The Unscripted SEO Interview Podcast

Erika Braeger is not trying to automate the analysis. She manages organic growth strategy at Tenspeed, a B2B SaaS content agency, and the automation she builds is aimed squarely at the pre-work: pulling numbers out of four systems and lining them up in a spreadsheet before anybody is allowed to think.

Jeremy wrote up what this conversation changed: The Faceless-Client Era Is Over on SEO Arcade.

I don’t want to take away the thinking part. I want to allow the strategist to arrive at the thinking part with more ease, without burning energy, on grabbing data, organizing it out of multiple systems, organizing it in the spreadsheet.

It is a narrow claim and a much more defensible one than most agencies are making. The analysis, the narrative, the relationship and the decision all stay with the person. What gets automated is the hour of assembly that happens before any of that can start.

It’s the pre-work that can burn a lot of time, a lot of energy.

Her example of a skill in use is deliberately mundane: gathering conversations scattered across several systems and summarising them, instead of a strategist opening four tabs to reconstruct where an account is.

A big part of my role is helping people grow, helping them build confidence and trust their instincts.

She was a teacher before this, and the method transfers directly. A strategist comes to her because a client is overhauling their navigation and they want a second opinion. They are plugged into the client and the industry. They usually already know.

I don’t just sign off on the gut check. I keep asking curious questions to coax the answer out of them.

The point is not the navigation. It is that the same person will not need to ask next time. She is honest that some of her own early gut checks were impostor syndrome rather than genuine uncertainty.

Some clients get finished content, some get briefs, some take the brief and run an AI-assisted process themselves. She is relaxed about which, because in every case the leverage sits in the same place: the brief, and the expert review at the end.

You need to write content for humans first. However, you need to keep in mind that in order to get the content in front of humans, it needs to be machine readable so that the bots that parsed the content can present it to the correct humans at the correct time.

The ordering is the argument. Machine readability is a distribution requirement, not an audience.

If I were to show this to a friend, would they understand?

Her check against the occupational hazard of B2B SaaS writing, which is learning a product so thoroughly that you stop noticing how technical you have become.

Don’t rush a website migration, I will say. Never rush a website migration.

Asked for a red line, that is the only one she offers, and her follow-up is a better filter than any checklist. Before anything else she asks what business goal the migration is serving, which is often enough to reveal that somebody simply prefers a different platform.

She has no preferred content management system and says so, which is a rarer answer than it should be. Knowing how each one behaves is what lets you make a sensible recommendation. The thing she is still working on is centralising visibility across Reddit, G2 and YouTube, which is the same pre-work problem in a new place.

Every link above goes somewhere different. These are the ones not already mentioned above.

tenspeed.io, where the agency’s first research report is published. She is on LinkedIn under her own name.

Braeger, Erika. Interviewed by Jeremy Rivera. “Use AI to Kill the Pre-Work, Not the Thinking.” Unscripted SEO, 2026. https://unscriptedseo.com/erika-braeger-tenspeed-unscripted-seo/

Most agencies are still deciding what to say about AI. Robert Spinrad of SEOM Interactive already has an answer, and it is not the one being sold. He joined the Philadelphia agency straight out of Temple in 2015, when it was fifteen people, and now runs the SEO function across a team of about forty.

So don’t optimize for the platforms, but improve your site in a way that these platforms will actually trust you and use you in their results.

This is the internal argument SEOM keeps having, and it resolves a lot of the noise. The instruction to optimise for a model invites gaming, invites shortcuts, and invites a strategy that expires when the model updates.

The instruction to be genuinely worth citing produces the same technical work and does not expire.

I’m a little scared that we’re going to go backwards now.

The worry is reputational. SEO spent fifteen years living down its own spam era, and a flood of cheap generated content is the fastest available route back to being the thing marketers apologise for.

The conversation includes Jeremy’s own confession from that era, which is the point. The people who lived through it are the ones most alert to the pattern repeating.

I think we encourage clients to be wary of people saying they are AI experts because this whole thing is brand new. We’re all learning.

I think a good term I want to use is we’re humble experts. We know what we know, but we also know we don’t know, and that’s OK.

It is a good phrase because it survives contact with a sales meeting. It is not false modesty, it is a claim about method, and a client can check whether you behave that way.

It also comes with a specific instruction to clients: do not take SEO advice from a chatbot.

