Thanks for joining us for another episode of the unSeminary podcast. I think this will be a bit of a change of pace and so I’m excited to be here with Senior Pastor Dan Stanford from The Well Church in Wisconsin.

The Well started as a church plant with twelve people in a living room to getting their own building a year ago, and now they run two services and a lot of new things are happening. Dan is with us today to talk about comic book superheroes and what are they doing to our culture today, and how ordinary people can be heroes for God.

* The draw of the cape. // Because superhero movies have become so prevalent, one sociologist referred to us as a “comic book nation.” Marvel has just released its fifth million dollar movie, Black Panther passed Titanic for the third highest grossing movie nationally, and Infinity War has already set records for highest pre-sale tickets. The first superhero came out in 1938 so even though they have picked up steam now, superheroes have been around for a long time. In the era of the first superheroes, as a nation we were coming out of the Great Depression and beginning to face Nazi Germany, and so the idea of a man who was indestructible and could face anything was very appealing. We’re facing a strained and troubling political climate today, and that could be leading to the draw of superheroes in our society now.

* Perfection and transparency. // Some talk about the characters in superhero stories being either an idealized version of ourselves or otherwise that part of us that we fear the most. Dan believes that whenever as a culture we feel out of control, we look for control in our entertainment. We look for someone to follow as that moral superior and that is the draw of superheroes. As church leaders though, we shouldn’t think we need to appear invincible or infallible. Older pastors lived with the idea that they had to show this perfect side of themselves to everyone. But today younger pastors need to be more comfortable with transparency and struggle, which oftentimes gains us more respect from people. Christ is the only ideal example – the rest of us have weaknesses, and that’s ok. We need to be aware of our weaknesses, an allow God to use us in spite of them, rather than try to hide them.

* Encourage ordinary superheroes. // We tend to look toward the top 1% or 2% to save our world—the celebrities, the billionaires, the megachurch pastors. But God uses the 98% – those ordinary people who would be overlooked and who leaned on Him for help and strength in order to do great things. The disciples were ordinary men, but they had been with Jesus. We see the tremendous impact they had. It wasn’t because they were superheroes, it was because they leaned into Jesus and He used their ordinary-ness. Look for the ordinary heroes in your church: The older lady on a fixed income who puts money aside for a mission; the college student who works at a soup kitchen. We pray for God to change our circumstances when we should be praying for Him to change our perspective in order to see our small, ordinary acts as great things.

You can reach Dan or learn more about his book Losing the Cape: The Power of Ordinary in a World of Superheroes at www.danstanford.net. You can learn more about The Well Church at www.yourwellchurch.org.

Thank You for Tuning In!

There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest...

Thanks for joining us for another episode of the unSeminary podcast. I think this will be a bit of a change of pace and so I’m excited to be here with Senior Pastor Dan Stanford from The Well Church in Wisconsin.

The Well started as a church plant with twelve people in a living room to getting their own building a year ago, and now they run two services and a lot of new things are happening. Dan is with us today to talk about comic book superheroes and what are they doing to our culture today, and how ordinary people can be heroes for God.

* The draw of the cape. // Because superhero movies have become so prevalent, one sociologist referred to us as a “comic book nation.” Marvel has just released its fifth million dollar movie, Black Panther passed Titanic for the third highest grossing movie nationally, and Infinity War has already set records for highest pre-sale tickets. The first superhero came out in 1938 so even though they have picked up steam now, superheroes have been around for a long time. In the era of the first superheroes, as a nation we were coming out of the Great Depression and beginning to face Nazi Germany, and so the idea of a man who was indestructible and could face anything was very appealing. We’re facing a strained and troubling political climate today, and that could be leading to the draw of superheroes in our society now.

* Perfection and transparency. // Some talk about the characters in superhero stories being either an idealized version of ourselves or otherwise that part of us that we fear the most. Dan believes that whenever as a culture we feel out of control, we look for control in our entertainment. We look for someone to follow as that moral superior and that is the draw of superheroes. As church leaders though, we shouldn’t think we need to appear invincible or infallible. Older pastors lived with the idea that they had to show this perfect side of themselves to everyone. But today younger pastors need to be more comfortable with transparency and struggle, which oftentimes gains us more respect from people. Christ is the only ideal example – the rest of us have weaknesses, and that’s ok. We need to be aware of our weaknesses, an allow God to use us in spite of them, rather than try to hide them.

* Encourage ordinary superheroes. // We tend to look toward the top 1% or 2% to save our world—the celebrities, the billionaires, the megachurch pastors. But God uses the 98% – those ordinary people who would be overlooked and who leaned on Him for help and strength in order to do great things. The disciples were ordinary men, but they had been with Jesus. We see the tremendous impact they had. It wasn’t because they were superheroes, it was because they leaned into Jesus and He used their ordinary-ness. Look for the ordinary heroes in your church: The older lady on a fixed income who puts money aside for a mission; the college student who works at a soup kitchen. We pray for God to change our circumstances when we should be praying for Him to change our perspective in order to see our small, ordinary acts as great things.

You can reach Dan or learn more about his book Losing the Cape: The Power of Ordinary in a World of Superheroes at www.danstanford.net. You can learn more about The Well Church at www.yourwellchurch.org.

Thank You for Tuning In!

There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I’m grateful for that. If you enjoyed today’s show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest...

Welcome to our new podcast all about multisite! I’m chatting with a group of multisite ninjas and answering your questions about the ins and outs of launching new campuses. Our group is as follows:

Natalie Frisk is our family ministry expert. She is a key leader from The Meeting House. This church has 19 (!) locations and is doing all kinds of great stuff, including a killer kids’ & youth curriculum that they give away for free. Natalie’s a lot of fun and will have so many great insights around leading in a thriving multisite church.

Greg Curtis is our guest connections and assimilation expert. He leads at Eastside Christian Church, one of the fastest growing churches in the country, and literally, is the “go to” source for getting people to stick and stay in the church. (Eastside has assimilated something like 1,500 people in the last 18 months!) His coaching practice around assimilation is amazing.

Ben Stapley is our communications and service programming expert. Ben is one of the most helpful leaders I know. His day job is at Liquid Church in NJ, but he does so much to help other leaders with the “big show” part of church world.

And I, Rich, have been involved with 14 different campus launches over the years and enjoy helping churches that are thinking about multisite.

We are here to answer your questions about running a multisite church and are excited to be here today with our fourth episode.

Open Question: What are you looking forward to this summer?  

* Ben Stapley – The shore. Not the beach, but the shore. Family, and jumping back on my motorcycle after all the snow.

* Greg Curtis – I’ll experience my first sabbatical this summer, so I’m excited about that.

* Natalie Frisk – Our family is going to western Canada to visit family and then to eastern Canada to have a little vacation.

Q1: What do you think of a hybrid version of campus vs. central version of leadership?

It’s a tension to be managed and something which most leaders in multisite churches probably struggle with on some level. Tension can run really high in this area. Central leadership is better early on for fast launching of campuses, but strong campus leadership is needed as the campuses mature. In any case, it’s important to set the tone that this is not an “us versus them” mentality but a clear “we’re in this together” mindset. In a multisite context, especially as more campuses are added, there must be clarity about what the core values of the ministry are, and what aspects are open to being adapted to a local context, however both campus and central staff should be involved in the process.

The central staff can give clarity of strategy and systems to help things work well in a local context. Centrally they build and develop that supportive framework, and provide vision and direction. Then the campus staff can step in and be empowered to carry that baton, as they serve their local community.

Greg explains the central-campus leader relationship as being like a grandparent: you have all of the joys of coming alongside and supporting without the direct responsibility. You can help make the campus succeed by coaching the campus pastor or giving them advice, but the responsibility of assimilation, for example, lies with the campus staff. Create a close relationship between the central and campus leaders so that you can have someone to turn to for advice and support, or else just a friend to spend time with.

Be aware and sensitive to location and culture differences between campuses, especially if you have campuses in different states or countries. Differences between cultures, even if they’re as simple as the types of weather at different times of year that affect the lifestyle in that area, can mean changes in how things are done from one campus to another and need to be acknowledged and understo...

