganism and idolatry, intelligence, and “the matrix”, the internet, intuition, and much more.

Jacob Howland is the Provost and Director of the Intellectual Foundations Program at UATX, commonly known as the University of Austin.
His latest book is Glaucon's Fate: History, Myth, and Character in Plato's Republic (Paul Dry Books, 2018): https://www.amazon.com/Glaucons-Fate-History-Character-Republic/dp/1589881346

Jacob Howland’s website: https://www.jacobhowland.com/
His articles on Unherd: https://unherd.com/author/jacob-howlandunherd-com/

YouTube version of this podcast: https://youtu.be/o468OtytbVQ

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:02 - Intro music
01:28 - Introduction
01:59 - Different narratives about technology
04:09 - Technology from the Greek perspective
05:01 - Plato's Phaedra - and fixing words
08:16 - Egypt
09:29 - Suppressing recollection
11:13 - The garments of skin
15:02 - Work - sorting chaos
18:17 - Human capabilities diminishing
19:53 - ChatGPT cannibalizes itself
22:06 - A pagan god that feeds on humans
23:52 - Human batteries
26:03 - Intuition - direct access to reality
28:49 - What do we mean by intelligence?
30:47 - Understand AI as idolatry
32:19 - The gold of the golden calf
34:53 - The tabernacle
35:33 - A body of power
37:39 - card: Beasts in Revelation
39:16 - Work and leisure
47:45 - Monastic life and leisure
49:18 - Not anti-technology
50:54 - The Henry Adams curve
56:56 - The Beast kills the whore
1:00:17 - Plato's cave
1:01:19 - There is no "solution"
1:03:24 - Prometheus’ cycle of desire
1:05:58 - The flip side of all of this
1:10:15 - Paradise Lost
1:11:09 - The need for transcendence
1:12:26 - Re-engage at the human scale

💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🗣 Join The Symbolic World Community for discussions about symbolism: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
🔒 BECOME A PATRON
Website: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
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📱 SOCIAL MEDIA
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/TheSymbolicWorld
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pageaujonathan
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonathan.pageau
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

Fr. Stephen De Young is writing an article for our upcoming publication, the Symbolic World Magazine, and he will also join us as a speaker for the Symbolic World Summit in February 2024. He is an amazing writer and speaker and has really helped me reach new heights in my understanding of Scripture.
In this discussion we specifically discuss certain sexual and revolutionary symbolism in the Bible, starting with when Ham “uncovered” his father, Noah’s, “nakedness”. Understanding this is a key to understanding Genesis 9, and an important aspect of Biblical storytelling.

Bio: Rev. Dr. Stephen De Young is Pastor of Archangel Gabriel Orthodox Church in Lafayette, Louisiana. He is also the host of the Whole Counsel of God podcast from Ancient Faith and author of the Whole Counsel Blog, as well as co-host of the Lord of Spirits podcast. Fr. Stephen holds a Ph.D. in Biblical Studies from Amridge University.

Registration for the Symbolic World Summit in Tarpon Springs, Florida, opens TODAY!
Date: Feb 29-Mar 2, 2024
Tickets start at $399: https://thesymbolicworld.com/summit
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Fr. Stephen De Young:
Lord of Spirits podcast: https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/lordofspirits
Fr. De Young’s books, podcasts, and blogs: https://www.ancientfaith.com/contributors/stephen_deyoung
Previous discussions with Fr. De Young on this channel:
- The Son of Man - with Fr. Stephen De Young - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8KkjD-sLQI
- Gods, Angels and Demons - with Fr. Andrew Damick and Fr. Stephen De Young - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW_WlIurGtA
- Hope for the Future and the Religion of the Apostles | with Fr. Stephen De Young - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsuxgepcNwQ
---
Original YouTuber version of this podcast: https://youtu.be/GQgOYkzj0ek
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Timestamps:
0:00 // Preview clip
1:17 // Intro music
1:42 // Introduction
2:17 // Speaking at conference
3:28 // The legacy of Lord of Spirits
5:33 // Rediscovering the Old World
11:57 // A key in Genesis about Noah
16:23 // Uncovering the father's nakedness
20:09 // Why would Ham do this
25:03 // Usurpation in Scripture
30:06 // The positive side
31:10 // The sin at the beginning of a world
34:10 // Not too close or too far
39:10 // In Christ's story
40:57 // Conceding mediation
44:14 // A more mature understanding of unification
47:22 // Our conception of marriage and family
51:03 // St. Paul saying women must cover their heads
56:37 // Noah's sin
59:11 // Lot's sin
1:01:00 // Knowing your opponent
---
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🗣 Join The Symbolic World Community for discussions about symbolism: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
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Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

I sat down again with the American novelist and screenwriter, Gregg Hurwitz. Gregg was part of the Daily Wire+ Exodus series discussion panel with Jordan Peterson, so I thought it was a good time for us to talk about what we took away from those discussions, Exodus, Christianity, CS Lewis, the importance of ritual, temperance, and a nuanced approach to social matters.

Previous discussions:
- New Think - with Gregg Hurwitz: https://youtu.be/nR53MJd8VLI?si=AAIcbBjs4x1pHt9X
- Patterns in Politics and Storytelling | with Gregg Hurwitz: https://youtu.be/ykDHAapyaZ4?si=pNF0KV7uIInAMiUs

Exodus series with Daily Wire+ and Jordan Peterson: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL22J3VaeABQAppIsV0MmKYhGeFGJsy-dS&si=VxB_bJsEU-QvWHPW

Gregg’s website: https://gregghurwitz.net/

Original YouTube version of this podcast: https://youtu.be/tOhS9Gm_a5I
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Timestamps:
00:00 // Preview
00:41 // Intro music
01:06 // Introduction
01:56 // Gregg's experience with the Exodus series
04:57 // Let the fringe be the fringe
13:06 // Layers of participation
15:04 // The essence of the laws
16:28 // Values and a foundation
20:20 // Humility
22:06 // A structure in which to navigate
25:39 // The necessity of ritual
31:04 // CS Lewis and The Great Divorce
35:28 // Freedom
38:25 // Hell
43:39 // Hypocrisy and accusation
48:09 // The Nine Worthies
54:34 // The messiness of life
1:03:22 // Guilt by association
1:08:54 // Pluralistic ignorance
---
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🗣 Join The Symbolic World Community for discussions about symbolism: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
🔒 BECOME A PATRON
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Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.

Apologies for the audio quality.

In this lecture, I take you through contemporary art history and its desperate search for a proper means of participation in a desacralized world. This talk is a follow-up to a previous video I did, The End of Desacralization in Art. This time I want to explore with you some specifics on how contemporary art has to confront alienation, power dynamics, and the minimization of yet yearning for ritual, participation, and community.

Original YouTube version of this lecture: https://youtu.be/EWc7TKm9jho

This lecture follows up on a previous video lecture I posted, The End of Desacralization in Art: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WYh20sYBsQ&t=813s
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Preview
0:59 - Intro music
1:24 - Introduction
2:27 - The pendulum swing of deincarnation
3:12 - Brancusi: Find the essence
5:41 - More examples: Kandinsky and Mondrian
8:59 - Opposites attract: Idealism and constructivism
12:38 - Alienation of the art object
17:53 - One extreme calls the other
19:10 - Remember participation
21:12 - Marina Abramovic
28:56 - Resembling rituals
31:55 - Eating as ritual participation
36:37 - Joseph Beuys: Atonement
43:51 - Anselm Kiefer: The weight of history
47:02 - Trapped in the art world
50:55 - Hope
---
💻 Website and blog: http:-www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https:-linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🗣 Join The Symbolic World Community for discussions about symbolism: https:-thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
🔒 BECOME A PATRON
Website: https:-thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Patreon: http:-www.patreon.com/pageauvideos
📱 SOCIAL MEDIA
Facebook: http:-www.facebook.com/TheSymbolicWorld
Twitter: http:-www.twitter.com/pageaujonathan
Instagram: https:-www.instagram.com/jonathan.pageau
Our website designers: https:-www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.