So we report on data, but we focus on the money, the big ticket items at the end of the day.

Their positioning has said the same thing since before any of this: it is not about clicks, it is about results. The analytics go in the report because a client should be able to see them. The meeting is about leads and revenue.

That is also how he keeps model traffic in proportion. Twenty to thirty thousand visits is real and worth understanding. It is not the two hundred thousand from Google organic, and pretending otherwise misallocates the budget.

And you give a quote from the owner, no AI response accepted.

The rule is enforced internally. Mention and link opportunities require a genuine owner-written quote, which is slower and produces the one thing a generated paragraph cannot: something only that person could have said.

Show off your expertise, build your trust with your potential clients and focus on reviews in a natural and authentic way.

Every link above goes somewhere different. These are the ones not already mentioned above.

He is Associate Director of SEO at SEOM Interactive, and writes about not trusting AI for SEO advice.

Spinrad, Robert. Interviewed by Jeremy Rivera. “Why Good SEO Is Good AI Visibility.” The Unscripted SEO Interview Podcast, 2026. https://the-unscripted-seo-interview-podcast.castos.com/episodes/robert-spinrad-on-ai-seo-proper-targetting

Adrian Nikolov has eighteen years in SEO and started a new agency six months before this recording. Haide means let’s go in Bulgarian, and he founded it on an inversion of the usual fear. Rather than wait to find out whether AI takes the work, he decided to make it do the work better.

The essay written off this conversation: Owning Your Audience in the AI Era on SEO Arcade.

Asked what AI unlocked for him personally, he does not say content or speed.

Building my own tools, literally removing the developer issue and me becoming the actual developer.

For anyone who spent a decade filing tickets and waiting, that is the whole answer. The manual labour he lists as gone is oddly specific and instantly recognisable: ticking boxes in Yoast, hand-adding schema, pushing internal links one page at a time.

He is careful to say the workload did not shrink. It grew, because the work became interesting.

I used to be a gamer back in the days, and I compare what I’m living through right now with my addiction to StarCraft 10 years ago.

The pipeline is described in more detail than most agency owners will give you. An automated diagnostic running through MCP connections, a Screaming Frog crawl, keyword data pulled by API, and from that a profile of the brand. Then a voice profile built from everything the brand has published and everything said about it in public.

Only then does content start, across top, middle and bottom of funnel, with a dashboard tracking every page so the system can be corrected by data rather than opinion.

It means “let’s go.” It means break stuff. It means publish stuff.

His news-jacking flow. Relevant signals come in, get filtered against the brand voice and the topical map, and go out as platform-specific pieces: a LinkedIn carousel, a short, a long-form post. He still hires editors, but only ones who use AI daily.

Jeremy’s framing is that the old strategy was to feed the ducks and hope, and that what is missing is a duck-catching system. Adrian’s response is the sharpest line in the middle of the episode.

Yeah, you just described the difference between an SEO and a great SEO.

He is not against top of funnel. He wants impressions, especially for a new brand, on the theory that repeated exposure converts later as a direct search or a recommendation. What he objects to is a page with nowhere to go next.

His complaint about agencies is more pointed. They land an established brand and immediately start rewriting blog posts, because blogs are what they know how to sell.

Just optimize the bottom-funnel pages. Give them more content, or remove content. Analyze, study the engagement rate.

I’m a true believer that authority is the new PageRank, and the trust the brand builds is very important.

From there he is openly critical of agencies selling prompt tracking as a product without being able to say what is being tracked. His alternative is to interview the client properly, build a prompt list that reflects what buyers actually ask, and then read who gets cited alongside you and why.

Nowadays, to get cited in AI, you don’t even need links.

The measurement problem is the one both of them keep circling. Jeremy’s position is that the only honest count is referral traffic and what it did next, which is why he is glad the analytics platforms finally added a channel for it. If you are trying to read that data yourself, our complete Search Console resource guide covers the reporting side of it.

I do believe SEO is the orchestrator of everything else right now.

Every link above goes somewhere different. These are the ones not already mentioned above.

haide.digital, which carries the tools his team built, and Adrian Nikolov on LinkedIn, where the newsletter runs.

