The Unscripted SEO Interview Podcast

The Unscripted SEO Interview Podcast

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The Unscripted SEO Interview Podcast episodes

  • Matt Slaymaker: Surprising Reason Why Small Businesses Often Fail with Ads

    This episode features Jeremy Rivera and digital marketing expert Matthew Slaymaker discussing actionable strategies for small businesses, the evolving landscape of digital ads, and leveraging AI tools for marketing efficiency. Whether you're running ads, optimizing your website, or navigating new platforms, this conversation offers practical insights to boost your marketing ROI.

    Key Topics:
    • The importance of website conversion rates before launching paid advertising
    • How organic and paid traffic interact and influence each other
    • The shift towards zero-click searches and its impact on organic CTR
    • Latest trends in AI-driven advertising, including ChatGPT integrations and platforms like AppLeaven
    • How creative quality influences ad success, especially on Facebook and Google
    • Targeting strategies on different platforms, emphasizing broad vs. niche targeting
    • Tracking calls and conversions effectively using tools like Call Rail and What Converts
    • The significance of genuine brand storytelling and demonstrating values through content
    • Managing social media presence without feeling forced—focusing on authentic channels like LinkedIn
    • Agency growth through referrals, strategic partnerships, and overcoming inbound marketing challenges
    • Mentioned in this episode: PureAire Monitoring — the oxygen & gas monitoring company behind Jeremy’s “boring industrial product” example.

      Timestamps:


      00:01 - Introduction and guest credibility
      01:24 - Common mistakes small businesses make with ads
      02:12 - The importance of website optimization before ad spend
      03:07 - Impact of AI on SEO and website optimization
      04:30 - The evolution of AI tools like ChatGPT for advertising
      06:08 - New features in Google ads enabling direct checkout
      07:13 - Access and limitations of ChatGPT for advertisers
      12:05 - Using Google My Business and local signals for ranking
      14:05 - Tracking call conversions with tools like Call Rail
      19:41 - The role of engagement metrics in ad platform algorithms
      21:17 - Creative as a primary driver in ad success
      23:54 - Creative testing and diversity on Meta
      26:25 - Marketing interesting, even boring, products through storytelling
      29:30 - The pressure on SMBs to create video content for TikTok
      36:37 - Leveraging AI for agentic marketing and workflow automation
      41:44 - Agency growth challenges and inbound lead generation
      45:35 - Repurposing podcast content for SEO and lead nurturing
      47:22 - The irreplaceable value of human conversation and experience

      Resources & Links:
      • Call Rail
      • What Converts
      • Slaymaker Marketing
      • SEO Arcade Podcast
      • Royal (Content Repurposing Tool)
      • Google My Business
      • Connect with Matt Slaymaker:
        • LinkedIn
        • Website
        • 52 min
        • Drew Dorenfest: How a Hollywood Video Editor Built an SEO Business from Scratch

          Drew Dorenfest cut trailers in Hollywood for Netflix, Apple and Warner Brothers before he touched SEO. The transferable skill turned out to be compression: taking something unwieldy and reducing it to three sentences a scanning human will actually finish. His central claim is smaller and sharper than the usual citation advice. Cite your sources, and the crawler gets something to check you against.

          Key takeaways
          • Citing sources is the mechanism for being cited. Outbound links to verifiable authorities give a crawler a way to confirm you, which is not the same thing as link equity.
          • Specific depth beats national authority on narrow queries. A Los Angeles tax firm above IRS.gov, HR Block and TurboTax inside two weeks.
          • Conversions are the only metric an owner can feel. Nobody experiences a traffic increase. They experience the phone ringing.
          • The about page is the entity home. Without one, you are a topic rather than a known thing.
          • Regulated content needs a human reviewer, not a disclaimer. Every post for the tax firm is reviewed by its own professionals before publication.
          • On this page
            • Cite your sources to earn citations
            • Depth beats authority on narrow queries
            • The only metric an owner can feel
            • The about page, and not rebranding to escape
            • Chapters and timestamps
            • People, ideas and sources mentioned
            • Questions this episode answers
            • Go deeper
            • Cite your sources to earn citations

              The key to all of this, especially to get cited, is to cite your sources. To point to Google, this is where I got this information. Then when those crawlers come and they check against your information, they see the source, they can verify it. Then they go, okay, this is legit.

              — Drew Dorenfest

              In practice that means linking to IRS.gov and to the underlying research instead of asserting the number and moving on. The mechanism is verifiability, not authority flow, which is why the advice survives regardless of what any particular system does with links this year.

              Depth beats authority on narrow queries

              The student loan interest deduction post ranked above IRS.gov, above HR Block, above TurboTax within two weeks. A small tax firm in Los Angeles and Las Vegas, above national brands, because that content depth at that level of specificity simply is not there on those bigger sites.