Welcome to our new podcast all about multisite! I’m chatting with a group of multisite ninjas and answering your questions about the ins and outs of launching new campuses. Our group is as follows:

Natalie Frisk is our family ministry expert. She is a key leader from The Meeting House. This church has 19 (!) locations and is doing all kinds of great stuff, including a killer kids’ & youth curriculum that they give away for free. Natalie’s a lot of fun and will have so many great insights around leading in a thriving multisite church.

Greg Curtis is our guest connections and assimilation expert. He leads at Eastside Christian Church, one of the fastest growing churches in the country, and literally, is the “go to” source for getting people to stick and stay in the church. (Eastside has assimilated something like 1,500 people in the last 18 months!) His coaching practice around assimilation is amazing.

Ben Stapley is our communications and service programming expert. Ben is one of the most helpful leaders I know. His day job is at Liquid Church in NJ, but he does so much to help other leaders with the “big show” part of church world.

And I, Rich, have been involved with 14 different campus launches over the years and enjoy helping churches that are thinking about multisite.

We are here to answer your questions about running a multisite church and are excited to be here today with our fourth episode.

Open Question: What are you looking forward to this summer?  

* Ben Stapley – The shore. Not the beach, but the shore. Family, and jumping back on my motorcycle after all the snow.

* Greg Curtis – I’ll experience my first sabbatical this summer, so I’m excited about that.

* Natalie Frisk – Our family is going to western Canada to visit family and then to eastern Canada to have a little vacation.

Q1: What do you think of a hybrid version of campus vs. central version of leadership?

It’s a tension to be managed and something which most leaders in multisite churches probably struggle with on some level. Tension can run really high in this area. Central leadership is better early on for fast launching of campuses, but strong campus leadership is needed as the campuses mature. In any case, it’s important to set the tone that this is not an “us versus them” mentality but a clear “we’re in this together” mindset. In a multisite context, especially as more campuses are added, there must be clarity about what the core values of the ministry are, and what aspects are open to being adapted to a local context, however both campus and central staff should be involved in the process.

The central staff can give clarity of strategy and systems to help things work well in a local context. Centrally they build and develop that supportive framework, and provide vision and direction. Then the campus staff can step in and be empowered to carry that baton, as they serve their local community.

Greg explains the central-campus leader relationship as being like a grandparent: you have all of the joys of coming alongside and supporting without the direct responsibility. You can help make the campus succeed by coaching the campus pastor or giving them advice, but the responsibility of assimilation, for example, lies with the campus staff. Create a close relationship between the central and campus leaders so that you can have someone to turn to for advice and support, or else just a friend to spend time with.

Be aware and sensitive to location and culture differences between campuses, especially if you have campuses in different states or countries. Differences between cultures, even if they’re as simple as the types of weather at different times of year that affect the lifestyle in that area, can mean changes in how things are done from one campus to another and need to be acknowledged and understo...

Welcome back once again to another exciting episode of the unSeminary podcast. I’m so happy to have Creative Coach and Consultant Stephen Brewster with us today.

With missionary parents, Stephen has lived all over the world and then grew up to go to six different colleges, so he’s experienced a lot of transitions. During his senior year, he left college and moved to Nashville, Tennessee to chase his music dreams. God opened doors for him in the music industry, but Stephen always had a love for the local church and so God eventually led him into creative leadership within the church.

Stephen is here today to talk with us about transitions. People are always either going into a transition, in the middle of a transition, or coming out of a transition. How should we as leaders be thinking about helping others in our organizations during transition times?

* Transitions are tough. // In the church world, we can miss the weight of what a transition really means for people. Unlike the secular workplace, transitions into and out of ministry mean uprooting individuals and families from their spiritual “home” and hub. There is loss that needs to be processed as individuals move on from a church, a pastor, a small group, or the people they’ve served with. A person’s local community can suddenly change dramatically and they can feel cut-off from relationships at a previous church. For these reasons it’s important that we on-board and off-board people well.