Nikolov, Adrian. Interviewed by Jeremy Rivera. “How AI Turns SEOs Into the Orchestrators of Digital Marketing.” Unscripted SEO, 2026. https://unscriptedseo.com/adrian-nikolov-organic-growth-engineering/

Most founders become the bottleneck in their own business. Lloyd Thompson founded Virtual DOO after running global engineering teams and then real-time trading systems for banks. He now places fractional operators between busy owners and their teams, which is a less glamorous job than it sounds and a more valuable one.

A fractional retainer, it’s basically an exotic word for part-time, right?

the operator is that person who sits between the founder and the team.

The distinction he draws is between an operator and an integrator, and it is mostly about company size. A team of five or six needs someone to unblock the daily queue. A team of twenty-five needs someone running the system.

The entry product is a one-off assessment completed inside a month, with the output ranked by effort against impact. That is a deliberately small commitment for a service that is otherwise hard to buy on trust.

Virtual DOO is about four and a half years old and grew entirely by referral, with operators each carrying between one and three clients. Three was his own ceiling before he started hiring.

He is not a remote absolutist. His position is that face to face genuinely helps with onboarding and with building shared standards, and that an office is an expensive thing to keep for a feeling.

So the test is whether the building is doing work. If it is there because it has always been there, that is a cost with no return attached to it.

If I’m paying for operations, how can I tangibly measure the ROI?

He asks the question on the owner’s behalf because most operations people cannot answer it, which is why the function gets cut first when things get tight.

His answers are concrete. Leads leaking out of the pipeline between marketing and sales. Business cards from an event that never reach the system. A checkout that takes seven minutes when it should take one. All of those are operations problems with a currency attached.

I see, we go into businesses quite a lot and they’re either measuring nothing or measuring everything.

It might be, it’s death by tools.

His read on AI adoption is unfashionably flat: he has not yet seen it change a client business in a way that shows up in the numbers. What he has seen is more dashboards, more add-ons and more places for a decision to get lost.

Because if you measure the wrong thing, you can incentivize the wrong thing.

The prescription is subtraction. Fewer channels, fewer tools, fewer measurements that anybody actually acts on.

For larger operations he describes a cut-down agile approach: campaign templates, short feedback loops, and treating influencer and affiliate relationships as a pipeline in the customer system rather than a spreadsheet somebody owns.

None of it is exotic. It is the same argument as the rest of the episode, which is that most businesses do not need a new capability. They need the one they have to stop leaking.

Every link above goes somewhere different. These are the ones not already mentioned above.

Virtual DOO is at virtualdoo.com, where the book and the free assessment both live. He is on LinkedIn.

Thompson, Lloyd. Interviewed by Jeremy Rivera. “Get Out of the Day-to-Day Without Blowing Up Your Team.” The Unscripted SEO Interview Podcast, 2026. https://the-unscripted-seo-interview-podcast.castos.com/episodes/lloyd-jeremy-magic-episode-nov-03-2025

There are two ways to point AI at a market, and Mike Montague only likes one of them. The Terminator approach builds agents that go out and hunt your leads. The Iron Man approach wraps a human in the technology and sends the human. Avenue9 is built entirely on the second one, and this conversation is mostly an argument for why the first one loses.

Mentioned in this episode: oxygen monitoring manufacturer PureAire — Jeremy’s worked example for marketing an industrial product nobody searches for by name.

A C plus is a really good grade. The problem is that other 20% is the hard part. That’s what we needed humans always to do.

His explanation for why smart clients get fooled is the sharpest thing in the episode. If you ask a model about a subject you would fail an exam in, it looks like a genius. The grade has not changed. Your ability to mark it has.

Which is what he sells: not the output, but the person who can tell a C plus from an A. He is candid that the C plus is worth having. It is a good afternoon’s work. It is not a strategy.

If you have bad SEO strategy or bad marketing strategy, it’s going to allow you to do it faster, which is just gonna get you to fail faster.

Jeremy contributes a name for the failure mode on the client side: Claude hopping, where a client arrives with twenty documents of forty pages each and the announcement that they have solved it.

I think the goal should be that your online reputation exactly 100% mirrors your in real life work.

This is a quiet rebuke of most of the industry. He thinks SEO has spent two decades trying to win a rank the business had not earned, and that the machinery on the other side is now far too good for that to keep working.

The practical instruction is unglamorous and much harder than it sounds. Document every job. Capture real quotes from real customers. One representative case study used to be enough and no longer is, because a single example is now a drop in an ocean.