              — Drew Dorenfest

              The part people skip when they copy this is the part that makes it work. The content was reviewed by the firm’s own tax professionals before it went live, and he holds the same line on health claims.

              Every piece of content I create for them is reviewed by the firm’s tax professionals before it goes live. I will not publish something that is wrong.

              — Drew Dorenfest
              The only metric an owner can feel

              Conversions are the only metric I care about. Traffic is nice, but conversions, more sales is something that the business owner can feel. They can’t feel when they get more traffic. They can feel when they make more sales, they get more emails, more calls.

              — Drew Dorenfest

              That is a reporting principle before it is a strategy one. If a piece of work cannot be traced to something the owner experiences inside the business, it does not belong in the update.

              Businesses get really in the weeds assuming visitors will read every paragraph. They treat the website like something behind glass, a beautiful artifact someone helped them design ten years ago. A website should be an ever-evolving tool.

              — Drew Dorenfest

              The trailer-editor lens again. People scan for thirty seconds, so the job is compression rather than completeness.

              The about page, and not rebranding to escape

              Have an about page. Make it good. That is my number one piece of advice for any business.

              — Drew Dorenfest

              Without one, both Google and the models treat the brand as a topic or a query rather than a known entity. The host’s savefryoil.com example is the failure case, a name that reads as a generic search string.

              Fewer people are searching your brand name than you think, and the ones who do know the difference. Do not rename a brand with existing equity just to seem more unique.

              — Drew Dorenfest

              His client was fixated on a similarly named Florida competitor selling a different product. The real competition was everyone else in the category, and a rebrand would have cost the equity while solving nothing.

              Chapters
              TimeWhat happens
              00:00From Hollywood trailers into SEO
              02:28How video editing shapes his approach to a page
              04:17Starting and scaling Client Magnet CRM
              05:45Local service SEO and technical audits
              09:06Homepage CTAs and micro-conversions
              10:28Brand and branded search
              12:55Citing sources and building rankable authority
              14:41Connecting in-person community work to online authority
              17:27Retention and re-engagement through email
              21:36Rebranding pitfalls and brand equity
              28:14Regulated industries and compliance
              30:45How to connect with Drew
              People, ideas and sources mentioned
              EntityWhat it is
              Client Magnet CRMHis business: SEO, email marketing and review generation for small businesses
              Drew DorenfestTrailer and promo editor for Netflix, Apple and Warner Brothers before moving into SEO
              GoHighLevelThe automation stack behind his post-service review requests and abandoned-cart sequences
              YMYLYour Money or Your Life, the category his tax and health clients fall into
              savefryoil.comThe host's example of a brand name that reads as a generic query rather than an entity
              Questions this episode answers
              • How do I get my content cited by ChatGPT and other LLMs?
              • Does linking out to sources help or hurt my SEO?
              • Can a small business outrank national brands on specific queries?
              • What metric should I report to a small business owner?
              • Why does my business need an about page?
              • Should I rebrand if Google does not recognise my business?
              • What changes when I write content in a regulated industry?
              • Go deeper

                Every link above goes somewhere different. These are the ones not already mentioned above.

                • why your about page is an entity problem rather than a copy problem, and what happens to a brand name once other people start ranking for it.
                • the case for depth over volume, from the other end of the industry, where information gain replaces publishing at scale.
                • a plain-text edition of this interview, built for language models, with each claim carrying the name of whoever made it.
                • Find Drew Dorenfest

                  clientmagnetcrm.com.

                  Cite this episode

                  Dorenfest, Drew. Interviewed by Jeremy Rivera. “On Getting Verified By Crawlers.” The Unscripted SEO Podcast, 7 August 2026. https://unscriptedseo.com/drew-dorenfest-on-getting-verified-by-crawlers/

                  32 min
                • Grant Simmons: Entity Optimization, the LLM petri dish & more
                  Episode Highlights:
                  • Grant Simmons shares his unconventional journey from 1980s programming to becoming a top SEO strategist, emphasizing the importance of foundational practices.
                  • Recent SEO trends like entity SEO, entity maps, and Google's evolving understanding layers—comparing Google’s approach to Large Language Models (LLMs)—are discussed.
                  • The significance of schema markup: its role in grounding search results, its impact on AI and LLMs, and best practices for implementation.
                  • How SEO tools leverage data like Google Search Console and Log File Analysis to refine strategies; discussion on tools like Market Brew, SEO Crawl, and the importance of first-party data.
                  • The challenges and opportunities in SEO attribution, reporting, and measuring real impact amidst evolving algorithms and AI influences.
                  • The industry’s salivation over new tech like AR, Self-driving cars, and the “beta testing culture” where poor launches are accepted as part of innovation.
                  • Grant reflects on his experience at Homes.com, algorithm penalties, and recovery strategies—highlighting the importance of aggressive, foundational SEO efforts.
                  • The industry’s shift from “golden age of easy wins” to embracing complexity, with an emphasis on outcome-based SEO and understanding user engagement.
                  • How SEOs should adapt budgets for emerging AI and LLM-related services, integrating them as an extension rather than a replacement for traditional SEO.
                  • The importance of continuous testing, validation, and building innovative tools to better interpret data, including future focuses like Log File Analysis and tracking user paths for actionable insights.
                  • Grant’s current work at Fiat Growth and his openness to collaboration and beta testing new SEO tools and strategies.
                  • Article Recap on Waikay by Grant
                  • Watch the interview 
                  • Why You Should Listen:

