In this episode of the Unscripted SEO Podcast, Jeremy Rivera and Mordy Oberstein of Unify, a Brand marketing service, and head of Brand at Wix discuss the evolving landscape of SEO and the critical role of branding in achieving online success.

They explore how recent algorithm changes by Google have made it increasingly difficult for non-branded sites to compete, emphasizing the need for SEOs to step outside their digital bubbles and engage with broader marketing strategies. 

The conversation highlights the importance of understanding brand identity, audience engagement, and the necessity of real-world interactions to enhance online presence. That includes leveraging community cleanups for links, as well as being a podcast guest and other more PR like work than just editing meta tags. Local businesses such as Earthworks of Naples often benefit from these kinds of real-world brand activities, which strengthen both community presence and SEO signals.

Mordy shares practical steps for SEOs to align their strategies with brand messaging and positioning, ultimately advocating for a more integrated approach to SEO that prioritizes meaningful connections with audiences.

Want to talk more about SEO? Continue the conversation on Bluesky, X or check out old episodes of Unscripted SEO by SEO Arcade

In this episode of Unscripted SEO, host Jeremy Rivera sits down with Erica D'Arcangelo, CEO of Love Content Development, to discuss the evolution of digital marketing agencies, the hybrid work model, and navigating the AI revolution in content creation.

Erica D'Arcangelo is the CEO of Love Content Development, a full-service marketing agency with 14 years in business. She also owns Create One (video production company) and V12 Strategies (marketing technology company). Over her career, Erica has worked with approximately 800 companies and generated nearly $300 million across all marketing contracts. She's also an Amazon bestselling author of "A Story About Pizza," chronicling her grandfather's journey as an Italian immigrant opening a pizzeria in 1960.

"SEO is not dead. There's just a lot more elements to it than there ever was. It takes a lot more. You have all these different pieces of this puzzle and they all work together."

"I really lead with, how can this content benefit the reader and how can we be creative with it? Not like how can we publish a million posts this month?"

"AI is a tool that makes really things faster and easier, and it's an amazing research tool, but there's certain things I think it has to be really used responsibly."

"The best way to know what people want is just to ask them."

For Marketing Services:

For Pizza Stories & Books:

Hosted by Jeremy Rivera | SEO Arcade

Guest: Lorraine Ball, Host of More Than a Few Words Podcast
Experience: 19 years running a digital marketing agency, sold in 2021
Current Focus: Marketing consulting, teaching, and podcasting

Building and Scaling an Agency

Business Philosophy

Strategic Insights

Guest: Lorrie Thomas Ross, CEO of Web Marketing Therapy
Title: "The Marketing Therapist"
Experience: 19 years as Chief Enthusiasm Officer, former UC Santa Barbara & UC Berkeley instructor

The Five Factor Framework

"MarkEDing" Philosophy

AI as Virtual Sparring Partner

Information Gain Concept

Key Quotes:

Content Repurposing

Quality Over Quantity

Ideal Clients

Service Approach

For Small Business Owners:

For Marketers:

Lorraine Ball:

Lorrie Thomas Ross:

Host Jeremy Rivera:

Additional Resources Mentioned:

Lorraine Ball Episode:

Lorrie Thomas Ross Episode:

These episodes feature insights from marketing professionals with combined 38+ years of experience building agencies, working with small businesses, and adapting to digital marketing evolution.

In this episode of the Unscripted SEO podcast, host Jeremy Rivera interviews Katie Wagner, President & CEO of KWSM Digital Marketing Agency. They dive deep into the evolution of SEO, the importance of brand journalism, and how businesses can adapt to the changing digital landscape including AI overviews and LLM-based search.