It will give you the rating that you deserve.

I call it degenerative engineering. How can I take AI and use it to distill down what I’m really about?

His metaphor is concentrated orange juice. Take everything already happening around the business, the interviews, the jobs, the founder’s actual opinions, and reduce it rather than inflate it. He thinks most people are working the wrong end of the problem entirely.

Which is also his answer to a client who insists on publishing at volume. He does not talk them out of it. He declines the work, and then explains why.

Why would it cite your version if it can already write one that doesn’t need to be cited?

He is not against a thousand posts. He is against a thousand posts that add nothing a model does not already hold, which is a different and much harder brief.

Both of them land in the same place: the tactics that got drowned out are now the ones with room. Jeremy’s example is ten handwritten letters sent from Raven Tools that earned ten links. Mike’s is printing ten copies of your own book and mailing one to a prospect with a sticky note pointing at chapter three.

Nobody gets a printed book in the mail, nobody gets a handwritten note, and nobody understands their business well enough.

The same instinct drives the cross-pollination section: seminars, trash cleanups, sponsoring the thing in the park, and then making sure any of it is visible online. PureAire Monitoring comes up as Jeremy’s worked example, an oxygen-monitor manufacturer whose customers span a dozen industries that would each happily be amplified.

Every link above goes somewhere different. These are the ones not already mentioned above.

avenue9.com, or Mike Montague on LinkedIn, which he says is where he actually talks to people.

Montague, Mike. Interviewed by Jeremy Rivera. “Use AI Like Iron Man, Not the Terminator.” Unscripted SEO, 2026. https://unscriptedseo.com/mike-montague-ai-iron-man-not-terminator/

About the guest

Rob Bonham is an SEO with about two decades of experience spanning local, e-commerce, SaaS, and home-services clients. Today he advises several startups on SEO and works as a fractional SEO manager and director for a handful of agencies. You can reach him on LinkedIn.

What we cover

Episode highlights

Rob's throughline is that SEOs are now “stewards of the AI.” On the Unscripted SEO Podcast, he and Jeremy Rivera trace how AI has automated the low-level work — title tags, meta descriptions, on-page fixes — so the real job shifts to strategy and judgment. The freedom is real; so is the responsibility.

Which is why volume is not a strategy. Just because you can publish 100 city-specific pages for a concrete contractor doesn't mean you should. When the user signals aren't there, Google devalues the content — a reality Jeremy underscores with his own post on why Google Search Console data isn't reliable. Look like a hero for a few months, then watch the site dive.

In a post-attribution world, Rob argues you win by telling the right story with the data you do have — branded-search lift, conversion correlation, the “game of sums.” And he makes the case that link building is an easier sell than ever when reframed as footprint: unlinked mentions, third-party visibility, and legitimate partner and supplier links.

The back half gets practical. Rob and Jeremy Rivera dig into going independent — setting expectations to avoid scope creep, pricing with conviction (a higher price can itself signal quality), filtering tire-kickers with a small paid audit, and surviving enterprise red tape and net-60 terms.

Connect with Rob Bonham

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robbonham

(Rob points people to LinkedIn — he's “tied at the hip” with it — rather than a website.)

About the show

The Unscripted SEO Podcast is hosted by Jeremy Rivera and features candid, unscripted conversations with SEO practitioners, agency owners, and marketing leaders. New episodes drop weekly at unscriptedseo.com.

Patrick Stox spent six and a half years inside Ahrefs before going independent, and his position on GEO is not the one the acronym wars want. SEO is a subset of it, not a synonym for it, because the fastest way to change what a machine says about your company is to fix the thing people are complaining about. The rest of the conversation is what an operator does once that is true.

If you’ve got a problem with your product, the easiest way to get the LLM or the AI search system to say something different? Go fix that. Because if people are complaining on the internet, that’s what it’s gonna say. So it’s business, it’s branding, it’s so much more.

The claim is not that on-page work stopped mattering. It is that the ceiling on it is lower than the industry admits, because the systems are summarising a reputation you do not own. Stox draws a scale line through the middle of that: a local business can put an SEO on sentiment and move it. A large company cannot staff its way to changing the opinion of the internet.

Which makes GEO a business, brand and product remit that happens to include search work, rather than a rebrand of the search work.