                    This episode brings a seasoned SEO veteran's perspective—highlighting the evolving landscape of search engines, LLMs, and strategic priorities for modern SEOs. Whether you're interested in technical strategies, industry trends, or innovative tools, Grant's insights contribute a practical, experience-backed viewpoint.

                    Main Topics:
                    • Entity SEO and Knowledge Graphs
                    • Schema Markup & Semantic Optimization
                    • SEO Data, Tools, and Log File Analysis
                    • AI, LLMs, and Their Impact on Search
                    • Industry Evolution & Future Trends
                    • Timestamps:

                      00:00 - Welcome and episode overview
                      02:13 - Recent SEO shifts and unique site issues
                      03:23 - Entity SEO and the new standard: Entity Map
                      05:50 - Google’s grounding strategies and LLMs
                      07:35 - Schema markup: value and best practices
                      09:45 - The role of entity graphs in fighting hallucinations
                      11:20 - Comparing Google’s knowledge layer and LLMs
                      13:30 - Schema’s influence on AI and search categorization
                      15:25 - The importance of knowledge layers and disambiguation
                      16:55 - Future of AI and entity-based understanding in search
                      19:00 - Industry challenges with beta software testing culture
                      21:17 - Recovery stories: Homes.com Panda penalty case
                      23:00 - The evolving complexity of SEO tools and strategies
                      26:00 - Data-driven decision making and user engagement metrics
                      30:30 - The importance of strategic budgets for AI and LLMs
                      33:00 - Future developments: Log file analysis & user path tracking
                      37:00 - Grant’s current projects and contact info

                      Resources & Links:
                      • Inlinks - Entity SEO tools
                      • Market Brew - Search engine simulation platform
                      • seoCrawl - Historical search data analysis
                      • app slicer - Tools for leveraging Google Search Console data
                      • Grant Simmons on LinkedIn
                      • Grant Simmons on Twitter/X
                      • Fiat Growth - Growth marketing agency
                      • Digital Christian Collaborative in Cookeville
                      • Connect with Grant:
                        • LinkedIn
                        • Twitter/X
                        • app slicer
                        • Upcoming Events:
                          • SMX Boston, SEO panel with industry leaders
                          • Digital Summit Denver
                          • SEO in San Diego, September
                          • Stay ahead of SEO's next frontier—embrace innovation, validated data strategies, and continuous testing to stay competitive in evolving search landscapes.

                            1 hr
                          • Joe Zeplin Went From Corpo To Youtuber & So Can You

                            Join Jeremy Rivera as he chats with Joe Zeppelin, a former corporate leader turned full-time YouTuber, about navigating career transitions, leveraging AI tools, and building successful digital brands. Discover actionable insights on automation, content creation, and monetization strategies tailored for small business owners and aspiring creators.

                            In this episode:
                            • Joe shares his background in industrial engineering and corporate leadership, including how AI automates project management and sales processes
                            • Practical steps to transition from corporate work to independent content creation
                            • Exploring AI tools like Claude and ChatGPT for business automation and content production
                            • Building a personal brand through YouTube, social media, and SEO—tips for creators and small business owners
                            • Monetization options on platforms like YouTube, TikTok, and through affiliate marketing and sponsorships
                            • The importance of repurposing content into blogs, PDFs, and slide decks for SEO and lead generation
                            • Understanding AI limitations, hallucinations, and how to mitigate risks when using tools for decision-making and content creation
                            • Tips for niche content engagement, from karate to board games, emphasizing passion-driven branding
                            • Timestamps:


                              00:00 - Introduction: From corporate job to full-time YouTuber
                              00:20 - Joe's journey from CEO roles to digital entrepreneurship
                              01:00 - The corporate world and frustrations leading to the career leap
                              02:00 - Using AI for business automation and content creation
                              03:00 - Building a personal brand through YouTube and social media
                              04:00 - Monetization paths: AdSense, sponsorships, and affiliate marketing
                              05:00 - Repurposing video content into blogs, PDFs, and lead magnets
                              06:00 - Managing AI hallucinations and reliability issues
                              07:00 - Strategies for niche content success (karate, board games, fishing)
                              08:00 - Creating a content marketing funnel and engagement strategies
                              09:00 - The impact of AI on knowledge sharing and creator empowerment
                              10:00 - Final thoughts: continuous learning and passion pursuit

