The Well-Trained Mind podcast

By Susan Wise Bauer & Susanna JarrettEducation

The Well-Trained Mind podcast episodes

May 13 Responding to Listener Questions (or Things We Should Talk About More in the Homeschool Community!)
In this episode, Susan Wise Bauer and Susanna Jarrett respond to listener questions. We also asked listeners to send us their thoughts about things we should be talking about more in the home education community.
This episode has a video version! Check it out on YouTube!
Note: around 51:27, Susanna mentions this episode, about choosing the right online school.
1 hr 2 min
May 06Education and AI w/ Jose Vargas
In this episode, Susan Wise Bauer and Susanna Jarrett welcome Jose Vargas to the podcast to discuss the future of education in the wake of the AI revolution.
(00:00) - Intro with Jose Vargas
(02:42) - The onset of Generative AI
(04:51) - Example uses of AI and the drawbacks
(09:03) - The levels that Jose works with
(10:56) - AI in animation
(15:50) - The Student-Teacher dynamic (or lack thereof)
(20:24) - What has changed for teachers and students
(28:06) - Break
(28:08) - Safeguards for final work
(36:26) - What to know before kids hit freshman year of college
(42:18) - Learning HOW it's happening
(45:58) - Learning how to maintain your sovereignty over your work
(50:10) - We could keep going!
(52:19) - Outro
54 min
April 29RE-RELEASE: Homeschooled by Susan Wise Bauer w/ Chris Bauer
This week we're re-releasing one of our most popular episodes from last season - we'll be back to new episodes next week!
In this episode, Susan Wise Bauer and Susanna Jarrett interview Susan’s son, Chris Bauer, for the inside scoop on what it was like to be homeschooled by the author of The Well-Trained Mind.
As promised, here is the "Daniel fingers!" blog post Chris mentions.
At 50:53 Susan mentions her history growing up in a fundamentalist cult, for more on her story check out Season 1, Episode 1:
Our Education Journeys, or Season 4, Episode 1: Honest Reflections on My Homeschool Experience w. Susan Wise Bauer
(00:00) - Intro with Chris (Christopher) Bauer
(01:25) - Chris was the test case
(02:52) - Who is Chris?
(09:45) - Chris' homeschool experience in 3 words | Consistent, flexible, and varied
(10:30) - Earliest homeschool memories
(16:23) - Typical homeschool days
(23:51) - Susan invites negativity
(27:07) - The rest of Chris' homeschool day
(30:19) - Break
(30:21) - Chris' biggest challenges
(34:05) - How homeschooling shaped Chris' life
(39:17) - Beta testing WTM
(45:32) - What would Chris change?
(47:00) - What Chris is passionate about
(48:03) - Definite do and don't for Chris' hypothetical future children
(52:04) - Outro
54 min
April 22The Label Debate w/ Heather Quintero
In this episode, Susan Wise Bauer and Susanna Jarrett are joined by Heather Quintero to discuss the pros and cons of getting your children diagnosed with learning differences or “labels.”
NPR article Susanna mentioned: Younger children in a grade are more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD.
Other studies referenced:
A 2025 study on diagnostic labels found that students labeled with a learning disability were seen as “lower in academic competence,” which led to lower performance expectations.
A 2025 qualitative analysis found that labels can lead to negative self-perception.
Rethinking School by Susan Wise Bauer
(00:00) - Intro with Heather Quintero
(00:43) - Talking about labels
(04:37) - Medical label vs school plan
(05:53) - Why this is important
(09:28) - Why are there hesitations to get labels
(15:34) - Natural differentiation and over diagnosis
(26:49) - Break
(26:50) - What a diagnosis can unlock
(39:49) - Think about the gut check
(48:11) - Rule out vision and hearing issues
(52:49) - Distress is not a moral failing
(53:35) - Outro
55 min
April 15Nationalism and Classical Education w/ Nendir Noel
In this episode, Susan Wise Bauer and Susanna Jarrett welcome Nendir Noel to the podcast to discuss classical education, its connection to the proverbial “West,” and a few alarming trends we’ve noticed in the American classical education community.
Website recommended by Susan: https://pharos.vassarspaces.net/
Correction: Cannon Press published Stephen Wolfe “The Case for Christian Nationalism,” not William Wolfe.
(00:00) - Intro with Nendirmwa Noel
(03:23) - Nendirmwa's background
(07:13) - Looking back on Nendimwa's education
(12:11) - Difference in American education
(23:15) - Break
(23:16) - Classical education being portrayed as superior
(30:12) - Homeschooling's false link to racist ideology
(36:18) - Curriculum red flags
(45:58) - Defining what classical education is to us
(49:35) - In the Conversation Co-op
53 min
April 08Choosing Homeschool Curricula Without Anxiety, Noise, or Peer Pressure w/ Mel Moore and Bridget Nickerson
In this episode, Susan Wise Bauer and Susanna Jarrett welcome two of our colleagues, Mel Moore and Bridget Nickerson, for a conversation about ignoring peer pressure and choosing homeschool programs that work for your students.
(00:00) - Intro with Bridget Nickerson and Mel Moore
(03:23) - The problem with lists
(16:45) - Fear of explusion?
(18:28) - Common gatekeeping tactics
(25:59) - Break
(26:00) - The myth of "safety"
(33:42) - Hidden ideologies?
(37:31) - Will I accidentally turn my child into [x]
(39:24) - Pushing back against "sneaky"
(42:41) - How to choose the "right" curricula
(48:42) - Outro
50 min
April 01Are Homeschool History Programs Accurate? w/ Dr. Warren Throckmorton
In this episode, Susan Wise Bauer and Susanna Jarrett welcome Dr. Warren Throckmorton onto the podcast to review accuracy of various homeschool curricula.