SEOs got lucky with Google. We got Penguin, and for a few years that was really painful — and then they’re like, yeah, we forgive all your bad links. These AI search systems may make a different decision. How long will they hold a grudge against you?

Google decided, around 2016, to stop holding historic link spam against sites. That decision could have gone the other way and stayed that way for another decade. Nobody at OpenAI, Anthropic or Perplexity has made the equivalent call, publicly or otherwise.

The practical reading: tactics that work today carry an unpriced liability. That is not an argument against moving fast. It is an argument for knowing which of your tactics you would be embarrassed to have logged.

You get a bunch of pages, might be 90 pages retrieved, and then 13 of them get cited... Well, why were some retrieved but not cited? That’s a really good question to look into. And it’s usually like, you were relevant enough, but you didn’t quite say the right thing, or in the right way.

The sharpest operational idea in the episode, and the one most reporting misses entirely. A page that gets retrieved and dropped is already close enough to win. Stox calls that gap the low-hanging fruit of the AI era, because you are not fighting for relevance any more, you are fighting over phrasing and specificity.

Most people will tell you sitemaps, or crawling. Well, there’s more. RSS feeds are a thing. Pinging the sites — the WebSub, PubSubHubbub, whatever... Submissions in GSC, the indexing API.

Worth keeping when you are diagnosing a discovery problem, because most audits check exactly two of those inputs and stop.

Anyone can put out any number of pages. But if you’re just using it for content — just the content — you’re not providing resources, you’re not sourcing where you got something. So anyone can do it, but it’s a matter of: can you do it well?

His alternative is unglamorous and almost nobody runs it. Message five genuine experts inside your own company, two or three times a week, over Slack or email or an AI-run interview, and build from what they say. The raw material is already on the payroll.

Generally I wouldn’t even recommend a programmatic project unless you’ve got something unique, different... Everyone’s got reviews, but what if you did scoring? What if you did a market analysis? What’s the sentiment? What is the brand search volume for each of these companies?

And on the Helpful Content Update, he is blunt that prose is not the moat:

I don’t think writing will get you but so far. Part of the thing they mentioned with that update was images — images and videos that show you’ve got hands-on with the product you’re talking about... Not you pulled the stock photo offline from the manufacturer and then wrote a bunch of stuff.

Every link above goes somewhere different. These are the ones not already mentioned above.

patrickstox.com, and Tech SEO Connect at techseoconnect.com.

Stox, Patrick. Interviewed by Jeremy Rivera. “Patrick Stox on Building in the GEO Era.” The Unscripted SEO Podcast, 26 June 2026. https://unscriptedseo.com/patrick-stox-on-building-in-the-geo-era/

Semantic Links with Bradley Benner

Watch: https://youtu.be/AUf1U_klNCM

Previous interview: https://unscriptedseo.com/building-relevent-links-agencies-with-bradley-benner/

Discover how relevance outranks traditional metrics in modern SEO strategies, especially in the era of AI and large language models (LLMs). Bradley Benner shares deep insights into relevance-driven link building, AI-driven process automation, and the evolving landscape of search engine optimization.In this episode:

Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to Bradley Benner and his background in local SEO and AI applications 00:30 - Bradley’s evolution from contractor to SEO entrepreneur 01:01 - The growth of Semantic Mastery and Semantic Links 01:31 - The significance of relevance in link building and SEO 02:51 - How AI models interpret links and mentions 03:37 - Automating processes with AI and the importance of well-defined workflows 04:58 - The role of relevance in today's link-building strategies 06:28 - Using transcripts and AI for process mapping and SOP development 07:55 - Flexing AI to optimize workflows instead of rigid processes 09:28 - The shift in local SEO and the importance of relevance over traditional metrics 10:23 - The changing landscape of AI dominance in search and its implications 11:14 - Relevance as the cornerstone of off-page SEO in AI-driven search engines 12:07 - Moving beyond thousands of backlink metrics to focus on relevance 13:40 - Ethical considerations and outdated SEO practices 14:42 - The importance of creating and reinforcing entity associations 15:54 - Optimizing page elements using semantic triples for better relevance 17:33 - The significance of contextual relevance in link placement 18:32 - The three layers of relevance in backlink profiles 19:24 - How large language models leverage mentions and relevance over traditional link equity 20:48 - Using citations and mentions as signals for search algorithms 22:02 - The influence of high authority and localized mentions for AI visibility 23:16 - The future of link building and relevance in the AI era 24:21 - The positive impact of LLMs on justify investments in link building 25:08 - Traditional marketing techniques meet AI-driven SEO 26:03 - Practical tips for human-centered optimization and content structureResources & Links:

Connect with Bradley Benner:

Joel Miller is the co-founder of The SkyFloor, a digital agency he has run alongside his identical twin brother since 2008. The SkyFloor works across industries — churches, retail, education, and service organizations — with a philosophy centered on long-term partnerships and outcome-driven strategy rather than one-off deliverables. Joel writes regularly on digital strategy and business growth at theskyfloor.com/ideas.

Joel opens by reframing what The SkyFloor actually sells: not services, but outcomes. He describes their team as problem solvers who work backward from what a client wants to become — whether that's a more efficient church, a retail brand competing online, or an education company ready to grow beyond referrals. That outcome-first philosophy maps onto what Jeremy calls the pyramid of value: executing a tactic at the base, saving time in the middle, and enabling the client to become who they want to be at the top. As Joel puts it, the human ingenuity required to genuinely partner with a client is still a distinctly human task — one AI cannot replicate at the top of that pyramid.

The conversation gets practical fast with Joel's sales call analysis case study. A client had lead conversion problems, and rather than feeding transcripts into a model, Joel listened to 30–40 hours of incoming calls himself — catching tone, the weight of a specific pause, the difference between enthusiasm and polite deflection. Once he'd mapped those human-observed patterns, he built a custom GPT framework and connected it to CallRail for automatic call scoring. The human defines the problem; AI scales the execution. Joel was equally candid about LLM limitations: ask an LLM for an answer and you've already biased the output. It is an answer engine, not an objective analyst — and the good prompt engineers know how to work around that tendency.

"An audience can't just be taken away if it's your audience, no matter what Google does next."

Joel is watching AI Overview impact in real time across his client accounts: impressions holding or growing, clicks down ~40%, and SERP layouts restructured so that for many queries, organic results appear nowhere above the fold. The composition is now AI Overview, then local pack, then sponsored results — organic is buried or absent. On the paid side, keyword categories that used to reliably trigger ad placements have been absorbed by overview content. His adaptation: heavier investment in high-intent near-me queries that still trigger standard ad slots, and a shift away from treating search volume as the primary planning input toward full SERP composition audits.

The most durable advice from the episode is Joel's audience ownership argument. He's actively steering clients toward email lists and direct subscriber relationships — assets that travel with them regardless of what Google decides to change next. The catch he acknowledges freely: building that owned audience requires personality. LinkedIn personal pages outperform business pages by roughly 8x on reach. His team at The SkyFloor is doing the quiet coaching work of helping reluctant clients become more personally visible. He closes with an observation that stuck with me: even as AI democratizes production, the question marketing has always had to answer — why does anyone care, and who is behind this — remains the only one that truly matters.

Website: theskyfloor.com

Blog: theskyfloor.com/ideas

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/joelelliottmiller

The Unscripted SEO Podcast is hosted by Jeremy Rivera and features candid, unscripted conversations with SEO practitioners, agency owners, and marketing leaders. New episodes drop weekly at unscriptedseo.com.

Holly Homer runs organic and AI visibility at Digistore24, the affiliate network and marketplace. She also accidentally started one of the first mom blogs twenty-odd years ago, and still runs kidsactivities.com. Both facts matter to this conversation.

She tells Jeremy Rivera she has roughly 13,000 blog posts and four books behind her, and that the simplicity that made her site useful is exactly what made it easy to scrape.

“I was literally replaced by my own words in the search results and the AI results.” — Holly Homer

The full written recap, with the four-conversation content strategy and the keyword map she built at Digistore24, is here: Holly Homer on affiliate marketing, AI slop, and being replaced by your own words.

“I sold a boatload of pajama jeans for them in a way that they had no risk.” — Holly Homer

“It's our own damn fault if we don't let people know what we do.” — Holly Homer

Holly's Digistore24 colleague Nick Eubanks on distribution as the only remaining moat is the natural companion to this one. Ameera Virani on habits, visibility and wealth came through the same door. And for the other side of Holly's argument about people, Joel Miller on why human judgment still scales.

More interviews at Unscripted SEO.