                              Resources & Links:
                              • Claude AI (Official platform)
                              • ChatGPT (Official platform)
                              • Meta AI (Facebook AI model)
                              • VidIQ (YouTube SEO tool)
                              • Keyword Surfer (Keyword research browser extension)
                              • Metrical (Social media scheduler)
                              • Obsidian (Note-taking & knowledge management software)
                              • Uproot HQ (Memory layer app for long-term knowledge storage, upcoming release)
                              • Joe Zeppelin - LinkedIn | Twitter | Website
                              • Jeremy Rivera
                              • Connect with Joe Zeppelin:
                                • LinkedIn - Joe Zeppelin
                                • Twitter - @JoZeppelin
                                • Website - jozeppelin.com
                                • Note:

                                  This episode provides a comprehensive look into leveraging AI tools for small businesses and content creators, emphasizing passion-driven branding, operational automation, and strategic content repurposing.

                                  1 hr 6 min
                                • Greg Digneo on Why Visibility Is the New SEO (And What That Means for Your Agency)
                                  Visibility Is the New SEO: Greg Digneo on Flipping the Budget

                                  Jeremy Rivera talks with Greg Digneo, founder of Content Guppy, about why brand visibility now does the work SEO used to do, and why most agencies have the budget backwards. Greg previously led SEO at Time Doctor and builds content from interviews rather than keyword research.

                                  Greg's point about prospects who "heard us on a podcast" anchors Podcasting Is the Fastest SEO Channel Right Now on SEO Arcade.

                                  In this episode:
                                  • Why branded query volume is the indicator of visibility work, not the goal
                                  • Revenue as the only real metric, and what to do when analytics was never installed
                                  • Where AI genuinely helps, and why it cannot replace the outreach and relationship layer
                                  • The interview-first content model: SME, sales and customer sessions before any writing
                                  • The $60K question: traditional SEO spend versus influencer and podcast budget
                                  • Links versus mentions, and where that argument actually lands
                                  • The Nexus Document, a framework for collaborative marketing and audience leverage
                                  • Full write-up and takeaways: Visibility Is the New SEO on Unscripted SEO.

                                    Timestamps:

                                    0:00 – Intro: why Greg almost rebranded Content Guppy
                                    1:09 – What Content Guppy actually does: brand visibility for B2B SaaS
                                    1:34 – Visibility is the new SEO: the case against the old playbook
                                    4:22 – Revenue as the only real metric
                                    8:42 – Why AI can’t replace the outreach and relationship layer
                                    11:57 – The interview-first content model
                                    20:44 – The $60K question: SEO spend vs. influencer and podcast budget
                                    26:13 – Gmail and LLMs: the Garrett Sussman personalization study
                                    31:19 – Links vs. mentions: where the argument lands
                                    38:32 – The Nexus Document and collaborative marketing
                                    44:59 – The agentic layer: what Greg wants to see next

                                    Referenced in this episode:
                                    • Garrett Sussman’s Google Personal Intelligence experiment at iPullRank
                                    • Connect with Greg Digneo:
                                      • contentguppy.com
                                      • Greg Digneo on LinkedIn
                                      • 49 min
                                      • Why Most Freelancers Fail at Scaling

                                        Explore practical frameworks and insights for agency owners and freelancers to scale sustainably, improve systems, and align their mindset with success. Colby Wegter shares actionable strategies from his experience helping six-figure agencies reach seven figures while working fewer hours.

                                        Key topics:
                                        • The importance of self-scale and personal boundaries for agency growth
                                        • Using calendar curation and visual tools to increase productivity
                                        • The "Automate, Delegate, Eliminate" approach for task management
                                        • Shifting from hourly pricing to value-based models
                                        • Leverage scalable, effective content marketing (like through podcasts)
                                        • Communication strategies that manage client expectations effectively
                                        • The role of identity, energy, and trust in long-term client relationships
                                        • Navigating SEO complexities through people-first systems
                                        • Building a long-term agency mindset beyond technical skills
                                        • Timestamps:

                                          00:00 - Introduction and Colby Wegter's background in digital marketing
                                          00:35 - The challenges of running an agency and initial problem areas
                                          01:05 - Framework: Starting with personal time and self-scale
                                          01:42 - The dangers of overworking and mental health stories
                                          02:20 - Creating systems for founders to foster work-life balance
                                          02:56 - Identifying core fears driving unhealthy behaviors
                                          03:44 - Calendar curation and visual management for productivity
                                          04:28 - Reducing low-leverage activities using color-coded calendars
                                          05:13 - Applying simple systems: automation, elimination, delegation
                                          05:52 - The importance of data and opportunity filtering in agency work
                                          06:46 - The mindset shift toward prioritizing joy and results in tasks
                                          07:08 - Porting concepts from agency to freelancing and solopreneurship
                                          07:58 - How SEOs can apply systematized processes effectively
                                          08:48 - The 20% rule: investing in experimentation and efficiency
                                          09:39 - Differentiating local SEO services in a competitive landscape
                                          10:03 - Systems for managing overwhelmed solo entrepreneurs
                                          10:53 - Warren Buffett’s advice on saying 'no' to focus on key opportunities
                                          11:17 - Reducing feast-and-famine cycles in small agencies
                                          11:50 - Declaring focus by narrowing service offerings and expertise
                                          12:20 - The power of opportunity filtering and boundaries on service scope
                                          13:12 - Moving away from hourly billing and towards productized, value-based pricing
                                          13:47 - Communication of value: results over hours or tactics
                                          14:35 - Selling transformation, not just deliverables
                                          15:10 - Packaging multi-channel marketing plans at premium prices
                                          16:01 - The importance of perpetual value in SEO projects
                                          17:19 - Managing client expectations around long-term SEO results
                                          18:46 - Content timelines, content efforts, and realistic SEO benchmarks
                                          20:08 - Recognizing the inherent unpredictability and algorithm changes
                                          21:09 - The importance of transparency, trust, and client education
                                          22:44 - Building long-term client relationships through honesty about SEO’s nature
                                          24:08 - The significance of ongoing communication, dashboards, and managing expectations
                                          25:53 - The pyramid approach: levels from money, time, energy to identity
                                          36:10 - Understanding client priorities and aligning your services accordingly
                                          37:40 - Selling the identity and leadership transformation, not just SEO
                                          39:16 - The power of empathy and client-centric messaging in growth
                                          42:52 - Genuine client care as a foundation for long-term success
                                          43:41 - Colby Wegter’s resources and how to connect with him

                                          Resources & Links:
                                          • Colby Wegter on LinkedIn
                                          • Colby Wegter on Instagram
                                          • YouTube channel of Colby Wegter
                                          • 45 min
                                          • Brittany Trafis: AI Search as a New Channel Beyond SEO

                                            The line Brittany Trafis keeps coming back to is that AI search is not SEO 2.0. She built Soarion Digital as an AI-native agency rather than an agency with AI bolted onto the side, and she has a test for whether yours has done the same. Ask three questions past the pitch and see what is underneath.

                                            Key takeaways
                                            • Treat it as a channel, not a version number. Her analogy is running Facebook ads exactly like Google ads and wondering why nothing works.
                                            • Schema matters again, for a different reason. Not validation for its own sake, but what the markup tells a model that is in a hurry.
                                            • Monitoring tools are a signal, not a measurement. Her one hard data point is referral traffic that actually landed on the site.
                                            • AI search is the first channel in years where a small business genuinely starts level. She has clients with a quarter of a competitor’s budget showing up more often.
                                            • Rebuild the workflow, do not retrofit it. Steps that ran to twenty-five now run to about four, because she started from what it should be.
                                            • On this page
                                              • A new channel, not a new version
                                              • What schema is for now
                                              • Monitoring is a signal, not a measurement
                                              • Why small businesses are actually in this race
                                              • Chapters and timestamps
                                              • People, ideas and sources mentioned
                                              • Questions this episode answers
                                              • Go deeper
                                              • A new channel, not a new version

                                                The number one piece I say is AI search is not SEO 2.0.

                                                — Brittany Trafis

                                                She is not dismissing the foundation. Keywords, technical health and links still underpin the whole thing, and she says so first. The objection is to treating the new surface as an extension of the old one and then measuring it with the old scoreboard.

                                                It would almost be like when Facebook ads came out, if you were to say, I’m just going to run it like Google ads. Well, that wouldn’t work.

                                                — Brittany Trafis

                                                Her diagnostic for buyers is the useful part. If your agency says it has AI search covered, ask three more questions. She thinks the answers will reveal an SEO programme with a new label on the invoice.

                                                What schema is for now

                                                The most practical stretch of the interview is about markup, and it inverts twenty years of habit. Google trained the industry to satisfy a rigid specification. A model is reading for meaning and moving fast.

                                                What the LLM cares about is what is that schema telling me?

                                                — Brittany Trafis

                                                An FAQ block is the example she keeps returning to, because a question and its answer are exactly the shape of the thing being looked for. Adjusting schema, she says, can move citation rates quickly, which is not something anyone has been able to say about markup for years.

                                                Now, if your schema is not set up correctly and it’s timing out, then it’s gonna move on and it’s going to ignore you.

                                                — Brittany Trafis

                                                The other observation worth taking away is about speed. She watches agents crawl client pages within hours of publication, while Google is still weeks behind on recognising the same change.

