Feelings inside and outside Ukraine are different. Outside, most people think Ukraine is doomed. Inside, most believe Ukraine will stand and never give up. I share the inside view, as does my guest today—a very active member of the Ukrainian parliament.

Host: Volodymyr Yermolenko, a Ukrainian philosopher, the chief editor of UkraineWorld, and the president of PEN Ukraine.

My guest today is Dmytro Natalukha, a member of the Ukrainian parliament, and the chairman of the economics affairs committee.

Explaining Ukraine is a podcast by UkraineWorld, a multilingual media outlet about Ukraine.

UkraineWorld is brought to you by Internews Ukraine, one of Ukraine's largest media NGOs.

You can support our work at https://www.patreon.com/c/ukraineworld. We really need your support now because our media is increasingly relying on crowdfunding.

You can also support our volunteer trips to the frontline areas, where we help both soldiers and civilians - bringing mostly cars for soldiers and books for civilians. You can support our trips at PayPal: [email protected]