Katie Wagner

Connect with Katie:

Jeremy Rivera

Connect with Jeremy:

"Brand journalism has never been more important. We really lean into that at the agency." - Katie Wagner

"I don't really have ego in those numbers as long as a percentage of it is actually turning into customers for my clients." - Katie Wagner

"Every brand has to be a content creator and they have to be journalists of their own brand." - Katie Wagner

"Gone are the days when one tactic in a vacuum is going to generate all the business you need." - Katie Wagner

Host: Jeremy Rivera
Guest: Virginia Elder, Owner of Podcast Abundance
Topic: The evolution of SEO, podcast marketing strategy, and cross-channel content creation

In this in-depth conversation, Jeremy Rivera sits down with Virginia Elder, owner of Podcast Abundance, to explore how podcasting fits into modern SEO and content marketing strategies. They discuss the evolution from traditional website-focused SEO to a holistic, cross-channel approach that leverages podcasting, social media, and authentic human connections to build brand authority and drive business growth.

Virginia shares her journey from financial audit work to becoming a podcast production specialist for financial professionals, while Jeremy explains why genuine human conversations can't be replicated by AI and how podcasting creates valuable content ecosystems for businesses.

Virginia Elder is the owner of Podcast Abundance, a podcast production agency specializing in financial professionals. Her background includes accounting and information management, with experience in sales tax auditing and contract management at construction companies.

Virginia's journey into podcasting began during her personal financial transformation, where she discovered the power of financial education podcasts. After paying off $80,000 in debt in three and a half years through strategies learned from podcasts, she attended a financial content creation conference where she unexpectedly launched two podcast shows for financial advisors.

Her low-cost, excellent tools approach and ability to bring out the personality in naturally awkward professionals has made her a sought-after producer in the financial services space.

Virginia Elder:

"People are really looking for that personal connection these days. And whether that's through your face or through your voice, video versus audio. If they can hear you, they immediately connect more deeply with you than if you're just a guy on LinkedIn or a girl on LinkedIn."

Jeremy Rivera:

"The personal chemistry with you, the conversation, the interaction of my experience with your experience as we thread the needle of our shared topics is something that, as I said in my interview with Jason Barnard of KaliCube, like it's information gain."

Virginia Elder on podcast statistics:

"So for you to get to stand out, just think like think SEO, right? Like what if you were only one of 500,000 websites out there? Holy cow, you would be jumping up and down celebrating that you are one of those websites."

Jeremy Rivera on AI vs. human content:

"Mass producing bulk amounts of AI generated content is not a good content marketing strategy long term. Yes, there are content marketing browsers who show their gains, but then they don't show the huge dip as Google detects that there's no brand entity behind it."

Virginia Elder
Podcast Abundance
Website: podcastabundance.com
Specialization: Podcast production for financial professionals

Jeremy Rivera
Unscripted SEO Podcast
Cookeville SEO Specialist
Website: unscriptedseo.com

This episode demonstrates why authentic human conversations create irreplaceable value in an AI-dominated content landscape. The discussion provides actionable strategies for business owners looking to leverage podcasting as part of their broader digital marketing and SEO efforts.

Episode: Unscripted SEO Podcast
Host: Jeremy Rivera - Unscripted Podcast
Guest: Chris Turnbull, Founder of Catalyst Marketing
Duration: ~45 minutes

Join Jeremy Rivera as he sits down with Chris Turnbull, founder of Catalyst Marketing, for an unfiltered discussion about how SEO has evolved over the past 13 years. From Google's monopolistic behavior to the rise of AI overviews, this conversation explores why local SEO has remained surprisingly stable while broader search continues to fragment across multiple platforms.

Chris shares insights from his journey from apprentice SEO to agency founder, specializing in performance marketing for local service businesses. The duo dives deep into the breakdown of traditional content marketing, the rise of user-generated content, and why Reddit posts now carry the same weight as backlinks from 2015.

Jeremy Rivera:

"It feels like we have been demoted to beta testers as the public... I remember search results from 2014 that were so scandalous they got a public apology. Now we have an age of lawlessness."

"Getting a huge upvoted post on Reddit now carries as much weight and value as getting a huge backlink did in 2015."

Chris Turnbull:

"What worked in SEO five years ago is still working now for local high-intent terms... It's dragging people who just focused on SEO into the wider marketing sphere."

"Is there a post-website world? These are big, almost existential questions when it comes to search."

Chris Turnbull has 13+ years of SEO experience, working from small agencies to global accounts and in-house roles with major insurance firms. Since 2021, he's focused exclusively on local service businesses through Catalyst Marketing. He's recently launched a school community for local business owners covering marketing, growth, and business development.

