The Symbolic World

In this episode, Father Josiah Trenham returns to the podcast for us to talk about the profound meaning and cosmic significance of marriage. We explore why marriage is a crucial civilizational cornerstone rooted in divine order, not only from a Christian perspective, but universally in all flourishing societies. We discuss how it compares to and co-exists with monasticism and the meaning of marriage and the wedding ceremony not just as a gate to self-fulfillment and a joyful experience, but also as self-sacrifice. We also discuss how rediscovering the beauty of marriage can help restore sanity in our fragmented secular world.

This conversation is also a preview of the upcoming Marriage Conference in Riverside, CA (Oct. 10–12), where I’ll be speaking alongside Father Josiah, Archbishop Cordileone, Dr. Brad Wilcox, and others. Learn more at https://www.themarriageconference.com/ 

Subscribe to Fr. Josiah's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@PatristicNectarFilms

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NEW COURSE: Jubilees and the Nephilim, by Fr. Stephen De Young

- Catch the early bird special of 15% off with code: EARLYJUBILEES, valid until 11:59 pm EST (midnight) of August 8th.
- Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/jubilees-and-the-nephilim 
- Course Length: 6 Weeks, 12 Hours
- Dates: Live classes are on Tuesday at 7 - 9 pm Central Time, starting August 19th through September 23rd, 2025
- Participants will be given access to lesson recordings.
- The course is hosted on the Symbolic World Circle Community platform. Sign up as a free member before making your purchase. 
- Price: 180 USD
Step into the strange and revelatory world of the Book of Jubilees, an ancient retelling of Genesis that shaped ancient Jewish thought and still echoes through Christian tradition. In this course, Fr. Stephen De Young guides students through the book’s expansion of biblical history, unveiling the significance of the fall of the angels, the rise of the Nephilim, and the heavenly origins of the feasts of the Old and New Testaments. Along the way, he'll explore how Jubilees reinterprets creation, demonology, and the prophetic structure of time, and why these themes mattered not only to Second Temple Judaism, but to later Christian understandings of the unseen world.

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Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:00 - Intro music
01:24 - Introduction
04:01 - Marriage, monasticism, and St. John the Baptist
09:16 - The symbiosis between monasticism and marriage
12:32 - Why marriage fails
16:14 - The fruits of abandoning marriage
21:37 - Contract
24:15 - Acknowledge the ideal
27:53 - The nuclear and extended family
29:40 - The crowns
34:23 - A new independent union
38:03 - Aspects of marriage
43:19 - Refined love
45:42 - Pagan monogamy
50:39 - Marrying young
55:18 - 50s Housewife vs boss babe
57:01 - Having children
01:00:39 - Hopes

Fr. Stephen De Young returns to the channel to explore how we should approach extra-Biblical literature—looking especially at the Book of Jubilees in anticipation of his upcoming Symbolic World course: Jubilees and the Nephilim. We discuss a different, more ancient way of doing theology—through story, ritual, poetry, and image rather than flat modern academic argument. If you’ve ever wondered how texts like Jubilees, Enoch, or the Lives of Adam and Eve connect to Christian theology, this conversation is for you.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/poAELqTQTo0

NEW COURSE: Jubilees and the Nephilim, by Fr. Stephen De Young
- Catch the early bird special of 15% off with code: EARLYJUBILEES, valid until 11:59 pm EST (midnight) of August 8th.
- Price: 180 USD (Discounted to 158 USD)
- Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/jubilees-and-the-nephilim 
- Course Length: 6 Weeks, 12 Hours
- Dates: Live classes are on Tuesday at 7 - 9 pm Central Time, starting August 19th through September 23rd, 2025
- Participants will be given access to lesson recordings.
- The course is hosted on the Symbolic World Circle Community platform. Sign up as a free member before making your purchase. 

