On the Gist, the police chiefs are stepping down.

In the interview, Academy Award-winning documentarian Barbara Kopple is here to talk about her latest film, Desert One. Through new archival footage and the various perspectives of key players, the film reveals the true story behind the secret mission to free hostages captured during the 1979 Iranian revolution. She and Mike discuss how she approaches the stories she tells, the narrative problems she had to solve in this film, and how persistent she had to be to get Jimmy Carter on camera. Desert One is available to stream online and in select theaters.

In the spiel, Trump's taxpayer-funded legal defense.

Email us at [email protected]

Podcast production by Daniel Schroeder, Margaret Kelley, and Lori Galarreta.

Slate Plus members get bonus segments and ad-free podcast feeds. Sign up now.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices