Trapital

When Larry started Primary Wave in 2006, the company had roughly $60 million to invest. Twenty years later, Primary Wave raised a record $2.2 billion fund dedicated. It has partnered with the estates and catalogs of Whitney Houston, Prince, Bob Marley, James Brown, Luther Vandross, and more.
Larry and I talked about how Primary Wave evaluates music rights, recent acquisitions, the rise of capital in the space, the criticism that the firm has given, and more.

This conversation was recorded live at Trapital Summit 2026 in Los Angeles.

Listen here: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube | Overcast

Links mentioned:

Primary Wave Music

Primary Wave’s acquisition of Kobalt

Primary Wave’s $2.2 billion Music IP Fund IV

Trapital Summit 2026

Why Investors Are Looking Beyond Iconic Music Catalogs — Trapital’s conversation with Flexpoint Ford’s Mike Morris

Presented by Chartmetric

The third annual Trapital Summit is officially in the books.

We are joined by MIdiA Research's Tati Cirisano to look back on what happened in Los Angeles, from the standout moments on stage to the conversations that continued throughout the room.

We break down the ideas that sparked the most discussion, the biggest takeaways from the day, and what the Summit revealed about where music, media, entertainment, and finance are headed next.

We also reflect on how the event has grown over the past three years and preview the Summit conversations coming soon to the podcast.

CHAPTERS

01:51 Entertainment Convergence
04:15 Platforms vs. Artists
06:14 Suno’s Major Label Deals
08:56 Netflix and Music
14:40 Finance vs. Artist Development
16:53 Merch and Fandom
18:19 KevOnStage’s Business Model

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Symphonic: Distribute your music to one of the largest networks in the industry. Symphonic delivers your music to over 200 digital service providers ensuring that you’re monetizing every stream and use of your music on Spotify, TikTok, YouTube, and more

TRAPITAL

Where technology shapes culture. New episodes and memos every week. Sign up here for free.

In our final bold prediction before Trapital Summit, Guillaume de Chalendar, Executive Vice President and Head of Media and Entertainment Banking at Banc of California, joins us to discuss the growing wave of capital entering the music industry.

Guillaume explains why artists and rights holders may borrow against their catalogs instead of selling them, along with the risks of overleveraging valuable music assets. We break down lender rights, foreclosure risk, capital stacks, rising loan-to-value ratios, and why choosing the right lender and advisors matters more than ever.

Join us at Trapital Summit on September 15:
https://www.trapital.com/summit/2026

CHAPTERS

02:22 Capital Influx
02:43 Catalog Loans
03:22 Foreclosure Risk
06:12 Banks vs. New Lenders
06:40 Sell, Borrow, or Stack?
08:23 Music ABS Growth
11:08Trapital Summit

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Chartmetric: Listen in for our Stat of the Week

Symphonic: Distribute your music to one of the largest networks in the industry. Symphonic delivers your music to over 200 digital service providers ensuring that you’re monetizing every stream and use of your music on Spotify, TikTok, YouTube, and more

TRAPITAL

Where technology shapes culture. New episodes and memos every week. Sign up here for free.

AI music’s legal landscape is getting more complicated. We break down three questions at the center of the debate: whether AI can learn from copyrighted work, how companies obtain training data, and whether AI-generated outputs compete with original music.

Then, Vydia co-president Jenna Gaudio and NVIDIA’s Shari Reich share bold predictions about context-aware listening and how AI could unlock the value of existing music catalogs.

CHAPTERS

02:52 Three Copyright Questions

08:12 Why AI Firms Still License

10:54 Trapital Summit

13:24 Jenna Gaudio’s Prediction

18:45 Context-Aware Listening

21:57 Rights and Infrastructure

23:44 Shari Reich’s Prediction

25:27 Unlocking Music Catalogs

27:12 AI as a Tool

30:49 Catalog Is the New Content

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TRAPITAL

Where technology shapes culture. New episodes and memos every week. Sign up here for free.

Dolly Parton’s most valuable asset wasn’t

her music, it was her theme park.

We kickoff the episode with an exploration

of Dollywood.

Then on our road to Trapital Summit, Shot Tower Capital’s Rob Law and Antwyne DeLinde joins us for bold prediction: Why AI could increase the value of human-made music, improve royalty collection, and strengthen catalog cash flows.

Musixmatch Co-President Marco Paglia also predicts that, within three years, every AI-generated song will be licensed before it is created, opening the door to personalized music and entirely new revenue streams.

The Trapital Summit is happening September 15 in Los Angeles. Get your ticket here:
https://www.trapital.com/summit/2026

CHAPTERS

03:33 Dolly Parton’s Legacy

05:54 The Artist Wealth Funnel

08:49 AI’s Upside for Music

11:49 Predicting Catalog Cash Flow

16:23 AI and Catalog Values

19:21 Licensing Before Release

22:42 Personalized Music

26:41 Musixmatch’s AI Framework

28:47 What Needs to Change

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Chartmetric: Listen in for our Stat of the Week.