Step into the strange and revelatory world of the Book of Jubilees, an ancient retelling of Genesis that shaped ancient Jewish thought and still echoes through Christian tradition. In this course, Fr. Stephen De Young guides students through the book’s expansion of biblical history, unveiling the significance of the fall of the angels, the rise of the Nephilim, and the heavenly origins of the feasts of the Old and New Testaments. Along the way, he'll explore how Jubilees reinterprets creation, demonology, and the prophetic structure of time, and why these themes mattered not only to Second Temple Judaism, but to later Christian understandings of the unseen world.

Timestamps
00:00 - Coming up
00:55 - Intro music
01:20 - Introduction
02:11 - Jubilees
05:08 - A different way of doing theology
15:23 - Why do we have peripheral stories?
22:34 - The twelfth apostle
24:16 - Blood libel
27:09 - Adam's skull
31:19 - Sacred geography
34:09 - The sacramental reality
39:01 - The modern trade
41:52 - UFOs, psychedelics, and materialism
44:43 - Reading extra-biblical texts and Jubilees
47:53 - What can extra-biblical traditions offer us?

💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

In this episode I reflect on the symbolism behind Superman as a figure rooted in American mythology and post-WWII identity. I also discuss the new Superman movie by James Gunn, which actually has an interesting twist that can help us understand not just the superhero archetype, but also the crucial and relevant question of the immigrant or convert.

https://youtu.be/RByli5eMoP8

Rapunzel and the Evil Witch is coming in August—and you can pre-order it now. If you missed the first 1,000 copies (which sold out in 26 hours!), here’s your chance next to get it. Pre-orders come with the audiobook I recorded and a companion worksheet to explore the story with your family. Go to https://www.rapunzelbook.com/ and get ready—this is where the fairy tales start to weave together.

💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

In this episode of Universal History, I sit down with Deacon Seraphim (Richard Rohlin) on the 4th of July to explore the topic of fairies and titular spirits, especially as it relates to the US. We discuss America’s founding, the myth of Oedipus, heroes and monsters, boundaries of identity, stories of water spirits and crossing into territories, all to ask the question of whether fairies can be saved. As always, we’re weaving together myth, symbolism, and cultural insight to help reveal the patterns behind the stories that shape our world.

Original YouTube version: https://youtu.be/htXHJ1WRSAg

Pre-order our new fairy tale story book, Rapunzel and the Evil Witch: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/products/rapunzel-and-the-evil-witch

COURSE: Scripture: The Key to Reality, presented by Seraphim Hamilton
This course is designed to help students appreciate the unique role the Bible plays in helping us step into the world as it truly is: a symbolic revelation of the Infinite God. Scripture is symbolic because it is a revelation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is the Archetype of the World. In a way, then, Scripture enfolds within itself the totality of the world, guiding its hearers to see an icon of Christ in each of God’s creatures: from trees to beasts to priests.
- Live classes are on Tuesday at 2 - 4 pm Eastern Time, starting June 10th through July 22nd, 2025
- Class Length: 5 sessions, 10 hours total
- Cost: 120 USD (108 USD for Involved patrons)
- Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/scripture-the-key-to-reality

💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:45 - Intro music
02:12 - Introduction
04:22 - Titular spirits
10:03 - Oedipus: From the Bronze age
16:47 - A daemon / titular spirit
18:40 - Heroes becoming spirits
19:54 - The encounter with the Sphinx
21:46 - Killing a monsters
26:41 - Purification and the furies
31:43 - Understanding: Christ the Key
39:37 - America
46:23 - What are fairies
53:15 - Artifacts
58:08 - Magic
01:00:38 - 3 Stories about faeries
01:01:31 - Story 1
01:06:30 - Tying it in with St. Christopher
01:07:25 - Story 2
01:11:32 - Commentary
01:18:02 - Story 3
01:27:08 - American aboriginals

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

I was invited to give this talk on Robin Hood in Nottingham—just a stone’s throw from Sherwood Forest—on the feast of Pentecost. What began as a reflection on a beloved folk hero opened into something deeper: a meditation on rebellion, trickery, legitimacy, and the strange holiness that's possible for jesters and outlaws. In this talk, I explore how Robin Hood, the Green Man, King David, and even figures from Islamic tradition and Arthurian legend, all point toward a surprising truth—that the margins of society can conceal servants of the true King. I hope you enjoy it.