Jeremy Rivera is founder of SEO Arcade and co-host of the Unscripted SEO Podcast. With experience spanning from Raven Tools to local service SEO, he now operates a white label podcasting service that converts expert interviews into content and link-building opportunities for agencies.

Like what you heard? Leave a review and subscribe for more unscripted conversations with industry experts.

Jeremy Rivera interviews Jason Barnard of KaliCube about entity optimization, AI assistive engines, and the future of search. This conversation explores practical strategies for controlling your digital footprint and optimizing for modern search systems.

Explore the COMPLETE Episode, and read the deep dive on SEO Arcade for further topical exploration in the same field of entities, Ai and SEO.

Jason Barnard is the founder of KaliCube and a pioneer in entity optimization. He started in 1998 with a children's website that grew to one billion page views in 2007, competing with BBC and PBS. In 2012, he successfully changed Google's perception of him from "cartoon blue dog" to "respected entrepreneur and digital marketer" - becoming one of the first to master entity transformation.

️ Similar Deep Dives: If you enjoyed this conversation about entities and AI, check out our interview with Mark Williams Cook on technical SEO innovations where we explored how machine learning is reshaping technical optimization strategies.

️ Foundational Concepts: For more on search evolution and brand building, don't miss our conversation with Rand Fishkin on the future of SEO. Rand's perspective on sustainable organic growth strategies pairs perfectly with Jason's entity optimization methodology.

"Which part of the web do you control? Your own digital footprint." - Jason Barnard

"Truth becomes reality due to people repeating it. What you realize is that people sometimes just repeat what they've heard and they don't actually have an opinion." - Jason Barnard

"If you can organize your data source to be logical (because machines are logical), to be meaningful and valuable, and make sure you're connecting out to the proof that what you're saying is true... then you're onto a winning mindset." - Jason Barnard

"Understandability is the foundation. If you don't have that, you're not even in the game." - Jason Barnard

Jeremy Rivera makes the case for bringing back the "webmaster" title, arguing it better describes modern SEO work: integrating signals across email, organic search, entity creation, and website connections to change perception and drive traffic.

Jason's Journey: Starting in 2012, Jason realized it wasn't just his website but his entire digital footprint that needed optimization. While traditional SEO focused purely on websites, he was already optimizing across Facebook, review sites, articles, and social media profiles.

The breakthrough came in 2015 with Hummingbird and Google's shift from strings to things, leading to the creation of KaliCube.

The conversation reveals how Google representatives like John Mueller and Gary Illyes function as "public relations people" who carefully word statements to avoid giving away ranking factors.

Key insight: When they say "clicks don't change rankings directly," the word "directly" is their escape clause.

Jason's interviews with Bing team leads (Fabrice Canal, Nathan Chalmers, Frederick D'Bou) revealed more transparent information since "they have nothing to lose." This led to early insights about the whole page algorithm, later confirmed by Google as the Magic Mixer.

Core Concept: All modern search systems use three interconnected technologies:

Critical insight: All three feed from the same data source - the web. Since you control your digital footprint, you can influence all three systems simultaneously.

Timeline expectations:

Discussion of the medic update reveals how "distance from seed sites" became a crucial ranking factor. Chiropractors with superior content couldn't compete with WebMD's direct connections to authoritative medical institutions.

Jason's data identified four knowledge sources:

Around 2020-2021, Google began expanding beyond its rigid seed sources, allowing Jason's website to become the authority for his own TV series characters.

The Claim-Frame-Prove System:

Real example: Jason claims expertise in answer engine optimization, frames it as the precursor to AI assistive engine optimization, then gets validation through interviews and articles.

Jeremy's insight: Creating multiple corroborative sources (show notes, articles, guest posts) transforms subjective claims into "truth" that AI systems recognize.

Rand Fishkin's concept of unlinked citations from 2013 proves prescient in the AI era. Jason's early investment in mentions without links across SEMrush, Search Engine Watch, and TrustPilot now pays dividends.

Scale perspective: Wikipedia has 6 million articles while Google's Knowledge Graph contains 54 billion entities - 10,000 times larger.