Links to Warren Throckmorton’s work elsewhere:
Substack: The Throckmorton Initiative
Book: Getting Jefferson Right: Fact-Checking Claims About Our Third President
Upcoming book: The Christian Past That Wasn't: Debunking the Christian Nationalist Myths that Hijack History
Podcast: The Christian Past That Wasn't: Formerly Telling Jefferson's Lies
X: @wthrockmorton
Facebook: warrenthrockmorton
Bluesky: @wthrockmorton.bsky.social
Excerpt links:
Our American Heritage by Judy Hull Moore, Abeka. Quotations come from pages 1, 3, and 53
The Mystery of History blog by curriculum author Judy Hull Moore “Benjamin Franklin – A Jack of All Trades”
US Constitution and Government Course Book, The Good and the Beautiful. See sample from the publisher’s website. Quotations come from page 2, History Case File page 1, and page 2.
A Young People’s History of the United States by Howard Zinn and Rebecca Stefoff. Quotations come from 52, 54, 58, and 88.
Why Learn History When it is Already On Your Phone by Sam Wineburg
The Story of the World Volume 3: Early Modern Times Revised Edition by Susan Wise Bauer, Well-Trained Mind Press. Quotations come from 258-259, 260-262.
History Quest: United States, Pandia Press. Quoted passages come from pages 52, 76, and 248.
Snapshots of Early Modern History, Volume 2 by Vivian Meyers, Curiosity Chronicles. Quoted passages come from page 40. View samples on the publisher’s website.
(00:00) - Intro with Warren Throckmorton
(06:59) - What we're doing today
(07:56) - Our American Heritage
(16:10) - Mystery of History Vol. 4
(23:37) - The Good and the Beautiful US constitution course
(34:27) - Break
(34:28) - A Young People's History of the United States
(40:19) - The Story of the World
(46:05) - History Quest: United States
(52:22) - Curiosity Chronicles: Early Modern Times
(55:29) - How to evaluate the honesty of histories?
(01:01:12) - Outro
1 hr 3 min
March 25Should Christians Attend Secular Universities? W/ Dr. Karen Swallow Prior
In this episode, Susan Wise Bauer and Susanna Jarrett are joined by Karen Swallow Prior to discuss selecting university education, particularly for Christians homeschool graduates.
Dr. Prior’s substack
Dr. Prior’s website
You Have a Calling: Finding Your Vocation in the True, Good, and Beautiful by Karen Swallow Prior
The Evangelical Imagination: How Stories, Images, and Metaphors Created a Culture in Crisis by Karen Swallow Prior
(00:00) - Intro with Dr. Karen Swallow Prior
(00:35) - The purpose of this conversation
(02:47) - Susan and Karen's backgrounds
(05:48) - Personal experiences
(12:34) - How to evaluate universities with your student
(17:26) - Differences between secondary and university Christian roles
(20:48) - Education being "safe"
(25:06) - The four-year degree and the readiness of a student
(27:29) - The college litmus test
(29:54) - Break
(29:56) - The fear of indoctrination
(43:55) - How to ensure a vigorous education
(48:17) - "The search for truth" as a basis for education
(50:14) - Looping back around to Karen's tenure as a principal
(52:14) - Going back to teaching at an institution?
(53:42) - What Karen's up to now
(55:18) - Outro
57 min
March 18Homeschool and Abuse, Discipline Strategies, and Parental Authority w/ Rachael Denhollander
In this episode, Susan Wise Bauer and Susanna Jarrett welcome Rachael Denhollander to the podcast to discuss homeschooling and abuse.
Illinois case mentioned in the episode
Book mentioned: Homeschooled by Stefan Merrill Block
Links on biblical counseling movement
When Restoration Hurts via Christianity Today
The Rise of Biblical Counseling via Pacific Standard
(00:00) - Introduction with Rachael Denhollander
(03:36) - Understanding abuse in homeschooling
(05:10) - Defining the categories of abuse
(08:38) - Isolation and ultimate authority
(17:33) - How to teach when authority is overstepping
(22:48) - How to teach when and how to say "no"
(27:40) - Break
(28:17) - Authority is not absolute
(32:04) - What to look for
(36:52) - What is reasonable government oversight?
(54:23) - What to look out for
(57:38) - What should we be asking ourselves?
(01:01:31) - Outro
1 hr 3 min
March 11Parenting Styles, Discipline Strategies, and Homeschooling w/ Dr. Melanie Wilson
In this episode, Susan Wise Bauer and Susanna Jarrett talk about parenting styles and discipline strategies with psychologist and homeschool veteran Dr. Melanie Wilson. Dr. Wilson has her own podcast, The Homeschool Sanity Show. She also sells curricula and homeschool tools at Fun to Learn Books.
(00:00) - Intro with Dr. Melanie Wilson
(00:47) - Revisiting FlyLady
(01:50) - Discipline and parenting style in homeschooling and how it has changed
(10:04) - "Too hard" vs "Too soft" discipline styles
(14:38) - How to set boundaries in a non-authoritarian way
(20:38) - Break
(20:39) - How to setup healthy boundaries?
(27:46) - How to model behavior for a toddler
(38:55) - Acknowledging childhood trauma
(45:35) - Try to relax. Pay attention. Make tweaks.
(48:54) - Outro
51 min