Original YouTube version: https://youtu.be/7Q4LBLmeeMw

COURSE: Scripture: The Key to Reality, presented by Seraphim Hamilton

This course is designed to help students appreciate the unique role the Bible plays in helping us step into the world as it truly is: a symbolic revelation of the Infinite God. Scripture is symbolic because it is a revelation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is the Archetype of the World. In a way, then, Scripture enfolds within itself the totality of the world, guiding its hearers to see an icon of Christ in each of God’s creatures: from trees to beasts to priests.
- Live classes are on Tuesday at 2 - 4 pm Eastern Time, starting June 10th through July 22nd, 2025
- Class Length: 5 sessions, 10 hours total
- Cost: 120 USD (108 USD for Involved patrons)
- Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/scripture-the-key-to-reality

Get early access to Rapunzel and the Evil Witch: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/rapunzel-and-the-evil-witch


💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:30 - Intro music
01:56 - Introduction by Jonathan
03:34 - Introduction: The virtuous rebel
06:10 - Who does Robin Hood resemble?
09:40 - Green
14:25 - A trickster for God
16:39 - David
25:41 - He loses at the edge
39:24 - The Green man: Merlin
45:25 - Q&A starts: St. Christopher
46:39 - Sir Gawain and the Green Knight
48:55 - Maid Marian and the Virgin Mary
49:53 - Difference between giants and monsters
51:20 - Intention
53:01 - Robin Hood in politics
54:10 - Marksmanship
55:54 - Does the end justify the means
57:42 - Is Robin Hood religious?
59:06 - Locations and history
01:01:38 - Humor in Christianity
01:03:20 - Trickery
01:06:46 - What goes around comes around
01:08:15 - Downstream from the Gospel
01:11:44 - Christ vs Robin Hood in history

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

I had the pleasure of speaking with filmmaker Josh David Jordan about his new movie El Tonto Por Cristo. It’s a black-and-white art film set in a Texas monastery — poetic, strange, and deeply moving. What struck me most is how the film weaves together powerful Orthodox imagery, the mystery of the holy fool, all with a totally unique visual language. This isn’t just a message movie — it’s real cinema.
Check out the Kickstarter and be part of bringing this movie to theaters. This is a rare and important project. 
El Tonto Por Cristo: A Cinematic Meditation. An Orthodox film set in a Texas monastery. Help bring this black-and-white story of beauty, holiness, & mystery to theaters worldwide.
https://www.eltontoporcristo.com/
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/748841722/el-tonto-por-cristo-a-cinematic-meditation

Original YouTube version: https://youtu.be/pbM5VN9YvCE

💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

What is spirit? This was one of my most meaningful conversations with John Vervaeke yet. As we prepare for the Midwestuary 2025 conference in Chicago, we explore how beings come into existence, the mystery of unity and multiplicity, and what’s really going on with AI, angels, and the spirit of community. John shares some powerful personal transformations as well. I hope you enjoy this deep dive into spirit, ontology, and meaning.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/hqmSW3SgzHs

Register for the 2025 Midwestuary Conference in Chicago, August 22-24: https://www.midwestuary.com/

NEW COURSE: Scripture: The Key to Reality, presented by Seraphim Hamilton
This course is designed to help students appreciate the unique role the Bible plays in helping us step into the world as it truly is: a symbolic revelation of the Infinite God. Scripture is symbolic because it is a revelation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is the Archetype of the World. In a way, then, Scripture enfolds within itself the totality of the world, guiding its hearers to see an icon of Christ in each of God’s creatures: from trees to beasts to priests.
- Live classes are on Tuesday at 2 - 4 pm Eastern Time, starting June 10th through July 22nd, 2025
- Class Length: 5 sessions, 10 hours total
- Cost: 120 USD (108 USD for Involved patrons)
- Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/scripture-the-key-to-reality