TRAPITAL

Where technology shapes culture. New episodes and memos every week. Sign up here for free.

Could music become Netflix’s next big content category?

In this episode, we break down Warner Music Group CEO Robert Kyncl’s case for bringing music to Netflix, why it could give both Netflix and the music industry more leverage against YouTube, and how advertising could make the opportunity more compelling.

We also explore the challenges, from licensing economics and consumer behavior to whether Netflix actually needs a full music offering.

Then, on the road to Trapital Summit, Epidemic Sound’s VP, Strategic Music Partnerships, Jesper Staffas joins us for a bold prediction: traditional record labels and music companies will increasingly look like IP law firms with music divisions.

CHAPTERS

04:39 Why Music Wants Netflix

09:34 The Case for Netflix

10:18 Netflix’s Ad Opportunity

13:34 Why Netflix May Pass

16:16 The Consumer Behavior Problem

21:18 Should Netflix Test Music?

25:21 Bold Prediction: Music’s Legal Future

26:01 More Lawyers Than A&Rs?

27:30 Music Licensing and Brands

Get your tickets here - September 15 in LA: Trapital Summit Tickets

SPONSORS

Chartmetric: Listen in for our Stat of the Week

Symphonic: Distribute your music to one of the largest networks in the industry. Symphonic delivers your music to over 200 digital service providers ensuring that you’re monetizing every stream and use of your music on Spotify, TikTok, YouTube, and more

TRAPITAL

Where technology shapes culture. New episodes and memos every week. Sign up here for free.

The music business has changed dramatically over the past decade, especially in the independent sector.

We sit down with Flexpoint Ford's Managing Director, Mike Morris, to discuss why independent music has become such an attractive investment opportunity, how fragmentation creates value, and how investors weigh catalog ownership against infrastructure, services, and technology.

We also explore what makes a music investment durable in an increasingly competitive market.

CHAPTERS

02:26 Why Independent Music Is Winning

03:42 Infrastructure and Artist Catalogs

05:23 Diversified Portfolios

13:49 Music’s Biggest Opportunity

17:47 Are Legacy Catalogs Overpriced?

23:34 AI and Music Investing

27:57 The Weeknd's Catalog Deal

SPONSORS

Chartmetric: Listen in for our Stat of the Week

Symphonic: Distribute your music to one of the largest networks in the industry. Symphonic delivers your music to over 200 digital service providers ensuring that you’re monetizing every stream and use of your music on Spotify, TikTok, YouTube, and more

TRAPITAL

Where technology shapes culture. New episodes and memos every week. Sign up here for free.

Jay-Z's 2026 has been a victory lap of sorts. Anniversary shows, stadium runs, and enemies put on notice. He’s focused on the music, yet less public on the business moves. But maybe that’s by design.

For years, one of Jay Z’s goal was to attain more wealth and become richer. Mission accomplished, he’s the world’s richest musician. But ever since he got there, the climate has long shifted. For public figures, billionaire status is more nuanced and complex than ever before.

We're joined by ESPN’s Justin Tinsley to break it all down. We discuss why Jay went "all offense" this year, how the cultural conversation around wealth turned on him, his music, Roc Nation, the Super Bowl Halftime Show, and more.

After Justin’s segment, we have a bold prediction from Symphonic CEO Jorge Brea.

CHAPTERS

Bold Prediction: Symphonic’s Jorge Brea

Trapital Summit Tickets - Get your tickets here

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TRAPITAL

Where technology shapes culture. New episodes and memos every week. Sign up here for free.

Our third annual Trapital Summit is right around the corner, live September 15 at the Sunset Room Hollywood. We're kicking off a new segment called Bold Predictions, where you’ll hear from the executives from our sponsors who made this year’s summit possible.

Today we’re joined by Lucas Keller, president and founder of Milk & Honey as he explains why shrinking splits could turn songwriting into a vanity business. We’re also joined by Maurice Slade, head of music of SoundCloud, who predicts why AI will mint a new kind of creator the way that sampling once did.

CHAPTERS

04:13 Bold Predictions: A New Series

04:58 Lucas Keller: The Future for Songwriters

11:47 Why The AI Threat is Overstated

17:26 Maurice Slade: The Dawn of a New Creator

22:57 When Music Becomes Self Expression

Trapital Summit Tickets - Early bird pricing ends July 15

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TRAPITAL

Where technology shapes culture. New episodes and memos every week. Sign up here for free.

You can also revisit our original Trapital episode on Clive’s career Here.

CHAPTERS

Chartmetric: Listen in for our Stat of the Week

TRAPITAL

Where technology shapes culture. New episodes and memos every week. Sign up here for free.