* Prepare new hires for success. // Hiring and firing is the most expensive thing we can do – if we don’t hire well, we’re going to end up hiring again. Take your time when it comes to hiring the right people. Think about character, competency and chemistry. Is this new person going to fit? Do they match who we are? Do they fit the values? Can they adapt to the values if they don’t? Once you hire someone, make sure you on-board well. A lot of times people are thrown into work with no preparation. What are the resources they need to read and listen to and watch before day one? Once they reach day one, have you given them a worksheet that has all of their passwords and expectations? Plan out their first week hour by hour and have them meet with HR, individuals on their team, and so on to get to know everyone. Make the process fun rather than all busy work. What 90-day goals can they be working toward to have a clear understanding of what they should be aiming for? Think about your culture – how do you make that person feel important in that culture? Set them up to thrive in and to understand that culture.

* Don’t overlook the importance of off-boarding well. // Unfortunately, we also have to let people go sometimes. When you’re letting someone go, most of the time they’re going to be surprised because if they were self-aware they would have probably fixed the problem. Even though you may have written them up before and have a paper trail, the day you let them go they probably won’t understand why. As a leader, you have to think through who this person is connected to and how it will affect the rest of the organization, as well as what your communication plan is to the organization. Who needs to know what and when? Take into consideration that it’s usually not your story to tell, it’s their story to tell. Be fully truthful but full of love in the conversations around the dismissal and never meet with them alone to remove any potential “he said/she said” conversations. It’s important to document everything in these situations, but also give them everything you can financially to help them in this transition. If possible extend counseling sessions post-employment to help them process what happened. In healthy cultures with secure leaders, you care more about the people than anything else, so you’re going to lead them through that transition well.

Welcome back once again to another exciting episode of the unSeminary podcast. I’m so happy to have Creative Coach and Consultant Stephen Brewster with us today.

With missionary parents, Stephen has lived all over the world and then grew up to go to six different colleges, so he’s experienced a lot of transitions. During his senior year, he left college and moved to Nashville, Tennessee to chase his music dreams. God opened doors for him in the music industry, but Stephen always had a love for the local church and so God eventually led him into creative leadership within the church.

Stephen is here today to talk with us about transitions. People are always either going into a transition, in the middle of a transition, or coming out of a transition. How should we as leaders be thinking about helping others in our organizations during transition times?

* Transitions are tough. // In the church world, we can miss the weight of what a transition really means for people. Unlike the secular workplace, transitions into and out of ministry mean uprooting individuals and families from their spiritual “home” and hub. There is loss that needs to be processed as individuals move on from a church, a pastor, a small group, or the people they’ve served with. A person’s local community can suddenly change dramatically and they can feel cut-off from relationships at a previous church. For these reasons it’s important that we on-board and off-board people well.

* Prepare new hires for success. // Hiring and firing is the most expensive thing we can do – if we don’t hire well, we’re going to end up hiring again. Take your time when it comes to hiring the right people. Think about character, competency and chemistry. Is this new person going to fit? Do they match who we are? Do they fit the values? Can they adapt to the values if they don’t? Once you hire someone, make sure you on-board well. A lot of times people are thrown into work with no preparation. What are the resources they need to read and listen to and watch before day one? Once they reach day one, have you given them a worksheet that has all of their passwords and expectations? Plan out their first week hour by hour and have them meet with HR, individuals on their team, and so on to get to know everyone. Make the process fun rather than all busy work. What 90-day goals can they be working toward to have a clear understanding of what they should be aiming for? Think about your culture – how do you make that person feel important in that culture? Set them up to thrive in and to understand that culture.

* Don’t overlook the importance of off-boarding well. // Unfortunately, we also have to let people go sometimes. When you’re letting someone go, most of the time they’re going to be surprised because if they were self-aware they would have probably fixed the problem. Even though you may have written them up before and have a paper trail, the day you let them go they probably won’t understand why. As a leader, you have to think through who this person is connected to and how it will affect the rest of the organization, as well as what your communication plan is to the organization. Who needs to know what and when? Take into consideration that it’s usually not your story to tell, it’s their story to tell. Be fully truthful but full of love in the conversations around the dismissal and never meet with them alone to remove any potential “he said/she said” conversations. It’s important to document everything in these situations, but also give them everything you can financially to help them in this transition. If possible extend counseling sessions post-employment to help them process what happened. In healthy cultures with secure leaders, you care more about the people than anything else, so you’re going to lead them through that transition well.

