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What influence did the U.S. Navy Fighter Weapon School (TOPGUN) in the 1970s have on John Boyd’s thinking? This was the question Steve Holt, a Technical Fellow at Boeing, and Ponch were discussing before they decided to record their conversation. 

This episode picks up as Steve and Ponch agree that the TOPGUN-Boyd story captured in Dan Pederson’s book, TOPGUN provides some insights on Boyd's closed to open system journey. Together, Steve and Ponch explore how Boyd’s pioneering E-M Theory altered the landscape of aircraft design, while brushing up against concepts like the Free Energy Principle and agility.

This discussion took an intriguing turn into a critical analysis of the Theory of Constraints, tracing its origins back to Eliyahu Goldratt’s groundbreaking business novel, 'The Goal'. The concept of constraints came under our microscope, shedding light on how these seemingly limiting factors can actually serve to supercharge a system's performance. Steve elucidated how Goldratt’s approach to the Theory of Constraints focuses on understanding what could be going on in the system and how to capitalize on it.

The conversation then shifted towards the often misunderstood subject of inherent simplicity and how it can be harnessed to manage a system's performance. The concept of inherent simplicity, as explained by Steve, is often misinterpreted. In reality, it serves as a powerful tool for managing capacity and constraints in systems.

Steve Holt on LinkedIn

NWO Intro with Boyd

March 25, 2025

Flow Learning Lab

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Recent podcasts where you’ll also find Mark and Ponch:

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