- Get early access to Rapunzel and the Evil Witch: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/rapunzel-and-the-evil-witch
- Symbolism Masterclass course by Jonathan Pageau: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/symbolism-masterclass
- John Vervaeke's course on the Symbolic World, The Cognitive Science of Ritual: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-cognitive-science-of-ritual

00:00 - Intro by Jonathan
01:25 - Intro music
01:50 - Midwestuary conference details
03:42 - What is Spirit?
05:21 - John's response
08:22 - Fellowship
11:00 - Jonathan's response
13:34 - Why it's hard to think about unity and multiplicity
16:35 - Dualism in spirit
18:32 - Modern false dichotomies
24:19 - Jonathan: Spirit outside of minds?
30:57 - Are there non-psychological spirits?
33:42 - Gathered in man
35:55 - Reduction can go both ways
37:35 - The seat of self-consciousness
42:01 - A human centered view
43:36 - John: The standard of realness
49:30 - An embodied world for everyone
56:17 - Porosity between science and myth
01:00:39 - Breath
01:02:05 - A post-Kantian vision
01:05:52 - Exampting and group identity
01:10:40 - Liturgy and team spirit
01:17:48 - Are spirits just psychological?
01:20:26 - Prophesy
01:27:43 - How do we use technology?
01:34:01 - AI

🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

In this talk at the Orthodox Arts Festival of 2025, I share my vision for a renewal of Orthodox Christian art rooted in meaningful participation and true celebration. We are living through the collapse of modern aesthetics—art has become propaganda, entertainment, and distraction. But this cultural decomposition presents an opportunity for something truly transformative.

Orthodox art offers a profound alternative: not art as consumption or rebellion, but as participation, celebration, and enlightenment. Drawing on my work in children's literature, icon carving, and popular storytelling, I explore how we can reintegrate beauty, memory, and the sacred into every level of artistic creation—from liturgy to fairy tales.

If you're an artist, a parent, or simply someone longing for a more meaningful creative world, I invite you to join me in rediscovering what art is really for—and how it can lead us back to God.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/WkQ1PP421nM
🕯️ Discover our books, courses, and more at http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
📖 Get early access to Rapunzel and the Evil Witch: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/rapunzel-and-the-evil-witch

NEW COURSE: Scripture: The Key to Reality, presented by Seraphim Hamilton
This course is designed to help students appreciate the unique role the Bible plays in helping us step into the world as it truly is: a symbolic revelation of the Infinite God. Scripture is symbolic because it is a revelation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is the Archetype of the World. In a way, then, Scripture enfolds within itself the totality of the world, guiding its hearers to see an icon of Christ in each of God’s creatures: from trees to beasts to priests.
- Live classes are on Tuesday at 2 - 4 pm Eastern Time, starting June 10th through July 15th, 2025
- Class Length: 5 sessions, 10 hours total
- Cost: 120 USD (108 USD for Involved patrons)
- Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/scripture-the-key-to-reality

🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

In this conversation, I sit down with composer and church musician Nicholas Reeves to explore one of the great mysteries: music. Why does music move us so deeply? How does it reflect symbolic patterns in reality? We discuss the ancient and modern roles of music—from sacred liturgies to EDM dance floors—and ask whether the liturgy might be the ultimate artwork. We also dive into the contrasts between order and chaos in sound, the compression of human experience, and the sacred role of communal participation in worship. This discussion really opened new paths for me—I hope it does the same for you.
Nicholas’s work can be found at: https://www.nicholasreevesmusic.com
YouTube version: https://youtu.be/26ORdueGcIo