Is your church doing regular Facebook Live broadcasts? Why or why not? The popularity of this tool continues to grow and flourish, and it is a powerful communication method that your church should be taking advantage of. While the service has been around for almost three years, which is comparative to something like 30 “social media years”, there are still a lot of churches that aren’t utilizing this tool to reach people.

That being the case, the goal of this article is to convince you to start doing or do more Facebook Live videos. You’ve been warned. 😉

Facebook is still the default social media network for many people in our communities. In fact, in most communities, 68% of adults are accessing the platform regularly. [ref] Stop and think about that. If two-thirds of the people in your town participated in the same thing on a regular basis, wouldn’t you want to know more about it? Even further, wouldn’t you want to figure out how to best use that trend to see people connected to your church and the message of Jesus? Within Facebook, live videos continue to be a thriving and growing feature of the platform. In fact, 2 billion people have watched Facebook Live broadcasts. [ref] And the number keeps growing every day!

4 Ingredients of Great Facebook Live Videos for Your Church

Here are the four basic elements that your Facebook Live video broadcasts need to have to help you leverage this channel to reach people.

A “Hook” // You need to start with an interesting premise or quick hit idea at the beginning of the video that draws people in to watch more. Like the title of a great news article, a good hook’s job is to grab and hold people’s attention.

Educate or Entertain? // Your video needs to either entertain people by making them laugh or it needs to educate them by revealing something. If you use Facebook Live to just “advertise” what’s coming up at your church your audience will tune out. How can you provide value to them? Use one of these approaches to do so.

Show, Don’t Tell // This is a visual medium so leverage it. Broadcast from a visually interesting location. Show a prop on camera that will get people’s attention. Avoid the temptation to just be a “talking head” on the video.

Call to Action // What are you asking people to “do” because of the video? What is their next step after watching the video? Don’t let people just sit back and passively consume the content but entice them to take a next step!

Facebook is Still Pushing Live Video

It’s no secret that Facebook continues to encourage people to produce, view, and engage with live videos. In a very real way it seems like Facebook is transforming itself into a video-driven platform. We have all noticed that our “organic” posts on Facebook being viewed less and less. However, the platform continues to push the video content form in front of our audiences. Some churches have reported as much as 200 times more views on a Facebook Live video over a typical status update post.

“Live is like having a TV camera in your pocket. Anyone with a phone now has the power to broadcast to anyone in the world,” CEO Mark Zuckerberg has said. “This is a big shift in how we communicate, and it’s going to create new opportunities for people to come together.” [ref]

People Love Behind-the-Scenes Videos

87% of audiences would prefer to watch online videos if it included more behind-the-scenes content than a standard TV broadcast. [

Is your church doing regular Facebook Live broadcasts? Why or why not? The popularity of this tool continues to grow and flourish, and it is a powerful communication method that your church should be taking advantage of. While the service has been around for almost three years, which is comparative to something like 30 “social media years”, there are still a lot of churches that aren’t utilizing this tool to reach people.

That being the case, the goal of this article is to convince you to start doing or do more Facebook Live videos. You’ve been warned.

Thanks for joining in for another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today I have Chris Hankins with me, the Lead Pastor of The Point Church in Raleigh, North Carolina.

The Point Church has about 17 services across 9 locations on Sundays. With a total attendance of between 1500-2000 people, that means an average of under 100 adults in each service, so it has a small feel even in a large church. They planted their locations with the idea of smaller services to multiply quickly, be more relational, and reach more people in the Triangle region, which is part of the church’s vision. Chris is here to talk about that rapid multiplication and how to keep the sites aligned as they grow.

* Vision holds church locations together. // The Point Church orients everything around their vision of seeing 30 churches planted in the Triangle by 2025 so that every man, woman, and child has the chance to experience the gospel in their generation. Chris explains that they’ve had that same vision before they held their first service, and it’s that vision that still keeps them aligned and focused now. Many churches branch out into multisite because they’ve run out of room in their current locations, but The Point hadn’t yet filled up their current meeting place when they launched their second campus 18 months after starting the church. Finding the vision that drives your church will hold all of the campuses together and drive them further as they reach out to the community.