                                                Monitoring is a signal, not a measurement

                                                It is the wild wild west right now. And we are watching this channel be born.

                                                — Brittany Trafis

                                                The channel does not have an agreed name yet, and it certainly does not have reporting. She is careful about the distinction between monitoring tools, which prompt the models and record what comes back, and data, which nobody is being given.

                                                Her caveat is the responsible one and worth repeating to any client staring at a visibility score: results are personalised, two people asking the same question get different answers, and the number is directional.

                                                Look at your web analytics as your final source.

                                                — Brittany Trafis

                                                That’s the soundest data point that you can get at this point.

                                                — Brittany Trafis

                                                If you want to check what the models are currently repeating about a brand rather than what a dashboard says, the audit routine for reading model consensus is the manual version.

                                                Why small businesses are actually in this race

                                                I love AI Search for small businesses because it is a new channel. It put us all at the starting line together.

                                                — Brittany Trafis

                                                This is the part small business owners should hear. The usual answer to I cannot outrank the big competitor is a polite version of no. Here her answer is that she has clients on a quarter of a competitor’s paid budget who are showing up more often, because they moved faster and had a strategy.

                                                Just because you’re small, don’t put yourself out of the race. You’re actually already in the race and could be ahead of these larger guys.

                                                — Brittany Trafis

                                                Her content prescription for a boring category is structural rather than creative. Definitions, comparisons, pros and cons, then a point of view, laid out cleanly enough that a model can lift the answer whole. The person putting a cement wall in their garden does not find it boring.

                                                Chapters
                                                TimeWhat happens
                                                00:01Jeremy introduces Brittany Trafis of Soarion Digital
                                                00:43Her path from restaurants into marketing
                                                05:48AI search is not SEO 2.0
                                                07:15Schema for models versus Google’s rigid rules
                                                11:29Building an AI-native agency with shorter workflows
                                                17:35Turning repeated prompts into reusable skills
                                                20:49Monitoring tools give signal, not real data
                                                25:08ChatGPT ads and the missing metrics
                                                28:08Why AI search levels the field for small businesses
                                                30:18Structuring content so a model can pull an answer
                                                33:37Where humans stay in the workflow
                                                35:05Where to find Brittany, and her open question
                                                People, ideas and sources mentioned
                                                EntityWhat it is
                                                Soarion DigitalHer AI-native marketing agency, built AI-first rather than retrofitted
                                                AEO, GEO, AIOThe competing names the industry is still arguing over for the same channel
                                                Monitoring toolsThird-party prompt trackers, which she treats as directional signal rather than data
                                                Definitions, comparisons, pros and cons, point of viewHer four structural components for content a model can lift an answer from
                                                Her own recap of this episodePublished on the Soarion Digital blog
                                                Brittany Trafis on LinkedInWhere she posts most, and where she takes questions
                                                Questions this episode answers
                                                • Is AI search just SEO with a new name?
                                                • Does schema markup still matter for AI search?
                                                • How fast do AI crawlers pick up new content compared to Google?
                                                • Can I trust AI visibility monitoring tools?
                                                • What is the most reliable way to measure AI search results?
                                                • Can a small business compete in AI search against a larger competitor?
                                                • How should I structure content so an AI can use it as an answer?
                                                • Go deeper

                                                  Every link above goes somewhere different. These are the ones not already mentioned above.

                                                  • Jason Barnard on the training set and the retrieval layer, the framework Jeremy puts to her and she agrees with.
                                                  • Jason Wade calling AI search table stakes, quoted back at her mid-episode.
                                                  • Nick Eubanks on putting AI at the brief stage rather than the writing stage, the workflow question she answers at the end.
                                                  • Find Brittany Trafis

                                                    soariondigital.com, and she is a regular on the marketing AI conference circuit, including the one in her own city.

                                                    Cite this episode

                                                    Trafis, Brittany. Interviewed by Jeremy Rivera. “AI Search as a New Channel Beyond SEO.” Unscripted SEO, 2026. https://unscriptedseo.com/brittany-trafis-ai-search-is-not-seo-2-0-unscripted-seo-podcast/

                                                    38 min
                                                  • Distribution Is the Only Remaining Moat When Execution Becomes Infinite — Nick Eubanks on What Survives the AI Era

                                                    In this episode of the Unscripted Small Business Podcast, Jeremy Rivera sits down with Nick Eubanks — a 2007-vintage SEO who sold Traffic Think Tank to SEMrush, spent three years building their media program into an eight-figure-a-year operation, and is now Global CMO at Digistore24, the world's largest affiliate network with 950,000 vendors and 5 million users.

                                                    Jeremy has since shipped a weight-tracking app of his own, The Body Arcade: one person, one weekend, no calorie counting, the same collapsed bar to build that Nick describes.