NEW COURSE: Scripture: The Key to Reality, presented by Seraphim Hamilton
This course is designed to help students appreciate the unique role the Bible plays in helping us step into the world as it truly is: a symbolic revelation of the Infinite God. Scripture is symbolic because it is a revelation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is the Archetype of the World. In a way, then, Scripture enfolds within itself the totality of the world, guiding its hearers to see an icon of Christ in each of God’s creatures: from trees to beasts to priests.
🗓 Live classes are on Tuesday at 2 - 4 pm Eastern Time, starting June 10th through July 15th, 2025
⏰ Class Length: 5 sessions, 10 hours total
💰 Register for Seraphim Hamilton's course before the end of May to get 15% off when you use the code EARLYSCRIP1 at checkout. 
💰 Cost: 120 USD (102 USD with the discount)
👉 Register Today: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/scripture-the-key-to-reality 

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:29 - Intro music
01:55 - Introduction
02:50 - Understanding ourselves through music
10:22 - The human voice
18:56 - Rhythm
21:11 - Dance and what music is
24:40 - Variety and sameness
32:08 - Reinventing yourself
35:21 - Church music
43:57 - Continuity
46:56 - Moments in liturgy
49:30 - Music in America
54:54 - The complete work of art
59:14 - Making pop culture more participative

💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

In this conversation, I talk with Seraphim Hamilton about how scripture does more than tell a story—it reveals a symbolic pattern that runs through all of creation. We dig into how the Bible presents the world as a kind of cosmic temple, and how that vision unfolds through the Tabernacle, the life of Christ, and the Church.

Seraphim brings a deep knowledge of scripture and tradition to the table, and we touch on some of the key themes he'll be exploring in his upcoming course, Scripture: The Key to Reality. If you’ve been following my work on symbolism and biblical patterns, I think you’ll find this conversation both grounded and illuminating.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/PpGKURlGayA

NEW COURSE: Scripture: The Key to Reality, presented by Seraphim Hamilton
This course is designed to help students appreciate the unique role the Bible plays in helping us step into the world as it truly is: a symbolic revelation of the Infinite God. Scripture is symbolic because it is a revelation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is the Archetype of the World. In a way, then, Scripture enfolds within itself the totality of the world, guiding its hearers to see an icon of Christ in each of God’s creatures: from trees to beasts to priests.
🗓 Live classes are on Tuesday at 2 - 4 pm Eastern Time, starting June 10th through July 15th, 2025
⏰ Class Length: 5 sessions, 10 hours total
💰 Register for Seraphim Hamilton's course before the end of May to get 15% off when you use the code EARLYSCRIP1 at checkout. 
💰 Cost: 120 USD (102 USD with the discount)
👉 Register Today: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/scripture-the-key-to-reality 

Seraphim Hamilton is an Orthodox Christian biblical commentator who explores the richness of Christ as He is unveiled in the Old and New Testaments. He has a Master of Arts in Early Christian Studies and a Master of Theology from Duke University. His thesis addressed the relationship between the theology of the Divine Name in Exodus and the writings of St. Dionysius the Areopagite. He is recently married with one daughter and produces regular reflections on Scripture on both Substack and YouTube.
Writings: https://seraphimhamilton.substack.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/kabane 
Patreon: https://patreon.com/c/kabane

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:23 - Intro music
01:49 - Introduction
02:43 - Scripture is the key to reality
09:17 - What's the difference between Christianity and Pantheism?
13:14 - Why the need for the Tabernacle?
16:56 - Dominion in the fall
21:23 - Cain vs Noah
25:27 - Universal History
26:24 - No temple in the Heavenly Jerusalem
29:57 - Converging on the same patterns
31:38 - Critical analysis of the Bible
37:27 - Second Temple literature
42:32 - Fractal breathing
47:36 - Transfigured clothing

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💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe 
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/