Entity vs. Parameter: In knowledge graphs, you're an entity. In LLMs, you're a parameter. Both can be reinforced through consistent digital footprint management.

Essential elements:

Technical requirements:

Warning: Google calls this the "point of reconciliation." If you don't own it, they'll assign LinkedIn or Instagram as your entity home - that's rented space you don't control.

Mike King's query fan out concept aligns with Jason's "cascading queries" - both describe how modern systems break down complex queries into component parts.

Micro-AEO approach: Optimize for each cascading query to increase chances of inclusion in LLM outputs.

Warning about reverse engineering: Sites that programmatically answered "people also ask" questions got hit by the HCU update. The solution isn't copying existing answers but adding new perspectives and information gain.

Three-pillar framework:

Free resources: Download guides at KaliCube.com/guides

Information Gain Imperative: With LLMs potentially training on their own output, humans must focus on creating genuinely new perspectives and data. A conversation with a 30-year plumbing expert offers more value than another "how to fix a leaky faucet" article.

Continuous Evolution: Every time you provide new information to algorithms, they store it and don't need it again. This creates pressure to keep moving knowledge forward - a positive challenge for perpetual learners.

Episode Topics:

Industry References:

Guest Information:

Daniel Horowitz
Senior SEO Manager at Informatica
Connect: LinkedIn

Daniel Horowitz shares his decade-long journey in SEO, from agency-side link building campaigns to managing enterprise SEO at Informatica. We dive deep into the impact of Google's Helpful Content Update, the shift from traffic-focused to conversion-focused strategies, and practical tactics that still work in the AI-dominated search landscape.

[00:01] - Introductions and Daniel's background at Informatica
[00:42] - Link building experiences with Shopify Exchange project
[02:09] - Evolution from link building to enterprise SEO strategies
[03:39] - Digital PR vs traditional link building approaches
[07:02] - Google's maker sessions and the "answer engine" revelation
[08:13] - The Helpful Content Update's devastating impact on travel blogging
[09:03] - Enterprise SEO evangelism and cross-functional collaboration
[11:50] - Subject Matter Expert (SME) interview series strategy
[15:05] - Moving beyond basic keyword-focused content
[15:48] - Transitioning from blogs to resource pages and use cases
[19:00] - Justifying content marketing spend with declining traffic
[21:39] - Cross-channel marketing and sentiment analysis
[25:28] - Platform diversification beyond Google
[29:54] - The future of SEO in an AI-dominated world
[37:13] - Actionable advice: The power of internal linking

"I always liken [link building] to fixing the subway system in New York City, whereas you would have to really shut it down for a while in order to put new track down."

"With AI search, we've lost a lot of traffic, but our conversion rate has actually increased quite a bit because of the types of content we're putting out."

"The SEO content model is dead. I don't think that's coming back."

"Internal linking has been so important. I'm shocked at how many businesses just don't do it and don't consider how things relate to each other."

"Where you're being cited is more important than how you're being cited."

These show notes were created to help listeners navigate key topics and access mentioned resources. For the complete conversation and full context, listen to the full episode.

Summary

In this UnscriptedSEO conversation, Jeremy Rivera and LinkedIn expert Daniel Alfon discuss the often-overlooked potential of LinkedIn as a powerful SEO tool.

They explore the evolution of social media, the importance of authority and identity on LinkedIn, and strategies for targeting the right audience. The discussion also covers the nuances of B2B versus B2C marketing, optimizing LinkedIn profiles, the significance of recommendations, and the differences between posting articles and posts. Alfon emphasizes the importance of understanding user behavior on LinkedIn and how to convert connections into meaningful business relationships.

Takeaways

Summary

In this episode of the Unscripted SEO podcast, Keith Breseé hosts Paritosh Pareek and Anthony Prichard from WP Sprints to discuss the critical aspects of SEO, particularly focusing on technical SEO and video strategies for local businesses. They explore the importance of optimizing video content for search engines, common mistakes made in WordPress SEO, and the role of AI in content creation. The conversation emphasizes the need for businesses to adapt to changing SEO landscapes and leverage video as a powerful tool for building trust and visibility online.

Takeaways