                                                    This is a veteran-to-veteran conversation about what's actually changed in SEO, what hasn't, and where the defensible opportunities still live in a world where AI has commoditized execution.

                                                    In This Episode
                                                    • Why Nick came out of retirement — the real story, and what buying two agencies in one week taught him about paying for experience
                                                    • Why this is the fifth time SEO has "died" — and why this one might actually stick
                                                    • The golden age of organic traffic (2010–2020) and why it's definitively over
                                                    • What the Helpful Content Update actually changed — entity graphs, distance-to-seed, brand signals in Search Console, and whether HCU was prep for AI Overviews
                                                    • Why podcasting is Jeremy's one-word answer for link building — and the strategy behind the SEO Arcade white-label podcast service
                                                    • How Digistore24's seller-of-record model handles VAT across 38 EU countries and tax nexus across all U.S. states so vendors can focus on selling
                                                    • Why affiliates are having a renaissance in the LLM era — and which social channels suddenly matter that didn't before
                                                    • The AI content workflow most agencies have completely backwards — and what the right order actually is (human brief → AI draft → human edit)
                                                    • Nick's "brand brain" concept — a layered AI pipeline: always-on brand entity → regional compliance → channel → persona, producing high-volume non-slop content at scale
                                                    • Why the pretense that agencies were doing high-quality content before AI is "a bit rich"
                                                    • "Distribution is the only remaining moat when execution becomes infinite" — and why expertise still creates some defensibility. Related: SEO Forecasting 101
                                                    • The Will Smith spaghetti litmus test for AI video quality, and what weekly improvement looks like inside a Gen.AI video agency
                                                    • Nick's GLP-1 muscle protection app — built and deployed to the App Store in 12 hours on a Sunday
                                                    • Why the barrier to building has essentially collapsed — and the new class of makers coming because of it
                                                    • The SEO Arcade origin story — Jeremy's $500 Rand Fishkin pixel fighter wizard, and how the same idea can now be done in minutes with AI
                                                    • Key Quotes

                                                      "Distribution is the only remaining moat when execution becomes infinite."— Nick Eubanks"The fast-forward button is very real. I'm so happy now to just pay for experience — things that I wish my younger version of my ego would have let me do."— Nick Eubanks"I think this is the fifth time SEO has died in my career. I do think this is actually the nail in the coffin for what SEO was originally conceived as."— Nick Eubanks

                                                      Connect with Nick
                                                      • Digistore24 — the world's largest affiliate marketplace
                                                      • Nick Eubanks on Twitter/X
                                                      • Digistore24 on Twitter/X
                                                      • agencygrowthengine.org — free agency training resources
                                                      • Resources Mentioned
                                                        • SEO Arcade White-Label Podcast Service
                                                        • How a Podcast Generates Links, Content, Audience, Citations, and Authority
                                                        • The Evolution from Traditional SEO to Multi-Channel Marketing
                                                        • The Revenue-First SEO Strategy That's Actually Working
                                                        • Opportunity Sizing in SEO
                                                        • SEO Forecasting 101: Methods, Metrics, Tools, and Challenges
                                                        • Why Every Business Should Start a Podcast Tomorrow
                                                        • Related Episodes
                                                          • Jason Wade — What AI Visibility Really Means and Why It's Not a Buzzword
                                                          • Alejandro Meyerhans — The Science and Strategy of Link Building
                                                          • Brandon Leibowitz — Schema, AI Overviews, and the Long Game in SEO
                                                          • Charlie Sells — Why Branded SEO Actually Matters and How SEOs Keep Missing It
                                                          • About the Show

                                                            The Unscripted Small Business Podcast is hosted by Jeremy Rivera and features unfiltered conversations with entrepreneurs, marketers, and operators about what's actually working in business today. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

                                                            41 min
                                                          • Stop Putting AI Gradients on Every Feature - George Little, BrandZap

                                                            "Stop putting AI gradients on every feature you have," says George Little, who runs BrandZap, a consultancy that builds brands and websites for B2B companies, mostly in SaaS. His point: say what the AI actually does for your users, or you sound like every other tool built on the same API.

                                                            George came into marketing from architecture, moved into business-to-business graphic design, and now positions BrandZap between the freelancer you know and the big agency. On this episode of The Unscripted SEO Interview, he and Jeremy Rivera talk about writing for one buyer inside a buying committee, how he uses AI in three buckets, and why he runs open-source models on Mac minis he bought on eBay. Read the full recap for the quotes and frameworks.