* Put the church closer to where people live. // For every mile that a person lives away from their campus, they are significantly less engaged. What The Point Church has found is when they bring the church closer to one of these communities where their people are driving from, engagement goes up. Suddenly there is increased engaged in worship, in groups, and in serving. Planting a church location closer to the people who are attending creates a much tighter knit community because the same people live, shop, learn and work in this area. People are much more likely to invite their neighbors, and their kids bring friends to church with them more often because they go to school together. So The Point Church has found this approach of launching smaller locations more often to be much more effective at transforming lives.

* Leadership development is key when launching so many locations. // Having so many locations, with a goal of increasing to 30 sites, takes a lot of leadership, which can be a big obstacle to many churches. In the beginning, Chris was doing everything himself, but they’ve since raised up leaders to handle the ministry with 2 Timothy 2:2 as a driving verse: “And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others.” The Point Church has a five-step leadership model that can work in any context, from Chris apprenticing someone to be a lead pastor, to apprenticing someone to be a nursery volunteer. The five step leadership model is simply: I do, you watch; I do, you help; you do, I help; you do, I watch; you do, someone else watches. The Point Church also works with leadership maxims such as: every leader has an apprentice, someone you’re training to do what you do; every leader has a huddle, with people who are doing what you are doing on the same level where you’re sharing struggles, best practice, and getting encouragement; and every leader has a coach, someone who’s investing in them. Every leader has those three things, which helps move the church forward as they continually develop new leaders.

* Launch team size is the greatest predictor of the success of the church. // What is that right size of a launch team? If you have a thousand people on a launch team, then yes, that church will do amazing things in that community. But you may never get there if you’re waiting for a thousand people.

Thanks for joining in for another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today I have Chris Hankins with me, the Lead Pastor of The Point Church in Raleigh, North Carolina.

The Point Church has about 17 services across 9 locations on Sundays. With a total attendance of between 1500-2000 people, that means an average of under 100 adults in each service, so it has a small feel even in a large church. They planted their locations with the idea of smaller services to multiply quickly, be more relational, and reach more people in the Triangle region, which is part of the church’s vision. Chris is here to talk about that rapid multiplication and how to keep the sites aligned as they grow.

* Vision holds church locations together. // The Point Church orients everything around their vision of seeing 30 churches planted in the Triangle by 2025 so that every man, woman, and child has the chance to experience the gospel in their generation. Chris explains that they’ve had that same vision before they held their first service, and it’s that vision that still keeps them aligned and focused now. Many churches branch out into multisite because they’ve run out of room in their current locations, but The Point hadn’t yet filled up their current meeting place when they launched their second campus 18 months after starting the church. Finding the vision that drives your church will hold all of the campuses together and drive them further as they reach out to the community.

* Put the church closer to where people live. // For every mile that a person lives away from their campus, they are significantly less engaged. What The Point Church has found is when they bring the church closer to one of these communities where their people are driving from, engagement goes up. Suddenly there is increased engaged in worship, in groups, and in serving. Planting a church location closer to the people who are attending creates a much tighter knit community because the same people live, shop, learn and work in this area. People are much more likely to invite their neighbors, and their kids bring friends to church with them more often because they go to school together. So The Point Church has found this approach of launching smaller locations more often to be much more effective at transforming lives.

* Leadership development is key when launching so many locations. // Having so many locations, with a goal of increasing to 30 sites, takes a lot of leadership, which can be a big obstacle to many churches. In the beginning, Chris was doing everything himself, but they’ve since raised up leaders to handle the ministry with 2 Timothy 2:2 as a driving verse: “And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others.” The Point Church has a five-step leadership model that can work in any context, from Chris apprenticing someone to be a lead pastor, to apprenticing someone to be a nursery volunteer. The five step leadership model is simply: I do, you watch; I do, you help; you do, I help; you do, I watch; you do, someone else watches. The Point Church also works with leadership maxims such as: every leader has an apprentice, someone you’re training to do what you do; every leader has a huddle, with people who are doing what you are doing on the same level where you’re sharing struggles, best practice, and getting encouragement; and every leader has a coach, someone who’s investing in them. Every leader has those three things, which helps move the church forward as they continually develop new leaders.

* Launch team size is the greatest predictor of the success of the church. // What is that right size of a launch team? If you have a thousand people on a launch team, then yes, that church will do amazing things in that community. But you may never get there if you’re waiting for a thousand people.