                                                            In this episode
                                                            • Write for one person. George writes his copy for product marketers and marketing managers, because they are the ones who reach out. Then he arms them to make the case to the CFO.
                                                            • Three buckets for AI. Things he has no base knowledge of, like a contract. His own workflows, so he becomes the reviewer. And tools that keep clients executing on the brand standards he built.
                                                            • No more hiding it. "I built these 10 pages with AI, but they're all based on my standards." When a client built a deck in Claude from his brand presentation, he gave Claude better instructions instead of fighting it.
                                                            • Is anyone even Googling this? An earlier version of his company sold a "fractional creative director." Nobody searched for it, so "fractional" now only describes the relationship.
                                                            • Humans vs. bots. Jeremy's human-bot sandwich, and George's answer: the LLM might do the searching, but a human still signs the contract. More on that theme in the Brand, Entity and Visibility hub.
                                                            • Self-hosted models. Why a downloaded model running in Open Web UI gives more consistent output for repetitive work like meta descriptions than a hosted chatbot that keeps changing.
                                                            • Privacy and what you feed AI. Jeremy brings in Malith Gamage's privacy-first approach to reporting data. George's advice: obfuscate company names when you use a chatbot casually, and scrub data and store keys properly once you build automation.
                                                            • Tools vs. output makers. George built his own Loom replacement with Codex. Products with team muscle memory, like Notion and Monday, are the ones he expects to survive.
                                                            • Where is the next free channel? LinkedIn is now business TikTok and paid search is priced out. They land on Slack communities as the closest current answer.
                                                            • Industry under fire and the .xyz domain. George answers a question from Marc Pitts: follow your audience into adjacent offers. Then why he chose .xyz over a five-figure .com.
                                                            • Also mentioned

                                                              Jeremy references his conversation with Ernesto Ortiz, who calls AI in SEO table stakes.

                                                              Find George at brandzap.xyz or on LinkedIn. Hosted by Jeremy Rivera. More episodes at Unscripted SEO.

                                                              41 min
                                                            • Going International on SEO with Christina Spaulding

                                                              Discover practical insights for expanding your business globally through international SEO, translation strategies, and regional localization, guided by expert Christina Spalding. Main topics:

                                                              • Christina's international experience and expertise in multilingual SEO
                                                              • The evolution of SEO strategies from 2009 to today, including AI influence
                                                              • Language models (LLMs) in foreign languages: accuracy, hallucinations, and verification
                                                              • Practical approaches for multilingual content, hreflang, and regional signals
                                                              • Localized links, country-specific domains, and user intent in global ranking strategies
                                                              • Market opportunities in Spanish and other language-specific regions
                                                              • Navigation of international platform nuances—server location, TLDs, and SEO efforts
                                                              • Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to Christina Spalding and her international SEO background
                                                                02:12 - Evolution of SEO from 2009 to current AI-driven changes
                                                                03:36 - Impact of AI and low-quality content resurgence in SEO strategies
                                                                04:52 - How language models generate answers and their accuracy across languages
                                                                06:07 - Content volume differences across languages and implications for LLMs
                                                                07:23 - Tools like DeepL for deterministic translation and grammar refinement
                                                                08:45 - Handling context issues and verifying AI-generated content
                                                                09:36 - Using probabilistic vs. deterministic LLMs for international content
                                                                10:20 - Challenges and opportunities of SEO for exported products like handrails
                                                                11:32 - Market potentials for multilingual SEO in the US and beyond
                                                                12:58 - Keyword targeting and content creation in multiple languages
                                                                13:52 - Local demographics and visual cues for language localization
                                                                15:07 - Incorporating regional language and cultural nuances into SEO strategies
                                                                16:21 - Leveraging translation tools and native review for multilingual content
                                                                17:49 - The role and best practices for hreflang and regional signals
                                                                20:33 - Setting up hreflang, region tags, and backend configurations
                                                                22:43 - Impact of user language preference and translation accuracy on conversions
                                                                25:02 - Role of top-level domains (.de, .fr, etc.) and server location in international SEO
                                                                27:35 - Strategies for ranking in country-specific search engines like Baidu in China
                                                                30:56 - Cultural and legal considerations in international marketing and sales
                                                                33:17 - Opportunities in tourism and localized content for expat communities
                                                                36:47 - Conducting language audits and utilizing employee multilingual skills
                                                                38:33 - Connecting with Christina Spalding and further resources Resources & Links:

                                                                • Manzanita Marketing
                                                                • DeepL Translator
                                                                • Weglot translation plugin
                                                                • Baidu SEO insights
                                                                • Google hreflang documentation
                                                                • Connect with Christina Spalding:

                                                                  • LinkedIn
                                                                  • Instagram
                                                                  • Facebook
                                                                  • 33 min

                                                                  About The Unscripted SEO Interview Podcast

                                                                  From the publisher's feed

                                                                  Hosted by Jeremy Rivera: A 17 year career expert in the SEO industry and his cohost Keith Bresee. Get insights, action items and anecdotes from experts like Lilyray, Kevin Indig, Rand Fishkin, Matt…